Gabby Reece: Lessons on Resilience, Reinvention, and Redefining Success | E142
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When Elle named you one of the five most beautiful women in the world, when that came out, what were you thinking? I wasn't. For me, again... Come on, you're being humble. No, I'm not. I'm not. Did you say to yourself, "Holy sh*t, that's pretty cool"? I don't know what's cool about it. I have to be honest. Again, you don't earn it. I was on the right shoot at the right time. You know, these magazines, it's all these titles, top ten, top five. Like, I never was fooled by that. I was like, "This is going to be very good for my work, and it's going to create more opportunity."

But it is what it is. And I think my sports also kept me really grounded. And I understood the difference between good fortune and hard work. And they're very different. And so in fashion, that was a lot of good fortune and that was getting picked. Welcome to In Search of Excellence, where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers, and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life.

My name is Randall Kaplan. I'm a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and the host of In Search of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives. My guest today is Gabby Reese. Gabby is a former professional volleyball player who's gone on to have an incredible career as a sports announcer, fitness advocate, serial entrepreneur, public speaker, model, actress, New York Times bestselling author, television host, and podcast host.

She's had her own show on MTV, was the first female to design a shoe for Nike, is a former spokesperson for both Nike and Coppertone, has been a sports commentator for MTV and CBS, and in 1997 was voted one of the 20 most influential women in sports.

She's a co-founder of the fitness training program XPT and is also a co-founder of Laird Superfood, a line of coffee supplements which she started with her husband, Laird Hamilton, and is also the host of The Gabby Reese Show, a podcast about health, fitness, relationships, parenting, and business.

Gabby, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. Thanks for having me. I'm in search of excellence still. All right. Well, let's get into it. I want to start with your parents. You were born in La Jolla, California, and we're going to start with your mom. And then we're going to talk about your dad and what happened when you were five years old. Your mom, Terry, was a dolphin trainer in the circus. And at one point, she was in Mexico and you got whooping cough.

Can you tell us about what happened after that and how your life changed from that moment on? Well, so I know it sounds kind of strange, but she was training dolphins in Mexico City. In a tank? Yeah, in a tank. And they'd have circus, you know, like they'd have the clowns that went off the high dive. Yeah.

you know, all kinds of different acts. And my mom was a single parent. My parents were not together. And I got pretty sick there. I got whooping cough. And my mom grew up in Long Island, New York. And so childhood friends, neighborhood friends, you know, like people would have then, they ended up taking care of me from age two to seven in Long Island. My mom was quite young. And I think if I

put myself in her shoes, she was sort of doing the best, what she thought was definitely what was best for me. And I called them my aunt and uncle Joe. They were a high school boyfriend and girlfriend and they were married. He had just come back from Vietnam. Either they chose to not have children or could not have children. So they took me on until I was seven and my mom remarried. And then I ended up moving down to the Virgin Islands, to the Caribbean. At

At two and a half, you don't really know what's happening, right? I mean, I remember my parents got divorced. I was two and a half. I barely remember it. But at some point, you realize that you're not with your parents. When did you think about that? And did it affect you? Did you say, why isn't my mom around? I think I did know. I also think being in a really different location, going from one location to another made a very significant break.

And my aunt Norette and uncle Joe, the joke was when I was seven, my aunt Norette was five feet tall. I was five feet tall at seven. And we were not a match in that way, but they loved me so deeply. So in one way, I was really cared for and really loved. And so that made a lot of that easier, but it was always sort of...

like, how come I don't live with my family? But they became my family. And it was always interesting in conversation. But the thing I really appreciated is my, especially my aunt Naret, she was always very direct. She never danced around it. So it was never made awkward or weird that in fact, that's what was happening. So you're living in Long Island, you're five years old. And one night, your aunt Naret gets a phone call. You can sort of hear on the phone and you know from her voice, something's wrong. Can you tell us what happened?

What your reaction was and how that influenced your life. I was sitting in my room It was a really tiny little house really tiny and I remember you know hard lines the phone rang and my aunt or it went to the where the phone is and I could hear in her voice that whatever what she was being told was not good news and so she came in my room and she had told me that my father had died in a plane crash and

Listen, I think that's hard, but I also say that because it was not the everyday, he did not not come home from work. It was a different type of experience or loss because I wasn't around him every day. And so it's not to minimize it, but it's just to say that it was a little bit more unusual and unusual.

and something that I've thought a lot about over the years. - So at age seven, your mom remarried and you moved to Puerto Rico because the person she married was in Puerto Rico. And after that, you moved to St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands, which is sort of where you grew up. Can you tell us about that experience and how that impacted your life going forward? - Yeah, I mean, listen, I worry about that myself as a parent, thinking, oh, is this the right, the best move?

My stepfather, who I still know to this day, my parents, they broke up by the time I was 12 or 13. But I still know him 40-something years later. He was very loving and kind. He was not an authoritative figure. There was not a ton of structure. And it was the 70s, and people were having fun, and they were in the Caribbean. So there was a loosey-goosiness to the way that I grew up.

which only kind of reinforced a couple things in my natural personality, which is pretty disciplined, kind of linear, looking for stability, looking for order. I would create order in my environments even when I was very, very young. And the thing that I'm really grateful for, though, is growing up on an island and learning

the values of being on an island which are so different than the mainland United States because I wasn't trained that I had to be somebody.

Nobody was striving in that way, at least around me so much. They were living life and enjoying life. And indirectly, I got to understand my father's culture because my father's from Trinidad. So I understood that whole side of my family so much better because I grew up in a really similar culture. And quite frankly, later, I think the thing that bonds my husband and I, Laird, is we grew up on islands. So...

A lot of times when we have a major loss, we don't really recognize the impact of our loss until later in life. And you didn't really recognize it either. You said you were numb from it. And in school, you felt very alone. And you acted out against your mom. Yeah. So can you tell us about that? And then what's your advice to all the parents out there listening when their kids are acting out? What's the best way to talk to your kids about that?

I think when a parent dies, they get off the hook. So my mom was the person who took the hit for everything. And also, I do think we have a different scale or standard we hold our moms to. Like your mom's not supposed to not be there. Your mom's not supposed to leave. So I was angry. And I probably punished her pretty good for that. And also, it's not like when she came back, she was the most dialed in, organized person. She was...

That's not let's say her her those are her strong suits. So I was really frustrated by always feeling like You know, what's the plan and what are we gonna do? And you know, we missed several air You know flights like my mom was a little bit scattered that way and as far as other parents you know one thing I've learned is

We do the best that we can. And if I look at it now, I'm so grateful for all the ways that my mother was because it really helped me establish a lot of traits that have supported me in my life. Some things I've had to work through and offload that I don't need anymore, you know, like hypervigilance or things like that.

But other things of being organized and having three plans in place and sort of doing things on my own. I moved out at 17. Really was also a reaction to that. For me personally, what I say my philosophy as a parent is...

I'll make the mistakes I can apologize for. So, you know, the joke is I, Byron Katie said once, I have three kids and they have three different mothers. You know, this having five kids, right? Every kid has a different story about who you are as a parent. And so all I try to do, or all I invite parents to do is, you know, say sorry when you know you blew it. Don't try to, you know, shuck or jive, move out of it. Just be like, I blew that.

Because that's I think really all I wanted my mom to say was like, "Hey, I did the best I could and I'm sorry." But for her, she wasn't taught that it was okay to make mistakes.

So she spent the whole time trying to justify or whatever. So whatever mistakes I'm making as a parent, they're ones I'm going to be willing in 20 years time if a kid comes back and goes, you know, you were, it was hard because of your discipline and your thing. Whatever I'm going to have to apologize for are those things I'm going to be comfortable with. And that's how I view that. And again, as far as my mother goes,

That notion of if you were them, that's how you would have acted. You know, as an adult, I've really learned that idea, you know, when someone says,

Well, if you were them, if you had all their variables, all the ways that they were raised and what they dealt with and who they are, you might have done exactly the same thing. And that has really been helpful. As you were younger, this eight to 10 year old phase, you were acting out against your mom and you said yourself someday, you said yourself at the time, I need to make a change. So at that

At 10 years old, how do you even have the thought process to do that? And what's your advice to people listening today who are older? I mean, I'm 55. Yeah, I'm right there. You're nearby. But what if you're 20 years old, 30 years old, and you're living this life? How do you actually tell yourself, I need to change? Actually do it. You know, each of us are given our own special life and path.

And everyone will have their reasons that it's not fair. You had your own reasons. And it isn't fair. And by the way, there's people who suffer much more than it can always be worse. And what I would always invite someone to do is to look at their life, their special life, their unique personality and the ways that they can contribute and not have their life be a reaction to what they didn't get.

or how somebody wronged them, but to become the creation and the expression of what they hope and desire. And I used to say that my motivation was fear-based. It was I had to survive. And as I've gotten older, it's the inspiration of the gift that is the opportunity, right? Instead of doing things and working really hard at things because I have to pull it and I have to make it,

I just go, wow, you're so fortunate that you get these choices or you get to do it. So I would tell a younger person, you may not even be where you want to be right now, especially when you're living in a house that you're kind of not in charge, but to not be the victim of that story and to sort of dream about the things and the places and the ways that you would like to create your adult life. And then what does that look like? And then how would you do that?

And just keep those ideas rolling in your head and keep moving in that direction. And then if you're older, you have to have a strategy in place. You can't just wish it or dream it. You have to have a strategy and take small steps towards that and keep reevaluating as you go, like every month or every six months or every year in your businesses. I'm sure you do the one, three and five years and go, am I doing the right things? Do I need to add things? Do I need to take away certain behaviors that are keeping me from those things I say that I want?

and keep doing that. And it's pretty amazing what we can do. And a lack of forgiveness

is really hard on us and it really holds us back. And so if there's a place and a time that we're able to forgive whoever the people that we feel have hurt us, that's really a helpful tool. - So many of us are a little unusual in ways as we're growing up. You had something physical about you that was very unusual. The average 12 year old is four and a half feet tall. You are six feet tall. And at 12 years old, you're unusual looking.

People would look at you and they would talk about you. Tell us what that was like when everyone, I mean, someone at some point thought you were a substitute teacher. Yeah. And, and you know, what did, what did that have on your psyche? And then what's your advice?

to all the parents out there or people growing up who have something a little bit about them that's physically different? Well, you know, listen, growing up, I think I realized really quickly, and this is a very practical side of my personality, you're not going to fit in in that stereotypical way. And all you yearn to do when you're a teenager, right, is to be like everyone else and fit in. And somewhere in there, I realized like, that's not going to happen just based on my physical size. So there was this kind of

acceptance of okay i'm different and sometimes it's really uncomfortable and i get you know singled out with either names or thinking i was a substitute teacher like in seventh or eighth grade what were the names that people you know like jolly green giants and you know daddy long legs and you know whatever the million things are and as a and as a female right the idea of of

of being less or not powerful or fitting in or meek or whatever, taking up space. That kind of all was out the window. And I will give my mom a lot of credit here. My mother was about six, probably six, two, six, two and a half at her height of her, at her height. And she was pretty comfortable with it, kind of oblivious almost.

And so she was in that way a good example. But what I will say is then we spend our entire adult life trying to stand out. And so when we're young, even though it's painful, it is your gift. Your curse is your gift for all of us. And if we could just kind of ride that out, it doesn't mean you don't have those days. And also maybe sometimes go, huh, well, in what ways...

is this going to support my story in this, this difference about me? And I think the sooner we can get in touch with that and know too, that once you're out of high school, it's going to be great that you're different. A lot of people will have to work so hard to be different, to stand out. And so I would just remind people to, um,

It's sort of like not your problem. It's their problem. If people are responding to your difference, it's not about you. It's them. Beautiful people look beautiful when they're younger. And you're, I mean, they just continue. I really don't know a beautiful child who turned out to be ugly.

At some point, maybe we all age and we don't look as good, but you're beautiful. And Elle magazine named you at one point one of the five most beautiful women in the world. So at 12 years old, were you looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, okay, I mean, maybe people think I'm unusual, but I'm actually pretty good looking and I need that to feel good about myself?

No, I never really. You know, that's one thing I'll say that I never really bit the hook, I call it. My mother was an incredibly beautiful woman. And I thought to myself, oh, that doesn't solve all the problems, the world's problems. That doesn't make you love somebody because they're pretty or handsome.

And so for me, and also I was, you know, kind of more strange, tall, you know, not a sort of girl next door, pretty. So I never, that wasn't, that wasn't it for me. I never, for me, it was really about the relationships. And I fancy myself like smart. I go through this with my youngest daughter. She's quite a beautiful girl. And I know I can tell that she wants to be taken serious for being a smart person.

And I remember feeling that so much when I was younger. Like, yeah, it's cool, but I'm not just pretty or athletic. I have ideas. And so I think I was really lucky that way. And growing up in St. Thomas was lucky too because pretty wasn't such a big deal. Right. I mean, I know your daughter. She's friends with my son. Yeah. She is a beautiful woman as well. Young woman. Yeah.

Do you talk to her about her beauty and how that is a blessing and a curse at the same time? What I try to share with her is, listen, people will take from you, well, first of all, what are you representing?

And what are you spending your time with? What are you cultivating within yourself? And I think when you're a younger woman, I joke and say it's like getting a new car. When you become a young woman, all of a sudden, people start looking at you and things start happening. And you're learning to drive the car. And a lot of times with younger women, they're going to show you everything that the car, like look at the car. And then as you get older, you start to go, well, there's a time and a place.

And I don't need everyone to think I'm pretty or whatever that means. So all I do is, you know, this having kids, your best being a good example, and then kind of sharing ideas and reminding them that we really can't control how people, what in us they respond to. As much as we would like them to know, like, oh, I have a kind heart or I, you know, I want

I want to have a good conversation. It doesn't really matter. They're going to lock into you in the ways that have to do with them. And so with my youngest daughter, I just try to be a good example and also say, we don't really have anything to do with our physical appearance. So the things that we can really work on and do, those are the things that are interesting about us. Not like, okay, you're a pretty girl. There's millions of those. Millions. And

As you get older, if your currency is decreasing, not great currency,

My mom told me at a young age that beauty is only skin deep. Yeah. And I think that's true. And again, it's so much more important what's inside us than how we physically look. Because you can be a beautiful man or woman and you could be the biggest asshole in the world and be absolutely miserable. Or insecure and scared. And you don't even think. So sort of you just go, hey, I give it to the gods. That's not the stuff I control. I'll take care of my health.

but I'm not going to, um, I'm not coming to the table with this, some value I'm bringing to the table. I just look at it like, you know, Hey, you're fortunate if you move through life and people, you know, in certain ways make it easier, but then really do the work to develop yourself. Cause a lot of times when people are, you know, handsome or beautiful or attractive, they underdeveloped themselves. And then, you know, they hit 35, 40 and it's like, Oh, well,

Okay. Well, it's very interesting. I mean, we live in LA. A lot of models move here to make it as a model or an actor. And throughout my time in LA, I've met many of them and I'm sure you know many of them as well. There are many of them, most that I've met, and I don't know if this is a representative sample or not, but

highly, highly insecure. And for all the outside people looking, oh, she has an incredible life. It's easy for her. It's not so good inside. Yeah. Well, because we can't fool ourselves. And so if we're not doing some kind of work

And when I say that, I mean like work. That's what I loved about sports. It's like you had to earn it. And so we all know, am I earning it? Am I learning new ideas? Am I learning skills? And am I helping my neighbor? Like all these things are the things that make us feel good about ourselves and love ourselves. Not, hey, I'm good at a sport. I jump really high. I score lots of points or I'm pretty.

Those things are a bonus, but that isn't the thing that makes us feel proud of ourselves and respect ourselves. At 15 years old, you moved back to the U.S., to St. Petersburg. When you were 15, you're 6'3 at this point, you played basketball and you played a little volleyball. Tell us in eighth grade who you met and how that whole thing got going.

Sorry, tell us in your junior year in high school. Tell us how that got going. So my junior year was really pivotal. I did not want to move. You can imagine I had a boyfriend and all my friends. I was going into my junior year of high school. I was not happy. And I went to a Christian school. St. Keswick. Yeah, exactly. Keswick. And so I went to the school. And again, credit to my mother.

She knew I was spinning tire in the Caribbean and I needed a change and she pulled me out of there. And so I ended up going to this school and having playing sports because I was six three. It was a tiny school there. Yeah, great. Even if you're not good, you're going to play because you're a big body.

And I had a basketball coach in particular who was really supportive of me and taught me how to play basketball and used to encourage me to keep peace at home with my mom. Could you play? I mean, a lot of tall people have never played. They're very awkward. They can't dribble. I mean, you obviously have great talents, but when you play basketball for the first time, it's very awkward. Both. I would say I was awkward and I'm a pretty coachable person. And I had a good coach. And so the first few games were probably like, oh,

And then I really was pretty good about if I trusted you, if you're my coach or teacher, and you said, do this, I would really do my best to do that, whatever that was. And I had great teammates as well. And so I also had a boyfriend at the time.

who I still know today that came from a really, really good family. And when I say good, people think good, they think the Rockefellers. And I'm like, no, a good family, a loving family, kind family, and a together family. And he was a really powerful reminder to me that there's a lot of good people in the world doing their best, trying to show up with really great values, the real ones.

Not, you know, just go to church on Sunday, but like the real values. And then my senior year, weirdly, my mother wasn't going to return to St. Pete. She was going to go and stay back in New York. The principal of my school called her and said, send her here. And I lived with the principal and his wife and two small children.

My senior year. So I was the only, quote, unsaved person my junior year because they said, you know, do you have a relationship with Jesus? And I was just, it was all new to me. And I was like, and I was an honest kid. I was always really honest. And I was like, I just don't have, I just haven't grown up like this. So the joke was I was the only unsaved kid in the high school, whatever that means. And my senior year, I'm living with the principal. Was that so weird? Yeah.

Yes, but I've been bounced around so much in my life that it was weird and it wasn't. And this is a really important point, I think, for your audience. Sometimes we think...

We look and we go, I didn't get this. I didn't get that. I didn't get this. But if we really pay attention, we get extra in piles that a lot of people don't get. So I didn't really have a stable family much, but I had a lot of adults that stepped in at really pivotal times. A lot of extra adults that were willing to stand there and be loving figures and be

You know, learning to go, that's just as good because that's what we need, right? We need someone to go, hey, I believe in you. Hey, knock that off here. That's not cool. Hey, let's get some discipline. You know, what's going on? What's on your mind? And I had a lot of those people always. And so now, you know, of course, looking back, I had all these people who stepped in. So they stepped in. And again, I had that family and my boyfriend at the time who really

Taught me the value of practice and appreciating and enjoying sport. And then I went on from there and got a scholarship and played in college. You said something really important. And I always say the four most important words in the English language as a parent are, I believe in you. Do you say that to your kids? I do. Those words? I do. And more importantly...

that I've learned as a parent is sometimes, you know, when you have a kid who, who they, they're maybe, of course, they're going to go through things. And we've gone through many things with our, our kids is not only saying it to them, but kind of creating a heart vibration, if you will, that is they, they feel that you believe in them. Cause you might say, I believe in you. And then they think, Oh, she thinks I'm going to dah, dah, dah.

And I'll say to them, I believe in you and I know you're going to figure it out. But also, when I kind of, in my quiet time, just sort of say prayers about my whole family, kind of add in that spirit of...

This kid's going to find their essence and be their best and their life's going to reflect that. Because I often think that it's sort of like I've had coaches where I was feeling like I was in a circle unknown and didn't know what was going on. And they look at me and they go, you're going to figure it out, which doesn't mean you're going to do it right now even. It just means you're going to figure it out.

And sometimes that was even more important because it was like, well, they know and see something about me that I don't know about myself yet. You had a coach, Cecile Renaud. Is that how you pronounce her name? Yeah, Cecile Renaud. Yeah. Who saw you your junior year. No, my senior year. She came. How did she even find out about you? She just shows up at this little gym. She didn't find out about me. She fell onto me. So I...

I had gotten all these offers, more for basketball than volleyball because I went to a big camp. You were good enough to play basketball, D1 basketball. Yeah, I probably would have had to put on about 20 pounds and eat a little raw meat and get a little meaner, but I probably would have gotten there.

But I went to one of those BC camps, invitation camps. And after that, I was like, oh, these girls are tough. Like maybe I should probably have a net between my opponent and I. And I really had fun in volleyball. Anyway, I had played very little club volleyball, which is really common now. Kids play club, ninth grade through 12th grade, many tournaments every year. I played like two or three, maybe. I was in Tampa at the University of Tampa. Their coach...

Chris Katanak was his name, was from St. Croix, which is a sister island of where I'm from. So he's a Cruisian. And I was about to sign a letter of intent to go to the University of Tampa and play basketball and volleyball. It was a very good school, small school. My mother never went to my sporting events. My mom was there.

for whatever reason. Very tall woman, very, you know, she's formidable. Why didn't she go to your sporting events? She just, it just, whatever, timing, scheduling, who knows? Okay. A million reasons that... So she comes to this event. She's there. Cecile walks in the gym. She had a player that had become academically ineligible right then. So we're talking like

April, May, kind of late going in. I'm signing a letter of intent to go to the school for August. It's May. At University of Tampa. I'm at the University of Tampa in a club. I played for Tampa, this group called the Dagostinos. They run an incredible program out of there. Anyway, long story short, Cecile sees my mother and says, where's the kid connected to that woman?

literally, and walks over to the court, sees me, watches me for a few minutes. Believe me, it's not pretty. Good enough, probably. And she walks up to me and she goes, "I'm Cecil Renaud. Would you like to come for a visit?" I went for like an eight-hour visit. Usually, you go for a two-day visit.

drops me off, says, you know, we have a lot to offer you. And I think you have something to offer us. I don't see why you wouldn't want to come to Florida State. Boom, done. I went to Florida State. Isn't it interesting how so many of the best things that happen to us in life are so fortuitous and just a function of timing? Yeah. And that's, I feel like I've really clung to this idea as a parent.

Because I fret, I get concerned, and I'm like, oh, and you're so in control and in charge of all these things that are happening. Because I think about that in my own life. I was not to be kept from my destiny. And if you met me one week before I moved to Florida and said, here's the path of this kid, there's no way you would have lined it up. No way. No way.

So, that's why I always encourage people to listen to their heart and their instincts and really stay in touch with who are they and who do they think they really want to be. Because those opportunities, those peoples, those happenstance, those accidents are

right? They're going to show up. And sometimes it isn't when we want them. It's definitely never as quickly as we want them, as you know. And it may not even be in the form that we understand, but they will show up. You go to Florida State, things work out very well for you. You become a fantastic player. At some point, a family friend says, hey, you should go do some modeling. You're going to go to New York. Your mom says, no, she's not doing that. Tell us what happened then. Who was...

Who found you? Who was that moment? And where'd you go? What was your first modeling job? Well, so I was sort of found, let's say my, actually my junior year of high school and my mother, that's why she put the brakes on it. She said, listen, just finish high school. Cause I was going to graduate at 17. So I was still young and I had no idea that I was going to be playing college athletics then none.

And so what I decided to do, because I was very practically minded, is I was like, okay, a scholarship is a sure thing. I'm going to go to school for the year. I'll only be 18 after the first year. Then I'll go to New York. And so I was found by a woman named Coral Weigel, who since has passed. And she put me with IMG, which was at the time a very small agency. I went in the summer. I went to New York. I was a college athlete. I could work NCAA rules during the legal holiday. And

And I did very well quickly. And so I went back. What does that mean? I mean, it means I got... People don't really know what it's like to be a model. So you got to sit through auditions and you got to sit there. Everyone's looking at you and, you know, do this, walk this way. It's ridiculous. It's sort of like cattle, right? So you're...

And the funny thing is I was bigger than everybody. Thank God there was two very well-known models at that time who were working a ton. One, Rachel Williams and a girl named Ashley Richardson, very big girls. If they were not there, I don't know that I would have pulled it. I come up and of course the first thing is how I'm so much bigger than everybody, even my physical, I'm more muscular, I'm just a bigger person.

Back then they loved thin models. They always loved thin models. It never goes out of style. Okay. It's different today. Okay, yeah. That's a whole other thing. If you go into high fashion or runway or whatever, they love slender. But that weirdness, that strangeness, even my muscles kind of led itself where all of a sudden photographers were really interested in shooting me in form.

kind of the female form, if you will. So I worked, you know, I worked with all tons of all the magazines at that time. It meant something. Now magazines, it's a sort of a dying deal.

He'd be more like a big Instagram, sort of social media person with a large following. So I was in Vogue and Elle and Bazaar and all these magazines, but didn't come out. - You made the covers of some of those magazines. - Yeah, and so it was working. But by the way, let me just tell you a secret. They don't pay you for editorial. They pay you barely anything. It's like they're building your book and then you get big jobs for lots of money. That's how it works.

And so I was really fortunate. I got into kind of the slipstream of working with really good photographers and a group and, and that's how it happened. But then I went back to school in August and I was on scholarship. So I went back and I played for Cecile my sophomore year.

And that December, so after my season, I decided to give up my scholarship and pay to play. And her and I worked out a deal that sort of January, spring, I would live in New York and work because I was independent. I was paying for myself.

And I would work and then I would come to summer school. I would jam up on credits to stay eligible to play. I'd work a little more in summer. And then once I got back to school in August, I would not work. I only go to school and play. And that was our deal.

And I did that through my college career. So I played another three seasons like that. Do you remember what your first job was and how much you were paid? You know, I don't exactly remember my first job. I will tell you my first money job because it's very strange. So I go into this ad agency and I'm probably different than a lot of models because I'm a college athlete.

I come from the Caribbean. I'm, you know, just different, a little different. And so I go to a company called Ogilvy and Mather, which was a very big ad agency in those days. And there's this wonderful woman, J.B. Sutherland. I won't forget her name. And she says to me after we visit for a few days,

30 minutes 15 whatever and she says you know i really like you i want to find you a job she goes you know you have really pretty hands now remember i'm a college athlete i'm banging iron i'm hitting balls i'm doing all this they hire me for q-tex which is a nail company they pay me 3500 for the day in 1988 they barely use the side of my face they use my hands i'm you know i'm with hand models that have white gloves on and they're not doing anything with their hands and um

I got a credit card and a bank account and I was in the game a little bit. When Elle named you one of the five most beautiful women in the world, when that came out, what were you thinking? I wasn't. That's all. For me, again... Come on, you're being humble. No, I'm not. Did you say to yourself, holy shit, that's pretty cool they did that? It's very cool. I don't know what's cool about it. I have to be honest. I have always looked at that...

Again, you don't earn it. I was on the right shoot at the right time. And, you know, these magazines, it's all these titles, top 10, top five. Like I never was fooled by that. I was like, this is going to be very good for my work and it's going to create more opportunity. But it is what it is. And I always looked at it, even at 18, I looked at it like that. And I think my sports also kept me really grounded. And I understood the difference between

Good fortune and hard work. And they're very different. And so in fashion, that was a lot of good fortune and that was getting picked. That wasn't something I earned. And of course, I'd show up. I show up on time. I'm professional. Great. Those things I could control. But that other stuff for me. And remember, I had to go home and be with my teammates who would give you, you know,

you were going to get a hard time. So it's not like you could get full of yourself. Were they jealous of your success? I mean, here you are, you're going to New York, you're making money, you're on scholarship. I mean, I know you said you gave up your scholarship, but you can pick and choose when you want to come play. Did it affect your relationships with your teammates? It did. I had some teammates that didn't get it. They thought maybe I got off the hook because I didn't have to go to spring training because I lived in New York and worked.

But Cecile was really supportive and said, listen, if anyone had this opportunity, they would take it. And I'm going to try to help you navigate this kind of unusual opportunity that you have that might be really good for you in the future. But you just have to be dedicated when you're here as an athlete. And I was. I was dedicated. But it was hard on me.

Honestly, that was hard on me my whole career playing sports. I didn't have a relationship with that until I was like in my 30s. It was really hard for me to be singled out.

from my, from my teammates or for them to resent me for that. When really I just want to be a part of the team and contribute and, and win and be the best that I could. How much money were you making when you were in college going on all these modeling jobs? You know, several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Amazing. Yeah. I bought a house at 19, you know, looking for roots, right? That's crazy when you think about it.

Can you imagine your kids right now buying their own house at 19 years old? It'd be great. I can't. Wouldn't it be great? I'm joking. Not really, because I don't want my kids to leave. They don't leave. It'd be great for the independents, right? It'd be great if I'm going to earn the money and go through all the hard work and do it themselves. That'd be great, but I don't want them leaving my house. No, you know, that's the great thing. I feel as a parent...

You know, I tell my kids this and it might be kind of harsh, but I'm okay with it. I always say, if you come back here and you are with your dad and I, it's because it's good for you. And I always say like, you don't owe us anything. Whatever we've done for you is because that's our job. And so I want my kids to have this sort of freedom. And then it gives them this idea to explore making sure that all the people in their life are people that are good for them.

I think that's really, really, really important. It's very harsh, very harsh. But if you go through your life saying, I'm going to contribute to someone's life, but also I'm going to have boundaries that I will know how to take care of myself. Because also, for example, if they go off and have their own family,

You have to do that because you owe it to your family that you create to be all in. And so I know it doesn't mean you don't have quirky family members and they're a pain in the butt. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about really knowing how to build your life in a way that is really good for you because you're responsible for that. When you graduated, you moved to...

Florida for a little while and you played volleyball and then I guess four years before you actually played beach volleyball for the first time. Yeah. So tell us about the transition there and it's so different walking on sand and playing on sand than it is playing on a gym floor where you can stop on a dime and do all that. So what

What prompted the move? And then you move out to California as well. So after I finished playing at Florida State, I didn't want to live full-time in New York City, which is where I was living. So I moved to Miami because it was a city I could work out of. I had worked enough that I would just really fly to jobs at that point. I wasn't necessarily trying to get jobs. I would just...

get go to work. And so I could live there and I had some friends there. And just for fun, I picked up beach volleyball. I hadn't played beach volleyball before. And after about a year and a half, almost two years ish, I had a girl I was playing with who was quite good. And she played in all these small tournaments and qualified for some of the pro tournaments. And she said, you should move to California and try to pursue this.

And ignorance is bliss. And I was like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. And so I did. Tell people how it works. Because I think people, you know, we understand the football leagues. And I think it's a little new for people. There are two pickleball leagues. They just merged. And there's also two volleyball leagues. So explain to everyone how it works and which league you played in. And why does a player play in this one versus that one? Well,

Well, I was really fortunate. So when I moved out, doubles was the only one that existed, the WPVA, which no longer exists. It's all under the AVP at this time. Men's and women now are together. Then they were apart. AVP was men, WPVA, women. AVP stands for? Association of Volleyball Professional. And so long story short, I started in the doubles tour. And because I'm a middle from indoor...

You know, to say it frankly, I got my ass handed to me pretty good. Explain to what a middle is for people. Because a middle is so specialized. You hit and block and hit and block, and that's what you do, and you're big. You're in the middle of the volleyball court. Yeah, and you cover the whole net, and you're sort of an air traffic controller with your setter, letting people know what's happening, protecting areas, and you are – it's so specialized.

And so beach, you have to do everything. Well, right simultaneously, I moved out to California. I was a practice dummy for a lot of very good teams because I'm big and I could hit and block and I could do it. And they'd say, hey, do this, do that, whatever. Because they would use me to practice against. And simultaneously, the four-person tour opened up. So they had this whole other tour that opened up, which was really good for my game. And I got drafted. I was the first pick in the draft.

And so that kind of got me into a rhythm and my feet wet and I could be successful right away. So that was really very, very good for me. - You were a very good player. You were nominated for Offensive Player of the Year four years in a row. You led the year in,

You led the league in blocks one year. Yeah. It was a great game for me. And I'll tell you something funny is as a middle one year, I'm talking about I'm against all the best indoor players in the world, U.S. players in the world. I...

I was the smallest middle one year on the tour. So people have to understand these are really big, strong girls. And I really was grateful for the opportunity to play with such high-level athletes. A lot of them were Olympic players and doing all these different things. So it was a great experience, really great. Let's talk about the money. You guys get paid tons of money. You made $23,000 your first year on the tour. Huge cash.

Huge. We joked, my accountant said one year, she's like, you did not lose money. Cause I would pay my coach.

double what I earned. And with my team, we took care of taking them out and all these things. So the joke was if I broke even playing volleyball. So today, a lower player makes between $10,000 and $50,000 a year for the whole year. And again, you aren't going to lose money because you're traveling. A middle player makes between $50,000 and $100,000, $150,000. Then if you're a top player, a top, top, top,

you could make a million dollars a year through endorsements, but you gotta be one of the best players in the world. Yeah.

Double standard between men and women? Well, actually, quite frankly, you mean in athletics? Yeah, well, we're going to talk about a documentary in a second when it comes to volleyball. But just in terms of the pay for women is lower than the pay for men. Yeah, I don't know that it's that much lower. I think once you start getting into indoor contracts, maybe those are pretty different. And when I played forwards, we were paid more than the men because our TV ratings were higher.

So that was kind of a running joke. The boys, these six, eight, 10 guys were like, hey girls, thanks a lot. So we were paid more. Volleyball is one of the more even sports. You're just talking about a lifestyle sport. So it's just a hard sport. It's a small platform to make money on, period. Men or women, it's tough. There's no big TV contract that's supporting player salaries and- No.

You're not flying around first class. You're paying for your own coach ticket. Yeah. So a lot of players will, it's a little bit like maybe golf or tennis where you are paying, you're out of pocket before you start.

So a lot of times that's how it starts. Now, if you're one of the higher level, you have budgets for that. You have sponsors. You're winning prize money. But again, even volleyball, the prize money itself isn't that great. How do you pick a partner? It's sort of like dating, but your success is wholly dependent on your partner and their success is wholly dependent on you. Yeah. So location, location.

personality and the complimentary of style of play, I would say are the variables that go into that. And first would probably be style of play, right? Because people want to win. So it'd be like, okay, one person is maybe has a strong, you could have two that have real even skill set in all areas. You could have one that's a killer block and, you know, hit,

offensive player. So this player is usually a little better on the defense. So it just depends on the strengths and weaknesses. And then it goes down from there. So it would be your skill set. Then it would be your location. Can you practice together and get in those rhythms? And then obviously your personalities. I want to go back to the double standard for a minute. Okay. And then in 2013, ESPN did a documentary called Branded about volleyball players. And it talked about

the double standard between men can wear shorts and women have to wear things that I think you call toothpick clothing at some point. Does the double standard exist today? And what are we doing about it in sports to make it go away? I think, well, there's a couple of things. So the FIVB at that time had a rule that you couldn't have a side of your bathing suit couldn't be thicker than two fingers apart. The side of your bathing suit can't be thicker than

Two fingers. Right. So they go from there. Well, they just were smaller. So when I played fours, I played in running tights. It was comfortable. I liked it. They were tight and I wore an athletic top. Running tights that were full length? Mm-hmm. Okay. And so once you played internationally, the FIVB, which...

was trying to grow the sport, trying to get it more international, had secured a place in the Olympics. Part of the marketing, part of the story was these really beautiful and fit athletes. So I think that... People really...

oodling at women's own bodies. They're wearing skimpy bikinis basically playing. 100%. And there is a part of it. If I wasn't wearing tights, I'd rather wear a certain type of bottom, bathing suit bottom, than a pair of shorts, quite frankly. For me personally, and I know a lot of players feel this way, it's more comfortable. It's drier. You don't have sand all over you. There's some things of it. So if you're not wearing full tights,

a weirdly athletic bikini bottom is more comfortable, but it doesn't matter. They still had a ruling, which now doesn't exist. If you see the Brazilian team that won the gold this last Olympics, they were wearing shorts. So I think they've thrown that out, but...

Sports is entertainment and the people marketing it are going to, you know, they were thinking we're going to pull out all the stops of what is appealing about these sports. And, you know, beach volleyball players typically have very attractive physiques. I love the beach. I,

I have the trademark Mr. Beach. I'm the world's foremost beach expert, which is true because of my company, Sandy. We've created the world's largest, most trusted beach database. We've cataloged over 120 categories of data for more than 140,000 beaches in 212 countries. So that's my main job. Amazing. The beach is my happy place. However, I hate getting a mouthful of sand or any...

grain of sand anywhere near my mouth. So I've never understood you and the volleyball player jumping around. You must get just

fistfuls of sand in your face and your mouth. Occasionally, occasionally. And there's nothing prettier than a girl, you know, volleyball player spitting out sand. I definitely have eaten sand in my life, I will tell you. And it's not fun. But the sand and the beaches, it's such a magical place. And the great thing about that environment is you get stronger, it beats you up less than indoor. So it creates an opportunity where you can play a lot longer.

When you know you're going down, do you breathe out so it doesn't get in your mouth or just close up and close your eyes? Well, you kind of hold your breath because if you're going to fall, you kind of brace yourself. So I think you keep your air in to protect all your organs. Okay. But there's just times where you're reaching and you're kind of open, your mouth is open and it just becomes inevitable for sure. So how did you go from...

professional beach volleyball player to getting your own MTV show and working with CBS and all these other networks? So when I was playing, I sort of really looked at the landscape and thought, you know, this sport is really small and it's going to be, there's a real limitation here. So I had already been modeling and I was

I started writing columns for Elle magazine because I had relationships there. And so I wrote about fitness in these fashion magazines, which kind of opened up my mind that I could communicate a little bit more.

And so there was a guy named Dan Cortez, who I still know, and he got hurt doing this show called MTV Sports because he would go and try all these things. Yeah, and I'm an Albu guy. I've met him, great guy. Yeah, so he's lovely. So he was like, hey, I'm not doing that anymore. I'll do the wraparounds, which is like the intros and stuff, and get somebody else. And they brought me in. And so what was great about that is

you didn't have to be really good. You could practice and develop a skill set and not get too punished for it. And I got to interview a ton of athletes. I would try every sport or activity of the person I interviewed. And it really got me sort of a little more comfortable in front of the camera and just kind of learning how it works. So it was...

again, a really fortunate opportunity. And I, I really enjoy interviewing other athletes because that was the other thing is for, you know, kind of the previous five years, it had always been questions to me, at least in my world. And,

And I love the idea because remember, I'm a team player of talking to someone else about them. So you look at Tom Brady as a goat. He signed this $375 million 10-year deal with Fox. He took a year off to study broadcasting to make sure he was going to be at the top of his game. And he didn't do so well his first game, but he's pretty good right now. And he's really gotten into it. Did you have to study to become a broadcaster or just come naturally to you?

Well, that's the great thing about doing it in a low impact way. If I was given that kind of contract, there would have been training. And certainly I had media training over the years.

which I actually found really annoying because media trainers, they over message you. So you lose your authentic voice. They try to say like, oh, say the question and the answer and this and that. It's like, yes. And how do you let your real personality come out simultaneously to hitting the marks, being concise and doing all of that? So I learned on the fly, but I will say, I also think I'm naturally,

It was something I could do naturally. And at some point, you became the first woman ever for Nike to design a shoe for. Did Phil Knight just call you up and say, hey, Gabby, I see you. I'm a big fan. Let's do a shoe. I love PK.

No, I... PK. How great would it be to know Phil Knight and be able to call him PK? That's very cool. But he's a really special person. No, let's talk about good timing. So you have all these other female athletes that laid the path for me. Bo Jackson comes out with cross training over here.

They needed a female counterpart because I was pretty serious about my training. I always have been because in beach volleyball, I don't even wear shoes. They brought me in as their cross training female representative and it was just really good timing. And then Tinker Hatfield did my shoe. And so Tinker is the kind of designer that you're, you're really lining up to be successful. I mean, he did a lot of the Jordans and so many other incredible shoes from Nike. So again, I,

It's not being naive enough to not realize when you're really being put in the right place at the right time. As you're going through all this career development, are you telling yourself, geez, look at where I started, look at where I am today, and are you taking inventory in terms of what I want to do next and what's my next move?

Or you're just letting it happen? Well, yes, I'm letting it happen. And no, I'm sort of aware that if you want to be somewhere, it's going to still always take a little time. So where do you think you want that to be? And so who do you need to call? Or what questions do you need to ask? Or who do you need to reach out to? And so I was always pretty good about being here and looking ahead and

Because, again, from maybe my childhood, it was, yeah, this is okay, but what does the runway look like in the future? And because I didn't have people handling that for me, I was always really proactive in kind of going, well, where do I think I want to be? And asking people either to help me or could I be involved in something? And so I've always kind of looked ahead to where do I think I want to be?

But here's the other side of that. I always tell people, do the things that you're inspired to do, that you're motivated to do, that you're willing to work hard at for the sake of those reasons because you like it.

Then once you're in it, then you can get strategic. I think it's a mistake when people over-strategize like, well, that looks like a good space or that's a white space and I should go there. Well, are you even going to be good at that? Or do you even like that? So I don't get strategic until I'm kind of in there. And then I go, yeah, this is something I'm feeling. Now I'm going to get strategic. We talked briefly, you mentioned a one, three and five-year plan about companies, but what

Are you saying that we shouldn't have one, three, and five-year plans for our personal business plan in terms of our career and professional development? I think you should, but I think you should lean into the things that feel good to you first that match your natural skill sets. I think we overthink it sometimes, and it's disingenuine sometimes.

If we lean into something because everyone's doing it, it's popular, it's on trend, or like I said earlier, it's a white space. I think it's really important to be guided by your internal space.

you know, desires and sort of things like, what do I want to be spending my time grinding away at? And then once you get in there, I think you really should be strategic. But I think it's premature to do it from the outside of a situation until you even really know.

At various points in our careers, we take risks, we evaluate something we said is going to be upside, there could be a lot of downside. At some point, you decided to do a Playboy spread and tell us about how, what the thought process was, how it helped you and how possibly it hurt you.

So I was 30. So I was a grown up when I chose to do it. And I had full creative control. There was no one from the magazine at my shoots. I worked with a photographer that I'd already worked with at that time for 12 years. So I trusted him very much. And I thought to myself, would this be something that I would be afraid to show my children?

And they paid me a lot of money. And also, I sort of had all the rights to it as well. I kept the rights. So it was sort of negotiated in the strictest way that I could. I felt comfortable. And the pictures are really in celebration of a powerful female form.

I'm not there sitting on like bubbles with high heels. I don't even have makeup on and I'm in natural environments. So I felt good about it. And again, I controlled the whole thing. The downside was I was tapped to do the presidential like campaign.

part of the fitness presidential group. And they said, is there anything you've ever done that's controversial at that time? And I was like, well, not really, but maybe if you guys consider Playboy controversial. So I went through all the interviews. I was grilled beyond. I'm really not that exciting. And then right at the end, they said, well, actually, because you did Playboy. And I thought, oh, it's so interesting. But like my daughters have seen it and it really isn't, um,

I don't think it's, it never really was that big of a deal. Did they talk to you about it or did you bring it up? Did they bring it up? How did that conversation go? Well, it was really my middle daughter was the one who said, like brought it up. You told them that you had done it or they just found out about it? Well, they weren't born then. Right. But at some point they knew. Yeah. I did say, Hey, you know, I'd done that. And if you ever want to see the photos, Oh, I know. Right. Um,

And I really - the images are - in a way they're not provocative. It's - you know, be like more like something you'd see at some like photographer's art studio than like Playboy.

So maybe the medium was a little more controversial than the actual images themselves. I'm completely nude, so I'm not going to dance around that. But they, yeah, I think they were. In fact, my middle is like, oh, that's interesting that you can have photos like that that you have of yourself forever. And I'm like, you don't really look at them. You've been very successful in a lot of things you've done in your career. And also, I view my biggest success as my kids. What's your definition of success?

My personal definition of success is when your life reflects back to you the feeling that you have about who you are inside. And that means all the things like where you get to live, the person I'm married to, um,

The fact that I have relationships with my kids, deep and loving relationships, not perfect relationships. They're never perfect. No. And that's the thing. I never want to sell that bill like, we have it figured out. I have nothing figured out. I'm just going to wake up every day and keep trying.

But all those things feel like something that is connected to who I am in my spirit, in my soul, including my work. And so that for me is success, not lots of attention, fame, money. I mean, that stuff is unsustainable, you know, being the best, being

being relevant, all these things are not sustainable. So it's really about those real relationships, the one you have with yourself and the people close to you. And you know what I'll add to that, which is...

I like to have choices. I like to have professional and creative choices because that keeps me stimulated and excited. And I really think that that is a real part of success when you still get to have those choices. What are the three most important ingredients of success? Oh, I'd imagine it's different for everyone. I think for me, it's definitely hard work has really just the tenacity to just keep on rolling and

I think having a certain amount of objectivity to what you're doing is really important in success. I think not, it's like, it might be the most important thing to you, but remembering where it fits in the grand scheme of the story and where it creates value for other people, I think is really important.

And if like later on in another 30 years, I don't think, God, I wish I hadn't spent so much time doing that. I really believe in the stuff I wake up for each day.

And it feels like time well spent. So that feels like a part of success. I don't want to feel like I, you know, my husband says this all the time, like, is this what we're doing? Because for him, he wants to be more in nature and more outside. And I'm answering more emails. And he's like, is this what we're doing with our lives? And I'm like, part of it is, yeah. So I think it's that hard work. It's that ability to have space and take the losses and don't get crazy with the wins.

And also for it to keep growing. If you can not just keep doing the same thing, but your success represents who you are today, not who you were 20 years ago, I think that's pretty interesting. One of the core ingredients and elements of my success is something I call extreme preparation. I'm writing a book by the same topic. And it means if someone's preparing a one hour for a meeting, I may do five or 10 for a podcast. It's usually 15 per show.

How has extreme preparation contributed to your success? And can you give some examples? Yeah. See, I put that preparation. I really appreciate that, by the way, into my hard work bucket, which means like you're thorough. I want to be prepared so that I can forget after that. Like,

You know, whether I've trained really hard and prepared when you're playing so you're free to play, or if I'm doing an interview where I've done so much work that when I'm asking the questions, they're really almost from a place of like my subconscious, not, okay, I've got my paper and I'm ready to do that. So that you, you know, my aunt told me this a long time ago when I was a kid, we have to know the rules so we can then break them. And that's how I feel about preparation.

We have to be so prepared and ready so that we're able to pivot and adapt when we need to. We're prepared enough to do that. And we know enough about what we're doing that we can also make it really simple.

I really appreciate it when people can take big ideas and tell me in three words or less. And so preparation for me gives me that freedom. Are there any specific examples that you can remember where you said, oh my God, I prepared more than anybody else and it led to a specific positive result that otherwise would not have been possible? I mean, it definitely showed up in athletics.

And I think, you know, doing a podcast where I have to talk to scientists that write all these books, I don't know that I could be more successful than other people that interview them. But I know that then it gives me the freedom to interview them as my genuine self versus kind of the obvious stuff. Like I'm going to ask the same 20 questions that everybody asks. No, I'm going to take in all this information and then I'm going to ask the questions that are interesting to me. It shows up there for sure.

Where does fear of failure come into our success and motivation? Can you be successful without a fear of failure? I think there are people who do it. I think there are people who are more fluid than someone like me where they just like, oh, this is fun and they're talented and they can just kind of keep rolling into it. I think a lot, some artists are like that, you know, singers or painters maybe, but

For me, it was originally fear of failure, have to survive, have to make it. And then it became, try to pay attention to how fortunate you are that you get this. And how do you, you know, sort of what do you want this to continue to look like? So take care of the privilege through hard work, through gratitude, and through being able to take the knocks. But

I don't know. Fear is really a powerful fuel, but at some point we got to get rid of it because I also think it has another side that's destructive. And so as we mature, I think we have to try to offload the fear and make it something else. I think communication is very important to our success. You said that men communicate through food and sex. How do women communicate? Well, a lot of things with women is nonverbal, right? You're supposed to figure it out.

That's the tricky part. I think women, there's a little, oftentimes a little bit more emotion and sort of nuance. And also because we're not encouraged to just say it.

Like, this is what I want. This is what I need. And so I think a lot of times you'll see, though, in athletics or business, women who have developed a relationship with that. It makes it easier. For me personally, if you want to talk about some of the abstract, I really like to be cherished. Appreciated? Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, when I feel that...

the people really close to me, my husband and not my children. I don't, well, maybe as they've gotten older, I think when they're younger and they're teenagers, I don't have any expectation of that. Their job is to kind of worry about themselves, you know? It doesn't mean I don't like a thank you, but I have realistic expectations. But just like you're important to me and I don't need a lot of it. But also what I really appreciate is a presence.

I don't need a lot of anyone's time, but if we can connect for real, even if it's for a short period of time, that is much more fulfilling and feeds my spirit or love almost more than anything else. Most people I know have some motivation to make money.

Someone told me, by the way, if someone said I'm not motivated by money, it's hard to believe somebody like that. Sure. I mean, 99% of people in the world, probably 99.99% are motivated by money to different degrees. Right. Right. We've seen people make gobs of money who are absolutely miserable and destroy their lives. Yeah. You've said you've seen it a lot. At what point? And you said at some point you have too much money where it's destructive. Yeah. What's the number?

I don't know, because I think every individual is different. But I don't know that we're meant to have like... And listen, I know a couple people who have a lot of billions and billions, and some of them, it's okay. I just, I think it's...

But this is my own hangup. Maybe I've had to come to terms with that. There's people who like, I'm looking for some kind of like, oh, normal life and, you know, connecting with everybody. And there's people who are like, yeah, no, I don't want to. I don't want to cook my own meals. I want to be off in a bubble over here. And so I'm actually putting my filter on them because I associate kind of those, that normalcy and that connection with a sense of happiness and being part of the story.

And I think there's people who are like, no, I want to go live on that planet by myself. So maybe I should look at that. What I do know, and I've said this, is when the money, the pursuit, destroys your real life, that's too much. And I, for a long time, would put a governor because having these real relationships, my marriage, my children, I always was trying to protect that relationship.

And now I've had to look at that because maybe it's been too much of a governor in certain ways. And like almost a limiting belief or that you could have sort of this expansive success and this. So that's something I've really had to look at. When I was 31 years old, I had the incredibly good and lucky fortune to be a founder of a company, internet company. Not really, but that's how people look at it too. Mm-hmm.

went go public a year after we incorporated the company within a year, a year, which will never happen again. On 3.2 million dollars of gap revenue, revenue in the bank, we had a market capitalization of 35 billion dollars. And it was a good event. I know. I mean, it's it's it's it's almost I mean, you can't help but not laugh. So but it's also very appreciative to go through something. And it's a life changing event in so many ways. But

What I want to talk about is I remember right after a company went public, maybe two months, the Wall Street Journal wrote something about sudden wealth syndrome. And it was, geez, you get all this money quickly at a young age. You don't know what to do with it. How do you deal with it? Some people feel guilty. I mean, I remember when I was younger, my Porsche was my dream car. I'd go sit in a Porsche dealership once a year. I'd sit in there one day and I'm going to own a Porsche. So I could...

clearly afford a Porsche after our company went public. And it took me almost a year to go and actually buy the Porsche. I felt guilty. I said, oh my gosh, this thing is, you know, $107,000. By the way, I still have it today. I mean, it's like a little go-kart. It's not really made how, you know, don't drive it on the highway. But I remember thinking, gosh, you know, I feel, I do feel guilty. You had success in your 20s, had all the success and you felt guilty and you said that you didn't deserve it. Why not?

I think when you're not groomed for success and you get, you're telling yourself one narrative your whole life and then all of a sudden you do get success. I think it's, you feel like shame or something to that nature of why do I get to, you know, and you'd see other people who they're working two jobs just to keep, cause I am sensitive. And, and so this fairness thing, uh, really would hit like, well, why do I get to? And, um,

And that was really hard and also hard when you're on a team sport. You know, when you're doing the same thing, you're on the same team as everyone else and you're making, you know, 10 times, 20 times, whatever. I don't know. Your teammates, it feels, it felt, it was awkward. It was uncomfortable. And then I've learned it changes. Life is unfair and it isn't for us to know why.

But the best thing we could do to show that we're grateful for it is to do good things with it and really try to show up. But yeah, it isn't. I mean, you know, the world has some crazy lopsided things happening. Did you get over your guilt?

and say, "Okay, I actually did earn it when I think back. I went to these modeling jobs." I never use the word "earn" because you know as well as I do how much of luck there's plenty of people that could have done exactly what I did. I just was at the right place at the right time and I'm the one filling that space. It isn't me doing it. It's just like I'm the one in that space at that time.

You know, listen, you ever drive down the road and you see someone who's sitting at the bus stop and you know they just came from work at someone's house? And you think, okay, so they walk to the bus stop, they go, they bust their ass for however much that you're going to go eat at a restaurant at dinner. So I'm well aware.

Let's just say that. I don't spend a lot of time feeling guilty because that's just some like weird thing that unless I'm going to do something about it, unless it mobilizes me to do something, but I'm well aware of like kind of all the, you know, things and, and

and how it could go and how it goes for a lot of people. You're listening to part one of my incredible interview with Gabby Reese. Gabby is a former professional volleyball player who's gone on to have an incredible career as a sports announcer, fitness advocate, serial entrepreneur, public speaker, a model, actress, New York Times bestselling author, television host, and podcast host. It's an incredible episode. You're going to learn a lot about her. Be sure to tune in next week to part two of my incredible interview with Gabby.