Scaling with Sanity: The Anti-Burnout Blueprint from Matt Gray | #Success - Ep. 35
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What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the show. Today, I'm excited. I've got a guest who flew here all the way from Bali through about 12 other places. He's a world traveler and does a lot of really cool things. Someone I've been watching online now for the last couple years. We've been talking and finally had a chance to meet each other in person like 10 minutes ago. And he's here in Boise in office, and we're going to be talking about some really cool things in his business. His name is Matt Gray, and thanks for coming to Boise, man. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Great to be here. So you're living in Bali, but you've been traveling...

in your world travelers, we'll talk about more, but, um, yeah, just curious the trip you're on right now and why you're swinging by Boise. Yeah. So, uh, was, yeah, on a bit of a journey twice a year, we run different events and experiences for founder OS and we just ran one in Austin and I figured, well, I'm in the country might as well make an epic trip out of it. So took my parents to Wyoming, to Yellowstone and, uh, Grand Teton for some hikes. And then

And yeah, we were talking and I was like, why not make the trip out to Boise? Yeah, no one comes to Boise. A couple of connections later, you're in Boise, even though it's next door and you make it happen. Wyoming to Boise would be simple, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, no, it's great to be here. That's awesome to have you here. So for those people that don't know you, like how did you get your start in this whole world? How long ago? So yeah, a little background. When I was 20, I started a technology bootcamp in Canada, the first of its kind, where we trained full stack software engineers and then got them jobs at tech companies like Shopify, Facebook,

Google. And over the course of a few years, we trained 2000 software engineers. One month after graduation, they'd go through these like three months of intensive training and we train them up, get them jobs. 90% of them are getting jobs one month after graduating and did really well. We ended up exiting the business to general assembly. They bought us, you know, when they were coming North to Canada and,

After that, I was like, okay, a lot of things were great about this business, but I hated the fact that I was just stuck in Toronto running this in-person thing. And I knew the next business that I created, I wanted to have, you know, location freedom. So picked up my bags, got rid of everything and started traveling, went to New Zealand, Peru, Australia.

came across this random website of all things called the stoner's cookbook some guys I'd met when I was in New Zealand I ended up buying the website off them and rebranding it to herb I kind of saw the writing on the wall of where the cannabis industry was going over the next decade and saw an opportunity to yeah like transform it into something much more tasteful curated and there was no platform that was really reliable and trustworthy around that niche and

And sure enough, 10 years later, we kind of grew it into an audience of over 14 million people. And yeah, so that's kind of a bit of the journey there. Did you sell that business? You still have that business? I still have that business. Yeah. So that's one portfolio company I have. And then about a few years ago, I started another company called FounderOS, where we help founders with proven systems to scale their audience, their brand and their community using kind of all the systems I've used to build multiple profitable online businesses. And

uh, yeah, really just passionate about helping founders, you know, kind of make the founder journey much more joyful. I think we're both kind of aligned around that. I think it can be lonely and difficult and,

Yeah, overwhelming at times. And I think when I set out to build FounderOS, I set out to build a business that was kind of in my icky guy, like what I love to do, what I'm good at, what I can be paid for, and what the world needs. And sought out to build something that would feel like everyday retirement, like working on the stuff that even if I was retired, this is the kind of stuff I'd be doing every single day. And I feel like you're also in that element. You can see it just when you're running different events or you're in the room with founders. You're just there because you genuinely...

You wake up and you live this shit. And so, you know, I can feel that. I think others can feel that. And I wanted that for my own life to be able to wake up every day and just work on my calling. And so that's what found us is kind of the manifestation of that. That's cool. It's interesting to me because I think, again, I think we do serve very similar audiences, but we also –

We call them by different names, which is interesting. I look at like – I look at in this world, right? A lot of people call them creators. A lot of people call them entrepreneurs. You call them founders. They're very similar, but it's like a different perspective a little bit even though they're the same people, people starting businesses, right? I'm curious like just the definition of founder for you. Like what's – like the people you're typically working with, like what's their – who are they? What do they look like?

Yeah, so for me, I think that things like entrepreneur, founder, business owner, these are all synonymous. Founder to me is just, yeah, someone that's running a business around a thing that they love to do and looking to scale it. The typical person that we work with is someone that's doing generally about 50K per month. Do they consider themselves entrepreneurs? Because like-

When I bought Dan Kennedy's business, those people don't consider themselves entrepreneurs. They consider themselves small business owners. They're like, we're not entrepreneurs. We're small business owners. Do your founders consider themselves entrepreneurs or? Yeah, they definitely consider themselves entrepreneurs. And I think if anything, the bridge that's going on in terms of maybe their identity is, I think more and more founders these days are merging with like the creator economy. Stuff that you've been talking about for a decade or more now. So this idea that. Between the two. Yeah. You know, this idea that.

people follow people, then they follow brands. And I think that when you have a personal brand, what I call a founder-led brand, you're able to go and make sure that you have people really understanding the story behind what you're building and they can really follow you, follow your journey, and that makes the brand that much more impactful and it allows you to grow it a lot faster. And so this importance as a founder to really be thinking about building your audience day one.

You know, there's that whole saying like first time founders focus on tech, second time founders focus on distribution. And I think more and more people are waking up to like the quicker you can build that distribution, build that personal brand and an audience around yourself. It sets you up for, you know, having this amazing kind of media moat around your business for the next decade to come, whether you're still building that business or maybe it's sold and you're onto the next one and you still have that brand and audience around yourself. A hundred percent. It's interesting because, you know,

like 10 years ago when I was our first talking about nobody, it was just funny. Cause people were like, no, I'm like, they didn't want to be the ones like the, the joke was always like, I don't want to dance on Tik TOK or I don't want to show my face. Like I'm a, I'm a, you know, I'm starting a company. This is like dumb stuff. And, um,

Whereas, you know, it's like it's free media, it's free leverage, it's free. You build the brand and the personality that ties together and just makes everything else easier on top of it.

I learned, you know, the benefits of that, but also the struggle of, you know, you maybe have an idea that comes into your head of something you want to create and then you have to kind of brief it and delegate it and follow up on it and quality control it. Whereas for me, like building a personal brand or building a founder led brand around yourself is,

the speed at which you can go from just idea to creation is oftentimes like just instantaneous. Um, and you don't need to answer to anyone. You don't even necessarily need to manage anyone. You can just, you know, come up with that idea, sit down, film it, push it. Um, and having that control over your media, I think is, is nice. So you can kind of control your destiny more and you're not reliant on so many people. Um,

So I also realized that when we launched ClickFunnels, we had some competitors and I had a voice, I had a brand and our competitors didn't, they had a lot of VC money, but they had no voice, no brand. It's like when we would, um,

you know, when we were fighting, you know, I'm very competitive. So when we were competing against them, I was able to say things and they couldn't review, they couldn't fight back because they didn't have a voice to the market. They had a brand that everyone knew, but they didn't have a voice or spokesperson or anything to be able to, I could say a lot of things I needed to say, you know, um, persuade opinion, things like that. And they didn't have the ability to, to really fight back. And I think that that was another thing that when you understand that it's like, it gives you the ability, like when you need to shift narratives or need to change whatever the thing might be, the market's shifting, like, um,

If you don't have that voice and that personal brand, it makes it so hard to be able to navigate through a lot of the things quickly. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, and I think there's this whole kind of like 360 degree element to it that people don't think about. Oftentimes people, when they associate with it, they think, oh, it's, you know, to become famous or to get customers. But, you know, even this right now is like indicative of like the power of it. You know, we just had, I'd shared a couple of things online on Twitter.

you know, I think about a year ago and we started chatting a little bit on Instagram around some stuff. And then one thing led to another and here we are in Boise. Right. So, you know, whether it's just like serendipitous connections and that happens to me all over the world, wherever I'm traveling, I'm constantly meeting different people and that I wouldn't otherwise meet if I didn't have an audience. Uh,

You know, the amount of opportunities, amazing hires you're able to also get. I think probably three quarters of our team has found me from the audience I've built. And it's top talent that I don't think I'd otherwise maybe be able to even attract. So, yeah, it's insane the power of it when you get it right. I had a call from the group of entrepreneurs this morning and they were trying to figure out how to do their hires. I was like, your dream customer is probably already following you. They probably love you. They're obsessed with your mission and your message. And they knew there's opportunity there.

to leave what they were doing to help you, they'd probably take a huge pay cut because you know, then like you attract these people because they believe in the vision. Whereas yeah, you're posting jobs and you're hoping that somebody shows up, you know what I mean? He doesn't know who you are. You then bring them into your culture and stuff, which is, yeah, a nightmare on the hiring side. So, all right, I want to ask you a question that's not specific to the business side yet, but it's something that I'm really interested in from a lot of different reasons. And, um,

so, you know, I'm Mormon, so I don't drink or smoke or anything, never have. And a year ago, year and a half ago, you posted that you prior had done a lot of that and then you were stopping it or cutting it out. I'm just curious about that. Yeah, great question. Like why and how and what you've noticed since then. Yeah, so, you know, my journey, you know, I think the only thing that's like inevitable with humans is that like is change, right? And when I started Herb, when I was 24, I saw this amazing opportunity.

to build something in the cannabis industry. I believe like people should have freedom to make their own choices in life. And there were for so many other reasons, like really believe in the mission behind what we're doing on a more personal level, probably around five years ago, six years ago, maybe now, um, I, you know, I've been running businesses, um, was running a few at the time and found myself in a hotel room having like a borderline panic attack, um, just from the stress, the overwhelm, there were a couple crazy things that were going on.

Um, and there were some things out of my control, but then I started to come to a realization that there were a lot of things that were in my control that were contributing to this, you know, was drinking a few times a week to cope with the stress on weekends was smoking probably like 10 joints a day at that point. Um, and yeah, had probably a pretty bad addiction that I needed to kind of take a look at that had kind of just been a bit hitting cause I was functioning and I was in an industry where the stuff can kind of like, you know, get by. Um, and so, um,

Ended up having some brain scans done, realized that on top of all that, there were some like brain conditions, had some frontal lobe damage from too many concussions playing hockey, of course, in Canada. And yeah, it just kind of woke me up to like, wow, I really need to start taking care of my health. And so from that journey, reached out to different experts. One of them actually was Huberman and learned through him that cannabis breaks the chain between DHEA being converted into testosterone.

And I found that interesting because at the same time I was learning that testosterone is the chemical in humans that makes effort feel good. And, you know, we work so hard as founders, like bashing through walls all the time, oftentimes fighting different fires and building things that I was like, I felt it kind of hit me that I was kind of working backwards. You know, I was working so hard in so many ways, but then on a health side, working backwards in terms of like, yeah, even chemically screwing up my body a little bit. So I decided to

I decided I needed to make a change because it wasn't sustainable the way I was going. And that journey led me to, you know, finding a sobriety coach, finding an executive coach and really going deep on the health side. I started replacing smoking and drinking with journaling daily. I'd read the book, The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Didn't really know the change it was going to make in my life and just started waking up every day to write my morning pages and

three pages just kind of poured out to me daily did that for about 90 days and I started bringing some of these concepts online sharing them on Twitter at the time and in a newsletter really no agenda in mind other than just hey let's just put some stuff out there and see the kind of people that are interested in this or maybe not and one thing led to another and yeah I started attracting a lot of founders that really resonated with this they they

Had similar experiences in their lives. They thought, I think these were some topics that they were hoping someone would open up more about. And that kind of compounded to building more of a audience online that people that kind of are attracted to, you know, not just building amazing systems around your business, but amazing systems for your own, your life, your health. So that, yeah, at the end of the day, like strong founders are.

build strong businesses. And so you need to make sure you're taking care of yourself. So yeah, that's kind of a bit of that. It's really cool. I think it's interesting in, in at least the community that I watch every single day, like people start making more money, they get more stressed, they get more, all that kind of stuff. And they're always looking for ways to sedate the pain, the pressure, the whatever those things are, you know? And it's interesting because I always, I see people who, you know, I'm a big,

I think one of my superpowers, I see someone, I see their divine potential, like what they could do or they could become. And there's like the pressure and the stress. And instead of like allowing that to be the thing that helps them get to the next level, they sedate through other things and take the pressure off. And it's almost weird to not do that. You know what I mean? Like people are like – anyway. And so it's been hard for me to have a conversation.

to be able to be in that conversation because I've never done it. So I can't be like, Oh, we shouldn't do it because of this or this. And I thought it was really fascinating, especially since you have a company doing that, you know, around that kind of thing. But then for you to be one side and then go to the other, it's really fascinating. Um, and, uh, super weird. Yeah, it's super, but it's, but it's, it's really cool. And I think that I just wish more entrepreneurs would look at it that way because they, they,

again, it makes you feel good. It takes off the pressure. It gives you, cause we're dealing with so much stuff. There's so much pressure all the time. And, and it's an easy way to get out of that. But I think it's, it's like what keeps people from actually hitting their potential. I had, you know, some of my best employees, designers who, who, you know, there's times when they're just amazing, but then there's times that they, and maybe it's a creator thing. We all have, you know, pain, whatever comes with, with the, the art or the ideas we have, you know what I mean? And, and then there was to date with these things. And then,

You could tell it's just like, ah, like we lose, like they're more creative a little bit, but then they, they don't push, they don't drive, they don't do anything. And it's just like this, this thing where anyway, so I just was really curious on your takes on that. Well, I think, I think as like, as founders, as entrepreneurs, like, you know, we're constantly evaluating our businesses, right? Auditing like the finance area, seeing how that's coming along, looking at your marketing, what's performing best, what's not stopping the stuff that's not doing well, doubling down on the stuff that really works. And oftentimes we let ourselves get off on an easy street and just,

not reflect too much on you know what stuff that may have been serving us when we were 25 is not serving us at 30 and it could be anything right like your diet your exercise whatever um it so happened that my vices were drinking and smoking but other people have vices of sugar and bread i don't know right so uh you know i think it's just yeah important to just be honest with yourself and at the same token too whether it's you know rebranding your business rebranding yourself

you can always change, right? Like just because something's been a certain way doesn't mean you got to keep doing it, right? And for me, yeah, it was kind of weird. You know, I'm running this cannabis company. Now you're like, whoa, you're not smoking weed. It's like, I'm not against it. I mean, I think everyone should be able to do whatever they want to do, right? That doesn't change at all. That my belief in freedom, my belief that adults can make adult decisions, nothing's changed there in terms of like what's right for me and what I think I should be doing going forward. I'm going to experiment with a new me. So yeah, just always being open to reinventing yourself. And I think it's something that

Can be a superpower. Yeah. Super cool. Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate that. Okay. So I want to dive more deeper into the founder side of your business. That's what you're passionate about. And I'm a frameworks guy. I like seeing the framework. So I'm curious, like when someone comes into your world, they're a founder or they want to be a founder. Like what's the process? What are the things you start, you start taking people through? And I'm also curious just for you,

When people come to my world, I'm obviously very marketing and sales focused. Like that's what I teach my people and train. I never teach operations because I'm not a good operator, right? But that's the direction I focus on. So I'm curious for you, like what's the direction you focus on with your people? And then kind of what are the process, what are the things that you're, the frameworks you take people through to get their brand and their personality out there? Yeah, so everything at FoundRust is pretty customized. You know, we've got hundreds of systems that I've used over the years to help me with different things.

I think at the end of the day, I'd say 90% of founders fall into the following kind of buckets. There'd be people that are looking to scale their audience, people that are looking to grow their offer, those that are looking to get more of their time back, or people looking to build a team. Now, they oftentimes get mixed up, but there's one general instant priority someone's looking for, right? So we're trying to assess...

Is this a person that has a really successful business and now is just trying to get their time back and that's their real currency? Or is it someone that is both a great business maybe and now they're looking to scale their audience really fast? And so depending on what sort of avatar they fall into there, we're then going to kind of customize that.

the journey they should be going on from there. But, you know, the kinds of things that we help folks with at the core of it is like a content GPS. And what that is, is helping people grow an organic audience across social platforms. So whether that's X LinkedIn, if they're more writing first or YouTube and Tik TOK, if they're going more video first, as well as Instagram, um,

From there, driving people to a newsletter, to workshops, maybe webinars, and then actually owning that audience in their email list. I think a lot of founders, they move from social and they just think that they should be selling directly from social. And I think what ends up happening is you're way too salesy. And that may work for six months, but I think that eventually you kind of burn your organic audience if you're just selling too much just from social.

And I think a lot of people, too, want to go and build a brand and want to be more active on social, but they don't want to come across as salesy. And that becomes a blocker. And if they knew that there was actually just a way to drive people from your audience to an email where then you can sell, I think it then opens up a range of possibilities. And so we kind of help them with that organic content funnel and then driving people to whether it's, you know, a product platform.

sales page or a sales call, depending on the industry they're in, helping them set that up. And then the systems along the way to make sure they're doing this efficiently. So that the hope is that they can scale it without their involvement for the most part. So, you know, I've been able to, you know, scale an audience now about 3 million folks the last few years around, around my own brand. And, you know, we're only filming generally around like once every couple months, we'd batch all the content it's done in like a few days,

I can delegate it to my team from there and then just get back to living my life, traveling, enjoying things. And so trying to make sure that at the end of the day,

When you are both a founder and a creator, it kind of doubles your chances of burnout. And we were just talking about some of the things I used to cope with for that burnout or those feelings of overwhelm. The last thing I want to do is set founders up for that same issue. And so as much as you're sort of ramping things up in terms of the content and the audience side, I think you also need to be ramping up the systems to make this whole journey sustainable so you don't burn out. Yeah.

Funnel hackers, let me tell you a story that still makes me cringe a little. We were gearing up for a huge launch, funnels were done, landing pages were tight, copy was dialed in, everything was ready to rock. Except for one thing. We were looking for more support people to be able to handle the launch. And we figured no big deal, we're going to find somebody quickly. But that didn't happen. We spent weeks trying to hire the right person. We put listings on all the typical sites, but they got buried under a flood of random applicants.

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Indeed.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. All right, funnel hackers, let's have some fun for a second. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing isn't getting attention. It's getting the right attention. I'm sure you know what I mean. Isn't it a pain when you see the weirdest ads showing up in your feed? Ads for things you know you would never use in a million years, and you start thinking, that person is wasting so much money targeting me for a product or service I will never use. Indeed.com slash clicks.

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Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. What's your team look like personally? Because you socially are amazing on all the platforms across the board. I'm curious what your team looks like. How many people are running it? What does that look like? Yeah, so we have around 25 people on the team. Just on the content team or the business team? On the total team. It may be a little more now, but I have to say it's 25, 30. So...

On the content side, I work with like we have a producer on the video side. I'd be like the creative director. And then we have three long-form editors, three short-form editors, and

And so that allows us to do one long-form YouTube video per week, two IG Reels per day, two YouTube Shorts a day, two TikToks a day. That's kind of that whole department. It's like the video side of content. On the written side, I have like a social writer I'm writing, and then I have a newsletter writer. So that's the whole written side of the business. And then we have operations, probably eight people on the sales side, 10 people on founder success, and...

And then I have a chief of staff who's my sister. Yeah. Something like that. Okay. Very cool. So for you, um, walks through your personal strategy, you're doing social, you, you run paid ads as well. You know, social. No. So the story there quick is like, I actually really don't know how to run paid ads to be honest with you. Um,

from being in the cannabis industry for that long, you can't run ads because the schedule one drug in the U S and I didn't realize like we had just, you know, built that business all organically over the years. That was just kind of what you had to do. Um, when I started to take a look at, you know, building my own brand and using this for founder, I realized that this was kind of a superpower because I just sharpened that sword so many times by publishing like 38,000 pieces of organic content over a decade that I was like, okay, shit. Like this is, this, this actually really does work for, um, other brands and my personal brand. Um,

it can work for others brands. Um, and, uh, yeah. And my belief is kind of when you have a superpower, when you have an edge, like exploit that to the fullest degree possible. So I'm definitely not opposed to ads or anything like that. Uh, but anytime I've looked at, you know, should we run ads or should we post another YouTube video per week? It's like, let's do that YouTube video another week. Or, you know, should we do ads or should we, you know, ramp up Instagram in this way? It's like, let's just do that for now. So we haven't, I don't think maxed

out on organic to the point where I'd moved to ads yet, but definitely not opposed to it. So fascinating. My world's the opposite. We're very, you know, obviously funnel driven, paid advertising driven. Everything we do is through that lens. And so we default the other side where it's like, okay, how do we spend a million dollars this month?

And we can track it. We see the numbers. Everything's in the funnel, you know, and the organic side we're posting. But we don't have definitely as good of a strategy or consistency in that, right? So I'm curious for you. This is me just like asking for myself, honestly, more so is just like,

Because obviously you're posting organically, you're pushing to a thing, but not – the post you're always pushing, you have it in the bio. Like just what's the strategy and like from – like in a typical month, like how many leads are coming from each platform or things like that just so I can understand what organic done really well can look like. You know what I mean? So I'll summarize it as best I can. So you have the core, say, five platforms, right? X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.

across those platforms you're driving like this ocean of attention essentially from maxing out the highest quality content you can possibly put and maxing out the quantity that you can that each platform can kind of take not in a day not in a week but like what that platform can take like over the next decade to build a sustainable brand that you don't just burn out your audience um and so you know as an example i think you know instagram can take a couple posts per day youtube up to three long from a week but we just do one per week um

And so in each of those pieces of content across all of the different platforms, you can put obviously call to actions in these pieces of content. Now, the wrong way to do call to actions is first off to do none at all. The second thing is then to do them where you're driving people right to your product. Again, I think that over time that could work for six months. But when you're talking about building something and during for a decade or two,

it starts to just burn people out because they just feel like you're just constantly selling them, constantly selling your shit and not there to actually just provide value. So across each of those platforms, there are sustainable ways to do CTAs or call to actions. So on Instagram, as an example, that's like your link in bio. The key thing on Instagram right now is many chat. And so the way that I generally like to use CTAs across any of the platforms is always by giving people an insane amount of value, right?

my whole thing and the way that our team works is that we're almost trying to compete on generosity and

Like these days, there's just so much stuff out there that if in a YouTube video or an Instagram reel, you can give away something that most people ideally would think that they would charge like $10,000 or something like that. You make it just such a no brainer for those people that have viewed that piece of content to then go and enter their email and to go get it. So tools like many chat on Instagram, make this easy on X, you know, auto plugs under your posts, make it easy. And there's about 17 of these different areas where,

that you can drive people from your content to these CTAs and then capture their email. So it's about having the right pieces of content with super valuable, customized, basically, you know, lead magnets for those different formats and then driving people from them in the right way to get their email. And then inside of your newsletter, that's where you can be, you know, more,

kind of leaned in on the sales side. Not saying that the whole newsletter strategy is just selling, but you know, on a Saturday newsletters example, I'll tell a story, you know, kind of hook story offer going on. And then, yeah, on the offer end, you can have your couple CTAs, maybe one leading people to a sales call and another leading people to your YouTube or another platform to kind of cross pollinate things.

So that's generally how I look at it in terms of the amount of leads we're driving per month. It's currently around 12,000 across all these platforms per month. And, you know, our top platform right now, surprisingly is YouTube. So what,

with only about 150 K people there, um, it does more than Instagram and LinkedIn combined. And those two have 2 million. Um, so pretty insane. And I just think that right now doesn't have a version of many chat, right? You just push in the description or how do they, yeah. So, um, I, in YouTube, um, the strategy that we use, and this is all subject to change. I don't think necessarily like what we're doing is the best thing ever. That's what's really worked well for now. Um, in a given YouTube video, um,

there's oftentimes we'll talk about something maybe in a video and this one maybe it's like paid ads or organic content and then giving away like a whole checklist of say how to maximize paid ads and organic content right and then drive people to that in the link uh in the description where they can go get it for free when they're in that obviously they enter in their email maybe even their phone number and now you have captured that person

So, yeah, simply in the description is the way that we do it. Yeah, very cool. On Instagram with ManyChat, one problem we had before is we were trying to – we would push people to ManyChat, and then we'd have a whole conversation open up, and there's a whole process we take them down. But then what happens, we would be posting multiple times a week, and then people would be in like 12 conversations at once because your hyperactives respond to everything, and it was just chaos. Yeah.

And so we cut it down to where basically we just have many chat, push one link out and then it stops. I'm curious for you, like how do you run yours or do you have, is yours complex or pretty simple when you're pushing lead magnets through that? Yeah. So I think, uh, how we do many chat right now, um, is we have, uh,

you know, maybe three core CTAs per week that lead to three different sort of flows, three different sort of really generous lead magnets. And then from there, there's probably only a little bit of back and forth, like a few automated messages before then it's picked up by someone that's actually managing those DMs. So that number one, yeah, we don't need to make it too complex. We can kind of just keep it simple. And then two,

there's someone there that can then if there's something wrong or whatever can quickly go and edit the yeah the the sequences and make sure that there's no chaos there so

Yeah, I think the lesson for a lot of people is like when you're trying these things, don't try to over-engineer it too fast. You know, like simplicity is genius, right? And yeah, I think the more simple you can keep things like if you're just getting going a couple platforms, getting the CTAs right on there, really monitoring it and putting in the reps before you just over-engineer it and then just let it loose. And sure enough, you know, issues come up. Yeah.

It's so much. It's funny. I got started in this game before there was any social media at all. Like,

I remember I was in college and Friendster was the social platform of the day. And we were trying to figure out how to hack Friendster to get leads and all sorts of stuff. And then MySpace came after that. And so it's just fascinating just how much now it's like the majority of traffic online is coming from social where when I got started there was zero social at all. It's just fascinating how much it's evolved and shifted to that direction and how many multiple platforms and then, you know,

It's all around five or six platforms now, which is interesting. Now, I've never – in fact, I think one of the first – the first thing we connected with or something was you posted something. It was on Twitter. It must not have been on Twitter because I'm not on Twitter, but it was about Twitter, about the algorithm and stuff like that. And I remember seeing that. I was like, oh, my gosh, this actually makes sense to me. I think that's when I first reached out to you. But for your business, how much –

I'm curious about the written side. How does that work? Like the Twitter and what's the, what's the one that Instagram has now threads? Like, do you guys do a lot over there? Like what's that, that side of the internet look like? Cause I'm not, I'm not playing in that at all. So I'm curious. So at a high level, how I look at all content is what we call like a content waterfall. So,

A content waterfall is essentially like a system that you can use to go and turn like one core piece of content into like 32 or more other pieces of content. And so what this may look like in my business is we would have, say, a YouTube video that we've created a concept for and flushed it all out into, say, 3000 words.

that YouTube script can become obviously a YouTube video. That YouTube video can also be posted onto Spotify and to Apple music, uh, and Apple podcasts. Um, it can then, uh, you know, become one or two newsletters in like say four weeks and an eight weeks, um,

Then on platforms like LinkedIn, like you say, you had five core lessons that you go over in this YouTube video that could become five long form LinkedIn posts. It could also become five long form X threads, as well as maybe another 15 little sentences that you end up using for like 15 tweets as an example. So at a high level, I'm always trying to look to like maximize the content, um,

that I've already put out there so that you quickly are able to be as efficient as possible and get off of a content treadmill, right? Where you're just constantly trying to output stuff. Meanwhile, you've got this amazing bank of stuff you've already made. Just making sure that you've maximized that, right? And I know that, you know, you're even doing this in your book project right now, like leveraging like these thousands of presentations you've done and thousands of podcasts, right? Like how can you leverage all that material versus, you know,

defaulting to new right these days I try to as much as possible default to like what have I already said around this right because I'm pretty sure I've said the things I've done the things I don't want to just default to having to do it all over again I'm just trying to reduce the cognitive load and again just keep things as simple as possible so

Specifically on the written side, we will do four longer form X posts per week. Those tend to drive the most growth. And then about two short form tweets per day, which seems to be like a solid cadence on the platform to get your stuff out there without overdoing it. And then on LinkedIn, we typically do one long form post every morning at 8 a.m. And again, that's what's allowed us to scale to about 800,000 people there.

And, yeah, so I think with all these platforms, it really comes down to,

Number one, like having an amazing hook, a ton of long form value, again, really just trying to compete on generosity. So I think people sometimes overdo like just thinking about growth, growth, growth. Meanwhile, like I think if you can just focus on like, what are all these things that I'd almost be scared to give away, right? Like give it away, right? Inevitably people, if you're making something, they'll still pay you to have it all packaged up to get to know you to for a more seamless delivery for more support. So I don't think you need to worry about giving too much away, at least most people.

And then, so that's like X and that's LinkedIn. And then off of all those posts, about, you know, 100% of the posts on LinkedIn and around 50% of the posts on X drive people then to subscribe to the newsletter. And so, you know, that's just constantly driving people to an audience that we own. That's helped us scale a newsletter to about 200,000 people in the last couple of years. And yeah, it's a power of...

those written platforms. Then in terms of threads, honestly, I don't even understand like, you know, really what's going on with that platform. I don't use it personally, so I don't spend any time on it. Our team posts my stuff that's already on X there. I think we've gotten some good growth, but I have no idea what's going on there. That's always the first day I signed up and like it imports all your Instagram followers. I'm like, I'm a genius. I got, you know, and then reserve for like a week and we post a couple of times and then it all just disappeared and stopped working. Yeah. I still remember those days where people thought it was like taking over the world and like, it's like,

Two months later, Crickets. It's like, I remember Clubhouse had the same thing when it came out. I was actually really excited for that one because I was like, it's exciting seeing a new social platform pop out and then blow up. And then it just dried out so fast. It's always interesting what's going to have longevity in people's minds. Yeah. Do you guys have, outside social platforms, do you pull people to communities? Like, do you have a...

like a school community or you know something like that where you're pulling people separately off platforms besides just newsletter but like an actual community or do you just keep all the communities kind of happening on social yeah so with founder us yeah we have everyone about 800 people in a school community um and uh yeah that's where like all the systems that we have are all nicely organized depending on you know content audience growth all the different platforms and their operating systems and then uh yeah i think similarly i

From my experience, founders, I think, overthink the tech side sometimes. Like, especially when you're getting started, it's just like, just pick something that feels good that maybe someone you admire is using that platform and it feels right to you. Or maybe you've enjoyed using it just on the other side of the equation and as a community member and just get up and going, get running with it. So yeah, most of the tech on what we build is pretty simple. Like, you know, yeah, school is what we use right now for the community. But I think that there's a lot of platforms that are really solid there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to transition a little bit. So one thing that's really fun about watching you as a person in your life and your business and stuff is how, I don't know the right word, how free you feel. Like you are traveling, you are seeing the world, you're doing a bunch of stuff versus most people

you know founders or creators or you know are not and even me included like i you know i'm i'm a homebody it's like being around here but i'm also very very i'm doing a lot of stuff constantly right and you feel like you've created a lot of time freedom for yourself i know you focus on your content as well just curious like like i guess first off your beliefs around that because some people yeah i think you have different beliefs than me and i really look up to what you're doing and you in this way i'm just curious kind of your beliefs around that like

giving yourself more freedom inside of your business. You know what I mean? Yeah. So...

My current philosophy on this, which again is subject to change, is that I think like freedom comes down to four things. Like the freedom to control where you work, what you work on, who you work with, and when you're able to work. Right? And when you have those four W's, like you can do whatever you want basically. And so whenever I'm building a business, like that's the core of it for me is freedom. And I think that's a reason why a lot of founders get into business is to have freedom and to obviously help a lot of people. And so...

When I was younger, my dad's a dentist stuck in Newmarket, Ontario, retiring any day now, hopefully. And when I'd ask him for advice on what I should do in life or what did he wish he had done, trying to understand maybe what some regrets were that I could maybe avoid, nearly every time it would come down to just go travel, just go travel. So I think hearing that

as a young kid you're like and I enjoyed it a lot I was like okay like travel travel right so you know I have a goal in life of going to all 195 countries and I think when you go and you future cast this stuff I think I've only been to like 58 countries or something not that many like not that that many in terms of like you need to make to get to the 195 and so you're like damn I still have a long way to go and I think it becomes really easy with a lot of things in our lives to just say someday and

and you think you'll do these things. And then like, you know, you're 40, you're 50, you're 60, you're 70, and you're still saying someday. And so I try to just default to like, if you're serious about doing these things, like just get after it. Um, and so, you know, I've architected my business in a way that allows me to do that with all the systems that we have with the talent that we have. Um, and oftentimes figure just like, why not? Um,

anytime I travel like I learn a bunch you know we're both writing books right now if I'm writing a book personally like I'd love to be like at some like artist cabin in like southern Italy or something writing it just to be inspired and enjoying myself and yeah I find travel is like you know it fuels my creativity it's inspiring I always tell myself like I should slow down a little bit hence like why I've gotten this home base now in Bali but that said I still find myself wanting to like

just being pulled to the next spot. Like, Oh, I got to go see Russell and Boise. Why not? This'd be fun. And then, Oh, we'll go to Brooklyn and see some friends there. And then I think I'm going to go to Lafayette in Norway and probably end up going through Italy for, yeah, Italy and through Europe through the summer. And so I don't, I just feel called to do it. And I think,

No one's freedom is going to look the same. But I definitely think it's important for founders not to give up on their definition of what freedom looks like. And for some that's wrestling tournaments, you know, you know, and getting back into that and just like going for it, right, which is amazing and inspiring in its own way. And

I think it's just important for us not to give up on that part. Like the same way that we've created these businesses and created so much impact. It's like lean into that in your own life, you know, do it on your own terms and just be okay with being fricking weird. You know, the amount I travel is like really weird probably to a lot of people. And like, that's okay. Like find your weird and double down on it. Yeah. Do you take personality profiles?

I think I have maybe one time. Okay. E-N-T-J or something, I think. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I love, anyway, we have a whole side business that's all about personality profiles. I'd love to learn that stuff from you. I feel like that's a key to like hiring and really dialing it up is really knowing that stuff. And understanding people and humans. But what's cool is one of the tests, the DISC profile, there's a secondary test that usually when you take it, it gives you the results. It's called either values or motivators. It lists like what your core motivators are, like top to bottom.

And, um, I get, I'm, I'm assuming I would bet your, your number one motivator is probably freedom. Uh, we have a lot of guys in our program who I make all of our coaching clients take. So I understand them, but a lot of them like freedoms are number one. That's where they optimize everything in life towards freedom. Um,

uh my number one value in that is uh it's called utility but or roi it's like return investment what's return investment of every situation um which is like why i struggled in school because i couldn't see the roi i was like confused like i don't understand this you know or things like that but if i understand roi like i'll kill myself because i understand this whole thing and so i'm i anyway just assuming ahead of time that that's probably your number one seems like you you uh

You build a lot of what you're doing around that, that, um, that motivator, which is, anyway, it's always fascinating when you see someone in and, uh, how they optimize. Hey everyone. If you're anything like me, you've probably spent more time than you want to admit. Just trying to stay on top of your email. Am I right? I used to wake up, fire up the inbox and boom, I was hit with the wave of random stuff, newsletter, noise, low priority requests, affiliate spam, and somewhere in the chaos, a few messages that actually needed to respond to. It drove me nuts.

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so when I travel, I can't work on the road. I don't know how to do it. Like I, my, my officer, I got three huge monitors. I have to have like tons of monitors, my laptop. It's like this little thing I can't figure it out. Do you able to work while you're traveling? How do you, how do you do that? Yeah, that's the part. I mean, uh,

I mean, I'm not comparing myself to this person at all, but I, I used to think it was like really weird. And then, you know, you look through history, there's actually some like interesting case studies on people that actually, they're actually better on the road. You know, Jordan was famous for saying like, I love away games, like much better, you know, the crowd taunting you, you're in this foreign environment and you're still going to show up and like show them what's, what's up. Um, so for, for me, I think, uh,

I left my house at a pretty young age. So I think there's like something to that probably. Just being more independent. How old were you when you left? Probably around 17, 16. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so, yeah, just kind of like having to figure it out on my own. I remember just like always when I was younger, just like I just wanted to like get away. Like just being able to like travel, travel.

I came up from a really small town. It's kind of boring. I was just like, oh man, there's just so much out there. Can't wait to do it. And so now when I'm an adult, I'm just like seizing it. So in terms of the system though, to get it right, because I am super productive on the road. I think like a few things, like I have a rule as an example, like right when I land in a new spot, I go like straight to the gym.

And like figure out like where like where's the gym where's like these days like a cold bath sauna. I hope it's in the same spot and like just get that rhythm going right away because like health is first. And if I don't have that rhythm down everything kind of like slips from there in terms of my travel approach to it's like what I'd call like slow travel. I'm not generally trying to go to places for like less than a week.

So like I'm about to go to Brooklyn. I could be there for just a week, I'm sure, and hit up all the things I needed to do. But instead I'll go for a month or when I'm going to go to Norway or to Italy, like I'll go for at least a month probably. I was in Japan snowboarding. I didn't just go for a week there. We went for six weeks. So trying to just like slow it down a little bit so you can like rest. You're not just like firing your cortisol at all levels. Hitting everything and then bouncing. Yeah, exactly. And just bouncing around too fast. And it gives me the ability with the business and with other priorities in life just to like

take my time and not feel like I got to just like unpack and then leave to the next spot. So yeah, that's kind of like the philosophy around it. And yeah, in terms of like, you know, I,

I really like the diversity of like work environments. Other people are different that way. I even, I've had like places obviously that I've lived for six months and I've had an insane like work set up that I invest all this money in like this dope desk that has a button that you can like standing desk and these insane screens and all that. And I'm like, I'm just going to go to a cafe, you know? Um, and I like just like a change of scenery cause I, I get a little ADD I think in a spot. Um, and like to just be in a new cafe with a nice new cup of coffee there that I'm trying out and then just like lock in. Um, so yeah,

That's just, I don't know what that is brain-wise, but that's just my productivity formula. That's really cool. Is your team mostly remote? Everyone remote? Everyone's remote, yeah. Okay, that's cool. How about you? When you're most locked in, like you're writing this book right now, what's the ideal scene there? Oh yeah, for me, it's an office with 100 books around me to research and look at and

For me, writing, I have ADD or HD, whatever it is. So if I'm sitting and trying to work, it's hard because I get distracted. So when I'm in a writing zone, I'm literally on a treadmill on my desk walking with headphones on. So I try to stimulate it because the more...

When you have, when you're, it's hard to focus, the more stimulus you have, the easier to focus on one thing, you know? So for me, it's like, I'd be walking, listening and everything. And then I can zone in on like actually writing. And so that's, yeah, these were all written on a treadmill for the most part or some version of that. So that's kind of more so for me.

We were just talking before this too. I'm just curious. You have like all these references of like these like talks you've done and things you've written and presentations you've done or podcasts you've done, like thousands of these things, right? When you like lock in around a given book, maybe you've like determined the table of contents, I'd assume, at the given part. How are you like synthesizing that?

those references into like an organized way yeah like i'm kind of doing this right now i'm like do i print all this stuff out and like paste it on walls and like a beautiful mind or like what do you do here exactly and i'm like gradually getting into a flow but i find myself wandering and like sometimes it's just so much stuff i might organize chaos so so it's um uh i do start the table contents but it changes everything

I could rewrite table contents almost every day. Cause as you're going through, you're like, ah, it doesn't make sense anymore. And they keep going in. So like, that's, it's a guide, but, but the table contents from like the first draft to like the end is so fun. I go back to the first minute. What was I thinking? This was, but you don't know, at least for me, I don't know. It's like getting into the deep work. And, um, uh, my favorite thing about writing is,

Well, there's the joke that reading a book is like writing a book except for the book's trying to kill you, right? It's a painful... It's a lot of work. But my favorite part about it is when you're in the deep work of writing, all these weird connections show up that don't show up otherwise. I think that's why I'm not a big fan of people that write AI books or things like that because like...

all my books, like the most profound things didn't come from me knowing it and writing a book. It came along while I was writing the book, trying to connect, like, why does this work? And all of a sudden, because you're so deep in it with so many things, like these things appear, right? And so the book keeps rewriting itself as you're moving through it because these, these things are showing up that, that you don't get unless you're, you're that deep into it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm just curious, one last thing on the process is like when you have your table of contents, right? Or,

or maybe you've written the first manuscript, do you involve people at certain stages of the book? So I know people as an example that have like a table of contents nailed down and then they're going to go and talk to say,

10 beta readers or 10 founders in their audience or whatever and get them to look at it and get some live feedback on it to kind of sculpt it more. And then people that also will do that on a manuscript maybe once, maybe even twice, getting like 10 beta readers each time to kind of help them get it right and see where people are blocked. Like what's your approach there? So a little bit. The one thing I've noticed is for me, when I figure out kind of table contents in the order, I've tried to write a book prior, like...

before I ended up doing that both times with dot com secrets, expert secrets, I ended up deleting the entire book and,

Um, and then I ran an event. So I like brought in my top level people. And for two days sat in a room and I just like taught through all this stuff. And that helped me to connect because a lot of times you have a table of contents and you're explaining something and you're halfway through your office and you're like, you guys don't understand this because you don't have context. I'm like, crap, but I'm writing. You forget that. But when you're in a room, people are looking at me like, what are you talking about? And so for me, before every book, I did an event prior to, to actually doing the work. And that was my, my testing of like the ideas and the concepts and making sure that,

that like the sequential order was correct because again, you get the weird look when they have no idea what you're talking about. Then from there I go and for me, writing is such a, they always say writing is like, it's personally, you're by yourself and then the expressions you give it to people. And so there's always this weird fear of giving it to people. So for me, I've finished the manuscript all the way through before I let anyone in and then I put it into Google Docs and then I have people come that I trust

and I have them read not for like... Not like an editor would read. Like, I don't want you to edit anything, but I want you just...

conceptually like and so i'll have people i know or trust probably i usually between five and ten people and have them read through the google doc and i i don't want them to edit but i want the comments so it's like commenting like this doesn't make sense or this is confusing you're like remember that time you told a story about this wouldn't that be better here like i'm looking for concept editing and so a dozen people just go through concept editing which is really fun and from there i'm like oh i forgot about this yeah that doesn't make any sense or that that part was boring probably could cut that

And then from there I go back, clean up the draft, and then I get it to an editor to start editing. So that's how, that's why I've done it. And the average book took you how long to write? At least a year. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like three or four years of thinking and then a year doing the work. And it's funny because when I shifted to Hay House, I signed the contract for Traffic Secrets and they sent me – I didn't read the contract. I just signed it. And they sent me an advance, this check. I was so confused. I was like, what's this for? They're like, oh, well, most people when they write a book, they take a year off to write the book. And that's so you can live while you're writing. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Right?

because I'm still running ClickFunnels and you know so yeah there's no way it's a year but it's not like a writer's year where it's a full year you know it's like I'm doing this with one or two hours a day for for a year so it's tricky that balance um yeah I think I'm on manuscript like six or seven now and I feel like I'm in that like learning phase of like I'm sure every book after this will be a little bit easier but that first one I'm like man this thing is this is something yeah how long ago did you start it

It's probably almost like two and a half years ago. Now I feel like just throwing out different versions because I'm like, oh, this isn't quite, I think, what it needs to be. And it's been useful. I feel like now I have a really good editor that's a great soundboard. And so it's more of a team thing attacking this beast versus just me in a dark room trying to figure it out and going, oh, no, no, no, that's not it. That's cool. What was the thing that made you decide to write the book? What was the pivotal point where you're like, I'm going to do this. I'm actually going to do it. Maybe I thought about it, but I'm going to actually write this book.

Well, I mean, the first part, it's similar to like the bucket list of travel. It's like, I just want to write a book before I die. So this is something I should do and why not do it now? I felt like a good time just to get after it. And then from there, I think this like idea of like founder led brands are like largely misunderstood. The kind of stuff that we hear all the time, like, oh, don't want to TikTok dance or don't want to be famous or these things. And it's like, I don't think people totally get it. So I wanted to kind of, yeah.

Is that the name of the book, right? Yeah. Founder-led brands. Yeah. At least that's the running concept. So we'll see where it ends up. But yeah, just trying to peel back the onion a bit there and give people like the details as to why this is a thing, why it's important to have your own media company and the systems that make it all sustainable and profitable. Yeah. Very cool.

Two and a half years. Do you know when's your plan? Do you have a pub date? This year. No, this year it's happening. Yeah, it's being self-published, so no one's really telling me what to do. No one's yelling at you. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Well, I'm excited to read it and to have it out.

One of the best feelings I've ever felt in my entire life so far is when you get the first box of books and you open them and you get a hold of it the first time, it's like there's something magical about that the very first time. I can't believe this is – It's done. I wrote a book. This is insane. Yeah, I'm really excited for it. So what's the future for you? Where are you going from here? What's the plans with your business? Where are you trying to get to? Yeah, so on the business side, the dream there is to –

you know, create the greatest founder community of the 21st century. I see an opportunity kind of like on the brand side, what, you know, Nike did for athletes in the seventies, Apple did for creatives in the eighties is what like I'm trying to do for founders in the twenties, create this like really aspirational, beautiful, tasteful, inspiring brand that helps founders build their own really special brands and

And so, you know, we have dreams of opening a retreat center in the Dolomites in Italy, which is like my favorite place in the world. You know, was there mountain biking last year for a couple of months. We'll be there snowboarding this year. I just have this idea of kind of bringing amazing founders together for peak experiences together.

And so, yeah, just trying to like lean into the community, really just listen to them. I'm really patient with this. Like I'm running something I'm going to run till I die. And that was the whole genesis of even creating FounderOS in the first place. So we're just being patient. We're being, you know, really intentional about it, building an amazing community, helping founders with the systems that they're asking us for, and really just trying to create the greatest founder content out there for the specific stuff that we do, which is largely around like systems and founder-led brands.

And then on a personal level, yeah, looking to finally get a home base for real this year. So hopefully, you know, stay in Bali a little longer than like five months. Maybe in Boise, maybe we're going to move here. Yeah, maybe Boise, you know, exactly. And yeah, just keep traveling, get this book out, keep putting great content out across platforms and meeting other great folks like yourself and just having fun. I think I've

I've you know my 20s a lot of that was like a lot of like a grind at times on the business side and now you know with the systems that we have and with founder OS and herb all running on autopilot I feel like it's more of a time just to you know enjoy things when you know I look back I'm sure in my 80s I would just tell myself like hey dude it's gonna be all right like just have some fun yeah so trying to lean into that more it's cool how about you what's your big good

What's your one main thing, big domino this year? The main thing this year, um, I'm building an event center and a museum next door here. Uh, I collect old books and so we're going to be building a huge, uh, thing. And I have really longterm, like my legacy visions all going to be happening out of what we're building over there. And we're almost, almost a spot. We have everything done except for the last approvals from the city. And then we can start building it. And by this time next year, we'll have, um, yeah, I'll have an amazing place. People come around the world. We've got, uh,

Um, last three years, so about over 18,000 books, like rare manuscripts and things like, uh, most of my money I've invested back into old books. And so it's been cool to have a chance to show everybody what, you know, the collection, but then the goal with it is to be something so exciting that the greatest minds in the world would be willing to fly, uh,

to Boise, Idaho, not direct to get here, to hang out, to come in and teach me. And so I can learn from the smartest people in the world and then capture it and share it with the world. And so that's kind of my, what I'm working on, which is one last thing on that. I'm curious, like all these books you've gotten and that you've read. And I know this is like a real obsession on your side from following you for some time. What's like that one secret you feel like that a lot of these guys kind of talk about that's like,

at a core that a lot of people maybe don't think about or is a little more non-obvious or novel. Yeah, it's interesting. I think the problem is people do talk about it, but they miss the point of it. But you look at the common thread amongst the people I'm collecting, it's like from, you know, 1880s to 1920s, 30s, like that window. And it's called the New Thought Movement. These people were all

They were all talking about the subconscious mind. And before we knew what it was or before we had any research or data or whatever, and what they were doing and figuring out back then, it's weird because nowadays we can prove it. There's ways to prove all that kind of stuff. But almost it's like nobody...

I don't know, like what they were doing is actually more efficient and more effective than what we're doing today, even though we know more now. And so I actually just bought subconscious.com and like, we're going to go really deep into that. Cause like, that's the work that when people understand, like the rewiring of your subconscious mind is, I think the secret to happiness, to success, to fulfillment, to all the things. That's what my book's about is just like,

you know, a lot of times people want success and they, the question obviously like what is success? I'm like, well, I think success is two things. It's like it's achievement, but it's also fulfillment. And there's two separate things. And like, how do you get both of those? How do you find happiness? How do you overcome the things or like all those things come back to like understanding your subconscious mind and all these authors back then they were all talking about hitting for different areas, different aspects, and they didn't know it. They were just testing things and finding things out and discovering the writing books about it. Cause they're kind of freaking out. Like, like,

Like we just did this thing. Look how this works. And so, yeah, that's what's really fascinating to me is like kind of coming back into that. Even though people talk about nowadays, I don't feel like they, I still don't feel like as the, as the, like the world really understands it. And is there one core practice that you have that like really helps you program your subconscious mind for your core goals, values, all that? Um, it's not such one core practice. I'm a process guy. So there's a couple of things, but a lot of it is just, is understanding, um,

Like what most people talk about is, is our thoughts, which is a big piece of it. But like the feelings are actually the key because your feelings are like the response of your subconscious mind to whatever's happening. And so I was like thinking, thinking, thinking versus like stopping, like understanding feelings about how you feel about all the different things. Cause that's like the, the treasure map of like,

You know, like I see all the time with coaching entrepreneurs, like people come and they consciously make a decision. I'm going to make, I'm going to hit a two comma club board. I'm going to make money. I'm going to, or I'm going to lose weight. Or they, they have these conscious things. Right. And then, uh, and they start racing towards it. And then all these things are blocking them and they can't figure out why. Whereas reality, if you stop at the very beginning, when you ask the question, it's like, what are you actually feeling? And like a lot of times they're consciously excited, but then there's like,

this gut feeling hurting or something like it's physically in the body and like finding the feelings and then reverse engineer that as like what's the subconscious actually believe because if you can like subconscious will you actually subconsciously believe will be will be the thing that actually ends up happening not what you consciously want and so it's like make the subconscious so much stronger than the consciousness like when you understand that you consciously find it and then rewire that then it then the path becomes easy it's why some people they start business and

Three months in there, they've made a million dollars and other people will spend 20 years and they can't figure out how to make their first dollar. It's just like, it's not the skill set. It's not consciously desiring it. It's like their subconscious beliefs that they were, that they've gained over a lifetime, right? From their parents or from the TV or from radio or music or like all the different things. And so it, the things that are hard become really easy when you just learn how to change that. So anyway, it's nerdy and fun. No, I wouldn't guess that. No, it's something that's big for me too. It is like, yeah.

I oftentimes like before I go to bed, like read like a one pager that I've made for myself around like my like dream life and dream sort of scene and kind of really feel into it and then go to sleep at night. And so, yeah, all about this kind of stuff. I think it's interesting. It's so much fun. Yeah. Okay. My last question for you is, is there a story of someone in your community that you've been involved in their journey that you're super proud of or excited or just, just to kind of show the fruit of, of what you guys are doing right now? Yeah. Um,

We had a gentleman named Sammy that had come to us. He had previously exited the company and was now working on a new idea, but it was still kind of no offer around it, no really idea what he was going to build per se, just a rough idea. He joined FounderOS. We went and helped him with his offer. So yeah, his name is Sammy Hassan, and his idea was to create this company called DevSignal.

which is all around helping tech companies find amazing engineers. So we helped him formulate the offer around that. He started creating content while reluctant at first started seeing like it was picking up, doing well. And it was driving a lot of companies to go and hire the engineers that he was training at DevSignal. Fast forward, just six months later, his company was actually acquired for around $600,000 by a firm that had actually found him through the audience that he had built.

So, yeah, between like the offer systems that we'd gone over, some of the content and audience growth systems were like a small part in that journey that Sammy was able to find success with. So, yeah, there's stories like that. And then other stories from folks like Leon, who has a couple of kids and was building a successful business and agency at the time, but hardly had any time to actually go and spend time.

with his kids. And so from putting in a bunch of systems across hiring people, content ops, you know, was able to move from around 50 hours a week of work, kind of like I was working a decade ago to just a few hours a day and be able to enjoy like amazing summer vacations and such with his family. So yeah, those are the kinds of things I find most rewarding. So cool. I'm curious if you feel the same way, but it's like,

When you have your own success, it feels great. But then like you pass that on to somebody else and they have success, it feels like a thousand times better, you know? I guess why we all get addicted to this game because it's just like, yeah, it's exponential because it's not just your success. It's all these other people's. Yeah. No, I tell people in the community and others like we have in our Slack channel called Founder Wins.

And I know that every single person that works at FounderWise, like the highlight of their day is when there's just like an awesome, could be a message someone got or a post that was in school or a message on social media, whatever about a founder. Yeah, having anything from a massive win that they just closed some huge deal or a smaller win that they just got, you know, another 10, 20 hours of their week back.

Um, so yeah, I think we're, we're both united in that, like nothing better than just seeing founders win and, and, and get joy in their life. Yeah. So cool. Awesome, man. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming out. Uh, for those of my followers who know yet, where's the best place for them to go plug in and see all the stuff you're doing? Yeah. You can just, uh, find me Matt gray on any platform, uh, YouTube X, LinkedIn, Instagram, all that. And, uh, founder us at founder os.com. Very cool. Well, thank you, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. And, uh, we'll see you guys on the next episode. Let's do it.

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