This Sales Funnel Gap is Killing Your Conversions (Here’s the Fix) | #Marketing - Ep. 29
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Do you have a funnel but it's not converting? The problem 99.9% of the time is that your funnel is good but you suck at selling. If you want to learn how to sell so your funnels will actually convert, then get a ticket to my next Selling Online event by going to sellingonline.com slash podcast. That's sellingonline.com slash podcast. This is the Russell Brunson Show.

What's up everybody, this is Russell. Welcome back to the show. Most of you guys are probably listening to this, but if you can see me right now, I only have one arm, which may seem like a negative thing other than the fact that in two days from now, I'm getting my other bicep

operated on and I'll have no arms. And so right now I am so grateful in my life that I have one arm that's actually functioning, knowing that soon I'll have zero arms. So a backstory for those who don't know, Russ interned a couple of weeks ago. I tore both my biceps. And so they did the first surgery last week. Now the second, anyway, long story short, it's going to be a weird next three or four weeks where I literally will have both my arms in casts. And so it's going to force me to do less and

think more and talk more. And so it's kind of fun. I'm recording more podcast episodes, more interviews, things like that, but also strategically spent because I literally can't type. Right now I can type with one hand and it's so much slower, but soon I'll be typing with my nose or else having my team type for me. But it's going to be kind of interesting season. So I'll have a chance to start thinking more strategically as opposed to tactically doing stuff. So I'm really looking forward to that.

A lot of you guys who have ever gone on vacation or something, it gives you that time a lot of times to break away where you start thinking about things differently. So anyway, just kind of catching up on some stuff like that that I think is interesting. Today's episode, I wanted to talk about funnels. I don't know about you, but it's still my favorite topic. I still want to talk about these all the time. And a lot of times recently I talk more about personal development and –

traffic generation, other things like that. Um, but I just want to go deeper back into funnels for a lot of reasons. Number one, it's still my favorite topic. Uh, but number two, one of my close friends, Jake Leslie has been our core lead funnel builder for, um, I don't even know, five, six, seven years. Um,

He asked a really interesting question, some of his clients he's working with. And so I'm actually going to play his Voxer so you guys can hear it to hear what his question was. And I'm going to dive into this because it's definitely a trend that we see a lot of people hitting into. So let me play the Voxer message real quick and then after that, I'll give you some of my thoughts. What's up? Hey, I have a question for you.

And maybe I'm abusing my powers of just knowing Russell Brunson, but I just have a very honest question and it's driving me nuts and I'm seeing it over and over again. It drives me crazy. So I would love to hear what Rusty Brunson has to say about it. So I'm talking to a lot of different people, obviously in the funnel space and like,

A lot of these people have funnels, a lot of them have products, a lot of them have things they just obviously want to go faster. They want to be like Russell. They want to do this. They want to do that. They want to move faster, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what I'm noticing is so many freaking people have good front ends and then they have high ticketed products, but they don't have that core $297, $97 offer.

I'm curious where you've talked about that before, or if you want to break it down, obviously don't expect you to, but it's so interesting how they get people to come in for free off of lead magnets, and then they're just going to assume that, oh yeah, now they're going to pay $2,000 for this thing. So the Ascension is just this crazy leap

It's baffling me. I thought most people would struggle on the front end side, which I do see. They just don't have lead magnets. They're feeding. They're not throwing in the coal to fire. They're just throwing random people into these higher priced things.

There's a ton of people that just aren't missing or that are missing that gap of a 97 or 297 or just something in the middle to like indoctrinate them into who they are, you know, and like why they should be paying a higher premium. It's just like, oh, pay me. It's like, who the freak are you? I don't even know who you are.

But so many people feel like they don't need to build that indoctrination. And it's, it's driving me nuts. It's like, dude, you have to have this piece. Like they don't, they're not just going to throw $1,500 at you. Like I opted in for free and then it's like, boom, pay 1,500. Like, are you crazy? But so many people do that. Anyway, I don't know where you've taught that before, but I would love to hear the book of Brunson on that particular piece. Cause it's becoming annoying more and more.

why a lot of people are getting frustrated because it's like, oh, this doesn't like funnels don't work because that didn't work. It's like, no, man, you just like that's a horrible structure. That's just there. You didn't do that part right. Let's do it right. Okay. So what is happening?

First off, I want to have so many different angles, different directions I can take this. But the first one I want to spend a little time on because last week we had a really cool opportunity. We're filming a course for Secrets of Success. And basically, we got an unpublished manuscript from Napoleon Hill where he was teaching an advertising course in 1917. And I had Heath Wilcock and Sean Vossler come out here. We spent like five hours talking.

going deep into the books and talking about it and brainstorming. And then, and one of the key principles we talked about was the difference in people who have longevity in this business versus those who are like a spot in the pan, right? Who had a little success and it all crashes down to the ground. And the big difference was the people who have been around for a long time are people who

who not only understand, but they study the fundamentals of business, of marketing and advertising. Um, I've been in this game now almost 25 years in the 25 years I've played this game, the number of gurus who have come and gone in this space. Um, I want to build the timeline. Nobody would believe me. Um, I think I can mention like a top of people. I can remember that started when I got started. There's probably two or maybe three who are still relevant today. Um,

And so most people don't have longevity. And the reason why, just so you're fully, like, it's not that I'm smarter or better. The reason why for me is I geeked out on understanding the psychology behind why these things actually work. I got obsessed with Dan Kennedy and direct mail and reading old books and all these things. And I got really solid in the foundation where most people, what they do is they see the tactics of the day. They master the tactics and they have huge wins. They make a lot of money, too much money for one human being to handle in a very short period of time. And then something shifts in the market, the algorithm or whatever, and then they lose it all overnight.

Like that's literally the thing. I've had a chance to watch over 25 years of doing this, probably four or five big business cycles in every single cycle. There's a new group of entrepreneurs and marketers who fall off the face of the planet and I've never seen them come back again. And so the reason like the difference is that the people who focus on the tactical thing of the day don't surpass when times get hard. I think there's a Warren Buffett quote. It says like you can tell –

What it was like when the water, when the tide goes out, you can see he's been swimming naked the whole time. That's kind of what it is. When things are easy, everyone's having success. Everyone's making money. And then the tide goes out and that's when most people fall apart. And so, um, a lot of what Jake's asking is because people don't understand the deeper psychology behind what is at play, like why funnels actually work. Right.

they come in and they see a hack, they see a tactic and they do that and it works for them. And then they, they just stopped learning. They're like, literally like, okay, cool. I got a thing. Like, I'm just going to keep running this play for as long as I can. You don't understand like the place changed. The strategy doesn't, the tactical parts of the plays do change. And so in his example, a lot of people are doing like free lead magnet to a call, right? And that model for probably five or six years has worked really, really well in and of itself.

Right. And the reason why is because advertising was cheap. You can get a lead very cheap and call them on the phone. And even though, um, because the advertising costs to acquire the customer, so inexpensive, you could, you know, you could,

You can only close one out of 20 people and you're still profitable, right? Like there, there was the inefficiencies there in the advertising that made it possible. Then what happens? Advertising costs go up, things get more expensive, everything starts shifting. And also now it's like, it's not working anymore. Like, and the, the reality is the metrics are still the same other than, you know, before you could close one out of 20, but now because the cost of 10 X or 30 X or 50 X, you got to close one out of three or else you're not profitable. And they can't close one out. Then you also, it's like the business upside down. It's not working. Why?

It's because they're missing the fundamental strategies behind the scenes of why this actually works. I'm working on my co-author book with Dan Kennedy. And it's funny. I've been anti-AI tools up until just recently when I lost my left arm. And I was like, I can't write right now, so let me just do some research stuff. So what I was doing is I was uploading – I was trying ChatGBT, the new –

the $200 a month version. I tried manias. I'm trying different ones. And so I've been uploading tons of stuff to have it analyzed for me. So what was cool was like, I had the Dan, the book, Dan and I writing together. So I uploaded all the chapters. He's written chapters. I've written the outline. And then I started taking all of my, uh, my interviews, Dan, I've interviewed Dan like 50 times in the last three years. I say, upload all the interviews and everything. And I was like, Hey, here's the introduction. I'm like, based on this, what other stories that I've, the dance told in past that we can weave in. So it started like,

like pulling all these stories out that I'd forgotten about. They're like, oh my gosh, this is a great one and a great one. And so the introduction for mine and Dan's book, uh, the book, I don't know exactly what it's going to be called, but the working title right now is, uh, whoever can spend the most money to acquire customer wins, right? Anyway, the story that it pulled out was from the very first interview I did with Dan, uh, during FHL, I think it was 2020.

It was right after, it was the first event after COVID. Everyone thought Dan was dead. We bought his company. He came and spoke and it was like one of the coolest moments of Funnel Hacking Live, right? And in that interview, I asked him that question about whoever spends the most money to acquire customer wins. And the story he told was really fascinating. He talked about,

way back in the day, um, I guess the way the TV cycles work, right? Like the morning would start at like seven AM, whatever. And then they'd have TV happening all the way till Johnny Carson. And then Johnny Carson was over. They assumed everyone went to bed. So then TV just cut off. It was off air all night long. And so Dan and whoever they'd started going, these TV companies like, Hey, can we buy the, the after hour time block? We buy all the other stuff. And

And the first thing, why would you want to buy it? No, like everyone went to bed after Carson. There's nobody watching TV and they're like, well, it's okay. We just want to buy it. So they start selling to him for like 200 bucks, like eight hours of dead airtime. Right. So they're buying this thing at 200 bucks and, um, they started making a ton of money. Like they were making crazy amounts of money. Right. Because it was $200 for eight hours of media time. And, um, they,

they only get one or two sale and it broke even after that was all profit. Right. So it was just like the heyday. Uh, and they said over time they started realizing like these guys keep rebuying these things. Maybe they're, you know, the other people start asking, they can advertise. And it went from, uh, from like, you know, $200 for an eight hour window to, you know, he said, fast forward five years, it was $20,000 for a 30 minute spot.

Because, you know, more people wanted it, it was more valuable. And all of a sudden now, you know, before you could spend $200, you make two sales, you're breaking everything out, there's profit, you got an eight hour runway. Today now it's like, oh, because everyone else wants this, you've got $20,000 and you only get 30 minutes. Now the numbers of your business change radically, right? And so Dan said that we had to become good at like understanding whoever can spend the most money to acquire customer wins. It was like, we had to make more money quicker. So that's the next,

Now instead of just selling the product off of our TV time, now we had to start having upsells and downsells, right? Not only that, then we had to like send them to a next higher ticket thing afterwards. Not only that is then if they didn't buy our stuff, you know, we still need to make money. So then we would sell that name to like 10 other people with similar products. Maybe they could sell something, but we got to sell the name for $10 to each different person. So we made an extra $50 by selling the name, like all these different things to monetize the money, right?

these are the core strategies, the fundamentals we're talking about, right? And again, you come back to a business where somebody, all they know is Facebook ads are cheap. They're spending $200 for eight hours of airtime. And so the business is easy, but when it shifts, it gets harder. Okay. And so these are some of the things I'm thinking about, but then the answer is when I actually boxed Jake Vadek back after that, I said, you know, I said, well, in the book of Brunson chapter six, verse two, there's this thing called a value ladder, right? And it's funny because I started teaching the value ladder, um,

probably 20 years ago. I think it was a version, Dan Kennedy has like this ladder concept he talks about, but I don't think, for some reason in my head, when he explained it and I started seeing it and started doing it, I pictured it more like the value ladder that's inside the dot-com secrets book. If you haven't read it yet, go back and read that book. That's the core fundamental thing, right? But the core concept behind the value ladder is that when somebody comes into your world, you ascend them through different offers, okay? And so what happens is the value,

And in the book, I like different things. I say, you know, for example, like the very first time I met my wife, right? I didn't walk up to her the very first time, like, Colette, you were gorgeous. We should get married and have some babies. Like, what would she have done? She would have slapped me in the face, like, what are you talking about? You're a pervert or whatever. You know, like that would have ended the date right there, right? We don't go to the top of the value ladder. So what a value ladder looks like, if you, I'm going to draw with my finger, but most of you guys are listening to this. On the left-hand side, there's an axis and the bottom is an axis, right? So the left-hand side, we're going to write price, right?

You know, and so the higher up is a higher price. The bottom is lower price. And then the bottom will write value. So when it's really close to the left hand, like axis there, there's little value, little price. But as you move forward, right, as you increase the value, it increases the price and goes up as you move through the graph. Does that make sense?

If not, go buy the book, come on. Or just go to Google and type in Russell Brunson value ladder and you'll see the doodles in Google Images, right? But there's this value ladder, right? If you've been following me for any amount of time, you know, I always talk about as you're growing and scaling your company, the most important thing is finding the who, not the how. Who is the person that can help you drive more traffic? Who is the person that could be your CEO? Who is the person that could build your funnels? Understanding the who will dramatically speed up the growing and the scaling of your company. Now, the best place to find the who's who can help you with your vision is Indeed.

When it comes to hiring the right who's, Indeed is all you need. Indeed gives you the ability to stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other sites because Indeed's got a sponsored job listing where you can stand out in front of your dream hires. With these sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates. That means your funnel builder is going to see it. That means the person driving traffic to your funnels is going to see it. It means your new CEO or CMO or whatever you're looking for is going to see the exact ad for your business as soon as they open up

Indeed. And that makes a huge difference. In fact, according to Indeed, data sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. One of the things I love about Indeed is it makes hiring so fast. You can post the job and within minutes, you're getting applications who are coming in looking to become the who inside of your business.

Prior to that, I was often posting my help wanted ads on Facebook and Instagram and then getting tons and tons of responses from unqualified people who had no idea what they were doing. Whereas Indeed, again, they're only being seen by the exact person I'm looking to hire. Now with Indeed sponsored jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions. There's no long-term contracts. You only pay for results.

They may be wondering how fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been talking to you so far, 23 hires were made on Indeed across the Indeed network. So there's no longer need to wait any longer. You can speed up your hiring right now by going to Indeed. And listeners of the show get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your job more visible by going to Indeed.com slash clicks. Just go to Indeed.com slash C-L-I-C-K-S right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

Indeed.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions apply. Are you hiring? Indeed is all you need.

Do you ever get one of those ads that makes you go, why am I even seeing this? Not long ago, I kept getting served ads for these super fancy chef grade pots and pans, like premium artisan cookware. And I'm sitting here thinking, you guys, I barely even know how to boil water properly. I'm more of a protein bar and a podcast guy. Now I'm not knocking the product. It just wasn't meant for me. And the real problem is that the company probably paid good money to show me that ad. And that's why I always tell marketers that relevance is everything. And that's where LinkedIn ads comes in.

This isn't your average ad platform. It's a network of over a billion professionals and targeting options are insane. You can target the exact buyers by job title, industry, company size, role, seniority, even skills and company revenue. That means your message gets in front of the right people, not someone who thinks that instant ramen is gourmet dining.

Now, if you're serious about B2B marketing and not just throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping it'll stick, then you've got to be on LinkedIn. And here's the best part. LinkedIn will give you $100 credit on your next campaign, so you can see it in action. Just go to linkedin.com slash clicks. That's linkedin.com slash C-L-I-C-K-S. Terms and conditions apply. Only on LinkedIn ads.

And so what happens is ideally the thing at the back is what we want, right? Like I want, I wanted to marry my wife and a bunch of kids with her. That was like, that's the end goal. That's the, the extreme value, right? I'm going to get, get the most value from her. It's going to be the most expensive thing, but it's the best, right? Just like for you guys, like if you were like,

honestly, the way that I could serve you the best as a client is not for you to go buy a book. Like it's a great thing, right? The way I could serve you the best is have you actually come here to Boise in my offices and I just built the entire funnel for you, right? Like that'd be the best for me to actually do that. Like realistically this point in our career and our team and everything would be like, we need to charge you a million dollars up front plus a percentage of royalties on that funnel for the rest of its life, right? And so that's what it takes. But if I came up to you on the street, I'm like, hey, my name is Russell Brunson.

I know I look like I'm 11 years old, but this is the deal. Um, I have this, uh, this thing where if you give me a million dollars, I will build a sales funnel for you. Plus I want a percentage of all the sales you ever make from that. Will you give me a million dollars? Like that's the equivalent of me walking up to my wife day. Number one, like we should go have babies. Like that's the same thing, right? It's like most people are going to say no, right? If they don't say no, maybe you should be, you know, there there's other issues there probably. So the

That's what a lot of people are doing in business. That's what Jake was talking about. People are getting a lead. They call them on the phone like, hey, do you want to buy my $1,500 or $15,000 or whatever the thing is, right? They're trying to give somebody a high price with a lot of value without proving the value first, right?

So how does it work in the real world? Okay. I got back to my wife. I see her. I'm like, man, man, she's cute. First thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go talk to her, right? The, the, the talking to the spouse, number one is like, that's the first tier of the value ladder, right? We have a conversation. What's happening is there's no price, right? Other than her time, she's spending a little time with me. We're having a conversation and really quick. She's going to figure out something like, did I receive value from this interaction? If I, if she receives value from this interaction, we talk for 15 minutes, whatever. I'm like, Hey, would you want to go out someday?

Can I'm moving her up the value ladder. Now she did not give value at that step in the interaction. She's like, Oh, let me look at my calendar. I'll get back to you. And she's going to, she's going to ghost me after that. Right? Like, cause I didn't provide value at the lowest tier, but if I did provide value, she's like, man, this, I really enjoyed this relationship. That talk was awesome. I love to go out with this person again. She'll say yes. And I move up a tier in the value ladder. Right? So now it's happening now. Um,

the value went up and then for me now there's a price. I'm going to take her on a date. It's going to cost me a couple hundred bucks. We're going to go out to dinner. We're going to go on a walk. We're going to go to a movie, whatever that thing is. Right. And I'm going to go on that date. And then that tier in the value ladder, we're in this experience together and we're both trying to figure out like, are we getting value from this interaction?

If somebody, if I got value for my wife and she gives value for me, right? That first date's great. Then I might say, hey, I want to go on another date with you, right? If we both decide, then we move up to the next tier in the value ladder, right? And eventually I'm going to go in, I'm going to go for a kiss. And, um, you know, if I haven't given value, then she's going to walk away. If she has gotten value, then she's going to kiss me back. Right? And then if the kiss was good and it's like, that was valuable, then I want the net. And so we start moving through this value ladder. Well, eventually,

I dropped down on a knee and I proposed. And she's like, yes, I would love to. It's not scary at that point, right? Now, sure, you can, again, you can go and if you walked up to 100 people on the street and propose, you could probably get one or two people to say yes to your marriage proposal. Like, it's a thing. There's gonna be people who are like,

yeah, I got no other options. Let's do it. Right. And that's literally what people like Jake's talking about are doing on their business right now. Like they're going from zero value to selling top tier of the value ladder. And the only people who are coming in typically are people who are insane. They are crazy. They're not going to be the best clients. Um, they're not going to understand you, your culture, anything. And so it's all these things that happen, right? Higher refund rates, lower satisfaction rates, and all these things happen. Right. But you get a couple of crazies to say yes.

Okay, so now I want to fast forward to what happens when the water goes out and all these people look naked, right? Or the advertising cost goes from $200 for eight hours to $20,000 for 30 minutes, right? Or it goes from your Facebook ads costing $3 a lead to $50 a lead. Like what happens in your business now, okay? And that's the problem most people are struggling with is they're going from no value to tons of value. And so the value ladder is the key. And what's funny to me,

It's really interesting to me because, you know, I was, before I wrote the dot-com secrets book, I spent 10 years teaching these concepts. I was teaching value ladder. I was teaching funnels. I was, I was traveling around the world, teaching these things that I decided to put into a book. And then for the next two or three years, we launched dot-com secrets book. People are finding understanding funnels. It was great. And then what was funny to me is then all these people, uh,

knew that my audience read the dot com secrets book. They knew that they understood my principles. And so they're using smart marketing, which is tactically trying to confuse you by breaking away from the strategy. Right. So I saw all the time. I'm like, don't do a value ladder. Value ladders are stupid. Go directly for high ticket.

Okay. I can tell you probably 50 high ticket coaches who literally in their ads, talk about my value ladder and say, skip the rest of the value ladder. Just focus on this. Cause they're going after a strategy I'm teaching. And they're saying, we found this hack to be able to do this. Right. And so they're doing that. So everyone's like, oh, screw the value ladder. I just didn't go high ticket.

So they're listening to that because most people are not paying attention to the strategies. You've got to dig deeper for the strategies. You've got to read a book. You've got to go to a course. You've got to go deeper for the strategies typically, right? And most of the wannabe coaches on the planet, on the internet right now, guess what they didn't do? They didn't read the book. They didn't go through the time. They didn't go study Dan Kennedy. They didn't go through these things, right? All they did was like, what's the hack? I'm like, oh, I was on this webinar. This guy said I could just do an ad and get someone on the phone, right? And yes –

typically what happens is it works for somebody for a window. It stops working as effectively and they start teaching it to you. So by time it's been handed to you as like the cooler strategy of the day, it's already less effective, right? And eventually that wears out and then you never understood the strategy and then your business disappears and you're one of the death tales that we hear about all the time from the cycles of business, right?

because you never understood the fundamental strategies behind it. Same thing when I had people come out with webinars, like webinars are better, you don't do any value ladder, just do the webinar, and then every variation of it. And so I want to come back to you as like this revisiting of coming back to the concept of the value ladder, because when the water comes out, this is the key you have to understand, you have to master, right? You are providing value to people along the way. Now, what's cool about today that wasn't there when I wrote Dotcom Secrets book a decade ago was we didn't have social media.

Okay. Social media is amplifiers. Also it's the front end of the value ladder. Like it's, it's pre any funnel. This is me seeing my wife at a party and having a first initial conversation. That's what social media is. Right. And what's cool. In fact, I literally just finished a podcast interview with Adley and it's probably there. You probably either heard it last week or it's come the week after. So I'm not sure where it's going to fit in the publishing queue, you know, but she's out there and she just does free videos out there. She's got there. She said that she's gotten a billion views per month for every, every month since 2020. Okay.

So what she's doing, she's creating these value videos that go viral to bring people, it's the front tier of the value ladder. People watch that, either her or her brands that she's running, they get value, and then boom, it naturally sends them to the next tier. And now you start moving them through the value ladder. If you look at my businesses, you probably notice I have products at all sorts of price points. I have free plus shipping books. Well, first off, sorry, first the value ladder. We've got organic content, YouTube, Instagram, social podcasts, all that stuff is us hanging out on a date trying to build a relationship. Then from there,

Hopefully, if you guys enjoy this, like especially this podcast, a lot of you guys who haven't read the .com Seekers book, you're like, wow, that podcast is really valuable. Russell said, I probably should get the book he keeps talking about, right? My guests will probably sell 200 or 300 books in this podcast, right? So 200 or 300 of you guys who haven't read the book yet, go buy the book. And all of a sudden, you read the book. You're going to get that in the mail. That's the next tier of the value ladder. You can get the book. You're going to read it. You're like, whoa.

I never understood this. Like now I know what funnels are, how they work, understand value ladders, understand these things, right? You can get value from there. Then you're going to be like, I'm going to go all in. I need click funnels. You're going to go buy click funnels. Then you're going to go do one of our courses and you're going to start moving through these different value ladders, right? Then you're going to go to the selling a line event. Selling a line is $100, right? You can come to this event. It's $100. It's a three-day event with me. Someone pays $100 and his price is low, but they get three days worth of value with me. Tons of connection, tons of like,

you know, getting value and we make the offer on that step for the next step in coaching, right? Right now, 5.5% of the people who buy the a hundred dollar offer end up ascending to our higher end coaching program. Right. And it's just like, and then from there they go into our inner circle and then like, um, it's moving people through these different levels of offers. Um, and so for you and your business, like you need that value ladder because, um, there are people, yes, there are people, the cream of either the, the cream of the crop or the bottom feeders will go directly from, um, meeting you, uh, socially, um,

to saying yes to your proposal five minutes later. There are those people, but they are few and far between. And as media gets harder, it's going to be harder and harder to find those people. So what do we do? We take them on dates. We build relationships. We sell them a free plus shipping book. We sell them a $7 course. We sell them a $100 three-day event. We sell them a $297 whatever it is. We sell them a $500 thing. We have things at different price points because we're moving them systematically through the value ladder.

Okay. And every time I, I talk about this, people like, wow, like I would never buy that. I only buy the most expensive. Like I understand. Okay. But you are rare, right? There are people who come to my world. The very first thing they buy is $250,000 ticket to Atlas group. That happens not very often. Okay. If I base my money off of the random person who would went directly to the top of the value ladder, I would not, I would not be here today. Okay. Um, it's building a pipeline of people, right? It comes back to, um,

you know, it's biblical, like the law of the harvest, like we're planting seeds, we're planting seeds, right? So we're planting free seeds socially, right? Then we're planting, then we're nurturing the seeds. I'm trying to weave in like 50 analogies here so that one of these will land for you guys, okay? It's the law of the harvest, right? So I'm planting social seeds. You come over, right? You got the seed. Now I'm watering with the book and then, you know, you're growing. It's nurturing more, providing more value. Now we're going to sell, you know, the next thing, the next thing. And so if you look at my sequences, you guys are probably on our email list. If not,

go buy something from me so you can see the sequences. Like it'll be more valuable than anything. But if you look at our business right now, we have our core things. We're moving somebody through, right? If you look at the core, we have a very much direct line. We're taking people, taking you from free social to a book to a hundred dollar event, selling online from there, give me a click funnels account from there. Our prime mover coaching program, inner circle Atlas. Like there's our straight line, right? But we've decided we have a whole bunch of different offers to get you guys to, um, to keep moving. Okay. How do I explain this? Um,

a buyer who is in heat will continue to buy. Right. Um, I told some of this before, I think I got some Dan Kennedy, I believe, but it's like a person will continue to buy from you. Tell you either stop selling them something or you offend him. Okay. And so if, but if you, if you stop selling them something, they're going to go look for something else. Okay. Uh, uh,

The first time I got this, man, rewind back a long time. This is probably 18 years ago now. It's crazy. Ryan Dice and I were both in Bill Glazer's mastermind, Bill Glazer and Dan Kennedy's mastermind group. But we were in different groups. And one time Bill did a group together where we all met in the Bahamas and did like a co-group together, right? So Ryan was in the other group. I was in this group. And so we go to this thing in the Bahamas. And it was the first time we had a really good chance to hang out. And I remember Ryan pulled me aside. He's like, hey. He's like, why are you here? I'm like, I don't know.

Because Bill threw the event here. He's like, no, like, why are you in Bill's mastermind? And I was like...

I don't know. Like the offer seemed good. I wanted to be, I want to keep learning. Like I loved it. And he's like, have you studied J-Bram? I'm like, yeah. I was like, I bought everything J-Bram had. He's like, me too. He's like, then what? He's like, I'm like, he didn't have anything else to buy. He's like, well, if you study so-and-so, I'm like, yeah, I bought everything. He's like, me too. He's like, I'm here in this room because Dan Kennedy is the only person who continues to sell me stuff. Everybody else stopped. They had one or two offers and they stopped selling. He's like, I'm here because Dan kept selling me things. I was like, oh my gosh, that's true for me too.

Like I stopped plugging into everybody else because they stopped having offers. I kept –

because I wasn't getting offers. Like I moved to like people want to buy, like they're in motion, right? So buyers and he, they're going to keep buying from you till you stop selling something or you offend him. So you offend him. That's a different problem. We'll talk about that on a different podcast, but if you stop selling it to him, they're still going to be looking for that thing somewhere else. They're going to go, they're going to find somebody else to plug into to get that. It's scratched. She has to keep offering him stuff. Another good example is TJ roll letters. One of the best, the greatest direct mail marketers of all time. He's in the business opportunity niche. He has a huge list of offline people. He sends them, um,

He knew how to make money, information in the mail. And I don't know what TJ publishes right now, but I did an interview with him like 10 years ago. He was publishing, sending out like 100,000 letters a week, some crazy number. Like when we send in emails, he's sending out in letters. And it was interesting because I was trying to do this big JV with him. Like, hey, you should send out one of my letters and we can make a bunch of money. And he's like, cool. He's like, here's my list broker. Just go rent my list anytime you want. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, just rent the list and then you can send out whatever you want to him, whatever you want.

I was like, but doesn't that like interrupt what you're doing? Like, doesn't that like, if they're seeing my message and yours, like what they have in mind and not yours, he's like, he's like, Ross, you don't understand how people work. He's like, they're going to continue to buy. He's like, he's like what I found. He's like the more, he's like the more, and again, he's in the biz op business opportunity market. He's like the more business opportunities they buy, the more likely they are to buy more.

He's like, the worst thing is when they stop buying stuff. Because when they stop buying stuff, they give up hope and then they don't keep buying stuff. He's like, I want you to rep my list because if I have a segment that hasn't been buying and you convince them to buy again, then they're back in the business opportunity market. Now they'll buy my stuff again.

Right. And for us, most of us look at it so differently. We're like, this is our list. Like we're going to protect them. But the reality is these people are buying from everybody anyway. Right. And so you have to keep having offers to go out there. So if you look at our followup sequences, once again, go buy something from me so you can get on a sequence. But every single week we have some offer going out and this, there's this happening to the Russell Brunson list. This is happening to the ClickFunnels list. Um, we are about to roll it out in the, uh, secrets of success list and also the Dan Kennedy list. So

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I did a podcast recently about this call talking about free content funnels, but it's the same thing. Each week there is a core offer that we are trying to get people on our list to actually go by. Okay. And the only reason why is we're trying to keep people in the buying motion. Okay. So for example, last week, um, we gave out funnelologies. Funnelology is a $7. It used to be like a, used to be a $97 course, made a $7 version of it. Right. And my goal is I just need people to buy this. So the study funnels and guess what? They buy it.

they're still learning about funnels from me. And on top of that, they have more desire to have funnel software if they have funnels. And they're gonna have more desire to learn

how to sell through those funnels. Everything else, it stimulates growth in all the other things I'm selling, right? And so we sent out two or three emails last week. There's a free training video about funnelology, whatever. And then they went and bought the course for seven bucks and we sold, I think, 1200 copies. Okay. And it wasn't huge revenue generator, like 1200 copies at seven bucks a piece plus upsell, downsell. So I don't know the math. There's probably 50, 60 grand, which is great. But what was more powerful is 1200 people now. We

we kept them in the buying cycle. They're still buying for me. They're still interested in funnels. They're still interested in these things, right? Like it stimulated that desire back in them that they would have lost had I not sold them more things, right? If your business is free opt-in to a 15,000 or coaching program and nothing else, like you are literally just taking the top 1%, the 1%, 1% who wants something and you're forgetting everybody else, right? And then most people aren't ready to buy it anyway. So like you're, there's so much,

so much breakage in your model or so much money you're losing because you're only getting the cream of the crop or the crazy people and you're missing out on the majority of your audience, which are people that just, number one, they need to buy something from you to feel comfortable. They need to have a good experience. They want to learn your content. They want to hear your frameworks. They want to go deeper with you so they get value before they move and ascend up, right? And then number two, it's a lot of people like, you're not messaging them so they're falling out of your buying cycle very, very quickly. They're moving on to something else. If you don't email your list

At least once a month, they will forget about you. If you're email us at least once a week, I even, I think worst case scenario should be emailing your list once a week. I remember when I first got into this game, uh,

I was so scared to send email to my list because, again, I just set it up the first time. I set up the auto-responder. I figured it out, and I started getting people on my list. I sent an email, but the reply address was my own, right? So I sent an email out, and then two or three people write back like, I hope you die. Stop sending me emails. I'm like, oh. I freak out, right? So I unsubscribe. Okay, people don't like getting emails. So I had this false belief that people don't want emails.

And so I was very careful. Like once a month, I sent an email. I don't want to annoy him. I don't want to like overbearing. I was like, I'm going to be careful. It's like once a month, I send an email. So I send an email and then a bunch of people unsubscribed, people angry. And that's what I was doing. I was like, people hate getting emails. I'm going to interrupt them once a month. That's it. And then I remember Matt Fury is one of the guys I was studying really hardcore at the time back then. And I bought his email training. And his email training, he was like, I send out two emails a day. I was like, what? What?

Two emails a day? I'm like, there's no way. And he's like, what happens? He's like, initially at first, he's like, you get a lot of unsubscribes to the annoying people. He's like, but afterwards, you have these people who are looking forward to your emails every single day. And so I remember thinking, I was like, well, I am not willing to do two emails a day, but I'm going to try to do it twice a month instead of once a month.

And so I did that. I started sending two emails a month. And, um, and that time I figured out how to like have my unsubscribes and angry people go to like a filtered inbox. I wasn't personally seeing them. Cause like you get emotionally scared when you see the people coming back, like unsubscribe me and you're like, ah, and it's like, you know, a thousand people got the email and there's one angry person. Right. And so I was like, I can't see those cause they're, they're making me not want to market. I'm going to shift some things around. So I started emailing twice a month. Right. So I increased the, the, the thing. And what happened is as, um, my income, my income more than doubled by doing that. I was like, interesting.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to try it once a week. And so I went to once a week, right? And again, my income more than doubled again. I was like, okay. And that was my cadence for a long time. And then I remember I had this product coming out. And I was like, okay, I'm going to save up all my goodwill, all my value. I'm like, I don't want, I want to...

Like I want these people like to just be waiting for this thing for me. So I, uh, as we were building this thing, I didn't send an email cause I was waiting. And I thought again in my head, I'm like, let's take two weeks to build that two weeks turned into six weeks, which turned into eight weeks. And you know how software is. And eventually it was like, we're three months in and finally it's done. I'm so excited. And I'm like, my list is like, I'm sure they've been waiting here for me for the last three months. Just like anticipating the day that I'm going to respond. I'm sending them an email. Right. So I go and I send an email to that list and it was crazy. Guess what happened? Nothing. It's crickets.

Nobody knew who I was. They'd already forgotten who I was in three months. I was like, oh my gosh, like people's attention. Like I thought they're all sitting around anxiously waiting for my email, waiting for me to be done with this thing I was creating. They weren't. They read everybody else. They forgot who I was. I was irrelevant at that point. They didn't even know my name. And I realized my list was dead. I had to start over from scratch. When I started from scratch, I said, okay, I'm never going to send less than one email a day. And we started getting to the point where I was like three emails a week. And I'm probably closer to three to five emails a week bandwagon right now.

I do have one friend who sends nine emails a day. So there are different versions, but the reality is like, you have to be top of mind. You have to be communicating. You have to be there. The reason why my friend who sends out nine emails a day, he's in the dating market. His name is John Allness. It was interesting. He told me this. He's like,

Um, he was doing Matt Fury, the two emails a day for a long time. And then he, he upped it to nine. I was like, why are you sending out nine emails a day? And he's in the market where he's helping men, uh, to, to get a girlfriend, right? Like that's the market he's in. He's like, he's like most of the men on my list. He's like, they open up the nine emails a day cause they want entertainment. He's like, I'm entertaining. In fact, John's way to learn the concept of an attractive character from, so he's like, you'd be an attractive character if you like, like you and you build this relationship. He's like, that's,

Like that's how the whole game is played, right? And he's like 90% of the time, my men, like they have a girlfriend. They're here for entertainment, right? They want to hear funny stories and all these things. But he's like there's a window where they get their heart broken. And he's like whoever is the first person in the inbox when that pain point is there, that person is the one who's going to get the sale. And he's like so I need to make sure that the moment that they get their heart broken, like my email is in there. So he's like nine emails a day because I'm not sure when the heartbreak is going to happen. But as soon as it happens, I got to be sure that I'm sliding in there. They're reminding because that's when they're going to buy it.

Because he's like, in my market, they're not buying all the time. When they have a girlfriend, there's no pain. They're fine. When the girl's gone, that's when they're buying. So he's like, consistency. And I think for you guys, it's the same thing. Like, we keep thinking, like, I don't want to know where my customers, they've heard about my thing, whatever it is. It's like, no, no, no.

Like you got to be out there. If they fall out of the buying cycle, either they are leaving the market, which is a tragedy. So like TJ roller, I sent him stuff to get him back, get him back in the market, get him re-excited about the potential of losing weight and making money, whatever your thing is. Right. So it's like, that's part of it. Number two, it's like, if they, if they're not hearing from you, they're spending their dollars somewhere, right? This is their discretionary money. They're spending with somebody. And if you're not there making them offers, then they're going to go somewhere else. Okay. The business that can make the most offers in any industry is always the business that wins.

There's a writer downer. Okay. The business in any industry that makes the most offers is the business that wins. And it's funny. I get people all the time. Russell, I'm so overwhelmed. You make so many different offers. That's the game, right? Because again, I've got 6 million people on my list. 1200 bought funnelology. That means there are 5,900, whatever the numbers are who didn't buy something last week.

week, right? I got to reach like, what's another offer we can do? Okay. Let's go tell about this thing. So how about this thing? And some are going to be low tickets. I mean, mid tickets are high tickets. I'm going to be free with a high ticket upsell. Like you'll notice that the, uh, the price points, the things I'm, I'm, I'm, we're offering are variable, right? They're changing. They're shifting because we're moving people through the value ladder, right? Some of you guys will never in a million years by like register for webinar. I understand that, right? Cool. If you're not going to register webinar, maybe you buy, you're going to buy a free book, right? I buy every free book, free book offer. I say, I love free books, right? Like I love books as a whole. So I'm going to buy every free book off.

Okay. I'm probably not going to watch a webinar. Probably not going to watch a challenge. Um, I probably will watch a VSL. Like there's different, everyone buys differently too, right? So I'm hitting different modalities, right? You probably notice again, if you sit on the, if you sit on the email sequence, start watching, notice that one time we're doing a webinar. Okay. That's a modality. There's certain percentage of people will go and consume. Other times I'm doing a free video series. You opt in, you get this video, one video, two video, three, all pushed into a free trial, right? Or to a free book. Another way is just straight free, free offer. Sometimes it's,

It is going directly like, hey, call this number and jump on a call. Here's a book a call, right? There are times I go directly from there, right? But this is how you make your business protected when the –

when the tide goes out. And so these are the things I wanted to just kind of talk about is really coming back to like, you guys have to understand the strategy of business, understand customer psychology, understanding these things. I'd recommend diving back into the dot-com secrets book if you haven't just to understand these things. Like you probably, you know, fell for an ad that was like, all you got to do is, you know, skip the value ladder and just go to the high ticket. And yeah, it worked for a season, but ad costs aren't 200 bucks for eight hours anymore for cable TV.

right? The $20,000 for 30 minutes, Facebook ads are no longer $3 leads anymore, right? We're $30 leads. So like the games change, this game shifted. You have to come back to the fundamentals and always, always a reset to the fundamentals. When you reset back to the fundamentals and start saying, Hey, why did this stuff work? Like those are the people who have lasted the test of time. Again, I've been here 25 years, two or three people I can name that are still relevant today.

Okay. And that's like literally thousands of people who have come and gone, who were always like the guru, the person, the brand. Right. And the longevity for me comes back to like, I'm still the guy who's studying Dan Kenny. I'm still reading Napoleon Hill's advertising course from 1917. Right. Like, like it's understanding these core fundamentals that do not change. It's, it's not jumping on the bandwagon of the tactic of the day because they don't last. Okay. The stuff that lasts is the stuff. So you need a palette of offers. You need, you know, again, you, you, and, and,

I'm going to take it one step further. If you haven't gone through the linchpin training, the linchpin that I think is taking the value ladder and putting on steroids is structuring the value ladder a little bit differently. It's kind of like phasing. You understand the value ladder, then linchpin is. So if you go to, I think it's linchpinbook.com or freelinchpinbook.com, you can go get that book, and it'll show you the next step, which is like here you take the value ladder and you structure it with some guardrails.

And it gives you the ability to scale the fastest. But reality is like you need different offers. Like you need a continuity offer, which is what the linchpin is all based around, right? You need a free plus shipping, which is the myth that puts people into the continuity, right? You need like, again, $100 offer, which is like dramatic demonstration number two, right? Which is our version of selling online. You need free events, like free challenges, free web runs, which is dramatic demonstration number one. Like if you look at the game plan, like you look at the...

the playbook that I'm playing in all of our brands, it literally is the linchpin. Like it's understand the value ladder, uh, structure it through the linchpin and you can look at any of my funnels, any of my offers, like, where does this fit? It's like, Oh, it's this part of the linchpin. It's this part. It's this part. It's like there, there's not just me randomly. I think people think sometimes I'm randomly putting out offers. I don't know. Um, there's strategy behind all there's guardrails. There's, there's a, uh, there's a thing, right? It's, it's the value ladder is the concept, uh,

the linchpin is the, the strategy, like how we execute on the strategy and everything we're doing. It's pushing people through one of those parts of the, of the, the funnels to get somebody into our, into our businesses. So I hope that's helpful. Hope it gives you guys excited to go dive in deep, dive deeper, even not even, but especially if your business is struggling now, especially if you're having success 18 months ago and you're struggling to take, especially if you had a success five years ago and you're like not doing it right now. Like, like,

These are the core fundamentals you got to go back to. These are what people have been doing and testing throughout time as media has changed in every industry from, you know, from,

From TV ads, direct mail, to radio, to fax machines, to email, to direct mail, just across the board. You've got to go back in the past to study from industries whose media cost rose to be able to survive today's market where internet media has rose so much. Because it's a different landscape than it ever has been in the past. And or it's understanding how to do...

organic stuff at a high level where now instead of like being the commercials on the TV show, you are the TV show. I think there's value in understanding both sides of those because whoever can spend the most money to acquire customer wins and if you can get customers for free through organic, that makes sense as well. So,

revisit the fundamentals, go back to dot com secrets, read that book again, then read the linchpin book as homework assignment number two. That's like your funnel building 101 and funnel building 201. It's a more advanced course. A lot of people struggle a little more understanding that one, but it is the way to really start growing and scaling your businesses in a world that we live in today. So that said, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I appreciate you guys listening in. Thank you, Jake, for the great question. Maybe we'll step away if you guys ask more questions in the future because I like kind of going off on these rants with you.

I'm going to leave one last thing, and that is don't forget, there's one funnel away. Which one is it? Go read the .com secrets book and find out. Thanks, you guys. I'll see you soon. Hey, this is Russell. I had a really cool offer for you right now. Shortly after we launched ClickFunnels, I remember asking some of our top two Comic Club Award winners what would they do if they had everything taken away from it? They lost their name, their brand, their email list, their traffic, everything. All they had was a ClickFunnels account and internet connection for 30 days. What would they do over the next 30 days to get back on top?

I asked over 102 comic club winners and from that 30 people wrote me back and gave me very detailed step-by-step battle plans. Day number one, they would do this. Day number two, they would do this. And by the time the 30 days was done, they'd be back on top of a very successful business. Do you want to know what these people wrote? If so, I took all of these 30 battle plans and I put them inside of one book that you can get free at 30days.com.

All you gotta do is go to 30days.com and go get a free copy of this book. We'll ship it out to you, just cover the shipping handling. And when you get it in the mailbox, you have a chance to go through and look at all of these detailed step-by-step blueprints. All you gotta do is find one of these blueprints that you like, follow it step-by-step, and when you're done, you will have your own online business done and launched and live. So go get a free copy of one of my favorite books we've ever created at 30days.com. Again, that's 30days.com.