Jake Szymanski
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Hey guys, it's Spadoodle. You can always go to davidspade.com to look at my tour dates because I bless a lot of cities in America with my hilarious stand-up act. Or you could not go to it and get on my enemy list. Up to you!

Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's... Because they're naked? Well, it's like the 1800th time you say, on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there, I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it. Our next guest on...

We had a good time with Jake Szymanski. He's a writer, director, producer. He's worked with a lot of big names and done a lot of things. And recently he did this brilliant show called Jury Duty, a behind-the-scenes prank show that was brilliantly conceived. And we spent an hour with Jake and got to know him. He's great. Yeah, I think, you know, now and then...

we get someone that's sort of something in the zeitgeist right now because we're branching out the show a little bit and he does have ties into snl he did some shorts for them he's uh has some good stories actually more than i thought he would about it and jury duty with james martyrs marsden is uh one of those things that you just heard people keep saying hey did you catch this thing and it was funny and interesting and you know very hard to do those

kind of shows the right way. They did it very well. Yeah. And Jake talks a lot about the high wire act of that because they have, they have a, a person who thinks they're going to jury duty and everyone else is acting and there's, there's behind the scene cameras and everything. And they thought that the guy was going to wait a minute. Is this a joke and bust the whole thing open? And they kept stretching it and he breaks down all the travails and all the preparation and work. And it's kind of a magic show.

Yeah, he did that movie. I think it's called Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates with Aubrey Plaza. Yes. Adam Devine. So, you know, he's got a lot to talk about. We had a nice time with him. I think you will, too. Really nice, smart guy. Here he is, Jake Szymanski. Got it pretty close.

I was. I was going back. I was like, I got to watch some old videos. I got to remember the SNL stuff. Oh, you got to remember your own stuff? Well, yeah. Well, a little, you know, a little bit. It's like, it's all a blur at a certain point when you're working at those places where it's just go, go, go and don't sleep a lot, you know? Yeah. Jake is our guest and, you know, with the last name, even he can't pronounce. Do you know how to say it? Uh.

I pretend the hard letters aren't there. So it's Szymanski. Oh, it is? Yeah. You've ever gone for J-K-S? Just like, you know, kind of shortening. J-K-S. J-K-S-K-I. I can't pull that off. Anytime I meet someone who's actually Polish, I say, how do you pronounce my name?

and they tell me it's Cheminsky, and so very different. So I just make it up. Cheminsky. We want it easier. Look, I'm doing an accent. We've been talking for 45 seconds. I can sound like other people. No, it's just Eastern European. Could be Bulgarian, could be Romanian. It's Eastern. Hard to place on purpose. All right, this just in. I'm going to gloat.

So this just in. Where do you think you're going? Water. Are we rolling? Yeah. Do you guys do edits? How do you do it? No. Well, we have Johnny edits behind us, Greg. They like to. We mostly just let it all go because it's a chaotic, barely controlled, you know, conversation. We like to interrupt our guests like I just did there and bring it all back to us. And if he gets on a roll, watch me. I will try to cut that shit down. That's what makes it so fun to listen to. Yeah.

Well, at least we have a sense of humor about it. Jake did a couple things, Dana. You don't know this, but he did, he directed Jury Duty, which was on the Febreze network. That's right. Amazon Febreze. And he was, which was a big hit and up for two Emmys.

Four. Oh, shit. You're trying to lowball you. I know. Why? I thought it was two. Why guess low? No, the show is revolutionary. Should we get to it right now? Or should we go over his resume? Well, I'll say any as an SNL connection, but we will get to that. Okay, great. Could we just, just because I'm curious, because there's not a lot of stuff on your background. I know. That's why I was like, I wonder how this is going to go. Well, it's like if I was, if we were at a restaurant together hanging out with no mics, I'd be like, so where'd you grow up? Yeah.

I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. No, where you really grew up. Poland? Are you trying to go for Poland? No, Milwaukee. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Big Polish family? Big family. Not overly Polish, but yeah, I had like, you know, I think my mom is one of eight and my dad too. So I had like, you know, kind of 25 first cousins on one side, another 15 on the other side. So it was a lot of family time growing up. Being from Milwaukee, were you watching SNL when Farley was a big deal on it?

Yes, but well, no, actually I was late to SNL and that was kind of, and I mean late by like, you know, sixth grade instead of fourth grade or something. But I think I wasn't staying up late enough to have that access. But I remember I would hear-

talking... Like, I remember in school being like, there was this thing last night and someone trying to explain Toontz's The Cat to me. And I remember being... Toontz's of all things. I remember being like, maybe I should try to watch this. But Farley was a big deal because of the Wisconsin connection for sure. But I think...

not only on the show on SNL but then obviously you know Tommy Boy and I think he's wearing a Marquette jacket in that opening scene yeah he always tried to cram that shit in it was a big deal you know we don't get a lot we didn't get a lot back home he got some love yeah he would always try to get something going on so then you see something and everyone gets real excited about it just the fact that in Wayne's World they mention Milwaukee they're the shows in Milwaukee I mean we lived off of that we did the Laverne and Shirley parody I think oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Let me ask you a question. So like if you go back in your old neighborhood and everybody, it's like, okay, you were the funny guy or like are people surprised? Do people know how much you've done from your neighborhood? Like not many people get to write direct movies and do cool things like you've done. I was always into comedy. I was always a comedy nerd and doing a lot of that. So I think in that sense, no. I think it's a little bit – I don't know if you guys have it too, but it is that thing of like the people you grow up with –

especially if you're not from like in LA, New York. But I think it's hard to fully explain what you do all the time. Every now and then there'll be a product that comes out and you see it once every two years. But it's like, yeah, there's a lot of work that happens in between that. So it's...

No, not huge surprises, but I don't think if you're not in the biz, it's hard to fully get what the job is. Did you have a performance side or was it always writer-director? Were you doing skits for the family and stuff like that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I did. Now we're getting to it. Yeah, I think early. A bit of a ham bone. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're always, I would watch a lot of comedy and stand up and try to do that. I think early on, like, it was just repeating, just stealing other roles.

repeating bits. You know what I mean? Like the school talent show or in front of the class or whatever it is. I did that. You did that, right? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's how you get going. I thought I was good because I could recite Billy Crystal.

And I made people laugh just saying his jokes. And you didn't realize there was a difference to actually being Billy Crystal? I would get laughs. And you went as Billy Crystal for a while in Lower Phoenix. It's funny, I didn't mention it. Someone asked me the other night, early albums and stuff, but I listened to George Carlin and all that stuff, Steve Martin, but I would say it. And then when I got a laugh, I was so proud of myself. It's so embarrassing.

Did you ever have any kind of like... But do you think it does like teach you a little bit about just like timing and rhythm and stuff, I think. And recognizing what is good. But also you're saying about like, you're not a class clown, but you liked funny things. I think we all grew up, even especially as boys. I'm sure women do, but you just like funny things. But that by no means...

It translates to you being funny or being a career in it. Yes. And I think actually I discovered performing is hard. And stand-up is the hardest. Painful. I mean, I remember thinking like, oh, I want to do that. I mean, my mom would, when I was, what, 15, 16 –

my mom would take me into the bar because she had to be there so I could like try and open mic night or something or something like that. Wow. What a supportive mom. But also it's like, yeah, it's, it's tough. I think I found then when like, Oh, a video camera came out, we had a video camera at home. I liked being able to shoot and kind of have the control that work on it myself, you know, work out the kinks and then show it. You know what I mean? I think I started gravitating towards that more. Did you ever have, um,

like directorially, it seems like you kind of wonder where things come from. But as a director, you know, you can sort of like, I know Tarantino yells out, you know, we're doing Spielberg on this scene. We're doing this scene. You know what I mean? Because there is a template there. Same thing with his Billy Crystal story, which I don't, not sure I believe. But, um,

I'm not sure I believe. So you decided to get behind the camera and make stuff then and show it to people? Yeah, I was always – I mean, I just watched so many movies and so much TV. And then at a certain point, you're like, that seems fun. I wonder how do you do that? You know what I mean? So I always had an interest in it. And it's not like there's a big –

film scene in Milwaukee. So, you know, you're kind of reading up on it. You know, I came of age in the 90s. That was like a great indie movie, early Miramax 5, where you're like, let's explore these weird movies. Oh, you can make a movie like that? You can make a movie? I think it was a good time to get into film. When you were little, did you edit in the camera? Like stop, move around, start. And then at one point, you're able to actually edit based on your age. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like kind of, I think when I was like a,

a senior in high school could actually like someone from someone from another high school had access to like the first Final Cut Pro and they were like I can get this software and install it on your computer and you're like oh really let me try you know what's that like did you ever come across the toaster the video toaster oh of course famous video toaster you know my brother

design the first prototype with Tim Henson? No, what? What's this connection? He's the guy who Garth's based on. Yeah, yeah. You can look it up. Brad Carvey, Video Toaster. He named it the Video Toaster. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Not to be confused with a flying toaster screensaver. No, no. Toaster got used later. As far as that was just a cool word. Toaster looks good, sounds good. Yeah.

kind of has all this emotion around it. Get the toaster, get the toaster, get the toaster. But that's interesting because that was an intersection where you would have been around. Yeah. And that was one of the first home editings with an Omega something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, I for sure remember that. Oh, I want to talk more about that. So you're in a town that has more of a hamburger scene and you want to go into the movies and comedy. Hamburger scene. Throw us that in. We got a great, we got a great burger scene. Yeah, but it's all with bikers. Yeah. In Milwaukee. Have you guys been to Milwaukee?

Milwaukee? You know what? I played Milwaukee, you know, maybe 10 years ago. My opening act went out. It was like maybe a thousand seat or five. Anyway. So he's playing very quiet and he's a good standup. It's not you. You always killed, but he's playing very, very quiet. So they told me before I went out. So he's thinking I'm bombing. They said, oh, they don't laugh here in Milwaukee. Yeah.

They're loving it, but they just don't laugh very hard. Too polite. I don't know if that's true or not, but when I went out there, yeah, they didn't laugh much, but they really seemed to enjoy it. Is that true? And then a standing ovation at the end. Seven minute standing. I just did a gig there, like a 15,000 seater. And we were, um, that's all.

He's blowing up. No, I'm kidding. But we stayed at a hotel. It's supposed to be haunted, Dana. I tell you this and I got scared. Oh, the Pfister. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I, and, and they're not allowed to tell you. What is common knowledge? It's common knowledge, haunted hotel. Oh, because I, I knew it because they said, uh, Manny Machado or one of these guys in the Dodgers, they go, they were on a road game. When I got back, they go, they were on road game. And, uh, he stayed in his own hotel or an Airbnb because he thinks the hotel's haunted. And I was like,

If they show that fucking, and they showed a picture of it, I go, that's it. They know it's haunted. Everyone knows. Oh yeah. And when, and Bobby told me, uh, the guy that was on the road with me, the comedian, he goes, I think this place is haunted. I go, no, no, don't say that. We're here three days, dude. I'm playing Appleton. I'm doing all these. And I said, I can't, I get scared at that. And then when we asked the staff, I told you this, they go, and the waitress, I go, this place isn't haunted, is it? She first of all freezes. Then she goes,

You know, we have spirits at the bar. I go, shut the fuck up. I go, is it haunted? Answer me. But they're not allowed to, so they all have like a company line. They've had a meeting about it. That's how haunted it is. What do we say when people say it? But you didn't feel any weird vibes. I did hear kids talking upstairs and thumping, and I don't know if there was anyone up there.

And I told Bobby this the second night. He goes, oh, it's for sure. Like children, that's usually in haunted things. I go, no, no. Children is the scariest in haunted movies. I can't take it. And I got sick on that trip. Do you believe in the ghosts? You believe this place is haunted? Yeah, I think so. Would you like to do a horror film, Jake? Yeah, would you? Would you do a comedy one? We did it like so many people. We did a pandemic move into kind of like –

big old fixer house and it's got some stuff going on. We moved into a haunted house, I think. Yeah. You know, I didn't really believe it until my Irish relatives just said, oh yeah, there's a little girl that lived in our house and we'd all say hello to her and everyone recognized her. And just, it was no big deal. No big deal. Didn't feel threatened by it. I've had a lot of different experiences with

Well, I've had sort of waking dream states and hallucinations, but enough about me. We found out. We just moved. Sorry, I was a little tangent, but we just moved two and a half years ago, and my wife was pregnant at the time, and we moved into a house, and we were picking baby names, and we picked the name for my youngest daughter.

And then the neighbors were like, that was the name of the woman who lived here and died. And we picked the name of the woman who lived there for 60 years and died in the house. That just popped in your head. And I was like, are we being Rosemary Baby right now? Like, is someone, they're giving us brownies because we moved into the neighborhood. Is it laced? Like, so we, for a while, we were like, is this the beginning of a horror movie? Wow. Well, my son's name is Damien. And isn't that funny? Mine, my son's name is Lucifer. Yeah.

So it's not exactly. It's not spelled like Lucifer. So could I just ask you a second, because I like talking about movies, like what are the ones, you know, just a few of them that pop into your head? I'd never say favorite movie, but pop into your head that, you know, kind of like, wow, that's inspiring. I'll throw out The Godfather. Sure, sure, sure. I think, you know, there's different phases, right, for everyone. I mean, certainly like

You know, I always go back to Boogie Nights as like one of the best of all time. But that's also one of those movies. PTA. You know, I'm in high school. I'm trying to learn more about film. And then you go like, boom, that's it. And then, but also back to when I was a kid, it was like, oh, I must've been five years old. I remember seeing Spaceballs in theaters and trying to repeat the lines from that. So I love, you know what I mean? Like that's locked in there early. Comedy that fucking kills you as a kid. And you wonder when you get older, when your comedy tastes change, you go,

Would that still make me laugh? But a lot of those still make me laugh. I think about airplane. I mean, someone was asking me about it and just would the time be right? I mean, there's the political correct aspect, but just something that's just making jokes every second would seem kind of refreshing. Leslie Nielsen, you know, some of those naked gun movies, just like funny, funny, funny. I mean, airplane was always, again, the Zucker brothers are from Milwaukee. And so that was like a local point of pride. So that was always like, let's

Let's go. Let's watch Airplane. Airplane's on TV. A lot of people would talk about that. Airplane was a monster. That's like a top tenor of all time, I feel.

um do you like gladiators i mean just such a weird style and weird everything which is it was new when it came out speaking of jury duty took took a genre and then reinvented it so i i was curious about did you ever see spinal tap yeah yeah yeah because i mean it seems like you have you've enjoyed doing a lot of that sort of sorry should i get that no it's

This is funny. This is Jake's wife. Make sure he eats in 20 minutes. And with my medicine. You have low blood sugar? I'm going to silence that. Oh, Heather, get his applesauce.

But are you sort of found your way? Like we intersected in 2013, I think, with the presidential. The presidential reunion. You and Ron Howard were directing something that was like reunion of SNL people who'd done presidents. Yeah. And that was through Funny or Die. Yeah. The comedy website, which I worked for at the time. And that was getting everyone who had played a president at SNL. Yeah.

Back to do a big reunion sketch. I remember this. And that was, I mean, and by the way, that shows you how generous everyone like Ron Howard and the Funny or Die people are that I co-directed, you know, quote unquote co-directed that.

But we must have met that day and you were there, right? We did, yes. Was it a one-day shoot? Yes, one-day shoot. That's hard to wrangle. And Jim Carrey played Reagan, right? Because he filled in and played Reagan. And that was cool. I mean, just as a comedy fan, I don't think... I mean, I hadn't met any of you guys, but then to be there and see everyone come together and catch little behind-the-scenes conversations because...

Chevy Chase was there. Chevy was there. Ackroyd was there. Wow. We were playing Jimmy Carter. You were there. Farrell was there playing Younger Bush. So I was playing W, not senior. I was playing- No, you were playing senior. I was playing senior and he was W. Yeah. And I looked at it last night and I walked in, me as the guy, walked in, well, Farrell. So were we completely improvising that thing where he goes-

I talk, take a sudsy tub. I love you, daddy. Was that all? Was that somewhat scripted? I think it was somewhat scripted because I know McKay did a couple passes and wrote and wrote that, but we played around for sure. There's a lot of riffing at points, but yeah, that was, I mean, that was what? Oh nine or something like that. That was a while ago. I think, um, you know, that was amazing to see, see everyone. I remember being caught in a room and seeing and, and hearing, uh,

Chevy and Dan Aykroyd catch up. Like they hadn't seen each other in a couple of years. And I was just kind of like, be as quiet as you can. Don't make any moves. And they're just like, good to see you. Yeah. How's the family? Good. Making plans to do Thanksgiving together that year. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you should come over for Thanksgiving. It's been too long and all that. And I was like, man, this is cool. Like see all these guys back together. And what a good excuse to see people who haven't seen each other in a couple of years. That was, that was very, that was a great experience. By the way, full circle was just wanting to talk about poltergeists and stuff like that.

He was, you know, he was, well, he is just a man of all trades. I mean, just really fun to talk to. You know, as far as your comment about Ron Howard, because I've had some interaction with him. It's like if the Dalai Lama was a director, it kind of reminds me of your man in Jury Duty. Oh. You know, like not just this earnestness, but, you know, has sharp edges when he needs to be. He has to direct movies. But Ron Howard has a son of an earnest person.

Midwestern, something about him. Such a nice guy. So talented. But I mean, I got so lucky. The people I got to work with early on, because getting hired at Funnier to Die, that was kind of like my break, right? Access to so many people.

Adam McKay, Will Ferrell, Chris Henshie started that website. Then getting to work with like, Ron wants to make something, go help him out and spend time with Ron Howard. Everyone, they're such the nicest guys, so talented. And it was kind of a good, not lesson, because it's not like I was a huge jerk or anything, but it was refreshing to be like, oh, you can be on top and be,

nice and be a great guy and go, yeah, when you're making a movie, no one wants to spend six months on set with a jerk. Like it's not worth it. You know what I mean? And so it was so nice to see, cause I feel like you move to LA, you start doing the jobs, you're, you're PA on this, you're making runs and you can run into some jerks, you know what I mean? Working on stuff. And you go like, Oh, on the top, top, top,

Everyone's pretty great. Lower level jerks are bad. You know, if you meet someone like Tom Cruise and you say, oh, you know, he was so nice and he doesn't have to be. That's always the weirdest thing. I know. I got credit for that a few times when I got a little more notoriety. He just came in, he bought a soda and he left. I'm like, what? I couldn't believe it, man. You know, it's like, I'm not doing anything. Right. Low maintenance. You know, I do think it's a Darwinian proposition in a sense that if you, you got to be pretty talented if you're a jerk.

I think so. You better be brilliant. But yeah, it was great to see, you know, Ron's so nice and just to be like, yeah, you know, you don't need to be a yeller on set to get what you need to get done done. It was good early on me. I had, I had a lot of good people to look up to. Did he tell you that? No, but just seeing it, seeing how he works and doing the meetings with him, you know what I mean? And, uh,

That was the best part about when they started Funny or Die. I always refer to that as my second film school because I'm out there trying to make my own little gorilla videos and upload them online and hope anyone will see them. And then all of a sudden...

I'm doing the same thing, but, you know, McKay was like, here, I got a script, try to do this. Or, uh, Hey, uh, you know, this person called, they want to, they want to do a sketch. Oh, they're in town to do, uh, to do Kimmel, but then they want to come by and do a sketch. And it was all of a sudden, it was like a ton of access. So you're writing for celebrities and you're trying to,

help make them funny. And it was good training, you know, running, running gun pretty much. I mean, it would happen fairly quickly compared to regular filmmaking, obviously very running gun. I mean, the first year of funnier diet, I don't even think we had lights or proper microphones. It was super grill. Just, just like kids were making online. They were like, yeah, let's do that. But we'll make it all funny. That's how it worked. Like you, when I go in there to do something or they'd say, we have an idea for you. And I'd go in or I'd say, Hey,

I want to do something about Coachella. And they go, what do you need? And I go, I'll write it, but can you get this person to do it? Or maybe we just film it or get a quick set thrown together. Yeah. And then we did it and they let me help edit or they'd edit it and go, what do you think?

And they'd throw it up quickly, timely, because it was like that weekend. I'll be fast. And that was all. And I'd see on the board all these stars' headshots. And they'd say, Katy Perry wants to do something, or this person wants to do something. Yeah. And so people would brainstorm ideas, which was hard because they'd say no to something. And then you're like, oh, shit, we've got to think of another idea for them. But Funny or Die was really...

cruising there and had a lot of good stuff. Did you say you went to film school before that? I did. I did. I went to, I was a film, a film kid. So I went to film school. Pfizer? Pfizer. High school for the arts or college? College. Yeah. College, college. I did like a, I did like a summer camp in high school of like to try to learn about how to make movies. But I was like, oh, I like this. This is cool. I didn't know about this stuff. Wait, we got to back up. My joke was, was it Pfister School of Haunted Filmmaking? That's where I was going with that one.

And I said Pfizer? You said Pfizer. And you were sounding, everyone kind of laughed. Pfister. No one knew what the fuck I was talking about. Pfister is the hotel. Yes. That's haunted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I meant Pfister Haunted School of fucking filmmaking. And everyone just kept talking. I was like, we have editing capability. Everyone has to know. If you're listening now in your car, this never happened. I stumbled. No, I got it. I want the people to know. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I know.

You know, Dana, I think we have a connection. We've been friends for a long time. And for this episode of Fly on the Wall, we've partnered with eHarmony, which isn't us. eHarmony is a dating app to find someone you can be yourself with. We are not dating. I want to clarify that. But the connection is what you want in a dating partner.

just someone like, if you found someone that listened to this podcast, that's somewhat of a connection. And then you sort of build on that. You want someone with some common ground. Yeah. It's not, it, look, if you want to connect romantically over, you know, super fly or fly on the wall, uh,

It just makes us happy. You don't want to be watching The Godfather and the person next to you goes, this movie sucks. You want to- So dumb. Yeah. You want to connect on all issues and harmonize in life. Similar sensibility, similar sense of humor, and similar sense of sense. I don't like when they watch The Godfather and they're like, everyone in this movie is so old. I'm like, they're 40.

Watch 2001 Space Odyssey. Too much of this movie is in outer space. I don't like it. When do they land? When do they land? Why is that stupid red light acting so silly? Who's friends with a robot? We know dating isn't easy. That's why we partnered with eHarmony because dating is different on eHarmony. They want you to find someone who gets you, someone you can be comfortable with.

Yeah. I mean, the whole idea is you're going to take a compatibility quiz, helps your personality come out in your profile, which makes all the profiles on eHarmony way more interesting and fun to read. So I think this is the goal of dating sites, and I think eHarmony does it great. It's just finding somebody you're compatible with.

So get started today with a compatibility quiz. So you can find some and you can be yourself with. Get Who Gets You on eHarmony. Sign up today. But I'm sorry. So you went to film school. Go ahead. Film school. When was it? I mean, so you found your way to SNL, which is part of our theme, but we go everywhere. How the fuck did you get to SNL? That's a big, that's, well, Funny or Die is not a really big jump.

Was it after Funny or Die? Yes, I'd been at Funny or Die a couple years. So they saw your stuff. They did, but actually, I think it wasn't as direct of a line from Funny or Die, even though that was... Funny or Die was like the best prep because all of the people who ran Funny or Die came from SNL. So they were kind of trying to do a model of that for the internet. Yeah. But I actually...

was shooting a commercial back in the day with Bill Hader and Bill had brought millennia long to write for him. And we were shooting like internet Volkswagen ads or something. And I was, it was like a lot of days and it was split up because Bill had a show and I went out and shot with them for a couple of days. And then we took a week off and, and they did a, they did a show. And then we came back and shot a couple more days and I had kind of rough cuts, uh,

of what we had shot. And they were like, oh, you like cut these for comedy. Like these aren't like commercial. You're like, we're going for the jokes. I'm like, oh yeah. I'm like, you know, I come from comedy. And they're like, oh, and we just had a good time. We really got along. And I met them through that. And actually at the end of filming a commercial, I think it was Mulaney who was like, hey, you know, we got, we have like a,

Like we need a kind of guest director for a couple of weeks. Would you ever be interested? Would you ever be interested? And I was like, yeah. So they, they, I think are the ones who recommended me after, after we worked together to, to come on in and they were, they had a director slot open at the show. Wow. And, and I showed up to the show.

thinking it was a temporary like because you know how you guys know at the show the writers will sometimes come in for like just three weeks or four weeks yeah also no one tells you anything no no one tells you anything and i thought that's what i was accepting like a three a three-week gig and then i show up and i remember talking with steve higgins when i first got there and he's like it's not a temporary job it's a full-time job i don't know what they're talking about oh okay okay i'll check my blood pressure yeah thank you but but it was great and and to get in there as they were figuring that out and that was um

Uh, you know, I was only there for less than two seasons because I think, because I thought it was temporary. I was like, I'm just going to come in for a couple of weeks and go back to. Okay. Bye. And they're like, where are you going? You're like, Oh, one in another week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A little, a little bit like that. It's funny or die. Then you get SNL and then you're going to make all these movies. But I would like to talk a little bit about some of these sketches. I don't know what the film. Oh my gosh. That you, I don't know if you wrote them or just directed them.

But you had Sex Ed Couples with Steve Buscemi. That was 2011. I don't know if that was you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sex Ed with Paul Britton's character. I just want to jump ahead to this one because it sort of blew my mind because it rhythmically went somewhere that I don't see comedy go to. And someone's behind this. So it was Tennis Balls with Jonah Hill. I'm so happy you said that one. And first you're like, okay, the guy's getting hit in the crotch. Fine.

Hit, you know. Then you go to this rhythm. He's on his back. Now, who thought of that? And how could you see that in an editing bay and not collapse with laughter? Because that's next level to me. There's no, it's so abstract and it has a funny rhythm to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The rhythm. Well, you know, what's funny is like the ball was done in post, right? So we're just trying to get Jonah to go. He's just going like that. Yeah. Hit.

He's getting hit in the balls with a tennis ball like 300 times. Yeah, we just show it so many times. And I think, you know, I love that you brought that up. Andy and I talk about that all the time. That's one of our favorites that we did together. Sandberg. Yeah, Sandberg. And yeah, that's one of my favorite pieces I did there because it's so... I mean, I think in those, the...

The idea is, can we do the silly joke? How long can we get away with it that will make you laugh two or three more times after you think it's over? You know what I mean? And that was really fun to do. Yes, because you're in kind of a generic thing. Guy kicking the balls or something in the balls. Ah!

And then where it goes, I recommend anyone here YouTube it, Tennis Balls, SNL, Jonah Hill. Where it goes to is so abstract and took it so far. We got Ghost Hunters showing up in there. I remember that. I remember that. His tour to pharmacy, this is something, was it HBO? I think I remember hearing this at Sandberg and he was like Lance Armstrong. I was thinking they do these as like a one-off.

And it was, that's the first time I seen like they did, was it episodes or one thing? No, just one thing. We had done Seven Days in Hell we did first, which was a tennis mockumentary. Yeah. I thought, oh, they're doing these things? And then we did Tour de Pharmacy a year later, two years later. And they're kind of all as like specials, you know, like 45 minute, hour long one-offs. And we had so much fun making those. That was another thing we were like, I can't believe they're letting us make this. They're probably not going to air it.

And just as – I refer to Seven Days in Hell and Tour de Pharmacy as a series of hard right turns. You know what I mean? Let's just see how long we can keep misdirecting and going for before it – And Andy is really, really good at doing that type of comedy. He's the best. And he's so smart too. And the most fun of those is – I mean we shoot those quickly. I mean when we shoot those, we're only filming for like four days for the – Oh, really? For the –

for all the like archival footage, the stuff that's supposed to take place in the past. And then we'll do all the talking heads as we're in the edit, which is nice because you get to change what you need said a little bit as you're editing it. But you know, Andy's in the edit for all of that. He's really smart. Well, he knows what he's doing. That's the thing about SNL people or cast members. Most of them really would want to be in the editing bay. They understand that that's

you know, where it could be ruined. I've been in movies like that because when it's not done properly, it doesn't go from funny, as I always say, to less funny. It goes from funny to not funny. Right. It's over there when it's supposed to be over there. The editors have so much power. You do a movie and you do seven takes, eight takes, and then you go, in your head, I'm thinking, the first half of my first take was great.

And the third take, the beginning and then the last, you know, you could find it. And then I walk over and I see someone go, circle that one, moving on. I'm like, and then I realized sometimes the editor just puts that whole last taking because they got everything they, somebody liked.

And sometimes they just don't go back. If it works and you go, oh my God, there's three more jokes that you missed, but no one went back. So if you need someone to go back, say, hey, go back. There was something earlier. Especially if you're playing around a little bit. Like I came like McKay and Farrell, you know, I got to shadow when they were making Step Brothers and the other guys. I was around a lot. But seeing how they use improv, but...

and you know they have a script that they'll shoot and then they'll shoot three scripts worth of content just playing around and then that's a way to do it but to do it in a way where you can actually use it all is different actually yeah it's a smart thing to learn and then but yeah you need time in the edit like so if I'm and I kind of so again I'm you know

I looked up to those guys. They're teaching me how to do it. I play around a lot. And with those projects, those mockumentaries, we're doing a ton of improv. And if you don't have time in the edit to just keep going through it and find different ways to maybe put it together, it doesn't work. It's so much fun to watch. And, you know, comedians love that. At least the most of my comedian friends love it.

Love the idea that it's being discovered while it's being filmed. You know, you can tell when Will sits in a chair and you go for 15 minutes on Will and he goes on these flight of fancies. Something's going to work. And there's structure to it, but then he's also able to... And it really pops. And that's the thing about Will and a lot of comedians is Will secretly is also one of the best writers out there. So smart. You know what I mean? He can do it all. And so he's always...

Working with Will is my favorite because you get to give him a suggestion and then he makes it so good when he tries it and makes it better. He's like, oh, thank you for making me look smart on that one. And that is why he's Will Ferrell. That is why he's the best. But I think working with –

and with comedians, if you're making something where it's like, no, no, the job is just to be funny. We got to get laughs, right? A lot of it is letting you guys do what you do, like find your rhythm and not be too overbearing too.

You know what I mean? Why couldn't you have directed some of the movies I was in? Because there's 1,200 takes and five camera angles and it's just strangled to death in traditional filmmaking. But the way you shot it loose or you adapted your camera to the talent basically, right? I think so. I like to get a vibe going with people and kind of know. Some people don't like to do a long take or try a lot of stuff. And great, then you talk more beforehand and get it out there. But yeah.

You know, I'm a big believer in like, if you're making a comedy, there should be a good vibe on set. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's part of the no jerk policy is like, you're joking around, you're taking the work seriously, but you got to kind of play to people's strengths and where they're comfortable and start there and then start pushing out into trying new things. Sometimes you watch playback, you have a laugh, then you go back. Yeah. Let's try one where we just do a different ending or, you know, whatever. And then someone's keeping track of it.

And you walk away going, all right, it's there. That's fun when you walk away and you go, that's a good scene. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We got it. The way we pictured it. And like I said, as long as you're shooting it in a way where you can use it all, you know, you're not just trying stuff for the sake of trying it. It's all like. Yeah, it's around the. Sometimes you got to go back and, you know, oh, hey, let's actually walk in with the TV off because we did so much playing around. It might not be about that anymore. Let's do this. And then you go, okay, now we're covered. We can cut any version of that scene or whatever it is. Yeah. It is hard when you're doing it just to do it. And you're like, well, now we're just wasting time because we can't.

Get it all in. Yeah, it's a fine balance. Yeah, you did Brooklyn 99 with Andy, right? Yeah, I did an episode of that. I call it 99. The 99. It's called Brooklyn 99. I call it Brooke. I call it BK. You know how people drop the names of things, you know? I can't remember this joke, but anyway, I'm going to get to it. So you're on SNL and you're doing these short films and then you get to do these HBO type films, long short films.

Macho Manor, yeah. What's the first big studio? Was it Mike and Dave? Yeah, Mike and Dave knew Wedding Dates. It was the first movie. And you get good old Aubrey Plaza. Was that it? Oh, yeah. Aubrey. Fucking so good. So it made $77 million because I looked it up. Oh, good. You know the number. On a low budget. So how did Hollywood, did it emancipate you a little bit or you're already going great guns? Or did people react to you different like, oh, he's not only talented, he just made something that made a shit ton of money?

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I don't, I'm so bad at keeping up on the business end of things and like the perception of that. And by the way, it's like, it's an important skill, you know what I mean? To get stuff done. And I just, I'm so bad at keeping up on it. I think,

With that movie, it was interesting because we were testing like really high. We were testing. Everyone was. Top two boxes. It was a love fest. Yeah. All the numbers were high. People were like, maybe it'll be a sequel. Guaranteed. And then it comes out and it's like, oh, that's pretty well. I think people are making money. But it's like, but it wasn't. It didn't take over the world. They thought $100 million. Because of whatever. That was a big benchmark. Yeah, the expectations. I think also it's been a weird time for comedy movies in the last, you know, decade.

Five, eight years. Eight years, yeah. I think it was right around, I think Mike and Dave was actually one of the last of kind of like, as it was changing, I think. Unbridled. Yeah. Yeah. There's rules now. Our rate of comedy is it's tough to get them made now. It's hard to get, it's hard even. What was the dog one that just came out that Josh Greenbaum directed? Oh, it's great, Strays. Yeah. I want to see that. Yeah. I want to see it. That's art. Your precious Will Ferrell's in it.

Yes, he is. That movie is really fun. I like the scene where he humps his leg. No, it's hard territory to be in. I know that they must have done something. Does it fall through the cracks? Is that what they call an El Camino?

because it looks like a kid's movie, but it's, so who's going? Is it for adults or is it for kids? You know what I mean? Well, when I joined the marketing team for Strays, I said that. What's our audience? First of all. Because listen, I never want to say a movie didn't do that well because I've been in them, but for that, was it Jamie Foxx and Will? Yeah. Both hilarious. I'm sure the movie's great, but if they don't all show up,

I mean, they couldn't really promote it. The striking and stuff. Did it not? I thought, I mean, I don't know. Like I saw it and I'm like, I love it. It's great. So that movie to me is a giant success. Box office and greatness are not always married. No, I'm just saying it's great because they're interesting. I don't know why you have a problem with Will Ferrell. I'm just saying you always get your next movie before the movie comes out.

No, but there's producers that we both have worked with and they, when they're hearing the pitch or anything, they're thinking of the poster. Yeah. Yeah. I don't blame them. Good poster. They're just thinking, who's the audience? There's no poster there. Yeah. And I know young people have pitches to sell and stuff. And I go, to be honest, you're going to be pitching to someone's going to want to know what's

who is the audience? How do we reach them? How do we make money? Yeah. You know, did you ever have a fallow period, not a feral period, but a, but a time where things weren't happening for you? Cause it seemed like according to your resume, you've really consistently worked. You know, I've been really lucky where. Or talented. Yes. I've been, no, I've been very lucky. I kind of. Mostly luck. Yeah.

I've kind of only worked on stuff I like with people I like. And the longer I'm in this... You like us? Hey, guys. And I just realized it's kind of a rarity. I have friends working on stuff too and they're like, I feel trapped here. I don't like it. And it's like, I'm pretty lucky that way. So that's kind of my goal is to keep

working with people I like and that make me laugh on stuff. You have. I mean, we've had them on, your friends on this podcast. So you could take Andy Samberg or Bill Hader, Fred Armisen. I mean, these are like A-class nice guys. They're the best. I mean, it's just, they're not going to be a problem. I saw a lot of your doofy friends last night. Oh, yeah? That was Mulaney, Armisen, and Hader. I think that was it. That's a good crew. That's a very, very good cone. Can we talk, well, I guess that we should pivot to this sort of

Social phenomenon. Oh, it's called jury duty. Oh, it's a social experiment. That's right. You know, I will start by saying- And we know you've done podcasts and you've been talking about the movie. No, he hasn't. This is it. My goal is to ask you questions you haven't been asked. Please. I'm a nibbler, Dana. And I think you are too, but you always know me that I just have to keep the energy going. And I think because I learned from my dad, pistachios are a good source of just, you know, nibble, wake you up.

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I love James Marsden, though. The guy's always good. Dead to me. He was so awesome. And so funny. Really funny. And sharp improv skills. I mean, I knew he was funny. I knew he could hang and I knew he could do it, but just kind of took it to the next level on jury duty. Just for the five people that don't know what we're talking about. On Amazon Freezy, just put it in.

There's a eight-half-hour live streaming show called Jury Duty. James Marsden is the one sort of household name, although he parodies his own – playing himself. He's playing an egotistical version of himself. And they recruit a young man to come in who doesn't know – he thinks he's part of a documentary but doesn't know that everyone is acting except him. Right. We have one non-actor in the show. One non-actor. Out of everyone. Because you say that before every episode. There's a –

We were so worried. People were like, do you understand what we're doing here? Because it is kind of a mix of like... That was smart. We're cutting it to kind of feel like a sitcom in a mockumentary style, like The Office or Parks and Rec that you're used to.

But everyone plays it very real. Right. And tries to seem like real people. But then we were like, are people going to know that one of these people doesn't know what's going on, hasn't seen the scripts and is a real person? So we were there was lots of conversations about that opening. About how it.

Because immediately they have to sort of get it, or if they don't buy in, they just don't buy in, and then you're fucked. Yeah, although weirdly, I've had multiple people go, I didn't know until the last episode that that guy wasn't an actor. Shut the fudge up. And you're going, what are you doing during the opening credits, man? You know, it's every episode. I mean, there's a lead in. By the way, this is a game show. I'm explaining the rules after every commercial. I'm like, does anyone not get it yet? And they're like,

Wait, so you get 5,000. I'm like, yes, I've told you a thousand times, but that's what happens. They go, you got to hammer in. But obviously we're in comedy world. So you get it. When in cars say swing, is that a sexual thing? Do they mean to say swing? And they're saying this mom. Yeah. But she's his ma. She's his ma. But one thing I found interesting, just that like the, the cast you got the, all the actors and we know Kirk Fox, Kirk Fox stand up.

I thought might be recognized. Because he's on TikTok. It became a real concern. He's at the Improv. I saw that. He has a kind of his cadence and his voice is very Parks and Rec. I said, no mustache. I said, you got to grow it out to a beard. Because you couldn't have the guy recognized, your main guy. Yes. And it was interesting because Kirk actually, that role changed kind of late. That role got changed in the writing room.

maybe a month before we started filming. So he was one of the last people we cast. And we had done so much work on trying to find people that wouldn't be recognizable. And when I saw Kirk, I was like, I mean, I know him, but I'm in comedy. The mustache is really recognizable. Maybe we can get around it. But we kind of didn't do our due diligence because he was one of the last people we cast. And then on like day two of filming, Ronald, the guy who doesn't know what's going on,

He tells James Marsden, I just love Parks and Rec. It's one of my favorite shows. And Kirk Fox has been on Parks and Rec a bunch. So we immediately changed where everyone was sitting and tried to keep Kirk off to the side so he wouldn't be in direct eyeline. And he never put it together. But I was like, even in court, when they're sitting there for four hours, we can't have them just –

Daydreaming, yeah. Yes, and it became a huge concern that we were going to blow it just with Kirk. I love it. I thought Kirk Fox, too. I said, the other ones might be good actors. I'm not familiar, so that's great. Recognize them. Because you know who else is really good? Am I rushing? No, no. I love to talk about this show. Because the premise of, so everyone's in, there's a jury case about...

What is it about? Malpractice at work. It's just a sort of random... Yes, the guy screws up the business he works for. And there's some dirt ball that's defendant, I guess. Anyway, so he gets put in jury duty.

It's always funny when they give their excuses because a lot of people don't, you know, they're all mic'd. Everyone's trying to get out of there. So they're trying to whisper to each other, I don't want to be in this. What am I going to say? The fucking guy that says I'm a racist is one of the biggest laughs. That's so gold. Do you remember that part? Uh-huh. He goes, they go, why can't you be this? He goes, blah, blah. I think he wants to see his girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they don't, they say no. And then he just goes, I'm also racist. Let me ask you a question, Jake. Have you ever been called for jury duty and gotten out of it by being clever? No.

Because I did. No, what'd you do? It was something about a cop doing something mean to somebody and they were just interviewing me. I got up to the box and got interviewed. And I said, well, we've all had experiences with police being a little aggressive and they're going to get out of here. Oh, that's all you had to say? Oh yeah. I was pretty much that fast. I say I can tell someone's guilty when I look at them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they go, oh, okay, good. I go, that might help here. We had to work with a lot of lawyers prepping for jury duty. And I heard that actually so many people want to get out of jury duty. Everyone's trying to get out. Right. That one of the best ways to get out is actually to be really into jury duty. Like, oh, I can't wait to get in there. Dude, yeah, I know who's guilty right away. No, no, no. I'm the guy who's going to tell you what's up. I'm ready to be honest. Put me on. I know it all. Get rid of this guy. Oh, yeah, that's great. They don't want anyone, any angle at all. Just-

Yeah. Just so that our listeners understand this. So Jake is directing and you have your producers and you're in a control room somewhere. And you're watching this on a bunch of cameras and you have Ronald, the non-actor. Right. And the whole premise is ruined if he ever just goes...

Fuck you all. I want to get a camera. This is too weird. What is this? Yeah. So you're terrified the entire three weeks thinking all this work. It was so stressful. And it wasn't like things would be going well and you'd still be so stressed that tomorrow is going to fall apart. In fact, the closer you got to the end, the more stressed you were because you were like, we only have five days left.

"Oh my God, if it falls apart now, we don't have a show." So like the better it went, the more stressful it was somehow. It's the only experience I've ever had. - Do you remember this part? Of course you do. When the- - Do you remember one time? - The bailiff calls the juror by her real name, Cassandra. - By her real name, not the actual spell. - And I think she says it twice.

And who of all fucking people here is it but Ronald? And he goes, she just called her Cassandra. She just said Cassandra. We don't have a Cassandra here. We don't have a Cassandra guy. But we were like, it's over. Yeah, the other guy was cool. He goes, there's no Cassandra. What are they talking about? The way you stacked it, like it was like boiling a frog. That's an analogy. I don't like boiling a frog. It got more and more absurd. When the guy was on testifying about

masturbating in a theater to the science fiction. Yeah. And then the other actors are going to Ronald, the non-actor going, that's not even sexy. That movie, I would never. So a lot of this, it's just the theater of absurd kept ratcheting up. But it was true. It was little by little. And actually the biggest worry I had doing it was, cause I, at the end of the day, I was into the experiment of it, right? Like, can we, can we pull this off and can we do it in a positive way for this guy? But also, um,

Then there's a part of me that's like, but it's also got to be funny. And it was actually those first days where you're not trying to push it too much because you don't want to scare them off. But you're still trying to go like, but where are our laughs? Where's our jokes? So I think those first two episodes, those first couple of days were the toughest, were the most like,

well, we made it through, but did we get enough laughs? And, and thankfully it was, I think as long as the audience is on board and that's why we were so concerned about like, do you know what's going on right away? He's a real person. Everyone else is an actor. Let's just explain that. Cause as soon as you're on board with that,

Even the little moments, people are invested and they can be laughs. And so that was like a pleasant surprise. And the audience is nervous also. You know what? The first thing that Dan, this is one of the, not the first, but this is one of the ones that really benefited from TikTok and clips and stuff. TikTok blew it up. Because TikTok, the first one I saw was the actress who you know her name, and I can't remember it. You'll tell me in a second. She was the brand ambassador. Oh, Lisa Gilroy. And she was fucking hysterical. And everyone was like, is this a real person?

And they show her a whole speech on TikTok. It's very funny. And that got me to go, what is that? And how long was it on TikTok? What was the length? Well, what happened was the weekend we came out, people started...

their laptop screens and uploading it to TikTok. Oh, that's smart. We didn't do, we didn't put it on TikTok. Oh, okay. So it was very organic. And then so people were like, I can't believe the show and uploading it. And the, you know, we had a call the following Monday, like, how's it doing? And they were, the marketing team was like, well, it blew up on TikTok. It like the video clips got 50 million views this weekend. And then it just exploded from

there. I think it got like over half a billion video. I kept hearing about it. And then people would tell people. Yeah. That's my favorite part actually is, is going like, Oh, how did you hear about it? Because it was not a marketing campaign that anyone heard about it. It was all word of mouth, which is so fun. It's so hard. And then I've never been a part of the audience. It just doesn't feel pushed toward it. Yeah. At least the initial audience got to discover it. Like I, you know, I had people telling me this woman who cuts my hair, it's a super cool show. You got to watch this show. You know? Yeah. Rosie told me about it. Yeah. All the whole thing when I,

I had a friend from high school let me know. She was like, hey, my mom group was telling me about the show I got to watch, and I remember you posting something about it maybe. So if you were involved in that, congrats. And I was like, oh, if we made it to mom groups in Illinois, we're doing okay. I had not experienced something like that. I'm sure you've talked about this in interviews and stuff, but it felt like when I was watching it, the first time I thought, okay, they've gone –

too far. And that was the guy with the chair pants, chair, pants, chair, pants, huge swing, David, who plays Todd, David Brown. They're all so brilliant. I mean, everyone is. Yeah. Our entire cast, please let's give them all the jobs ever in this town. They're so talented. Do you know their names and their character names? Cause it's a big cast. It's very hard. Well, you know, to be honest with you, we went character name only while filming because we didn't,

didn't want to confuse and have someone slip. You know what I mean? So for my, the first name I often think of is the character name because for months we played Jeannie Ron played Ken. These are good notes. I read some, some down. I, you know, I was worried because when I started watching, I'm like, don't swing too hard. I was like, don't fuck this up. Yes. Cause if it's someone fell off the ladder, remember that? Yeah.

Do you remember? Did you see chair pants? I didn't get the chair pants. So the guy comes in. There weren't going to be enough chairs. David's seen the trailer for the show. No, but the attaches. I saw a super long TikTok. These things. How do you describe them? Might have been three minutes. He basically strapped some crutches to his butt and said, this is my exoskeleton. And called them chair pants. And I can sit anywhere. Yeah. And then he tried to bring it into. And that was another day where like, okay, this could all go away today. Let's see how it goes. It wasn't that burnout that looks like me that was his next door neighbor.

Yes, yes, yes, him. Yeah, he played it so real. And he was set up as an eccentric. He was supposed to make him uncomfortable at first, but Ronald just welcomed him right away. In fact, chair pants, the day he... Chair pants? The day he... When we shot pants. Displayed the chance, as we call them. Yeah.

Ronald just walked right by him, didn't even say anything. Just like, cool. Yeah, I'm sitting on crutches and no reaction. And we're like, do we have to push chair pants more? Like, whoa. He kept surprising us in that way. The one bit we had is we were actually ready. This is an example of how we pulled back to not blow it. On chair pants day, he's in court and then the judge starts yelling at him. What are you wearing? Why can't you sit down? You got to sit down in the juror box. So that helped.

That helped.

And literally we're watching going, I think we're pushing it too far. Like he's getting a little like pull back, pull back. No. So, you know, that's kind of like on the fly. We would decide how far to push it, be watching his reactions and then go, okay, nevermind. Don't, don't go to that level. Did you or any of your co-producers ever go nose to nose in the control room? You are going to fuck this project up, mister. I mean, did anything ever get that,

No, no. Or did you sort of all agree? We're going too far. No, we had such a good team. And, you know, we were all in the writer's room and producing it together. It was a long journey. You know, the people that were there, you know, Cody Heller, our showrunner, Nick Hatton, our producer, and Andrew Weinberg, one of our writers and executive producers. It was kind of like us four every day in that control room. And we had all been prepping it in the writer's room as well. And so we were kind of on the same page and

And luckily, no, it never got to that. If anything, it was pull back, pull back, and we'd all kind of pull back because we were so nervous about losing it. And then when someone would go like, maybe we pushed it a little bit. And you're like, okay, okay, push it a little bit. The more mundane the better. Okay, do you have your top one, two, or three most pushed? I mean, maybe it was the jumping on the bed sex thing. Yeah, you're kind of covering it. Chair pants, I think, was a huge push. CP.

What do you call that thing? Soaking. Soaking. Soaking. Trying to get the Mormon sex rumor of soaking. James Marsden would jump up and down the bed at a certain cadence. Yeah, will you please come? So that he wouldn't be responsible for his own orgasm kind of. Yeah. God would know. I think there was something going around Twitter at the time saying. Too much. Saying. Or not enough. If the car's in the garage, I'm not technically having sex if someone else is putting the motion in there. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And so we played that in front of Ronald, our guy. And again, he's just the sweetest guy. He doesn't want to call someone out and be a jerk. What we realized actually is we were so worried about pushing it. We realized afterwards that after day three or four, we actually could have gone way harder because you get to a point where

Where for someone to go, wait, this isn't real. They would have to think back and go, that means the last week of my life wasn't real. And these are actors. That is such a foreign thought. Unless you're actually a psychopath or a narcissist, you're not, you can't have that thought. So the idea that we're picking a nice guy, a normal guy, we realized, oh, it would have been so hard for him after a certain amount of days to realize what we were doing. We maybe could have gone harder. Dude, I hate that. I got punked once. And when everyone in the place applauded,

It made me sick. It was like Truman Show. You were...

like floating going there's no so everyone just tricked me i felt i don't like pranks like that i was like horrified by it and that made me feel like when you see on instagram and someone is they're usually like mean pranks you know you throw a baseball on his face at a store and then you go hey who threw that it's like well that's just to make this guy look like an asshole and you look cool yes so those i drive me nuts but this one was so elaborate and so far i wonder if he's

If he ever just thinks, that's so weird. He must just- Well, I wrote this down, episode five. That's it. There's a couple of times where Ronald is just standing there going, crazy stuff just keeps happening. Crazy stuff keeps happening. And you guys are all tight in the booth going, no, no, don't figure it out. Shh, let's go to complete silence. Boom.

Though he couldn't possibly hear you where you were, obviously. No, but I mean, we'd be nervous. We were in a courtroom. Where's the booth? Yeah. So we found an old courthouse that was decommissioned, right? To shoot in for budget cuts. And so there was courtroom number three was where the actual case was happening. Courtroom number one was what we made into the jury holding area. And the booth was...

courtroom number two. So we were right in between the actual courtroom and where they all waited. And so we were very quiet a lot of times, trying not to laugh. And actors would say, I'm going to use the bathroom. And then they go into video millage, basically. So they got their phones when they're in their own rooms and Ronald doesn't have them. Yes. They're texting each other. And I have earbuds in with some of the actors so they can hear me live and we're giving them notes. You talk to them. Yeah.

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So one thing that made me laugh, this is kind of dry, but James Marsden playing a parody of a clueless movie star, Shallow. And his whole time, he's working on a film. He wants to tell everyone. Lone Pine. Lone Pine is such a perfect, funny...

Could be real, but ridiculous name. That must have made you laugh every time. You must have. I love it. Lone Pine. We're working on Lone Pine. Was he hinting that it was like a big director? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was from the writer. That was fun in the writer's room. They got to play around with that and write fake scenes for that. Cause I mean, the other thing about our show, obviously the actors do so much improvising, but,

I mean, 80, 90% of what you see in the show was scripted. You know what I mean? And it was just about how to get there. How do we get to these lines that you can say? Come on my shoulder was scripted. Uh,

Uh, maybe she threw that. It's such an abstract thing. She's the best. The guy walks by him. It's a testimonial to the camera. Mm-hmm. And she's talking about her plans with Ronald. To- No, not with Ronald. To corrupt Noah. Yes. To corrupt Noah, yes. I'm going to let him cry on my shoulder maybe. What about- Who played Noah? That guy was great too. Oh, Mackie Lepper, who's- he's nominated for one of our Emmys for writing one of the episodes. He was one of our writers as well.

So he, that was great because he was in the room and fully understood that like he was, you know, he's basically a producer level person in there because he knew all the background. He knew all the bits we cut. He could go back to something so easily. And he's just a really funny standup as well. And who are you nominated against for the Emmy? Like,

Is there another show like it out there, but you're nominated for against Ted Lasso or something? Yeah, Ted Lasso. A lot of great shows. Maisel, Lasso. All the Os. The Bear, which is obviously great. We did not expect to get, I mean, you know, we made this tiny little show that's a crazy experiment and we did not expect to get nominated. It feels pretty nice, but yeah. Who was the guy who went to the bathroom? Did he say he's going to go whack off? Yeah.

Touch someone's shoulder, he doesn't want to whack off. And then the other one that really was stretching is apparently Marsden pooed very aggressively in a bathroom. And then the guy came in to fix it. And then your hero, Ronald- Took the blame. Took the, so it was me because Marsden said, look, it would get out in the tabloids. It wouldn't look good. Tabloids. Saying the tabloids would publish a photo of the shit. Normal people think that paparazzi would do that. Do you finish that scene and go, okay, that's a wrap for today, people.

To be honest, that was one of the ones that I was like, should we do this? Cause we could blow it. Because if, if Ronald being a nice guy tries to get in there and fix it, like I get all inclined, you know what I mean? It's not real. Yeah. Because that was actually one of the biggest things for our show compared to a typical show or movie is like,

We didn't have to be camera real. You know, like you're on set for a normal TV show or movie. You might, you know, the wall might be styrofoam or something. It doesn't matter as long as it looks right on camera. But we had to be reality real for this guy who had to believe everything was real life. It was a whole other element of difficulty for the crew. And he walked into the booth and he looks around when it's over. Yeah. And then he sees like the back of sets. It's so fake looking. He's like, oh my. This whole world is like spinning.

It took him a long time, I think, to fully process, as it would anyone, what would happen. And that nerve wracking of that maybe he would get upset or something would be. We were all in love with him by the point. You know what I mean? So we're like, we really hope we don't like hurt him. You know what I mean? But the relationships are real. Like he really did. He's friends with everyone. I was just talking to him yesterday. We all keep in touch. He's a great guy. Great head on his shoulders. That's why he's so good in the show. What was his job?

He had just sold his business. He was like a solar contractor, solar. He was working with like a solar panel cleaning system, I think. And he had sold that. And this speaks to his character. And he was kind of between jobs. He had just sold his business and he was like,

wow, what are some life experiences I could, I could do that? I won't have time for again. Once I start working again. And he found this ad on Craigslist that said, have you ever, if you've never served jury duty before, and you'd like to be part in an interesting documentary, this could be for you. And he signed up. And I think it's like, that's part of who we're looking for someone to say yes to things. You know what I mean? And that's, uh,

And so, and he also doesn't want to ruffle feathers and he wants to come in and be good. Yes. That helped too, that he thinks he's in a documentary. So he's already used the cameras being around. Yes. He thought there was like a five person crew. He didn't see the other eight hidden cameras. He saw a very small PBS European serious documentary. In fact, I don't think it's in the final episode after we wrapped and I finally went out and met him and we were all talking with him and I was doing his final exit interview and he goes, can I, can I, can I give you guys one suggestion?

And we go, yeah. He goes, because we'd explained like you were kind of the moral compass and we wanted to do this live play of crazy characters and situations around you. And he goes, oh, that's really nice of you guys. Can I give you one suggestion? If you were going to cut this together, I just want to say there's a lot of funny things that happen. Maybe you could make it a comedy. And we were like, yeah.

Oh, yeah, sorry. Most of the boring stuff won't be in there. You know what I mean? We were gearing towards that. Right. But he's just like, you know, that's who he is. Just a sweetheart going, I was laughing a lot during some stuff when I would get home at night. You should look at that stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's interesting because earnestness, going full circle to that word that I think is part of his charm, it's not to do with being a pushover. It's not to do with being not very bright.

It's just this spectrum of his personality that is so sincere and also always thinking of the best because you can't help but think, God, if I was in this situation, would I be that? Every time something happened to someone, he basically spun it positive. He is such, because he's a very smart guy. Ronald is just a very decent guy and he gives people the benefit of the doubt. And that's what we were looking for. But he was even better than we could have hoped. What if he got mad at the end of it?

Oh, we were truly terrified. In fact, you asked what the craziest things we were worried about was. The reveal became the most terrifying because we had gotten through all the big set pieces. And then we were like, now we got to tell them. Like there was part of us like, maybe we should just go a couple more days. We don't want it. We were so nervous about telling them. That actually became the most scared we were about doing it in the wrong way, telling me in a way that would upset them. The judge was being very ginger about it.

Yes. He did a good job. We had a long speech. We cut it down in the show, but we really...

Let's lay this out for you. Let's do it bit by bit. And we really had to. And then what got me, and I guess what gets people, meaning kind of teary, is when the judge says, you've done this and this and this and this, and you are our hero. And then here's a hundred thousand. Yeah. I mean, that was just kind of nice. Yes. But I mean, the emotion of that moment, because he was, I guess he was blushing and just,

So stunned. Well, we were so worried. Is he going to, is he going to be upset? Is he going to be happy? Is he going to scream? And it's like, no, the reality of someone telling you, Hey, every person you've interacted with for the last three weeks has been an actor.

You just have to think about that. What does that mean? That is not a normal thing to react to. Because in normal hidden camera shows, you maybe push someone for like two hours, three hours and go, hey, just kidding. There's a camera here. You immediately go, oh, okay. The last two hours were crazy. He could feel deceived. He could feel like, it would probably a lot of emotions. But the hundred grand helps. It helps. But a lot of the conversations behind the scenes between the producers was how do we do this in a okay.

And do you think one thing I found interesting, because everyone was so great and it's sort of it's love them. It was scripted, but also they had to when they were around Ronald be listening and be in the moment in case they had to adjust. Yes. So it created this hyperacting like, you know, I always tell people, like, if someone came in here, all FedEx guys come here. I don't want to see him anymore. We would all go. Let's just tell him we're real busy. We're going to do another hour. We'd all act perfectly, probably. Yeah.

Because we wouldn't be trying. We'd be like, oh no, we're just going to be here for... So just put it... You know, so whatever that magic is, it didn't seem like real. It was next level kind of acting. They're all amazing. That was the toughest part of casting was... And shout out to Susie Ferris, our amazing casting director. But we had to find people that were...

That wouldn't break. Strong enough to not break. Good enough at improv. Good enough at choosing their moments. Because we'd say, you got to get to this joke. You got to get to this line. But we don't know exactly when it'll happen. So you got to choose the right moment to jump in and be that good, but not have already been a serious regular on a show that he could recognize you from or something. Don't push it. Yeah, exactly. Don't push it. You get someone pushing, you got to...

write them in less because you get scared. And that was our, our callback process was really fun because basically to test people, we went to a real focus group center where people, you know, get paid a hundred bucks to come in and give your opinion on something. We brought in actors that we, that we were excited about and we brought in real people and every group was five actors and five real people. And the five actors didn't know who the other actors were.

If they didn't know each other and we, I gave them a character and a goal and jokes to make. And then it was, let's see how they do with real people. And can, do they know when to jump in? Do they know how to push it without breaking it? And we needed that for sure to, to be able to pick the right cast.

And it shows you just, you know, not to go back to the strike or anything, but, you know, talent meets opportunity. And so any of those people could go anywhere they want to go. It's just it's very hard to get a break as an actor in Hollywood and become known and then have leverage and make a really good living. It's so rare. Yes. And just to see that.

brilliant level of performance with all these people that I didn't know who they were. I'm so proud of all of them. I really am. They're amazing. And so good on you to foster that. They must love you. Good job on this. Thank you for talking to us. Anything else you want to tell this? No, I just wanted to shout out to Ronald Gladden that, you know, it's documentable that you are a very good person. Yes. You know,

He's the best. It's been proven. And that's nice to have it on film if you have kids later and they think dad's a jerk. Look at this. I didn't even break. So it's a next level revolutionary project. I don't know how someone tries to do this again anytime soon.

I don't either. It's so unique in the form of Canon camera or the whole heritage of hidden cameras. You guys took it to a whole nother level. You can do it. It's tricky, but you could, you know, it is trickier the second time. Yeah, I think we'll have to find a new setting. Yeah. Yeah. But everyone wants to sign up to do a show. Jake Zemanski. Sorry. The Polish, Jake Zemanski. Thank you. Has been our guest today. David Spade has been David Spade.

Thanks for coming into the dungeon. Thanks for having me in, guys. Appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. Jerry Doody, everyone. This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. No joke, folks.

Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.