Keegan-Michael Key and Elle Key
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Yes, I have actually stayed at Airbnbs from time to time. And truth be told, I do really like them. I'm being totally honest right now that I've had great experiences with them. Yeah. I mean, you can have your look at you go get your own place, get your own pool, your own living room. You're not going to walk in an elevator. You're not going to see people when you're walking around in your undergarments. Yeah.

Yes. And if you don't understand what we're talking about, you should go online. What we're saying is you have a house with a kitchen and a bathroom and it's just for you, tailored for you. You liked your Airbnb over a hotel. Yes. And I do think I've had relatives stay nearby and sometimes it's very nice for them to do an Airbnb and have a little house and they're not underfoot. The last thing you want is your house guest to say, excuse me, um,

Where would I find a towel? That's a toughie when it's because they're naked. Well, it's like the 1800 time you say on the towel rack. Yeah. Thank you. I was going to look there. People don't even think hotels sometimes just go, hey, I'll go there. I'll get an Airbnb. So you won't regret it.

So Keegan-Michael Key this week with his wife, Elle Key. They've both done a lot in this business we call show. Keegan is a very fun guy to talk to, funny guy to listen to. I see him in a lot of clips out there. He's on so many things, commercials. And he and his wife put together a comedy book about sketches, the history of sketch comedy. Yes. And so we deep dive into

Into that. It was very, very interesting. And Keegan and Al have a very close creative relationship. It's a nice thing to see. And he's in Schmigadoon. Schmigadoon. Schmigadoon is still out there.

Yeah. And I see him on so many things and some football commercials now, but he's always working always. He's very into character and sketches. And in this book, he dresses like characters in the past. I think Charlie Chaplin all the way up. I think Wayne's world, you know,

Yeah, he analyzed your Bye Bye sketch, the flight attendant sketch. Oh, did he? Oh, yeah. He did. Yeah, we won't tell you what he said. I'm not sure. It was an interesting idea of a book to analyze the history of sketch comedy. Sketch comedy doesn't get awards. No one thinks about sketch comedy as an artistic endeavor. You know, the first...

iteration of the buh-bye sketch that didn't work as well was that everyone was getting on the plane and we were like hello hello it just wasn't as funny i remember when lauren michaels it was just a a word thing he didn't he didn't like uh i don't think we should really be calling it a skit he hates the word skit yeah it's a skit uh it's a sketch yeah for some reason yeah

Have you ever seen people that say, you know, this guy's stick is that he acts a lot of crazy characters. I go, you mean schtick? I don't even know what schtick means, but I know it's not stick. Yeah.

Like a stick? Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, let's listen. We had a lot of fun with them, as we always do. A lot of laughs. Enjoy the episode. Thanks for listening, fans. Fans? I don't know. People are like, that's a strong word.

Wait, have we started? Wait, what? Oh, we've been on for 20 minutes. We sort of just roll into it, but we take out the fat and it winds up being about six minutes. We don't take anything out, but you can call us right after this and edit anything you want. So say anything you want and then and we will take we will cut that fucking thing out, man. You can like syllables in a name. Yeah. So I met you two as a couple at the Oscars, right?

Yes, with Mike, with Mr. Myers. With Mike Myers, yeah. That was exciting. Yeah, actually, I texted him this morning, and I let him know that this is what we were doing today. And he just said, Dana is a doll. Dana is brilliant. Dana, Dana, Dana, Dana. By the way, do you know that you are...

I know Dana. Yeah. She corrects him. She's like, no, he keeps complimenting. No, I'm, I'm, I'm protesting. And also, Oh, nice. You know, wait for the next text. It'll be all about me. Just give it a second. He adores you both. I'll, I'll, I'll text him now. Um,

Do you know, Dana, that you are on the cover of our book? Yes, I saw it and I called. I'm not a big lawsuit guy.

I looked at it. I checked in. I am. And you know what? It's my gift to you. Thank you. I even told him this morning, I said, do you know this? And he said, oh yeah, I love it. That is the most insanely flattering. So people who just joined us, we're live. Elle and Keegan wrote a book about the history of sketch comedy and have a podcast. And on the cover of it,

Keegan is doing all these, your dresses, all these famous archetypal characters through the history. And there you are with Garth. So I was absolutely flattered though. Absolutely. We did actually call Mike for, we called Mike for permission. We didn't call you, sorry, but we did call Mike. And I said, I want to do Wayne or Garth from Wayne's world. Cause it's so iconic. And he said, Oh, you should definitely do Dana, do Dana.

Oh, now that is silly because I always knew no matter what,

It's called Wayne's world. It's not Garth's world. I'm the guy next to the guy, you know, so, but that's very generous. We're, you know, when you get older, you get wisdom, you put your weapons down, you get very nostalgic, you tear up a lot, you know, you'll see you're too young. You poop your pants. There's a bunch of images I can send to you later that ended up not getting used. Yeah.

She's showing us on her phone. Garth is a funny look. Garth is funny, Dana. That's a good look. Garth does have that funny, there is something always going on with the mouth. There's always that, you know, there's that right wing. Yeah. It's totally like that, that like curled lip thing, which is always what was the money of the character to me. And then dropping the rhythm. You're like, yeah, I had a good time.

So he doesn't quite say time, you know? Yeah, time is a good time. Time. And then all his tension is in his jaw. I'm not really a method actor, but yeah, everything is just there. Everything's there. You guys are, I mean, looking at your resumes, everything you've done, and now the history of sketch comedy, what gave you the reason to write that? I mean, it's very interesting. I was listening to the Audible one last night.

And it's really fun and interesting as you go along and get into vaudeville and stuff and all, all how it all came together. I don't know. Do you want to start there? We can go anywhere. Start there. Let's start there. So a couple of years ago, I, someone had asked Keegan about writing a book. Would you ever consider writing a book? And, um,

I, Keegan and I had this conversation. He's like, God, it's, you know, it's, we know it's not easy to write a book. It's a whole process. And I was like, well, he married, he married a writer director. So I was like, well, I'll help write the book. And he's like, I'm not really interested in writing a book. So I just said, well, you know what? I'm going to just interview you for the next seven years and collect stories and information. And I wrote and directed for a,

sketch comedy show in college and I worked off Broadway and I've been doing things for years. And when we got together, I started writing for him and I said, you know, I really think there's a fun way of you being kind of the, the tour guide or like the host, all of these things. And you're so accessible and, and he's so easy to talk to and communicate with. I just thought it would be really fun. That's so cool. Coming from a wife.

It really is, isn't it? That'd be more like a girlfriend. That'd be like a girlfriend, but a wife going, well, he's very cool. No, it's very, you read classic sketches. You do characters. The Audible book is incredibly entertaining. I have a question right now, though. As you started this journey, you're interviewing your husband. Both of you, did you kind of, as you went along, more themes came up and more like this was the archetypal event? He kind of stayed

of stayed out of it, I feel like. Well, I would say to him things like, when did you hear about Second City? When's the first time you heard about Second City? And then he said, actually, he was reading an autobiography of John Belushi by Bob Woodward. And I was like, that's an interesting story. So I was like, okay, this is going to be in a chapter somewhere, is how do you get into talking about Second City or schools of comedy? And then...

I asked him when the first time he heard his father laugh was, and it was happened to be watching Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live. And that's the first. He has all these good answers. I know. So I was like this thing writes itself basically. So then that, that podcast that you, that the audible series is,

came about because when COVID started, I pitched my teams and agents this idea of, I'm going to write this book on sketch comedy, and I'm writing it as a kind of a love letter to Keegan and my love of comedy. And they said, you know, would you consider doing a podcast?

And I said, sure. And then I pitched Audible this idea that if Keegan-Michael Key was teaching an NYU course on sketch comedy, and it was a 10-part class, it would be a very, very crowded class.

And it would be a lot of fun. Yeah, it's funny. And where would it go? And then I pitched them the idea, for those of you who don't know, there are no clips used in the entire podcast. There's not one audio. Right. It's a tour de force, I might say. It's all Keegan. It's always. Keegan is every voice of every character in every sketch. And I wanted to continue that with the book.

Which is why I, when I designed the cover, I pitched audible this idea of what if instead of Keegan performing, what if Keegan, we dress Keegan up. And as a matter of fact, um, lose a carry and help me with all the hair and makeup who was on who's on Saturday night live does the hair and makeup. And then, uh,

The original idea for the book cover was, you know, the evolution of man, like the chromatic. Yeah. Classic. So when you open the book, the first thing you see is all of those characters. I'm still in there. My God. Damn. Who's ahead of me? What the fuck?

You're showing Garth again. I should be a teacher. Ann, I don't have any... I want to... I love... I'm biased. It's like you're only... It is substitute. The substitute teacher is ahead. It's just only because of the time. Well, it's the... I did look up that. 213 million...

views on YouTube, another tour de force as the substitute teacher on the Key and Peele show. So that was classy. What I loved about the book, when you got into naming, okay, who was the linchpin for television? How did people adapt from vaudeville to radio? I was into all that section, which I found fascinating and how Milton Berle was kind of the first TV star.

sketch comedy superstar. That, that was, I like all that stuff. It was really cool. I really liked the variety TV. I don't know how far you got into variety TV. That's next. I was a huge Donnie and Marie fan. Oh yeah. And then we started doing this deep dive of every single person we could find who was on a variety TV or had a variety TV show. Yeah, it was, it was, it was nuts. If you think about the fact that Howard Cosell had a variety show called, called,

The Howard Cosell show. No. And then it was Saturday night live. Right. As well. I think it was. Oh, no, you're right. It was called Saturday night live. That's right. Yeah. And Lauren said he's not using it anymore. Yeah.

I think Saturday Night Live was called Saturday Night for a while. Or Saturday Night with Howard Cosell. Everyone had, every musician, Glen Campbell. I mean, yeah, it's infinite, right? Everybody had one. Everybody had one. It was amazing. Right. Yeah. And then sometimes they're on ice skates, right? Sometimes Donnie. Oh, yeah. It was, you know, when I was watching those, of course, I loved them growing up.

And Captain and Tennille. It seems like if one hit song, you get 13 episodes of a variety show. Anything. Like everyone, they just threw them out there. Johnny Cash had one. The Brady Bunch. The Brady Bunch. Had a variety. That's right. With David Letterman and Michael Keaton. Yeah.

Yeah, we're in the cast. Very short-lived. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. I've been on a lot of short-lived stuff, but we can go into that later. But short-lived is a very polite way of saying it lived, but shortly. It wasn't a smash. So, Elle, you put all this together. So you had to apply interviewing him and then kind of get this narrative and look up Milton Berle and kind of expand. Yeah, and then Keegan would help me, and then we'd figure out –

It was a little bit of a challenge because the podcast and the book are different. There's a lot of clips from the podcast that are kind of the through line. But I also, for the book, was very fortunate enough that people like the brilliant David Spade gave me a few minutes of their time. Yeah. What did he say? Was it wise and funny? Oh, yeah. Did I say anything good?

Yes, of course. Of course you did. Nothing off the top of our head, but he did say a lot of interesting things. So basically, Chronicle is the publisher and they asked, they said, do you think you could get a couple quotes from some people in sketch comedy? And

because of all of the goodwill and all of the people Keegan and I have met over the years, I ended up doing these little kind of mini interviews with about 35 people. - Yeah, give a list, it's unbelievable. - Yeah, from Chris Rock, Mike Myers, David, of course,

And then Carol Burnett, who I did call. Did you reach out to me and I blew you off? I don't remember being asked, but I would have done it. Stonewall. No one can get near Dana in his fortress. I will never, even though I'm the second in command on the cover. Right?

Long way for the cover. I think it's because I'd only met you once and I think other people. No, it's all right. Maybe I had a little bit more. But Elle, right now, live, because we're going live globally today. Not really. What would you have asked me? We can just fill it in for people. So basically...

What I did is try to figure out, so there's, I kind of broke it down to 10 different sections, 10 chapters and figure out what would make sense. So we did talk to Kevin Nealon and there are a bunch of Julia Louis-Dreyfus. So there are some people that talk like Kevin Nealon talks about, uh, Lorne Michaels. He also does talk a little bit about you are, I mean, you're in a little bit, he talks a little bit about Hans and Franz. He talks about Hans and Franz. Hans and Franz. That was a hundred percent me and Kevin. We were like. Hans and Franz is in the book. Um,

so I probably would try to figure out what, what subject in the book. And I would tell you what they are that you had some kind of relationship to. So for example, you said you love the stuff about early, the early television. Yeah. So then I would ask you about something that has to do with early television and then made a little sidebar in that chapter on your thoughts. You know, on every level, I'm fascinated by the history of comedy. I am fascinated by,

by how the hell in the early 60s with Bob Newhart and Bill Cosby and others, their comedy albums were that crackling. Because I'd sit in the dark with vinyl

And I've never heard sound like that, that present. I was told they would be in little tiny clubs like the Purple Onion and put one mic overhead or some reason. They are so lively. That fascinates me, just the sound of it. But I have kind of a question and or observation because I have grumpy old men in my life like, music ain't no good anymore. And I go, doesn't the music just reflect what the culture is doing at the time?

And so with the last 50 years of comedy, obviously it's gotten looser or whatever. What is today's sketch comedy telling us about where we are as a culture? You have 30 seconds. Ooh. That's a good one, Daniel. I had nothing. I was spitballing. I'm talking too much. No, that was my next question. Key and Peele, as an observer and a fan, Key and Peele certainly came out of

having an African-American president came out of what was going on in the culture, having two mixed race hosts. So maybe- I think it's true. I don't think we would have had a show if Obama hadn't become the president. And it's one of those interesting things where

You look at his demographic and you look at our demographic, and it's exactly the same, coming from single-parent homes, coming from interracial relationships. But I think also the other thing about Key & Peele is there's something very cinematic about the show.

that a lot of the sketches tell stories. They're not... We never did any game show sketches, which is one of my favorite things ever on Saturday Night Live or game show sketches. But you don't see them in Key & Peele, which is interesting. You see more storytelling in the sketches. And also...

doing things very often that would be able to happen in real life. And the reason I think that, Dana, is because so many people get their comedy and derive their comedy nowadays from

from YouTube, like watching a real YouTube video of a person really, last night, what did you show me last night? You were showing me, oh, the fireworks thing. Yeah. Yeah. Like a video where somebody set off some fireworks and the fireworks went awry across someone's front yard.

In the front yard, yeah. Goes under the car. Goes under the car, right, exactly. And blows up like the car. And blows up. But it keeps tightening. But it keeps tightening, yeah. It keeps tightening. Yeah, and it was actually like a well-done sketch because it always got bigger. And then people start pulling their kids away. Right, right, right, exactly. And it felt like you almost, not that you have to, but very often I think people are influenced by that and they start writing sketches like that. So they don't do the high concept sketches as much as they do –

in life sketches. But that is kind of a choice, I think, because Keegan and I write together. And Keegan was very specific on Key & Peele about you go from a five, and we do talk about it in the book and the podcast, you go from kind of a, you started a five and you go to a 12 to an 18 to 27, then 110. Like the I said, bitch sketch, you know, it keeps heightening and heightening. Oh, that's what I loved about Key & Peele, that the beginning was so real.

And you had told me about your guys' technique and, you know, Saturday Night Live had its lane. And so when you came out, that show came out, it was something new, you know, very filmic and played very serious. And then just go ahead, finish your thought, Al. It just, it's like a boiling a frog, right? It's like, yeah, even the teacher one, it just, I wasn't even sure where it's going. And then it starts, you're getting angrier and it just gets crazier and crazier. You know, I thought was a clever one was the auction thing.

because I don't see where that's going. And then when you start doing it, you're like, this is fucking hilarious. And it's hilarious, hilarious, and it's over. And so you don't start getting tired. You don't start going, all right. Right, right. And then we're just done. We're just done. Yeah. It's like good, good joke, good joke, over.

But part of the reason why the, I mean, how do you make a slave auction something so serious and make it funny, but it's not about the auction. It's about people's egos getting hurt. Yeah. That's the fun part. That's the actual theme of this, of the sketch for people who haven't seen it. Basically the Keegan and Jordan are two out of three spots on a, in a slave auction. And,

the first person who comes up next to them keeps getting bit on and they never get bit on. And at first they're like, oh, you can't, I mean, you can't. - Yeah, you can't, it's like, you're like, you know, good, I'm glad he got sold because I don't wanna be owned by another human being, you know what I mean? I mean, I ain't trying to get owned up in here, you know?

And then every time a guy comes on the lot and gets sold, we're just like, okay, now that's interesting. Why are we not getting picked? I'm actually physically bigger than him. I mean, what's going on with lot A? They're not buying anybody on lot B or C. I feel like I'm taller than other gentlemen. I feel like I have more stamina than that gentleman. Maybe they can't see us from their angle. Right, exactly. It's always these weird excuses of like why they're not getting picked.

A little shrimpy guy comes on and you're like, now, okay, now it's too much. This is a trick. Like, this is ridiculous. Do they even know what they're learning? Yeah, I know. That was very funny articulating. And the way you two played it, kind of just casual dudes talking, you know, it was just against the whole darkness of the situation. But each back and forth, Dana, like the last minute is like, joke, joke.

He does a joke like on top of each other. Yeah. But each one is a quality, funny thing to say. And then it was over. I was like, oh, that was great. My biggest flaw is I'm a perfectionist. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Yeah. I know magic. When they got on the boat, I put up no fuss. Right. I jumped on.

I was like, I didn't bump into anyone. I jumped right on. It's like, it's so funny. So funny. So good. So those are like, you can watch those. You know, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm going to do a 40 minute question. So stay close. So, and then you'll have 12 seconds at the end to answer. But when I wouldn't see as much Key & Peele when it's out, maybe out of jealousy, but you know, I would see it here and there. And then with the

TikTok and Instagram, I start seeing it. And then when I watch a few now more come up. And so it's a whole, probably another world of fans. That is great. Yeah. It's gotta be. It's insane. It's incredible. Cause now we see, we'll be walking down the street and there'll be like a 15 year old.

And a 15 year old is like, oh my God, I love, I love you. You're, you're, you're, yeah, you're, and I go, wait a minute, you're 15. I'm trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, wait a minute. You were, you were four when our show came out. We need to talk about it a little bit because someone's like, God, I love your YouTube show. And King is like, what?

Oh, yeah. Oh, right. Sketches from 10 years ago that are now on YouTube. That are now on YouTube and on TikTok. They think those sketches are new sketches. What was it originally? Was it Comedy Central? It was on Comedy Central. Yeah, it was on Comedy Central when we started. God, they don't do that kind of stuff anymore. It doesn't seem like it. It's YouTube is the place, man. I mean, because Comedy Central, you're inside Comedy Central. Now you potentially have 5 billion people digitally. You're everywhere. And your sketches were...

By and large, evergreen, right? I mean- Yeah, by and large, evergreen because the writing process took so long, we couldn't do topical stuff, which worked out to our advantage.

Yeah. One show on TV during it live, having topical, I think is enough. It's not easy. You're right. You're right. Well, also shooting, filming, editing, and then coming out with a release date, you know, it's like too hard to figure out like what's going on in the news that week. It wouldn't even make sense. No, I love the excessive celebration. Can I talk about that one? The football one? Sure. Because that probably wound down as hard as I'd seen anything wound down. Starting out with just people...

I guess it started with the idea that you can get penalized for celebrating too much if you get a touchdown. If the ref says that's too much and you take it to such absurd lengths and build it

Do you want to talk about that was a huge one for you, right? I mean, that was a huge one. In fact, it was also because it got emulated by actual football players. Oh, they actually did some of the moves. Yeah. Yeah. Actual football players in real life would do like that. And they get fined for it. Yeah. And then we get fine. Yeah. And so we, I think that part of what it was is, is, is that,

once again, it goes back to that theory of starting as real as possible, starting at that three or that five and just build it. And that one doesn't go to 600 million or anything like that. That one just goes to like 48, but it's still, it kind of exists real enough that it could, it's like you could see a player and their ego doing that in real life. And it really, it really, it really was, it was so much fun. And yeah,

We did actually, I did at the Pro Bowl a few years ago, we did a video that Elle directed and created.

That was really funny. The NFL, we're both football fans. The NFL, we've been doing a bunch of things. And I was the head writer for the NFL Honors that Keegan hosted last year and wrote a musical silly number for him with singing in the audience with Gronk and Roger Goodell. So at the Pro Bowl, they asked us if we would do something with touchdown celebrations. And they'd asked if we could make up a character that's like a touchdown celebration coach.

So I pitched Keegan and Roger and the NFL this idea that his name would be Jim Light Brown after Jim Brown. That's funny. Silly pun. So they wouldn't go with Jim Light Brown, but they did. They wouldn't do it. They wouldn't do it. Seems like sort of in the middle. You could get away with that maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I happened to be born in the Bronx. So I was like, okay, what about Boogie Down? Boogie Down Brown. So.

So we came up with this character, Boogie Down Brown, and we did a couple of videos and they're online. They're easy to find where Keegan is teaching very seriously, very heartfelt, teaching players the most important part of a football game, which is the celebration after the touchdown.

And we did a bit with the Detroit Lions with Matt Stafford when he was quarterback over there and a bunch of people at the Lions. And so I had to come up with a bunch of touchdown celebrations that were teaching them along the way. And it was around Christmas time. So I actually taught five or six of the Detroit Lions how to do a Rockettes kick line. You know, like knee kick, knee kick. That would look funny. It's in the video. And that weekend they scored a touchdown and did a Rockettes. Oh.

Wow. It's why it's so fun. It's fun that there were a couple of those sketches that actually were influenced, not influenced, that's the word I'm looking for. They morphed into real life. You know what I mean?

People are called a, I mean, I was saying we were at a Yankee game and Aaron Judge, it would be like A-A-Ron. Everyone loves the fact that they are now A-A-Ron, especially to tell Keegan their story. My name is Blake and everyone calls me the laughingstock. He's like, I can guess ahead. My cousin's Jake Wellen now and we don't call her Jacqueline anymore. We just call her Jake Wellen. Right, right, right. What was the girl, Denise? She's like, Denise. Denise.

Denise, Denise, Denise. Say it right. Say it right. D-Nice. Thank you. I think this goes wham, wham, wham, wham. And then she finally goes, D-Nice. Ah, there you go.

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At Robert Half, we know talent. Visit roberthalf.com today. Could you relate to this? I kind of, hard to articulate, but sometimes I think the most absurd sketches have five questions. You know, like, why is this guy a substitute teacher? Wouldn't he have been fired the first day? Why can't he articulate the names? Why are the students reacting that way? They're not just leaving. There's three. But when you get to five, it's sort of like that's...

maximum absurdity, it seems to me. Like, Churchley, why does she have that, why is that person in drag or not? Who is this person? Why does she go on the show and torture people? What does she think to gain from the show? Who are her followers? What does she do after the show? I don't know, it's just kind of that substance. You have to have the wrong answer to every one of those questions and then it's a sketch. Right, right. It's like, well, we can't

prove all these so it's a sketch so it's a sketch yeah listen listen barbara it's barbara i said barbara you know it's just that who is that guy does he know he's insane yeah right right i don't but more piss can i ask you about like um mad tv was sort of its own lane i don't know if it's still i was on for a long time you were on it for five years

And it seems like there's the SNL crew and then there was the Mad TV crew and just learning that you were the only former Mad TV, which kind of surprised me.

player to host SNL. So do you think there's a, is it a Coke and Pepsi? It is a yin and yang. What is the sensibility of mad TV versus SNL or the, or the aesthetic? There was, I think the aesthetic. Is that a Lorne question? That might be a Lorne. Spell aesthetic first. I want to see if you could do it. It starts with a name. Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting. I think the biggest difference was there was a really unapologetic

naughtiness about bad TV that, that I think it was almost like, yeah, it was very body and raunchy. And I think because it was flying under the radar a bit more, there was that sense of that. We were really, we really are going to push the envelope as much as we underdoggy. Yeah. It was very underdoggy and very, we can do whatever we want and rough around the edges. And there was this sense of also like, you know, we would get to do those 10 to one sketches. It,

Earlier in the show. Yeah, yeah. So for those people who are listening, you guys can help me with this. You guys know a 10 to 1 sketch is a sketch on Saturday Night Live that would happen 10 minutes before 1 a.m. or 5 minutes before 1 a.m., which will be one of the experimental sketches or experimental video.

videos or really super absurdist sketches yeah or or sketches that got very few very few laughs during the dress show as well during the dress during the dress yeah but they do like but they're sometimes the best you know yeah the best yeah right exactly and i think usually comedians and and sketch performers love those sketches like adore those sketches yeah and and

And we used to get to do that. We used to fight a lot with our executive producers on MADtv, but they would often let us do those sketches smack dab in the middle of the show. You know, you always say those credential sketches for the beginning, but they would let us do that. And so that was, to me, the biggest challenge.

That was the biggest kind of difference between the two shows is how bawdy it was. And also that they were pushing, pushing kind of an ethnic envelope too. Cause there were at one point in time, there were four of us, there were four African-Americans on the show at the same time. And that was something that you, you weren't seeing as much. I don't think that happened on SNL. No, no, not for at once. We also had in living color.

I think Dana, probably that was more when you were on when that was pretty huge. Oh yeah. And it was trickling into us because Chris Rock, when he left, went to In Living Color.

And, uh, but it was like the final year. It was sort of had its heyday. It was winding down, but man, they were doing, uh, it was that they were blew up so big doing so much crazy shit. I think we were jealous on SNL. You're like, I wonder if we could get away with that. And, but we really, it wouldn't have been our brand right then. And there was like, it would have been copying because they blew up. And then you've got that. Then you mad TV was always bubbling under with a good sketch here and there you'd hear about.

And then they went up against SNL, I think, on Saturday. Was that for a long time? Yeah, it was most of the time. So you guys would start at... We'd start at 11. And then all the programming at 11.30 is like... You never wanted your sketch to be on at 11.30 because SNL was about to come on. Oh, they might switch, yeah. And people would switch over. But you guys weren't live, right? Were you pre-taped? We weren't live. We were not live. No, no, no, no. We were taped. Because my theory about SNL, I'd like your opinion on this, is that it may be accidentally...

went and became a reality show that people love and that you've got a football player or an actor trying to do live sketch comedy. That's so, cause for me, sometimes if SNL has a bad show, it's still fascinating if the host is awkward and reading off the card. So there's, it's a bit of a train wreck. It's a high wire act. So it, that element is always there, but why you guys just wrote the book in the history of sketch comedy. Why do you think it's lasted a half century?

You don't have to. David? No, they're thinking. They're thinking. I think that's... They might have the right answer. I think one element is that, and second is that Lorne Michaels, he was not there for a few years, but he's resisted changing the iconic brand. Because there were years of Saturday Night Live dead, pre-taped for an hour, Mad TV is where it's at, changed the theme, a lot of pressure. And it...

We've interviewed all these cast members and David and I are like, we're there. Everything is exactly the same as far as how it's done, 8H. Maybe that's part of it. I don't know. I think part of it is the sporting event of it.

I think what you're saying about there's chaos of it, and being backstage watching Keegan get ready for it was pretty fascinating. Like you are about to go on. It's like a Broadway show. You have to go on. Whatever happens, happens, and there's nothing else like it. And when a sketch dies, at least on the East Coast, it dies on television, which is interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think what you just said, Elle, is a great way of putting it, sporting event.

Like it's because it's a, it's a live event. You want to watch it live. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And it's rock, rock and roll. You get, yeah. How did you like, so there you are live on SNL. And so it's kind of rock and roll energy. It's just a different energy than really cool films you were making on key and peel. So how did you, how did it, how did, how did you find it?

Well, having been at the Second City for six years. So you've done it. Yeah. So I had to remind myself, remember, you've done this before. You've done this before. You did this for six straight years. And the other thing I had to remember to do was just play to the audience in the room. Don't let anybody... I tried to avoid anybody talking to me about, hey, you're on TV. You're live in front of millions of people. Right.

So I try to play to like the 200 people in that room so that you're just in that room with them having a great old time with those with that audience. And everyone's watching. So you just get, they get to see, because it's more real if you're playing here instead of like, you know,

out to the rafters. Right. Exactly. That's what I would do. Cause if I thought what was really happening and in those days, 20 million or something, it would really, you know, but else since you, you know, Keegan so well, were you there along the week with him just sort of kind of going? Yeah, I am. I mean, they, they knew, um,

Everyone knew that I've been Keegan's writing partner for a while. So I actually was given an opportunity. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. I was given an opportunity to pitch some script ideas. That's cool. I pitched a few ideas, like Keegan and I together were on the phone with everyone and...

Higgins. Higgins. Steve Higgins. Know him well. Yes. Steve Higgins. So we were on with Higgins, who also, of course, is friends with Mike. So Mike, they knew that this was... We were going to throw out some ideas. And one...

It was a really, really interesting process. I was able to help cut a few things and trim a few things. And there, the Muppet sketch was fantastic. I mean, not the Kermit, the frog. Yeah. The Muppets. I thought, I thought that that's a, like an all time sketch. I, it hit me so hard. The,

the concepts of it. Yeah. We talked about this before, I think. It probably came up, but it's something about that sketch, I think, is like a, like,

like a hall of fame. He's not playing the substitute teacher, but he still gets to play the guy who is extremely. When they start beating the shit out of puppets and stuff, it's so it's again, it escalates nicely. And it's just a, it's a beautiful. I did. So one, one of the lines, and you might tell me if I, if I did wrong here, but, uh,

I was able to cut... So when they're beating up the... Like, they're about to beat up the Muppets or they're really upset and they're going to beat up, you know, the guys in the balcony on the sketch. It was like, you know, don't... You know, you're going to kill him like you killed that teenage boy. There was some line like that that I was like, I think beating up the Muppets is enough. Yeah, it was...

Well, it was already in the chaos. Didn't you say, oh, they must be veterans that lost their legs or something? That's already edgy enough right there. I don't think he also killed a kid. I would agree with that trim personally. OK, thank you. Thank you. Yes. So one of the things I pitched them, they ended up using a couple of weeks later in a different kind of version, which I learned. Oh, that's flattering.

Yes, I was told that's feral. It is flattering. You're told it's flattering. The other one. What did you say? She was told that was flattering. Right, right. That's what someone said when they used one of my jokes in their act. They go, that's flattering. I go, oh, okay. I was looking at it through the wrong lens. Yeah. So what was this sketch? They did, well, I'll tell you the one, they actually went to dress with a sketch that I had pitched and it was actually,

After two years of COVID, so Keegan, and it's in the book too, Keegan was in a Renaissance festival when he was younger. He got to perform and do bits and acrobat stuff and run around an actual Renaissance festival. And I thought, wouldn't it be great with all of the hashtags and PC and how politically correct and sensitive everybody is to everything?

what if there was a sketch about a Renaissance festival that had been shut down for the last two years for COVID and now they're back. So they're back and they're gonna start like, welcome back. It's been two years. So, you know, we haven't had a festival in a couple of years and we're back and we're very excited, but we are going to make a few small changes to the festival. For example, we're not gonna be using the word wench.

we've decided that wench doesn't work for this and that, you know? So it became like the joke bucket was how many things can you do? And then say, oh, and you know what? We're not going to do. Oh, you know what? The other thing too, is we're going to cut, you know, Keegan, whatever Keegan's character's name is.

is um he's not going to get chased by the cops and get beaten up you know chased by the by the sheriff and get beaten up in front of everyone while the kids throw fruit at him or whatever it was and he's like wait but that's my like that's the best that's my shit that's all i do and they're like yeah we just feel that maybe keegan you know getting beaten up by sheriffs

in front of small children probably is not the best look. And then I was like, and then you could say, well, what if we use someone else? They're like, okay, who would we use? And then like, uh, definitely not. We're not using Bowen. We're not going to beat up Bowen. The cops aren't going to beat up the only Asian guy in the cast. So,

So anyhow, so that was, and they ended up, it ended up, they ended up writing a sketch and we pitched jokes for it and it made it to dress rehearsal. And I think it somehow in dress rehearsal, it just kind of ran out. Didn't click. Just, yeah, yeah.

It's sometimes funny when it's funny at like read through and rehearsal. And then you get to dress and you go, what am I missing here? Something either start off on the wrong foot. It changed. It changed a lot over the last, over the few days. Oh, is that what happened? They were tweaking. As you two would know, being there where it was in the studio is important. If it's, if it's sort of cerebral in that sense, I don't know if it had a, if the sound broke, it would still be funny. Escalation. I think it got very, I think it got very stretched out. Yeah.

It wasn't the timing of the jokes. And Keegan and I, when we first met and talked about working together, we had a lot of conversations about jokes and turns and where you think it's going and why things are funny. And, hey, have you heard this joke? Like the science, the science of comedy and the science of hard jokes. And Elle has an encyclopedic

knowledge of jokes. Like she has, she knows jokes like you can't even believe. Well, what's one that pops into your mind? I don't want to put you on the phone. Like hard joke jokes. Yeah. Well, the first joke I told Keegan was, and forgive me if anyone's heard, but there's a little kid and he's smoking.

And this old guy comes up to him and he says, kid, you know, you really shouldn't smoke. It's not healthy. It's really bad for you. And the kid says, well, my grandfather's 95 years old. The guy goes, wow. And he's a smoker. And he goes, no, he minds his own fucking business. Yeah.

There's the turn. Yeah. You know, that that joke and the good turn, the shortest, the shortest joke that that the like all those I happen to be Jewish from New York. So I remember every old lady, old couple joke there is. But the short one that Keegan loves is the old woman yells downstairs to her husband and she says, Morty, why don't you come upstairs and make love to me? And he says, fine, but I can't do both.

I've got a pretty quick one. Ready? Quick. We hate people that don't laugh. They just do their joke next. Um, that's me. Uh, okay. So it's a good beginning. Uh, a five-year-old and a child molester are walking into the woods at night and you've heard it. And so I'm not, I just, the five-year-old goes, Mr. I'm scared. And he goes, you're scared after this. I got to walk out of here by myself. Right? There you go. Um,

I, I, I'm going to go to a commercial. Is that, is that, do you two write those kinds of, like, I, I'm terrible at really thinking of jokes. Like I would have to, you know, I do this bad, bad redneck character, you know, uh, red, redneck, either redneck comedian. And it's intentionally bad. I've never gotten it to work very well, but you haven't, it works on here. You haven't fought so loud dog to stay away. Go. What dad? Come on, get some.

Because the come and get some is the funniest. It's the come and get some. Come and get some. You ever crapped so big you don't know gonna get down that turtlet? Come and get some. I mad my sister only cause mama took me down. Come and get some.

but I... Jesus. Mama, turn me down. Come and get some. I told my... I said to Mama, what's for dinner? She said, roadkill. I said, what kind? She says, I got a ticket drive. Come and get some. So those are the... I could write in that character a little bit, but they're intentionally really bad, but really good...

twisted jokes. I don't have that skill set. Like a good turn on a joke is a good one. Do you have another one? A short joke? It's hard to know jokes. It's hard to think of them. Just great jokes. I have an X-rated one that I don't know if it's that funny. Someone told it to me, but if you take it literally, sometimes people go, ooh, what is mine? How do you get a dog to stop pumping your leg? Pick them up and blow them.

Okay. All right. I love that someone told it to you. He's like, I didn't make it up. Don't blame the messenger. I'm a nibbler, Dana. And I think you are too, but you always know me that I just have to keep the energy going. And I think because I learned from my dad, pistachios are a good source of just, you know, nibble, wake you up.

They're always delicious. I actually named a character in a movie I did called Master of Disguise. The lead character's name is Pistachio. That's how much I love pistachios. Yeah. Well, wonderful pistachios have literally come out of their shells. It's the same taste. It's delicious, but-

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We're back here with Elle and Keegan. So what makes you two laugh the most right now? Like, do you go to movies? You go to YouTube? This podcast? So I'm very fortunate. Christopher Guest also was someone I spoke to who's in the book, and he becomes someone we've seen.

we we adore and um he i think king and i have fun playing the gym game which is do you know the gym game no uh i guess it was christopher gus and uh who else was very sure and harry sheer so we're on we're on some project together what i don't know if it's final tap or something else or snl yeah it's

I don't know. Maybe it was around SNL. It might have been SNL time. They had that one year together, I think. That's right. It was Billy, Crystal. Yeah. So they have a game that they play called the gym game that I actually heard through a friend. And then I had, when I met Christopher, I asked him to, to back up. So I've heard about this gym game. It's basically that the, the concept, Oh, there was a, a,

There was a TV commercial with Jim Amici years and years ago that was Don Amici's brother, younger brother. And he says, hi.

I'm Jim Amici. And then he sells whatever thing he's peddling. And they thought this idea that every famous person has a younger, lesser known father named Jim. If you've seen someone that looks like Brad Pitt, but you know it's not Brad Pitt, you go, ah, Jim Pitt.

And that there's Jim Pitt. So, so Keegan and I have had fun even, even to even yesterday I was like, but, but Chris would be very upset because I try to make it as easy as possible as I say the full name of the person, because you can't, if you say Jim Smith, you don't know who you're talking about. So, and please forgive me, Christopher, if you hear this, but I, it's not the gym. It's not the official gym game. I apologize. But I say, Hey, look, it's Jimmy Brad Pitt.

So if I say Jimmy Brad Pitt, he can look around the room and see. You cheated a little bit. That's fine. That's pretty good. So yesterday we saw someone and I said, Jimmy John Goodman, Jimmy John Goodman. And he looked very, I mean, really uncanny like John Goodman. He looked like John Goodman. Bigger skinny John Goodman. So we do, we play the gym game. But I told...

I told Chris that I was with Keegan and we were in California and we were somewhere like south of LA. And I saw this really beat up hotel by the beach. And I said, look, Kim shutters.

Yeah, that's good. Shutters is a beautiful hotel. I used to do, I think Michael Keaton had a bit of like Hitler's brother, be like Biff Hitler or, you know, everyone's done bits like Eddie Lincoln, Eddie Lincoln. Eddie Lincoln. Eddie Lincoln, you know, those are the word, I like that. I also like shortening names. I'd watch talk shows as a kid and they'd say, so I was talking to John Carson.

And Eddie McMahon. That's fine. Everything is always slightly changed. Bobby, Bobby Mitchum and Robbie Redford, whatever. Anyway, but the gym game's fun because you see someone and someone else knows I'd be like Jimmy Barbra Streisand. It's a good code.

Your eyes have to dart, but you have to be very kind of nondescript when you're doing it. But you could also in conversation be like someone leaves or they were rude and be like, what just happened? You know, Jimmy Jam, Spranko, whatever, whatever, you know, whoever it was. So maybe perhaps you'd see me and they'd say, Jimmy, Billy, Mummy.

From Lost in Space. Some people think... Billy Mummy. He was from Lost in Space 1969. Sorry, I'm dating myself. So John Belushi has a brother named Jim. Tom Hanks has a brother named Jim. There are actually famous people who have younger brothers. And I think that's how you win, by the way. If you actually see a younger brother of a successful actor and his name is Jim, I think you win the game. No, that's it. Guys, I think that when I was doing the improv at the beginning,

Shit, I was like 21. I think Tom's brother was a waiter there, Jim Hanks. I think. We should have asked Tom because I think what he did is he was a waiter and then he'd get up on stage and try standup.

And he once said he would wear his waiter uniform, which is funny. And he would say, you know, Tom Hanks is my brother. And I think one of his jokes that I liked was people say you're a waiter and he's a super big movie star. Why doesn't he just give you a million dollars? Does anyone know why?

I don't know why. Why doesn't he give me a million dollars? He said, why doesn't he? I don't know. Why doesn't he? That would be so easy for him. A good way to own that because it's, yeah, that's a tough position. Yeah, at least people are thinking it, so you just throw it out there. But I guess he was a stan. I don't know, but it's tough. I mean, to be super famous like that. By the way, Dennis Miller, our friend, his little brother is Jimmy Miller. Who?

Jimmy Miller. That's right. The manager. Yeah, the manager. Great manager. Yeah. Who talks a little bit like Dennis, just laid back a little bit. Richie and Jimmy.

Yeah, they all have that. You ever run into Jimmy, he's got you in a headlock within like a minute. Come here. Yeah, he's good. He's yeah. That guy loves a noogie. He loves or grab your he'll grab your hand and like twist your hand. I know he likes to kind of. But you're a big guy. But with me, sort of, Jimmy, please. You know, I get picked up way too much.

With Dave, people just pick him up like a puppet. What are you? They put me on their shoulders and we walk blocks. And I go, put me down. Blocks. Blocks. All right. Keegan, you don't know this, but you are in Hotel Transylvania.

And you play the mummy, I think. I do play the mummy. Now, is this... Did you replace CeeLo Green? Is that my possible recollection? I was, yes. CeeLo was in the first movie and then I was in 2, 3, 4. Yeah. I think also...

For all those buffs of Hotel Transylvania, Dana's one of them. I was in, I did a character, but it wasn't even a character. I was in one of them. I can't remember. I love it. I don't even remember

remember that i don't i didn't get to really yeah i was i you know my i can't remember my voice but i i knew that it was a it was a non-starter you said i'm a vampire want your blood come and get some i remember that guy i don't even know if you if your character my character have ever interacted with each other i think we hang out in the movie a little bit like in a pack

Yeah, that's the thing. We hang out in a pack. Frank. But I got to come alive. I'm only glasses because I'm invisible, Dana. You might want to get a pen. I'm only invisible in the first three, but this one, we reverse and we turn back in.

Yeah, that was a good one. They do a good job with those, by the way. I think they're funny as shit. Can I ask you guys a random question? Because you're doing animation, so people ask me, what do you get paid for one of those kind of things? So for either of you, you don't have to say what it is, but there's certain things you kind of get paid more than you think you would, or other things are maybe you're getting checks in the mail. What have been some home runs for you financially?

In a surprising way. Like I, I did a thing for cat and dogs and it got, I did it to an actor. They didn't like what he was doing and they tried to get me to dub his voice. So they didn't use it. It didn't work because the animation was already done. I got checks for 20 years. Really? That's awesome. Trying to think what, what, what, what, what was the easiest job for the most money, you know, kind of.

Yeah, 10 seconds. Did you ever write anything? You got a big writing shit. Those are good residuals. I remember Nick Swartzen wrote

Benchwarmers with Sandler. I guess I came out of- Producing, right? Yeah. Got a fact check. So when you produce an independent film, you kind of learn every single job you could possibly learn on a movie or on a project. So when I started getting jobs that actually paid-

I was like, oh, well, I can write it and I'll edit it and I'll do the storyboard for it and I can do all these things. And people were like, oh, no, no, you don't have to do that. You could just write the commercial or direct the campaign. And then I was like, well, I have an idea for the campaign. What if I pitch the idea for the campaign to the client?

which I don't think happens that often. No, it doesn't. They consider a director. They say, hey, you know, we've done a whole bunch of campaigns together. They say, then I'll write and direct them. And Keegan is the razzmatazz. And so I ended up getting...

getting to a place where people would stop hiring, wouldn't use their agency. - The middleman? - Use us for everything. So between the two of us, we are kind of a, you know, we have this-- - A package deal. - One stop shop. - What would be your dream as a couple? Do you have a sense of maybe doing an indie film together or-- - Well, not an indie film, but I'm gonna direct a feature next year. I'm directing a grownup film, yes.

Is your husband in it? Yes. He is in it? I'd like to say that he was cast as a supporting role, and then he married me, and now he has the upgrade. I've given him an upgrade. Oh. So where does this lead? Are you the lead? We have a long game. What? So it's a sci-fi romantic adventure. No.

Three auditions and we made it. Open on the space. I know one of our publicists is on the call. It hasn't been announced yet, but it's going to be kind of a cop action movie with Keegan as the lead. Okay, let's guess what the title is for a second. David, what do you think the working title? It's an action gangster type. New York action. New York action. I'm going to call it 10th Avenue.

10th Avenue. Not bad. All right. Okay. 10th Avenue. I'm taking notes. I'm taking notes. But it's been, this will be the biggest moneymaker of my career. If I name this thing and get little residual check, if I live to 105, I'll tell my kids it was that 10th Avenue. Go ahead, David. Actually, it actually, I don't,

know how funny a story it is, but when I first wrote the script, it was years ago, I first wrote and I wrote it as a straight drama. And I put one of, like I have an Uncle Joe, my dad's best friend called him Uncle Joe. A real Uncle Joe? I have an Uncle Joe, Joey Saladino. So I called him, I said, look, I wrote this script. I'm going to send it out to a bunch of agents, a bunch of producers. And I don't want to put my name on it.

I don't want them to think a woman wrote it. I put the name Frank Saladino as the writer. I like it. And that is how I sent the script out. And I took a whole bunch of meetings and they're like, Frank Saladino, did he work on The Wire? I think I knew Frank. See, Frank's a con man. He did.

Frank's great, right? You know, I think I've heard of Frank. I think I knew Frank when he worked on NYPD Blue. Did Frank work on... And people... He has no IMDB page. He does not exist. And people think Frank Saladino... They just go, I like it better that a guy wrote this. Frank Saladino wrote this. Smart. If you'd made it Frankie Saladino, it would have even been... You could be a Frankie. I...

I actually, it was my nickname in college, believe it or not, was Frank Saladino. Frankie is a switch. Harlem adjacent. Frankie is an official like Robin or Dana or whatever. It's a switch in her name. A woman can be Frankie, right? And it's not a problem. Frankie's cute. I still have friends who call me Frank. I went to Syracuse and it was a joke freshman year and I became Frank for all of college. So I was like, okay, I'm calling it Frank Saladino. And that's how I sent it out to the world. And then-

then my agents at UTA were like, you know, there aren't a lot of women, female writer directors in the genre at all.

So they said it's good. No, I'm trying to think of game on it. So Harlem adjacent opens. Well, we're going to shoot it. Harlem adjacent. Okay. We have 10th Avenue. We have Harlem adjacent. Harlem adjacent. Okay. 10th Avenue. It's not titles are not, are not. I've got one a little more dramatic. Cause I just see a picture of Keegan, you know, play times over. Yeah.

And that's his catchphrase right before he kills the entire neighborhood. Playtime's over. What if you're still in your medieval costume and it's Sir Lance's shot? And you've got a gun this time. What if you're the substitute teacher, but you're back in heat? Yeah.

If you don't pronounce your name right, there's going to be hell to pay. And you got a big bullwhip. School's back for the summer. School's back. So you know Keegan's talent. You live with him. And you know how much he's done. When you direct this film, are you trying to tease out something he hasn't been able to show off? Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Seems like he's done 900 things. The research is unbelievable. All the sketch shows and movies and television. If you get a chance to see the opening of the NFL Honors last year, that was my baby. NFL Honors on YouTube. Yeah, and I wanted Keegan. I was like, I want Keegan to rap in it. I want Keegan's going to tell jokes. He's going to sing. By the way, he has a beautiful voice, which.

I learned he has a stunning, stunning voice. And I made it beautiful. I inspired him to sing at our wedding. And our agents were like, you sing Keegan? How come you didn't tell us this? Can I ask Keegan a question? Yeah.

Keegan, what can't you do? 'Cause I could do a lot of things, but I really can't sing. I could fake sing, but I can't sing. So you're doing all this sketch stuff, all these characters, all these impressions.

And now you can sing. Is there anything that's a little bit difficult for you? Can you dance, kid? I'm not. I'm not. Let's say this. I think I can move. I'm not a dancer. But, you know, that's a thing that people say is like he can move. He can move. But I'm not right. I would say I can swim. I can get from one side of the pool to the other side. It's Schmigadoon. Don't you have to have to dance or no?

The point is they never give me any dancing in Schmigadoon. You just watch it? He's the guy who doesn't like musicals. Because I'm the guy that doesn't like musicals. So the thing is, I love them in real life, which is the thing is I absolutely love them in real life. You can watch dancing. That's another thing you've got. I don't,

Here's the inside baseball thing. On this subject, I found interesting. I know someone who works with Jimmy Fallon and when Justin Timberlake would come on and they're doing this very advanced choreography and Justin's obviously super talented, but Jimmy, could you show it to him once?

And he's got all the steps down. You know, he just has that skill set of really being able to do choreographed dancing. He's good at it. I mean, God, half his show is pre-tapes. I wouldn't be able to do that. It's so hard anyway. And then pre-tape after, learn a dance, pre-tape, learn this. Go to Coney Island with J-Lo. It's like every time...

There's something going on. Anyway, enough about him. Sorry to answer your question, Dana. I definitely try to say, I know that Keegan wants to do more action and things like that. So,

So I write, I'm writing for him really fun things for him to do. So I'm writing for him things that I want to see him do that I know he can do. I love the genre. I do like revenge movies. I like kick-ass mob stuff. You know, I love Sopranos. I love the Scorsese stuff, Goodfellas. So it'd be fun to see Keegan in an environment like that, you know? So that was a very long, long answer of yes, this is,

This is something we want to do. It's very intriguing, this movie. I took the drama. I took a lot of the drama. I made it more. Well, one of our both of our favorite movies is Midnight Run. That's what I was going to ask you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

So in an action movie, but we say it's a comedy, but the bullets are real. It's kind of the way we describe it. I think if you put someone who can operate in all these different comedy frequencies, that's very intellectual. Someone like Keegan, and you put them in a world that's heavy, you know, I'm not saying taxi driver level, but there's big laughs to be had there. Out of seriousness. Always, always, always.

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I know. And it's not learning a language when you're older, you know, over the age of 20 is difficult. You know, I mean, all the high school Spanish I took grade school Spanish, you know, all I can say is Ola and hasta luego. So it goes out of your head. So now you have Rosetta Stone, David, tell them about it. Well, Dana, you know, more than anyone trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users in 25 languages. Uh, I mean, my gosh, uh,

They have Spanish, French, Italian, German. I don't think you can throw them a curveball. I think they're going to know. What don't they have? The language you want. Yeah. And immerses you in many ways. There's no English translations. You know what I'm saying?

They, uh, I know English. You need a Rosetta Stone for English. No English translation. So you really learn to speak and listen and think in that language. That's the whole idea of Rosetta Stone is that it sticks to your head. It sticks to your brain. I learned German out of a book. It just doesn't stick as hard. So this is, this is the way to do it. Designed for long-term retention.

There's a true accent feature. It gives you feedback on your pronunciation. Yes. And of course there's desktop app options. There's an audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. Yeah. So that's great. Lifetime access to all 25 language courses. Rosetta stone offers for 50% off a steal. And I, and I do think that the off label thing that we're, I'm ad living now going off script is,

Is that when you learn a language and you learn to pronunciate the words in that language, you start to learn about the people who live there and speak that language. Sort of a subtle, intuitive way of integrating with the culture. A little different, yeah. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, Fly on the Wall listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off.

You just visit rosettastone.com slash fly. That's 50% off, unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash fly today. I was curious about, this is what I'm curious about, seeing all this and listening to you guys as an artistic person.

whatever capital A, couple, steeped in all this creativity. You know, what are the things, the tentpole movies that you share or movies or television or streaming or stuff you watch together and look at each other and go, holy shit, you know, or movies that you, touchstones that you might watch every other year or cartoons. I don't know. I'm just curious about how you consume all this, your own habits, consuming art. Yeah.

The show that we both just are in awe of is Barry. I think Barry's phenomenal. I never got... No, it's brilliant. That's real bullets. There you go. That balance of comedy and drama. That Barry is... Anthony... What's his name? Anthony Corrigan. Anthony Corrigan. Oh, the Russian bad guy. Noho Hank. Noho Hank. Noho Hank. Yeah. It's just...

He never makes the first choice. I'm not going to hurt you. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, I'm being ridiculous. But that, what do you love about it most? He never makes the first choice. It's like he always makes the 18th choice and it's perfect.

Yeah, he does surprise you with his rhythms, what you're saying. The way he reads the line, it's always a little what you're not expecting. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that nice balance between the comedy and the drama. And there is absurdism in the show as well. Yeah. But it's always based in something grounded. Mm-hmm.

Really, I just thought that Bill did such a great job. Bill and Alec did such a great job with that show. - You know what I just thought? - Love that show. - Oh yeah. - One of my favorite cinematic moments is the first Indiana Jones when Harrison Ford has been fighting all these people and this guy has his sword and Harrison Ford takes out a gun and shoots him 'cause he's so tired.

It's like that. That's kind of that feeling of Barry just being like, oh, God, now I got to kill this guy. Really? I got to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When someone won't stop attacking and fighting like, oh, fuck, you're dead. What about when he tells the girl how he would?

make his make her friend go insane if he went in her house and changed things around and the girl's just staring at him and he makes it sound so normal and she's like are you out of your fucking mind dude right it's like but he says it so earnestly because this is actually pretty easy um i just break in every night i just change your furniture around just make her go insane quiet and she's like

dude what are you talking about right right right right i just gotta say it's very it's just well done overall yeah without getting in one of those great shows what about movies

Yeah, five seconds. I said Midnight Run is... Midnight Run. Midnight Run is such a killer. Okay, that's something, yeah, that's just one of those movies. I love it. That's a classic. Midnight Run is one of those films. It's just, there's, everything's right about it. Yeah. Even just Joey Pants on the phone and the guy next to him trying to punch him in the gut while he's on the phone. Like,

Oh, the two guys, the two guys out in the, in the, in the two guys out in the, uh, in the desert, in the, in the, um, your phone booth, every little thing, like just every small, there's almost no one like Charles Groton out there. Yeah. When John, when Austin is, yeah. When he says, yeah. When the, when the, when he's smoking a cigarette and he goes to buy a ticket at the airport and the person says, would you like smoking or not smoking? He goes,

what do you think? Put the cigarette in it with the cigarette in his hand. And it's just, just small little jokes that are jokes, but aren't jokes at the same time. Just throwaways. Yeah. Throwaways that work and just beautiful behavioral stuff. That movie. It's,

It's so that's the thing you can get in film. You know, I love it, too, as I've never been in a good movie. I've been in a broad comedy, but you can get those little moments in film. It's so much fun. Digital cameras, editing, all the tools are so much cheaper. Oh, yeah. Midnight Run. So Charles, he was funny when God rest his soul, one of our greats in the 90s. Remember when he did his MSNBC show? He was he was a talk show host for a while.

I don't know if you remember that. No, I don't remember. And I came on and he said, I want you to do the whole interview. I used to do him perfect. I couldn't get it now. I do the whole interview as Johnny. So I had to stay in Johnny Carson for 20 minutes with Charles Grodin. And it's exhausting. Grodin is a rare talent that we don't have one like that. I don't think we don't have it. Yeah, you're right. We don't have another Grodin right now. Well, you know,

I'm sorry. Do not blame. Defending your life. Albert Brooks. But he's not been as busy lately. Albert, that's pretty close. Where are you? Are you listening, Albert? Defending your life was one of my favorites. Oh, yeah. That's not the casino one, is it? That's a different one.

That's across America or something. Defending your life is the one with him and Meryl Streep where they're in kind of a way station. Yeah. You'll be thinking of movies after we stopped the podcast. It is sort of like, I'll say Stanley Kubrick, Martin Scorsese, uh, Quentin Tarantino, uh,

Who did Alien? Sorry. And Gladiator. Ridley Scott. Ridley Scott. James Cameron. James Cameron. Jimmy Cameron. True Romance. True Romance. True Romance is a hit. Christopher Walken, is that where he has the speech about... Yeah. Where he has the speech with Dennis Popper. Yeah. Yeah. One of the greatest scenes in cinematic history. Yeah. That, you know,

That scene in that trailer. Oh my God. You give me chills because I've watched that and I've shown it to people, just that scene as far as just sort of a perfect scene with Christopher Walken being Christopher Walken, Dennis Hopper. Especially when you watch the whole movie and you ramp up to it and you hit it. It's like, oh my God. And when the guy knows he's going to die and gets the cigarette and stuff, it's beautiful. I may watch it afterwards. It's everything. Yeah. Yeah. I also love the first Bourne movie. Yeah.

I'm a huge Doug Liman fan. Oh yeah. Jason Bourne with, with Maddie Damon. Yeah. The first, the first for an identity is so simple and it's done so well. The first one. Oh, the first. Okay. I like any meme that has some kid doing something stupid and karate and falling down. And then you cut the guy going, Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne. Oh yeah. It's so funny. We, we, um, we are, we are a little obsessed with the wrong missing. There you go, Dave. Hey,

Told you. There is a place in our, The Wrong Missy has a very special place in our heart. The cliff, when she goes off that cliff. Oh, fucking shit. Three days of shooting her whomping on that cliff. Oh my God, that was so good. Yeah, that movie just popped. It's great. I've recommended The Wrong Missy, but when I do it, I apologize when I recommend it. But I go, it's, you will laugh out loud. It is so good. And then you're going to be mad that you laughed out loud. Yeah.

the opening scene because it's very a hard R movie the opening scene we're on a date I'm this kind of nerdy guy Dana and she goes she starts going quit I fucking me and I'm like I'm not and she's like no this dick behind you and it's like this huge wrestler guy and he goes I'm not doing shit and she goes fuck you my boyfriend's gonna kick your fucking ass I'm like this is the first day of shooting because she was supposed to say some of that and then like just keep going keep going and to keep it within reason but

every take we'd start laughing and I'm like, God damn. And it was, it was kind of hard because I was a straight man and it's hard to be a straight man. And it's so funny to watch her go nuts. So everyone would just try to help feed her stuff. Like, cause she's so good on her own. She doesn't need anything, but it was such a fun movie. Cause that, that was the first day of shooting. So you start to go, Oh, this might be good because it's, if we can keep doing this kind of shit, it is insane. Yeah. Thank you. Have you seen it?

Have you seen The Wrong Missy? Oh yeah, he's going to. Oh yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, I just thought she was brilliant in it. I mean, it was like a tour. I've said tour de force three times on this podcast. This is the third time. But that's a true like a star is born. I mean, and Jim Carrey-esque, you know, the physicality and her commitment and the staging of it and everything about it. It just worked. Also out of nowhere, like no one. Plus it's a movie when I'm in it, they're probably looking to me to be like,

Oh, how funny is he going to be in this? And then she's right next to me killing it. And you're like, no, this is where you look in this one. You know what I mean? They're like this one in this one. I was like intrigued by the script. Cause I go, Oh, this is kind of like meet the parents where I'm the Ben Stiller. Everything's happening around me. Nick Swartzen's weird. Everyone's weird. And I'm trying to hold it down. And that's a fun thing to play. Like Jason Bateman does it a lot, you know? And he's not part of the, it's fun to go.

That's an important job too, I keep telling myself. And so to watch it all unfold and have it do well was a lot of fun. Can we do a shout out to Cecily Strong before, you know? Yeah. And you and her and Schmigadoon. The second season is out or where are you at? Second season's out. Yeah, second season is finished. So you can watch that whole, your person can binge that season if they want to. They call it Schmigago. Schmigago. Schmigadoon. Binge the shit out of it.

Also to sum up Dana, I want to say Keegan is from Southfield, Michigan. I'm from Bloomfield Hills. He was adopted as a child. I was told I was adopted. We have a lot of things in common. What are you reading? That's all we have in common. That's it. One last thing I had for him. Okay, go ahead. We can take a break and come back. Your experience playing Obama's anger translator.

Just that White House correspondence there. That must have been sort of an out-of-body...

kind of gig. I mean, how'd that come about? It was a weird one. It was, uh, I remember I had, I had spoken to one of his junior speech writers and they were asking if we wanted to do something sometime. And I was like, yeah, that would be wonderful. And they got in contact with my manager at the time. And he was like, do you think it'd be possible for you to go to the white house correspondence dinner and do this thing? And I said, yeah, let me, let me talk to the speech writer. So I spoke to the speech writer. He wrote the speech and

He wrote the scene for us. And it was... I remember rehearsing it so much that I knew Obama's lines and my lines. It was so...

to me to get it, to nail it. Cause I figured he's got other things on his mind, right? He's not just thinking about the speech. It's the president. He's got other stuff going on. He wants to jump in. He's like, oh, this is next do this, but you've rehearsed. So you're ready. Exactly. Right. Yeah. I had to be ready. And he was a hell of a straight man. He was so. Yeah. He's funny. He really, he gets comedy, like he gets comedy and it was really, really fantastic. And, but I remember not thinking about,

about the magnitude of the moment until literally seconds before I walked on stage. I mean, seconds, because I had just been rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing. And then all of a sudden I'm backstage and I hear him go, I'm going to bring in my anger translator, Luther.

And then I start to enter. And as I enter, I'm like, I was like, I'm in character, but my heart, all of a sudden my heart was trying to catch up to how nervous I should be. When was your first laugh? Was it, did your first line get a big laugh? And then you kind of, I mean, you just,

Right away. Just the intro probably got a laugh. Yeah. First, there were people in the audience who knew the character. Yeah. The majority of the people in the audience did not know the character, but there were people in the audience who knew the character. And so that kind of calmed me down when I heard people go, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And I was like, okay, all right, we're going to be all right. And then the first joke came out, it murdered first joke, first joke murdered. And so then I knew I was going to be okay. Just look over. And he was just, he was just killing it as the straight man. Killing it. It was really good. Yeah, it was pretty good.

Can I ask one more question? Sorry, we keep ending. So you guys have been married four years, and now I've gotten to know you as a couple. Five years. You've been married five years now. I think it's four. I checked. But anyway...

How do you resolve conflict? Or do you go to therapy, marital therapy? Or is it you have such a flow at this point in your lives with each other? Or how's the marriage going? You seem very happy. But sometimes there's a lot of tension underneath. I'm kidding. I was like, this is your last question. The work stuff is easy, which is odd because I feel like

people are always like, I couldn't work with my wife or I couldn't work with my husband. And they go, how do you do that? I said, well, we were friends and we were working together and figuring out how to work together before the other stuff. Before you became romantic? Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. That's a big, big difference. So you're friends. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So we're friends, like similar sense of humor. We, um,

No, what is it that we- Well, we get along really well. Our minds kind of work as one. It's amazing. We really do. It's like we finish each other's sentences. Sandwiches. Sandwiches. Those sandwiches. Can I ask you a romantic question? Because I've never had that experience. I've been married for 71 years, but we're happily married. But this idea that you're friends-

And then maybe at some point, one of you realizes subconsciously, consciously, well, this feels like more than friends to me. Like I'm really physically attracted. So there's this moment where you're just friends and then you start making out. What's that like? Do you laugh about it? Like, cause you're just pals for how long? You're scared that the other person might, it might ruin everything. Go, what the fuck? I thought we were friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean. I think, I think we both,

because we didn't meet until we were in our 40s. And Keegan was separating and didn't have children, but he was going through his separation. And I was kind of like, look, you know, I want to stay away from all of that. You go do what you got to do. Yeah, yeah. I think basically...

the big thing was is what is a partner and what is a friend and what does a friend mean and what does it mean to be a good partner to someone and partners are people who inspire each other they support each other they provoke each other they try to bring out each other's strengths i mean ideally that's that's what you want in a partner and when we were friends and i knew keen peel was going to be ending soon

And I actually was lucky enough. I was able to go to a couple of tapings of the show and I brought some friends to see him and see the show. And it was really phenomenal to be there and see those interstitials before the end. I said to Keegan, if you can do anything after King and Peele ends, anything in the world, you had a silver platter and you put anything on it and you didn't have any story standing in your way about what you could do.

You didn't have a story standing in your way. What would you do? And it was a really like, it was a question that really threw him. It was difficult to answer. And then, and then eventually he said, I want to do Shakespeare and I want to be Jason Bourne.

And I was like, so you have theater agents. You can talk to your theater agents. You can fly to New York and meet with everybody and tell them you want to do theater. And within a year and a half of that conversation, Keegan was at the public theater with Oscar Isaac in Hamlet.

Doug Liman and I have become friends over the years. I said, "I can introduce you to Doug Liman." And Doug put Keegan in an action sequence in a TV show. And I was like, "You can do any of these things. You're the only person stopping yourself from these things. You're the only one standing in your way." And I think that kind of

That, I think that, that shift was kind of where Keegan and I, where Keegan was like, well, hey, wait a second. Don't leave. Can you stay around for a minute? Like, how are you able to figure out forever? You know, it's good to have someone you trust right there. I mean, there's a lot of positives to it. Can you do that again? How did you do that? What can we do next? How do we, how do we,

what do we do? And I'm saying, well, how do we, you know, as long as you keep asking the universe for things and find a way to share and give back, the universe keeps giving you things. So I was like, well, what do you want to do? And how do we share? And how can, and, and one of the things that on a side note is,

is that when I write for Keegan for comedy, which we didn't get into, and I know you're going to cut stuff down later when you need to. Oh, no, these can go pretty long. Don't worry. How do you write? We talked a little bit about this. We were at the Milken Conference a couple weeks ago in LA. They asked what we wanted to talk about, and I said, I really want to talk about

You can be mean with humor or you can be inclusive with humor and make people laugh. And for the last couple of years, anything I write for Keegan, if you see, he does not make fun of people. He does not punch down. He's not mean to anyone. I was like, I want anytime you tell a joke in public or on stage,

You can be funny and also you can lift people and be inclusive. You can be self-deprecating, but we've done a bunch of TV shows together where I give the writers a really hard time. I said, you are not allowed to make fun of Keegan. Keegan can make fun of Keegan, but you should not be. We're not making fun of the other people on the show, anyone on a panel. We're not even, even for the NFL honors thing, I called Gronk and I said, Gronk, these are the jokes. Which joke do you want to be part of?

And which joke do you feel comfortable with? And how do you want us to tell it so that you're in on it? Like, I want you to be in on it. And I think, you know, that there's something about the fact that the two of us together can do more good in the world than either of us could do if we were apart.

Oh, I'm so glad you got to say that. It was bigger than Pokemon. That's a good answer. That's really, really interesting. Well, Keegan, obviously, as a performer, has an extreme likability quotient. It's sort of a gift. I think Colin Jost did a... His book, he called it a punchable face, but Keegan is joyful when he's performing. I mean, you can tell he's having a blast, even when he's doing whatever he's doing. So that's cool. So you guys have a... It's a very mature relation. When you get together, you've already...

had life under behind you you know in their 40s yeah yeah it's very mature so you know all the tricks of the trade all the ditches all the stuff so it sounds like um

I'm going to say this is a good relationship. I'm going to give it five stars. We're going to come on the couch in your place tomorrow and we'll talk about other things. But it is someone you trust and respect, which you'd both have for each other, which is great and says stuff to you. It just, it's, it's like therapy, which I started when I was 60, but that's another story. But, um, it's great in that context. I will do that. You know,

it's very interesting how we get in our own way as performers. I want to do it. Actually, we'll do one. What you get, you know, and now I'm like, well, I'll, you know, I'll write one for you. Yeah. Just do that. Yeah. And you'll write one for me. We were texting during the podcast. I'm sorry, but Ellen, I, Oh, and yeah, yes. You guys are going to do Harlem adjacent too. I'm doing loaded and locked. So I have a bottle of booze and a gun.

Loaded and locked. Loaded and locked. They're Lancer shots, I think I wrote down. Okay, good. Those are all good. They're all usable. That's good. You would be...

Actually, I don't have a title for it, but I've been trying to come up with a name like his character. The name of his character has more than one meaning. I love those movies like that. I love it, too. Keegan, Michael Key and Elke have been our guests today. Love seeing you. Love getting to know people on these podcasts. Really fun. And I hope we run into each other or as I like to say, see around campus, the campus of show business.

And Schmigadoon is everywhere. I recommend it to anyone, especially if you don't not exclusively love Broadway musicals. It really rocks. You and Cecily are great in that. All right. Bye, guys. All right. Have a good day. Take care. Take care, guys. Bye-bye. Awkward leave. This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. No joke, folks.

Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.