Mike Birbiglia
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You know, David,

Growing up, and this is a true story, my family used to take road trips from California to Montana every summer, seven of us in a station wagon, air conditioning only for the front seat. And we would go and look and seriously, they'd be freezing up there and we'd be heating up in the back.

But it was always like where we stay, you know, and sometimes it got really complicated. I mean, one time we just could not find a motel in Winnemucca, Nevada. And so we just pulled off on the side of the road. So, you know, remember, listeners, your house can become an Airbnb. And actually, I've got an upcoming trip planned soon. While I'm away, I could totally Airbnb my spot.

And why not? My home could be someone's perfect getaway while I'm off on my own adventure. It's such a great way to make a little extra money toward that vacation. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. Great dude today, Dana. Mike Berbiglia. I'd like to buy a vowel. Berbiglia, yes. Berbigs, known as... Berbigs. If you don't have time, you say Berbiglia.

And you lose the A. Save time. Yeah. Mikey B., by the end of the podcast, we were very good friends. Mikey B. has a new special on Netflix, The Good Life. He's one of the great storytellers we have out there.

And he'll deep dive into his methodology about having a theme where he can go kind of serious and funny. It's very interesting. Yeah. Explains a one man show. What's the difference between a stand up set? Went to Georgetown, did a comedy contest early on. I did at ASU also. So we had that. Oh, we talked about that. We kicked and scratched about that.

Uh, he's a sleepwalker. We make fun of him for that. He does sleepwalk and there's some danger involved and it's a long story. And, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, something that's been a big part of his, uh, zeitgeisty material. And if you don't know him, he's well-respected comic out there in the New York circuit. Uh,

Give it a listen, and you'll know him more. We like to get people on here that you may not be a household name yet, but very close, and I'm sure he will be. He writes, he directs movies. He did a Sleepwalker movie, and he's working on a new one. So he breaks down his methods for us. And we have a bunch of laughs, so stay tuned. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wow. As I live and breathe. Yeah.

As I live and breathe. Has anyone ever told you that you kind of, when you smile, there is like your long lost cousin, Bob Odenkirk, just in this. Oh yeah, I just saw that. I do get Odenkirk sometimes. We shot a pilot once for CBS like 15 years ago where he played my brother. Oh, okay. I buy it. Is that the one that didn't go? That's the one that didn't go, yeah. We heard that saved your career getting away from Bob.

Yeah, whatever happened to him. And Nick Kroll. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I like the executive that passed on it. I mean, if it's something like that, you just say yes. Even if the show sucks, you go, yes, let's get all these guys under a deal. And then you start changing it or whatever you want to do. That's right. Sometimes I think that. I go, why are you passing on this package? It's too good. Did you think it was bad? Because, you know, I know Bob Odenkirk fairly well. And he would be...

He's very comedy is really, really important to Bob. Thank you. No, no, it's great. No, you guys are so funny. He's awesome. He said the single word non sequitur, but since you're smiling and you know, the single maybe funniest thing has ever been said on the podcast. Cause we knew Bob when he was like an underling, he was like an SNL and stuff, but I always loved him and he's a writer, but he's kind of struggling. It's in his book.

He comes on our zoom and like, you know, better call Saul was kind of like, you know, he knew comedians have like, what, what the fuck Bob Odenkirk. Now he's like winning Emmys as an actor. And then when he did nobody or the fighting one, what was that called? Yeah. Nobody. Yeah. And he said to himself, if this thing works, man, you guys are going to be going, what the fuck? He's an action star now.

It's just like, cause we know Bob from before. So it's funny. And there's a sequel day. We're going to let you talk in a sec, but I just want to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Good dude overall. He, he, if I'm not mistaken, he rode living in a van down by the river. You are not mistaken. Yeah. You are not mistaken. Gave one of the biggest gifts to SNL. By the way, do you remember when we met? This will be a really quick story. You may not.

I opened for you in Rhode Island at a college. Is that what it is? That's it. But I was on some kind of doing a little mini tour zone. I had a friend of mine, Mark Pitt, who was my opener. And no one told me that they booked an opener. So when we showed up, they go, this guy, Mike, wants to go up. And you know...

And you don't come off like a cocky guy. You're kind of assuming I go, oh no, what's this fucking guy? What's he going to do? I didn't know. I didn't know you. Do we really need him? Oh yeah. So, you know, I'm thinking, oh yeah, this is going to be a clusterfuck. This guy, I'm not getting good vibes. So then I'm watching you. Not good vibes. Well, cause you,

Mike is unassuming and quiet. And then I'm watching the show. I'm like, he's building and building. I went, holy shit. This guy is great. Yeah. Oh, that's so nice. I thought it at the time. And I do not think I followed you correctly. I think you left awake because it was clever and stuff. I made some faces, did some funny sounds. And after, no, no, after 10 minutes, it was like they were done. It was, it was like, you know, you absolutely crushed. It was, I,

I don't think I'd never seen you live, but you know, I grew up on both of you guys on SNL. So I would do in seventh grade. I remember I was doing at school church lady, Hans and Franz, George Bush senior. Sorry. And by the way, killing, literally doing your characters. No one really knew anything.

what they were from SNL. So I was just getting, I was like the seventh grade hack. So they didn't know you were from SNL. So you're doing your new character in junior high called the church lady like that. Yeah, exactly. And killing with it.

I was killing with SNL characters. Do you want to do it? I'd be fine. I would never. I would never. It would be the most embarrassing thing I could possibly do. That's an easy one to do. Well, everybody... I mean, that's one of the things about your impressions is that your impressions are so good

Thank you. I mean, your Biden is so crazy good that essentially it's that thing in culture where everyone retrofits their Biden. Yeah. They all, everyone goes, now wait a minute. It's like walking. Now hold a second. Everyone turns into a walk-in at a certain point. You go, oh, now I can do it. It's like a home kit. And guess what? And by the way,

It was the non sequitur. Guess what? And by the way, guess what? The fact of the matter is I'm not getting around here. I'm serious. I'll knock you out, Jack. Get your facts straight. Jack, I'll beat the hell out of you. Take my word for it. Calls people Jack. Yeah. How would I have known about the cancer? They couldn't have known. They don't do checks for that kind of thing. There you go.

What if they knew about the cancer for four years? It's like another thing. They're like, well, there's another thing we got to space out. No, but okay. So I used to do SNL impressions in seventh grade. And then I remember one, here's the mistake I made. I did John Lovitz's Annoying Man.

And if people don't know the character, he just shows up. Yeah. Dennis shows up to Dennis Miller's update and he just goes annoying man. He puts his fingers around his eyes and shit. I did it to this guy in class named Kenny who was tough. And I go, Kenny annoying man.

I don't know if I can say. Curse. You can't curse. Socked me in the face. Oh. Socked me in the face. Bleeding in science class, seventh grade. And I never did Annoying Man again. Don't you love the character? The name of the character is who the character is. Yeah. I just love that. Annoying Man is Annoying Man. We did too much of that back then. I think Santa was crazy. Spoonman.

And he had a crazy spoon. Opera man. We had a lot of man's on the show. I love metal on the head productions, man. I don't think they do it as much anymore like that. You know, just straight up. Here's what it is. What do you think, Mike?

Just building it out from who the people are. How comedy is started. Because we would have little jingles like, he's massive, massive head wound, hairy, or Lyle, be a feminine, heterosexual. And when I was out there, I asked them, and they said, oh, we don't do that anymore. Well, I guess it's out of fashion. But to me, it's so funny to lay it all out like that, present it. I think my favorite analysis of SNL through the years, because I've watched it since I was a kid, I still watch it, is...

When Seth Meyers said every single episode since the beginning of time, some of it is great. Some of it's terrible. Some of it's OK. And it's never changed. Very true. No, it's never changed. That's why we don't have a plethora of other live sketch shows in America, except now they're going to do one in Great Britain, I guess, Saturday Night Live and Jolly Out London.

So, but yeah, it's not easy and you're humiliated half the time, you know, you kind of just, it didn't really happen. You know, it didn't happen. The audience knows it didn't happen. Lorne Michaels know it didn't happen. And you kind of just, yeah.

Blew it. I made a movie. I don't know if you guys know this. I made a movie called Don't Think Twice years ago about Keegan, Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs are part of like an improv group where everyone's best friends. And then one of them gets cast on like a Saturday Night Live type of show called Weekend Live. And then everyone else doesn't. And it's about what happens in friendships when people realize they're not going to get the same thing. Did you guys have that when you guys got it?

Yes. Sure. That's the whole, that's going back to the improv and seeing people you saw. And now you got a little heat on you. And, um, but I watch people do it before me and after. So it's always just an odd, then you get on SNL and it's the same thing. People get in sketches and all their stuff gets on that week and yours does. And you go, Hey, good job.

Go get them. Yeah. It is a funny thing. It's so hard to cover. You're like... Because you're coming from your stand-up scene and your friends, you know, and then suddenly you're on television and they're not. And it's just kind of awkward. You know, Bobby Slane was like, I can't believe this is the last time I lie. I can't believe it. I can't believe this is the last time I lie. You, of all people, you. Of all people. You know, and Seinfeld was always... Because Jerry had...

you know this spectacular confidence even way before he made it you know you just see i met him in like 1980 he was in his suit and he had it all together yeah i've always heard that and then when i got on snl and went to some award show for comedians or something he goes he just walked up and goes congratulations you made it and just walked away he wasn't no mv nothing but um

I, yeah, show business is like, have you had that experience? Because what I was going to ask you is this, and it goes to an overarching theme of how you do your performance. When you were coming up through in the clubs, did, because a lot of times the blender's going, you got to follow a dick joke guy. You know, and so how did you survive those days before you became? Well, it was funny. It's like, I remember because I was a writer, you know, when I was in high school, I saw Stephen Wright live.

at the Cape Cod Melody Tent. And I was just like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life. You know, before that I'd watched SNL, I'd watched early Letterman, but then when I saw a comedian live, I was like, this is crazy. And he was a different comedian, like just a perfect linesmith. Yeah, it's like perfect, perfect comedian. And I was just like, I want to, you know, I want to do this. And then I just started writing jokes

And I had notebooks of jokes. And then by the time I, when I was in college, I was working the door at the Washington DC Improv. And- Great. Yeah, great club. Who came through when you were a doorman? It would be like Mitch Hedberg, Dave Mattel, and Margaret Cho, and all these people who are great. Dave Chappelle and Brian Regan. And it was great. And then when I would work the road after, when I was 22 after college,

I was working like hard gigs and I remember like I would open for these guys and they would, I remember one guy, he just said to me, he goes, you're going to make it. Like I would do like not great. And he goes like, you're going to make it. And I was like, I literally go, why, why do you think that's a great question? And he goes, instead of thanks, right. He goes, you're right. You write your jokes.

I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? That wasn't enough information. There's a lot of, there was a lot of road warriors that did a lot of dick jokes. One guy, I can't remember, but he got, this guy was so hung. They call him the human tripod, you know, you know, in loud bars. And so to survive in that environment, you start to get louder and faster and bluer, but yeah, you actually craft, uh,

Maybe he's saying, yeah, you're a crafty writer. You're writing good material. It will surface because if you get a crowd that listens, I think that's what you need. And some people can do it with a sound off. So the way you write, it's sort of like Nate does right now. He gets a quiet crowd that listens and waits for him.

And so I think you, over time, like I've never heard one negative thing about your act or anything. And, you know, usually it's me kind of starting. No, I don't want to fan out over you. I was watching. They're bad.

You know what I mean? Just to get the thing rolling. Just like, hey, you know, it's kind of shitty, but I like some of it, but it's just, you know. So I do that. But I think you've got a good rep out there. And I think that just grinds through and keeps your career going and keep getting better and better and better. That's a good thing to have because it's hard to stick around in the biz, as we all know.

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Hey, Podcast Universe. It's Brian Green from the mediocre comedy podcast sensation, The Commercial Break. Recently, TCB celebrated five years of existence, and we did it in style by doing 12 episodes in one day. That's right. We recorded and published...

12 episodes in one day. We had some show friends like Tig Notaro, Reggie Watts, and Tom Papa stop by to have a discussion with us. We took listener calls and reviewed all six seasons of the commercial break. And if you're hearing this message, we likely stayed awake for the entire thing.

So if you're on a long road trip on that family vacation where you try and get away from your family or you're generally trying to avoid responsibility like some podcasters we know, you can go to wherever it is you listen to your podcasts and check out TCB's Endless Day. The commercial break is also available on Odyssey's free app. You can download it onto your phone or go to tcbpodcast.com. TCB's Endless Day. It ended, so it's kind of a terrible name, but it's 12 hours of bingeable entertainment. Best to you.

I'd like to make an observation about that in a minute, but first I just want to know about your first set. Because everyone remembers their first set. So...

Oh, you know, it's funny. I just realized this. First set was funniest person on campus contest at Georgetown University. Nick Kroll was in the contest with me. Great comic. And the host was Victoria Jackson. Oh, really? That's a better story than I thought. Love it. Love it. You're so funny, Mike. You're cute. You're cute and funny up there.

That's who she is. I mean, she's so likable. I swear to God, I came off stage. We love her. I came off stage and I, you know, it was like me doing a big character. There was a musical number. It was bananas. Oh, you did a whole big giant thing. Oh, back then? Yeah, good job. And I walked off stage and Victoria Jackson, who, you know, I idolized watching SNL. Yeah, she's great. And she goes,

"You're gonna be a comedian." - I love it. - Literally the first person in my life to tell me I'm gonna be a comedian. I was like, "I can't believe it." - What's coming from someone famous, that means a lot. - It was a crazy experience. 'Cause she, on SNL, she would obliterate. - Oh yeah. - She would kill in sketches. - Kill. - So hard. - And super cute. - So unique. I've said this before, but when I was in,

the 17th floor. And I think I just got in the show and Victoria was there. And Lauren Michaels came up to me cause he just had talked to her. And he said, Dana, will you talk to Victoria and try to figure out what, what that's all about? Because you're, what do you, what does that mean? There's something funny there. Playing a character, you know, but she wasn't, you know, and that purity bounced off the screen and SNL, uh, this innocence, this true innocence about her. But, um,

So what I was going to observe about, cause I like, we have standups on this show and as a standup, you're, I'm pretty much good with a great standup for about 15 minutes, you know?

Yeah. As Spade said at the 50th, I get the general gist, you know, we know how the, uh, but with you and there's others, but you're, it's personal. And so there's a, a through line in a story. I know. Then I want to ask you about standup versus one man show and the one, you know, the blurring of that. But I found myself really compelled of this idea. When you tell maybe a story to your daughter, you make up a story. Then she pauses and says, and then what happens? Yeah.

And so you, you subtly ride this narrative. And so, and then you go for this moment, uh, where you just land a somber moment about your dad. You just say he felt sad and it just sits there. And,

And I'm like, yeah. So you and you're also balls out funny all the time. So it's very interesting. I found myself like I'm literally going to finish it. I only got halfway through. Oh, wow. Because thanks. I want to know what happens. So it's a anyway, that's all I had to observe. I'll let you guys talk now. Well, that's that's definitely the goal. Like what happened was, is I when I was in school, I was studying film and plays like how to write screenwriting and playwriting.

And I thought for sure when I got out of school, like being a delusional 20 year old, I was like, I'm going to be a screenwriter. Of course, everyone wants me to write films. Yeah. Yeah. They're all waiting. We're just looking for script. Get out of school.

And so the closer I got to graduation, the more I would talk to people in the business or adjacent to the business. And they're like, yeah, no one wants movie scripts at all, especially not from you who has no credits or credibility. Yeah.

And someone said to me, and I thought it was good advice. They were like, you should just keep doing standup because you know, you're working the door and you're pretty good at it. And then eventually you'll be able to make movies. And so along the way, I started kind of merging playwriting and standup into a thing. And so when I think of the shows, I think of them kind of like what you're describing, like movies. Like in a movie, you have to have the scene

uh, lead to the next scene. So then the next scene, so then the next scene. And if it doesn't have that propulsion, you just shut it off. Like people fade out. You're surviving laugh to laugh. Then the ultimate opposite of this. Yeah. You know? And yeah, but then I go, you know, like I think where I met Spade was over at the comedy cellar one night. Um,

like maybe a year or two ago. And that's where I work out the joke part of it. Cause like the joke, cause that's important too. Like you have to have the jokes work in isolation with audience members that aren't there to see you. That's the goal. That's true. And then because it's different than standup, because standup is literally like you're, if you go 30 seconds without some sort of laugh, you're like, what's going on?

But if you have a one man show and you're doing it like a story, you can have ups and downs and parts that are sort of dramatic. Is that what you're saying? Kind of. Yeah. And like, you know, I was lucky about, I don't know, 15 years ago.

Oh, 17 years ago, I met up with Ira Glass, who's the host of This American Life on public radio. And and he kind of sort of he kind of taught me how to shape individual like eight to 10 minute stories. And I was doing this moth storytelling series in New York. And so.

over the years, I just got, I got kind of hooked on this idea of like, oh, if you can have the jokes work and the story work and then, and the larger show work, then like, it's kind of a magical thing. Who else is doing what you're doing of your generation? I mean, I know you, you knew John Mulaney or, you know, John Mulaney and Nick Kroll and stuff. Yeah. Is anyone else? Cause it seems like you kind of stick out in this way.

right now. If you consider yourself as a stand-up, but you're also a one-man show guy. Well, I produced Alex Edelman's show, which is called Just For Us. And it's definitely kind of in that vein. I mean, like, Jacqueline Novak's... I produced Jacqueline Novak's show, Get On Your Knees, which is a little bit in that vein. It was at Largo a lot in the last few years. And really funny. Tidal's a bit, you know...

Billy, Billy Crystal had, I think it was called a thousand Sundays. That's right. That's right. A narrative. Yeah. Yeah. He's fantastic. John Leguizamo does it. Who's really good. He's another one, but like the, the, the, the format is, is actually really big in England. Like, like Edinburgh, like I went to Edinburgh fringe festival a few years ago for the first time I'd never gone. And I was like, Oh, like,

Like a hundred people are doing shows like this simultaneously, but it's just never really caught on here. Yeah. Yeah. Because with standup specials, I don't know now, but a few years back, it'd be like, you'd have your, maybe a current event chunk or you'd have relationship chunk. And then you might have driving in cars and our dogs are different from cats. And it would be sort of an archetypal kind of. And then when it's one through narrative with all its different tributaries, uh,

I don't know. It sounds fun. If I wasn't lazy and went to College of San Mateo, I would do what you do. Dummy. Dummy alert. You should, though. I mean, but you have a really...

you have a lot of great raw materials for it because you had that whole health scare in the, you know, a few years ago. Like the things that you could talk about are endless. That's true. All right. Thank you. That is true. I've distilled it now to just kind of going back to sounds and trying to get people involved with abstraction. So it's a wholly different course, but I want them like in junior college with my friends who were stoned, I would do

a Star Trek bit and it would go on for 10 minutes and stuff like that. You know, I've just gone full circle. You can do your thing about the hospital and play all your organs. Just give them all like a little personality. Hey man, it was a bot bypass. Two words that don't belong together. But he got one out of the two arteries, right? So he's 50-50. You can't judge it. Listen, that'll keep you in the NBA. I mean, in a way,

In a way, Shanling did it to a degree, right? Like he was very personal. It didn't have an arc necessarily, but like it was just very personal. That's it. When it's personal, that's also another thing that attaches. If it's just abstract jokes, but when it's personal, you know, I don't know. Who do you like out there right now? And I was going to ask you about this phenomenon of people in the last six, eight years, right?

playing stadiums or arenas. Like it was not so common 20 years ago. So what is that about? And would you like to play Madison Square Garden? I feel like, like, you know, there's a handful, like,

I'm trying to think like Atsuko Akatsuka, who has an HBO special, I think is really, really funny. I think there's this guy, Chris Fleming out in LA, who's from Massachusetts. Really, really funny. I mean, I think like, I love Tig Notaro. I mean, she's in my sort of class. Personal. Yeah, very personal. But yeah, it's weird. The stadium thing.

feels like it's got to end, right? I feel bad when I go, I'm going to Tempe next month and people are like, oh, Sun Devil Stadium? I go, no. I'm playing a theater. They're like, oh. I guess a lot of people were playing Sun Devil Stadium. A lot of people are one.

One guy is playing. I won't say who it is. He's playing Nebraska. They're setting up a stage in the north border of Nebraska. They have speakers all throughout the state. So he's booked Nebraska. That's a pretty big state. I hope. Wow. I would play the Four Corners. I've never. I saw, I think, one or two shows at Madison Square Garden of Comedy. And I was just kind of like, yeah, I don't know. It doesn't.

It doesn't allure me, but, you know, I like, like, I filmed my special at the Beacon Theater. To me, that's, like, the perfect big venue. Yeah, it's 3,700 seats. When you act work in a big...

10,000 seater. Was it the same thing or is it too small to listen to? I have trouble with screens. Nate is similar in some ways, but I think the screens must do it, I suppose. Otherwise, how? I open for

Jon Stewart years ago at Meriwether Post Pavilion, that was like 9000 people. And it was good. It's just like you're playing for television. Yeah, right. It's like the screens. It's like you're just projecting and you're causing a 40 foot screen. Yeah, I think it's it's it's great for your your pocketbook, but it's not. I mean, if money wasn't any concern or anything, what is your favorite size room just for you having fun?

I mean, what's funny is in LA, I don't know if you guys go over there much, but like, I think Largo is the best comedy room. 300. Yeah. Unbelievable. And, and then in New York, the comedy cellar is unbelievable. It's 140 seats in a basement. Yeah.

I really just the compression of the energy and it feeds around. And so for me, especially cause I'll just get into some rhythm. And if I'm getting that energy, I'm just going to keep writing it, you know, with some character. And, and I do like 100 seater, 80 seater, low ceilings, you know, for fun. Yeah. Like, like my favorite, probably my favorite thing that I've,

ever done in comedy is like being at the cellar and Chris Rock pops in and you're seeing him in front of 140 people, like work out new ideas. You're just like, this is the craziest thing. It's like a fantasy sequence of as a comedy fan. That's the fun of the cellar. I think it's wide. It's, it's about three feet deep. And, uh, like if you go to the restroom in there, I think Colin was on last month. I was there.

And I had to go pee and I'm like, no, cause he'll see me for sure. It's just distracting. Like you're, you have to walk right in front of him and everyone. And it's so small that it's too obvious. Um, I have a question about that table. The comics sit at, that's always curious to me. Who's allowed at that table. That's a good, that's a really good question. Even barely the comics. Oh, barely. Yeah. How's it? Some of the comics are allowed at the comics table. No, I mean, I love that place. It's like, it's,

Yeah, here's what I'll say. It's one table. There's an auxiliary table. There's a fucking spillover table? Yeah, there's a spillover. I think that when I was in my 20s and I was playing there, I would get

you know, it's the early 2000s. I would get murdered by, you know, Patrice O'Neill and Bill Burr and all those, Colin Quinn. Like it was all the tough crowd guys, Greg Giraldo. Yeah. And they would just rip me to shreds. I mean, it was just a, it was a different era. You mean if you sat there or they would just give you shit, that's who was sort of

Yeah, if I sat there. I love it. Or even like Jimmy Norton was like that. He was in that group. And I love these guys. But like back then, because I was like this wide-eyed kid. It's funny. I remember one time Todd Glass, who I know. Yeah, yeah. You guys know Todd. He's a brilliant comic. Funny. He came. He was visiting me in town. And he came and he saw those guys just rip me apart.

at the table like and he couldn't believe it like I don't think he'd ever seen anything like it and he was like why do they talk to you like that and I go I don't I don't know man this is I'm new I'm young whatever and then he brought up you Spade he goes he goes

the only other person I saw this happen to was David Spade because when he came to LA, he was immediately really good and young and he got a lot of stuff fast. And so people like came at him really fast. Is that true? I've never even asked you. That's sort of the way of the world. But yeah, that was at the improv. And the worst part was I was like, they're like, you're doing a movie already? I go, I guess. Aren't you supposed to? Is that...

I mean, I've done five sets. I've paid my dues. But the improv was a place where like it goes back to you saying you want to write movies, but to do standup was good advice because you have to somehow be in front of people doing something because people won't see you when they go. People in my acting class are like, oh, I don't do commercials. I don't do soap operas. I don't do this or TV shows. You go,

If you're good, they will find you, but you have to be in front of something. You could find someone good even in a commercial. Or they just catch your eye. You have to be out there. And to stand up, you get to be at the improv if you get on or the store now and

The seller obviously is very famous, but there's always someone, even if it's other comedians, like they might be writing something. You know who'd be good? This guy. Because you're in front of them. And so I got stuff because casting people would just drift into the improv and go, oh, I wasn't even here to see this guy.

but they'll just grab somebody and go, oh, they'd fit. You know, we should. And that really helped me. You did not look like a regular standup, David. You know, you had the long surfer blonde hair. You look maybe 16 when you were 22. I watched space when I was in college. I watched your half hour and it was perfect. Thank you. It was like a perfect half hour. You were like, yeah, probably young with that. That was so great because I didn't realize that was one of the reasons I got spots at the improv because I,

chalkboard lineup they wrote on the chalkboard in the old days and it was Kevin Nealon and Leno and Seinfeld and Richard Belzer and just guys that did not look like me and I was just from Arizona I was 20 and I had long blonde hair so I think Bud Friedman was like oh we need one of you just you just look different just get up there and mumble around I don't care. Oh sure.

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I do think there's no greater calling card than stand-up. If they know you wrote it, they can see you can land a joke. And in your case, they could see you're an actor. You could definitely, you know, and you've done movies and stuff. Sleepwalk with me. Do you bring that corkboard into your meetings to show how hard you work? No.

Is that full of Saturday Night Live sketches? The yellow ones are the funniest. This is all jokes. The pink ones are under construction. It's literally just, yeah. Are those your ideas, random ideas?

is yeah that goes back to when i was 18 years old and i started writing jokes and just putting them on note cards on my wall i still do it well they want me to have a background here so i'm gonna do that i think it looks like very professional like i'm so fucking busy if you could take a picture that's sending to me i'll blow you know what's funny about that is that it shows shows people that

It's hard enough to do your act when you see it polished. This is the shit that you're doing all day to get something that works for 30 seconds, like to get anything that works is so hard. No, it's, I always say that to people who are starting out in comedy. It's like, I write four hours of comedy to do an hour of comedy.

And even now when you have a good feel for it, and before you'd write something, it'd be like a random thing would work. But now you go, I think in my head, this will work. I did that last week. So I have to work on new stuff. And I'm like, these three will work. And two didn't. And I'm like, why at this point do I still not know for sure what will work? It's so confounding sometimes. Yeah.

Mike, have you ever written a bit or a piece of your special or whatever where you kind of thought, well, I don't know if I'm ever going to write something that lands this beautifully, like full circle, you know? I think like, yeah, my sleepwalking story is like that. And to an extent, which is like, you know, basically 20 years ago, I sleepwalked.

through a second story window at the La Quinta Inn. Did you fall? I've seen it. Did you fall? Yeah, no, I jumped through the glass. Okay.

And because I had a dream, there was a guided missile headed towards my room. And they told me the missile coordinates were set on me. And so in my dream, and as it turns out, my life, because I was diagnosed with this thing called RBD, REM behavior disorder. I jumped through the window and I landed on the front lawn of the motel. I took a fall. I kept running and I'm running. I'm slowly realizing I'm on the front lawn of La Quinta Inn in Walla Walla, Washington in my underwear bleeding.

And the, and the true, and the strangest thing is in that moment, I was relieved that I hadn't been hit by the missile. Yeah.

right i was like so i could see that would have been a disaster that story i could see where it's like it's so nobody else goes i've heard that from a lot of i've got one like that everybody jumps through a window especially la quinta but no i could see where you're kind of like that's why you know you did a movie as well right and you did yeah and you put mittens on after that is that the rumor

for a period of time I wore a sleeping bag. A doctor told me to do this, wear a sleeping bag up to my neck and wear mittens so I can't open the sleeping bag. So awesome. So I did that for years. For years I did that. Did he say stay away from missiles?

He said, say, yeah, that's probably the smartest. And maybe think about the holiday and next time. Maybe the first floor. I don't trust La Quinta. So one thing I'm kind of curious about you, because I don't know in specific, like you in your career, like, like when was the first time you knew, okay, I'm going to make enough money. This is now my job after graduate college. Okay. I'm good. This is what I'm going to do with my life.

I remember I had like one of those calendars from Staples and I would go through and I would in highlighter, if I had a club week booked, you know, it'd be like San Jose Improv and it would be like, and you'd write in parentheses like,

300. You know what I mean? Like $300. For nine shows, yeah, or whatever. Yeah, it'd be like Cincinnati Go Bananas, $325. Fuck, it's going up. It's such, yeah, yeah, it's such a small amount of money. And you would just, and every month I would go, if I can just make $1,325, I can pay my rent. And it was probably like,

I would say like a year into moving to New York where I was like, okay, I think I can do this. And then... But were you going in and out of town? Yeah, I was driving my mom's

station wagon that had like 130,000 miles on it. To gigs. A lot of them on the East Coast, thank God, right? So when you were traveling like that, were you the MC or the opener or co-headliner? I was the MC or the feature. I was the MC or the feature. I mean, I've just opened for, I mean, I opened for Hedberg a bunch of times. I remember

I remember I opened for Jake Johansson, who was a brilliant comic. Known well from San Francisco. Oh my God. It's like comedy school. I get to sit in the side and watch this. It's crazy. And that was my favorite part of it. And then I got Letterman from doing Montreal Comedy Festival. I did Montreal Comedy Festival in New Faces when I was 23. Wow. And then...

Eddie Brill saw me and was like, I think we could work on a set for Letterman. And I was like, that's crazy. Like this is literally between SNL and Letterman. That's like all I grew up on. I was like, this is crazy. And then it was like a year later. So 24, you're doing a set on Letterman.

Yeah, it was bananas. And for the crowd at home, it takes a year to buff out a set, right? It does. It takes a long time. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. They have to keep seeing you and go, change that word. I'd put that sentence at the end. I'd open it, and you're like, ah, it'll do good. The fear factor going on of Letterman. I know. What was your headspace behind the curtain when you heard Letterman announce you? How were you? You were...

I remember they came up and they go, do you want cue cards with your jokes, of your jokes?

And I go, no, I think I know the jokes. And then my brother Joe was there with me. And Joe goes, yeah, he wants the cute cards. Like he likes time to, and then I swear to God, I said my first joke, my brain, you know, you're standing on like this, like circle in the middle of the Ed Sullivan theater on the stage. Shiny black floor.

The moment I said one joke, I forgot everything in my act. And I was like, I am so fucked right now. I am completely and totally fucked. And I look up at the cue card. I'm like, there's the other jokes. What does it mean by says McDonald's? And you go, oh, I know what that means. Folks, I went to McDonald's last night. We're good. And was it a travel? He didn't invite people to the couch, but how good was that set? Was it good enough or very good?

I think it was good enough. I think it was like, you know, my agent who was a new agent at the time, like he hadn't, he was kind of, he and I were the same age, which is always good. It's so funny when people, people always ask you like, how do you get an agent? It's like, well, try to find someone who has like no career. No clients. You know what I mean? No clients. And now, now he's like the biggest agent there is. Like he, you know, Mulaney and Kevin Hart and all these huge people. But at the time he,

No, it was Mike Berkowitz. Mike Berkowitz, okay. But at the time, he had nobody. And it was me. He actually had me and Greg Giraldo. That's who we had. And who was a brilliant comic. And he was like, well, I could market you

as like the youngest comic to ever do Letterman, which was a lie. It was like fully a lie. I can think of lies. It sounds good. Yeah, yeah. So I would go to like Joker's Comedy Club in Dayton, which is like attached to like a strip club and like sells like dildos, you know, dildo straws in the lobby. Straws? And they would have, it was like for bachelorette parties. Yeah. And then they would,

And it would be marketed as like the youngest guy to be on Let's Play. It was like literally a lie. It was just a full lie. Not even funny. Yeah, yeah. Not funny. Not even. But young. But young. But young. And then I figured out how to do an hour. But it's like, it's funny because when you're starting out and I did like, God, I must have done like 175 colleges like the one that you and I did in Rhode Island. But like, I mean, I feel like you figure out how to do an hour.

of comedy when they tell you you have to do an hour of comedy. It's fucking hard. It's so much. I'm sure you guys dealt with this. I had the exact same thing because I was there just for a second and when the clubs were just being built basically. So I think it was Laps Unlimited in Sacramento and not everyone had...

I didn't have the time to go, well, we will headline you, but you need to do an hour. So that's why I got the guitar and did a few things. And I had props. I mean, I did anything to grab time, you know, so go ahead. But were you headlining on SNL? Because I, I got us now as a middle. So when I got enough fame to go, I was gradual, but when I got the headline, I'm like, I don't think I got fucking, I barely have died at my longest middle set was like 35.

And then you got to go to an hour. And I'm like, an hour or 40, 45 is good. And they go, yeah, maybe an hour. We'll put the checks out. What about when they put the checks out and it stops your act and it's tracked and you go, what? Yeah.

Everyone just... I remember I did. I had done this show called Premium Blend on Comedy Central. Oh, yeah. And someone saw me on it and booked me at a long defunct club called The Comedy Spot in Schaumburg, Illinois. And they just fully just emailed me from my website. Hey, can you come headline our club? I was, you know, you're delusional when you're a kid. You're just like, oh, absolutely. Just say yes. I'll be right... I'll be there next week. I show up. First of all, no one shows up. No one's heard of me. It's like no...

completely empty. It's like a new club. And I have 25 minutes of material. I mean, they're literally like, so you do an hour, the opener does 10. And I was like, okay, sounds good. I go out, I'm fully through my act at a half hour. And that's how, what's weird is that's how you learn how to do crowd work. You have to. I was going to say, you got to go to the crowd.

Yeah. Where you been? Where are you from? Yeah. Did you, when you went on Letterman, did you have special clothes or did you just, did you buy a jacket for the show or did you just wear your regular clothes? No, that was the whole thing is they always said you have to wear a suit because Dave likes, he's like old fashioned show business. Oh, he likes the Seinfeld look, right? Dave likes when you wear a suit. And so I bought my, you know, my first suit. That's kind of cool though. But sometimes it's bad because

You know, I don't think me or Dana would be fully relaxed in a suit when you're always wearing something else. And say, I go, what is the closest to what I always wear to make everything the same as a club? Because when I did my first TV spot, I walked out and I did like you with the cue cards. I was staring at the shiny floor and the crowd and the cameras going, I couldn't even think of my act. I was like, holy shit, this is what it looks like out here. I'm always looking this way.

And then I'm like deer in headlights and they're like, go ahead and go. And I'm like, oh, okay. Um, what else? Yeah. I had a related thing with, with you, because I remember hearing you talk about when you would do Hollywood minute on SNL and the people, uh,

were mad like because you're making fun of real people yeah they weren't really informing he started an industry kind of you know yeah yeah like i remember doing a show on uh one of those vh1 talking heads shows yeah yeah yeah and they were like what do you think of huey lewis in the news and i'm like ah blah blah blah he sucks whatever the joke was and i got an email from like a whole bunch of huey lewis heads who were just like yeah you fucking suck you feel who the fuck

are you we don't know who you are we love huey lewis what have you who are you i got a lot of that because i was new it was actually funnier that i was new and making fun of people because it was so out of the blue but it was i always say it was the era of people magazine where celebrities were so adored and you forget that they're all trash now but when when back then to say uh you see this movie yeah they could then they kind of suck in that everyone's like yeah wait what

"You just said they were bad in something?" And you're like, "Yeah, my friends went to that. "It fucking sucks." - Boy, it's out there now. - And you're like, "This is how real people talk." But they went, "Ian, you know who helped me "with 'Hollywood Minute'? "Bob Odenkirk." - Oh, did he? - Yeah. - Oh, it's hilarious. - Well, that's sort of the secret of Bob is he's like a silent killer, right? - Yeah, and he's-- - He's like super nice Midwestern, and then behind the scenes, he's like, "Actually--" - And he's smart, and he said, "Maybe frame it like, "you know, we were trying different things.

I think it was like, guess what? You're an idiot. Like we were doing stuff about celebrities and I think it was Michael Bolton. We know you got long hair in the back, but guess what? We all know what's happening on top because it was like really thin up here. Bob Odenkirk and I think it was Smigel and myself, but they had...

And I think it was primarily Bob, the grumpy old man that I did on SNL. Yeah. It's the reverse of what you would expect. Cause the guy's like, we didn't have flame retardant sleep. Where, if you went to bed smoking, you woke up and gulfed in flames. Look at me. What did he do? I'm a flaming corpse. And I love it. And that was all Bob. It was such a weird twist on the classic old guy.

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I just want to insert for a second because it's in my head that wearing suits on talk shows. So initially I'd wear kind of a loose shirt, sometimes a t-shirt, leather jacket, because the host was always older than me. It was either Leno or Carson or Letterman.

And then when the host became older than me, like Jimmy Fallon in a suit, I can't wear a t-shirt. I'm older than him. So then I switched to the suit. I just wanted to tell you that. I remember I was so starstruck. I was opening for Pablo Francisco at Caroline's. Oh, that guy's a killer. Unbelievable comic. Murderer. Killer. And Jimmy Fallon came because they had been in an acting class together. Whoa.

And, and that was another one where like Jimmy Fallon was there and he came up to me and I'm friends with Jimmy, you know, still today, but like he came up to me afterwards and he was like, he was like, I, he was like, you're going to do this. You're going to do this. Like you're going to make it, you know? And I feel like sometimes that kind of thing, like the Victoria Jackson thing and the founding, like it does kind of get you through the hard. It resonates someone real and show business said I was good.

That's right. Yeah. It's very true. Yeah. This is a week ago about that. Yeah. Jimmy told me about meeting you and thought you're going to make it. And I said, you really think he's going to make it? Tell him, make him. It's a crazy, I just do it. I do it as a sound. It's a crazy, but, um,

Yeah. I was going to ask you just this sort of overarching joke. Like, where are you now? Right now? Now you're going on tour. And when does this special come out on Netflix? Is this the good life? The good life is out. Uh, I think by the time this comes out, August, uh, May 26th. Okay. Okay. So, and you have, so it's May 26th, the good life Netflix on Netflix. And, uh,

And then I'm writing my next movie. My first movie was Sleepwalk with me. My second movie is called Don't Think Twice. And I'm writing a third movie, which is like an ensemble comedy that takes place at a wedding about a bunch of old friends. And I'm just psyched about it. Like, I'm taking some time off from stand-up. I'm doing a few shows with Mulaney this summer, being Fred Armisen and Nick Kroll. Oh, yeah.

outdoor shows this summer in Canada and Maine. But yeah, it's just, I feel like you never get

to do shows when you headline as a comedian, you never get to hang with your friends doing shows. So we're, I love that we're just doing a bunch of shows together. And you're just in the mix there. You don't necessarily close or open. You're just going to be. I'm not closing. No, I, John, I don't want to close. It's still stressful for John. Even though it's fun, he's got to go out there and mop up. John knows what he's doing up there. John's a killer. Yeah, he's a killer. So you're, I just want to ask for a second, like when you write a movie, like,

Do you have like three bulletin boards? First act, second act, third act. You start putting up ideas or you write it. You're writing it like a story. I do. I do two bulletin boards. I go. I go the story cards, the scene cards, and then the other one is the characters. Right. I listen to this great aspiring screenwriters. I listen to this podcast for years that

that John August and Craig Mazin do called Script Notes. And it's like 600 episodes about screenwriting. Craig Mazin did The Last of Us. He wrote The Last of Us and directed it. Amazing. John August did Big Fish. They're just great writers. And I just think like, I try to just think about everything. The reason I do the character bulletin board is I always try to think of everything being in relation to like,

what would the character do as opposed to like what would happen to the character? And would you direct this? Yeah. So that would be the ultimate creative play boxes or toy box. I can see is to write and direct a movie, get all the toys out there, all the actors, all this stuff, and then try to visualize your, your dream basically. Totally. I mean that, I mean like when I think about my favorite stuff, it's like,

you know, like James L. Brooks movies, like Broadcast News in terms of endearment. Yeah, Broadcast News.

yeah as good as it gets what was that no yeah i just you know mike nichols's career i love like i love the idea of just directing a bunch of movies and i yeah i hope that yeah and kramer versus kramer or um the graduate or oh yeah i'm just trying to think in the sensibility that you're going for you know great yeah i would say close to the yeah i would say close to the graduate like

I just love movies. And I feel this way about my specials too. I love things that have jokes and jokes and jokes. And then they kind of get you when, when you don't expect it emotionally. Tootsie. Tootsie was great. Big comedy, but you know, it has all when the dad has to sit dust and hopping down at the end and talk to him was,

But you know, it's another one, by the way, trains, trains, planes and automobiles. I feel like it's like that. I just obviously Tommy boy is that Tommy boy is. Well, that is true. We talked about Tommy boy recently with the director and Chris at the end in the sailboat talking to his dad. I mean, yeah, it had that. That was like a late addition, like how to wrap him up and how to make it all make sense. And it was so important.

The lore of Tommy Boy, because that's such an iconic movie for me, it's like the lore of you guys talking about how you were just doing it on weekdays, you'd fly to Canada during SNL, and then you'd fly back. What the hell? It doesn't make any sense. That's why we're all crazy. Sometimes in comedy, I don't know your particular style, but sometimes money can...

can get in the way and too many days to shoot can get in the way. Some, the first one was such a low budget, 25 or 30 days. We just didn't, we just kept going, going, going, going. Um, but in your case, how, how many pages will your script be when you're ready to shoot? It'll be, it'll be a hundred, it'll be probably a hundred pages and we'll probably shoot it. Look,

They're going to, they'll probably say it'll be 25 days and I'll, I'll just fight and fight to try to get 28, 29 days. I mean, that's the thing that's so hard to explain about making movies. It's like, you're just begging for time. You're just like, please. Cause you're just bleeding money. You're going to miss something. You don't want to miss anything. You're like, I need one more take on this. I need one more location. Just to just make everything better. If we could just, we need this. We need it. Yeah. Yeah.

Would you have somebody do a rough edit after every day, like a really quick digital edit so you can kind of see what you got? Our editor was this guy named Jeffrey Richman who actually edits Severance, which is a brilliant show. And he would do...

he would do assemblies, but a lot of it would be, he'd be, he'd be like, Hey, if you can go back into the kitchen and shoot a thing where she says like, I don't have the hammer that would really help us have this whole fucking thing. That's better than reshoots. I mean, the kitchen set is still around, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so basically just to sum up on this, it's like you're busy. Life is, life is good. Yep.

Good life, Netflix. Right now for you, creatively, it seems like you're very engaged and excited about...

this movie and everything you're doing. You have plenty of work. I'm excited about the special. I'm excited to make my next movie. I'm lucky. I live in Brooklyn with my wife and daughter. She just turned 10. We had a birthday sleepover this weekend. The girls watched Clueless. It was great. Is that 90s Clueless? John Hughes, all those movies you can show as your daughter and the

as they hopefully they like them all pretty in pink all those movies are just yeah she's got and she just started watching SNL and so like it's it's really fun to watch her like get why it's fun like get why the live aspect of SNL is kind of the best part of it

That it's just messy. And everyone's in a costume or wearing a fake nose or whatever. And it's just, yeah, it's silly and ridiculous. It's a lot of pressure. But yeah, there's not much more fun you can have if you're in a good sketch on SNL and it's really doing well.

It's pretty buzzy because you know it's going out live to a lot of people. Well, thanks, Mike. It's great to see you again. And thanks for coming on with us. We enjoyed chatting with you. And say hello to John Mulaney and Nick Roll or whoever else you're out there with. All right. Thanks a lot, you guys. Just love the podcast. And I am honored to come on. Thank you. Now I'm going to go watch the rest of your special. Amazing. Amazing. Thank you. All right. Be well. All right. I'll see you guys soon. Take care.

This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all this stuff, smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.