How I Built A $1 Billion Investment Portfolio | Chris Graebe DSH #782
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Because you have courage and you do these things and someone maybe is afraid to do something. I try to lend as much courage as I can and say, you know, you can do this. Nothing's stopping you or holding you back. You just have to try. When someone can capture just a little bit of courage, just like you did, it can change everything. Micro amount of courage can literally change someone's life forever.

All right, guys. Chris Graby here today. We're going to talk investing. What's up, man? And your journey. 21 years ago, you were a big partier, right? Yeah. I mean, my story is like Forrest Gump, man. I have literally done so many different things in my life. Yeah. Small town, Indiana, cornfields, grew up that way, went to college, didn't go to school, just basically partied like crazy. I had a pretty intense encounter, met people

Jesus became a Christian and everything changed. But then the door opened and I ended up on MTV. I was a cast member on MTV's Road Rules. Wow. Yeah. And that was during the spiritual journey? It was like six months after. Oh, after. Yeah. So here's the crazy part. I met them before I changed my life, the casting directors.

And I was like, I'm a party dad. They called ex-girlfriends. I mean, they did all kinds of stuff. And then that show that I made it on didn't get picked up. But they called me six months later like, hey, man, we really like you. We think you'd be great for casting for the next Real World of Road Rules. And I was like, well...

I'm not that guy anymore. I don't party. I don't do all this stuff. And I think for them, they were like, sweet, let's put him on TV. Let's watch him hook up with all the girls, completely melt down on national television, and it'll be great TV. And, you know, real-world road rules, what is now known as the challenge, they put crazy people in a place knowing that they're all going to be crazy, do crazy things. And luckily for me...

That didn't happen. So you didn't cave in? No, no, man. I knew who I was and what was happening. And I actually came from a place of compassion because I was those people six months. Yeah, so you were mentoring them almost. Yeah, in a sense, I was. We were...

Yeah, things that you'll never see on camera, but it was a really great season and such an awesome. It opened so many doors and just kind of helped open the next door, the next door, the next door. Wow. So how were they trying to test you on the show? Like they would just bring hot girls or something? Well, I think it would be like, you know, here's the thing about reality TV. People will always ask, and have you ever done any reality shows? I haven't, no. Okay, so people will always ask me, is it real? And I'm like, look.

Most of it is real because, again, the number of personality tests that you do rolling into these shows, they know this person and this person are going to fight, this person and this person are going to probably hook up, and they just put them in this crazy environment. And so one of the things the producer said, and it's so true, they have a camera on you 24 hours a day. Mm-hmm.

Like they can only show who you actually really are. And so that was the cool part for me is like when the editors and the directors and all that see what's happening, they're going to show who you really are. So yeah, for me, there were definitely, you know, girls there. But I had just made a decision like, this is not who I'm at, who I was anymore. And I'd done relationships wrong so many times in my life. And I was like,

I am not going to do this wrong the next time. I was like, and I'm definitely not doing it wrong on national television. So at 22 years old, I'm thankful that I at least had that foresight to make that decision. How were you able to make that mindset shift? Because before you couldn't control it, right? Yeah, before, well, before there was, there was,

so many things driving it, like history, insecurities, wounds, all that stuff. But then, you know, October 13, 2002, I had an encounter where I basically just...

I met God, I met Jesus, and it changed my entire life. And I knew at that point that before it was living for myself and living for whatever my whims were or my fears were or my insecurities were, and at that moment I knew what my purpose was and I knew what my focus was. Just from that moment meeting him? Yeah, in that moment it changed everything. And immediately everything changed because I knew I was like, when someone hits a wall and they're broken,

They're trying to fill it with whatever. Girls, alcohol, work, money, whatever it is. And for me, I just finally...

i just hit a wall and i was like i can't do this anymore and i was on a downtown street in nashville tennessee i can show you the block i was standing on it was on broadway actually um well before broadway was what it is today the party capital of tennessee or whatever but i was standing there i just stopped and i just i said okay i'm done i'm tired i'm broken i i can't do this anymore like i need you and from there

everything changed crazy yeah from there you became a pastor for 10 years yeah well from there i ended up you know on mtv and you know did what you know started traveling around speaking and talking about you know all kinds of things at colleges and universities and but then i got married and had a kid and i was like oh i should probably like be get a grown up job you know and so yeah i ended up being a pastor for like close to a decade and it was a really really

really fun adventure. And, you know, I tell you about this Forrest Gump thing kind of intermingled in between the whole pastor thing. I, I got a job kind of a year and a half stint between churches. I got a job as a yo-yo guy traveling the world doing yo-yo performances for kids at elementary schools and middle schools. You were nice with the yo-yos. I,

Here's the deal. I had never picked up a yo-yo before in my life, but these guys were like, hey, you're pretty good on the mic, and you can entertain, and you're moving your hands while you're talking. Maybe you can slide a yo-yo in there. And so I got to go to England, Australia, Canada, all over the United States and do a bunch. For my kids, my little kids at the time, it was like, dude, my dad is a yo-yo pro, and look how cool he is. Yeah.

So it was a fun little stint, but with little kids and traveling 20, 22 weeks a year, it just doesn't work. And I want to be home with my kids. Now you got five kids. I got five kids, brother. Yeah, I got five. I have my boy, my son, who's 18 years old, just graduated high school. Yeah. And then I have four girls. You got a full basketball roster, man. Brother, I do. It's the greatest gift ever.

I have ever been given in my life. I mean, my wife, obviously it's Jesus, my wife, and then our five kids. And I don't know. I think kids are the greatest barometer to someone's selfishness. Like people who are like, there's a whole generation like, yeah, I'm not having kids. Like I'm scared the world, whatever. If you're in that like 25 to 35 range, it's just like, it's like, it's like a wasteland. I think no one's having kids. It's like a desert. And,

And I think it's probably one of the most selfish things you can ever do is to decide not to have a kid. Wow. Because really you're like, I'm afraid, I'm whatever. Because you want to learn how selfish you are, have a kid, and then have another one, and then have five. And then you're like, you know what? It's not about me anymore. I'm here to love them, train them, protect and provide for my wife and my kids, and then have an absolute blast. Because you've got to think about the long game. I think what people don't think about...

One of the sayings my wife and I often talk about is we say, play the movie. People don't play the movie. They're not thinking like, what's the end of their proverbial movie when they're 50, 60, 70, and they don't have anyone there to love them, to celebrate with them. Because like I know with my five kids, maybe I'll have 20 or 30 grandkids. Maybe, maybe I have 15, but like,

Play that movie out. That's going to be amazing. Wow. Where I'm surrounded with all of these people who like came because I decided to say, I love this woman. I'm going to stay with my wife. We're going to have kids. We're trying to raise them as best we possibly can. Love them.

and then hopefully they get to do the same thing. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. I'm just picturing you guys on a ranch somewhere with 20, 30 kids running around. That's it, dude. I mean, that is actually it. One of the things my wife and I say, we just wrote our second book, and one of the things we talk about, the first one was about marriage, the second one's about family, obviously, because we have these five kids. And one of the things that we try to do is like, you know, I'm a futurist, I'm a strategic, I love thinking down the line. Yeah.

One of the things I try to do is in the moment, like we may be in the backyard and, you know, maybe we're got a bonfire going or we're bouncing a volleyball around or someone's jumping on a trampoline, like nothing crazy, nothing where someone's like, oh man, the coolest. But like, I'll look at my wife and I'll just say like, this is it. Like,

Like, there's no, like, one day when we make all this money or one day when we get to this thing over here. Everyone's chasing all these things that they think are going to make them happy. But, like, I'm looking at the moment in my life and going, like, hopefully up to this point, I'm not going to look back at the regret and go, oh, man, I wasn't there for my son. I wasn't there for my daughter. So it was like in the backyard, those moments that you can steal that everyone maybe sees as mundane, right?

are the most beautiful. And that's it right there. That's the life. Because when you're 50, you're going to look back and go, man, I wish I would have. And I'm not going to do that. My wife and I aren't going to do that because we look at it right now in that moment and say,

This is it right here. Dude, I love that. So many people are like, once I achieve this, I'll be happy. Well, yeah. I mean, one of the things happened for me a couple years ago, and I don't know if this has happened for you or not. And I know I'm 43 years old. So when you're in your mid-20s and you're 30 or whatever, you want to prove to whoever. And something happened to me where I was like, okay, whatever.

The drive shifted and changed. I'm still driven. I love starting businesses. I love building, building, building. But when I decided that I have nothing left to prove to anyone, proverbially in my mind or parents or whoever, because what happens is my wife loves me.

My kids love me and I can make money. I have nothing left to prove to whoever. And sometimes it's ourself. We don't even know it. There's a thing in the driver's seat of most men's life and they don't realize that they're literally being pushed around and driven and making decisions that

By trying to prove to whoever and the day that you can finally not have to prove to anyone, you can have peace. Then you can step through, I think, in true leadership and boldness in your life. And that's what happened for me. Wow. That's so relatable, though, because in high school, it was like trying to fit in. And then for sure, it's just you want to prove people wrong. Yeah. Entrepreneurship. Yeah. Start to prove people wrong. Yeah.

So that's beyond relatable, man. Yeah, well, I just think it's so many, especially men, I mean, that's what I can speak to, is just like they're out there trying to prove something to someone and they don't even realize why. Maybe they're watching social media like, oh, I got to. And you're just like, dude, you are chasing after the win. Like it is not, you're never going to catch that thing. So like sit in this moment and look at how far you've come and just celebrate that today. Right.

And when you don't have to prove anymore, like you actually become more powerful and you actually become a stronger leader and a stronger human and there's peace in your life. And now even more people want to be around you and the opportunities come because you're not chasing, you're not trying to position and posture and,

All the different things. That's powerful. I used to care so much about what other people thought of me, dude. For sure. It took me years to get out of that. So when was the thing? When was the moment for you? Honestly, podcasting. Really? Yeah. Because I knew I had to shut that off because I get so much feedback. Okay. Oh, yeah. If I were to let it eat at me, I couldn't do it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, my gosh. I'm sure you do. And I was so scared to even post my own content for years on social media because I was feared of being judged. Got it. Yeah. So this definitely helped me in a way. Well, good job.

You too, man. I mean, that's not an easy space to get to for most people. Yeah, I think it's just, I mean, I grew up with, you know, my parents are great. They divorced when I was five, but small town Indiana, no money, didn't know an entrepreneur, really was just didn't fit in that little town. You're just like,

what is wrong with me and and you know and you just have to go like okay i was built to adventure and try new things and do things that the normal person just is afraid to do you know courage you know one of the things that had a buddy recently and it was it was a cool moment for me is he was just like hey chris like you do things that other people won't do and he's like where do you get the courage to do this and i think it's just that place of like you try things enough

and you do that you fail but you get back up and you keep going you get a dub here and there and you just keep going and I and I had a buddy he was like dude like you lend people courage like with because you have courage and you do these things and someone maybe is afraid to do something I try to lend as much courage as I can to say you know you can do this right nothing's stopping you or holding you back you just have to try and I think when

when someone can capture just a little bit of courage, just like you did when it came to posting and doing the podcast, it can change everything. You know, just a, just a small, a micro amount of courage can literally change someone's life forever. Right. Got to take that first step. For sure. You have to. Yeah. So I know you're big on investing now and that's sort of what you do full time. Yeah. So for the, from the,

From the pastoring world, I started an e-commerce brand. So back in 2015, it was Amazon, private label. I was like, okay, I'm a pastor. I got to do something different. I got to make more money. Because the money's not that good. No, it's not that good. I mean, it shouldn't be that good. If you're a pastor and you're making a lot of money just off the church, that's not a good thing. And so...

even when you read the Bible, you look at the apostles and the disciples. Those guys worked. They went and did work, and people gave them money, but they also worked with their hands. So anyway...

I started this e-commerce brand and it exploded. And I was like, oh my God, like on the side, literally every night my wife would go to bed, my kids would go to bed, and I was like chatting with China, trying to create products and do all that stuff. And then it took off. And it was my first time of like, look, if you don't quit, you don't give up. You know, it's like everyone says you just need that one thing to pop. And it was the first time it was like, okay, this was successful. And so it gave me the courage to say, okay, I can step out of this and start to try a bunch of different things. And ultimately I ended up on a path where,

where I started, I discovered the world of equity crowdfunding. Basically, not Kickstarter, not Indiegogo, but basically you can own a piece of startups and not be a, you don't have to be an accredited investor. And so I discovered this world because laws changed in 2016 and that's where I dove in and

deep and decided, hey, I want to be all in on this. Got it. So you're able to raise capital just from your connections, basically. Yeah. So basically what it is, is the laws opened up and made it possible. See, before 2016, non-accredited investors, meaning someone with not a million dollars net worth, not including their house or...

you know, $200,000 a year in salary and 300 as a couple, they were not allowed to ever invest in startups. You hear these stories about Uber and Dropbox and Airbnb and all these big, huge returns. The everyday investor were not allowed to get into those deals

since the Great Depression. They put it in as a law to say, like, we want to protect the little guy. And the little guy was never able to get in on these deals that brought massive returns. And so 2016, the laws changed. They made it possible for startups to say, hey, you know what? I have an audience. Like,

You have an audience. If you decided to go raise equity for a business, a startup, even for your own... They wanted to own shares of this. You could go out tomorrow and raise up to $5 million a year. Wow. Yeah, $5 million a year. That's a lot. Yeah, it is. Now, that's with audited financials. If you just did reviewed financials, you could do 1.2. So anyway, it's been pretty amazing to see...

you know, Silicon Valley and venture capitalists, they look down on this like, oh, the people like the people and they're like that you don't want it. And they try and talk startup founders out of it. But startup founders are now like sick of being pushed around by VCs and private equity and Silicon Valley. So they're going, screw you. I'm going to I have an audience or I have access to an audience and I'm going to go raise over here on my terms. And I don't have to be pushed around by you and give away a ton of my company. So so

So for me, I'd like to say I'm a pretty big advocate for the investors. So I've invested in over 25 companies. They're growing in value, and they're sitting right around a billion dollars in value right now. Yeah, and of the 27 officially as of today, record this, 25 are still in existence. That's amazing. That's a good ratio. Yeah, so that's my whole thing is I'm banking on like I want to smoke venture capitals.

I want my track record to be well beyond what they do. And so, yeah, I put content out there. I'm teaching people about this. A lot of people don't even know this even exists. The thing that's crazy about it, you got to think about it. This is newer than crypto. Crypto is older, which is pretty...

pretty new than the opportunity. That's crazy, actually. It's eight years. Eight years that people have been able to do this. And so it's starting to gain traction. And so, yeah, there's some pretty cool companies I've had the opportunity to invest in. And my members have had the opportunity to invest right alongside me. It's been pretty neat. Yeah, you've also invested in companies with Cuban and Kevin O'Leary. Which companies were those? Yeah, so the Cuban one was called Beatbox Beverage. I've heard of that one. Yeah, so they were on Shark Tank. Yeah. And they came in.

And they're an Austin-based alcohol beverage company. And Cuban gave them a million dollars. And, I mean, they just... Beverage companies are so hard to start. Especially alcohol beverage companies. And so when I met them, they were doing around $7 million in sales. This was probably three or four years after Cuban invested. And they were like, okay, we're going to go raise...

from the crowd. Like we want to go raise from the everyday investor. And I was like, okay, great. So I found them, did diligence on them. I do a lot of diligence on these companies. I have analysts that I pay a lot of money to do them. I meet them. I'm not just like, oh, you're cool. So they came in at a $60 million valuation, which was at the time back in 2020, this is a pretty rich deal for some of the deals I was jumping into. I was like, all right, I think these guys could do it. So three founders. And

Last year they did $100 million in revenue. Holy crap. In revenue. That's the speaker thing, right? Yeah. Well, they have the speaker kind of beatbox, but they're more like a Tetra Pak now. They kind of moved away from the speaker thing. So they have these little kind of Tetra Paks, kind of the size of the can right there. But they are crushing it. $100 million. This year they're going to do $283 million. Yeah. Yeah.

They are on track for as like Celsius. They're basically following what Celsius did. So by about 2028, my guess is, and obviously, you know, I'm not in the company or on the board. I'm just an investor. There'll be a billion dollar company. Jeez. So you think about it. Everyday investors got in a $60 million valuation and they were doing like $7 million. Yeah. Alcohol brands usually sell at 10x value.

top line revenue. So let's just say it's 7X. Someone could acquire them for $7 to $8 billion, and everyday investors got in at a $60 million valuation. Dude, that's insane. What is that, a 20X? It's going to be even beyond that. It'll crush what happens. So

So that could be one of the biggest deals. Now, there's dilution that happens along the way because they've taken a couple rounds, but they're not doing any more. But someone's going to come in and buy them for really because it's that once you do that, that's how these big brands work. They go, OK, cool. You go show us that it works. Now we don't want to do R&D. We'll just come acquire you. Right. And so if they get acquired, it's going to be probably the biggest deal. I could see that. Alcohol brands are like a monopoly, right?

Oh, for sure. There's only like five big players. Absolutely. And they have such deep pockets that they'll come in. But that's one of the ones. I'm excited about that one. You know, the O'Leary one is interesting because I invested in them before they went on Shark Tank. Oh, wow. We were the first ever to invest in a company before they went on Shark Tank. And then O'Leary invested in them. And, you know, they're unfortunately one of the two that didn't make it. Oh, it didn't make it? Yeah. Which one was it? It was called MC Squares. MC Squares. So it was an office products deal. Oh, God.

What happened? The founder's amazing. It's just he, that is a capital intensive business and inventory wise. And he brought all of his inventory and manufacturing to the States in house. And so it just eventually caught up with them and he,

had some big POs and was trying to fulfill. Anyway, he's actually doing a restructure. What's cool is he's filed bankruptcy, but he's going to restructure and make it to where he could rise back from the ashes again. It's just startup life, man. I try to tell people all the time, startup investing is risky. Nothing is guaranteed, but that's why we work so hard to do the diligence that we do because

I just, I don't know, because I'm investing my own money. I want to return. Well, 25 out of 27 in six years is pretty good. Well, I'm trying. I'm trying. And every time, I usually will invest in one a quarter. There's a couple that I just recently invested and brought to my members that I'm pretty excited about. One is, they're called ciphertax. They're basically going to disrupt...

corporate finance tax as we know it. So like they have, they can come in, they've, they've come in behind multi-team audits who've been there for three months in a corporation and found millions of dollars after those guys were done. Whoa. So literally they're going to probably end up partnering with states where like basically you'll come, the state will go, Hey, here's how much you owe.

Or you'll go, yeah, we all know how much we owe here. There's no like because of AI and what they've been doing. I love that. So like they are – their whole round was from the crowd and they'll never raise capital again. And I think – I mean I'm hopeful they sell for billions. TurboTax will want that, I bet. Yeah. I think Microsoft will want that. Yeah, Microsoft. Why? I think – well, I just think if you are that powerful and you have that much data, like if you're tapping into –

some of the big four accounting firms who have thousands of companies and they're licensing this product. I think either one of them is going to try and buy it because they don't want their competitors to have it. You will have the ultimate advantage. But it also comes down to data. If you have the data of every major, huge player in the world,

Like in court America, you can see all the data. Like you're going to want to own that. So I can see someone like a Microsoft trying to own them too or one of the big accounting firms. You got to have patience in this game though. That is it, brother. And that's one of the things I try and tell people. I'm like, this is not day trading –

this is not coins. This is not like flipping day to day. This is like, and some people are wired this way. Like, you know what I found is entrepreneurs are the ones that typically like this because they're, they understand risk and they understand they've seen the power of what can happen building their own business. But they're like,

I can't build six more businesses. I can't build 10 more businesses, but I can invest in this person over here that's building this business. And I'm going to let, I'm going to take the odds and bet that like, they'll take my 10 or 20 or $50,000 and they'll turn it into a hundred, 200, 300 grand or whatever it is, you know? But that is one thing I want to say that people don't maybe not realize this. The cool thing about this law is a lot of times someone can invest for as little as a hundred dollars.

into these companies and get a piece of equity. Now, I don't recommend that as a strategy because you're never going to get actual returns, but it's a way to kind of dip your toe in the water. Someone's like, hey, I want to go find startups. Now, the other side of this whole thing is there's a lot of crappy companies out there as well. They're like, hey, you know, I'm doing a cat litter or something, you know, and they're just...

they go out and they try to raise money and you know, they're inevitably going to shut down. So it's like throwing your money away. So it's, you got to have a due diligence process. You have to understand what a good company looks like. And so that's the craft that I've been honing for last however many years. You probably get pitched a hundred deals a day. I get a lot of people coming to me, a lot of people coming at me with a bunch of deals because they're like, Hey, because here's, here's what happens is, you know, I invest, I

I deliver all the due diligence. I actually fly to the company that I'm going to invest in. Wow, you fly there? Yep. I shoot a ton of content. I shoot videos. I meet with the team. If they're a facility, I check out the facility. If they're a technology, I look at their technology. And then I put it all together along with the reports, and then I deliver it to my members and say, hey, this is why I'm investing. Now you get to decide if you're investing. And we've seen it where millions of dollars have come in from everyday investors in every

Hours. Just from your network? Hours, just from our network. Holy crap. Yeah. And so there's power in the people and people don't really understand what's happening. So for me, I'm on a mission to go, I want to get as many people as possible to understand about this because here's the thing. I don't take any money from founders. I don't take a dime from any founders. Legally, I can't.

So these founders love me. They're like, dude, you're my best friend. Because I want them to win because one, now I'm an investor. I'm going to share this story. I'm going to try and... Blow it up. Yeah, I'm going to help them understand how it works. But that's the beauty of it. Investors get to decide if they want in or they don't. And the coolest thing about equity crowdfunding is if, say you get in and...

you know, you're there a couple months and they haven't closed their raise yet and you go, you know what, I've decided I don't want to, you can pull your money. Oh, nice. It's liquid. Yeah, it's liquid until they close their round. But it's a great way for people to understand and get into this world that's still only eight years old in the making. Yeah, some of the biggest come ups have been from equity investments. Yo, dude, so many people, I think people don't understand that like,

you know, I mean, you gotta think about it. Like you now look at, I mean, obviously Bezos built Amazon and, you know, Elon did what he did with PayPal or whatever, but he took that money and kept investing. And a lot of, a lot of these guys are hardcore angel startup investors and people make a lot of money, big returns in startup investing. Now we're in a little bit of like what I would call like,

equity corporations, everyone's holding their cash. There's so much cash sitting on the sidelines right now. But my guess is it's kind of like I'm saying like survive through 25. Like if you can get to the other side of 25, there'll be a lot of people that die off between there. But then I think the vaults will open back up. People have all this cash. They'll want to grow, you know, especially there's not a lot of people going public right now. So I think there'll be a lot more public. A lot of these companies get ready to go public. Like, you know, talk about Bebop Beesbuck Beverage, maybe like by 27, someone's like, okay, I

I don't even want you to get to a billion. I'm going to write you a check so big that there's no way you can say no to it. So anyway. What do you think people are waiting on? Because I see these news headlines about tech companies, their valuations going down. Do you think it's related to that? Oh, for sure. Well, right now, I think the appetite for going public is really, really light. Everyone's a little... Unless you're like...

AI or like a rocket ship or something. The retail investor is so focused on just NVIDIA right now and everyone's just trying to see what's going to happen with the election. I think the election's got everybody on pause. The election's there. And then I think there's not a lot of companies that are coming out with NVIDIA-type numbers that are crushing it. And so unless you're just like...

hand over fist coming and making so much money where the market goes, we have to invest in them. Then I think people are just waiting, but there will be, because what's interesting is doing some of the research in the space that I'm in, like the last big IPO boom was right before the.com bust. Hmm.

And then the next big IPO boom was two years ago. - Interesting. - And like where two to two and a half years ago, so many IPOs, like more than we'd ever seen before. And it was like big money new, like we gotta go and get our cash now. The retail investor is feeling really great about themselves.

Everyone gets it. Now, the big money gets it. The corporation gets it. But the retail investor is the one left going, oh, great. Now, the stock price has dropped half. And so I think it's the retail investor not being informed, nobody really helping them. Corporations are going to make what they're going to make. They're going to get theirs. But I think we're in this big lull now. And I think...

After 25, probably 26, we'll start to see IPOs pop again. And then I think returns will come for especially those who dove into equity crowdfunding. Yeah, those SPACs two years ago. Oh, my gosh. Every day. Chamath ran those up. Oh, man. Those were so ugly. Those all dipped, though. Yeah, so bad. 90%. Like crypto. Yeah. Well, they started putting regulations on them. Yeah. And everybody was like, oh.

Never mind. I'm good. I don't want eyeballs in here. So yeah, I mean, I think it's a great opportunity. I think people should definitely check out the world of equity crowdfunding. And I think they should, you know, I'm not saying anybody should make it their number one

100% of their portfolio, but I think it's cool to get people to start dipping their toes in the water, just like people have done with crypto. Yeah, I'm definitely going to diversify into it because I watched this show called My First Million. Oh, cool. And I see them talk about their investments and some of them blow up. That's a lot of how they do it. I mean, obviously, they built and sold their newsletters, but yeah,

But yeah, I mean, getting in... And they're like in... There's Silicon Valley. They're connected in those circles. They're making more off their equity investments than their companies. For sure they are. And that's the part. You got to think about it. Like, okay, you're doing that. Maybe you put in... For those guys, maybe Sam put in 100 grand here or 10 grand here or 200 grand there. They have those pockets. But the same...

thing can scale down to equity crowdfunding if someone wants to put in a thousand ten thousand five thousand yeah and that's the part that gets me excited yeah that's cool because average person could invest a couple thousand bucks yeah for sure 10 exit possibly in years yeah that's that's that's the hope and that's the thing is like you know like you can get a this one's a five or six x okay great it's a single base hit like that's that is not that is not bad yeah but then you you go okay but this one over here has a potential to 10 15 20 100 x and it's like

like, great, well, let's see how this thing plays out. So I'm playing the long game right now. I love it. Any exits yet? No.

there's only one that went uh went public on the nasdaq but it went public basically right at the end of the ipo boom and so it was just like it had and there was a lock up period so you're just like you're like of course and so so it was like everyone's like yeah we were all watching let's go and then you know and then it hit it was 20 i think it was 21 the end of 21 and it was maybe 22 and so yeah

It's still, yeah, it's all timing, you know, but that's, that's the name of the game. But you know, that's the cool part is the stock still there. You can still hold the stock, wait it out if you want. And, you know, you know, either get your money back or see a return down the line. That's what you gotta, you gotta understand about this space. Yeah. Yeah. Those lockups crypto does the same thing when they do ICOs. Oh dude. Brutal. Oh, so on paper it looks amazing. You're like, I mean, you got four years to wait. No, you're not. Yeah. Uh,

What EBITDA multiples are you seeing? Is it based off the industry? Yeah, I think it all depends on the sector. I think every sector is so different, and it also depends on what's happening in that industry. Is it going down? Is the excitement for it going down? Is it going up? If you're AI and you're legit AI, you've got a lot of attention, and you could probably garner a pretty high multiple on your EBITDA. But there's an interesting deal that I just –

I just invested in. It's, it's a first time ever that private equity has partnered with retail investors. Oh, wow. And yeah, it's, they're basically buying a legacy brand that's doing $25 million a year. There's $6 million EBITDA and the owners, and this is what, this is the interesting part. The owners are like 70 and they're done. Yeah.

And that's like across America right now. Maybe boomers. Well, yeah. Someone said there's a term called the silver tsunami. Like it's coming. Like where all of these business owners are like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm tired. But they've got a $25 million business. But they're like,

who's going to buy it? So then like a private equity firm could come in and get a steal of a deal on it, come scale it up for two, three, four years and get a five, six X multiple on it. And this company is doing $6 million in EBITDA. Like they're already profitable and it's, but it's hard to try and help the retail investor understand. They're like, is it flying cars? Is it AI? You know? So I'm, I'm constantly trying to go like, guys, like,

understand how this world works and when you see deals like this where private equity who's not dumb bunny like they don't they don't chase dumb things they're very calculated with a lot of analysts due diligence behind them so um so there's just a lot of interesting and creative things that are stepping into this world of equity crowdfunding especially now i don't know if you know um

you know, Beehive, the newsletter. The newsletter, yeah. Yep. So they did a raise. Yeah, the founder's coming on next month. Oh, cool. Yeah, so they did a raise. Raised a million dollars from their audience in like two hours. Wow. Yep. Just threw it out there, raised a million bucks. Yeah.

What valuation was it? Ridiculous. It was pretty high. It was high. But that's equity crowdfunding. Nobody's there going, no, I'm not going to invest in you. They set the terms. Cool, yeah, you set the terms. And so then you're not dictated by VCs or whatever. And so it moved. So I jumped into that one. I was like, all right, I'll

I'll be a part of Beehive. And then Substack went on, and they did. But they did a... So this was the interesting part. Beehive, I think, came from a position of strength, and they wanted to get their people. Now, we'll see if Beehive can hold on to the momentum that they have right now. But they're smart, and they're doing it the right way. But Substack was just kept... These companies kept raising at ridiculous valuations. Well, then it was like...

no one's like we're not giving you more money and their business models like they take 10% from the readers and it's just like or their from their subscribers and it's like that's a lot of money so they went and raised in the crowd and they raised five million dollars but I looked at it and I didn't I didn't think it was a very good deal because it's like okay you're raising a it's like a

I have to go back and check. I feel like it was like a half a billion or something. Holy crap. It was really, really high. And I was like, the retail investor doesn't understand. They're just going, cool, I'm a Substack customer. I'd love to invest in it. That's super high. But they couldn't... They basically ran out of VC money. And it was like, all right. And then it was like the burn was... And that's the cool thing about... You can see how big someone's burn is. And so...

The multiple on that just isn't there for the risk. Yeah, you're going to like, who's buying you? The risk to reward is not there. And if you're already burning cash, how fast does that $5 million go and you're going to have to do it again? And then you're going to raise it. And these guys don't want to do down rounds. They're scared to death of down rounds. I'm not a fan of burn when the profit's not there. No, no. I mean, that's the thing. Like,

Even that AI company, that tax company I was telling you about, those guys are crushing it. And it's literally like their burn is almost nothing. That's amazing. Yes. That's the perfect one. Let's go. Yeah. My goal is to sell this one day. That's cool. Like Rogan did. Oh, that's cool. So I've done some planning. I basically want to get to 2 million EBITDA. Okay. And I think I could get an eight-figure exit if I pull that off. For sure. For sure. Now...

Are you going to continue to stay? Yeah. I'm going to do what Rogan did, basically. Okay. Yeah. So sell to a major network like Spotify or SiriusXM or whatever. Okay. And then they recoup all the money from sponsors, basically. Yeah. So that's my plan. I'm a fourth of the way there in year two. That's awesome, man. So I think I could do it. Well, I mean, the multiple should keep going. Yeah. The first year was about 450 net. Okay. So I think if I can double that this year and then double it the next year, I'll be there. Well, I think...

I think going back to what I was saying is like timing, I think as cash opens back up, you know, like you're, you might hit the right, the right timing where it's, it's time to do that. Yeah. Why don't you, why don't you, uh, you want to ever raise capital? You got me thinking about it now. Let's go bro. No, for real. Seriously. Like I, I, I got you. I'd much rather do this method than VCs. Yeah. I feel like there's less pressure too. Well, I'm still on my own schedule. They just, they, they, they put you on ridiculous timeframes and they, they push you to do things that you're like, I,

it's going to compromise the brand. It's going to compromise the integrity of what I'm trying to do. Because they're all about the numbers. Yeah. Literally, you are a number on a spreadsheet. You are one of 30. And if you die, these two will fund, will get us back all the ones. They aim for 10%, right? Yeah. 1,000%. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So out of 10, they want one or two to like... Yeah. That's so low. It's so low. But they just throw money and know that eventually the... And that's where like...

I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'm going to be very strategic in what I invest in, what I look at, how I roll. Yeah, man. You want to roll? I mean, let's do it. The next phase for me is traveling to other cities and countries to do interviews. That's cool. Yeah, I might need some funding for that. We'll see. Yeah, well, I think the part that I look at for you is like, are you going to be able to –

continue to find the right guess you know and maybe maybe maybe you will maybe won't but I would imagine for you like

What I would think would make you more valuable is if you diversified with personalities. If you were a network and you had – and now you're like – because think about it like this. You have the studio here. Just change the graphic. Easily. Put another person in that seat that you trust that can build into the brand. And if you build a media company, not just your one show, I think that is when your multiple gets ridiculous. And it can even happen faster. Yeah, and Ben Shapiro did that.

And he crushed it. Oh, yeah. They absolutely crushed it. Yeah. A lot of the political guys did that. Patrick Bet-David did it. Yeah. Patrick's crushing it. You know, I mean, that's Dave Ramsey. That's what Dave Ramsey did. You know what I mean? That's a nine-figure company right there. Oh, for sure. I mean, it's like right down the road from my house. Might even be a billion-dollar company. They're up there. From a valuation perspective, I'd say they're probably over a billion. Holy crap. For sure. I mean, they're doing probably more. They're probably doing closer to two or more. What's the primary revenue, you think?

I mean, dude, people are always getting in debt and they're always wanting to buy digital products that was created however long ago. So the info products. Yeah, and their personalities. So the way their personality deal works is they'll go find somebody and basically craft them, mold them, make them, kind of bring them up, but they own all the IP. Right, Dr. John Deloney and he's got a couple other ones. They own it all. Yeah, they own all their IP. And so it's like, okay. So when you sell a book, the author's like,

They may get a small fraction, but Ramsey's the publisher. He's the distributor. He's everything. And some of those books are pretty good cash flow, I've heard. For sure, especially like Total Bunny Makeover. That's his big one. Or Mosey's bringing in serious coin off his. Oh, man. It's crazy what he's doing. But I think that's for you. I think if you did it, man, if you were able to find –

and personality, if you can find someone who's humble enough to come alongside and go like, yeah, I can build a show next to you. Maybe they come in alongside you. I think that's where you get really enticing because you have multiple shows. The female version of me could be pretty cool. Oh, for sure. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. And maybe that's – if you do a raise, maybe that's part of the thing is like we're going to use the capital to bring in the right personality. And there's already someone who has an audience that's just –

They're just not quite... They don't know how to do what you do. And you're like, cool, we have the system. We know what we're doing. So, yeah, man, that could be... Yeah, I'd be very curious to see if I could plug this model in with another person. There's no doubt in my mind you could. I think it could work because I've proven the numbers myself. And I'm not even the most social guy. So I think it could work with someone else. Oh, for sure. I think definitely... I mean...

I bet you, I bet you if you, I mean, you know, you got to be careful, but like, I think you could pop probably, probably a couple and just test it. And especially with the audience and the, the, this, the crossover, I think it could be pretty, especially, but you know, especially if you did like, you know, like one of the guests you just had, like if he was that niche and you're that focused, maybe not as,

broad as this, but it's more of like we're going this route. I think you could, I think you could have multiple personalities. Absolutely. That's great advice. Thanks, Chris. Yeah, of course. Anything else you want to promote or close off on, man? That was fun. No, man. I mean, like, look, I, I have a site that I, every week I'm sharing startups that I've got my eye on. It's called a watch list. So that's at the crowd. No, O C R W D.co.

thecrowd.co and yeah, I'm on social, I'm out there, whatever. And if someone wants to learn about this world of startup investing, I'm here to educate and kind of empower and inform and help them understand how it works. And if they want to come invest alongside me, there's opportunities to do that as well. Perfect. We'll link below. If you're interested, guys, check out the link. Definitely some interesting stuff and potential for some cool returns. So thanks for coming on, man. Absolutely, brother. Yeah. Thanks for watching guys. As always, see you next time.