#716 - Scott Galloway - How Can Men Take Charge Of Their Lives?
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What's happening, people, welcome back to the show. What I guess today is Scott gallery is a clinical professor of marketing, the new york university stern school of business, a public speaker, entrepreneur, an author. Respondants cy and cynicism m are everywhere online, some of the most popular modern trends are those that tell people to not hope for the best and that things can never get Better.

Thankfully, I don't agree. I know that is Scott. Expect to learn why Scott recommends all men watch the movie here.

The problem with the left view on masculinity, what we should be teaching men about how to age Gracefully, why we are experiencing a lack of good role models, the keys to networking with being a wide, whether you should ban your staff from sleeping with each other, the pillars of masculine ity and much more. I very much appreciate scot position. He is a man ardently from the left and ardently promo and ardent pro family. It's an interesting and increasingly rebelled at the moment, and I think he's got an awful lot of interesting stuff to add. But now ladies and gentleman, please welcome Scott galloway.

Scott out away.

don't come in the show, Chris. Here's is the only podcast I will do accept anyone who ask me, anyone, anyone i'm a hard that's be honest.

the slot of the part but .

i'm an expensive for that's my thinking high class hooker.

I think that technically referred to.

We all do things for money we don't want to do. And I guess that i'm a horr. But as I got older and gained some currency, I am an expensive for.

you know, peaky blind is you seen that .

I do that guy. That guy is a open heima clean mercy.

Yeah, yeah. Callie says he's turning to Grace. That is, this prostitute go working in his bar and he says, we're all hours, Grace. We just have different Prices and we sell different parts of ourselves.

All of us do things. I think prostitution should be legalized. I've never want to buy IT is I think sex trafficking should absolutely be illegal and people should be put in prison. And I think that's a perfect example of how when something has made illegal social media possible, solve the impossible about twenty four hours and I think make a lot of things. But I think people should be able to do what they want with their body. And I think if you look at a lot of relationships, it's kind of I don't know a couple the the shades of grade between that and prostitution are are are pretty difficult to to get up. I'm sure this is a hey, crime and we're .

sure well, like you are from the left, I think i'm safe. I've got my left is fully front and center today. I remember I heard you say that you think all Young men should be required to watch the movie and take a class on dating dynamics. why?

Like, I think that the ability to initiate contact with strangers go up to a friend and say, hey, do you want to go to, you know, do you want to go golfing this weekend or do you want to hang out go to football match this weekend? I'm trying to encourage my boys to talk to strangers and I think the most rewarding relationship um in life is uh a romantic and potentially a sexual partnership. The results and kids in a family.

I do think that that I didn't think I was going to be the most rewarding thing in my life in an end of being the most rewarding thing in my life. And the reason why I have such an outstanding partner is because I learned early how to into a rejection and how to initiate even being used the word aggressive with strange people. I would email people I didn't know and ask for a meeting at a venture capital firm.

I would, um when I was a senior high school, I ouldn't get invited to parties and know I would do. I would show up on invited. And IT was embarrassing for about five minutes.

And then I went in and no one was going to pick me out. And I had a great time. I was always aggressive, and I always been aggressive professionally and personally.

And if you want to contribute your way, way class, get used to rejection and initiating conversation. And of course, that is, you pointed out, eliminate, uh, people claim that somehow this is a bad thing. And then every survey shows that women want men, in most cases, to initiate the contact and express the interest. So I think to teach a Young man to go up to force himself. When I used to walk into a bar, a, when I was a Young man, I said within fifteen seconds, and my dad taught me, you need to start talking to a strange woman within fifteen seconds of walking into a bar of you.

their friends, a woman that a stranger, or specifically find a strange woman, an unusual woman.

who just seems very, very strange. And we are, no, when you walk into a bar, if you're a strange setting, social setting, to walk into a party, any room go up immediately to a stranger doesn't not up to be a strange woman and start talking to them. And I think those skills in that confidence and quite wring, is that ability reject or do rejection are a key component of professional success.

The difference between people who make good money at work and people who make outrageous money, only one thing, they're willingness to endure rejection, because that is a key component of selling. And selling is the difference between being the CFO, the co in the CEO. And you might say i'm just not up for that, but the reason why the most overcompensated people in every organization relative to their talent or all one person, one title and that sales person is they are willing to endure rejection. And if you want to be overcompensated or you want to romantically punch above your way class, and then get used to rejection. And if i'm trying to get my boys anything, it's the ability to endure rejection.

It's the same for friends. So many of the people that i've connected with as friends have come about for me not caring about sending A D M. This is why he is my hot take of the week. Everybody should become a club promoter for at least two months at some point in their life.

Because if you've given out risk bands on the street for some dead ask of to try get people, and hey, guys, where are you going tonight? right? I know that you're going to, the club is really busy and you know the name of and is highly reliable for a good night, but how about you come to this one that you ve never heard of before down a dark ali, like the um online lack of rejection or lack of fear of rejection that you go through from just sending dms at so many of the good things that have happened in my life have come about due to random D.

M. And the same goes from friends too. So many of my best friends we met by the internet and they said, did I love this thing that you do what we met at this place and then you have a bit of residents online. You turn into real world friends, and these are now some of my best friends. So it's business, its relationships, it's friendships, it's money, it's adventures and opportunities.

Yeah, hundred percent. And and unfortunately, you start to lose that as you get older because your ego gross. When I was Young and I was hungry for money, I used to just constantly paying strangers, send out emails, send out proposals.

This is how I can help your firm, or my friend knows you. Could we grab coffee? I was really aggressive. And now that i've gotten older, had some success, i've lost some of my my egos grown and i'm like i'm gonna reach out to them.

But what you said about friends um with some people who are caught quoting, I reached out to the wrong with this. I reach I somehow got introduced, the owner of Chelsea and um that was a big my my son as a huge Chelsea fan and it's been such a difficult season for him. I mean, it's shebeen so hard on. And last night the whole household was on egg shells because, you know, they went up two, one.

And you like we're going to blow IT again and you see the thirteen year old pacing back and forth in front of the TV and we're just freaked out that that they're going to the you know taught them, which is the Better club this year and they won and he jumped up and down and he was so like, literally drop to his knees most happy. And I put in on video, and I text message to this guy where I introduced, I don't know that well, they on her, Chelsea. And he texted me back right away in a second.

We should get together. And it's like I I am not sure my whole life would I had that confidence. And what you realized is that people of any stature standing IT might mean more to people.

And you should probably make an effort to be more generous to people who don't have that sort of status or power. But what you realize is everybody wants friendship. Everyone wants to be congratulating later.

I mean, I got to think I was thinking about top later. For a billionaire. He is taken so much shit this year, I don't think he can go to Chelsea games because he gets such gree. If I mean crime a river, but IT is never, IT is never, I don't think you can be too kind of, I don't know, want to a reckless with compliments are reaching out to people now, what what you went, what you talk about teaching mating dynamics.

I think a huge gift for Young man that they need is how to express interest in friendship, interest in potential romantic, interest with, while making that person feel safe and and with a lot Young man i've been taught, you have talked a lot about this. Is that expressing that sort of interest automatically deems you a predator? Or that is something wrong? And this is not true.

And even in in work situations, you have to be more thoughts about IT. You have to tread more lightly. But one of three relationships begin at work.

Men have been taught, told any expression of romantic interest sm work could get to a trip to hr, potentially out of the company, that any man potentially who expressed the sexy interest or romantic interest to a stranger is a creep. And none of those are true. None of those are true.

And if you talk to most couples, what you find who have been together twenty and thirty years is that at the beginning in the relationship, one of them, usually the man, was more interested than the other. And IT took a certain amount of elegant persistence to convince that person and that they should go out with them and then demonstrate excEllence, demonstrate kindness, generate, demonstrate eros ity. And I worry that Young men aren't getting an opportunity to participate. And what is the most rewarding thing in life, in my view, that to develop a family and kids because they're not being taught how to enter a rejection or how to approach people in a random environment um um while making the other .

person feel safe yeah I think women also could do with being taught that the old world, they may be taught to learn from their mothers and older sisters from the nineties and the nineties, about you treat him like you don't like him and like you're not interested and why men love bitches.

You know, there was this entire genre of books that about that was create additional mate value in yourself by extending the chase and making him work a little bit harder. But in opposed me to world anything close to a know by most men, apart from the predatory ones, which is not going to stop. In any case, anything that virtues on a no is a fuck no, get away from me. Anything shy of an absolute yes and complete openness and receptivity to a guy is that and I I do wonder whether I don't know there's like a reticence that both guys and girls have got now of reaching out to people.

And it's so a per it's .

so of us to the way that, again, I was a club mote. The only way that we filled the events for fifteen years was by being the person that would continue to send annoying dms over over again until someone actually decided to come out. So my thresh hold for messaging someone is so much lower than IT is for pretty much anyone else. And you hit and and on the head with that thing with the Chelsea ona, no one on the planet is upset and not gonna reply to a cool, cute video of a thirteen year old boy celebrating that his favorite sports team, just one like that, like that a univerSally unobjectionable content to send to someone yeah .

and even at this age, i'm worried that, like, I don't want to be perceived as harassing someone is more important than me but it's some I do get in my past officers, I have had an increasing number of women daland.

And after dating advice and the dating advice I give them as luck, you should not lower your standards but but try a second coffee to see if, in fact, this person does start to slowly meet your standards, because women actually have a much finer filter. And unless you know a, there is data, a lot of times people weren't interested in the other personal first. And then they got to know them.

They found out they were kind. They found out they're funny. They found out there's something about their smell that they liked. They got, you know, they became attached to them. They're love spending time with them.

And the problem in an online dating format is that sort of like, you know, I make a snap decision and it's over and that's IT, they're off. No, that's IT. It's over. So what I tell men is create more initial opportunities.

And for women, mind vice is like if there's nothing there and you really just know you're not into this person, fine, but if you walk in and say it's got to be someone at least six feet who makes at least six figures, just recognize that point six percent of the population and that you may you may not find the same volume potential mates. You maybe fishing in a pool, it's not a pull, its its a tiny puddle and see see if there's other ways you have other things develop. Give a second coffee a chance.

Um but it's IT. I think it's really disappoint ting, because I think not only are men struggling and without women are lonely, but they do a much Better job of maintaining relationships without a romantic relationships. They're just Better at maintaining life and love and professional success.

When a Young man doesn't have the prospect of a romantic and sexy relationship, he doesn't he doesn't shower. He doesn't work as hard as he should. He doesn't save money for our house.

He drinks too much. He gets high too much. Not making huge generalizations here, but the data bears this out. This stuff is so important. And so we need more third basis parks, recreational links, um more educational opportunities.

Church idea, say, more religious institutions, more parks, you know, the barber s shop, more branded m opportunities, more nonprofits. I'd like to see national service, compulsory national service for everyone that gives people a chance to follow love. I'm an investor in a bunch of israeli companies. I can't get over how many confounders and husband's and wives met in the military because they had an PPT unity demonstrated excEllence uh uh to each other in in in the pursuit of something bigger than each of them.

Yeah code the code spaces where people can be competent and they can show that they have a degree of excEllence and ambition like competence is sexy, right? Doesn't matter whether a guy or ago and what you're looking for, someone that is competent to doing a thing. Wow, that's cool. That's hot.

Well, this is, this is the this is what we don't talk about or doesn't get a lot of press academic institutions. There is a proponent of people on the facility who are married one another. And typically, typically, often times IT was a professor and hazard her P H.

Student, uh student, or they they knew each other and they were the family together. There's a lot of interoffice romance. why? Because if you're the premiere thought leader and gap to accounting, you may not be great in a bar setting, but your opportunity to demonstrate excEllence to people who find this stuff interesting makes you attractive.

You're a chat to someone who lives on excel there.

Go here .

and an exam.

And ninety nine percent of these relationships were consensual and really positive things, even when they didn't work out. So I I am all about, and you know, this is probably setting myself up for disaster. And my companies, I have always allocated a lot of money for uh, social stuff.

I want them to meet each other, I want them to be friends. And something I celebrate is when they get married. I've had i've been to six wettings of people i've met at my companies.

And what I tell the senior level men and the senior level women is if you're above a certain seniority in the company, year flies up a lot. The power symmetry here is, is too great. The the opportunity for abuse is is too great.

It's awesome to be a senior left exit. Give me a company means money, that means status. You have other opportunities off campus.

So if something happens here, you're just at falt, let's us say that right here. But other than that, the the company policy is the following. Use your common sense.

So when I was running my nightlife business, one of the the way that I was structured was a couple of owners at the top couple of senior managers above us, block of maybe about ten to fifteen junior managers, and then a tone of guest listers below them. So each manager had a team of around about thirty people, something like that in each of these people.

IT was their jo B2Bring peo ple to the nig htly b g ot a e ve nt goi ng on, on thursday or friday or whatever. And they made a commission. And then the managers made a commission on the commission and so on and so forth. You kind of like a sales, like typical sales set, bright.

But as you are talking about that power accessory, then we are talking about eighteen, usually eighteen to twenty oadp, sometimes like eighteen to twenty two year olds and its Young guys who are living away from home for the first time ever. They are the ones that choose who gets to dance and hostess at the nightly b. They are the ones that choose who gets the preference on shifts.

They are the ones who gets to choose who goes into VIP in all the rest of IT. So this power that even though everyone was eighteen, one thousand, twenty, there was a power differential. And mean, my business partner find the boys if we found out that they'd had sex with one of our staff.

And IT was ten pounds for the first time that happened, twenty pounds for the second time that happened. Forty pounds, eighty pounds. And then one hundred and one hundred, hundred, hundred.

We find them, and we told them we will. Like, look, if you do this, you are putting both your own money and the company risk. There is a risk that associated with this. There are five other events companies with just as many hot girls who love party, and just as much as you guys to go and decimate them from the inside, going cause all manner of strive.

Because without a doubt, there was a fifty percent chance if the manager, one of the managers had sex with one of the staff that work for us within a couple of months, they'd leave. One like that was an amazing member of staff, like that was a really great guest list or that was a really great hostess. So he worked really well on the tiller.

Did what? And she's gone now because you broke her heart. Or then the manager, he loses his head because she's now talking to one of the other managers.

And then he causes internal strife between the guys. So we we disincentivize IT financially and the boys just accepted IT as par for the course. Um so yeah, I think i'm .

just shocked that twenty pounds would be would actually make someone think twice about having sex.

So you'd be surprised when you're in the northeast of the U. K. Twenty pounds goes .

an awful that what i've tell, what what i've ever said. And I I mean, that sounds like basic training, but I think the first thing you tell, especially a man in a corporate setting, especially Young man, is that instinctively mental mistake kindness, ss for sexual interest. And women more mistake sexual interest for kindness, and just be cognitive.

The fact that because a woman is nice to, does not mean SHE has any romantic or sexual interest in you. And in a corporate setting, you need to be very careful because correctly, incorrectly, if there's a problem, the most likely H. R.

And the paris of beer and society and twitter are going to find the man coupable. And and that's probably right, because the man is usually the person who initiates. And men get IT wrong more often than women, they just get IT wrong. So i'm but once you're cognition of this power dynamic, once you are, if you tread lightly and you ask someone out to coffee, which is that, yeah, okay, use your judgment. You're all grown ups.

You're all grown ups. There was I go to a gym in Austin that is super cal and all of the guys and girls that go there and like crazy shape and the machines are fantastic and the culture and the atmosphere is amazing. And they put a real out a few months ago and IT was um advice for a guy. Um the sort of guy approaches the Cameron is like, i'm going to show you how you should approach girls in the gym and then IT turns around, the camera turns around and there's a group of six girls all stood in line looking very hot and they go, just don't flick the hair and walk off and I was like, am I fucking high here? Like, what is this is the exact opposite of what we need like, just don't like, just don't approach like girls in the gym. And in a second, if you go to the gym, especially a gym like that one which is very specialized and you is selected for a very like specific type of person, how many other places are there where you're going to find someone who has that particular niche obsession with fitness? And the gym, to me, seems like the perfect place to approach people.

Yeah, it's so I have two minds about this. I think that I think some women get approach so much and just want to go to a gera, they just want to work that I think they can send signals by just putting on head terms right um what I would tell my boys is if you're on to trade me next to somebody and you want to trying to strike up a conversation. Do IT and you might find you might sense right away that they're just not interested.

They're to work out. They are not looking to meet anybody. And guess what? You're both going to be fine. And what you don't want to do is that around and stay at somebody and make them uncomfortable. I think that even than worse. So pick up on visual cues and if you on the way out, you know, run into them and start a conversation with them, great. And you'll hopefully be able to figure out pretty quickly if there if they return your interest.

Um but don't you know I like this is this is what IT means to be an adult and hopefully you have good role models and they're some trial and air here and that is you you've said that the difference between a creep, a story, a story that's a romantic comedy that's told forty hours years later, is in this great soft lighting and someone is a creep, is the perceived attractiveness of the person who initiate the contact. And the problem is the person, and you've said this, who initiates the contact IT doesn't know how you're going to attractive if you're going to perceive them. And what I what I do respect, and i've seen this with the women when I melt with my Young friends, and they approach someone and she's clearly not interested.

Most women are kind. Most women will be thoughts and polite in and they have to develop their own skills around how to wave off um um interest that they're not interested in in a polite and dignified wake. As most women I find our kind and also when I mean I was guys and a woman, uh, I have seen more of this recently.

Women now approach manibus ars. I never that never happened to me when I was under, or maybe this is me, but i've been without a couple of my Young ger buddies at work and women actually to come up and start talking. I've never seen that before.

I think it's wonderful. And I just think as a guy, just in terms of karma, you are always down to hang out being ice by drinks to any woman who comes up to you. Because my brother, for the universe, you want to encourage that type of behavior, you want to encourage IT.

This is not enough, hundred percent, hundred percent. But the skills show me a guy who's good in a random situation at a party, or is good meeting strangers, either strange manis sexually and or strange women. Section and montagues can probably make more money than he deserves because that ability to open, that ability to initiate a relationship is kinder. That half the battle in a corporate setting.

What else would be on your cylon bus for teaching Young men what they should focus on in life and prioritize?

Well, you did this early, but I think fitness, just for mental health um getting used to working out early. My dad was in the role navy and he started me working out when I was like, thirteen. And this is sort of stuck with me. I get to do IT a lot. I was seven hundred and eighteen, but I just sort of wasn't grained in me.

I think having a plan, even if that plan changes, always just start having a plan, I will be able to say if someone ask you what what are you thinking you're going to do the next five or ten years you have stick to a but i'm planning to go to college and then i'm going to get a degree you know when I was seventeen I thought I was going to a pediatrician an and chemistry disappears me of that notion um but I would have sort of a plan you can articulate to somebody um I would say a trying um and this is something I didn't want to do to be more in touch with your emotions and that has been more honest with people tell them when you're upset, reach out to people, ask for help when a woman upsets you, a or a friend upsets you, you know you will bum me out, you can call me back or you were not nice to me in front of the other guys. And I understand why. I mean, there's a certain amount of that packing order and socialization you need to endure growing up.

But I was an in touch with my motions. I didn't tell my mom I loved her until I was much older. And I wish I said that more often.

I wish that I had told women and romantic partners when my feelings were heard, or how I truly felt about them. I was one of those guys that was was never wanted to pear, weak or vulnerable. So I would never share my emotions, and I think that screw up a lot of a relationships or diminish lum. So be much more touch with their emotions, be much more willing to express your emotions.

why? Well, on what's on the other side? What's the positive on the other .

side of doing that? Well, there's opportunities to have friendships and relationships. Sometimes, sometimes people are waiting for you to say, i'm really bombed out that maybe don't want to be my friend.

You don't like me as much as I like you, and I like that. There are so few people who are willing to say that the Young age IT demonstrates confidence. And I think people find out really attractive.

I mean, and if they don't, that's the wrong kind of person. Also, you go into this this kind of fun house of your emotions in the reality where you don't know what's important to you. You start convincing yourself you don't care, you don't mind and you never really get informed.

My attitude is when a movie really moves you. Um as you said, why am I inspired by? And then because that will help inform what interest you when something really upsets you. Really lean into the upset mask, why is IT upsetting me so much and otherwise you're just sort of walking around with blinders and you don't know really what's import to you. You don't know who you want to spend time with.

So to not lean into your emotions and register them when you give up a lot because you're going to find out later in life oh yeah, no, I like you too or no, I would have been friends here. Yeah, weren't and hiring you, but you didn't follow up. You can persist whatever you might be, right? You should have applied a second time.

You should have applied the university the second, and whatever you might have been right. And also you just missed on the opportunity. Feel closer to people and have some sense of what's important you, what inspires you, what makes you sad, where, you know, I don't the guy ever told someone until I was well into my thirties that something they did upset me. I this notion, me, big, strong man, I don't get up things, everything to flex off me. I care.

Yeah, i'm actually working with a therapy over the last few months. And Austin, who worked with A A friend that way more, way more fucked up than I ever be. So I figured luck, if you can see through his bullshit, you can definitely deal with mine.

And this is latest to this. You realize, you know, just even talking about your emotions are being prepared to say them isn't quite the same as actually feeling them, feeling them fully, you know, having your emotions and your mind rest way, your fear. And there's layers and lays to this that I realized, especially maybe people that listen to podcasts like mine or yours who are interested in psychology in human nature and and can rationalize or explain away what they are feeling.

Oh, that's the negativity buyer. So that's the aben paradox so that I understand that this is because of my the bystander effect of people shit, right? Like they've got some mental model that allows them to explain what's going on inside through yeah, James clear talks about something similar and whatever, whatever.

And I realized that for a good chunk of people, wait more than might like to admit IT. That's a protection mechanism. Their ability to rationalize and explain away what's happening inside of their minds gives them an excuse to not have to feel their feelings fully.

I thought you this last weekend. Did you see what happened with kalo Williams, the quarterback for U. S.

A? no. So this kid is probable going to be that.

I think he's probably going to be the husband ropy winner and is probably going to go number one in the draft. And he's planning against washington. And he blows IT and gonna lose.

The guy breaks down and began sobbing and immediate runs over to the stands and jumps up and embraces his mother. And his mother puts this no book over his homes so that the crowd can see him crying. And his father comes over and consoles him.

And I thought, oh my god, this kid doesn't even realize he has moved mascula ity so far forward. And the ability to given to that sort of emotion, and do IT publicly, you know, so much of this fucked up sense of what that means to be a man is around bearing your emotions. And when you look at suicide rates, uh, and how they're now, they used to be three to one, male to female, and its approaching four to one.

One of the key components of that as men do never learn how to express they are driving and because they're taught from the very early age that real men don't express that sort of upset. So when you see this guy, he's probably premier quarterback, and college football is really like big hands, ridiculously strong guy in front of national T, V, jump up into his mother's arms. I mean, IT sends such a good signal, Young men, that it's okay to be emotional, it's okay to be disappointed.

I also think that such a gift to me, you're not a parent yet. You really as a parent, or you really want, you want two things. You want kids to be happy and successful, but you also want to comfort them like the any chance you would get as a parent become for your child.

IT is so rewarding, it's like, okay, I have purpose and remembers seeing that literally, the whole nation saw that moment. And I thought that kid unknowingly just moved masculine ity forward and just reduced the likelihood, or increase the likelihood that a Young man is going to have an easier time expressing to a family member and not family member. I am really upset.

And that is key to solving. That is key to getting out of a really, really dark place. And I thought, oh my god, it's such a moving moments.

Anyways, google a cable limes and you'll see the video. It's really very raw. It's very, very moving. And I wish that I thought I was. So I I think this kid doesn't realized what a pause of role model is.

I love that. Sorry, I awesome. I A lot of people on the internet, especially guys, will talk about not showing vulnerability in front of a female partner because it's going to lower her perception of you and the absolutely ob women out there who will see vulnerability is a weakness.

Now I think. If your female partner is unable to see you, show, bear your emotions without thinking your less of a man. I think that's a sufficient red flag in the relationship to be good that you're getting out of IT in any case.

But when I talked about this a little bit recently, guys took IT one step further. And when I said, okay, so let's say that you have a concern about showing emotions to your partner. What about showing emotions to your friends? And there are a whole bunch of people in the comments that I, no, no, no, like even doing that.

Even doing that is too far. You go, oh, okay. This is just your way of rationalizing and coping with not wanting to show your feelings.

This isn't to do with, you can say it's because of the outcome, the negative outcome that you going to get in some relationship and she's gona leave you for charge. Who's actually a stock bigger like bigger turbo like andry tate. But no, it's not. It's just the you want to failure your feelings. I had Chris bomb stead on the show who just won his fifth mister olympia classic physique title this weekend.

And I think you, if he doesn't cry on stage, he's kind of welling up as fifth time that he wins, you know, the hottest man on the planet award, like the most jacked greek god man on the planet award a and he told me the story about when he he broke down and cried in his girlfriend's arms six weeks before one of his olympic competitions. And he told me that because that's actually what happened and that's how we felt. And you're talking about the most hyper masculine look in lifting heavy weights, sweat in doing the full thing like he's the he's the sigma male im.

And yet for him he was fine to do IT. So yeah, I think a lot of what the modern culture of masculinity is doing is kind of a purposing the male denial of emotions into some more rationalized approach of, oh yeah, but you don't your friends to see you weak because then they're na, they're onna, move on and find a different friend oh yeah, you know your girlfriend or your wife to see week as she's going to leave you and sleep with the guy next door, right? So you just never go to feel your emotions at all. That doesn't seem very adaptive. That doesn't seem like a very good solution.

So I think a lot about this because from the to twenty nine to forty four, I didn't cry. I forgot how to cry. Like if someone said in the next week you're got, you ve got to cry once, or if you cry once, you going to get a million dollars, I would have to have, I would have to learn to do IT.

And I forgot how to try. Mother died when I got divorced, didn't cry when my businesses failed, just forgot how to cry. And now I probably well up in downright cry, wants to twice a week.

And it's a real gift to me. And I I have noticed. So I have registered different responses from different parties. I cry my pocket. If I get, if I start time, if I get a question from a listen and I start talking about that, I get upset, I will, I will get emotional.

And I find that people really respond well because IT helps them, put them in touch with their emotions that, yeah, I was really upset when I had to put my dog. Now I get, I get tremendous positive support from strangers whenever I am emotional amonges. My friends, we all, especially this age when one of us isn't doing well and shares and he matter just so good at sharing, like just how fuck and awesome they are all the time.

Oh yeah, I just made a million dollars on this trade. And so my company and we put up this instagram to saw this instagram meets on of finegan meets you know David back in the sad to each other or meet carl I on whatever and then when you really get behind you find out I am really struggling. Um you know I am my dad sick and I just had my business is not doing well and i'm worried about money or i've a friend is child just had a real mental health break down.

And what I find that is when, especially as men get older, they are really I find really supportive and receptive to one of us, I think women credibly receptive to each other's emotional and and vulnerabilities across, uh, your parents, your parents want to come for you. It's a teacher, not a bug for them. They they want to come for you.

Um i've had mixed reactions for my romantic partners and that is maybe i've chosen the wrong women I don't know but often times I feel like when I have express vulnerability in motion and weakness that they don't like IT and or less attracted to me uh that they feel like i'm not going to be is is viable or robust a protector and provider when I am depressed and down and that if I talk about IT, there's some lip service to how are you doing. But at the end of the day, they don't have at least and this might be my flaw. They don't have a lot of patients for weak men yeah I think this as weakness.

yes. I wonder how much of that is a selection effect for the kind of women that you're going for the kind of place self. Let me give you one of my spicy est new ideas.

I've got this idea of surplus mate value, which is when you have a relationship in which there is a disparity and mate value between the man and the woman, you can basically look at that disparity kind of like a bank account you can withdraw from, uh, so for one of a Better word, the man can mistreat the woman is like not reply to text or come home late, or, you know, like break promises or do whatever. And the goal will stick about because there is this disparity now ago that healthy with a good sense of self steam may not do that regardless of how much disparity mate value there is. But is a good example Christmas said this stood his wife like a ten.

She's a fitness model and super smart and like was a doctor and stuff as well. But he's like number one in the world like like it's impossible to be like as a have as high make value as he does. So one of the things that actually came out of the comments was, well, of course, chis bomb stead can crying his girlfriends' arms look at who he is like the hottest thing on the planet.

Like of course he can do that a bread pit. Of course he can trying in his girlfriend arms he's bad pit. So this idea of surplus mate value, I think, is interesting. But another one is if you are going after girls and women who are looking for that hard core protector provider and you then start to crack that fade a little bit or the crack tivo. Ia, um yeah maybe the organic respond to that in a in a sight interesting way.

I just it's what i've seen. I like to um you know my dad, I just like a the moment my dad lost his job and he kind of deserve this because he was never really engaged to shut up for his marriages but um I generally found choose s in my words carefully because this sounds really just mental I generally found and maybe was the camp of my days were mary of times but the moment my dad stop being a great provider, the the women were out and I think it's because they were like you said, they were getting so little on every other dimension that if he wasn't at least going to be at a minimum, a very minimum, be a good provider like when he got fired, when was fifty two and could not get another job than six months, SHE was gone yeah and and quite Frankly, he can have to coming because what you're basically saying as he got to bring something to the table, right?

And but it's still I think we have a tendency to sort of what's a turn back grants to assume that all men are naturally, we have a pretty position to type being the bad guy and all women are these incredibly high character. Good people in the reality is, and I think there's statistics to show this on a baLance score card, that there's mostly most women are really good people. Most men are really good people.

Uh, but it's not like, it's not like women aren't you don't have their own needs and have a score card out in terms of when they actually a relationship. And unfortunately, society has stigmatized mental health at the point that they're so little of its still I think it's been disagree sized across every demographic except strake men. I think if strategy expressed a certain level of mental health vulnerability, yeah and not going to be see of this company. I mean, I just i've seen that i've been on board a mail C O who takes a break and if he were to say I am strugling in my mental health, I was not going to be see .

and maybe that's IT had any equivalent of being early thirties, engaged and as yet childless as a woman. When you are going for the job interview and the boss is like, I mean, she's going to be she's going to months and then she's going to be full of children.

we lose yeah there's I mean, everyone has to deal you write, everyone has to deal with the stereotypes in the workplace and how IT sets them back. But again, IT just results in um I don't know, results in a bad behaviors that makes IT mean there is definitely something around alright and I don't know if we should be teaching in in schools.

But we're getting to the point now you know mental health is becoming such a biggest for men as relates to suicide. I mean, we're finding is essentially is that while men are physically stronger, women are emotionally and mentally stronger mean that if you were to to still IT down. And so I think um I don't call IT additional focus, but at least more focus on men's mental health is so critical to a healthy society.

There's this really moving out on mental health in the U. K. words. Two guys, two friends, they look like fifty years, sixties and IT shows them a different foobar matches. And one guys really enthusiastic and happy all the time.

And the other guys is much more to date and kind of calm and a little a little kind of, I don't know, just sort of melon colleague. And then IT shows up and IT says, IT says, you know, male health are struggles 呃， aren't what they appear to be. And then IT shows a game where the guy, one guy, shows up and puts his friends capped down in the seat and clear, you know, his friends go on.

And IT was the guy who was really effusive and happy. And the whole point is, unless you really to open up about what's really going on with you. And unless you invite your friends to open up about drilling on out with them, you just don't know and they might be the guide routing.

And that seems really happy, you don't know. And so I don't I don't know the approach, I don't know the mechanisms, but this every year, the ratio of people committing suicide goes up for man. It's now it's not going afford one.

I got this from rob henson blog. Among fifteen to twenty four year olds, eighty percent of the suicide .

mail a boy who is sexually molested and a girl who is sexually molested ah later in life and by the way, both equally heinous crimes no no one is a lesser crime against humanity. The boys ten times more likely to kill himself later in life and again that's not in any way to say one crime is is less hit is in the other. But we we're just finding out and we never thought this boys are just emotionally and mentally weaker.

I heard you say a really interesting take, which was the over compensation and the kind of. Extreme aversion that every single person has to pedophilia to an older man. Spending time with a Younger boy that isn't his son or a member of his family has created a massive death of role models of men that will take Young boys under their wing.

You know, even now for me, as a guy who's got an audience of in many of humor in the teenagers and stuff like that, even if I was to think about like fucking even sending a message to somebody like that, there's something in me that I A trigger, almost like an alert c response that i'm so averse to that that dynamic has been given such a very particular type of brand, which is older men. Younger boys, should not be interacting really, unless you're the because so many of the stories that reach the press are about people that have taken advantage of Young boys in that way has left an awful lot of potentially super valuable, caring, nurturing relationships just left by the wayside. And when I heard you say that, I thought, I thought was a very interesting idea.

I think this is a huge form because we know we can diagnose when the single point of failure for when men come after else and that as they lose a mail role model.

And I was talking to um uh rickwell son the political strategies of the lincoln project and he got emotional was on his podcast um the enemy's list and he talked about his father was in a terrible car accident and within a company for two years and his father's business partners, neighbors, all these men stepped in, taught him how to fly, took the games and he said, I kind of to save me, kind of keep me on track. And so when you're dealing with a society where we have the second most single parent family, ms, and we say single parent family homes, we mean a household LED by a mother. You know the same data, the girls have the same outcomes, college depression.

Same income boys have dramatically worse outcomes when they live a moral model. So the question is, alright, we could fill that void with other. They aren't necessary, biologically related, related to the boy.

But here's the problem. People suspect any man that wants to be involved in a Younger man's life. I meet the catholic church, and Michael Jackson have fucked up for all of us.

When I was on bill marr, I said, if we, if we want Better men, we need to be Better men. We need to get involved. We need to seek out and find boys and Young men who are struggling and need some help because they're everywhere.

They're literally everywhere. You're nand is kid, my nanny kid sticking at home doesn't want to do IT does not know where that you're join the navy is is gambling on crypto u like needs a small amount of advice right there everywhere. My friends son who will not listen to his father is making bad decisions, but will listen to his father's friends.

You've pointed this out, right? The father's friends, the families friends can have more impact than the actual parents, because you have a healthy gg. Flex to what your parents say.

Yeah, your dad sucks. But Scott, Scott, cool. He play.

Yes, he has a pocket.

He lets us play on P. S. Four until three. The cast.

And the same is true of my friends, are my sons. My sons are now having a health gag, reflects everything I say, but they find a lot of my friends really interesting, and my friends will say exact same thing, and they listened in on their head to get involved in a Young man's life is sober warning. There's this wonderful movie, I think, is west Anderson.

Actually, when the tom cruises best films called magnolia and the guy, there's a bar tender and IT. And he says, I have loved to give I just on a word to put IT. And I think there are so many men, men your age, that feel for internal love would really feel like they could help a Young man or a boy in his life.

When I, I stayed in touch, I made really good friends with my stockbroker when I was thirteen, my mom's boyfriend, who stayed involved in my life after they broke up, give me two inner box. I marched in the west with village, one in the dean witter. And I met this broker.

The thirty something girl broken him, sir. O and we we bought sixty. Give me a lesson in the markets.

We bought sixteen shares of columbia pictures and every day for two years, no joke and understand in your eyes. Go to the phone booth I put in two times and I call sigh. And he's spent ten minutes on the phone talking about my stock that day.

Close encounters of the third kind is a hit. So the stock was up a dollar, casey shadow with a bomb, it's down and a game less in the markets. And he was really nice.

And I, A good man, my can't counsellor, taught me how to programme. He stayed in touch with me and taught me how to program. I had all these random men in my life, not of them ever in anyway.

Did anything an appropriate? Also, we categories, zed, we steer a type gay man who may want to get involved in Young man's life. Pedophilia does not over index amongst me game, and any more than IT does among straight men.

Granted, should a mother or parents be thought ful about who's getting involved in their son's life? Yeah, but the vast majority of men, the vast majority of men who wanna get involved in Young man's life do IT for the right reasons. And it's hugely important. And I when I was on bill marr, I said, we need to get involved in men's lives.

And bill marr mei said, we you to say so no way if I got involved in a fifteen year old boy's life that start saying I was a pervert and that is there in lies the problem there is so much for internal and return al love out there for men who would like to find a Young man or a boy to help out. It's hugely rewarding for them. It's profoundly meaningful for the boy.

And people are afraid of IT and look skat IT. And it's gotto stop. It's gotto stop.

The majority. There are so many good men out there that have loved to give. But just on a way to put .

IT before we got started, you were telling me about some legion or limb that you had lopped off because because i'm if you're aging and part of you, part of you break. I been thinking about this for a while. We talk a good bit between us about the plight of Young men and then finding their place in the world and all of the rest of IT.

But there's an interesting like period of life, at least the im on at the moment, which is starting to realize that i'm i've probably passed the peak of how fit that i'm going to be, how physically attractive that i'm going to be. Now I can compliment that with status and wisdom and Grace and confidence employs yee and and all of the rest of stuff. But this is such a weird thing to talk about.

Aging Gracefully as a man, not just in the way that you look, but in the way that you think about yourself, you know, not having the same level of energy that you may be used to in all the rest of the end with diet and training and things you can extend IT. But when you get to whatever thirty five, forty IT is, you sort of hit this top of the hill and then you start to roll down the side like, it's like the story of the first time that your son beats you at basketball. You realized that you kind of passed the crown on a little bit. What do you say to Young, to guys who are in the thirties and forties and realizing the age is no longer just a number, but actually a thermal dynamic of their life?

Yeah, we feel your pain at three and five billion women. I mean, what you just described, women feel this worse than man. And because reality is how will you ris thirty five OK? So this the bottom line in terms of the romantic or sexual marketplace, your currently is going to continue to go up because you're going to get wealthier over the next ten years.

And unfortunately, unfortunately, women are disproportionate, valued on their physical appearance in terms of several appear cy. And men, unfortunate unfortunately, are just fortunately valued on their economic strength and influence. And yours is going to increase.

So no, in sex in the city, they called that the powerfin p and that is year year current in the marketplace is probably going to increase of the next fifteen years. In terms of your own physicality, I mean, you work out a time. I mean, you're probably not gonna feel that I felt that at forty seven, when I really felt to slow down like I just couldn't.

I was used to be able to roll in two thousand meters and whatever was seven and five minutes, and no matter how hard I trained to, just couldn't any longer. You know, there's just certain things that just start to go away and your body starts to starts to break down. And then what weird is the perception of I used to be the Youngest person in every room i'd walked in. I was, I was, I got, I had a lot of success early one.

The kid.

yeah. I was always the Youngest person in the room and oh, that's the Young guy that he he's the Young and then one day I walked in and I was the oldest and I felt like I was never the same age. Yeah but in terms of physically, uh, a guy like you, and this is why you really want to establish really strong. I mean, really I just I I guess back that advice for Young men, he had got to establish physical fitness habits and nutrition habits and sleepy gan.

Because if you aren't in every guy, that thirty five should be able to walk into any room and a chick out real that could kill any everybody out around them, one of the other because if you don't have IT by the time for thirty five forty, you're not strong or fast or adjust by the time thirty five, forty, oh my god, by the time you're fifty, you're just going to be a fuck in hot mess and you're not only gona you may live as long, but the quality life from fifty eighty are just going to be substantially worse. So I don't I don't buy. You're going to be fine until you're fifty.

What happens at fifty is is you get these kind of concern reminders that life is fine out and you can't stop time and that's that's kind of devastating and also uh or scary should say not deviating and also supposedly because for ninety eight percent of our time on this planet, we didn't live much past thirty five or forty. Our brain can literally can process how we look. So when I see myself in the merits, devastatingly strange to me, it's like it's horrifying.

The end county value of yourself yeah you're like.

okay, what is that alien being that should have dive fifteen years ago from A A bone cut hunting a man? There's something bit it's ageing is unforced ated by IT IT does a as you know the physical part of IT is hard um but those habits you said in your twenty years and thirties good or bad will Carry you or not into your forties and fifties but there is no getting around IT.

Men have its so much Better than women because when a woman hits her forties and fifties yeah just gets we can maintain our our our romantic sexual currency. IT is much harder for a woman society. I find that society in terms of the marketplace for mating is really hard on Young man uh like guys guys in or twice IT is hard to get arrested because the the women the most attractive to women are twenty is generally speaking, are usually dating up a choice.

They want men that are more emotionally and economic viable. So why is twenty? Twenty just has a really hard time, wants to be in a relationship. I remember thinking in my twenty years and i'd be such a great boyfriend and I just couldn't get arrested, just could not get arrested. And then I think the world becomes uh, increasingly fair to them and authorities and then this proportionally advantage to them in their forties and the exact opposite history of women.

This is why the disco online is dominated by people in their twenties, right? And that means that at the moment the mating market is very much well betide Young men, man falling behind. Twice as many men are single than women. This how many men haven't had sex and can't get a swipe on tender and so and so for but I think IT right, I think that the scales are round about baLance in your thirties, and then they pick IT back in your forties. And there's a know in my in all guys more juvenile moments that there is A A very bitter kind of satisfaction that the women who may be denied you when you were twenty two, I potentially going to be chasing after when you're forty two. And it's a incredibly immature mindset, but it's definitely one that I see on .

the internet for all of the struggles of Young men are having in mating um as a Younger man, the fear is that they never developed the skills and they end up along their whole lives and that that lack of a romantical relationship leads economic and security depression and they're just unviable made the rest of their lives they never dig out of that hole but but evo is said, new york is the bobsled of a capital society.

And I kind of indicates where the whole world is going. And the reality is new york is optimized for two types of people for forty something successful men and twenty twenty something attractive women. And it's it's a fucked in disney for both those groups and for everybody else.

It's to sol crushing experience. Be a nice guy who's got is act together in your twenty years and thirties, a good person, but you're not making back, you can get arrested be an interesting woman, attractive single in our late thirties, early four in your that's not a good place to be either. And I feel like the world is becoming more like york and less than less. And what we need is more places and opportunities for men and women to really get to know each other and spend time with each other, such that they can, again, sort of fall in love, instead of this kind of like swipe left or swipe right society of this consumptive culture. But yeah, you cite you're going to be you're going to be just fine.

I appreciate that as my non pedophilia elderly advise here.

Thanks for that. Thanks for that. I'll get A T shirt that .

says that could be epigraph one of my friend's alex mosi has masculinity and six words, do no harm, take no shit. And I think that that's A A nice summary. Do I appreciate the hell out of you? Ah thank you for all of the support and continuing to share my means on CNN or wherever all that is you go bilma.

Uh, what's next? You've got two books next year. One book at least next year.

I got a book coming on on financial literacy called the auto of wealth. I'm starting to think about writing a book on masculine ity, although everyone I run into is writing a book on masculine ity or trying to redefine IT and you know, just do the same thing. Got my podcast, got my you know, I got my sons for another five years.

So i'm trying to lean into the out of bunch. We just went to the brand and ford man was a and ford, yeah, i'm so brandford west time game on saturday. We're going to .

arsenal severe.

I'm drinking tea right now. Look at this.

I am drinking tea. It's pretty milky. yeah. Kind of that would that would be considered a builders brew in certain areas of the U.

K, but you are done so. So I give you that i'm arrangers. I'm a texas ranger.

Ous found they won the world series. So we've swapped nationalism in terms of our sporting desires. A Scott away, ladies and gentleman, Scott, I appreciate you. I can't wait. Tell you back on to talk about financial literacy and what of the hell is you write next?

Hi Christman. Congrats on your success.