#721 - George Mack - Why Can No One Think Rationally Anymore?
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Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My yesterday is George mac is a writer, marketer, and an thinking for yourself is one of the most important skills you can develop. However, it's hard.

It's a difficile task to overcome the boring, negative, irrational trends around you, which is why you need some new tools in your mental models box. Expect to learn what the kingsand beauty contest is. Why means are so influential in society today, which behaviors appear positive but actually harm you? Disguise what the forgetting paradox is, what the most useful emotional states, why ignorance is.

Bliss is a put down in twenty, twenty three and much more. George has been coming on the show for five years now. And every single time that I get to speak to him, I love IT.

He has one of the best insights into human nature and social trends and why we are the way we are. And I just love IT. This is what we talk about over dinner or coffee, and it's exactly the same conversation now, minus the coffee in the dinner.

And one week today is Christmas can be Christmas day and there will be no episode on Christmas day time to, but you fun down and spend IT with the people that you enjoy that around you. But we've got a Christmas special coming out. We have got a lessons from twenty twenty three episode this thursday, which is so good and was one of the biggest, most played episodes of last year, so you don't miss that.

And then in between Christmas and new year, we've got some more special stuff too. So I hope that you are winding down appropriately, ready for the new year also, if you need a annual review, you can get that right now for free by going to Chris. Well, x stock com slash review is an annual review template i've used every single year to recap the lessons from the last twelve months and planned the year ahead. You can get that right now for free at Chris wl x dot come flash review. But now, ladies and gentleman, please welcome George mac.

The kingsman beauty contest, what's that?

So the kingsman beauty contest is this idea of different levels of human interaction with things. So and let's say you lined up a hundred people and Chris has to go rank them in order who's the most attractive? That's like level one.

But level two, quite a simple idea. But level two is when you're also predicting what everybody else in the room will think. And what's really interesting is what Chris wal rank is very different to what he will think everybody else will think.

And then level three is a noble layer when you have to factor in everybody else knowing that everybody else he's playing the game. And what's interesting is when they run these experiments, let's say they asked people to rate the cute dog video. What they think is the q test.

This is what the group, then when they vote for the group, will be the cutest IT completely becomes different. So when people are aware of other people's perceptions to completely shaped things. So in terms of like a pratts collaboration for this.

there was a period where the lib .

dems were voting higher and higher in the polls, almost up there with conservative and labor. So people were saying of, these guys are great. These guys are great.

But then when IT comes to that level, two thing, or what is everybody else going to vote for? People don't actually vote for them because they're factory in everybody else. So when you're dealing with thinking systems or other people in predicting what they're going to do, the behavior becomes a lot more complex as a result.

Yeah, there's an interesting study that was done on women giving the level of education when they know that other people are going to see the answers and when they think it's going to be kept private. And female introspection ual competition says that women should dow played their successes so that they don't get sabotaged by potential other females that are trying to a derogate them. I pulled them in somewhere.

Now they get that new tonic and you go on you um and what that means is that when women know that other people going to see the other people going to see their answers, they downplay what IT is that they ve achieved when they are keeping in private, they tend to be a little bit more truthful. But you know the ability paradox is not familiar with this at me. You're going to absolutely adore this.

So couldn't the first introduced me to the right? And it's just again, when you see IT, you can't and see IT. The above paradox is a situation in which a group makes a decision that is contrary the desires of the group's members because each member assumes the others approve of IT.

IT explains how a number of accurate individuals can become idiots when they get together. So I think emperors new clothes in a way. And acquaintance invite you to his wedding despite not wanting you there because he thinks you want to attend.

You attend despite not wanting to because you think he wants you there. At a business meeting, someone suggest an idea he thinks the others were like. Perhaps recruiting a trans influences is the face of the brand.

Each member has misgiving about this, but assumes the others will think that they're transformed. C if they speak out. So everyone approves the idea despite no one liking IT or every member of a family in north korea who hates communism, but they never mentioned this to each other, because eats each assumes that .

the others approve of IT you this or i've had this on social occasions as well. You will be at dinner and they'll be getting later in later, and nobody's left here. And sometimes i'll start there, look at the clock and I can leave my ve. And then one person only.

The higher agency exit is a mexican wave of fail exit.

whole thing exit. And what's beautiful about the candian beauty contest is that IT deals with reflective systems where people's perceptions shape reality and reality shapes perceptions. Does this great? So George or us um does this amazing financial times article that he wrote about reflexion vy and talib said this on fairs.

I didn't know if you knew this that so I wanted IT to be philosopher, but basically just cut the shadow career, crashing the pound and becoming like one of the big intention for manager in there. But one of these, one of these ideas is this concept of reflexivity, which is like, so a statement of the weather is going to be rainy today that's not reflect IT, because i'm dealing with a natural phenomenon in the sense that my thinking or my words doesn't shape reality. So he said that on T, V, that doesn't change forever.

yeah. But if you go on T, V and o, this is a revolutionary moment. The statement impacts reality. So you see these feedback loops between perception, reality, thinking on reality. So when you're dealing with human beings, the systems are so much more complex, which is why you see these mean stocks pump and down, because people are, everybody else is .

thinking the mean stock is going right well, that everyone is trying to not only work out what they think about the thing, but future project, what other people will think about the thing, and then adapting the projection and trajectory of the future to account for that.

yes. And then also thinking the other people are thinking that about the overall thing as well. So that's how complex things can become.

Robin done by taught me that the main reason, in his opinion, that human beings brains got so big is not so that we could more accurately remember whether food is, or use tools, or fire, or or contemplate to the higher mysteries, is because if you live in a thirty person part of one hundred and fifty percent tribe.

And I know George, and I know that George's friends with dean, but dean used to be friends with George's x friend josh, and now dean and josh. So and is this very complex intersecting web of hierarchy, and who's in and who's out and by how much, and who used to be like this? So the human brain largely is a like facebook friend tracker with notes and dials that you can can keep in touch ate.

And that's why he said that human brains got so big, because computationally to trying. Do you know this is like one squad versus two square, versus three square verses four square, the numbers just run away with each other. And that kind of how IT it's like thirty, thirty people and each of their interactions with each different person now and in the past and in the future. And what do we gonna happen?

I think just, yeah the idea of reflexivity as a whole. And then when you see IT, you can't unc IT. I don't if you ever done any cognitive behavior therapy, but there's this most simple model in there, which when you go OK, this all makes sense now.

And it's like the reflexivity of the human mind where you have a triangle, which is how you think, how you act, how you feel, and all three of them impact one another. So how you feel impacts how you think and act. How you act impacts how you think and feel, and how you think impacts how you feel an act.

And then when you begin to see this triangle constant exists, and I had the biggest middle with me moment ever is a way out in late como, perfect scenes. And I was driving this little speed. But I was like, i'm fucking James bond right now.

Like, i'm living in the dream, right? Anyway, I see a video back and my face is, like I said to the person who fill the video ago, is this one. My face is like, all the time.

I O yeah, you never really smile. Resting bitch. For I had resting. And I honestly think one of the highest, like R Y things of just shaping perception is, and you told me you have attack of a smile.

that a smile, yeah. And I listening .

to the same high pot city did of checking on the present moment. And just rather than focus on the breath, just focus on how your facial expressions are. And just the simple IT is the highest thing that just moving into a brief smile, a, your perception completely changes. But b, as a reflective system, rather than people going fucking how that guys .

really serious. Yeah, I I realized that I was socially, animals especially, told the end of my twenties, add in my teens, and then getting into the start of my and that's a reflective recursive system as well. Because if you're nervous around people, people might interpret that as nervousness or as seriousness or whatever, which means that people treat you in a manner which is less warm because you appear less warm, which means that you see the world as an adversary, not as a competitor, at which means that you then are less capable of opening up. And there ago.

that is the same with the thinking, feeling and acting thing, right? So for example, you have the for I am a introvert and I hate going out, therefore you feel a bit more, want him to stay in a bit down, and then you act like that. And then that cycle completely repeat itself, and it's so simple, and is why cognitive havidol erp y has such an empire when you can see that triangle. yeah.

And then which leave are gonna? Give you my theory about introversion. Most people on't introverts, their friends just suck even around. Like if if you get an trovers around the right people, then no longer introverted and it's a recursive loop. As far as I can see, many of people who believe that the introverts are just in the wrong social group.

One of the questions I was going to ash you about is things you change your mind on. And on this specific point, I had that realization where, when COVID happened, a lot of people experience this, where they start going online and their meeting so many interesting people. Because the online world you immediately go to, like global maximum, like the best of online, and then you can immediately think that gonna online.

From now i'm going to doing zoom calls. Over time, i'm going to be in telegram chat, and my online friends are so much more interesting. But the realization is just because get getting to global maximum, or like the peak of the internet, you just log on on you. There you find a little tribe, but trying to find that in person is really difficult. But then when you find that it's like a hundred x.

yes, deeper. One of the interesting things that happened with the internet is IT allowed people with very initial interests to find out the people got ntia. This is all of redit right? right? IT is refined not by individuals, but by topics.

And IT makes you unique in summer regards right for social media. Um that's been great because people that are into obscure late eighties and me from one particular region of japan or whatever are able to get together and enjoy whatever is that they're into. So good for a selection effect but bad for depth, right and in person very difficult to find the three of the people.

In your five hundred thousand percent city that also into the subsequent omy. But if you were to find them, the level of depth of of connection, which is why I think using the internet to explore and then using in person to exploit is the best pardon. That's how we met. Yes, you know, we're selected to become from through the internet. And then once you do that, you O K, let's twice this in to in persons.

What super strange about this though is all you need is one in person event. If example you never meet and you use the digital layer is the foundation. So you just text chats, video calls, you could stack like thousands of them verses. If you have one physical experience, the access, like the, the, the floor that you then stack everything else on top of, it's so much richer. You only need a few in persons meetings.

be able to it's the reason why I I put IT in my news later this week. I think I was a always say yes to dinner. And if someone's coming through town and you may be a little bit tired and you just don't know whatever, whatever, but you ve been a kind of a bit interest in this person in a while, you've been checking to my internet or something, uh, just say yes to go to dinner and the number of times that just saying yes to a meeting, a quick coffee with somebody, catch up.

But whatever IT is, the number of friends that you have on the internet is so vast, and the number of people that you've met in the real world is so small that if you can be the sort of person who stepped out of internet friend and into real world friend, which only takes thirty or sixty minutes to, you know, traverse that particular, if you were to just like high five someone in an airport as you're both rushing for the planes. I don't think that does IT. I think there needs to be a little bit of cost that needs to be a little bit of investment of time put in.

I'm going around about sixty minutes, you know that a dinner would be more than enough to be able to get this done. But if you can do you know a trip with somebody, if you can go away with somebody, if you can go through something a little bit more difficult like, uh, taking mushrooms, what's doing they are um then yeah you can you can get out on the other side means both of us a massive funds of means you're going to meet mary hring to a little bit later on today who came up with mean first, explain later before we even get in to talk about the most important means that I want to run through with you. Why what is IT about means and stickiness of ideas that so important? Why do you think that so crucial to get right?

So the first point is that mean itself. The world is an ironic word. It's kind of like this, lexi. Like, no delete. I can spell this lex here.

And the word mean is itself quite a bad mean, because when you say mean to most people, what do they think they think of a dog photos on the internet? So you need to zoom a little bit. First of a me is essentially just a spread ble idea.

And how the story spreads from people to people. So dog photos is part of that. But you have OK bua.

You have Karen n code. Learn to code. Make amErica great again. Like all these things where you hate them, love on whatever are means, and they spread.

And you see this where these ideas that have existed, the haven't had the right mean kind like a product that hasn't had the right marketing. And then you create a mean for IT. And group like Christmas been around for so long, people have to spoke about, was always so known. Carma was like the most uncharismatic topic to talk about.

I want like, sorry, charlie, sorry.

But all of a sudden you create the world, rise, and everyone was, is. And then the language shapes perception. And then people actually talking more about IT.

Same with the word ec, like the fact that you then have this plays holder and then discuss these things. But I think the fundamental thing with a good mean is the almost looking at like a simple algorithm. And thanks to cove IT.

Like i've not about k factors for is right or our numbers. It's essentially for lesser. We've covered different strains.

How if I had IT or one person had IT, how many people they spread IT to? If you go over one, then it's exponential growth. This is a big thing in the star up and text space for a while. So when you analyzing a facebook coming along, how many when Chris joins, if he brings one more person with him, on average, then just infinite growth until until IT disappeared.

But with a mean, what you need for that k factor is essentially the level of emotion and the friction for IT to spread and how simple IT is to understand the more complex IT is um the the less than me. Where is when you shot IT down to raise its catching? It's three it's three letters all of a sudden of .

death land um yeah I was talking to the do the a founded legende foods, the cinema thing I gave you all you're run and I was saying to him, what do you call the category of products? Do you ve got that? We ve got a craft, the everyone that pointing in this direction as a craft table filled with protein goods over the, and I like IT, what do you call what you do is like we've been trying to uh, like no one could do this for ages because the closest thing is protein bar, right? But IT doesn't capture what's there because this crisis and there's a cinema role and there's a pop top and like donuts and stuff.

So it's not a protein bar health snack, a protein conscious confectionary treats like healthy, sweet, like what you know. And it's all about getting the mean right. And if you get the mean right, everything downstream from that works.

Um the episode did with eric wind stein really nice tweet about the fact that he was talking about making the um the temporary archival I think the femoral archival and he likes the idea of filming things in high quality because he gives IT more gravitas and more ever Green sort of lindon nature but he said to me of a text a in a stickiness arms race. Great ideas don't stick around because they're insufficiently sticky so you can have an amazing idea that called protein bar but IT needs a Better mean name yeah. And you can do the reverse as well, which is what people are very skeptical of, which is this is a cool sounding name, product, category, movement, whatever. But there's no there there that's right. It's just mean and no yeah all mean.

no substance. Yeah ah yeah once you see you can't unsay and my I mean is already happened. So I don't think this is a crazy prediction, but you look at the twenty twenty four election or insert future elections now, thanks to social media, that will be decided by who has the best means, not who has the best policies.

And once you see that, you can and see IT. And I think the the key thing to them factory is now you have global internet. In the next level you kind of seeing IT now is spotify.

Two years from now, maybe we'll be speaking right now in portuguese because of this A I language translation. So you then in fact in languages is no longer going to be a barrier. Internet adoptions going to be completely global as like parts of the third world, fully hop online. And the older generation dies out. The ability for a mean to go from nothing to twenty four hour infestation of the entire world like a virus, be a positive and beautiful or negative destructive is is about to happen.

I was talking to somebody who his book title was a pn right, which kind of like a mean I could play on words IT was like a book about sex called you're doing IT wrong or something like that right? Ah and he mentioned that he was stalling the translation rights but because was what you're doing with me with puns specifically, which is the kind of me is playing in multiple interpretations of the same word or the same sentence but by design that doesn't translate over into a the languages so his great piece of advice was if you're going to write a book title that you intend to go international, don't use a punt because you can end up like talking about, 呃， the flight of pigeons are something by accident, because they are trying to retrod your pun to this new language, which doesn't work. Which means that you have to either compromise the pun entirely, or keep the fun, but lose what the actual context.

Well, on that specific point, the to explain memes is essentially to say, people judge a book by its cover. The age of advice don't judge a book by its cover is because people judge a book by its cover. So if you can spread.

they are they are trying to stop us from a enacting our nature.

So one mean that I think is terrible, that I think so important for people to understand is, and we use when you use this word a lot like if you had to graph y in terms of words we speak after, like the and and a few hours water, this one's up there, which is leverage, like we use leverage all the time. And I originally got IT from the balls book almona c and I, when I heard that I almost didn't want to meet, I didn't fully understand that.

I didn't want to. Sounds stupid. So we'd go in research. I go, okay. So this I called armees.

And if you have enough leverage and engineering, you can create things where the for the import can produce a much great at output. You, so people will use IT like that. So when I create the company, I try to create the cultural value around leverage.

I created this google sheet, and everybody would input in there like the highest leverage test that week. So that was one of the values that we tried to create a company and every of value made sense, but would go in there. And we do these weekly checking calls.

I never won't be like I ve unless of you, I don't know what highest leverage task means and as like huh and then you zoom out right now you've got like the instagram you chat on the hardest working on in the room yeah then you have the kind of me of smart work first is hard work yeah and none of IT, none of IT really sticks, especially coming from an educational system yeah and then when you begin to fully understand, like code leverage, media leverage, capital leverage, labor leverage, IT begins to stick a little bit more. And I thinking, how do you actually get this into an idea that begins to. Translate one of the terrible ideas that I do have for this, which I bring up because it's it's on here, which he's a lot of napkin math but is essentially I wanted to use as a kid story but I need to change the name to begin with.

Animator is called hugo jeff base, or on his right, vers vers, the world's hardest working mom. So we have this story of these two individuals competing against each other, because I identify with the world's hard. Hard is working a group watching an eric Thomas videos of, like, you ve got to want IT as bad as you want to break like that kind of stuff and ultimately, so lets say, example, we give this instagram guy who trust about hard work.

This guy is Better than everybody else because he doesn't sleep. He worked twenty four hours a day, right? Jeff, woken up like eleven fifty, like nagging headed, is probably the best of the tim iv drops in the world, goes on his jet ski that day, probably does a zoom call this chess coach like whatever who's worked hard of that day.

If you judge in the old fashion interpretation that I think a lot of us have that don't understand leverage because we don't get engineering and things like that. You go well, he's watch twenty four hours that day, just done a few slack messages, but I was like trying to go, well, what if you actually ran the napkin math? So right now, if you looks at IT is purely like outputs.

So this guys got twenty four outputs of hours of many. You will work that he's been doing. Where is jeff been sent his ask if you look at like that, about twenty four to zero.

But all of a sudden, when you begin to quantify leverage, you go, 啊。 This begins to click little bit. So this is nicky mass from about a year ago.

So the point of napi mass is not to be in the comment section saying that this is right. I know some of these numbers are around, but just it's for the mp pho. So jeff has one point six million people that work for amazon.

So let's say they all work eight hours per day. Jeff achieved twenty point eight million hours of work that day. Then if you looked at robot leverage.

So amazon's warehouse, when I looked at these statistics, has five hundred thousand rooming ing factory robots. A W S has one point eight million service. They all work twenty four seven for him.

That's fifty five million hours of robot work per day. Where else has been SAT on that year? I'm not even going to get into how much more output a robot can achieve a hour than a year. Let's just give the holidays working that, that you can keep up with them. okay?

Then you look at advertising leverages, amazon spends forty six million dollars per day on marketing asm assuming IT cost him twenty dollars to reach one thousand people, um he's receiving two point three billion impressions per day. Hardest working guys going around knocking on doors, right, trying to sell his products. So so gifs advertising leverage is about the equivalent of doing ninety five million hours door knocking a day.

Then you look at media leverage. So switch gets seventy one million hours of content mode every day. Amazon prime has one hundred and seventeen millions describers.

Let's assume that the ten percent watch one hour a day. That's a eleven million hours of content fude every single day. So that's eighty two million hours of storytelling done in person that this guy would have to do so.

And then let's not go into all the other things you could think of relate to amazon. So hardly working on the rooms were twenty four hours. Jeff SAT on his yacht with a hangover and watching bits of succession and zooming away, because achieve two hundred and forty four million hours of output.

And then when you've IT like that, the whole leverage complexity, the the reason why leverage is about mean is because you need other topics and other realizations from engineering to understand IT, which prevents IT from spreading. When you go, oh, hunger. Japs are on his yard.

First is hardest working man in the world. You could realize that in the twenty first century, despite probably the P, T, S, D. From the education system, leverage is more important. But is a ship mean?

Shawn puri has this idea about what you work on is way more important than how hard you work. And he says, hard work is very overrated and he I think he refers to himself actively refers to himself as as a successful lazy man and he optimize for laziness and friction listeners. And um yeah it's the same you know the janitor or some guide that to working double, triple shifts. That amount of effort doesn't have an in kind return to them compared with somebody who is able to leverage code on media or labor or capital or even just picking the same amount of input that theyve got with very limited leverage. But on a Better task, a task that has more potential upside long term.

The the keeping is to remove the conversation around hours work that we had from school and just be inputs, outputs. So I have this number of inputs. What number of outputs am I getting? And remove the concept of hours work to remove everything else.

And all of a sudden that mean is a little bit sticker, whether that's gonna A A kid story or not, probably not. I need to adapt the title bit, but I think to view, view leverage through that makes an easy idea for people to understand. But the reason why leverage is about me is because people don't have the engineering knowledge. IT doesn't spread, which is White, such as silicon valley concepts. And I think this idea still hasn't .

fully ripped through society. Don't forget as well the exponents, tires and squares on something that the human brain is built to work out. It's like that I want one square of one piece of rice on the first square of the chess board and two pieces of rice on the second score of the chessboard all way up.

And by the time you get to the final square on the chess board, you got more pieces of rice and they are fucking particles in the universe or something. We just don't deal well with exponentials, which means that leverage inherently given that it's dealing with um unfair multiplicative, right? It's a multiplicative system rather than an additive system for the most part.

It's this time this, not this plus this ah it's just gonna tough to understand. You've got a an idea. The best means compressed massive motion into a simple contagious concept like OK boomer or Karen. I mean, well.

first of look at OK bomber who doesn't understand that two words. Karen, who doesn't understand that make amErica great again, who doesn't understand that you can hate those means, but it's compressed so much emotion. So let me OK bom one.

It's compressed so much emotion of the millennial and jens being spoken down to by the boomer generation who have mess up a lot. And it's completely compressed all that down and bom that spreads. Same with Karen. Same we've even the word make amErica great again like this. So much emotion way more .

than its for words. yes. It's way more than the constituent parts yes, yes, yes.

And IT, which means it's all it's I forgot who said IT it's the idea of i'm sorry, I didn't write you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time yes, the people look at IT and go are that so infer wrote this ten thousand, what I say that novi ever read? What is this mean of spread? But you need to be able to optimize for that k factor, but you need to be able to compress as much a motion into that word for IT to spread.

This did the mean industrial complex used to be the preview of main street media where they ever creating means effectively. Or is this internet thing? Again.

it's a little bit reflexive in the sense that they both interact, right? So what rep. t. Murdoch would put on the news was because he kind of knew what people would like, and then what people liked was kind of because what they saw on the news, and this is constant thing here. So report modoc er or that generation of the mean industrial complex to owned everything include control the narrative actually think is ironic that they have made succession now because they wouldn't be able to make IT ten years ago because he had so so much power right first is now it's like we can do what we want.

IT would have seen more like a documentary than a drama.

And you can see why the mainstream media dislike social media so much, because the mainstream media had the mean industrial complex and that they could put ideas out there and control the narrative. Where is now? The mean industrial complex is essentially bottom down approach of completely decentralized meaow cracks to some extent.

Yeah, it's all the users rather than the gatekeepers that are .

a few alga m developers who nobody, these faceless algorithm developers, can be a little bit there and go, you know what, on youtube. Now we actually prefer long form in the algorithm boom, and that just completely shifting. So it's weird how you've got these kind of faceless algorithm m create us now. And these face craters, the own, the mean industrial complex.

The last means or most of the means that you see that come out of mainstream media, accidental means. So it's a guy trying to propose to his wife a baseball game or something that gets wiped out by a security guard or something. It's not it's never something that is designed to be funny.

It's always the by product of something that was supposed to be something else which has come through in that way. I've also got this idea about how if you want to be able to predict the future, look at a current cultural movement or mean that hasn't had the inverse already made. So twenty twenty cover gets released that summer.

Everyone has to stay in the house. Twenty twenty one Megan d dalian starts talking about hot girl summer. Last year you weren't able to be free and liberated. Therefore, this year, uh, you can be your best self.

You clamp up, go out with the girls, sleep with the guy at such a twenty twenty two is feral girl summer, which is, you treat yourself like an animal, don't wash on, shave, just put back your clothes on and and don't take any care of yourself. Another version, pick a partisan comes out sort of late twenties, early twenty tens. Then you get that sanitized by me too, which is a counter culture movement in some regards, not just to that, but to other stuff.

Then you have red pill. Then very quickly you have makeup and black pill that comes out of IT. So if you want to predict the future of means, look at a mean that being created that hasn't had its inverse uh, come out too because every movement needs its counter movement in order to be able to baLance IT.

Because there is a market, there is a mean market for anything which is not the thing which is currently popular. For every movement that will always be is like the equal opposite force thing. For every meme, there is an equal opposite me that comes out.

What question for you is what do you think is, you know, we had the chat last time of what is ignored by the media, but will be studied by historians. And what we're kind of saying there is what's a really important topic that hasn't had its full me moment yet, right? And what do you think think about what do you think of is super important topics that just haven't like .

haven't been mean directly that's a really .

haven't call on yet, a will catch on like what idea and crazy today but five, ten years were not like, oh yeah that's .

the thing yeah I think um. A lot of individual personalities. Uh, so this this seems to be a very effective way to get means to moving like the the mean of the sigma mall, which is kind of the guy who steps outside of the of the hierarchy.

I don't think that there's very many good means for women. I don't think that there's been many like archetypes. Most of them like derogatory in a lot of ways. So like you know like the Karen, the party girl like to buy yt check.

Um there's not many that the I think I like almost aspect ration all in a way and maybe this speaks to female personality and disposition that they don't how you know I don't know about girls but guys would happily have like he man or the rock or whatever on a bedroom post to all but girls would also a lot of the time have guys like some hot uh, singer. I don't know whether a goes use role models and aspirational admire able figures like if you went into a teenage girls badge amma had a posture b. Jordan Peterson quotes on the wall, you think likely that take you off to psychic therapy? Um so yet thirty individuals in some ways like means for uh, aspirational means for girls. I think that is a massive market for them. What about you?

This is I think, one of the most important topics. But it's so ugly and boring. And I even work like, i'm first of saying this, because I can just feel people like skipping to the next youtube.

Jt, as soon as I say this, but give me like a minute to just say, and it's that even the word now, are you gonna go, all right, cybercrime, right? It's just like nobody takes IT seriously, but it's so fucking in important. And just two, maybe give a bit of a story that's going to help with this.

If you heard of the bangladeshi bank hist, no, now we're talking in right. This is to know your mind and get IT doesn't sound good right now. It's going be good.

So the biggest bank robbery in history was, I think it's about sixty million dollars in brazil in about twenty fifteen sixteen with cybercrime. Recently, they almost hacked one billion dollars from the bangladeshi bank using the swift system, right? The context that year the bangladeshi GDP was like two hundred and thirty billion.

So think with GDP as well, its movement of money. It's not total money if Chris sends George ten and I send IT back, but that act tods the GDP but it's just as exchanging money so imagine taking one billion dollars like that from a developing country immediately. Um and the only reason that fail, the only reason this isn't there will be I think five within five to ten years there will be a covered like moon remember pandemics before cover IT was like bird food.

Fine if you just be like all the sudden should try to get clicks and things like that. Remember I used to tell people about cover in january, february. I won't say hope, but used to call me conspiracy for bringing up cover IT.

And now obviously that pandemics are taken very seriously. But there will be a nine eleven or rob cove IT like moment for cyber, where things get very, very dark, very fast. I think the angle as you bank is, is only a tiny example of that where you go from sixty million dollar robbery in person to one billion overnight.

And the you know, the only reason why I failed is because the hackers that are working on the system, so they emailed, they sent an emails with A C V application, the person that the bank clicks on, the cv. In fact, everything, yeah, they are working on IT for year, the time IT perfectly during the new year's holidays. Everything about this heights has come perfect.

Very mind. This bank would only move about three hundred k around the swift system that goes to the federal reserve in amErica because this one billion and they like, yeah, sure. So it's like the security systems weren't in place.

The only reason that failed is because two, two things. One of they had a typo for the addresses, so literally IT didn't fail because of the amount. IT failed because of human error.

Human error they like. And IT was a really basic english spelling that they made a mistake. And then to the bank in the Philippines they were sending. IT, too, was called jupiter street, and jupiter was a company associated with iranian money launder ing. So IT just happens to flag in the system.

Otherwise I would have gone through billion from bangladesh.

like one of the poorest countries in the world, like of that. And the impact that has. And you then begin to realize what happens at one point when certain airlines get attacked, certain banking systems get attacked. And we like, but because I say the word's side of security and only three percent of the audience have Carried on right now so boring. But we need we need stronger means around .

IT because it's such an important topic yeah wasn't IT you tell me some story about the salary that was just offered for the british head of cyber security.

So the head of cyber security in the U. K. We spoke about this last time, got offered a salary or like unlinked in jobs.

IT was fifty five to sixty five k pounds for the U. K. A thousand thousand.

yeah. Which at list is obviously great income for most of the world. But for the head of cyber security.

when you dealing with hackers that are trying to steal one billion dollars, yeah. Yeah it's just evidently something actually but that specifically, i'm onna guess, a governmental problem because i'm going to presume the head of cyber security at facebook is I aid an ungodly amount of money because they are already red piled on just how deal this is.

But if facebook goes down, it's obviously a big issue. But if government systems go down a lot worse.

if the emotion caused by the meme is greater than the friction of spreading IT, you've cracked the me algorithms. M is .

exactly that that that is example of a simple but not easy truth. That is all means, does the emotion outweight the friction of spreading IT? If so, you've created that positive one number, that IT begins to spread, spread, spread, spread, spread. So simple.

you've got one and hit the same as much. The easier way to predict the next meeting, to look at the current means and bat on counter means appearing. He took that for me. You Better have done potentially. He was my idea, the fastest growing companies that the next ten years will have a chief meme officer working for them, directly or indirectly.

I like if you look at all these fast growing consumer businesses, they are, they either have achieved me, officer in house, so you can think of these influences. Celebrity is the a maggi with proper wealth, the magna mean, and all the kind of sub means that he creates around him. Who the fuck is that guy? And sea seta then product there or will have means working by through them indirectly that they'll ride on.

So like we was chatting about maric health, this is an a plague. But um you obvious ly your test strain numbers go through the roof yeah and people human the human man mean people checking about optimization. And I guess they do have direct run IT but still riding that me movement yeah. If in IT five to ten years from ten years ago, IT probably won't have the impact that happening. But now, chief me officer, indirectly or directly.

boom. Yeah ah it's I think I learned about this word. You're glowing. You told me about that while the goes back told me about him. Then mark on show about as well.

You know, that is like when someone looks like a federal plant and they are putting across information that is to um persuade the popular but people can see through the fact that they're actually doing IT on behalf of the C I X. C I A agent says the C I A isn't listening to your phone calls. Make your glowing, right? Like that's a sort of shit, they'll say.

But I think people are skeptical now, even if means perfect, perfect, perfect example, did you see what jim shocked did with Francis ago where we broke that door? So the orange um you see where Francis garnet a broke a door not right. So jim shock, like fed .

video.

aren't to read IT, but they created A C C, T V of a person that was supposed to be Frank in ghana didn't turn out to be him. A breaking the door of the corner shop.

the glass door was close.

right? I made stage that created IT, used a stunt double instead of Frances for the bit where the glass breaks, put Frances back in, had him get shouted out by this fake shop keeper in a fake shop front, a fit using a burner account on to redit and then reddit got picked up by twitter, and then from twitter, IT got picked up in signal boost and some people saw through IT like this looks like IT because he's weing jim shock, this looks like a, uh, a plant from James shark.

A A whatever whatever, but for the most part made headlines. Papers picked up on IT all the rest of IT. So yeah the how would you say the like contrived mean complex or the manipulated mean complex like the mmc um is something that everyone skeptical about.

You know I look at each portal now like a mean information highway, and each one produces different means just due to the constraints of IT. So the means that get produce from tiktok.

a quite unique and correct particular.

But where is people that come out of youtube yourself? Slightly different. What's interesting that is most means that get created you go back in IT ready its full chance maybe bits of twitter and IT goes down the me information highways and then ends up linton.

I all roads lead to boma face yeah ah .

what's that message from?

I wonder whether one of the reasons that fortune and redit work particularly well is our written means the most robust of all, because you can turn something that works on written into video, into spoken. But the reverse doesn't necessarily true. Like there is that one of the dude drinking, was he drinking like ocean fresh crime reduce, while the skateboarding down the street listening to let zapp ine or something like some song from some band and then these songs now number one across the world, because this one dude skateboard IT was drinking crm reduce or something fucking sales of crime reduce went through the roof and he's now the ambassadors cking ocean fresh or something um that does not necessarily translate across onto written word, but most written word means can be translated across and do get used potentially.

But I think another factor to so you know you heard the pollution effect, you stack the multiple biases. So on that specific point, I think you've got that. But it's not just that. It's also the fact that most people on there is anonymous and anonymous, which means they can just see the over ten window here. And o i'm going to go through here and then ultimately, the means that shift the over in window with time, but the ability for them to be anonymous, anonymous and then create something that they can they can go into territories that right now the the mean industrial complex touch and then they push you through.

I had this idea about how there is a lot of delegation of mainstream media at the moment. You know, mainstream media is dying and uh, no one really cares about IT anymore. And it's all about independent media and all about youtube, recasts and stuff like that.

But what you do forget is that there is still a quite a lot of status associated with going on mainstream media because it's a gas resource here, right? There is an unlimited number of youtube videos that everybody can upload. There's no state prestige associated with uploading a youtube video, getting lots of sub ribes or getting lots of plays or having lot of followers on tiktok, whatever.

But anyone that got an iphone can work twitter or work tiktok or work youtube, but there's only two hundred doctor phil gas pia, right? So because it's inherently a as resource, there is still value and prestige associated with IT because of the selection effect or you've had to be preselected like the fucking and hunger games, right? So I think that something that probably not been Priced in is first the that general a scars results, prestige associated with still associated with mainstream media because it's a limited results.

And secondly, at the huge swath of boomer parents and people who aren't chronically online to see doctor fell in all of midnight america, you know, that whole day time TV thing, the loose woman thing, like they still move culture. They just don't move culture in a way that we care about at the moment. Um this is really interesting. Just a side point is really interesting, uh, is a liberty mutual or someone that is bank in amErica and they're playing IT really well. It's like we can't stop you from becoming your parents, but we might be able to help you invest and save.

And all of the adverts are about like a Younger people then should be complaining about these particular problems, complaining about problems that are beyond age, like someone who's um parking of like two parking spaces and they're like shaking the fist kind of like their parents would do or someone that's cutting the head too early in the morning or something like complaining about things that parents might not want complaining about but they are too Young for IT. And the point is like you're going to grow into complaining about the complaints. Your god.

So let's say the liberty mutual or something they're using the mean of OK boomer as almost self deprecating for us all the future project ourselves out into that. But yeah mainstream media scare resource. What do you think?

And I think there's a little bit of a lot of pollution that exit as well in the sense. Yet it's a scarce resource. IT still has a shadow of its form of self. Like even if I see a seven year old boxer, I know who that guy used to be and can still, even if, even if he's like, I could beat him up now, he still has that shadow of his form itself. So I think it's at that. This trip when I did the fox news thing for the canon cocaine phone, which followed, like the most serious news story, is that IT was me, and i'm down with sliders on my feet and like a blazer here, checked about that, yeah. And that even though they probably got way less views than this or anything else that I done, was treated so differently because of the fact that was main.

Yeah, there's this, an ID called conceptual inertia, which is that IT takes a long time for ideas to change, even if the science does. Uh, I spoke to this um is like A A A science historian and he was talking about the development of science and then belief over time. Suffin stance when you get the like, the geocentric is opposed to the geocentric view of the solar system that is not the earth to the center, it's the sun to the center.

And when that happened, even though IT was after a while, first off I was heroically then IT was exploratory than IT was proven, but tunes and tons of the populist just hadn't come along for the ride. Ideas die one generation at a time, and IT takes a good junker time for people to catch up. And it's kind of the same with mainstream media, right? Not only that, still people around the hold main media even I do to some degree see person on the for that I um so not only is there still people around that are living that, but also even once they're gone, the echo of what they valued is still valued. And IT takes a little bit time for this stuff to go away.

On that point, though, of ideas die one generation at a time. How do you is there any way to speed that up as well? Because because technology is changing so much faster and faster.

One, an idea as holocaust.

Like how do you deal with like GPT three, GPT four and people being able to catch up with how I don't think.

I don't think that is a solution for IT, mate. I think that humans run at the speed that they run out. I think he can over clock humans in the same way to over clock technology. You just playing this game and we're going to move along ah and and what you end up with if you try to do IT too quickly is you end up with fire housing, which is the problem of overloading people with information, isn't that they start to believe one narrative increasing me more frequently.

They begin to distrust all narratives overall because they just can't get the first IT was this thing and then it's this thing cove IT, everybody during, almost everybody during cove IT, almost everybody during the last election, almost everybody during fucking israel. How as well, which you are not talking about, like that is it's this thing. I know it's not it's actually this thing IT wasn't them did IT and then actually, yeah, it's those and no, it's not your tactic or your story was wrong. And what people end up doing is just saying, I check out so the answer .

i've had for this is if you look at something like David dutchy's ginning of infinity, which I thinks an amazing idea about the meme, is tough. The problem that exists, and we spoke about that before, where five years ago you crunch your former self.

But the what would you probably have set that up, maybe doing five months rather than five years to realize those mistakes? Was thinking, five years from nine when a crate form me, what are those things? yes.

So is almost this simple expression I developed, which is like, everything is wrong, is the first bit fair. And you just assume every belief that I hold is wrong. Everything georgian, Chris said, to some extent, is wrong. Anything that defies the laws of physics is wrong. Be, we will look back at .

IT five to ten years.

Opinions loosely held. yeah. But the problem with that is that just opens up this vote x of like, where do that? What do I do that the floors gone like you're just in this spinning infinite recon more, and you don't you don't know what is what.

And people would prefer to have strong beliefs, then just complete nyalong m in the complete everything's wrong. So the conclusion I have with that is like, everything's wrong, but there are a Better or worse ideas. So constantly looking other, as I put this new idea of my head, I can have a place older there.

And I I like IT. And IT was a Better than the previous idea that I had. And then you constantly playing this infinite game of stacking up knowledge and stacking up of knowledge, but always realizing, because what will happen is you will get the new idea. And you think, no ideas, right?

How many times of me you developed some new morning routine I completely addicted to like this? This is the answer. I found the answer. And then a couple of month later.

I wasn't the answer. The Linda effect works so far well with that. If if a person sends you about this new APP, new meditation habit, new X, Y, Z ad been doing IT once, you'd do IT for six months, let's check, because then it's .

serious alga forty. The reason that he doesn't use anything other than never note is he refuses to software that's not ten years older older older like a swiping around for ten years. It's basically the exact same as what you're talking about. The Louis Perry taught me yesterday this great quote, uh, tradition of the experiments .

that worked yet yet that's the thing that the thing that people often defending was once the replacing thing. Yes.

yes, yes, yes, yes. Because of unless it's been around fucking forever, like how many things are automatically just like unmovable unmoving from money first ever happened. What's this trojan horses to avoid thing?

So it's having a phone call with a good friend of mine. His business is he's doing very, very well. And this says to me goes, i've stopped listening to all business podcasts I like pulled on. I like your business is doing really, really well.

And but you've also stopped like consuming new information business because yeah, I just watch nfl stuff mih I am might get midi mean right? Yeah and as like wise that we goes, what the problem was particularly like the stuff that isn't just like Linda business content, like new ideas, this this industry is popping off that he would just get shiny objects ndr me. yeah.

And the critique of that light self improvement space of how can you watch football or how can you do that, is the problem with him, with the business podcast, is that IT was like trojan content, or pyro k po n like a pierre Victory. IT was a trojan content in the sense that he felt IT was good for him, but he was actually harming him. And i'd say that is often a lot worse than the things that you know are going to harm you. So I if you eat a take away and you know it's bad for you, I think that you not for the next day, yeah, that's not as bad as thinking something in's healthy, a trojan horse getting in, and it's actually .

really bad for you. How was the business podcast just sticking into? They were trojan horses .

a bit more in the sense that he has a business that's working really well and he just has to exploit and focus and work hard. Where is when they are going? Does this new A I thing that's popping often people are getting funding here or this guys exited his business for A, B, C, and he's to be in at half the time.

So we just get envious he'd get shiny objects in drome verses just put on the football is like, switch to brain off. Know what I need to do and you can see these trojan horses that exist everywhere. So like you could have, I called that a rogen pay rise where you can get this incredible job, that not not incredible job, or a job I had.

This happens to me where a job comes along and after double salary, but you stop learning as a result. And on the one hand, yeah, you've got this thing that feels like you've made progress. But actually on a long enough time horizon, it's gona massively reduce your potential cause you're no longer learning. I think these trojan horses everywhere.

a long commute would probably be one of those. Um we've been talking a lot about a hidden observable metrics and a really great observable metrics. Salary in a really great hidden one is commit links.

You know the delegation of your energy to do things when you get home, the quality of your relationships and your friendships, the the amount of time that you have to be able to learn new things. And yeah, you can trade in your ability to upgrade yourself for a Better salary. But you're write over a long of time horizon.

What was that? That was going to give you more happiness, satisfaction, even salary in the end, presumable going to be your skills and the rapidity of you to be able to upgrade dom. So yeah, that's very interesting. Have you noticed in your life any uh, trojan horses that you've let snake.

I'd say certain bits of content. I find i'm a lot more specific with my my information diet now. So even stuff of trying. I used to try and keep on top of the world's cutting events. And then because I felt like I needed to be responsible to, and I needed to be on top of things, and I realized that a, the current thing would just disappear. This is contain new current .

thing that disappear. S P.

by the time, by the time it's on twitter, it's like the peak stock Price is, you know I mean, by the time it's every time the bit is as big as it's going to get.

So avoiding um constantly keeping on top of all the world cutting consent at which I used to think like I was being informed citizen because people would use the term a route about this, people would use the term ignorance is bliss and I go, you know you're in this like nature an upside down society where people using blisses a shaming mechanism because I think I realize this where it's something like I think this like five hundred million tweet uploaded per day, this five hundred hours of content upload to youtube per minute. And I think some sixty seven million people die a year, right? So we're all in the ignorance guta, but it's like some of us, are we looking at the stars?

And I think you have to be so specific with that information, diet, cause by definite, you cannot consume all the world's information. So I used to have my you know this, I used to have my twitter trending topics to angola. So I just keep up to date like the ango so based eat on twitter, you'd have the trending topics in your region and IT would be like I get distracted by all these complex issues and I just feel like shit after IT is like trojan content yeah so I just stopped dated its angular and .

no live now unfortunately for me because it's it's done IT the way that as you as you realized, you can't hack IT with angola. I'm still in the U. K. Based on twitter, which means that at least twice a week at the moment Chris Williamson trends Chris willson M P of course, the unfortunately named labor, I think it's darby sha that is a part of very antisemitic which means given the current geopolitical climate is a bad time to be a Christal illian son at the moment. But I always used to think whether or not, uh, he would look and see his name trending but did not be him and think like what's my love island dollar or he go on this time fucking and I is gone another reality T V show i've got and doing this live show with James Smith in dubai in a couple of months time, next month actually and I wondered, given what Chris Williamson has been talking about is very like pro middleston a talking point, whether this going to be A A huge welcome party for me as I step off the plane at D X P. Airport, and how disappointed they will be when this Chris Williams strides off the plane.

A reality so far, which has been A S O warfare between you to everybody else watching. This is just NPC in the simulation.

That is that you ever watched the one with jet, that film. Now it's like he in this other universe, he's able to move between like three hundred and fifty universo, whatever. And there's a version of you in each of them.

And if you kill yourself, the power of all of you get shared between you. So this guy tries to become the one this evil gently around, killing all of the other jet leaves and all of the other different universes. And that's kind of the S.

C O battle between me and Chris Williams and db. sh. A M. P. At the moment.

Out the IT out because I was be an infinite or text that with the information diet, how I recommend, and people think this takes way long and than that is. But I do warm people that you will stare deeply into the abyss, and I deeply back into you. Youtube, they should remove this.

But youtube has this button where you can see your history. And I I went through a quote on that. I was like, but I just go through the last hundred videos that I watch, IT takes five, five years to do.

And I just rank them in terms of regret, neutral. And I glad I watch that. And seventy two percent of the content I watched I book IT under regret. So that's an example .

of trojan content. Well, the post content clarity thing was an idea that I came up with to try to help me.

It's exactly that, just like less statistical while you are watching something, it's almost always compelling even if it's bullshit for you are making you feel IT worse because if IT wasn't compelling, you would be watching something that was it's like the mean evolution of the mister beast countdown to the one billion dollars tt that is going to spend time. I know whatever, right? Like that's the most compelling piece of content.

So even stuff that you don't like is compelling. In the moment or so, you would have switch and watch something more compelling. But it's only after the it's like your post coytmore pillow talk with yourself after you've done a session on youtube, what you get to say, okay.

And how did that stuff make me feel like, do I want to ring my friends, I want to go outside? Do I feel like the world is against me or for me? Do I feel like I can go achieve things? Do I feel more educated, more wise, more in tune with myself? Or do I feel the opposite? And a lot of the time, I think the things that you watch olympics, hy jacking and compelling, but the after effect like to come down the content come down is so strong that are if you were able to future project yourself forward and realize what's the hang over that i'm going to get out the content come down, i'm going to get from this the post content clarity um yeah that the pillow talk you help with yourself actually would remind you that it's not worth IT and youtube actually is a platform for this is kind of useful because is a few options you can put in.

Don't recommend channel. Um if you just see something on your home screen, you can just press the three three dots and say they don't recommend channel. You'll never see that channel again unless you search for IT, right?

You'll never just randomly appear on your feet, which is phenomenal. So I think that if you were talking about crafting in shaping the information landscape that we're a part of, and it's all as teri and fucked in like philos philosophical and stuff. But from a tactical perspective like that, one thing, if people use twitter on desk top, which I do, I don't have the APP on my phone, very really user on my phone.

Tweet x which may now be called tweet um is a way that you can see the most popular tweet from people. But it's a gool pro extension that when you're on your homework reen IT actually sits over the top of the trending news. So it's a hide trending news. So you can put yourself in angola where you can but he doesn't work, but you can use tweets or tweet and the google chrome mic extension will hide that and replace IT with like top tweet from one of the people that follow.

I think we've probably got about five years left of this algorithm are of trying to get you to stay on platform as long as part because as soon as more and more A I tls come on and then you begin to have these dynamic conversations of how you want to feel based on these algorithms. Ms, I think we'll look back at this is a very, very weird time in history .

when most contempts created by humans is opposed to robots.

No, in the sense that that to some extent, but more importantly, like for example, you see the difference when you go from youtube to youtube premium, and you can skip certain things and you can downa things.

Why can't I just customize biographical? Why can't I have A K algorithms in the week, and then the cocaine algorithm on saturday night? This is this kind of static algorithm, because the problem with the algorithms I actually realized when I was doing that, youtube, bored at the best.

Youtube is amazing when you use IT for search. And it's such a high agency thing there where you're sitting there are thinking and going over. I want to learn about X, I want to do A B, C, and you search IT. This is the explore page when it's just fundamentally solo agency because by definition, is trained on your past data. So it's keeping you stuck in the past war is when you're actually searching on youtube for topics you actually breaking out of the past and creating a new dataset.

this multiple use. So I realized this uber does this very well actually um where at different times of the day I take different journeys. So if it's first in the morning, it'll know that I tend to want to go to the gym, if it's the little of the day that a couple of restaurants I typically go to, if it's on wednesday at this time, IT knows that I usually going get appointment at this place.

So it's a haircut or it's whatever. And IT knows that I go from certain places to other places. Very well done, right? But that's because there's multiple use, multiple periods of the day. Youtube hasn't yet realized that I only watch long form documentaries about like the indepth trend welfare strategies of world war one on the evening time, like a night fall asleep.

So I like listen to, like some can bourne documentary, or like some long documentary or whatever, like some eleven part of psychoanalysis of hit lab that, I mean balls deeping at the moment, right? That only happens on the evening time, but that means that IT resurfaces IT to me during the day. So yeah, there's multiple use at multiple times.

And you know like you can go from dark mode to light mode. It's like, do I want to go from learning mode to entertainment mode? But I don't think that that that doesn't seem to be just because what the platforms always want you to be in is click on mode, right? They don't want you to have agency over what IT is.

They just want maximized time on site that outsources. Don't forget, especially youtube, that algo is a black box. If you were to go to youtube, the engineers and say, tell us what you're doing, show us the algorithm yeah what do you think we know? You think we know what our algorithm does? We set IT like two fucking reward functions, like time on site, click through that's IT and then just let IT run is just this recursive nightmare where everyone the sense toward the u fc .

knockout completion all the way .

down the stack yet yeah what's the forgetting paradox?

So thanks to your some Harris podcast. I started going more and more down a mindfulness rabbit hole.

One, two people did those with someone yeah said.

it's so good. And within that, he has this few things that I had out the back of IT that then create the forgetting paradox, which is, you start to observe your thoughts and some presents. This idea, I think of a candle.

What are you? That candle? No, of course i'm not. That candle is like, why do you therefore identify of every of the? And then he has this scenario.

It's like, think of all basically wait for the next four to appear in your head and try and predicted as it's happen. Like just trying to observe IT as it's happening. Sorry, my mom was, so what is so neat this? My one was, I SAT there.

And from nowhere, when I realize I can control my own toys, IT was just, I N Robin cutting in on the left link, like this former football play who retired at eight years. And I like, is almost like a dream stay. And I was like, that's why called the waking up right? As that's fantastic. And the thing that I hadn't heard sam talk about, that I realized off the back of was I ask you this question now, how many thoughts I clear sentence thoughts do you remember for me yesterday?

But if you almost none.

can you think of any I A sentence?

One over dinner that I spoke to alex about who's debating venture pero today, but I didn't say to him, but he was talking.

So you remember one thought from yesterday, we're about the David zero, right? Yeah OK. So you have ten thousand to seventy thousand thoughts today, a new captured one.

Anyone listen to home, pause IT and just go. How many thoughts do I remember from me at, like, clear sentencing is not, I feel hungry or whatever, clear sentences. So from a twenty four, our window, kind of like twitter or tiktok, the minds thoughts completely disappear.

And it's quite a useful tool that then one of a food appears. You just go h this is gonna disappear tomorrow you and you realized the forgetting paradoxes. And this is not just that, the individual psychological level, it's at the general societal level of wheat.

Forget how many things we forget, because by definition, we ve forgotten them. And if we hadn't forgotten them, therefore, we would have remembred the same way. You had ten to seventy thousand yesterday, and you remembered one, but you don't remember, you don't even realize how many thoughts you forgot, because by definition, you completely forgot them. And you see this with like trending topics as well where IT comes. And then so I know when back in on .

the left way.

yeah, yeah, you're very good at. This is one thing I changed my mind upon as a result. This like there's a probably whole wave of guys listen to your podcast who are like just ghost instagram guys.

They don't really post the social media. But one of the the second, third consequences, you don't capture much of your life. And i'm sitting here out to twenty nine out.

I've always avoid photos and videos because I don't want to be seen as that they guy on instagram. But I think something you're very good as caption content. And as I older, you realized how important that is because you have fuck.

but you decoupled. I realize this too the coming from like whatever I fucker I come, the violent background um which is um the problem of that is I associated taking photos with posting on social media and being gosh right I did lunch on sunday from the plane a with Douglas married and this nice fucking a restaurant somewhere. I had cro cks on a and stock was in a full suit.

We had lunch and we IT was four hours and we got to have this great conversation. I know that I wanted remember this, that I would forget IT in any case, but I want to properly remember this. But you like, when do you take a photo coming? You let to take a photo, but hang in a second.

No, like this will, when that resurfaces on my memories or whatever, i'm not taking a photo to post on social media, but because most people only take photos so that they can then post on social media, I associated taking photos and remembering my life with being a van. Instagram dea, not the same. We need to, like, make photos great.

Again, taking photos from thinking that you are creating content right or being not sauce stic or doing this to to and that even worse, if you're a content creator, right if you're someone that posting stuff on the internet, you like, ah here we go again like Better fucked and switch the work face on but if it's not like that, so I can just take a thought to be with my friend. But I wonder about how how much people think about the the focus on the thoughts that arrive, how much they they consider what they are going through right now to be unbelievably important. You forget how many things you've forgotten, because you ve forgotten how much you forgotten.

This has always been a justification for me to get people to fourth thoughts into words, either spoken, written, even art in some regards. But I think it's best to do IT in actual words because I said this million times on the show. But when have thought it's like a cloud, right? Like trying to hold smoke.

It's like this White by a femoral kind of like it's a smell. It's like this ambience that you've gotten you like. It's yeah I kind of know what that is. So okay, tell me, I tell me what that idea is. And then you try and freeze IT down into words and you go, I actually don't have any idea about this. And I remember before I had the podcast, I after I had started thinking about things more seriously, but before I had an outlet that caused me to be rigorous, ous and highly scrutiny, scrutinised heavily while I was thinking about, I had ideas that I didn't know.

I had ideas that I didn't know, right? This sense, but i'd never forced IT into to take form and IT concrete tides this thing not why writing such a good tactic for they are having conversation to simple you care about you know the strategy of um recording a podcast with a friend that you're never going to publish like thirty minutes once per week. Put the voice recorder on if you don't want to be a content creator you just can't be bothered. You're not confident enough yeah sit down with a friend, press record, have a conversation about whatever you want but it's focus its rigorous ous so .

on that as a few things says. So one does this idea are still from blog, which I called IT, the blog transformer, which is when you wanting to become creative, he tries to understand everything from a written perspective. Then from a algorithm, you'll create an algorithm of the same piece. Then you'll speak IT out loud, then you'll draw y IT on a White board, like what disney business plan map.

And when you transform IT from four to words to written to visual drawing, you actually the action of transforming is where the creativity begins to occur, or the clarity 啊， on this specific point now, I think relating to the forgetting paradox that begins to exist as a result is or we've particularly going back lip in background to C, B, T, that we spoke about the begin. This is like such midwest simple share. But it's so good like we talked, spoke about the the C, B, T, trying at the beginning.

The next thing that they get you to do is so let's say you have like a recurring for of I am a fucking loser I something really dark, the natural thing like the instagram views like, no, you believe you said, like pump your chest up. So in C, B, T, what we'll get you to do is we will just write down the food that you have and the ability to move IT from mine to paper, and you just kind of look at IT. And then the next thing, which is great, what they do is rather than just like trying to fight that for which then kind of creates balloons IT more and more and more because you're repressing IT.

It's like what's five five bits of evidence to support that? All I blog touch of all my friends. I've not been to the german in weeks.

I, I, I thought i'd be here by twenty five or thirty five. I'm not there. And you write down all these reasons and then you go, you get all the fucking air out, the balloon of that for. And then in C, B, T, IT just goes, okay, what's all the evidence that you haven't considered is that will, well, when I go to X, Y, Z party, people are so happy to see me. And then at the end, come like the jury, the foreign inst use goal based on all the evidence I have. Now what's some more useful potential for on the specific point? If you heard of true a from direct servers, which is so good, which is this idea of um not true but useful yeah i've been playing with something similar.

which is a figuratively true, but literally false and literally true, but figuratively false.

We had that job about determinism, right? I think determinism potentially true, but harmful. yeah. And a good information. What I realized now for the determinism debate, just say I completely agree with you guys unfortunate i'm just one hundred percent determined to believe free will is true yeah and i'm just just a determined, I can't change you but a good example that serves has there is yet useful, not true, but useful belief and essentially anything outside of physical reality. To some extent I can fall in that of, they might not be true, but what's useful, and we all the thiry, you can just analyze both foreign inst and then come to .

your on conclusion, you the figuratively true, but literally falls, literally true, but figure timely false, great. So pocket pines can throw that ques, literally false, figuratively good to stay clear with the fucking pokemon. Religions throughout time looked at pigs, uh, as a uniquely sort of morally dirty animals.

Uh, literally false, but figuratively the flesh does Carry a higher pathogen load typically than other animals like for like. So let's not eat them. good. The reverse, literally true, true. But figure timely false of functionally useless would be a different way to put IT belief that free world doesn't exist.

Okay, right that but everyone seems to say, all the smart people seem to say that that's the case and all of the people that seem to have some counter argument to IT. It's all like mexico, brazilian judge zu, whether they actually change what freewill means, like danny, I kind of does this. You just sort of kicks the car down the road.

All of the like compatible ism stuff seems to kind of kick the hand down the road. But I spiral A X club manager into a two week depression because I sent him forty five minutes of some Harris on joe rogan red pilum about freewill. He didn't leave the house for two weeks because I like if i've gone a free well fucking that's fuck in information hazard.

I don't need to know about that. I definitely don't need to believe that I don't put stock in believing IT. So I guess it's a bit of slippery slope if the only things that you believe, the functionally, the things that are beneficial to you because you can not end .

up actually know because seal to key were not beneficial uses, because self deluding yourself to something that so grandstanding and harmful isn't useful. It's anything that's fundamentally useful to you and the people around you.

What's the new ideas that sound crazy but will be Normal tend to twenty years from now?

yeah. So obviously last time we had what is ignored by the media, but will be study by historians. And what ideas sound crazy today, but will be, will look back and go, oh, shit.

I like the winter on the internet comes along and it's like everyone was marking IT and boom with here. Now I have a list of these, so one which is my greatest, me, i've always created. So going back to cyber, that is kind of a ugly industry.

The one industry that might be ugly than siber is too. So one is pluming industry. And as a result, the so many entrepreneurs crank which bands or rings like trackers, glucose per super sexy.

Crying a smart toiler like the a the total addressing market is huge. Yeah, you have a smart toiler and the me I create was like the toilet speaking to you, which is like, good news you hydrated. Bad news, you got the media right.

And a smart toilet could feasibly eradicate ate all S, T, S. And S, D S like that. You could the amount of data that's in passengers yeah the exist. But nobody wants to try to start because it's a bit I Q right.

Same when another similar things to this， which I don't like that loud, but we going to have to the mind geek, e porn company, the own, every single pole site you can think of had the biggest technological monopoly of all time. But nobody spoke about IT. There was no government bodies getting involved because they do not want to touch IT.

IT was iki. yeah. And I think a lot of these ideas are potentially ici. Another one I think about is with A I coming along right now, all my single friends complain dating apps that they hate the swiping, they like the dates, but they hate the swiping.

When dating apps came along IT was IT was seen as the equitius thing, people that people mocked IT. But now like it's something fifty percent of people meet the potential partner online and the everything else has gone through the floor in terms of how they the only one that's gone up is restaurant and bar. So you see this.

So the only one that goes up in that chart of how did you meet outside the dating apps? Because dating apps is at the whole market, market rison software reading the world is restaurants and bars. And i'm convinced that bullshit, i'm convinced these people met on dating apps.

I don't want to say that they met on dating apps because there is a huge basket of those. So dating up at the whole market. And I think with A I coming along, it's going to be so obvious where IT moves to a more match making model where you're not swiping based on your data sets and then you're getting .

candidates dot A I. Um i'm pretty sure that this is like algo match make its a combination .

of I think personal.

individual, actual, functional, human and A I match making keeper is for people who want long term relationships. And yeah they are trying to use data sets to find compatibility between people. He makes sense, right? Like the mt. Dating APP dating up.

This is manually swiping. I'm judging IT purely off looks and then you remember them and it's completely different and they do not look that and they have lied and it's a completely broken system.

Yeah, it's looking at what will be accepted as A A applausive future technology. I certainly don't think I know that you've been on this for a while. You you were pretty sure that sudan's mity on the internet would become more widely accepted. I still don't think that that's going to be the case. Where do you set on that?

Now i've got a wead opinion. This one I could be so Better.

Man, all these, all of other opinions have been so.

no. So for, uh, all of these opinions, I think ultimately the higher risk in right if IT a lot of the million to fail because by definition, if they sound wear today because of fucking, we're other wrong, right? But I do think as soon as these thing, these virtual influencers come along and I think you have the sudden emi combine with the virtual influencer, because if you look at traditional media, reality T V was really late, only came along, and like the nineties, like as I came along.

But the social media is always been reality T V. There's no James bombed in social media. There's no spider man in social media, there's no superman, there's no bad man of these characters with I P that begins to exist. So I do think that's where that this is a guy we spoke by and called the cultural tute on twitter and he's just gone boom. Um so I do think that got potential, but yeah, I don't think it's necessarily as big the super limit you think hasn't taken off yet.

But is that because IT won't take off yet or because it's had certain technological restrictions? I'd say the other one which you you repel me on this so mean you on a flight at three years ago inside the act studio and Chris like this is very mind. Chris put us at that point we're on a beach after that flight and he goes, if I can get things two hundred thousand subscribers, I think i'll be happy um and you say to me on that fly or you got our face masks on you go i'm thinking of working of a speaking coach and I was like, as a friend, as I do, I say something here because I don't think this is the right move. In my defense, I was concerned that you'd go the full politician.

They would still ized any character .

I had when politicians speak like this. And I just immediately is horsey theory like you, you're so carmaker IT becomes on cash, and I concerned that would happen to you and I told you and you have ignored me like three years later, i'm listening to that rogan podcast and he said the way you pronounce words, if he was running for president, he was a vote, right? And I texted you go in one i'm sorry as wrong too. Can I get an interview right?

Everyone inside of the speech, too.

So I do wonder whether Chris ma will become the new fitness. So the same way instagram made people concerned more about how they look, voice memos, podcasts, recorded zoom calls, remote people hearing themselves back will begin to become a bigger .

and bigger thing. Yeah, that's a very good point, definitely being more surveilLance, your delivery right in a way that you didn't do previously. Um have we seen people take writing classes so they can do Better facebook status? I'm not sure um but no but even like going .

back to what we said early of race, becoming a me and then people at least things yeah whether the'd be more like be doing exactly what did probably not but they'll be I I think I will become an area that people a lot more mindful of the same way people who work out aren't nessy paying for A P. T.

Yeah, that's true. The gap in the game with something I think I introduced you to as well. This idea that there are two ways to live, either comparing yourself to where you want to be, your comparing yourself to where you were.

And one of them is like running toward the horizon, which is every step that you move forward, you are inevitably going to push the desire that you have one step further away from yourself. Morgan household is, quote about the best way to win the game is to stop moving the fucking goal posts. And I had this conversation with big dad dozer an over the weekend and said, every time that you achieve something, what you're doing is positing a new minimum bar, which you have to get over, right? fantastic.

I ve just done this money plays, or made this piece of art that sold for a particular amount of money, or a, how exciting. And almost immediately there is this sort of like post coital fucking realization 的， oh my god, that's the new bar for my best performance. That's really high. That means I now need to be even Better at my next thing. And when someone recently won the largest lottery in history, one billion dollar lottery y, someone just won that from a life trajectory perspective, that potentially one of the most disastrous things that you could have happened to, because how are you ever going to have a Better day than the day you woke up and found out the one a billion dollars? It's the argument is a slow success strategy would be to purpose, li, try and drag out the winds that you have.

So for a tactical .

way that you could do, this would actually be, let's say, that you start to accumulate more wealth, financial freedom and stuff like that, and you can afford your absolute dream car. But instead of buying the absolute dream car, you buy one of the dream cars that kind of on route to that one IT was the the fifty percent or the seventy five percent car that goes in between because you'll still take a good bit of pleasure from that one and you'll have something to look forward to that you know is within your control and you're not then looking for the o'clock hundred and fifty percent dream car, right? The hello, i'm buying yachts and buying boats and all these other stuff. So I think and I said this to down, you know somebody who you know winning um poker games and stuff is large influxes of cash in kind of out of nowhere and he seem to agree that um IT expertise, your ability to just like play the hedonic adaptation game but IT over clocks, th Epace a t w hich y ou h ave a ccess t o I T a nd i t's d angerous s o y et s low s uccess s trategy a s a c ounter t o t he g ap i n t he g ame, sort of game that we play with each other in this whole .

on a adaptation thing and I do it's one of those things that have theory than reality like can you actually slow yourself down once that dopamine kicks in? That takes a lot of wisdom, right?

Tacks a hell of a lot of restraint. Yeah I I mean, I I don't know and like what are you going to do? Like say, oh, no, I don't want that billion dollars from the lottery, please but you know, even with that, okay, can I get someone to set up some sort of fund or trust that like grip feeds this to me or invest IT in a particular way? Or I don't know, just placing in trying to place yourself worth in different ways, different different locations.

But I mean, the gain again is one of the most important ideas that I keep forgetting about. Like a ben Hardy book from three years ago, he came on the show to talk about. And it's really great every time that I find myself getting too deep into dopamine.

Chris, um we should talk about that. We should talk about the difference between dopamine George and satan in George and then also probably caught his old George as well. Um but we both feel this and I think a lot of people do that.

You just live in this sort of next task, next achievement over clock hostel grind culture. I will get my pleasure from my accomplishments. As opposed to the one that actually had been mostly filling, which is I spend time with my friends lying in the park under a tree, like eating some snacks that somebody brought along, or something like that, the most satoh inside of them. I think.

I think the gap in the game, is that just a bad mean for I abundance and scarce. Y E minds, abundance, scarce. Y kind. Hi, jack.

S A little bit by a lot woo, where the big thing about the gap in the again, so you always have three things you have who you are now this, what can future idealize projective version, where you ve trillion an iron, everything's going well and everybody loves you like that gap? No, again, no matter much you move up, just grows its infinite is you have a third day, which is where you start. So the the game is measuring yourself constantly from where you and the gap is measuring yourself to this infinite ideal.

But the beauty to of you that means a nice concept, right? But that's one of those, the forgetting paradol. You can learn that and then IT disapearance years now. But going back to like resting serious face or resting smile face, the beautiful thing about the gap of the gain is you can only, you can only exist in one of the two states that once that's what what I looked about that concept is, you're even in the gap or you .

even in the game. So IT is constantly.

throughout the day, the resting serious face, resting mile. It's a simple.

rather able yeah what do you thinks the most useful emotional state?

Oh yeah. So this is A A nee store experiment, but I will give you to the audience. So the inspiration for this, for experiment was, you ever heard that kind of brow bar debate of, you have the worlds best athletes across every hundred top sport, which one is the technical best athlete in the sense that you take baseball player football, L A N F L M M A and they're all do the other one thousand nine hundred nine sports who would rank the highest and big like the debate about great and um I was like a interesting idea I realized I lay that bed and again, I am Robin's just crow like cutting on the left and that this thought pops in my head and what would be the if you applied up for emotions, what would be the most useful emotional states you create this look in olympics of like happiness, sadness, joy, fear, envy sa etta and then you look to a hundred different life eventually could be in doing a podcast of you go for a bike ride yeah, getting a starbucks.

getting fired from my job. What's the outcome? The are optimizing for here, most useful.

What useful? Probably achieving the outcome that you would would have like upon reflection, right? OK is where i'd probably described that, but i'd probably to think about that more, but less.

You have all those situations are married to funeral, to losing job, to first day at job, and you have looked to all the different emotions you could have. Like which one would perform the best on average? And I realized I go probably calmness if you could.

Like it's not even like the sports debate where it's like up for debate. I go I think cannas just is top for pretty much the wall or if not, it's is in the champion's league places in that like top four and to but then I okay, let to steal my myself. I was sleep in night, so I was like, okay, well, let's see examples of fire breaks on the building.

What do you want to be calm would be the crisis of and is like we wanna be slightly you won't want to be lazy. You probably want to be calm. I assume i'm not fine.

And we have bulshed IT jobs, right? Like we don't do serious jobs. But when you try to people who have proper jobs, the best guy is the ones that are common of pressure. So I think IT IT kills that.

And in the second criticism, if he was to steal money, IT as well would be, well, that says you, that may work for neutral events or toxic events or things where has to go well, but I say your wedding day, you want to be calm. And I like past public, local criticism, but then I think, think about IT. And when have you speak for about the wedding day? They always say, I was great, but I just wish I soaked IT in more.

I wish I could slow down time a bit more. And I don't think anything slows down time, quite like calmness. And for any criticism you do have where you wouldn't to be calm, the beautiful thing about common is you can come, is such a base state that you can then ramp up any emotional top of, but you can't do the reverse.

Really hard to go from anger to, like peak calmness. yeah. So I just looked at and go that wins the debate and then I fail to sleep on night coming come .

doubles asked me yesterday, what? Like I aim foreign life and I used to work peace, uh, which sound so cooked, like, in retrospect CT IT just sound so lame. Especially I am talking to this, you know, like firebrand, fucking like cultural, commented a guy like says things that people don't like in all the rest of IT.

But IT is true that like if the Price of your sanity you shouldn't pay IT, I would have pretty much whatever IT is. There's almost nothing that's worth that because ultimately, without your senator, you can't enjoy any of the things that you're going to get from IT in any case. Ah and I think that largely commonness and peace could probably be interchangeable here but .

to critique was here why I would a listens like yeah that's fucking nice and I might forget that as part to forget products. But like what does that do is like, well, how do I become calm and the answer is that I have fucking fully figured out yeah but I I guess the first step is realizing that is probably the most useful.

the most something to wait for. And again, using the hidden observer able metro ics matrix, like it's one of the most hidden metrics at the texture of your own mind, I will happily work a job with a boss to dig that pays more money, that makes me feel miserable, that causes me to be anxious before I go into work, because I can't see the Price that i'm paying in terms of my lack of piece or commonness, right. But I can see the increase in my bank baLance every month. I'm just trading IT in, trading in that hidden metric from observable one.

You seeing that with blue coast monitors in the sense that people who just eat whatever you and now they have the orange juice and then video game dashboard go terrible, they can begin to piece that together. We unfortunate don't go out to resting like a smile face if there was a way of tracking that throughout the day, and you could turn into a video game of where your facial expressions was sad, I think you'd have a .

lot happier of people. Sweet, yeah. What was that? He told me. And you describe IT really beautifully. IT is the first time that anyone had described the same psychosis that I go through when i'm meditating about. I'm the sort of person that has thoughts about thoughts.

Oh yeah, we will chat about this over dinner. Where is this infinite loop that can exist when you observing you're own mind, you get to the state of no thoughts and then after you've dealt all the iron Robin force, what comes up as I look at me having no thoughts, i'm fucking great and then you end up in .

that is a join yeah you think, oh, wow, i'm the sort of noses that thinks, ow, look at me the sort of person that has no thoughts and then you think, oh my god, i'm so self application i'm the sort of person that makes me for being the sort of person that thinks, wow, i'm sort person oh my god and cycled dom, so funny. Man, so funny what else you go?

We always have chats about a high agency, and I get that a powerful me right now. But i've been my collecting like examples. One of them that came from a mutual friend, David cena, have you heard about James Cameron? I said, this is one, the crazy stories ever, again, all about memes or ideas.

So, you know, James Cameron, the movie director. So he was a truck driver when he was eighteen, and he couldn't afford, he couldn't afford to go to movies, to a movie education of. And he decided, I can't afford that. So I mean, the low wage, you think there is like, okay, it's a reality. Baba B, I like this guy, is so good that he came up the idea of going to the library and everybody who could afford the film degree, when they're handed in the dissertations or their work, they put IT in the library that night. He would just go there, take the pieces like a night, put them in a photocopy machine, photocopy photos, photocopy, and taught himself is whole film degree from scratch, because he could not afford IT as that dies .

a elite story. So good. Wow, that is cool.

Does another one we spoke about a while ago in the high agency library, I told you about the guy that took down silk road. So silk road was the biggest black market, illegal drugs empire. The FBI raft him, the CIA raft him, the D.

A, A. After him. This guy called dread pie Roberts, who turned out to be Russell brick.

And there's a lot about that case to get super political. I want to have that conversation because i'm not educate on IT. But the specific part I found fascinating was the way he got called. So the FBI, with all the resources, best hotel, best spyware in the world, couldn't catch him. He was this one tax inspector who started working on the case and disguise just things, okay, are going google and just searches.

Because what about if I just find the first original post about silk road online, and he finds IT in this bitcoin forum, and what the dread pie robbers did? I see when you, at that zero to one stage of a new company, there was an legal drug market empire. You need to get people in so we create account like going, oh my god, of people seeing this is like, this is the earliest post that exist online.

And he reached out to the foreigners, was like, essentially reverse engineer this alt ID handle what the email address was. And IT was Russell brit to gmail 点 com。 And he was the first guide when mask, and I love that story, like one guy with google has beat the FBI, the C, A, A, the D, A, A, achieving essentially the most wanted man in amErica at the time. I said, similar to James Cameron, right? Like a guy with essentially no resources, combat sively over before.

Have you like speaking of movies? There's a new guy, rich film out. Uh, that's an oddly very similar plot to the gentlemen, but is different account on amazon prime every go much it's guy riche guys fucking in. But if you seen IT turns out Douglas, his friends with him, and do you know that he has created his own like hot slash barbecue slash foot warmer thing.

Do you know about this? right? So in the gentleman, if you see a huge grant toward the end, when he is confronting charly horne and trying to screw over the outside and the kind of SAT under this, I could kind of a nice sort of a indoor, outdoor mesne looking shed type thing, and there's like a fire and a big smoke.

Turns out that guy reti invented that. Like, it's his product, right? This is the ultimate product placement put in. And I think they talk about one of the features that he has in the gentleman.

And then in this most recent one, again, it's few grants playing a very similar sort of role this time is like a rich billionaire like super super dic guy and it's like cuts to the scene and he's explaining how is like reverse seeing a stake on guy rich is custom design think which you can go by. It's super expensive, I think, but can go by on the internet. Such a guy.

I bobek e and i'm sure to come up. And yeah, he just he's just got this product that he's created and pretty sure anyone on rogan that he talked about IT, but yeah, you got this product that he created that is now featured in multi million dollar blockbuster movies in directed by this great guy but yeah, ultimately is just like I was part of the fun al for his chief meme officer, chief meme officer. Yeah, is super expensive. But barbecue, what have you got coming up next? What's the next few months going stuffy?

A few different things. I've got a few S A. I want to publish a few different ideas i'm working on.

Yeah, just I don't actually know how to answer that question. Just join IT. good.

Where should people go to anna? Keep up today with you're reading your writing.

others the stuff. Yeah so best places twitter or x just George on the score, on the score mark time up to the news letter list as well George mac doc or George dash mac dot com. Best got the think about the dash. Yeah, you can find IT all that.

George. I appreciate you. Thank you.