#756 - Destiny - Have We Reached Peak Stupidity?
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Hello, friends, welcome back to the show. My yesterday is destiny is a streamer and a youtube e it's hard to work out what's happening in the world is difficult to determine if what you see or here or read is truthful or trolling ling or a set up so our people actually becoming dma. Or is this a Normal response to confusing time?

Expect to learn what the future of media might look like, why being tribal is so dangerous, whether we have passed peak woke destiny thoughts on the twenty twenty four election, if the rebel movement is dead or alive. What does he thinks about his most recent add diagnosis, his reaction to the internet, timing in on his divorce and much more? I always enjoy speaking to destiny.

He's got interesting insight. He's a guy who is urgently from the left and very reasonable and prepared to debate and understands these positions. And you don't need to agree with of the things that he says, but the fact that he has got a very well thought out base and foundation about why thinks those things I think is quite adorable and IT is always good to hear different perspectives.

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But the only way they can ensure you won't miss them is by hitting subscribe plus IT supports the show. IT makes me very happy indeed. So goal and press follow on spotify or subway, be on apple podcasts. I thank you.

Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there was .

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And one of the rare is the last one I needed for my set, shiny, like the designer hand back of my dreams, one of a kind. Ebay had IT, and now everyone's asking, we get, ea has no more. Just beautiful. Whatever you love, find IT on ebay. Ebay, things .

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But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome destiny.

You just did p.

Morgan, well, I was like .

a live segment from this morning.

China, okay. Yes, I was the first one. They bromine IT was a segment on like the differences between the trump and biden and their sindy basically as bitter sindy to be huge problem in my opposite person like Tommy Lawrence, and is a very much like mainstreet media ion or mainstreet media appearance.

It's like give me your like thirty second plug. Give me your thirty second plug on the next question. And I hate that back afford I drives for crazy.

So wo I mean, that says everything that we're having a discussion about who is the most senile among all of the different politicians that might influence the future?

Yeah what? But at the .

end of the day.

the voters only held themselves to blame.

So that's true, but I guess you can only vote for the people that are there. Now there's a lot of people to vote for.

These are two most part of the ones I think that the system is delivering the people that have the wide to support right now, people they might not be um univerSally liked, but you only have to have a plurality of the support to make IT through. Like people are looking at cheer like I guess like sure, but people might not like like eighty percent people might not like biden or eighty percent of people might not like trump, but those eighty percent of people don't all agree.

And who should run instead? So that's really interesting. I wonder if people could coordinate Better, whether or not you would .

have Better outcomes.

Vice media shutting down, no longer publishing. You seen this.

they shutting down or they're not going to publish articles on that website.

And that's technically what IT is in memo to vice employees. Thus, they see a Bruce s and said that the company will be cutting several hundred jobs in the next week as part of its major restructure. Vice will discontinue publishing content to its own website, and in that will put more emphasis on our social channels as we accelerate our discussions with partners to take our content to where we will be viewed most broadly. What do you think? cool. My guess.

Does anybody read like website stuff from vice? I feel like there are most known for the youtube video content, like the investigative journal stuff. I shouldn't.

The ladies, now, I wish I did, but he was really cool. Remember, he went to china to investigate weaker stuff? Yes, like SHE does a lot of cold stuff there. There are a couple cool things on vice systems. What I seen for video content.

their website is watch. So I I vices one of those things when you do see articles shared is usually like red sharing. You know, White people can't suffer racism or like some some something that seems to be purposefully that almost like rage, trigger people to click on IT.

Sure, but I have definitely enjoyed me some vice, many documentaries, twenty minute, thirty minute in a lunchtime viewing things on youtube. I've seen one. There's a bunch that they do about party culture in the U.

K. About like aging rage of rivers, like people still doing drugs in the fifty, sixty, seventy, like classic Larry, british people OK. So that's good.

But I don't know. I just wonder, you know, you just did pears. Morgan tucker carlson has left his sort of mainstream credentials behind and moved independent peers. Is leaving talk T V.

And going to basically be a full time youtube essentially, although it'll probably be a little bit more advanced than that, I don't know IT just seems like the some interesting movements. Maybe it's also in the video side of things, but you know that was vice is written content and that's being pivoted. What do you think what's the state of modern media landscape everybody thinks in the future?

I don't know, different from a different perspectives as as a content creator. My guess is going to be alternative media is probably a lot more money. Main street media is probably a lot more exposure that you might guess.

Um in terms of are we moving towards a more alternative media landscape? Everybody is consulting native media that's kind of already happening or has already happened. In some ways, mainstream media is kind of integrated itself into alternative media. So people might get all of the forests, the news to facebook or twitter, but that might be coming in the form of headlines for mainstream media. I would definitely say that feels like if we've moved past, especially with tucker cars and leaving IT feels like we've moved past the age of the pond, who you have these like huge, like larger than life figures like the Anderson Cooper, the the talker carlson s the billow riles would join to I .

back you just live IT .

back yeah um well, he tried .

to go to apple and there was some editorial differences. I think that caused issues at apple. And then he'd wanted to bring up some stuff to do with china and that wasn't allowed in. Yeah he ended up basically going full circle back to some whether oddly had more freedom or at least editorial freedom. I think as far as he was concerned now .

um yeah I don't I have no idea with the I think we have huge issues in our media landscape right now. I don't think that necessarily tied into mainstream versus alternative, but I know that that's everybody y's fixed IT .

on what is the what should people be more concerned about them with regards to media landscape epidemic grounding?

Um we live in like completely different worlds, more today than we ever have.

That's probably true every single day that are factual of the world has diverged so much between the different like groups that is becoming unworkable or maybe has already become unworkable such that I think I think IT was finally when the jews h space lasers were clearing out real estate for Opera in hawaii that I realize was like, oh my god, nothing can happen anymore as IT is there where past anything ever happening that just happens. There are going to be no more Normal plane crashes. They're going to be no more diseases.

They're going to be a more vaccine. It's all gonna conspiracy. It's gonna a secret missile attack. It's gonna secret a jewish weapon. It's gonna be a secret bill gates microchip like nothing can happen anywhere without a being part of some grand, narrow grand, which I think .

is really sad. why? why? Like what's the under .

current that driving that is IT just .

a multiplicity ity of different people being able to comment on IT is the fact that free access to information means that everyone has a different perspective on the same story? Is that the fact that there is no centralized a flow of information which is giving someone like the narrative? Somebody said in email .

a while ago that I thought was really interesting. I think that was just his idea. I think he called IT like the magic box idea or something. And basically, I think as humans we become further and further separated from the actual things that are happening with everything that we interact with.

So for instance, um if I do that, all this is example, if you know we like an advocate, right? Yeah like I can see the math happening there. I know exactly IT was happening. You can't lie to me about an advocate OK.

If either calculator, a relatively simple device that only does math, I can see exactly what's going on as the devices become more more complicated and you become less and less aware, what's happening under the hood becomes easier for you to insert more random stuff that you're not aware of. So like nobody thought that an abbot s would track you. Nobody really thought a calculate wood.

But as your phone tracking you, is that listening to every single word you're saying, even with no evidence presented for any these ideas, which will never husband that you're phone to secretly listening to in recording stuff. And but because a lot of people on texians of I tried to rescue, people still think IT. And I think that that example of phones can be blown up to literally everything from corporations to fill injecting cars, from bureaucratic organizations that might just like manage a local level thing to the fda that does, you know, vaccine approval on a nationwide d level from from literally every single thing in our life. Things that we used to look at and kind of understand, things that got so so complicated that I think that people are kind of starting to fill in the blanks very easily and quickly with a lot of other stuff.

There's no real way to like argue against them you know um and you will slot into a stuff that just fits your priors your biases some half remembers truth somewhere or he say, yeah and you just to throw this into the workings because .

because example ever gave you that's a really al original this is some real shit .

right here but no yeah you can see the working. You can see step by step once lay down in front of you. But people weren't given the workings of what was happening in government or in war or in news previously. There was still a degree of oaths to what was happening. So what is IT that's different between one hundred years ago?

And now I think that, ironically enough, the people that are seem to have the biggest problems with liberalism, with, like, freedom of everything I said, the anti institutional people that are like, will we need to bring back religion? And I like there to social vise. I think that they live to sounds ent fAllen to be the biggest victims of, I hate this.

This is works on liberal, like too much liberalism, too much freedom and that there's probably some important guard rails that kind of keep us in track or in check about like how we need to live our life like and in a given like tribe, it's probably good if there's like shame around like eating pop or having an a sexual attraction towards children, or trying to stab and kill somebody, like there are some social code elements that are are that we all kind like to force these things to kind of keep everybody a little bit in line for us today. Because we have so much freedom with the internet, which is the thing that has changed our life more than anything else in the past twenty or thirty years. Nobody wants to talk about that.

They just about its either feminism or its red pill or its space lasers or its biden in the deep state. But the internet has dramatically changed in such a quick peer time period is such a quick time period, right? When I was in great school, elephants didn't really.

Things have changed so much. And now people have the ability to select for their world way more than they ever did. And that is incredibly damaging because there are some amount of friction that is incredibly healthy for the human mind. It's good to be able to step into a room, but look, look at like great school or high school or college, everybody manages to make friends. But it's not because theyll swipe, write on each other to get the perfect match of qualities, because in human spend time together, they learn to ease the friction and they kind of get along with each other.

But now that we have the ability to hyper select for every single fucking thing that we want, IT is, I think it's incredibly damaging the human mind because IT lets you select for too many things that we no longer have to become comparable. Like an example I would use as that like you know, if thirty years ago, if I really wanted to fuck my toasters, i'm probably not gona fuck at that much. I'm probably going to talk about IT that much.

Absolutely not. And I even know if i'd be able to find like like anybody or any com rotta y IT would just be really rapped. But today I got already type in like toaster fucking recommendations and get like the top ten models from like quickest to slowest orgasm, even like toasted that I want to fuck, and now get like a whole world of people that all support my toaster fucking ambitions. And that is funny for the toaster fucking thing. But when we talk about like vaccines or covet or education or the fda or the deep state or inheritor and these things or not, just like really scary and that's the world word, and where you can select for your reality rather than having to deal the reality that might not be as much fun to deal with.

right? So IT allows echo chAmbers to continue to propagate. There is something you've seen this someone explained where emails went, and they basically talked about the lack of development of sub groups that they kind of come together briefly and then sort of fracture off into, I am you remembered like emails, and gotten like there was genuine cemented subgroups. Maybe they existed for five years or something, but they were there, right? There was, I can actually had identity and they had dress, and I had all the rest, this stuff.

But I wonder whether the sort of university of everybody trying to optimize for the same thing, which is really like clicks and attention online no matter who you are, even if you're just like some nomi person that that wants to have like more fans and more friends on instagram, ma, be more popular in school or have a Better snaps, chat streak or whatever, how IT is. I wonder whether there is something about this universal currency of status where everyone eventually has to play that game because there's only a few routes to be able to be successful within that one thing. And the same thing is going to be true of your ability to sense make, like there's only so many different paths that you can have to be able to reach that or to be able to be successful as a fuck newcaster what to be able to be successful and catch attention online.

So I wonder, I wonder how much of this is just people trying to trying to make sense of the world. And instead, what they do is find things that confirm their biases and then just sit and steep in those groups. But for some reason, that doesn't seem to cahews in the same way that he used to.

That I really interested, you said, because I have another theory idea on how society is like, kind of falling apart, but not falling apart, splitting apart. And IT plugged into that perfectly and that I think that people aren't fundamentally different today than they have been for the past hundred thousand years or all humans, we have more, less the same.

So yeah the the biggest thing that I think is changed, there are two things happening right now and that we are becoming more separated than we ever have been and more similar than we ever have been. And the way that I feel like this is working as people are withdrawing into two separate groups that are enforcing within these groups in insane amount of homogeneity. And I think the reason why this is happening because IT feels like our communities have gotten larger and larger and larger and larger and larger.

So for instance, um there might be that maybe thirty or forty years ago, maybe I super identify with the kids in my igher hood, you know, when I was growing up, the people that you hung out with with wherever you could walk to, or when you are old enough ever you could bite to. This is your community. These are the people that you hung out with.

Um you develop ideas, you develop intense, at least for me, like high school rivalries between football teams, between like yeah that like that like community. And then when you get a little bit older, maybe identify as an adult with your neigh's od may be be identify with the city that you're in or political group, your city or sports can, whatever I think that these were that maybe that might might be like older IT might have been like churches or unions that you're in. These are the things that I think people identify with, and they have they enforce a lot of imagination in these groups, which is probably Normal some extent, right? You're going to want people around to be very similar.

That is, hang around with people that the line with who you are.

Yeah, yeah. And I could be an appearance race that could mean ideology, that could be, yeah, could be a billion different things, people on a lot of be religion. But today, what happened is the internet has made IT so that the smaller groups are not really fun to be, and they don't really feel important, they don't feel impacted or meaningful.

So instead, what happens is, is the group that you're belonging to is a larger and larger and larger forcing homogenic on a neighborhood that you live in around from omaha. Braska is a lot different than forcing imaginative on, you know, one hundred and sixty million people in the united states versus the other one hundred million people. So um to draw back to kind of what you are saying earlier is that as these groups become larger and larger, it's harder. I think IT feels like it's harder to have these seven types of subcultures and everything because everybody's part of like this global culture. Now IT is all enforced by um and facilitated by the internet, right?

And then but you also is interesting, you say both becoming more similar and more different yeah .

and that we're getting further proxy different groups are flying away from each other the speed of light yes um but within news groups you have to have a choice of opinion. You have to have an of if you work in a warehouse in alama, you still have to have an opinion on whether not lead Thomas could be in an athlete in college, or whether you, you know, if you work in or live in seattle, you need to have an opinion on aoc, or if you live in L.

A, you need to have an opinion on whether we should be supporting ukrainean or israel. And like this, the huge global culture has extended beyond the nights hood and the church. Is everything to include? Yes, there is a phone.

The number of things that you need to have an opinion, the number things that you're exposed to has increased the level of purity and agreement within the group that you need to be hear to in order to not be auto sized by the group has also increased a little bit.

I think that is I would say that, that's probably like an artifact. So IT feels like you how to be more pure, but it's not really that you have to be more pure. It's just there are so many more issues that you probably have.

There is more ways to get wrong.

So like, yeah, yeah, exactly. So like princess, like twenty years ago, I don't know if they would have been a social group. Enforcement, unlike the type of beer that you're drinking. But after the whatever the trends, bud light stuff was or bud wise of stuff was, that might be part of your group now is not that y've gotten more appear that they demand more rigidity to the ideas and the use to is another more ideas that you have to adherence to, basically. So the year is like they're appear, but it's just more stuff that you have to give about you.

I think budi is a really fascinating little area in the coal mine of sort of modern culture. And I ve had a number conversations about this where when budget happened, IT was a huge big deal. Buddy was almost like a simulacra m for america. So like, see, this is something that used to be pure and and patriotic. And IT was IT was .

truck and eagles. And yes.

yeah of actually actually what's happened walkies have come along and they ve they've a iolaus IT all the rest of IT and then full circle only when was that twelve months ago? Eighteen months? If I wasn't more than two years ago when that happened with diller vane, right, was in the last two years and now you kid rock the guy that shot the fucking and counts with an a fifteen is drinking IT .

on ten thousand and a stock I think like the day after all that broke and I I was obvious just like so stupid right yeah I .

posted those guys on twitter like thanks .

conserved what they .

where did you go from to how ah but yeah and IT just seems to me the speed with which people will film finger away for or against something and then forget the position that they held, soviet tly. I really, really have a huge problem with people that are like so adamant that the thing is true, and then only shortly after that is so adamant that a thing is either no longer true or they don't recognise what they said before without at least going, you know, that is maybe but like weren't the you know like live hard walkies that I thought that they were maybe that was just one malignant marketing campaign that went to or whatever.

Like just show your working, like show you're thinking to take key from where you are way because IT just sounds a lot, a lot like wherever the tide sort of comes in and wherever the tide goes out that you kind of get ripped along with IT. I don't know. It's one of the reasons.

So I am quite skeptical of people who don't cavy at much about what they say if you speak in absolute, and you Better be certain, because my thresh hold to speak with that amount of certainty, that I know that this company is one thing, or I know that this company is another thing. So pretty high. So you either don't know what you're talking about or have done tons of work which would be evident in the .

way that you speak about IT um uh I have lost ideas about this um the first thing the first thing of the a criticism of people in general IT feels like nobody y's capable of having a moderate reaction to anything um i'm going to be honest I saw the but light stuff and the train I thought was crying but like does not a reaction that people can have any more.

It's either the worst fucking thing in the world are is like the most important foundational dead rock part of algeria. L nothing can just be like on, I was kind of domain, I was kind of ground. I of like that has to be zero to one hundred.

So that's really annoying. A second thing is, let's see, changing opinions or people that felt like they had strong opinions about one thing that have changed dramatically. These are two things I talk about my stream a lot about these things. Watching the evolution of my parents beliefs politically has been unreal to me um my dad, my mom and my dad, uh my mom is from cuba, uh so she's a cuban immigrant, very uh pro american people in general, very, very republican.

We all cried when alena cassis back to cuba and bill clinton and hate him him in blaw a um my mom doughty, very patriotic, okay, twenty years and the air force were both to them my dad, when if you join the military in the united states, it's probably true in every country in the world. When you join the military, you get a ton of vaccines, okay? You just open down the line is like twenty shots, you'll even know what you're going to judge.

So they do my dad, head of vacine injury and deltour ID such that he can't really raise his ARM very well like past this level and that he gets like paid disability from the air force from real injury from vaccines okay, despite that, when we grew up you had to get your vaccine. IT was a unnegotiable. My mom would never even think for two seconds that like our children not be vaccinated and would be a second foot um today we've had three family members so far die from covered.

My mom will not get any of the coverage shots and I don't know you trust any vacations are all anymore um so the evolution of her belief on that has been crazy. I show this a lot of republicans that of all of the same path, the evolution of the treatment of russia. When I grew, I heard all about the check comms chinese communists heard all about, you know, red china and the soviet SHE would always refer to russia, the soviet union um and today for her opinion on russian S T, V.

But is not a not to be concerned with um that insured to me the difference in treatment between the demo of the president remember my man came home one day and he was crying over the Monica lewinsky stuff and I don't understand that I was super on at the time um and he was trying to tell me that like you don't understand like the president, the commander, chief of the armed forces, the way that he treats women that rolled down to everybody and my commanding office going to treat this way already have to deal with all sex, the air force and then heard to listen those trump mm, by the pussy tapes so she's like common TV boys will be boys. That happens. It's not a big deal.

Baba that is yeah that that yeah that's that's wine yeah insane to me. Um there's two, there's two. Underlying things are two really important things to keep in mind that have taken me too long to figure.

One is that people don't genuinely a generate beliefs from some consistent underlying system. They inherit conStellations of beliefs that all kind of relying each other from social groups. So if you join a social group that says, um like androtten innocent, they probably also think that Donald trump is a victim of the deep state, that there is one thing to be drained.

They think that the election was stolen. They think that the vaccine are fake. They think that spaces has probably did have something to do with the way um they don't trust the fda.

They think that. We shouldn't be wasted time with russian ukraine and put is probably more on the rather we wanted. Md, they have all these believes that are part of the construction.

And it's true for the life is like bowling people on the rape. But I was true th for love as well, the day of these these conStellations as well. But the the thing that bothers me at the most and then i'm sorry, i'm wrapping this up.

No no, no the thing that bothers me the most is um I did this a little bit than I stop because I was truly depressing. I thought that people are just kind of dumb. They don't do any research of homework.

You get these like conStellations of belief and you don't realize how wrong you are. So what I started to do was for big content creatives, if you're going to make a big claim and your job is alternative media, buy some fuck of money on IT. okay?

If you think the tram is going to win, you're ninety nine percent, ninety nine percent. You should be able to give me fifty to one odds then on one hundred box, over ninety nine percent. sure.

One and ninety. okay? sure. When I said to making best with people on stuff like that, I expected people to tell me to fuck off, or expected people to take the bed because they were overconfident. But the third thing started happening that that was incredibly surprising me that actually lines, Peter, yes, yeah, IT alive with a lot of the, somebody will say something like trump is winning the next election, ninety nine percent.

And i'll be like, oh, okay, do you want about all all? Take a thousand dollars and if i'm right, you pay me one hundred ground, okay, because you're that confident and and instead of time me to fuck over, I know whatever. What they actually do is they start to speak and all of the sun, I realized they have all the information of the brand, like, well, hold on, he could get second die.

He could have some similar issues. He is old, maybe for some of the environment he might have us of other stuff could come out a made like, it's not even that they are is afraid of the bed, or they just like immediately tell me to forgot. They actually do how the information there, they're capable of exercising the critical pot process. They just don't most of the time, because of the social pressures for our belief systems, that was the really, and I stopped doing as like this is in same way. So you know all this, you know all of the reasons why what you said before was dumb IT just took somebody to put a quantitative value on your conviction for you to appropriately .

scale back your belief. And why was that so depressing to you?

Because I was just tell me they were dumb not that like not that they actually had all the information, but they were choosing not to apply IT.

Remember when I educated gen Greene world recently um who's a haq the only reason ever heard his neighbor because he happened to be the journal that Edward snowden note papers OK and we were debating and he was bringing up he was over the january trump s stuff and he was bringing out I studied his video as I study the arguments, I read the papers, I know all the bullshit t arguments and he brings up like a well, there was an elector scheme in hawaii and you know that and now they are doing another one and it's the same thing and i'm like, hold on the election scheme in hawaii. The state legislation approved both those states. I we going to the details, but I did actually say that I was like, will hold on with the White thing.

What do you mean by bring up the White thing? And then he actually went into detail about the White thing. And I like, wait. So you knew what was going on here, but you still brought IT up as a comparison because because once you bring up, all the facts is completely different from the trumping. So yeah, my my view on people is like an internet debater try to change people's minds.

Things has shifted a lot over the years is where at first say that, like people, I kind of dumb, and they they fall until lot of these bad thought processes and thought patterns and coding to biases and of the blind, we do have those. But people are actually a lot smarter than I think people realize. And if you treat a person and smart and need to present with the right information, and you try to break them out of like an echo chAmber, or this epidemic circularity that they get caught in, I think people can surprise you. That just has to be that push to do IT and a recognition that like you're not misunderstand this because you're stupid, a next amount of social pressure that's like boxing .

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I don't want to be made to look like complete idiom, stand my ground. And I think that sure, this times where ridicule is a useful tool, and you can use that to kind of, oh my god, like that discomfort kind of kick you out of, but for the most part, because people just embed themselves into their belief, especially if the fear is i'm going to look stupid or lose status if I get this wrong, that actually going okay, will tell me about that to just walk me through. You're thinking in being a little bit more gentle.

So soft signal effectiveness being most of the guys that are the the real hardcore seamen pissed taking people, I don't think that they change behavior particularly well. And the question is, what is that that you're trying to achieve with this communication that you having? Are you actually trying to get a good outcome of bringing people closer to something appropriating truth? Are you trying to look cool and don the other person during this discussion?

Yeah yeah and then you have to be mind full of so much about like they're changing their mind too. This is something that I kind of bring up but IT feels kind of bad to do this. But like i'm debating somebody who lets say somebody like bench pero OK, who I respect is an intelligence sy is clearly intelligent, is a really good this company.

But bench pero is a pundit on the daily wire and is the apart owner of the daily wire, which is a conservative new's island. His livelihood to some extent depends on him remaining in the good Graces of the conservative audience. So if if two studies were to come up tomorrow, the largest studies of all of mankind proved that social m and socialized healthcare, the best things, increased standards of living for everybody, for somebody like me, because i'm not like, I don't have a necessarily a political alignment, I can say like, oh, I change my mind.

These are like, cool. I I follow this now. But if you're a hard or dig on on the conservative side, it's going to be really hard to change your mind because that's not what people are coming to.

A form is to just IT takes some things they want. A little bit the reinforcement of the, I don't want, say, the echo chAmber there and a little bit of the reinforcement of like the social conStellation of ideas they've been heard. And then I you know we're left me of this examples.

All your ABS are feeling very good and you honest now sending with on the left that like when research and data is coming out that for a while we get way to hyped up on the trans kid stuff. Okay, personnel. I still think that there is a strong argument for a people under the A G V A team to have medications made a available to them um and that's a whole other thing you get into but people got way to gun.

How about IT and you need to be willing to critically accept research that might not reinforce that position. And a lot of people on the network totally unwilling to hear or see any data that might say that like oh you know um the simple rates might be like this or giving medication, these people may not produce these outcomes or some of these studies aren't the best that we're using for this particularly thing. Um here people people have a really hard time accepting information sometimes that is contrary to their you know belief system .

in what is part of the within the group. And then it's also a you can think of a kind of like a smooth ball, right? If you just accepted this world view wholesale, it's very easy. I don't need to do a ton of sense making myself. I'm going to be accepted by the group any hole that you pick in one of those things. Well, what does this say about my opinion on immigration, or on gun rights, or on abortion, or on how we should deal with the ukraine, or on the sense of agency of what we should do with socialize healthcare? All of these things sort of start to crack and crumble underneath the pressure of one of these threats .

becoming unpicked basically. Yeah and more importantly, because of the way that IT works as a conStellation and they're all uniquely generated, they all are kind of software line on each other. yes.

Um IT can't be the case that um. Oh god, the past six months and funding with conservatives over trumps. So that's all my example.

I'm so sorry. Okay, listen, progresses have big problems too. But I just can't be the case of the fda trustworthy.

That can never be the case because if that's the case, the whole premise of the fda being untrustworthy has to do with the concept of the deep state. IT has to do with the government being against us with pharmaceutics being corrupt. They're all like it's a genet tower, but there's no foundation.

They all find a way to keep the blocks in the area. yeah. And you can't point anything out because way that does because everything would completely, totally all. And the problem when you're in a social group is you can't have an inconveniency of applied ideas because that implies that you have an incongruity .

y and undamned as in if i'm .

with a group of conservatives and I say I believe in affirmative action in a fifteen dollar our minimum wage and the conservatives go okay, will be your your an idiot you wanted to destroy the economy and your um you know bigger tree of low expectations of our back okay I don't care what like our values are fundamentally different. So our apply positions are obviously going to be different.

I and this is my like I say like oh, i'm for minimum progress tion, you're not but that's of course our apply positions are way different. We have difference of values. But if I am next to somebody that is near me ideologically or or suppose I identified to be ideologically, well if we start to um if we start to separate on apply positions.

So maybe I believe that we need to build more housing to help homeless people and somebody else says, but we need to uh, in extract rent control to keep rents down. If we have a disagreement there, that person isn't going to attack me on the applied position, is going to say, no, you want to build more housing, rank controls, obviously Better. That person is going to go to the core belief and you say, oh, you hate homeless people.

yes. Now the core belief attack from somebody close to me hurts a lot more than from the conservative like way hold. I don't hate homeless people, right? And i'm sure it's same for you in a manos here. Well, know, I know, I know you branch up from that.

I give you think like a manos here or like a red pill person if they're on to show with a bunch of feminist you hate women and you're damaging the men and well, yeah you're feminist obviously we disagree but if is two red palace disagreeing with each other like I think that you're advice is horrible for Young man, you're not advocating for them. I was wait with the fuck. Union is my whole platform. You now you ve got a huge a disagreement. I think this is called and think it's got the you might call the big gtc of small differences basically that the the close of somebody is to ideologically .

little differently. Ah it's A A really good little process that I went through. Friend ask me, how do you know if the content created that you're consuming is someone that you can trust? basically? How do you know if the trustworthy and the same thing is true? I think for friends, you can actually use .

this for friends just as easily. As for content.

they subscribed to my channel. Youtube got contact that would help. But first one, when was the last time that this person surprised you with an opinion? Second one, when was the last time that they publicly admitted that they were wrong about something? Third one is.

Does that in group buying together of the mutual love of their in group, of the mutual hatred of an out group? And then the fourth one was, do they speak to people with differing points of views in value sets for reasons other than mocking them? And if you go through those four steps and there's probably like a million, there's just like kind of obvious ones to me ah there's no one really that trigger at least a few of those that is also a shyster.

It's very rare unless they're doing IT performative vely in playing some five D S. It's very rare that someone goes through those things. And I think that even using that for yourself, whether or someone that create IT online or just wants to be able to make sense of the world thinking, okay, what was the last time that I admitted that I was wrong? Was the last time that I had an opinion that people would have probably been surprised?

What is the last time that I consumed a piece of content that I probably going to disagree with? Do the people that I hang around with, do we mostly talk about things that are shared values, are shared hatred? It's just a nice little process to go through and that help me.

You know, we consume content to like the people that make IT also consumer. You know, you set waiting for a uber or do whatever you're waiting for someone to arrive. You i'll see, I watch tailor the reverses the lives of tiktok lady and i'll see what goes on. And you know, you start a for opinions about this sort of stuff. So I think it's important like that's just a really nice self correcting mechanism, at least like a process that you can go through that helps.

Yeah I definitely a super grade. I would add on to that for for for an individual that's listening to this or for connective is whatever to something that have held a lot is don't try to free yourself from biases. I think got this, the fools iron, and they get lurs into a false n of security.

I think it's Better just be aware of like talking to fit pitfalls and then tried to correct for them afterward. So for instance, you mention that thing about getting upset, people will dig in. I absolutely dig my fucking hilson, I will.

And if I don't like you enough, and if we're arguing passionate and have all argue that two of five, if I disagree about much and I know that about myself and I know that does something, i'm not going to claim that doesn't happen and i'm going to spend my entire life I trying to make IT so that that doesn't have not going to get, not going to meet. But instead will to do is listen, when I argue, I get hate that. I know that, but the next day i'll ve got a big argument.

I'm going to review IT because when i'm removed from the argument of twenty four hours, now I can go to like, okay, do this. Please make a good point. I get to have a good response to this.

Like, do I need to take to my argument with a Better in some things that I need to just like take part? Their argument, like being able to correct for biases rather than to try to eliminate them, is a way healthier mindset. When I was doing research as well on certain podcast, but the conservatives comes again.

But like for doctor malone, the guy who said he was the father of the M R N. A vaccine when he was on joe rogan, before I started doing research, I would do a lot of on stream. I would write at the top of a no pad for claim.

Want to write. The first thing I would write is I do not like joe rogan's opinion on vaccines. I don't trust doctor Robert moon at all.

The reason why I write these two things down is because I know that this is priming me to disagree with anything that they say. So I have to be extra careful when one of them says something like, oh, well, you know, oranges actually make your dick bigger. I might just think immediately this is so stupid and write that I hate both of them, but I need to come OK hold on. I know that i'm pride like crazy and both these guys, i'm aware of that. So I need to .

be careful when I evaluate ims.

I just say that I added in on your brain zero and to that.

yeah you have to just like try to correct .

or biases or be aware of them, but don't pretend that you can get rid of an absolutely cannot there's no way, as a human being.

do you think that the debates that you do help to change minds? Obviously, you ve spent you've got this big one coming up and you've done a number over the last few months and it's like a high Price of you're interested, right? You're engaging and stuff. What do you think is the net outcome of you sitting down with glen Greenwald and alex Jones or you sitting down with Normal fingle stein? And like reever think is .

several things that happen. One is that hopefully there's a road broad, broad narrative thing, but hopefully shapes the views a little bit of both sides. So if you're propane tinian and you here me argue, maybe you moderate a tad on some of the things that you are saying about how evil and blood thirsty israeli citizens are if you're a superbike zest and you hear me argue, hopefully you moderate a bit on your opinion is okay.

Maybe real has made some mistakes, historical. And then if you're homeless in the middle, those are the people that I try to like, scoop up. Basically are people who eat me. And also like, hey, I was really big on this propelled tinian stuff. But but all the demonstrations and the prohibition ff made me feel like crazy and not at home. I'm glad I thought it's reasonable or maybe it's like, hey, i'm like a super prozac is guy but you i'm really uncomfortable with how much people support like the mass settlements and the demonization of palestinians and pretending like we never have to make any conception ever i'm you there so ah I tried to like kind of sculp up the people who are a little bit politically homeless right now and then hopefully I can kind of soft and the positions on both sides, depending on what particular issue that i'm arguing.

which is presumable why you've got a problem with the short sound bite thing because allow the entirety of the conversation to be .

encapsulated yeah basically and people I don't like short sound bites because people don't engage with them like short sound bites. I don't make thirty second videos. If you hear me say something in thirty seconds that's going to, except from a larger conversation if you hear me say something like destiny says that palestinians have historically always been violent towards the israel.

okay. I think that's a true statement. That's a sound by that you can cut and if you have that sound bite, what you would say is like in my and you can say, oh, does he believes that palestine es historically always spend violent towards israel? That's fine, but you can't take that and say destiny thinks that palestinians are solely to blame for the problems in between israel, palestine or destine only thinks it's palestinians who ve made mistakes historically with error aleta like people will extra plate so much for one clip, instead watching a conversation or getting more of a holistic view and what's going on.

You know, I D like the equivalent would be like you hear a friend, like if we conducted ourselves in the real world, like people treat content creators and you be having with a friend, and like, hey, what do you want to eat you feel like, you know what, I could really go for a pizer right now. And you like pizer. Do you hate all indian food? Like, what do you mean? No, I just want a pizz.

Do you hate steak? No, I just wanted to pizza. Okay, well, you just say that you like pizza, do not like any other type of food or it's just like so bizarre that you think in twenty seconds you can get a clip and have a full summary of like what somebody thought about .

an issue or did you watch a how much if you got to watch the tailor s versus lives of tiktok debate? Did you watch much of IT?

I watched there is part of IT was supposed to on twitter, I think like three minutes. And I watch much.

how much? Much, just minutes into, okay. And IT was a car crash. IT was. So you say that books should be banned from schools.

Which book have you read and debate? IT was like, I actually like this one and this one and one. You think that a children's body parts should be cut off. Which parts exactly? And and I was just like this, I know like unstoppable object in an immovable force, like just clashing up against each other and tell the on has got this mask on outside, which just seems to be like it's like purpose free yeah yeah like it's .

is my go like every single like if somebody like so many democrats got long cover, so many republicans got vaccines, injuries is so crazy how that worked out? You know, every, every conservative they had vacated ten people that have died from vacations and every democratic ms to know like lazy.

What's the because this woke fishing. What's the other one? Like trad fishing, I guess, but this is like trad trigger ing, right? It's like purposefully doing things, say what you want to tell the run like he knows the objects of what she's doing. You've seen her instagram. No, it's just don't need to spend too much time on IT, but it's a lot of like matter means about what's going on kind of about the situations about all the rest of IT. So she's obviously playing .

this like huge oh, do you think and that the mask was part of the mean then? absolutely. H, I have so much more respect for her. I thought he was like, well, that's really funny. Then I think I like a god, why people work .

just one hundred percent, because he knew that by sitting down doing IT. I think i'm not calling Taylor arend's a media genius. Like I think that she's like pretty reliably in, but there are certain things that she's able to like, certain games that she's able to play OK where share doing that.

And the reason that I think this, I ve got my biases based on her instagram. And her instagram is very matter. It's all about the narratives about her or about what she's been talking about, whatever. And if you saw IT, you go yeah like that takes a degree of sort of stepping out okay from IT and seeing IT from where IT is doesn't make a points or her any Better of a person but um interesting yeah I think the I think the master was a bit.

Checkout later.

Pretty it's prety funny.

That is pretty funny. The only thing of a Better, I guess he showed up, but like a little banded on her ARM for I just got my oot.

I had this conversation near the day about whether or not we pass peak woke, like whether I did about a year and a half ago. My guess, what would IT fin?

Um I feel like the I think that there had been a couple court cases. One was near, I think I was about two years ago, was with the over. I was at a school called overland something.

And I think a black person tried to steal something from a Bakery across the school, and the students and the Bakery called the cops, and all the person and the students. Protesters think the Baker was racist. But the college joined in with the students basically and I think that college basically ended up owing like thirty million dollars to the Bakery over that loss. IT was huge. Um there was that there was the whole flushing. The harvard and the two other uh administrators get raked over the coals on the weird that was really crying and and I think most people thought of such I think a lot of the propane stinking an stuff which is unfortunate because they do need good international representation but the marches and the all of that was not good was not good publicity for them. Um yeah and I just I feel people are looking at all kind of the council's culture stuff a little bit less I feel like anette ally, like the word .

retard coming back a bit more as the gay. And do you watched this? I have not so all he is gay and cracker and me he is great gay cracker and retard OK all my chat .

said that and they need to watch because he said, gin cracker .

I okay wow so yeah he's doing a bit about um how as a Young boy you're basically your mom's gay best friend and he says, you remember that you remember when you were Young you were just gay and then starts rolling into the gets so you kind of tempers IT a little bit and SHE lait down the line but yeah, I think you're right. I think like those words coming back into resurgence and there was a novelty around this like actually being woke, being aware of all of the different social issues and this sort of performative empathy, toxic compassion thing that was like novel and made you seem progressive. Uh, underwear and now IT seems like a mean yeah but and also I didn't .

really penetrate as much as people thought that would is very funny because the perception in the united states, fuck about the bully conservatives again. The perception in the united states is that the far left was a huge problem, and there might be some extremists on the right or whatever. But the reality is the far left did make in anywhere legislatively of the of the justice stems that had got in.

They've moderated so much that now the wokingham ban on them, they super angry about any standards and his position as a policy. They not like A O C. For a long time because they got SHE sold follow and she's not attacking over a democrat as much so that they have no power in the lawmaking bodies.

Largely speaking, like older americans don't vibe with the super workshop basically at all. And the only place that these people kind of have powers and like school administrations, and even for like some of the school stuff people are kind of like this is getting kind of silly. You are not seeing like the huge protest and demonstrations like you use to against like the milo yanai sis and everything uh but on the right uh their party is about to jump off a Cliff fallowing.

Donald trump, some of like eighty percent republicans would literally follow Donald trump to the end of the earth, which is a big problem for the republican party. They seem to not think that they are kind of capture by anything. So it's funny that for the most part, like the democratic party and democratic voters are basically like something left.

And they kind of like got tagging along a little bit with like the crazy walk stuff. But now they're this is like whatever. But on the far right, I think it's something like I say far right, but it's the majority republicans, I think it's something seventy percent of them don't believe in the results of the last election.

They think that was actually rigging that like when you look at policies in terms of far right, disbelieving the last election verses allowing trans fucking like child porn box in schools or whatever the next the most recent accusation is, I don't know whether people would find an equivalency between those two things.

The biggest problem that I think are the thing that people often has underrate, is how pervasive the beef is. So for instance, like nazism, in the all right, in my opinion, was a big concern because of the type of belief that I was. But I never really picked up that much.

Was a french people?

Yeah, I was a french right there. And I had a huge problem from twenty sixteen on words of like, you know, like people in a lot of calling everybody of the king. Not I like, bro, do know and I know not see so does this not a good label to call all these people, not all these people all right. IT doesn't make any sense. Um and I agreed, like I said, for the especially for the trans stuff, although I think we ve moved past like the peak culture moment for that although a lot of that was also um IT continued to be perpetuated because conservatives apparently had nothing else to talk about size trans people so I fed into a lot as well.

That's true. I mean, we source so much of the discourse was not necessarily about the first incident IT was about the reaction to the incident and the subsequent reaction to the reaction and the the discourse that came out about that and and .

also the overreact. This goes back to the to the moderated reactions thing. I feel this is a totally unsubstantial to belief. I can't prove this at all, just my feeling. I feel like a lot of parents got mad about stuff in school libraries and about what kids were in in class, not because it's gotten worse than the ever husband, but because we would cove IT. And with children staying home for the first time ever, parents actually looking at the curricula, whether children were were, and for the first time ever, they were like, wait, what the fuck is this like?

Well, I it's not not a problem just because you're not aware of IT.

Sure, which I agree. But I haven't issue with people thinking that stuff has become uniquely bad, something that I believe in very firmly. I think the downfall of ander tay, I also can prove this.

I think the downfall of androtten started with those stories that came out of the U. K. About little boys and class bullying, little girls using and rotate stuff.

Those stories got huge. And then the talk of like our little boys in school learning things from educate and ba ba blah. And he was horrible. And people, you know.

had are to get very defensive about children in many .

ways yeah but the thing that I was thinking was, yeah, sure, this is happening and it's definitely horrible. But how much should we just now seeing you know, little boys, girls, boys in to school because you've cell ones in front everybody. This isn't a new thing and nothing.

It's OK like we've always boy the at each other. no. So to you to circle back, i'm not defending the whatever weird transport ooks or sex or gay sex guides or whatever existence school libraries. I'm sure they're out there and i'm sure that they were inappropriate and dumb but like there's a switch think god a has a happened to me yet but parents like flip a switch when they become parents where they forget every single thing about being a kid and like, oh my god, this is the worst I ever I get my kid is from seeing the ship and blob up blood.

Like when I was a kid, I don't know, was like this UK, but I member staying up at night where you would go to like IT was channel fourteen hundred and fifteen and IT was like the cinemax, like soft code, but I was like blurry, but like every now and then that I would like come through kind of see, like the bob and I was like, good yeah, that's what we did as kids. But I feel like if parents, other kids doing IT today, but like, oh my god, it's the weakening steps, like getting my twelve year old to think of porn or if like a movie like mrs. Fire came out today, maybe like, wow, Robin William pushing the .

woke e trans cross dressing agenda um yeah that is I don't know the the capturing of smart people's attention in dugas mary good friend. And he said he can't believe how many people have spent that time over the last few years debating about whether men and men and women and women are not and that's A A critique.

I think both of this shouldn't be discussion that we're having I, E, sexes, something which is binary and real, and also the overreaction from his own side of this capture when there are other things that we could be focusing on. He went, did this documentary on the street to philadelphy looking at this trank epidemic like that's a much that's a huge problem and fatal and opp o crisis. All this should like those are really, really, really big problems but they don't play quite a well as the culture .

war .

stuff yeah and so you've got like decent .

test passing stuff in florida of like banning hormonal therapy for transit. How many people is as even impacting I member when mat walsen on joe rogan and and I think rogan asked him, how many kids do you think go on hormones? And this is right. Whole document on mt. Wash was like it's probably in the millions and the other like five thousand over like some .

of like really did ah yeah what I do mean another thing that's played into this and there's always something new and I did a veramente against almost all of the bullet woke stuff, but not only for the reason that I think that is in itself is dog shit, but that IT captures everyone's attention on all sides. You get the reaction, then you get the subsequent reread tion. And then that becomes this big debate that gets blown out of, no, it's like the especially if for some reason, especially the work stuff for both sides, seems like such a shelling point that everybody can get super passionate about. And this most recent thing with germany, with google.

even know what is this?

Google's A I disaster. Have you not seen this? Now.

my mind are all study for this debate. Yeah, what's this?

Allow me to educate.

Go way, way. Is this the thing where when you ask for pictures, it's always like black people in asian people that would be okay. So I don't .

know that trying get good. IT tried to be so anti racist that I ended up being racist. OK and IT annoy people on the left, because if you asked for an image of some, that is, IT was black nazis.

And then IT annoyed people on the right, because if you asked for image of the founding fathers, IT was black founding fathers. So everybody got pissed off. And then IT sort of hid accommodation of hid in a raised history in this regard.

But people were using IT, using its anti racism to be really racist. So they would say something like, can you give me an image of fourteen century philosophers drinking great juice, eating watermelon? And that would be for black people drinking great juice and eating watermelon. So just the whole retroactive changing of history after the super able thing where they collected corrected delicieuse voice.

I think at the it's all part of some like a big consolation of different data points that are making people very concerned about what's happening to history and what's unacceptable IT IT also has implications for whether or not google itself is a reliable searcher is are going to deliver information in a way which is actually factual like given that so many people are going to use that to try and find something out to what if all of the real stuff is hidden down on page, fucked in five, you don't know. So yeah, I mean, from a branding position that very much very I could not have done IT more poorly than this. And it's probably according to my Baker, it's probably gone through a million differently.

This isn't the sort of thing. It's not like a bloodline thing that perhaps was just one part of the marketing department that throw a case of six packet a dille movant. I this is gone through an awful lot of layers before it's got here. So IT doesn't seem like it's happened by accident.

So you think there was like an intentional employed to make IT like not racist store.

I think that they are forced ed feeding diversity and so much obviously, they didn't mean for IT to be so unharmed that like anyone with the most basic prompt in history could create something which had to stand up like you can't make IT to make a family wipe, or you couldn't get IT to make a family. White people, I think the only way you can get IT to make White people as if you ask for ukrainians.

But I was like, native american president, and show me an image of the the king of spain from the eighteen century is like a black guy. So I think that IT was force feeling diet. And you can say asking things like show me your working or ask like explained me why you did this.

And it's just the most rudimentary basic worki talking points like the most cri. Like IT is important that we represent people from diverse backgrounds like IT was. So there wasn't much complexity to IT, but this force feeding of diversity plays into the D I concern that a lot of people have at the moment and IT just more distraction.

And like god, like if this hadn't happened, if you just made IT an accurate representation of what people needed. But now we've got another right now, this very moment could be talking about something else that would be really useful. But it's an important now it's another important cultural moments to join disease, to work out what's going on. And IT just every single time. IT pushes us back and pushes us back.

pushes us back. And I got two huge issues play. The first thing is, I always tell people, if you're are trying to engage in real, true political discourse, you understand people don't ever start with the assumption that people are doing like evil, crazy stuff.

I think that when you when you start from that perspective, you ve already lost the ability to understand the other side. So people in the left that want like trans kids, legitimate, I feel like, or a lot of them legitimately feel like there are children that are in nee that have to get some medical stuff to make their lives workable. Basically, they I think that probably come from a place of compassion.

Generally speaking, I think when people on the right are fighting against stuff flared trans kids, I think they genuinely believe that there are a lot of children. They can get confused and they get swept up in online communities and then start take medication and they don't know what's gone on and it's going to be damaging to them. And I think that generally comes from a place of compassion is important to start from there because if we start from the place of like while my enemy is trying to destroy the country for X, Y, Z reasons, you're like you're totally lost, right?

Um the people that did the instruction of genuine six, I imagine, genuinely thought that the election was stolen. They really did think that that election was stolen and there was some crazy of happening and that's why they had to go the White house and try to stop the know the confirmation of those everything. I genuine believe that they thought that that they were just going to everything up right now because there are some real bad dudes.

Um I think that I only say that because usually when when corporations make mistakes, I think that they're usually trying their best because when when a lot of people are involved, I think they're usually trying their best. Now it's just like one or two people involved sometimes like personal and genus, could really mess things up. But there is a lot of people involved.

The idea that this is top down order, like, okay, guys, fuck White people, we're going to do this. We're gonna to edit the mall were going to make sure that we're D I was opposed to somebody like, listen, we going to make sure that these are they very enough. We don't want to have so every single thing is spitting out a million White people and then they probably overcome A.

I think .

IT cow us sot, yes.

So this is Andrew short. Talk me about this like his shirt is razor is a it's not coordination.

It's r yeah because somebody might be something like, hey, are we fucking up right now, guys, because you don't. And that could absolutely be a .

thing to I think it's I think that's a big part of IT and especially with this dynamic we're talking about now because if you're the guy, it's like being the first time first person that stops s clapped after like some dictator that stands up and gives a speech yeah don't be the fucking and first person to stop lapping and not going to be the guide that says maybe this whole diversity thing, maybe it's going too far.

Maybe we don't need to do a formative action. May be we should keep the S A S. Maybe they do actually.

maybe men actually need a little bit of firm action in school or maybe we're going a little bit too far on having no twenty percent of our advertised.

So you think that women should you want to get women out of the boldness in back into the kitchen.

is that right? But remember, it's because a slight difference in apply position will be interpreted as a huge difference in fundamental moral belief. You want to cut because because you hate trans people, you want to get back on the diversity of because you think White people are Better than black IT, right? That's always where I go.

So, so hard for. And in this environment is going to be a lot of like minded people. So hard for them to course correct, which is why I talk about how when those two groups like branch off into their own thing, that is incredibly destructive. I hate the fact that conservatives all talk about how we need to get out of the schools because they are corrupt, whatever the fuck, because, well, now the people who are even more fucking and say, I need you there, you need to be there, you're got to be participate. Or when left ending, people don't want to participate in certain aspects of, like conservative culture. When left ending, people don't want to celebrate success or wealth or you know businesses doing well or OK will call will not if I, if I am a patriotic american, I basically had to be a fucking conservative because I am not going to be patriotic. On aside, there's telling me to hate my country for fucking slavery and colony's m .

and White supremacy recap that so it's the difference in applied position is indicative of a difference, a change in value of people feel like, yeah yes OK. So just because this is something that you want to have happen in the real world, there is a an implication about your moral stance because for .

most people they didn't do the work to go from the initial uh the the the grounded ethical stance to the apply position. And since they didn't do the work is one in the same to them. That's why if I talk about israel, palisson is so frustrating and still happens to my time but this is policy to say, I don't think I would say anything happening when I was apartheid or genocide.

They don't hear OK you don't think it's supported to do cide they here you think it's okay what's happening? You think that palestine should live in territory where they never go to stake. You think it's okay to kill civilians. That's what people here the same way that you might say um I don't know if I support affirmative action. You just don't like black people. You think that is there are fault, everything united states or if you say maybe we ve gone a bit too far in the diversity stuff, they are like, oh, okay, well, the only reason you can cause you hate diversity and you're a White premises yes, because yeah, those things .

are so connected. It's not a slippy slope of. It's like an interpretation of slippery slopes. Ess is this very small iceberg above the water.

This is not even a little something is a horse zonal platform. That these things are here when I, that's why when you there is where is whose the aleo conner worker, whatever there's an ethical position I think it's called um you can be an ethical anti realism. You believe in non cognitive ism and when you believe in non cognitively. M what you're saying is when I express a moral proposition, I say that murder is bad. What i'm actually doing is i'm just expressing an emotionally, say, murder.

Bo O, A muro emotive.

It's not to ism, right? No, no more positive.

M.

philosophe to stream .

at me told me about this two nights ago in miami, he came up from my birthday, emotive fuck in epistle mics or something like that. Maybe that. But yeah, it's basically, I mean, this is one of his best ideas that he taught me, and i've never forgotten. But yes, it's basically whether somebody says that they are in support of something or against, it's basically like abortion or ba. And then they work back from that position and just back they just sit there.

Yes so that's why so like friends is of a girl released as a story I cover a lot of um. Because the rapid reviews on my stream has a little crude reviews yeah because people put out the me two stories, never read them like, okay, well, what is the do we feel like it's incredible allegation of what's going on? And for a lot of these things, if you say woman raped, you're saying what you're really saying is what happened was really bad and .

is somebody to .

rape yeah or or do whatever that was and if you kind of like, well, I looked to this, I think the guy was definitely pushy um there might have been like some groping like not good idea I was rape here you think grape E A um or if you push against the diversity measures, you know White supremacy. Yeah or if you push against the, you know the trans use, stop like oh discrimination yeah train suicide.

A because for a lot of people, the applied position and the ethical position are one in the same. These are inaccurate ly linked and there is no difference that can happen. Which again, if you're debating somebody different, I knew who the fuck cares care? We have different applied and other position were supposed to but if somebody similar to you, we can't be.

What do you mean you don't think there's a genocide? Do you think it's OK to murder innocent civilians? Like those two things are linked. They're not as total not secretary.

Yeah just how unified is the left compared with the right? Do you think at the moment, this can be within the cultural commentary space? This can be within the people who support decide. This could be within the the politicians to the report of IT. Do you have a sense of how fractured each of these are comparatively?

I feel like the right is more unified, probably because they have a figure like trump to unify around. The left is a little feels a little bit more scattered, but there's also going to become this also like very dependent on the communities that you're in.

Like I said, like if your online on twitter, your impression of the american left in the united states is like a crazy woke mob of like cancel culture children running around the streets and then you forget that like if you go you know to like, you know, like north CarOlina or georgia, and you're talking to like thirty year old, thirty five year old, fifty year like black voters and stuff, these people are not woke, pro trands people running around on the streets and like, my child needs H R T. right? This is not the demography at all. Or when you look like older democratic voters, like generally these people are gonna kind of the the cool old world people, the cool like the customer politi etes, who are like, yeah, I am A, I am a walk person. I believe in gay marriage that used to be like the .

the people yeah and but those .

people largely had like cool social ability like I think that we should have gay marriage, I think freedom of which is important I think that um yeah I was like we should probably have some kind of like worker protections and unions need to come back and but like those kids of work things not the like my four year old identifies is also on a roquet thing too because you brought this up early with both sides on this.

One of the big issues the left has is a situation will come up. Somebody comes down, they say, my four year old child is trans and I know that because, you know, they kicked right in the woman, whatever. And then conserves ago you were ffc king, insane. okay?

The what should happen is is what I do when somebody comes to me and they bring me a crazy left in and belief, and I go, what about when this guy said that this thing can can happen when they said that, like all women are constantly being raped by men by looking at them, then what I say is, oh, that's really dumb and then you move on. One of the big reasons why some of these small issues get blown up so much is because the people on the left will take debate and they will start defending absurd shit. There is not an epidemic of people with four year old trans people in the united states.

There is an epidemic of people willing to defend them though, and that's the issue. And that's why people, the right, they are so justified and like their culture or stuff, even if there's not a huge of people ah IT took me a long time to fix this because i'm always talking like why is there such a huge issue? What is transfer one percent of the population if that depend .

on how many innocents center of yeah and but IT.

when you talk conservatives, you look at, you go polls. I think the one that I saw was, I think conservatives, twenty percent of people are trans in the us. I don't like what why is this the case? But then when you look at the left, well, how many people are they are willing to defend IT? And now I understand more OK.

wow. Yeah, that's very interesting. So it's like a it's not about the volume of incidents that occur. It's about the volume the volume of discussions that are come around.

people willing to defend up. Yes, if everybody is like, yeah this is really dumb when you've defend the right of the fuck they're na fight against, right? So when ten pool and only people obsessed with these weird books, libraries about like guides to gay sex or whatever like this is brought to me are going OK um if that's in those libraries, yeah that's pretty weird and publishing with her in schools and then you're done with that.

It's not onna be a huge thing on all L, G, T people and gay people need weve. Why stake your position or die on the hill? There is so many more important things to fight over.

Who do you thinks doing the best work in the political space at the moment? Is there are anyone that you, that you watch yourself? Is there anyone that you think, even if I don't watch them, I can respect the way that they work with this stuff?

Um I don't watch enough because I extreme and I work like all the times. It's hard to like sit down and listen to like podcast or shows or whatever ah I don't want to venture any guesses. I'm sure there are people out there, but most of what I is not good, but it's also those most of the people that I debate in everything.

It's an interesting， an interesting world at the moment. I think looking at what I will shut out one guy.

I was juicy or pondering politics. He is a cold guy. His channels like exploiting recently he does a good job and are trying to evaluate things like prety fairly from detective .

idea who not Crystal an saga, who's the other guy that kind of like slightly left leaning, being non rogan a bunch. Records in that Green is Young Green behind them.

No idea.

Fuck the guy's name.

even if you think .

i'm going to problem OK. Well, he he seems to be like kind of popular. And then you got a debate with second time, actually with the last time. One, the last time that we were together was at the volk um on your own stage with a alex Jones and then you had another crack. How did that go about .

as I expected that to he's definitely very much like a show man, which I can tell that makes me hit and more less I don't know. How do you mean like I think that he is legitimately a grifter and that, like he knows he's putting on to show my guy. Remember when we were talking, he did this thing where when we were having a conversation, but I think I did like I so like making, I looked at me and I think I put his hand on my shoulder and I moved his house. I don't touch me and I member.

when would you tell you?

Um no, I just don't like IT if somebody y's trying to like show like physical downs, like no get your fucking hands are going to do this right. If you want to kill me, we can kill where you're going to put your hand is like a weird going, my dad but remember after we finished right and i'm because I feel very strongly about all my political believes. If you talk to anybody, my personal life, we're going to take you that like if we go out to eat and you bring up and that is great, it's going to be just like a street member.

Arguably, I just feel very passive about everything that I believe in but after the show with alex Jones, you know like i'm still like pretty like in the zoned debate like he god was like that was I was a great show, was real footer when you did that, get your hand off me thing hilaria sort of and he just like works so and I think for him I think get literally is just like a big shell like just has fun with that basically yeah which in one sense might make me dislike him less because like, okay. Well, he doesn't actually believe in the crazy things he says. But then in the other things kind of makes me hate a more because is like will fuck you're listeners that we believe this should and now I don't know if you're probably this per like fun and people are really taking you seriously .

even though you don't yeah I understand what you mean. The IP someone is compelled because of the way that they believe that IT legitimately that the gregarious position is like, oh, well, you kind of at the most of your emotions yeah, I supposed to if yeah, that's a difficile one.

This is why I don't usually much time figuring out with somebody a grifter or not, because as a matter, the harm is a real regardless. Well.

if you're on the internet, everybody, he's a grafter and everybody is a shell and everybody is stupid and everyone is in IT for the money and doesn't really agree with what they believe, and just doing IT with the ipod of the whatever .

and the media apparent, but the people, the followers to do. So that's what you have to address, even eventually pear in all these people like gripes, the people that listen to them really believe IT.

So the second thing again, about it's not about the incident how the incident. It's not about the event that happens to about how many people then were prepared to defend themselves in that event. Yeah, well, i'm fucking in.

No, man, IT seems IT seems to me like a very messy time and i'm really, really hoping that it's just gonna more sane out the other the side of this, everything seems to be ramming up ready for november, but I don't know all well. We and see, do you think the right poles dying? That's something that both of us have spent a little bit of time orbiting in one former another. Are the you debating IT on me getting abuse by IT? What do you think is happening with the red pot?

And I think most of them has like probably like a two to four years shelf life for internet content. And I think I came and I kind of went and rotate and the um the pretrial or preciptation imprisonment probably hurt a bit because he took A A lot of the publicity. I think that the the nature of like the conversion for the red pill stuff, I think was really bad.

Um I think the like the content strategy from lot of the red pillars, I think he was a very subpar also like that for me, the way that I ve stayed fresh and relevant for fifteen years of concentrations because i'm always finding like new stuff to talk about or a new angle to kind of kids something from or like i'm kind of moving on with contemporary events. I feel like the red pull stuff. I feel like I could have writing the script for those shows after began two of them um to where it's like, okay guys, today we're gonna k about this body. Can't matter.

Do guys value you for the money of money that you make? Do women fuck over en in divorce? I mean lonely because that they simps IT was like the same topics for, like over a year such that became like a member when I would go on to show something like bingo cards like, okay, well, the body count question coming up and yeah high per g our women high pergamus or not and then it's like and and it's money because like the questioning will always there's a face I called all roads leterme.

I think if there's not, there should be one. We're basically literally, no matter how somebody answers a IT always goes back to what you wanted to so I might see to go, have you ever dated a guy you say you don't care about at all? You are dated a guy that's five five and the ground might be like, no, I haven't cause you hate.

Sure guys, you know, you want OK if you dated to get this five five? Yes, I have. Oh, one a, when I was in a high school, he did get five.

really? Are you together anymore with them? Well, no, you don't because he was a shopping right?

Like ah or is like, are you doing a guys as I like, yeah, I am now is like a really, is he rich? Um no, is not that rich? Does he have a huge tick? Yes, take very, uh, hi gamest you just want the poor boy you're proba find a rich guy stuff like there's always and tate actually is the perfect uh example of the all roads lead rome okay, when and tate had the pretrial imprisonment, they were never gonna charges because I was all a sm IT was just a sham, uh, kangaroo court.

Now that there are charges, if if there wouldn't have been charged and he would have been released with no charges, no endicott was because obviously IT was a scam, right? But now that there are charges be obviously because it's a scam, of course, they're to make up charges. So now they're to go to court.

And if they they go to court and they get uh, if they go to court and they beat the charges is because I was bullshit the whole time. But if they go to go to court and they're convicted, what's because it's bullshit the whole time they are going to make IT up always. So literally, no matter what happens, it's always because of your particular prediction of the world.

So you end up with these prediction models that will predict every single event, which means they don't actually predict anything. But IT allows you to the cognitive distant of your predictive model not being correct. So you don't have to worry if you've a good view, uh, like a good blueprint of the world because litter, no matter what happens.

you've always got a way to make sense of IT in the future. This is why that step process time, someone publicly admit that they were wrong. Once last time they surprised you, someone came out and have a discussion about this like that.

I actually think that a lot of the time I do actually see girls in relationships with guys that hypoglycemia wouldn't predict that they were in relationship with that guy to have game. It's not really about the fact that he's tall or fit or rich or has status or or any of these things. He just seems to be like a really nice, nice guy, and he wants to have a family, and he ends up being I wasn't expecting that.

I was not expecting that. That was something that would have surprised me, you think? okay. Well, that shows an evolution of talking points, but I don't know how many times, and this is why you i've still fascinated evolutionary psychology and intersection and interest, sexual dynamics and all of that stuff. It's very interesting to me.

But the holds like lambasting women for having standards that are too high, that that never was something that really cross my world of content creation. But even now it's okay. So like what else is? How many? How come? He's an interesting, and he is much more interesting angle to me for something that contemporary.

And this, uh, skill of Young girls to the left. And the skill even goes Young guys to the right, given the fact that most people date within the political affiliation, and because politics are becoming more important to each individual person. Now that's interesting that I can knew.

Okay, so what do we do? Was this coming from? And what does this? Me, thirty percent of democrat parents are afraid that that son adult would marry republican. That's interest.

What what about like a parental pressure? How does that plan to that's interest? You can keep talking about the same thing, but do IT with a different angle on IT continuing to just hammer away in the same points. I know it's just that play if you have that degree of patients maybe to be able to just have the same conversation a thousand times, but it's A I don't I don't have that in my tarbox.

The description is boring. The descriptive part, because yes is the same thing of origin. And then the pressure ript part is boring, because for a lot of these movements, people don't actually give you good advice to kind of navigate IT sometimes, unless you can become a top one, instead that they try to prescribed as, like a world that doesn't exist anymore.

Like this is no good, because women at birth control, because women are, you know, earning money and baba a blood, okay, does not changing. So you have to give the advice for the world that exists now, not tell guys you have to become a top one percent or you need to earn so much fucked and money that the traditional girls will go back to liking you. It's never advice gear to us.

What how do you navigate the modern world where women don't need an women are looking for different things and relish. How do you navigate that? It's just like we need to go back to the the days of old and everything is mess up now because feminism complaining and blow, blow. Bbb.

talk to me about the A D H D. diagnosis. This seems like a big change for yes.

a totally you change. Um and then when my son was seven, he had huge attention problems in school such that he would like he was like rolling around on the floor. He couldn't.

He couldn't stay chair between classes. They were having a growth through like resistance tunnels to like burnouf energy. IT was a huge problem of focus. Um at home. I was really hard to get him to stay on test for like chores if I want to to like pick up leaves with them, like doing the yard. What I was really, really, really difficult to on task ling like that um and then at some point, because we considered initially, like maybe he's all test or something, we're like that now.

And then uh school psychologist school there is whatever floated the idea of A D H D um and we talking to get an evaluation and he's got like clearly mark a hd and I didn't buy that because I can play against of my son who were playing like mine grabber, something he can sit through through a computer for fucking and sixteen hours and I would like this bullshit test. I we're going to sit here, we're going to look each other for five fucking minutes. You onna move, we going going to do this.

I know you can do this and we would, you can do this thing. So like this, I know this eighty thing is bush. I I don't believe I didn't believe that like IT SHE was really a real thing. Um so then now that's my personal feelings on IT. Um and at the time.

like that's written at the top of the dock .

yeah I don't I don't believe that it's real. I don't I would never take a brain pill medication cause I don't want to change. I am ba, but my responsibility as a father to him to proceeds my own personal views on IT. So I O IT if if for nothing else I oit to him to at least do the research. So when I started doing reading a research on add, I come across a whole bunch of things that I didn't understand relating to add.

And the most shocking ing thing was for everything that I research, because I trying to find this, his behavior shop, I found all of my old behavior showing up um so huge discrepancies on like standardized testing where I might do like ninety eight and ninety ninety percent telling and everything versus like GPA or homework I didn't ever do home work. My G P S at two point seven um my that was curbed up because of the honors classes and A P classes. So my gb was horrible.

Um I had never like a teacher sign my assignment, no book and my parents signed IT also would get a detention because I was so bad doing homework. Um I didn't like to read. I would cry if I gotto sign reading for more than like a few pages.

I could never do IT. I'm a born high school. I used to do like I would do like Cliff notes and Spark notes and extended readings that I could avoid doing the actual ratio just like a unch really, really done behavior.

But I always think because I could play video against for sixteen hours, I must not have A D H D. Um and that's like one there that's three of like fifteen other different behaviors or like jesus Christ. So after I read all that I was like, okay, forget my son.

I guess if I to believe the issues real, my son probably has IT so he got medication IT helped him a time for school and he's looking to stand and it's help to attend for school. Seven years later, think about like five or six months ago, I ve got a friend that staying with me and he suggests is like, listen, everybody knows he is like a family bonds like, yeah. But everybody, everybody is like whatever.

And SHE is out of all and so you should just try this for like a week and I like, okay fuck why not sure um and I enjoy recreational drugs. I tried the at all and for the first like two or three days I was definitely like effet mine high. okay.

I don't know if you've like done effet mine regret is just like it's like a you forget you feel so good. You're like going a good mood. You're super heavy on my okay, this is cool but like i'm fucked in high.

I know what I like, anything I feel like um and then on day for the euphoria, the the like effect ma an eur a like doing a drug regulation ally basically disappeared um and then when I want to stream us up, I noticed that I could pay attention to what I was doing without having have a game going on the background, which was a really huge departure because you've ever watching the old video. So am I always like playing mine crap, playing video inst something while watching a video. But I could just sit and like read stuff and then I noticed over the next week that was like, holy shit, I have reserved red like four hours a day.

I could just sit and read and read and read and i'm retaining the information and I don't feel like to do million other things. And that's basically after that I was like, fucker, I wonder a thera very easily. I got A H diagnosis because of my childhood stuff and then I got a description. And yeah, I don't think the advance is um it's it's an effect mine similar to atall OK.

Bit more powerful, bit less powerful, bit more something .

else at all as a combination of four different effects. Insults, vivanco of was effected me. insults. But it's got an attachment of another molecule that makes you digested slowly so that IT like is an extended release ephebi y basically a it's it's list dextra effet mine or list dept. Amy, a license attachment to a dextra mine thing. And then when you eat your body, I think you deliver pulls off the licensing and then you get the slow get .

time release version. A similar is something that you presumably you denial research to work out what IT was that you would have preferred to have had.

Um the other basically the other option is at all x basically I think right um yeah but yeah for the past four, five months i've learned like the entire history of a palestine. I've read like hundred page papers are like legal theory of from my debate with a Green wall i'm able to research and retain information and be interested and I have to play like basically a single game in like almost half year in like four, five months. Um IT is dramatically changed my engaging with the world and like an unbelievable way.

So James, my business boundaries netty ic had the adult diagnosis A D H D as well. And what does that do you know you're a person who thinks that you know who you are. You've been you for like working thirty five years of some shit like.

You thought that you knew the landscape of your own mind, who you were and and this is me, Stephen, out in the world. And then someone comes along and kind of says, what this is a part of you that you haven't been able to fully understand. Does that change your sense of self?

I think that my whole life, and I think this probably happens as everybody is older, i'm sure it's happened to you. You the smartest age that you ever are is nineteen because you know everything, you know every.

If I i've always joked that like if I go back maybe with you so that I could go back in time and talk to my I couldn't believe anything I would have to say even if I knew I was coming from the future era yeah because the nineteen and twenty, you know everything. One of things i've learned, i've got older. A subjective experiences are very, very hard.

understand. I D try to be really careful when I speak about other people's subjective experiences. And your mind and how you relate to the world is another one of those subjective experiences.

So I guess in my mind, and it's funy, because I came across a lot with a staff that hd IT can be simultaneously like overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed the same time to wear if somebody is just like either lazy or has an attention problem or whatever the fuck, because IT for variety reasons, they might get an A D SHE diagnosis. But if somebody has A D H D um they might feel so like my feelings are like if I just focus, I know I can do this and you're a lazy I pia. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to fucking just stay on task for three hours.

Everybody can do this. There's no reason I can do this, right? Um and my my feeling is that like i'm probably just more lazy than the average person, and so that's why. But then after you doing a lot of reading and then taking like a pill for a little bit, and I like, okay, will shit I one of this is like the ordinary mind, or if this is more closer to the subjective of other people yeah just makes me.

does that change your theory of mind about other people? I, if you know your long basting yourself, basically saying you should be more discipline than this, you should be able to stay focused. Why can't you just do this thing without getting distracted every two minutes, or without going to play video game, or without a at three video screens open at once?

You know, that's an internal monologue that you've eventuated. It's a very well one path. I'm just fascinated by people that have like, oh, I know I have a very different story that I tell myself about why I am the way I am and what that means and why that could be the way yeah IT IT seems like a huge pivot yeah I mean.

I just try I try to be open to everything um maybe there's something that all know dramatically shake my subject of interpretation myself in the future. But i'd rather be more open to IT than more closed to IT because I want to feel like a making progress towards a Better version of myself rather than like, well, I have figured that out when i'm twenty and not not going to change my feelings at all and I know there's a lot of things that I screw off the norm for like I remember when I was like twenty, twenty one, twenty two.

Like if you would ever come to me know, I would be like from twenty two to twenty five on streaming, people would asked me questions like, oh, like, I got to talk to lam dad. Like, what should I do? And my answers was very simple, you just kind, never talk him again and so easy.

Why would you? Why would you maintain toxic relationship with your parents? What a stupid thing to do like that so dumb. But then as i've got like, okay.

do people have feelings of other family?

And it's pretty obvious that most people's feelings are way off of where mine are. So it's pretty stupid of me to suggest something for other people and assume that, you know, it's the same thing for everybody. So I just try to be really aware of the difference, productive experiences that people can have and that might might change in the future too, because I don't get locked .

on some dumb b shadier. Yes, I felt quite bad watching. I didn't reach out because there was enough people doing that already, but I felt quite bad watching the entire internet kind of scrutinised your .

relationship over the .

last few divorce of yeah like I know that you appear as like this sort of emotional punching bag, stoic, fucked in brick. Well, everything is super transparent and everyone knows kind of everything that's going on and you have a capacity to be able to deal with just comfort. That seems to be like, I know, beyond earning outside of the norm.

But that made me they made me feel uncomfortable like watching everybody else I like to have fucking like this intimate part of a downfall of relationship online. So I imagine that like rolling with a fucking in adhd diagnosis plus changing the chemical structure of your mind um like that's what I mean. Like the last twelve months.

I was a lot for sure. I member, yeah, I was a lot. I scale back on my last prescription tion request. I scale back a little bit of my just my vision. I noticed my because I wear these stupid things to track, like through my dreams of my heart rate, my dressing hard rate had risen like seventeen beats per minute that a lot in two months.

And in the research that I did, I think that the average heart rate elevation for somebody on ephah timing, I think, was four point nine bees permanent over a whole lifetime of, like doing these infected. So reminded her reason, almost twenty and two, like, holy shit, my something to something is exploding. And I don't know this possible medication, but but now is all solo.

And I realized was probably just that period of like a lot of like stress that i'm dealing with for my own relationship from like the public stuff and you've got to keep streaming through everything and then like the rear of the debates, everything yeah a lot to deal with. But now yeah was definitely physiologically IT was definitely tough, but I always felt I have the tools to deal with everything. Um and in some ways there are there are parts of my life that look incredibly difficult.

They are actually make things so much easier for me. I talk with part of the legs. I talk with a lot of people that are more behind the scenes about this because a lot of people look at my life and like, it's got to be so fucking hard to have your relationship and everything else like out front and center for all these people to dissect.

And my thought is, is going to be so fucking in hard to try to keep that secret. Oh my god, because if you try to keep things secret, you, it's got to be so scary every day on the internet. Something might get lead, somebody might find something out.

And now you've gotta try to forget how defend this without revealing too much. And what do I say? What for me there is the added stressed. When everything's public, everybody can comment on IT.

But it's also like, this is IT. no.

yeah. And you also, you see what you get like there's never been a time in my fifteen years or something as leaked of me was like, oh my god, that's the real duty he does this behind. That's what's going to never happen. Like you basically you get what you say ah which in some ways .

makes things easier for me a lot yeah will you do the same thing when next relationship was around? Or you have you got um maybe we don't need to go quite a public with stuff. If you got have you got a strategy for that?

I think not being really, really, really critical of who I would select next. Like i've got like a whole list of criteria that i'm like writing down and evaluating for people because I try to figure like what works thousand. I've got like my access on this like blister criterion and like what would have work to what didn't work or blob a blaw.

I don't know i'll ever be dating again or forget married what that looks like, just because my life is so crazy. If I do do another relationship, IT would probably be another open one. I do do another relationship is probably going to end because most relationship, and when IT does everybody, if the rapper service power will say, well, IT ended because it's an open relationship despite the fact that I had form I I S relations with this that all ended for a right reasons. But yeah, I mean, will say if I that are not again just depends but my life was a really crazy, really busy and it's hard to slap anything in there.

Yes yeah not dating again as A I don't know like I wonder I wonder what will happen when you're further outside of the blast radius of your most recent like fucking in so motion car crash public coco ash thing is a lot for at the other .

person to deal what that's the issue. So you have to find somebody that is willing to do with all the public stuff, probably somebody that works on content creation um because others SE. It's hard to explain this world to like a Normal human being.

Allow me to step you into this world that you didn't choose, that you don't really understand and .

how do I make you understand why there's like a whole form of people that obsess over every time you turn your you know discord on or off or people I try to figure like what our addresses or why people say i'm a pedophile or why you know this guy, why is IT today that muslims are trying to your dress to go and you had you and like, that's a lot for an ordinary person to be rought.

I think that is a lot for ordinary person to be brought into yeah speaking of that, assumed I know nothing about the vosh scenario picks. Essentially I don't, but I know that there's been stuff that you've been at least commenting on. What's the thirty thousand foot view of the last few weeks?

Hey, being terrible to him at all. But what's happened is, is vosh has made a collection of fairly edge statements in his past that on their own or all I would say probably defensible um but taken collectively against people that don't like him can present a very compelling narrative that he was like a pedophile basically so like I think for essence there is like an argument before relating to why he didn't he was. I wish go to america.

I don't want to miscalled this because the point to get the exact wording right so I could be miss quoting. You can go find the way if you want. But I think he was in an argument where he was like he was something like in a very easy way like I don't know why people care so much about child porn because the harm created children. But we're okay buying and having things every single day that are made by children sweatshops where they kill themselves um but then people will hear them than that like oh wait, so you want to make child point legal but his argument was really well know we should probably make sweet PS illegal, but IT is just like a bunch of stuff like that that's piled of overtime and then so that's like the factual foundation and then the retorted foundation or the um content direction foundation.

SHE very intentionally isolated himself from the rest of the world and he conduct himself in an incredibly aggressive bullying way so he doesn't really have anybody in his corner to defend him or to lend him any credibility because he's made enemies of anybody that that would be friends with him and he's been incredibly uncharitable, everybody else in his part of the world so he came to myself i'm not really ah I don't feel very much sympathy might feel sympathy of hypothetic statements to get blown up because i've made like a lot of statements that are hybrid wn up. But I don't feel sympathetic that this is what he has to go there right now because yeah he he says completely actually on two things about me all the bucking time. And now watching IT come back by him and the action had to have nobody in his counter defend IT is really funny.

Exactly IT doesn't surprise me, at least I certainly see. Looking at the world of streaming, you guys put an AA lot of hours in. That in itself just practically gets you out of the way of being able to spend time socially just doing stuff. And then because so much of IT is on its own, are you do streams with that.

The people sometimes, right, like maybe like a good bit at the time but so many streamers are just spending hours and hours and hours and hours just them and a camera and A A screen and IT seems like of all of the different content creation methods. It's the one that is the most al isolationist, like it's that and then only worse than that of those people that trying like rebuild ghost towns on like in fucking Greenland or something like that. Those are the tube that are the worst. So yeah, I mean, I have I have A A great degree of sympathy for streamers overall because it's a rough job, not as much as to say to harder job than like being a brick rea was a retail.

I know you think about her son, right? Yeah.

you know that hot.

That's another fun example where I actually, and i've given the same thing in the past. Her son was one hundred percent correct in his assessment, in a statement he just said in kind of a bad way, but he does have anybody defend him either. And it's not exit. Blame my community completely for that clip blowing up.

But i'm willing to bet that you would agree with the entire concerto, the state and that what we do for work right now in ways that can be more sold stronger can be more difficult than jobs work prior to this um just because of all the added stresses and all the added things are going on. But you're compensated generously for and you have a greater degree of autonomy exactly. And that's always the big difference. Like a mcDonald worker in a second would step into my life. I would never step back into working, dont ever.

So even if there are more chAllenges and and more soldiering aspects of this job, which there are, if I get a divorce in mcDonalds worker, I don't know, to deal with seventy five year old fucking rollo to mosi, you know, making arguments about why this mcDonalds worker broke, like I want to deal with that I have to worry about like fucking nude pictures leaking or everybody having an an opinion on some show I said, but I make a hundred times is the money that I did when I want and I could choose every part of my life so sad. Did have a point but man for him, the socialist guy that lives in a four million dollar mansion as the two fifty thousand dollar porch and flies and private jets in one thousand outfits that sounds horrible coming from him, obtains are a big deal. And fuck him, are not defending him because, yeah, that was his fault. I could have been a big defender of him on that because I love defending takes like that because they're technical correct, but they're optically horrible.

And those are my favorite things to defended, you know? Yeah, I know I did a video which is still up on the channel. I think something like what no one tells you about working .

for yourself and share. Yes, that's the same.

It's all of the thing. It's all of the points. If you are both the uh, organ grand, the monkey, if you're both the task master and the worker, there is always in the back of your mind.

Is this the best thing that I could be doing with my time? So not only you need to design what you have to do, you then need to discipline yourself to go and do IT and then you need to go and do IT and then need to review and question whether or not that's the thing that you're exposed to do. And even when you're away on holiday list, whatever that even means is always this degree of I could be working a little bit more and then work beginning to bleed into leasure time.

So there is this huge, big, long list. And someone brought you up on A Q N A A couple of weeks ago where they said lots of people in the personal development finance space are disparate ging about ninety fives, but actually really love my five. And I feel a bit bad because i'm like a second class citizen for liking this like cooked job.

I'm type thing. Um why do you think people have such bad opinions about IT and not as a first of great point, secondary IT made me realized i've never disparage ge ninety five. And like like if you can find a way to be able to work for yourself, I think it's A A reliable route towards having a fun life that you're probably going to enjoy, but it's not the only route. But I know tons of people that have nine to five that perfectly happy lives here.

And there are all of these other side effects that come along with IT, like having to be the person that what when you're going to get up today, how long you're going to stream for who you choose? And if you don't stream for long enough, who says when enough is done? Like what's the rules around this? How hard do you supose to work? How well be all of that gets externalized when you got a job which is deliberating? And it's just what's your personality, what your previous position, what do you want?

People have an inability. Sometimes you just like analytic the person constantly to be fully good or fully bad. I don't know if this would be A A huge, ponderous agreement for us, but you do like a little like health fit stuff, right?

Yeah like like a position that I have relating to like food is I don't think there is no such thing is like a good food or bad food. Food just do different things. If you got like a sugar y color bar, like like a Candy bar that he was like any cars ever, that's all that is energy for the day, high in sugar.

Like that's what is necessarily a bad thing. You've hit all your micros matters of the day. You need four hundred more calories you want you if I can kick up IT works, right?

There's notions like a holy good food or a holy bad food, something super hand vitam, whatever. Doesn't matter if if you can serve for whatever reason or if you're not deficient in IT like there's no talking point. IT is what IT is like.

Understand the process on to exactly yeah and I think when IT comes like ninety fives or entrepreneurship is the same thing or would like renting or buying a house yeah poison constant both of these things right i'm a millionaire. I don't well, I own house with my relevant I don't a house first like I live apartments. I'm probably to live in apartments with that is like ten years.

Let me buy hours and settle down somewhere. But people would think that like, once you ve got money, the most important by how do you want to set your money on fire, are not setting my money on fire when in an apartment anyway, then I set my money on fire when I go to a restaurant and buy food, like i'm literally paying for something that i'm going to shed out my toilet later. But that's not wasted.

My money are getting a me a lot of IT sending i'm running an apartment are not wasted my money i'm paying for a places sleep, believe every day. Um there are super big pros to entrepreneur ship if you've got the mind for an entrepreneur and not mean the mind like you're smart and now I am the direction, the uncertain ty wes. And yeah, not everybody enjoys that in nine device. I've known people that have stepped into the internship and I go back to the nine device like, listen, I can find all the hobby thing I want to do with my one of five and I don't have to worry about, know where's my paycheck are going to come from. Is this going to be a slow month for me ah if yeah so yeah there's present constant and the demonization of like ninety fives and you're fucking loser because you're not a rapper or because you're not a small business owner or because you're not a fucking you know super star streamer youtube or like not fuckyou, you can do whatever you wanted just yeah figure you figure out .

what works at the person onto real yeah I I think that's that's good and that's not something that i've heard a lot about like you know championing. It's part of this disparagement. I think that we're on the same page that you're relatively pro college as well.

I'm super procol a but if you think you've got a Better path besides that, then then yeah, by all means go for IT. But you, for all these people, fuck all these people will complain about the deep state, the politicians, the lobbies and the bill gates and ba ba, blah. When you look at all these people that you think of rid the world and they're corrupting, what do they send their kids? They're not bill gates and tell his children like, oh, you're not and you're not going to call.

They all sent to fucked in ivy league schools.

They are sent to the best schools. I. Think that like all of .

they'd figured out when you look at the Steve jobs didn't give its kids ipad type argument, which is be aware of what the lifestyles and technologies are of the people who are in power. And if the people who are empower are sending their kids university is like, if you just want to model what they are doing, they have got skin the game with regards that yeah for me, I mean, you know I don't disagree. I'd learned basically zero when I went to university, but had great life experiences. And IT taught me in all a lot was like IT, was like navy seal hel week for five years of socialization of, you know, you need to learn what it's like to get drunk and lose your keys in manchester or and have an argument with your friend three in the morning, you need to learn what it's like to have an argument with A A, A house mate where you can just request from the university that you move flats like that, all of those things. When are you going to learn that twenty five thirty .

part of transitioning ing into adult?

yes. So I just I think IT prepares people and but I understand that you know, it's all a big scam. No one learns anything that's important. And in an ideal world, yes.

Would higher education actually educate you effectively, along with giving me the life skills probably, but over the two that like I would give IT fifty, fifty for what you come and maybe even more on the life skills side of things to be a, okay, well, what's IT like to um have your attendance to be so low that maybe you going to get kicked out of university because that might happen with a job in a couple of years. The time when your ill or some other like like administrative fucker happens is at the first time that you going to ever encounter something like this. No, like you can get to do with lower stakes and move through that steps. So yeah.

people have this weird thing with like well as just people should be waste our time on humanity. And english degrees, like the majority of degrees, people from colleges are M G.

business and marketing. And i've got two degrees, one of which is a masters can't remember anything from I drove them try like I might as well. I've done women studies chair.

yes, or all the people. I think it's like I bonus is like fifty percent of people get stem degrees anyway like they probably needed IT if you want to.

I think it's a really hyper centage somebody please look up.

but it's it's a really high percentage. I think you might have been over a the degrees are uh, stem related degrees anyway like that the vast majority of people go to school for or that. But I think people have this impression.

like eighty five .

percent of college students are human yeah. And that also too, and again, a moderated position, like there are ways to do IT intelligence tly. Like people say no to college, get one hundred thousand and debt.

You don't two hundred thousand. That's not the average student one. There is one hundred thousand dollars and like like twenty eight thousand dollars or something, it's not one hundred thousand hours. Also, if you want to go to community calls for two years or do this, I really like there ways to make IT more manageable as well.

You know you can be smart about you have to go all in and be an idiot um it's just the my the scary thing for me, heavily antidotal by the way. The scarious thing for me is that when people say, forget college, don't do that, in my mind, the people that don't need to go to college know that there isn't a guy who's got this huge portfolio projects that he's worked on, that scotland, all this knowledge is eighteen. And he like, god, fuck, do I need to go and get a composite degree? And baba, he knows what he's going to do.

You know, people point to bill gates is like bill gates didn't go, bilk didn't fail or media english OK. Bill gates didn't not go to college because he couldn't get a fucking G. E. D.

okay? Bill gates did not go to college because he thought he was going to make a big trading fucking in crypto. O, okay. That these are not the same comparisons. So if you don't know what you're going to do when you ve got to get a general, yeah go to college, get your degree, do that but don't tell people like, you know don't go to college like the universe has something grand planned for you because mostly these people are going, you know fuck around the drop shipping on the internet for a year and a half, hook up with the chicken and get a pregnant and then the rest of their life is going to be retailer service, you know, starting at twenty one because they just didn't .

really have strong liberation yeah. What do you think is going to happen in november election time?

I my belief for a while I spend that I think that I think biden is gonna win. I think it's going to win pretty handy. Ah my feeling for that is because I think the biggest thing that was going to hurt him was going to be the economy, but I think that the sentiment on that has already adjust a pretty heavily and I don't see IT going down.

I think that we're on a huge upshooting right now economically um and the fed is even talking about considering dropping great forever. So if the economy is fine um foreign icy wise, it's just ukraine and israel it's funny people give by and a lot of shoot on reign policy. But if you compare a foreign policy aims right now compared to what they were under trump, our involvement is way Better.

I think that israel and palestine, that's a worthy thing to be involved in. If we're all the reason to restrain israel and ukraine, russia, that's a worthy thing to be involved in. We're not in afghanistan anymore.

We're not an iraq more bite and ended the uh participation in the saudi ID coalition to go fucking drone strike yemen all the time, right? The strikes that we are doing in yemen are very specifically on missiles. Bling about that.

That's good. I think that the forest n policy stuff is is good, even people trying to make IT into a thing. I think domestically, I think our economy is good.

The border is an issue. IT always is an issue. But I don't think republicans can yet the illegal immigrant train for you know seven months, whatever. I think that they probably pulled that one too early. Um so I just basically brought this thing.

And I think the road to the elections and all of the special elections that have gone on over the past couple years have been really for democrats. So I think as long I think the road forward for biden is pretty safe. As long as he doesn't, his brain does not get very serious. Pretty safe.

That's a big if that's a big f perdona.

Trump though he's got all of these indepth. He's got the new york case that is I think they're going to start that one in march. Um the new york cases where he was making he was getting coin to make payments to Daniel uh the hush payments basically which is kind of looks bad, the porn star fucking cheer in his wife and all that so you've got like all the news of the entitled stuff you ve got whatever a crazy shit that trump says. Abortion is still really fresh on people's minds and now you've getting more stories about .

like crazy last fresher people's mind.

I think so. Um i'm basing this on opinion polling and I was with my community uh doing go knocking in ohio for like get out the vote stuff. And as you go around and I I always try to do at least one days that I can like the experience and talk people, I was really surprised at how many people when I knocked on doors. There are the two issues that everybody always brought up were protecting democracy, which seems like shit would have on twitter, and everyone was abortion.

Every sort of people is this a abroad cross section? All the people.

Younger people, that is all the people you're knocking on doors in um since in at ohio of likely redder, both basically making sure that there are still regis know about the upcoming question. Yeah um so I think abortion is going to be a big driver. I don't think like the afghanistan pull out.

I don't think that's gona be a big negative driver. I think that happened and whatever um yeah that's my broad view. I think the road ahead for biot is pretty easy as long as he maintains okay.

And I think the road ahead for trump, I don't see IT getting Better because he's not in office. There's no way that he can do something good, and there's a lot of potential pit falls coming up that could be really scary. Yeah.

how big of a deal do you think what's going on at the border is i've had a number of conversations about this. IT does seem like a really big catastrophe.

I mean, IT always does like republicans is .

feel like big catastrophe at the stats around this like you tend to have some yeah i've seen numbers is .

hard to know because like they always change uh, like how they count some things like I think of the obama administration like they were changing how they consider like a deportation ended up being like somebody that was met at the border and turned away. This weird things are gone with the numbers all the time.

I agree that the border is a problem, but I don't believe that it's like a uniquely felt problem that's having a drastically negative impact on the average life. I don't think that that's happening. So it's a problem because the media says it's a problem and because people want IT to be a problem the republicans do for a good reason because IT probably is strength to have electorally.

But only the countries is falling apart, or like crazy should is happening because of stuff falling on the border. But democrats do you need to find a way to deal with that, although right now, the things that suck is that one does not. Trump had coffee which helped a lot because he was able to do um was a title two title forty nine um they basically said because when a state of emergency I can enact crazy measures at the border and people just won a legal immigrating as much because of covet so he had a huge benefit to his last uh time in .

office because of covet .

and then when biting came in .

because he got covered no no because because of covered right it's because he .

got was like you being ill as the president unable to and then the other people coming to the border now is a lot higher as a percentage of light turn away and everything the by administration is doing Better than the. Trumpet administration, but there's such a greater number of people there to deal with.

This is a difficult problem. Apparently, that is the rumors that i've heard because they know that biden is going to be soft on them.

People say that, and i'm curious where the truth is in that people say so IT is true that more illegal immigrants come to the border when a democrat is an office. But i'm curious, is IT because democrats want to let them in, or is because the republicans say that democrats let them in? Because remember, huma herri is favorite thing of like, do not come, do not come one thing that the immigrants do not come.

But that was a funny meme of her. Yeah, we're saying that and I sound like they don't let you in just because it's a democratic ice. I don't think it's a meaningful change in border policy with with the demand office over republican. But if you say enough, I don't know. Maybe that's why people do comment.

right? OK. This is like the shadows on the wall, but the shadows have been created by the republicans. So the republicans could be advertising the weakness of democratic migration policy. And that is what he's being taken by people which .

are the most part is about the same other bitten as IT was for trump. They ended like certain types of like family separation of borders. But nothing, I don't think anything meaningful has changed between a trumped by. But so i'm curious, like I haven't seen statements, and I fully admit, because I been doing as policing stuff and the rebels of I vento follow this is you as classes, but I haven't seen a bit of statements from democratic lawmakers were like, we want the immigrants to come to the border, please calm like illegal, if we're going to be software on them, we're going to do something to let these immigrants in babb. I've never had I heard a lot of republican saying that some curious.

like what the statements they are very interesting yeah the difference between being a like effective in terms of rta c and effective in terms of the impact that actually has on the world because IT could be creating the second one while trying to achieve the first one. Yeah what I mean, every election cycle has been something that being timed quite well. Emails for hilly and by laptop story, i'm kind of waiting after .

a thing or .

do there is gonna a thing that has to be it's like i'd know if you remember when lost the T. V show you have watch that.

remember, lost, I never watch.

Just know you always knew that the season finale was going to finish on a car hanger. Oh my god, what's the car hanger going to be? And IT feels like that now. But this is the problem, blowing the line between entertainment and politics that I shouldn't be waiting for the next election cycle to come around. And for whatever the regulatory story is like, i'm about to see prison break season three finish IT should be treated with a little bit more like seriousness.

I think the issue is both of these guys have been investigated quite a bit and by both of these guys, I mean hunter biden and a Donald trump um so I know know anything new IT doesn't seem like we're getting much new about hunter.

The well on both sides well .

the but the problem is on hunter bite inside. I think that's probably true because especially now that this confidential informed was heavily.

I don't think that I would be just hunted about. And I think that there will .

be something I don't know of saying tells of what could leak. I feel like for a lot of a hundred bands self, we milk this cow. Yes, but the problem is for trump, we potentially have new wells of information because of the ongoing court cases that gives you a novl ability to reach in through investigative power, through discovery, through criminal entitled, through trial to reveal, stop that never bend reveal before .

he is a statement of some kind. He is court recording.

like for the j six commission. Um a lot of the people near trump pleaded up planned executive privilege. I don't have to say what I said because this is to the present united states which works in front of congressional committee, doesn't work in front of a uh.

criminal proceeding please like .

playing the fifth, but it's that didn't work in a lot of the like the jack Smith federal investigation cases. So IT could be that there is more stuff that could come out. Or as this stuff is continually brought to the forefront of american minds, they have like a slightly bless favorite able view of Donald mp. Because I do find, for instance, for a lot of the Donald trump p cases, when a lot of republicans or even democrat just don't know any of the facts and when you present a lot of the fact they're defensible, I even close. It's like unhinged in same shit um so I don't know how much that will affect things but also democrat have been yanking on the you know Donald trip is doing a legal stuff were going to get them chain for four years and we didn't seem like much came out of that forty eight years ago yeah so who knows I know I ten thousand hours on finance will see what happens.

What do you think about vic from a swaning, the trump long guy .

that dropped out because he realized he has no political future because he just served to, yeah, be a trumkard a popularity. A, B.

Him, yeah. We think about him. I don't. Yeah, okay. yeah. What was an interesting one, I think, but someone that Young, just generally Young at all, that's involved in american politics just stands out.

Young is cool, but he talks like a salesman. I feel like every time I was talking, I was taking a pitch for like a new .

dice vacuum cleaner. Well, is the degree of that no matter what industry and whether it's in content creation or or or politics or or media or anything, there is a swing at the moment toward as much authenticity, as much relative ability as possible.

I guess that cause back into what you are saying about the openness and henley around relationships and dating and fucking and adult adhd diagnosis, all of these different things just being open and honest about them, allow people to find. Areas of your story or anybody is story to like hook into and go that that's kind of like me, that's like my sister, that's like my best friend, that's like my whatever. Uh, people are the problem with the rocks.

A appearance on rogan because they said IT was, he kind of seemed very created and IT was super, super smooth. And all of this and what they wanted was, you like, who's the man behind all of that? Yeah, precisely.

Like, I want to speak to join. I don't want to speak to the rock now. And I I think people felt like they didn't they didn't really necessarily get that. And then I think that took a colson and putin. That interview was just like the same thing was like we got a very well created orchestra like accurate performance by putin, and we'd never really get to see anything that was real.

But yeah, one issue that I have with people is somebody being genuine is not necessarily a good character trade. And people overrate that too much people can be genuine and be a bad person, a genuinely bad person. But people will give a lot of people credit just because they're genuine.

Okay, sure. Like this person might be genuine, but that doesn't that's not necessarily a good thing or necessarily but thing like they could just be really bad like that could be a but genuinely bad person. And I reminds me of them for a lot of debate that I do.

I got to say this, I is going to happen under this fucking video. No, not as much disagree as much when I debate people that I disagree with. I'm very regally careful.

But I present myself, I don't want to come office to argumentative or to destructive the conversation, and I want to be constructive. I want to be somebody agreeable and finding coming ground. But you bick lousy under the every single on these videos.

This is a great conversation. I love that two people are talking and they're not shouting. Okay, that is true. But like come on the conversation now okay, just because we're talking and were being agreeable doesn't mean it's necessarily good conversation. That's a good first hurle to get over but now talk like a very way the conversation. So yeah and I finally that happens that same thing happens with a genuine part of like oh i'd like this guy because he's genuine like genuinely evil, genuinely an ahle like that's not a ah IT reminds you i'm so some of so I have you ever made a person in real life big red flag by the way if you have ever met a person in real life and you like, oh, why don't people like you was gone I guess i'm just too honest. No, it's something too onest .

you that's all yes, I remember when I was in school, there was a kids that would misbehave or whatever, and there would be like extra dispensation given by the teachers to the kids that were naughty, you know, there were the ones that were always disrupting class or weren't hiding homeworking. And I went doing whatever. And then me is one of the nerds.

I would be held to a highest standard if I misbehaved in class. I would feel like I got picked out by the teacher and told like that I shouldn't be doing whatever. And my hung a second, he just like, fuck, like, kick T A bin.

And you didn't you just sort of went over and like quietly told them to do that. And I always used to feel um I always used used to fill, in fact, that like the people that were able to behave were held to a highest standard than the people who weren't able to behave. And I guess it's kind of like this.

I like that you can be yourself if yourself is being an also then like that doesn't make you more virtuous. Yeah that being said is IT Better for somebody to be a genuine aso a lying like virtuous individual? Yeah, I guess I just depends .

on what the lying thing means. And that's a really hard thing personally to sark through for an individual, and it's a hard thing to sort through and how you evaluate other people.

So like Frances.

I let's say that I meaning a girlfriend's family okay, i'm not going to that dinner is destiny okay? I'm not going to making A G jokes about how much money would you accept to fuck a dog, you know, every single night if you were getting paid money that's not going to come up in that family conversation. Okay, i'm going to be respectful.

I'm going to ask questions about the families job. Be like on my best behavior and I being a fake fuck by doing that and I being discontinuous, I wouldn't say so. I think that you wear different hearts depending on you're talking to. The issue comes from, are you communicating things that don't comport with your core values when you're talking to somebody else, right? So if I, if I, you know, if I always mean the girls parents and they were racist and they asked me that you agree that like, black people are lazy and I like, yeah I guess they are, that's a problem, right? Assuming that you don't actually think that because now you're violate in corpora al core values, I find that a lot of time when people are criticizing people for being not genuine is just because they they're like wearing a different hat, not necessarily because they're like lying or or misrepresenting themselves. But yeah, that's a hard one to sort through anyway because some people might think that their long are misrepresenting themselves.

It's not like we and our nature and the way that we present ourselves are transparent ourselves either sure a lot of the time we get skilled or manipulated just by the situation. We just I got caught up. I was talking to such, such a person, and I was tired.

I wanted them to like me or I didn't mean to say xy as that, but this is kind of going back to what you said at the very beginning, which is like giving people a little bit more Grace, like hoping, hoping for the best in people in believing like luck. I think that if I was you, I would act the way that you are. I don't think that most people are evil.

I think they're trying to do good. Like just starting from a place of a more gentleman, I suppose, and a little bit more gentle, Stephen A A little bit more um room, giving people a little bit more room and hoping that they can come along for the ride. Ah that seems like a much easy way, a much nice way to live life.

I can be up, but it's not much going to watch. No, the guys. So people's fault sometimes because the of the type of content that they consume, that the direction that the content has, when not in this media landscape, because the jews pushed us here, or because there was an all right conspiracy, or because the vote cards got to here, we have the media landscape we do today, because is what we enjoy watching. And we definitely feel like.

yeah, we got, we put a clump up from the peer Morgan interview, and IT was a clashing with peers Morgan over alcohol and going sober. He said that sometimes people that go so, but can be boring. I said that that assumes the people who drink are interesting. And we went back in fourth and there .

was a bunch of coming. He made the argument that alcohol licks that get sober could be boring.

not necessarily alcoholics, but that, uh, I was saying, I went sober a good chunk of my twenties and found IT was good for not being hung over once every week or once every two weeks. I got more productive and made changes in my life. And like gay subari, even I didn't drink that much.

And he said, well, do you not find that if you do that, you just going to be round. People that are boring and like that assumes that people who drink are interesting. So we had a little bit of a back and forth on that.

And he grow up in a pub and he said, like i've seen that that helps people to come out of their skin. And you know, some people are a little bit socially anxious and so is so fast as well. That also kind of shows that the people that around the friends that you're around, you need to sedate yourself in order to be yourself with them, so you need to find Better friends.

The issue isn't that you need alcohol, it's that you need friends that can help you to be yourself around them. And I don't think that alcohol, I think alcohol actually asking a lot of those problems. And many people haven't not had a drink, especially in the U. K.

Like classic working classes culture, haven't not had a drink since they were fifteen or something in to the longest time they went from when they first ever had one to now was two weeks, and they don't ever think, but theyll be concerned about whether I am not creating or A K or artificial sweetness or something getting them. Meanwhile, they are putting like a reliable poison into themselves. And I love me some alcohol too, like I was a couple of fifteen years.

I'm apart of IT and just trying to thread that needle anyway that we titled the episodes clashing with peers Morgan over algo on going sober something. And like so many people that comes like this wasn't a clash. Where's the clashing? This isn't.

I'm like what OK fuck debating peers, Morgan but like you fucked IT you click on IT like you click on IT so what is IT what what's the game that you want content creators to play? Like you is IT click bid if your interpretation or the threshold I have for clashing is this. And the thresh that you meet for debating is that and this is.

this would be the part to wear. I'm critical of audiences, but I don't know how much the culture can change there. This is the part where I would shoot my critical list than to content creators.

And I think the left is had a huge problem. This for a long time. I think the left for a long time assumed that you just can't defend left leaning ideas because right inning ideas are too easy.

Like it's easier to just say, like a firmament action bad because it's racist versus what how do you defend a firmament action? But I think that something way different is happened. I think that people on the right, I spent a really good chunk of time figuring ing how to make their ideas entertaining and fun and funny. And people in the laugh just assume that like, well, we're right and is difficult. So fuck you, you either get to to you down .

and i'm not going to see him edge.

It's quite the test IT was very, very, very latest job. So I think is a content creator, you have a responsibility to two different things. You do have a responsibility to be factually correct into not premium tion.

I think you also do have a responsibility. Be entertaining and funny. You know, for all the theories on trump, I have one bullshit theory that. I genuinely believe that a huge chunk, i'm going to say, forty five percent of trump s success goes back to all the way back to the repel step in the game.

I think he's a really funny guy, and I think that Carries him really far more than being genuine, more than whatever yeah the fact that when he goes on stage and he starts talking and he's funny, he can work a crowd really well. A lot of people known from the apprentice where he was like almost univerSally liked to pretty share those popular reality T. V.

shows. And the prince, everything is a funny dude is tweet for fucking and hilarious. But if you were on the left or the right, and I think that actually goes really, really, really, really, really far and IT plugged into something that I thought funny enough, because people always bring up, you know, well, when is like you in high school? Because you were shored, you're under way.

You had bad acting. Am I going to high school? I always just stop the fact that i'm funny.

He makes everything work. I can literally talk to other huge groups of friends from different areas. I know talking to girls.

I didn't even know that five and what what guy even think about that because I can make you laugh like i'm good to go. And I think I think that is true for a Donald trump. A huge part of his success is just the fact that is funny.

And people were watching him for that rise and charm. A massively .

in the Price .

by because most of the time on the internet, at least with the like, performative autism hamad al seal box that almost everybody exists in, especially determined online people, it's never actually humor. They're not playing with wit and charm and interpersonal flow. What they are doing is trying to find some cutting sonic like we are dunk take, which isn't the same.

That doesn't come if you say that in person, in an interview or to a friend or on a debate IT sounds petty and IT sounds IT usually sounds quite demeaning and IT doesn't sound. Why is dog murry against milking gladwell when they were debating about, is independent media more important or Better than mainstream media? Whatever might be, Douglas got like three laps, big, relatively big laps, throughout the entirety of the conversation.

So guess what? He won. Like, he won in the hearts and minds of so many people. And the same thing goes first. This is what sahara said. If you do a debate and you get between two and three absolute singers when most of the room lacks, it's really hard to have lost that debate unless you've been absolutely sideswipe by all of the facts and everything else and you've look like an idiot outside of that like people like charm yeah and .

people will act like people who say things like, oh like that's why debates fake because people to go by who they d like more and ba blah, i'm sorry, but that is every single faster of your life. Every single faster of your life is going to be influenced heavily by how other people view you and how social you are with other people whether it's for a promotion at work or job performance, whether it's relationships with professors and college, whether it's um you know politics, how people like you.

whether this is a concreted the first gp of a table weight list at a restaurant.

whether it's how you relate to a significant other how many autistic guys or girls have you heard say something? I don't know why there's so fucking mad. I was one hundred percent correct. Some fucking matter. You know, matters. I know Better than any yeah that no matter how right you are in the conversation, people you don't know what i'm saying, you just care about how I say yeah no should they are about how you say there is a big difference between hey, i'm getting worried about you.

You're getting a little bit of late weight like let's do something like work out or eat Better versus like you're a fat fucking piece of shit and you don't lose fucking wet i'm going to divorce you those are two you might be communicating actually a similar thing but the delivery is is incredible, important. And the domus thing about this is people fucking know this. People know this is important because you know that the way that body communicate with you is going to influence how you perceive the message, how you take IT.

And you're going to get ratings when people are short or sark here. Yes, you a desire other people to ignore that doesn't extend to your enjoyment of other people being humor like full of human and funny like you are more than happy to be charmed by that guy or that girl that does that thing. And you like A, I really don't agree with most of what that particular content creator says, but something about the way that they communicate.

I just, I really, I really love the fact that a, that while he was dry and sad. Ic, I really love the fact that like destine makes like retail jokes. I really love the fact like X, Y, Z, like those things just cut through an awful lot of the biases and the and the Price and and meanwhile, you're saying to the world, no, no, no, you shouldn't give privilege to people that are entertaining and a funny yeah you can't get to have IT both ways and so many other.

I think john's do IT wasn't the smartest person in the media when he did the daily show. Know how many twenty years or whatever he was really funny was really .

a that's really, I don't know .

how funny is now sure, I just .

watch much. I saw, I saw one little bit of a monologue IT was him offering that black justice lady is like a black IT is like a black lady is the issue on the supreme court a guy.

oh my god, your time? I R. Thomas said, yes, yes. Was that the daily show? I thought that I was a Steven called bear.

My man, oh, maybe I can't .

remember. Officer.

I offering a 点 i year yeah.

to step down as a super car. Justice, just funny.

What's next? What you do next? What's the focus?

Um in two days I got a new excited to do that thinkers team debate um my conversations and uh now with them .

I want to D C I think for .

that um and the next month i'm trying to find because I started to vivants but past like four, five months of my stream have been a very research driven. I've taken like more notes and study on this thing, probably more than I have cumulative ly for everything else in my entire life so i'm trying to next month figure out like something a little bit more child do something more bite size, something more um like culturally relevant. So maybe to be like a research about like the border immigration is something but someone to keep my family is a little bit more engaged than me, literally reading the end of like books on streamers.

I hope that they won't enjoying the playing minecraft because that's going out of the window fully puts stay to all of your gaming content is a gaming streamer by taking a drug? Yeah but I think it's probably okay.

I think people like the political stuff more than i'm more focused on. I didn't make sure it's like relevant, entertaining and not like hard work. Deep dives on the history of light.

How did you find Jordan into? Personally, I don't know how much time you got to spend with them in terms of your debate and stuff.

And personally, he was fine ideologically he was about what I thought he would be, which just kind of disappointing. Surprised um I have this theory that people get broken by events and they never recover. A really good example of this, you know, who brought weinstein? Yes, I think is a perfect example of this. If you read the stuff that he was writing a talking about during the everly Green college fiasco, I thought that all of IT was unbelievably reasonable. I thought he seemed like a reasonable guy.

Everything is like cool but I think that event like broke his mind over the wheel and then now know he's on your rogan saying, I think thirteen million people have died probably from vaccines in the united states really I think for john, Peter and I think that was to c sixteen stuff um that like with the woke fighting whatever like people will have this moment, but they fight against the other side and is something of switch flips. And because they get attack by the site so much, they become entuned into the antithesis of that movement. And that's unfortunate because I think join this is had a lot of really incited things is about phillip hy, not philosophy, a little bit of selves, but mainly psychology that I really appreciate a listening to.

But now is just like all the, I feel just talking to random trump voter, like I think I was trying to bring up the frustrating, I think I thought up this idea of the conStellation of belief that people have. And I was funning because I think in this interview that we do, and like one minute when I bring a climate change, he brought up the W E F. I think like eating crickets, like the everybody will be poor but you don't own anything and you'll be happy. And um the population and twenty percent of europe is dying because of the vaccine. All the overhead does because of like to try to and IT just like um yeah but I when I see minds that he feels like they get captured because they become entrenched in the opposite of whoever bullied them last that just like a great waste potential for me and I feel like he suffers from what a bit I don't .

know whether those two guys have had that happen because of that situation. But I certainly know i'd last time that we were together I told you about the peak rule which is that uh every content creator is best known for their most uh well known transgression in the most recent on the joran would be like, he doesn't he hates transport and doesn't to say their names and he called ports illustrated models fat like his son would be.

He said that amErica is over nine eleven and he thinks that being a streamer is harder than I. Like everybody, every creator is captured by the biggest thing that they did and the most recent thing that they did. And that's definitely the way that they are interpret IT. And I can totally see I even see this in myself, like there's been a big change in scrutiny and attention and stuff over the last year and there's no media kit does no one throws a training manual at you to go, oh, and by the way, when you reach half a billion people a year, this is how you like, how you think about yourself, how you deal with attention, how you deal with criticism on the internet. And if you have a constitution like you, maybe that something that is a little be easy to do, but even for you, IT must be like on fucking out.

Like, I felt that this ambient folking visuals of A, A, A, A lot of people, and then if you have all of the way down the spectrum to the person that the most sensitive in the world, they're going to really struggle that even though that was unnecessary, what they ask for. But they did ask for IT because they decided to just do this thing and they keep going. And then you accumulate the audience.

All of that. I can completely see how one of the responses from people would be. All right, you've made me feel .

the world that .

I wanted to love me and validate me. Jilted me. Fuck you. I'm out. I'm never going to listen to you again. Your all shells are part of the W, E F, or you're all live todds are you all like, like, you're whatever, like, racist transformed c it's very easy to do that because you never have to deal with the unrequited love thing again. Now, ever.

Yeah, no, it's just frustrated because it's such a thought terminating view of the world. And then you end up losing your reasonable faculty to evaluate positions. And now you just bought into the opposite of whatever the other side side and just feels it's disappointing and done. I think yeah.

humans, humans is inconvenient a lot at the time because of other stuff that they could have done. Destiny, dude, appreciate men. Good luck with all the debates. And i'm not sure the next time you come through awesome, but we have to do barbecue and a training session .

or .

whatever IT is that you .

ve got on sound great. I look.