#759 - Mike Baker - The Hidden Secrets Threatening National Security
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What's happening? People, welcome back to the show. What my yesterday is mike Baker is a former C I, A officer and security expert, cofounder of global investigation company partner square group, and a pod caster were told that the world is on the brink of a large scale war, that our domestic systems of fragile and the people in charge are incompetent.

After decades in the CIA, mike should be able to tell us just how much truth there is here. Expect to learn the truth behind the A, T, and t outage, the problems with google's newest A I system, what most people do not understand about the C. I A, how history is being rewritten right in front of our eyes, what the future fare will look like, why the american border continues to be a huge problem. Mike, predictions on what will happen in the twenty, twenty four election and much more this episode is .

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Are you with A, T and t?

No, I am not. Yeah, was that was one of those moments. What happened? Uh, I think everybody thought I was into the world because they couldn't get on tiktok ers and the text message IT was IT was disaster with a couple of meetings at morning and people lose in their shit because know and and I was funny because everyone just sort of bAiling out of things. I think some people probably .

said as an waiting for the next views.

IT doesn't happen a lot. No, it's a good point. Now who knows? right? The frailty of of our come systems of delicate and and and our power grid and our water systems and everything else. If most people knew how easy that could actually happen, you know not even talking about a targeted attack, just just a going down because systems are all um they pray wouldn't sleep at night.

How so what do you mean? I say systems are all.

well, you look at, uh you look at the power grid and that thing was patched together, right, like a quilt over the years, right? We got three grids in the country, eastern, western and texas in the U S.

And a texas as I don't grit and um yes, so but IT was put together over over a long period of time, right? And never with the intention that I was going to have to stand up to some attack or really even with the idea that it's going out to understand some natural disaster, strange as that seems, you would think you would want to make a pretty resilient to that. Um so that's why you can drive by a substation, you know and reach out and touch IT. That's why you look at the award treatment facilities and think that doesn't particularly well protected. I mean, most of the infrastructure was never designed to withstand a physical tech and certainly not A A cyber attack .

because that wouldn't existed when I was .

first being not exactly exactly then. A lot of the equipment used for going back to the power grid, a lot of the major a gear that that runs the power grades, we don't even manufactured in the states anymore, right? So the idea that something would shut down and we could have a catastrophe, get collapse, kind of a cascine effect like we had several years back that kind of hit the northeast. Um you know that's that's a devastating issue because we don't it's not like we've got some large hardware. Our power plants were able to rolling in and replace scare with .

don't manufactured .

that time. You know, I was I to be prepared well, I mean, you can afford IT and it's easy to say what you should have this because you know that they're not cheap, but but you should have a generator of a decent size that will provide you with some level of power, right?

If you don't have power, the first thing most people notice is their phones die, right? And then you know what going to do? You going to sit in the dark and not have tiktok, right? So right .

actually bring society. Yeah it's it's so weird to think when you think about attacks and problems with television icons, with infrastructure, with energy, with water, you think about actual attacks but then you don't realize that just the inbuilt fragile ity of the system is a threat in itself.

absolutely.

We can take this down just by um no malicious intent. No one done anything other than and we don't know is so we don't know what's happened with A T T.

You know what I I was so disinterested to I was happy not to have communications with folks for a while. So I was not the sort to think I got to get to the bottom. I just like, okay, I I got a little, a little celebrate.

Yeah so I know i'm the wrong guy. De, I ask about the A, T, and T, H. curve.

I did find a charming i've i've said before um you know don't we don't really understand the the damage so that these things are doing in a way that great I mean, don't talk i'm not you know I can lot but you know it's going to be years before we understand what access to this for our kids means, right? And you know if anybody's got kids, they understand with that what i'm talking about, right? It's it's, it's the impact of these this instant information and access to material information that they should never have IT an early age, right? All these things again, if you're an upside, the questions like an upside, right? But you know we're not going to understand the impact.

This is going to have a just like with of A I coming in now, right, when not going to really know what this means, right? But I can tell you what is starting to mean. Look, i've had a hard time with my company, which is an intelligence and security firm, permanent square group. Thank you very much.

Yeah linking .

bio a being first marketing plug and you we've always had a hard time finding Young folks who can write well, right? I mean, you can find people who are curious and we gather intelligence, we gather the information around the world.

But so as part of what we do, but you've tt a package that up, you got ta presented to the clients, right? People are paying us for this and you've got to be able to tell that in a smart way, take a lot of information to still IT down to its key points and provide that to somebody, right. And so finding Young folks who can write well, right, who can do that has been a problem. And if you think is a problem now, you know, wait five or ten years with A I when every kid is just using chat b, tear the next version to create everything the day they need for school. I think we ve got a real problem coming down the pike.

Did you see good german? I disaster.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show me of faking.

He tried to be so anti racist that IT was racist. And IT managed to annoy leftists by portraying nazis, black people. And then he managed to annoy rightists by portraying the founding fathers as black people.

Yeah yeah, I think that nothing IT was a very diverse group of, I think there was an asian nazca, there was a espana nazi, there was a black nazi ah, there was everybody except someone from the arian race yeah yeah. Because because we all know that that the .

unities very .

ethic loves D. I. They were all about the, I think global was the D. I minister in the war. Yes, by the way.

this is very good. Enjoy that. Yeah, really good. That'll find you up. So yeah, AI german.

I I mean, I was talking to a friend yesterday who's big in the world fashion. Remember, the elanco alga got in trouble a while ago. They kind of showed some very B D S M stuff that may be featured. Kids close and really cross the line.

I was very ad.

I was that one. A IT was like, you know, if you want to feed into the Peter files who run the world drinking golf blood and sacrificing like women at the full moon and stuff like he .

really played into that but you really don't don't knock people's hobby .

yeah so they everyone everyone need something to go. This seventy percent down from when they started, seven sent down from one that that first happened. My point being that the antibody defense system that the public has against feeling like they're being fucked with, right?

Many companies, many organza, many individuals, are trying to contrive and cynically portray some sort of image even into personally today. You know, you don't tell you your friend about the fucking athletes fut, your aland. You know, like it's all part, it's all fucking smoking ers.

But the seventy person down google is way more important than over Price shoes. But I don't think that we should underestimate how catastrophic and apocalyptic for a company IT can be for the veil to sort of be revealed. It's like here we know that they were doing something. What's happening with the search engine. How can we trust google overall, right?

Yeah no, I think most, most companies now do things out of fear, right? I mean the fear that they're not going to be um whatever the term is now this world cup a progressive enough, right? And so you know whether it's a marking department of the communications department, I think most, most companies always kind of when they look at, okay, we have a new product and we have a new ad campaign got to put out there.

They've got to take some boxes. And okay, fine, marketing has always been that. Advertising has always been that right appeal to whoever you believe your consumer to be right. But I think that there is a there's a level of fear now that exists IT probably wasn't there before that says we don't want to get sideways with the very loud um vocal minority where is out there because you know last time I checked know the L G B T Q community goa blossom, but they're not they're not a majority of the population, but our consumer producing seems to be like believing that they are.

But it's not it's just fear of upsetting a very loud minority of people who, you know have figured out how to manipulate, write the narrative and and again, hey, good for them. Know everybody y's trying, I suppose, do the same thing and no win the day. But yeah, we live in, we live in interesting times, right? And if you raise, if you've got kids in school, right, you see IT almost on a daily basis because kids are pretty, pretty good until they get to a certain age, right? Young kids are pretty good about.

Just get of telling you the truth, right? You'll just come on and y'll say something. They don't intend to edit things that much at a Young age, right? So they'll come back and with you day and go, well, get all i'd had a girl his at me is what you mean his said, you well SHE SHE thinks she's a cat.

And so SHE dresses us like a cat. And SHE only communicates by milling and his sing. And so SHE hit at me, well, why he has this is why I pull her tail either gets funny right first. But you can, you can legitimately get in trouble in school now for for, you know.

harassing of a cat is .

a cat person. And so you hear these things, these other versions of that story that come out on a daily basis. You think, okay, you know, I get IT.

We're kind of accommodating everything nowadays, right? And you know, I everybody has got their own opinion, and my opinion is that you probably don't want to do that right. If some kid tells you that they want to be a dinosaur when they grow up, you know you'll probably .

get over that you need to indulge you. I think you look at the three old. He's a fireman when he wakes up, and then he's a .

postman after an an astro dinner. Yeah, I thought I kept a little less day that I wrote what I was in. I remember what I was.

I was, but that was what I wanted to be. And I was never going to be smart enough to be an asp. And my dad was nice enough not to tell me that IT .

was a remote fantasy in the astronaut cap.

Yeah I mean, he did he did tell me what you you might want to set aside somewhere else other than space. But yeah, I guess anyway, the point I think the over intel's um at at for kids at a Young age is not, I don't think actually solid parenting .

but seems different than just indulging a Young person's desire for fantasy or or a different life. This appears to be a complete rewriting of history. IT appears to be a.

yes, absolutely yeah, fifty percent hiding .

reality and fifty percent raising history.

And think about how focus that was right. Think about the the thought process that one, is that right? And just one, just one dude said, i'm A, i'm to, you know, create this code is going to allow this to happen.

This was, this was, this was a discussion. Nothing happens at the company that size that doesn't go through civil layers of decision making, right, and has to get signed off on its bullshit. If we imagine IT was just one very progressive person who thought, I want to fuck with the system a little bit.

So here we go. The thing was test driven to a fuck and fairly well. And so the idea that they would, now they come out to go.

yeah, who could seen that?

Come on, everybody in product development, right? Um yeah I IT is amazing to think about and then you think about the power that that has google. You can swing a dead cat without gole at some point.

And so everybody is in a way is impacted, right? And yeah, I think I got back to the original country, which is I don't we don't stand we don't have enough data points yet to understand what all this means for the development of of of the human race. Maybe if you want to take IT that for down the road.

definitely what you want to be doing. Now, if you're in this position, you're at the very beginning of the inception of a new type of technology, of A I, of large language models of all of that stuff. You do not want to activate the anti body system within the populist.

You should be moving so slowly. IT should be, shouldn't be allowing IT to generate images. IT should be just in first of text. I don't. I think german, I kind of jumped in straight in at the deepen and did some super advanced stuff. But yeah, I think the implications is for the rest of googles, unbiased or lack of is I think this is really brought to the front a lot of a latent scepticism that people had about that company overall.

I think so. But I think what they're probably counting on is um what most companies count on um which is sort of .

the short attention .

span well off turn turn that .

off .

um yeah I think they're counting on the short attention span, right? H I mean, look at everybody imagined wear .

right image lives .

right at the end of the day, right? I mean, there was there was a dip, right? They hit their stock Price a little bit, but that companies, I go IT out now, it's just not gonna en.

People forget these things, right? Our attention spends, particularly in the in the us. And I would argue rough in the west to some degree, but really in the U. S, I see that I spent a lot of time overseas. But here in in the in america, we've got such a short attention, man.

And there is this inability, right to and i'm not saying you you shouldn't look at google and say, OK, now we got to punish him, Harry, we got to drive out of business. But you know, boy cot, you don't like a product, don't use the product, right? But I I don't think it's going to impact them in the long run. And I don't think they ultimately believe I will or care they care in the short very short term, but I think they understand the dynamics. Um and we're all like bunch of raccoons chase in the next ten for your ball.

It's very easy to outwit somebody else by just looking at a longer time horizon than they do. Yeah yeah if you just realize right now the good light example is so perfect. This is the end of IT kid rocks shooting IT with the yeah fuck and drinking IT yeah you say gillis is now and ambassador for them. You've got like the good light new world order fucking booth at the super ball, right? It's all the people .

are in post support means.

right? And you go, this is one of the, I have such, I get so annoyed with people that are supervision ent about a thing. And then forget about IT because you captured my attention with your bullshit over the top vivent, denial or assertion about some fucking thing. And it's still in my memory, but it's not in yours.

There was this image of a single squad soldier walking down the streets of london, and they got forwarded on what that this was during covet and IT was um this is an image uh sent to me by my brother who is part of the armed forces and whatever whatever um the army you onna come and force you at gunpoint to stay in your house and this is I don't if you you've ever seen this on whats up is a thing that says forwarded many times yeah and it's like a warning that this is being pushed around a lot on whats up. This thing went beyond hyper viral and people added, this is the begin. Remember when there was like tanks rolling through florida, miami, maybe there my my beach like bean going to be locked down and people were fucking adamant at global health passports member that remember that was gonna come in.

And it's just a case of either, oh, well, the amount of attention that we gave IT online stop them from being able to do IT and aren't that's unthink unfaltering fied isn't IT or they're just binding that time until were less vigilant, right? Do you don't get to make insanely certain assertions about the world? And then like a more if you've .

spent any time um working for the government or a government know typically what you find a unless you're in a totalitarian gime, unless you're working for musician being in china maybe. And the government, the U. S.

Government in particular, is not capable of organizing panic in a doom summer in right? They just can. So this idea that somehow they're calling to, you know, create this new world order or you're going to do these things, I mean, you always want to be vigilant.

But yeah, the cover, the pandemic brought out a lot of that, I think in part because that kind of fed into no IT IT was IT was a IT was a great trough, you know, for people who wanted to talk about conspiracies and things and and so okay, great. But know we all knew another pan demo was going to happen, right? We know another one is gona happen at some point, right? Probably have the same reactions. We won't learn anything. But ah i've never been a big fan of the or a big believer in the idea that somehow the governments gona get this mass of conspiracy over onest because I spent too much time .

working for the government and it's your your a belief is that because that so useless this level of coordination would essentially be impossible.

Yes yeah. The idea that they could keep secrets to that degree mean a certain part of the government know intel good to keeping sources and methods right because it's life for death you know, for assets working overseas. But I mean, on the big level, you know we've created some you some of secret area somewhere where we're developing some new at.

Okay, fine, maybe so. But know my experience anyway is that that stuff for the government to keep secret if IT involves multiple agencies or you know a variety of of of positions. I just stop. I again, you have to go with what your personal experiences that mine, i'm sure somebody else you said, and somebody y's basement with no experience as a different idea.

So did you see that germany also refused to create an image? What happened at tani's square?

yes. Yeah, I did. And I also saw that, was that somebody as them? I me so many examples out there, right? Um I think one example, and I haven't traced back to its original source yet, but somebody asked if if IT was a all right to mission der I think that was uh Bruce genre or satan genre um in order to stop a uh nuclear apocalypse or army again and is the kind of the answer what sort of shaded? Well, it's not right. Do you know because IT could be considered discriminatory. Now there maybe other ways to stop the army getting okay.

you know and I think some good lecture al thinking.

yeah this other was there there was was layer, I guess but now there's, I don't I don't know I what I worry about, I I take IT. I tend to think about things in very simple terms. I, my greatest joy and life comes from my, my family, right? So I think about a lot of things in terms of the impact that will have on my kids, what we're leaving behind for the kids, you know what that means for their development.

And so I tend I look at something like, you know A I and and again, it's a fairly simply list c way of looking at IT. I'm not as so considering the human race i'm considering get impact will have on on teaching my boys to be smart thinkers, to become your productive, become leaders. You know, what is all of this? Mean, tiktok.

What is that? You know, not just tiktok, but I mean just the access information in social media. What is that doing to these minds? right? And you know I get I suppose you know the just recent generation had the same conversations with shooter games, right? Video games. So every, every generation deals with IT. You know, i'm sure my parents talked about rock and world music, right, and were worried about that.

So it's not even before that radio.

before that nothing new. It's just IT does seem more insidious, right? IT seems more because IT IT is it's reaching more people, right? And it's having more immediate impact and it's affecting the way that we think about things and how we reacted.

News of the day, we're tired of ukraine after two years, right? We were in afghanistan for thousand and twenty years, right? And I we're fatigue from IT to some degree or in some fashion, but took almost no type for people to get tired of know a lot of people that were out there and couldn't wait a peanut fucking ukraine flag in their front yard, right, or or or post a little.

Crane flag on on the twitter side, you know, another all, you know, we can spend more money there, you know. So, okay, what happened in the short man of two years? Well, immediate access to information and in all those opinions and ideas, right? And then people get silo and they start reading only things that agree with them. And then then they're they're done right now. They're i've got a harden opinion and you can't shift him off that position right and will get back .

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You can ross your your ipad, your phone and even your smart T V. Yet eighty three percent you can't. Plus three months, three, by going to the link in the description below or heading to surf shark dot deals flash modern wisdom that surf shark dot deals flash modern wisdom. Do you see what happened with the super bol where alesha is? Voice broke, and then they went back and retroactively fixed her voice, do you see this?

No, you know, I did that the giants were in subs. I didn't .

prety ripped alley. Key's voice broke on the first note of this piano solo thing that he was doing. But if you go back and watch the super balls recording of IT on youtube, the voice is perfect.

Well, and this has been, look, alysha key is not the vanguard of rewriting history, but you can certainly see between A I. Being able to misrepresent how history would have been this sort of erasing of history and rewriting of the present, and then this retroactive changing. And even if it's just a little bit with regards to someone's voice, this is different to auto tuning a song.

This is a record of what happened in history. And I think this starting to get quite worrying, like I earn on the side of non conspiracies. M but yeah, this is starting to get a bit. I don't like the doors that are being opened IT.

I think there are some uh mechanisms that are in companies that are trying to uh or have been trying to get to have of the curve. I'm not sure that that's that's possible right now. But um you have it's like the old days to read article newspaper.

You think, okay, that's very interesting. But you know but is IT true, right? I mean, so what's the basis for this? You know and used to be one of the defenses was sources would be named, right? You couldn't write an article. You wouldn't get a published if IT was based on anonymous sources. Well, now that's not journey more.

In new york times, i'll publish a front page article on the the have based on anonymous sources and and so is trying to verify something and and and you you push that forward today and you say, okay, now i'm trying to verify A A A clip that i'm seeing on on x right or on youtube or something and how do you do that? Because the ability to manipulate video and audio is remarkable. But there's there's you almost impossible to tell the difference basically without some assistants.

And so these companies out there that are trying to ensure that you are, are basically in printing actual the truth, right? So you take video and that is the original source and it's it's imprinted in in the code. So that says this is the the date, the time, the location. And so you can verify that what's being said by that political candidate or whom ever right on in on that podium is accurate because then you may see a day later, you may see the same clip, but it's been altered alteration and yeah order to so there are some companies out that are working to do that to prevent deep fakes. But it's it's very difficult because you relying on people's curiosity and um and then having the interest right to pursue to make sure that what they are saying and most people don't if they don't have the time or they don't have the patients or the interest.

what the point with ChatGPT and these L L ms and A I and search engines is to reduce the friction from getting where you are to where you want to be. Times of understanding in terms whatever is your searching for, all right, right? And the fact that it's frictionless is precisely the attraction, lies its convenience.

And all right and if you could imagine a world in which the most convenient route also takes in, uh, lack of accuracy. Y so because look, you can find this out in three seconds, but there's a accuracy more that precisely. You could be a little bit wrong either way, or you can do your own research. You going to take you day and a half, and you gonna .

what actually .

people, because you have the opportunity. IT is more effortful to not portray the truth. IT takes more effort to do that. Now it's less convenient, but IT takes more effort to lie than he does to tell .

the truth well um yeah that but but that the gap that difference between lying and till the truth is shrinking, right? Because of the technology, because of the access to be able to do this.

So um you know and and you're right I mean if you just if you pair back to just for the human nature, right if you you know but that's why if you're being interrogated, you know you got to stick to the truth to the most part right you want to stay as close to the truth as possible, obviously without very off into something that's onna get you ask but um the idea because otherwise if you if you're lying, you got to keep building on that you can keep remembering and and you spend all your time thing. Okay, where was OK? What did I say that would not say I said that.

And if you're dealing in an interrogation situation, you know and that's what you're counting on, you're counting on if that person's lying to me at some point, they're going to get confused, right, and are going to start mixing up that story. And particularly if you in the old days, you've got the ability for sleep deprivation of whatever IT is right, you can start messing with their mind a little bit. Then yes, that's that's what you're counting on.

But so you're absolutely right in the sense that lying is much more to asian the like if you make a mistake, right? The best we were taught this at the agency, right? Uh, being on the field in Operations.

I remember uh, one of my first um bosses told me when I landed on site before I went off to do whatever I was doing. He said, know if if anything happens, make a mistake to come tell me sort IT but just just tell me smartest think right you can do to empower a Young people with responsibility. We are given responsibility to know that if they make mistake, come forward with the tell and cheer off.

You know, because of, you know, Operations in the sea, the field, sometimes things happen. So, you know, and he was good to his word, right? We had a bit of a good, you know, IT worked out, but you gotta a be able to do that, you gotto be able to show.

It's not enough to say, hey, you make a mistake, can tell me, will fix IT. You know, if you kick their ask when they come in a mistake, then, yes, exactly. So you got you gotta follow through, but so you're write in a set. Yeah, telling it's always the truth.

Telling the truth is always easy as path, right? But I guess my point being is, in the world of this information now, if your job is is propaganda or misinformation or disinformation is becoming a lot easier, right, and a lock quicker, a lot more efficient, right, to create that. Then in the old days, if you were gonna a prop aga campaign, I change hearts and minds in some country, right? You, you're trying to sway the people.

I'm not talking about overthrow the government. IT was good old days so I was so that you we never did that sort of if they come out um but the point being is that you had that was a lot of work, right? Because what we are doing, you are using all media technology, right? You are finding journalists who might be in climbed, for whatever reason, to write articles in a certain tone and the create network of them.

And you d kind of pepper the the country with, you know, this this narrative. M, and you'd build on that and hope that you're having in the impact. Both is much easier. Now you getting me think about.

you remember the cambridge genetical yes member that you know targeted memes and ads that were tranches into cohort and we have the IT. Maybe Hillary is a non U. S.

citizen. Maybe hilary is a know all of different ways that this gets spread. You had all of these different vulnerabilities and victims of attack, but there was still a person making a me or making an advert or whatever.

So there was still human labor getting in the way of the rapidity of this. Where is now you have both the ability for A I to deliver IT in a targeted manner and also to create a so you you can have mike Baker profile on facebook or instagram, a tiktok or whatever. And it's not no one wants that all, but that is just you that it's targeted that so yeah, I think yet increasingly, we're going to see real information, original sources.

You maybe you'll be away. Where are being an actual person on social media will be A A rarity in the next five years. Maybe humans are gonna be a ninety nine percent of content will be created by bots. Every so often you'll see a tweet from you or someone else is real.

Yeah and it's if if you're talking about a uh a state, right if you're talking about um creating something that's going to get pass scrutiny of know chinese, intel or russian and tell to me yeah then you you're work in your asset, right? You're creating a very hard backstop. Elaborate elaborate cover um and it's it's a lot of work.

But for the average person out there for what you trying to do is influence to the campaign or you're trying to you know creating ten thousand a fictional characters, you know saying interesting things out there, who then, you know, IT is like the old concentric circles, who then get five thousand followers age, and that it's I, but again, IT all comes down to the same problem, right? We can talk about all the the things you can do, but its individuals, right? IT comes down to each person saying to themselves is what i'm reading or hearing of watching true you know I don't know how you you impact that, right? Because human nature being what IT is, we're just we're consuming shit and then move on at least a stance yeah at the least resistance. And to be fair, most people are just trying to put food on the table, take care the kids or whatever they do IT. And so you can ask them to spend a lot .

of time scrutinizing. I don't have to time to be my own personal snows.

everything think and I see yeah, yeah, yeah I think so. I think that there's you know there is there is always going to be this this a this this problem. And not to say that IT has always existed, right? But I do think the acceleration is pretty impressive, right?

The speed of which you can create this, this this fake, right? This deep fake or or this persona that pushes information out there, whatever may be. And uh, the speed with which people are willing to consume IT and pass that along, right?

So that's something we're going be battling, I think, for a wow and and I will IT impact this upcoming election, of course that will and in future elections. So right, why wouldn't if if if I am russian intelligence or chinese intelligence or iranians, anybody who's got the resource, why wouldn't try to fuck with the U. S? yes.

So or or the U. K, or really it's, it's, I get it's not just A U. S. Centric problem.

What do you think we learned from the putin tucker interview speaking in russia?

Well, pom, a dush bag. I think that I took that away but i'd say I had a preconceived .

notion for those .

of your prior yeah that was I was something guy walked into the interview with um like I don't I don't know, I I think I understand why talk I wanted to do IT aside from just hundred and sixty million views, however many got right. I mean, that was sure to be A A winner in interest ratings. I don't think IT revealed anything clever or knew about putin's mindset is a smart cat, right? So he knew what he was going to say, how he was going to act, what he was going to look like. You know every every minute he's a very calculating individual, right? He survived russian politics right for this long and at the top right um you don't do that by being a moron or stumbling into an interview with tuck or carlson, right who's not exactly black luthor r right i'm so that you know I get that and that's not a little thing to tucker is a smaller guy.

I'm just saying that it's not like IT IT was not like some marvel you know movie where the the two evil minds got together putney's a very calculating, clever individual so I don't think we added from my perspective but I didn't learn anything, knew about him um look, this idea that somehow we have no interest in ukraine and we should just close the curtains on IT um yeah ukraine great courage for two years we all loved I you know keep my bumper sticker on the car um for ukraine and now we walk away because we don't Carry more because we're tired of IT and we want to do something and we spend that money back. Of course, we should spend the fuck and money at home, right? We have got a lot of infrastructure problems and the resources we should do, but we also have concerns over there. And so I think, you know, i'm amazed to speed with which that happened, but you could argue that about a lot of things .

I just meet at which the support fell off. yes.

But I mean, look again, I don't need to jump all over the place. But hama's roles in the southern rail slaughter is two hundred people and probably the most medieval display of brutality that we've seen in our lifetimes. Right um which everybody agreed was was incredibly brutal and in record time.

Is israel's fault right? Because they've gone into gaza to try to destroy the hamas, which has been doing this, which has always been in existence, to destroy israel. And so, yeah, and of course you don't want civilians to die, but humans 是 班， you know, going on a couple of decades now, embedding themselves inside that population, knowing that every time that there is a conflict civilian's gona type, knowing that that's going to drive the narrative. That's what they do. So the speed with which that happened, the speed with which we ve gotten fatigue in ukraine IT all kind of comes back around again .

to this or this whole idea. Ah, I for something new yeah I I know that the putin toker interview was going to be a big deal and I sort of prepared myself yeah this like catch c class smic meeting of you like west and soviet and and then I I don't know I came away from my kind just been like, oh um just very enlightened kind of an impressed I think you know you have this thirty minute treats monolog silicic.

I at the start about this is the history and this is why we feel this way and so and so for and you know, talk is he's a very competent interviewer. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually, you know, I don't know how difficult IT must have been.

And this is something that people are never really going to see the intermediate y of a translator between the two ads, a degree of complexity that can really is like fighting a south pole. Something throws you off for a step a little bit, right? And that sounds silly. But, you .

know, no, they use that to that mean, that always been the case. You always use a translator .

to your advantage. That gives chance to say something back, to do what that would be very interesting. But now I just IT was a bit now is dead yeah and that's the next and that happens what? A week, maybe ten days after .

he set down a uka? Yes, and he doesn't care, right? Me, we imagine that that russia cares is what we think about them, how they're portray. And we imagine that g worries .

about how chunk you mean like they have got a brand equity dash current rating four point four thousand.

What is the creating or the cue factor? How popular are we? Yeah they they really don't care in part not so much russia but more china because they have ve got the longer view right。 They look weight down the road compared to how the the west tends to do IT. But um I think the the parameter is what they were allowed to do, carson, in this crew when they went in uh we're pretty hard and fast right there. You can imagine there's a lot of back and force that .

goes into the late as well for the two hours late yeah apparently is like path of the course.

He was riding a tiger. He was doing something. He, he was being fighting a pair. Yeah, there are a couple of them.

Uh, but yeah, if if girls is like born on, born in, on on, girls of its right, even girls cubits who sitting in in jail or paul wheel in you know um in in in in in more aggressive fashion so okay what where's your evidence with with evan that he's been engaged in? How about that? You know when are you actually going to do something about uh an actual you know uh open transparent effort to discuss this case um if you if you had gone in on that more um but that won't been allowed to happen right that wit wasn't part of the the agreed upon you know uh playing field so I just I didn't think we were going to get anything new and I I didn't feel like did again I understand why he did IT h had the interview um but anyway but then have only situation um sudden death syndrome ah you're in a force labor camp like just yeah above the arctic circle .

being alive being alive is a surprise like the .

death isn't the surprise .

thing my god lasted june and healthy as yeah he went for a walk and then he didn't feel well .

that was the original comment he want for a walk and they didn't feel well you because what you do about the arctic circle go go for a walk and um and then um you know there was some comment he had a bruising around his head in his chest and their response was well he hit his when he fell on the peake dly and then the chest was when they were trying to revive him. It's so from a russian perspective, IT was IT was exactly what you would expect and whether he was poisoned, whether they the blunt force trauma, whatever the outcome, was probably always inevitable with the value because he was always a threat. And what's the .

give the thirty thousand for the for the people who who don't .

know his background and not only he was he he's i'm trying to remember the year that he kind of really first surfaced um i'm i'm drawn a black but he he most not most recently but he became sort of a critic of uh of chacha he became a critic of some of the governance in chacha and and the corruption he started um being more vocal about primarily about corruption issues right and then he fed off of that i'm really oversimplifying that.

But he had to be careful about how he was doing that obviously because you you get sideways with the russian regime pretty quickly but he started gain of following because he was one of the few people who is actually getting out and talking about things that you know, I suppose the back in their minds. I were thinking, yes, probably action going on here in the russian government and around the region. And eventually he he went to run for mayor.

And that didn't end well, right? He didn't. He got convicted or charged with business corruption. That was kind of the first salvo, the pool and fire.

Adam, I think an effort, say, hey, look to shut up because I think you know you're going to find this is not going to go well for you. So IT was business corruption. You see that in china too, anytime somebody gets sideways, was he usually it's a corruption charge.

It's a some type of mp business side. So then and then they disappear. So not only made a bit for for mayor of moscow feeling like that's where you could make a change, right?

I think is real mindset was if you if you could get that post, then he really could perhaps longer term influence change in russia. I mean, he was is a proponent of democracy. Then this information started to getting.

There was a lot of movement from the putin regime, uh, painting him and you know a lot different ways right in okay you you're no far right. You're an extremist. You're all sorts of things started to come through um and then IT kind all went sideways. He eventually ended up I think that was twenty thousand and twenty twenty um he was on a flight get sick in a nova shock was the north agent that they .

used serious shit.

serious shit vented by the soviet um and um so he almost died from that was out of the country and then to his credit after he recovered OK i'm on a combat .

straight works .

yes yeah so he flew back. He got arrested before even really got were near you passport control, they just picked them up and and that was pretty .

much yet during during this period he had started to do youtube and he was flying drones at him. His team were flying drones over the top of putin's billion dollar compound yeah, releasing stories that he's just got like an army of hookers and and pull dances and stuff, just cycling their way through this place and look at all of the money. And this is where it's been spent, but fAllen like in order to be able to go as far as they did, IT looks like pretty high grade technology to be able to capture this sort of stuff.

Yeah, I mean, you can. Is, again, drones being what they are?

Now that is, yes.

like that. I like that yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yes. Character, yeah, I know. So yeah.

The the drawn technology has changed everything, right? And it's so accessible, right? Ah you don't need much. I feel the box will get you done with the camera that you can get some really good footage of.

So but you're right, you know, talking about his is a is a lavish lifestyle, is spending that are to put on a personal level, right? And put only cares about one thing, right, right, which is maintaining power. Same with you, and you maintain power by keeping the people.

Under control, right? So social unrest is the one thing that these guys all fear the most right, including the models in iran. You know kim joon, although he lives in of a fantastic y world, north korea, so they ve all um you know at at a certain point he IT for him. I was inevitable, I think, was where I was going.

I mean, I remember watching IT unfold at the time after this guy has been popped with north agent and then it's slowly recovers and then starts doing his youtube stuff again. And this is getting in days tens of millions of place and it's not even its only in russian right you can maybe translated into british subtitles or english title and and then he like, i'm not scared of you like you should be here, you should be scared yeah but and as soon as he got on that plane right to go back to the motherland, that was at some point within the next five years, you're probably going to .

be dead yeah and I think that I can see the calculation that he and is, you know his wife from shore and and probably close cod dry made that the most impact you can have will be in country, right? I mean one thing to be a dissident outside the country, china's got a number of those, even though the SHE regime tries to track down, change their minds um but I think they ve only probably spend a fair matter time, who knows but it's speculation.

But I suspect you spend a lot time on that calculation. Can I have more impact outside the country, inside the country and to his credit in early flu back knowing, I think exactly what was going to happen. Um and so that have you got .

any idea what these labor camps are like, what where IT is and what it's like that we have any information about that?

This was the what's known as a polar wolf, the I K three um uh penal colony a above the arctic circle. And i'd personally haven't spent time there, but it's um it's reported to be one of the most brutal uh camps that they ve got right, which tells you and it's completely isolated and that's really what they were looking to do was just to put them away somewhere.

What people would forget about him to his wife's credit, to his lawyers credit right um and to a small circle of of supporters um they were able to keep some att keep some focus on IT and his mother as well uh but you know the idea being were just out of side, out of mind, right? And lot of people talk about when he died, you know the headlines were all, you know putin's most prominent critic. Well well, prominent implies that there's a bunch of others, right? Only yeah basically only critic at this point. Yeah um I mean there's there's some brave people who will get on the street .

and you know are a lot of protest but then those people were being rounded .

up and arrested. Some were picked up uh before there was even an opportunity to have a not even so much a protest as a memorial service out in public .

right and then they refused to give the body bank for .

little as they did.

They talk while they let toys anticipate um honestly you know at this point gives a fuck you would put what problems team think to themselves where you know gna waste some poisons and on them up here we're just onna let you do yes I who knows how we actually ended up going but um his wife is you know promised to Carry on and you know there were lots of headline saying, what does this mean for russia? That doesn't mean shit for russia unfortunately, right? This we will not be talking about this. Unfortunately in six months time I know they laid more sanctions on on russia.

I have five hundred new sanctions loved you against russia's financial and military sectors. The round of sanctions at the most at one time since russia invaded ukraine two years ago. And a lot of criticism that is enough, sufficient, basically made threat, I suppose, a deal that if navi died, that there would be more sanctions. We've deposited half a thousand and IT seems like this was kind .

of like a yeah, yeah. How about how about we did those sanctions two years ago when russia invade IT? If we had additional sanctions, we could lay on to to fuck with their ability to make money to fund their military adventures ism in the ukraine.

Why didn't we do that before? What would we have asking sanctions for? So they came up with the, you know, sort of bullshit Price cap on oil, right? The only way putting affords what he's doing in ukraine through energy revenues, right?

So you know the sanctions of this point of them, like, well, okay, well know we get to cap russian oil at sixty dollars of barrow, can't buy IT at a higher prize. Well, you know the words, I get what we talking about, right? So they've created this whole shadow fullest to merchant ships.

They've sold thirty five billion dollars with the oil india, which turns around and refines a lot of that oil, sells a lot of that product to the U. S. In the E. U.

right? It's just boltin the idea that you've got more cash in their account now in russia that they ve had in quite some time. really.

I certainly more than before the war I had started because they've the sanctions have been in effective, haven't been aggressive enough and we should be doing what you could I get the same for iran but you know again that I don't want to disappear IT on another rabid um yeah when they talked about they came out and you know they blow the eight about where can lay on sanctions now because of evolving you should have fucked in done those actions two years ago, right? Squeeze made IT so he couldn't afford this, right? And maybe we wouldn't have spent billions and billions of billions of dollars to ukraine because putin n couldn't afford to do what he's doing. But that's still a president.

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Well he said that numerous times himself he he said that this is most um director was the collapse of soviet union was the greatest crisis of the twenty years century and and so I guess my my point is that he spent the past thirty plus years try trying to figure how to rebuild IT in some fashion I don't me the entire soviet union but he certainly wants to to get back to something more than what he's guy right he he's very keen on sort of the glory of the motherland, right? And then okay, everybody know everybody y's nationalists, but he's uh ambitious in A A landgrave sort of way.

So when he says that and when he talks about um the threat of nato on his border, right, he's he's not bullshitting, right? He means that, right? So the idea that he's going to take your crane and if we stop aid, you know I think this I you know washing's going to do what they do.

Um but if they don't provide resources to ukraine going forward, if we say I it's it's enough. Let's focus on ourselves. It's not important.

Um and people rationalized that by thinking that it's just ukraine, you know why do we care it's one country. Um if they imagine that that's where he's going to stop. He's going to end up with key and then go, yeah OK, i'm good, tough, fine. Now I don't care. I'm i'm i'm now focus on on improving myself and you know the homeland um you know that's not a track record and i'm not sure where people get that that belief for us, timm, from I think it's it's a rationalization because they don't want to spend any more money on ukraine because they don't see the value in um trying to prevent putin from invading and taking over. Just seems in a second country how much .

truth is there in the russia's got declining both rates. This is close to the highest that their population is ever going to be, therefore the armed forces, uh, this is kind of a last chance. Attempt to be able to have the Manda wer to go into ukraine is the only truth .

in that is a story of push around online yes three one manpower vantage of ukraine um and more importantly they've got an ability to a suffer and put up with um pain um that and I only the west really understands and um go back and look at their history in the war too and their losses that they were willing to uh sustain IT is the cultures .

still the same as then though?

Um I think it's pretty well ebell ded in the culture. I mean you can argue that it's been more modern society and they have got access information at the end of the day. Um I think putin is in his cowards. I think they they read the people pretty well and you would imagine that you know there must be populations, you know just rising up in the streets and and that's not happening, right?

Looking in party was smart and how he was constructing a lot of people he took him from, you know, sort of the nevertheless the outer regions, you know that he wasn't recruiting a lot of of the soldiers off the streets of same Peters burgo or moscow, however. And because he doesn't want to, he doesn't nessy want to bring the war right to moscow and make them feel the pain, right me. They went through that in afghanistan to something great when the soviet occupied afghanistan.

And eventually, you know, sort of the popular unrest at home, uh, mothers of dead soldiers, you know, they all started. And so he could start to feel that right? I think I think they do have the appetite to wear a lot of pain. And so I think that that's what put in counts on um you know whether theyll have the mind power I think you're putin, you know he they miss calculated so much right the russian multi ian intelligence Operators made so many mistakes going into this invasion but I think one calculation that he's kind of clang to is that the west will get tired and that's that's kind of what happened yeah he count .

on the shortness of the attention yeah and .

I think he dunk he imagine na was gonna was gna break rider spender or there wouldn't certainly be the the cohesiveness that there is any certainly to anticipate of growing like nato has. But so there's a lot of mistakes there. But I think he has um correctly some hope on the fact that we get tired of IT right and that there would sort of be this popular unrest and make no mistake, the recent disinformation apparatus is busy feeding that right.

So again, goes back to what we're talking about with information that you read and trying to figure out in what these opinions are on social media. Um why wouldn't they? Right IT IT, it's impossible to think that the russian, uh, regime, that the the intel apparatus wouldn't look at the situation ago.

Yeah, we need to do what we can to influence the narrative in the state, in the west, right? They've been doing this forever. They didn't war, war two, to try to keep us out of world war two right before the notes germs invaded russia when they were allied.

You know, they spend a lot of time a focused on trying to influence public opinion inside the U. S. To keep amErica out of the war. So it's not something new, right? They're just using different technology.

How much longer do you think man warfare has?

I think it's always going to be A A, A place for you know door picks. I don't think there's any doubt about IT, right? You got you got to have you've got to have some boots on the ground, but the I think the poin edge of the sphere in a major in in in in a major global conflict, a big global not a regional issue that's definite going to be um you know taking place in cyber space.

And uh I think that the the first the goal will be to kill moral at home what look like. Well, I mean, you you'll do the usual that's why they're mapping out. You know if you went to I know which office IT is in china, but if you went to in an office you would find a playbook that maps out the infrastructure in the us, the U K.

The west in terms of our power systems, uh, transportation, water treatment facilities. Um you know how do you stop the financial system um simple things that you keep someone from going to a cash point pulling out, right? How do you keep somebody from being able to you know get their medicines, right?

How do you shut down the power grid here? You you want to bring the pain to the home front as quickly as possible, right? You do that by attacking the mistrial .

bombers over the top of you.

Now you may at a certain point, you know but I I so I I think that that will be the first that will be the first major effort um the weapon zone of space, right? You be looking to take out part of the problem, people talk about knocking out GPS. Yes, you can target a country specific satellite right but um you know some of this like at a massive E M P attack right um will impact everybody right some degree.

So that will be more of a targeted surgical effort, but it'll certainly play a role. And yeah I I think that's that's doubt but I don't think like we didn't imagine there would be another major land war in europe, right? If you feel inside five years ago, yeah I can have a like a war, war one like trench situation, where IT goes into a war of attrition.

They make very little movement. I need to sign, and they private people thought that was crazy. Yeah, you can go to the imperial war museum in london and go to the war world one exhibit.

And you look at you, you see what what took place to and what were one and and and how IT impacted, uh, food production and energy production, anything. And you think, well, that seems somewhat more so there. I think that there always be a place for that. But I think what we'll see is there will be that immediate desire to hurt the homeland as quickly as possible and try to impact morale because knowing that that's what's gonna drive domestic decisions.

what about from a connect standpoint? How much is gonna drone? How much is gonna robotic? How much is gonna unmanned erie vehicles and stuff like that?

Yeah what would that in a big way? It's almost like we're testing uh, the capabilities right now and saying one of the impacts um forward looking gathering of intelligence, right for a sort of short term strategy, gic planning of of true movements or uncertainly, immediate impact of targeting um on targets of opportunity drones um are are proving to be invaluable, right? And here i'll give the iranian regime credit, right? They at some point they must have seen that several years ago because they built a certain capability and production of drones.

I think they understood the the value there, uh as in a variety of the obviously you know U S and U K. Of an in advanced drone production for years. But it's not just delivery of weapons on target.

It's it's the intel gathering, you know, functions that drones are really changing the battlefield in the certain way so that they play a role, important role, unmanned uh, capabilities. I mean, we but we've been saying that for some time, there's been arguments. You can you take the human out of at a targeting and the decision making of actually you know Greenlighting .

against attackers, how discriminate you want to be with the damage and the collateral damage .

as well yeah and I think there's a moral implication there of saying do we take the human out of a decision to target, kill other humans? Um I think that's a that's a big leap. A i'm sure it's gonna en Frankly. I mean human nature being what that is. I think that the decision is going to be to drive towards whatever is most efficient and effective, particularly if something kicks off, if we've got a major conflict. But for right now, you know this look has happened before the soviet had what was call the dead hand system, which essentially um for a if if if all their leadership was wiped down, they did have a system in place that would take over and and uh continue counter response and so they had that um so it's not unthought of or undeveloped. It's unused and potentially .

sub optimal compared with what's being used at least for the time being right .

yeah yeah things have advanced since the dead hand in in the old, sorry, union for sure. But yeah, so I think there's what what holds people back from that is, is again, this uneasy feeling, this moral issue .

of you think that the russians, if they prepared to put navagin into some dissidents like rival, but you know, that's not gonna a consideration for them. That doesn't seem like IT would .

be a consideration for well, but that the consideration, I think, is more of, does that mean I lose power? Know the calculation is okay. Is this the end for me? Then if I do something, I still, I my self .

obsolete by just becoming an algorithm one for it's a slippery slope.

Although I done well that I think this is part of IT. Is is is that but I I I guess I was looking more towards sort of and pushing the button, the big one. And so okay, we're going to get there. I think that's that's where IT you get that hard and fast. I want to want.

I want to centralize. Yes.

yeah. I like my army of hookers more than I.

I like an army of homes. Did you see this modified r rex nine healthy missile, this flying ginsu thing? If you looked at this here, this thing is a hard call.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This summary, I think it's six, six summary. Blades come out the three, four, five feet long. And I can target an individual car. And if you were stud two yards to the sides of the car, I mean, going to be a big bang and you'd know that something had happened, right?

But you would be, physically, you would be fine. Yeah.

it's something of a and or and they got, sorry, they got the one of the guys supposedly was a part of nine eleven morning coffee on a balcony and I will see some bloke just with a little pink lazer targeted and they sent to that.

Just think, have a backup, always want a redundant system. People always say, ah dundalk y but no, you want to back up in case IT to first you imagine .

you step out on your balcony up your day, have any new morning a spread and before you .

know you're just just yeah yeah I know look at the lethality of that but but also other weapons systems is pretty you know IT would shock a lot of people, I think.

But the the precision is also look, I mean, people talk about this in on and there's a lot of of focus put on that because there's I I don't think people really understand how much debated es on before yeah you know pull cord on a on tar me think, okay, there's a lot of back and forth. What's the blow back? What's the the potential of civilian damage? What it's not like the movies we say, yeah I O we don't give shit now, just get the target.

There's a lot of back and forth. And so as a result of that, because people in in the pentagon in particular, always asking about zero risk and we want zero know one zero collateral damage. And you can't know things are messy, right? So something happens and you know there's a potential for collector damage as the way the world works. But they have worked very hard on the weapons technology side to try to create these these systems.

Minimal lateral .

law damage in in order to in part yeah in paris to avoid the killing is the part is also to ensure that you when you .

get a high value target done yeah if what's this going to do? What one of the optics of this, you know he's a bad guy, fee's a bad guy, and you know that he's a bad guy, you pull the tRicky, but then how is going to play the press? And all of these .

yes narratives begin to.

I guess, subjective, a tactical decision with a branding decision. Yeah, that's very, very yeah. I that I have thought about that that IT IT is A. IT reduces the friction between pulling the trigger because IT is less likely to cause headaches down the road.

A because that's always the question that's always and it's become more and more than issue is, you know what what is ecuador damage look like and and then sometimes what theyll say, say, okay, we have to wait, we pull back, hold fire and be logic, and you lose the opportunity because window opportunity on a particular target know that shots really quickly sometimes. So then you don't know where you and there are.

There can be a lot of of of frustration invoke because you know that target you you you should act on IT, but you also know, okay, we get you know we do have the legitimate tions. Oh, so the decision made up higher level is always you know it's going to fall on that that side. It's going to say, okay, we have we have to pull back.

Is this a new degree of scrutiny around collateral damage? Yeah, in in warfare, obviously natural damage has been. I know it's an obvious example, but like bombing of dress in that type of stuff, right? IT was done for collateral damage. Uh, where is now IT seems like the war is supposed to be the most surgical, sterile, targeted, precise, ethical way. Like I I only want the fuel for my fucking in aex nine healthy sile to be from renewable sources.

But it's a nav. It's a nav.

We plug IT in and .

we have a recharge station, have way they are to target yeah IT is it's relatively new. And I think part of its also if we could keep coming back to the same thing, flow of information speed of in may, see the people can .

watch .

stress in being bombed right, or get photos of the people. I mean, look, I go back to the civil war. People seen actual footage, what the hell is happening on the fields of getting Better? Horrified, right? D day, right?

If people could have seen the film that evening of what was taking place at first day, a public opinion would would have shifted considerably. But I think so, yeah. So that helped to drive this idea that we got a, we ve got to minimize that.

We got to to minimize that damage. You still got to have bad actors in the world. You still have to deal with the metal.

It's not, it's not a fucking community of nations, wherever is acting, and everybody else is best interest as bullett, right? So you have to you have to account for the fact that a, at times things we're going to be unpleasant. But yeah.

I only found that speaking of the drone, one thing, we walked to pass A D, J. I store here in miami, and I didn't realize that the us. Had basically put so many restrictions on U.

S. Drone creators. They said, we don't want anyone who's basically able to interfere with flight paths and create these technologies.

We definitely don't wanted at home, which left the market completely open for D. J, I, which I didn't know the chinese company. Yeah, go figure.

Now the entire drone market is dominated by D, J. And now amErica are trying to play catch up and have tried to relinquish some of these restrictions on domestic a creators of drawing technology. And it's just it's there away with the wind .

have done that in a number areas, right? What you're talking about, I don't know light or anything. There's you know regulatory policies, you know domestic concerns um have definitely impacted development of certain technologies.

And the chinese have no such restrictions, right? And they certainly have no such restrictions on on uh on providing uh information that they spend a great deal of time whose wearing up intelligence, you know, from a variety of sources overseas and providing that to their private sector, right? That's part of the until apparatus sis.

How does that work role in life where they steal information, bring at home and in fun what, into a supposedly private, but their state owned up state companies. But I guess up the point being is that there there intel apparatus is primary objective aside from, you know, keeping the population and check is a is to develop, promote their commercial side of things, their economy. And so the .

two work article together.

yeah we don't go out. We don't the as as an example, the agency C I A wouldn't get a directive, a tasking order from general elective that says, hey, we need we need the plans from uh, an international competitor. You know that they're working on some some new engine uh, component.

Please go out and get that for us, right? It's not how IT works right now. You could argue that would benefit our economy. I mean, if IT was because it's certainly ended IT china's economy to have that, that cost sport, but we have this a firewall there. So you know you don't take you know talking with the idea that, okay, we're developing information here, intelligence, collecting IT from others, stealing IT, basically to provide IT to the private sector.

So this is not an orbital line, but there is A A compact mentalizing between the private and the governmental sectors in the U. S. P, which means that the resource is an information of both aunts are yeah.

that's a good way to put IT. That's a really good way to, I would argue, just along those lines, which is that um we have hampered ourselves at times by not having a more robust dialogue between um between the intel community.

And now with with cyber attacks, the work goes cyber space also with uh federal long enforcement, which is focused on you know some degree elements of federal and focused on preventing or a resolving cyber attacks from outside elements. So I don't think we have enough of a robust dialogue between those between government and private company is right? A commercial sector, if you want to have a uh a major U S. Company protected or a british company or whom ever protected from outside hostile actors in in, in, in cyber terms, for instance, they need to know what's happening out there.

I they need to have more information right about the threats and how those threats developed and whose responsible and there has to be more of that ability to say, okay, I we've got a problem turn to whether it's the FBI or or or the agency or whom ever say how do we resolve this, right? And they can't just be a one way dialogue where the commercial sector provides their information to the the government. The government is thank you very much.

You know they need to be more informed and they're trying to do that to some degree. Now they're trying to have more of that dialogue, but it's not seamless. And by any mates, it's not like in china or even in russia or the place where where they don't see A A need for a firewall.

They don't believe that, right? Because they don't really have a free market system. They have a capital system, you know.

But our ideas, so you can benefit one company because it'll fuck over other. Yes, yes. So they they don't give .

a shit about that. I only learned about a the purpling of the armed forces recently. So can you explain what what that means? Like what was what .

what was that?

There was a particular extraction that was supposed to happen in the late nineties and a number of navy sales. I think that was the highest number of navy sales that had ever been lost up to that point, like may be maybe twenty or thirty of them because there was air force overhead and the seals down on the ground weren't able to communicate with them. And this was because each different segment of the armed forces acted independently.

They didn't have they literally didn't have the communication systems be able to speak. And it's kind of this a integration. I mean, that just seems so idiotic. How did you manage to get yourself to the stage where the air force and the navy and the army talking to each other? And IT feels to me not too similar to this .

situation. And you caught purpling, I hope, and heard that is turkey. Yeah, that's the silvering of of the military branches and their development of of their own whether its protocols, uh, communication systems of assets, right air platforms. I mean, that's why you you've got in the pentagon and D O, D, you've got a competition going on for who's developing. He was getting money for the latest.

You think, well, no, not I don't know the marines have their own air force and you think is that sense what's going on here? Why is that the most efficient way? Um but that was silly ing of of of the branches right and to some degree territorial you know pissing and kind of protection of their own turf, uh, development of their own internal capabilities that were analysts have done that necessarily.

But um you you know there was a sense that, okay, you've got spec ops. We need spec ops. We need us. We you need that. I think we've got and and it's true which branch has its own obvious functions right and and specialities.

But you know there wasn't a sense that okay is there are more of an efficient way that they can all uh blend together. And we've got maybe one element that uh, combines all that. Does a particular thing. Is there a way too certainly on the communication side, right, because you'll get a development of you know A A calm system right from the air force, right through a contractor, right that in the in the old days wasn't compatible necessarily, or they wasn't their driving motive with is a compatible with what the navy is doing, or is IT compatible what the army is doing? And part of that was just natural, you know, territorial protection, right of of what they're doing and protection of their own budgets and they know their reputation and you know sort of their image. There's a lot in there that sort of soft science, but you can see how that would develop, right? And then you get you know fucked up situations, right, because you have uh, joint Operations and suddenly you realize, you know whether it's just simple protocols or it's more technical, you have got real problems, right because it's not seamless.

This lack of coordination.

the lack coordination.

but it's the same through private and public sector is the same through government.

is same through everything. Yeah what we had mean a major example of nine when you didn't have federal, state, local law enforcement and the entire community all on the same page communicating, sharing information, um taking you targeting and saying, okay, who's got what on this you know let's all put IT together in the one big picture and see if that makes sense, right? None of that was happening.

He was good again. IT was all silos, right? Bureau's doing there thing. A D, C was doing their thing and to say was, you know, gathering there until state and local, you know they were worried about their own issues and then that there wasn't this coordinated effort um there wasn't, you know in part.

Yeah, I was a supreme failure, right? But it's it's gotten Better a but it's still you know it's still not there. It's it's a human endeavor. So it's never going to be not perfect. But still talking .

about china and the he has threat degree of rival ness, you've mentioned that china is playing an incredibly long game, but i've also heard that their birth rate decline and the potential reduction in the volume of their population could be pretty catastrophic to any plans that they have. How much truth do you think is in that? How much is china's plans going to be mitigated by the fact that the population might drop in off a lot of the next few years?

Is a serious I mean, SHE you know has come out whether his governments come out with the program basically says fuck more um I think that was the actual title of their program um and you know create more babies so you know as a population is probably the most popular thing .

he has instructed .

to do know a husband way not that I wanted to. This is country. Yeah yeah yeah exactly. Just lay back and think .

about Greening country. So jan country, yeah.

so it's a IT is obviously, if the governments were about IT, it's a serious concern. And if they had the whole one child policy for a long time, obviously that was going to a lagging impact. So I think that they they're trying to get ahead of the curve, uh, to some degree.

Um what did you can imagine? You know it's like I get anything else. You know you can you can say, okay, I we've got a we ve got a problem here. We can see that they're going to be a short follow or gap. So let's get on IT, but there's always going to be a lag.

Um and that was done um again, going back to nine eleven, there was a real awareness and after that, that in a hot wash that said, look we we um after after a major goal, know after a fuck up after something happens, i'm sorry, have to something happens, then you sit down as a whom you know who ever in charge and and and elements that are a responsible sit around a table and say what they happened and they've done some assessment and so then people put on the cards on the table and say, this is where we fucked up, this is where we should have done, this is how we have to improve IT. This is how we mitigate the risk k going forward. And so that's essentially a hot washing.

You do that after every fuck up. And so after nine eleven as part of all that process, there was a realization that the agency in C I had spent ah had an over focus on on six the signal of intelligence and technology right and had gotten away from the recruitment of spies. H the agency is a pretty simple organization.

You steal secrets is steal secrets that address national security concerns, protect national security interests and so that you know yes, you can do IT through uh, technology. But ultimately you also need human sources. You can't get away from from the need of human sources.

But they kind of did. They moved away from that. And so I guess my point is the directive was we need more people.

We need more officers who were out there in the fields, recruiting, gathering intelligence, getting human sources. That's where we we missed the boat to some degree. Here we did.

We lost track of the importance of that because we got a namee with the technical side of things, and we started putting money and resources. There had fewer and fewer recruits going into traditional Operations. And but that there's a leg my point being is there's a leg to that right there.

You ve got to recruit those people that can take years. I think that china takes years and you they got to develop, right. And then so then you get whole problem of the time IT takes to identify a develop recruit, you maintain a source, right? So that's a long lag time.

So things these things don't just happen uh, overnight anyway. So that's where I think with china, you know, they probably got a problem, but I I think there they clearly are aware of IT, so they are dressing IT. Um I could you imagine here, if we looked at our demography, we get a problem. You imagine the White housing. H I got a job for all the americans.

Yeah well, speaking of that, in the sort of population in the U. S, i'm reading more and more about the number of military age asian men coming over the border. Mexico think hawaii as well kind of has a little bit of this problem.

Um yeah, a little bit. It's mostly the southern border OK and it's a shocking increase, not like seventy three percent increase. You are on your um in uh in the folks from china crossing over the border. Um now it's in its education. You point out it's mostly single males.

Um you don't want to see when you're when you're an intelligence or in in that world you don't want to get parent right right? You don't want to see a spoke behind every corner, right because that will eventually um jm up the ability to get done yes so um but again, playing the odds and and thinking about you know probability, does anyone imagine that the chinese intel Operatics, which is incredibly well resource and motivated, would they actually look and go? Yeah I mean, maybe this makes sense. Maybe we wanted put a handful of people here like they have spent decades um putting their own people from uh you know actual intel Operatives to co Operative contacts through the U S. Education system.

Yes, i'd seen that the number of kids that were at university somewhere that turned out to be some yeah C C P.

sleepy agent ent yeah or or and often times they don't even have to be you know that I mean, we imagine that as some super spy doesn't have to even be that to take CoOperative contact with someone who is you know maybe they're in their bell foot. Maybe they're know their family a little bit extra sumpin back homework, some consideration.

whatever you hearing.

Yeah exactly. You work with this and that's great. And then eventually you get a job at whatever an important U S. company. Or they don't even care they've because again, they've got got a long term through.

So theyll send someone to grad school here that and again, you don't want to say, okay, so every student is aside, that's not the fuck. And we were told it's it's just they're doing IT, right? And we know that they are doing IT. And so the idea that they're not at least taking advantage of a poorest border for other reasons IT would .

be pretty remark. But if if A A mexican family with a dude that's got a stick with a band dinner and a fucking satur .

attached to the back of that riding the rails, know you .

remember those like IT. Was that older?

Something like making coffee and cannot beans. And yeah, how about you? A good heart guy.

if you thinking that they can across the border or yeah, but the the C C, P isn't going to be able to facilitate.

Or you know the iranians aren't to look at IT right, and think to themselves, you know, all bet we could get some people over and .

this is a real fucking problem.

It's a real fucking problem. And I look at its a real fucking problem from a national security point of you are also from just just a look we had the incident down in athens, georgia, right the four student Young twenty two year old girl just the other day, right you went for a job brother day like goes for a job um on a public trail you know and gets attacked bund force drama killed and they've arrested dum and illegal immigrant fell as name is a ebara from venezuela who cross the border I think with his wife and maybe a kid Young kid um I think through l patil maybe and then in this bag in twenty twenty two.

So this is a history comes as well, crosses the board just walks over. They released because they don't have room in the detention facilities, so they just releasing people sort of a mass parole idea, right? And they they released hundreds of thousands to this.

Again, they call a parole, but ah we don't have room for you. So you go you and i'd like you to show up in a couple of years, right? So they go to new york. First of wall, he has to run in with the lab in new york.

They released him on back on the streets and he makes his weight on authors where I think his brother from venezuela is residing and then now is uh banked up for uh murdering the twenty two year old nursing student who just goes for a parking jog and um yeah and and now the interesting thing I want to get distracted here, but the interesting thing is, is how is dealt with? Obviously, it's going to be a political issue, right? Because IT deals with illegal immigrant and the border is such an important issue going into the election.

So yes, it's going to become a political football. But the way that the White house decided to deal with that, or democratic strategist, I don't know whether anybody the White house was clever enough to do this, was basically to say, hey, you want to blame somebody for this sad death, blame the republicans. They just blocked the bill in the senate that would have provided funding for ukraine and israeli, taiwan, but also for the border.

So IT is the republicans fall, because for the past months and a half, theyve been stone walling. Well, that's implying that people are stupid enough to think that somehow the millions of people who have cross the border in the past three years just came across now, right during the month and a half of the republicans have been jack s and around up on capital, not doing anything. And so that's that's the level of stupidity that they hold for for the american public.

Now there are people stupid enough to believe IT, right? And there's certainly are people partisan enough to buy that line of crap. Yes, republicans fall that this poor girl got killed because this guy came across in twenty twenty two right during the three years at the current White house, is kind of ignored for variety reasons, border security.

But so that's on a personal level for U. S. citizens. But on a national security level, we have no idea of the millions and millions of people who have come across, invented, right, and released into the country.

We have no idea who they are for the most part, right? We have certain ly, have no idea how many bad actors there are. And we've caught the the hundreds on the terror watch list, but who knows how many others because we've got an unknown number of known goto ways. We ve got over two million as an conservative estimate over the past two years of the current administration who have got through without any contact with enforcement. That's just a guess, right? And so there's you know no idea how many bad actors have come across and that if the government's job is to protect its citizens and governments jobs protect its citizens, then I don't know how you argue that they're doing to find job because if you don't have a secure border and you know who's coming in and out, which is why you have border controls for every other country, you know you don't have a secure homeland.

but it's not a country anymore. Just like an extension of what everybody else, the territory of the countries that are around you, tim Kennedy was telling me that there was this guy who paid on the news. There was news report going on.

This guy just walked across the border and turns the Cameron say something like, amErica will know my name. And then facial recognition turned out that this guy is on some watchlist. God.

but obviously .

not clever. Yes.

I am clever and I am going to be famous one day.

I mean, fuck, where is now? Yeah, yeah.

they didn't stop him. No, because, I mean.

IT was just a new reporter. Yeah, I was going to do hold him down. He doesn't know.

But what .

about the trank inventor route? Is that you know how that's getting in? If we got idea about how those drugs are getting into the country.

well, I think to some degree, the government will argue that most of it's coming into ports of venti, right? And and that you know there's truth in that, right? H, you know, it's not as if know the majority of arctics.

Where's find alone? Anything else is coming in on on, in backpacks. You through, you border a crossings outside of ports of venti.

But it's both right. It's all, it's all of the above. And so IT goes back to the same thing.

If you have a tight border, IT makes IT more difficult, right? Why wouldn't you make IT more difficult for narco traffickers, right? And and bad actors to cross your border IT. Just I again I don't understand the rationality behind that yesterday.

Immigration policies in the states can be improved right? And yes, immigration has always been um a way that a country improves itself right? But not by just you know letting IT and millions of people who you don't know who they are, right? No other countries is going to do that, right? And yet we act as if okay, right? Or that anywhere .

else on the planet that's doing that.

Now look, we had them, I think probably going to get these numbers wrong. But I think the largest mass migration uh that you know of of modern times has been in the eighteen um eighties. I think when you know ten million or so people came from europe to the united states, we've had seven million people in what the past three years come in.

I'm not sure how we how we imagine that somehow we have things under control. everybody. Look, the problem that president biden has is that as soon see, you know, the democrat strategists looked at this problem.

So yeah, we get an issue. Obviously, the poll members are showing, so they're acting on this because it's an election year, right? Three years. They didn't do shit. And in fact, they did the opposite of shit.

They, they made IT worse. The action ethical, and we shouldn't be. And look at the separation of children from families.

making asylum easier, making parole is your um so they actually created A A more poorest environment. And but I think they look and they go, guy, we can do something because the elections coming up, the poll numbers are so bad. So that's that's why they're acting now as if, well, like what we did, we try to push this bill through the senate and republicans thought, okay, if you're going if you're going to Normalize five thousand people all day before you take action, maybe that's not quite what we're talking about here. But uh, so they they've got you know and I think they all knew that they could push a bill through that the republicans .

would would back off. That was me.

Uh, so they've got this issue. But as soon as he talked about taking some executive actions, then he got a hard push from the hard left, right.

And and so all the progressives on that site said, oh, don't you think about IT right? Don't even think about like doing anything that's trump like, right? IT all comes back to this bizarre world that we're living in now, where there's people willing to imagine the president by and got bless more all get older though and I forget all the time right but but to imagine that he's not possibly the best candidate right for another four years um but we're going to vote form because the other option is trump, right that's the world we live in now um it's you know I don't know, I don't want, I don't want to get two cynical but I think, you know U S. Politics is kind of fucked right now.

Yeah.

that was in a rocket science statement. Cry out. Well, did you hear what mike said? That was a that was revelatory.

I've heard some new information to, yeah, and I don't know. I've been here for two years now, but he was observing, with great interest and entry, more like A A real life reality T, V. show.

Yes, global consequences the election in twenty twenty. But I don't think that this is gonna any Better. I think we've seen know w twenty twelve was the last uncontested math, uncontested election. I think that twenty sixteen we had this a collusion to twenty twenty we had stopped a steel. Twenty twenty four there is no way I mean, it's like, you know it's one all going .

into over time yeah you go back and did have the hanging chat depict you with with bush and gore? H yeah and that was a you know but I IT was mild compared to um so no I I agree this is not going na be any Better. Look again, you don't want to put too much stock in polls and surveys.

IT does seem like they're been consistent over the past handful of months, which is that you know those survey, none of them more particularly exciting. In fact, they don't want a rematch of biden and um I think people are if given other uh, alternatives, I think they would they would go for um I think the democrats kind of boxed in. I think they know they have they've you've got a problem here.

They're gonna a need some well.

they got to clear the ticket, right and so by that, I mean, if they're going to move by north the ticket and how do you move kala Harris off the ticket? How what's the optic of saying we're gonna ask kala Harris, uh, a woman of color who's spent the vice president, uh to to step aside for a White dude from california.

I don't know that the democrats are going to go without optic, you know, aside from the fact that who might to say but cma herr's may have may have fright swap may have floated to the top in a spectacular way despite her abilities and competency like the law. Okay, I mean, everybody, he's going to cork. No, but still.

Um look, you happy yourself. We get in this world where we're picking people because they they you know they take certain boxes, which is a ridiculous thing to do know. I think we'd all be Better off if we just say we're going for competency, right? And who's the best person for the job. And what they could have done was done her a favor by saying we're gona pick the best person for the job and the picker, right, rather than saying we're picking the woman of color.

If I get not the ah a firm of action thing is patronising to the person .

that gets action. What hampers with handicaps .

because yeah .

actually so so i'd i'd never quite understood the notion that you would say that rather just saying i'm going to pick the first and then go pig I don't think .

anyone prepared to eat that lie had been pushed ford with camera house so the country might be stupid but that not that .

stuff yeah yeah and .

I don't know know you now .

now you're right yeah the remains of this is gonna .

gonna well but yeah dugas mary went to um the streets of philadephia and you seen this trank crisis the happening there and this this is like fatal fatal and it's for people for whom harn wasn't enough and then they moved on something stronger and that wasn't enough and then they moved on something stronger and IT causes closer people's the limbs are falling off and the shines are eating themselves on the .

street crazy yeah and it's and it's also a fine demonstration of how um that world works right? You're always chasing the next product, right? You always chasing because you know you've got a shelf life on the current one, right? Because eventually, you know people are going to be looking for the next kick, right? And so we worked counter arctics in the ency for years right before we won the drug.

And sorry, it's a terrible so we didn't win the drug worse. Um uh drugs drugs won the drug worse, right? Yeah and so so uh but we were working counting architects and you know you could you could take a tonic gear off the street and never would affect the Price, right? Because it's so much out there and there's so much demand.

And yet also there is this massive product development. You know it's take this this global um production uh effort that they are always looking for the next uh product to put out there. So you know it's it's always going to be something coming down the pike, right? And that's just the kind of the history of narcotic ics on the street is there's always the next bit of gear that's going to hit the street. And it's the iphone fifteen.

the iphone sixteen, six, thirteen. Yes, no. yeah. It's one of the it's everything is working. So cohesively, from the synthesizes of the drugs to the designers of the drugs, to the users of the drugs, to the people who might have a incentive for a country and it's populous, to become more demoralized, less healthy, more of a burden.

Generally on society, everything spins up to be that no people are going to take drugs, but just wanting to take drugs. You don't need a big global conspiracy to turn amErica into a bunch of walkings on bids. Yeah people will happily do that on their own.

Yeah I think I think this there, husband, this line about know china and contributing to the final crisis in order to know, take down amErica and and again, look never saying never, you know, as as they are talk among steel, you know some the backroom there that says, well, this is having a real negative impact on the west.

How about that? You know, do they view that as a downside? No, you know, but is that driving the drug trade now the the the demand right out there.

the dynamics of drugs and the driving the drug.

right? yeah. And it's super depressing. It's one of those things that you look and and it's i'm not so much up to figure this out, but i've always been fascinated by the the risk appetite, right? And the you know it's it's like the kids to go to a party at somebody else's house and they open up the parents medicine cabinet.

They wouldn't just like take a handful of whatever to see what happens, right? I i've never understood that mentality, right? That says i'm i'm willing to just give me a go and see where where IT leads.

Think people get that one step at a time, at least with what we're talking about here. There will be a little bit maybe i'll start drinking and then i'll start smoking weed and then i'll do some crack. And then you know, before I know i've blessed my job.

And then one of last much ba, yeah the fact the U S. Doesn't have a social safety net like we do in the U K. You know, especially for health.

If you've got a mental health problem or physical health problem, you'll just get picked up and put into the hospital. You'll go to A N know, the N H. S isn't.

I think it's A A bad, a bad solution to an awful problem. But IT is be Better than no solution, significantly Better, you know. And this is the difference.

You can tell the difference when you see homeless people in the states, the you shouting things at themselves, a lot of the time sort of shuffling. They've got a Brown bag with a fucking unbranded glass bottle inside of a sweet god. It's much more sort of skippy and aggressive and forthcoming. Where's in the U.

K, if you get down to that level of mental health disorder or or distress, you just come in, someone comes in and sweeps you up, right? And and the this isn't it's not a perfect system, but you know you will be given medication in a place to live and fucking a bed and a nurse that will say, this is what you got to free. You got biology. So you whatever whatever, uh, that's that and you don't you don't have that an unfortunate you see, you know front center downtown of every major us city.

Good loss angle is egg dyed by some of these had not which called communities so whatever but it's yeah it's it's shocking but you're write it's it's the complexity of the substance abuse with the mental health with the um you know I see no hope you know i've got no way to get off the .

street I can't .

afford what is the point trying um with the I think that the sununu of local and city and state governments that look at IT and think, well, how can we can just throw some money at IT and solve IT and without saying, okay, this is a very layer complex problem. We've got to solve several issues here. You can just put somebody in a home if they got substance or mental problems and you've got you got a deal with those, right? And so you're right. I mean, you know web and it's also a much larger population um and so it's it's becoming increasingly visible.

And so yes, I am not sure .

there there's a there's A A lack of movement. IT seems on the part of most major cities to try to figure out a path forward unless the chinese .

is coming to visit.

yes. And then, and then then you just take a host of the antis. You, you GTA wash all the shit off the sidewalks .

and of the the needles. One of the things that i've been a particularly fascinated by since since moving to amErica and even beforehand, is the difference between how three letter agency Operatives are seen by the general public from a brand and positioning perspective, and how armed forces, veterans and acting soldiers are seen.

Because many people, you know, tons of my friends, that have been in the seals and then gone into the CIA and then face out of that, too. So it's like a single pathway for some, and some people just go into one of the other. But IT seems like thank you for your service.

Something that said to somebody that was in the armed forces, your part of a globalist network of shells trying to to destroy the country is set to someone from a three lateral agents yeah and what do you think going on with the optics of poor brand power? Do you know what i'm talking about? Positioning of the people who are serving the country. But one is seem to be unequipped ly, almost unequipped ly in service and the other one is not too sure you trying to take this down from the inside and we even trust you.

Yeah that's there's a bit of a uh see change there in terms of how people view certainly the C I A in the FBI right over and it's very disarming, right. But yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's it's A A lack of of a trust right in in those organizations because the the narrative that they become just political tools, right? And that's a very dangerous thing.

Um what I mean is A A political intel abara is a very dangerous thing, right? But the narrative that he came out, I think is an odds with the reality right now. Yes, you can have you know A A senior person leading and organization has been appointed by the president whose you know you know enjoys that top government.

And and and you want the relationship right? You want the dialogue. You always to say that you want the the C I, A director ever see at the table you know in in major discussions because that's important right to because you you're asking this agency to go overseas and and do things on behalf of national security interests.

So the director should that access and in the FBI director, you know same way they're leading the the federal government's key long force more organization right and yet um the narrative over the past handful of years is really shifted to the point where you know there's an element of society right that use the of those agencies and in most of its on the far right right that says, you know they are they're very political. There are overly plica. They need be torn down and destroyed and then rebuilt you know, by whoever I I vote into office, right, which is a fucking fourth world way of looking at things, right? Because that's what they do.

H you know, over season in some of less developed nations where they're just willing to say, okay, now i'm in charge know i'm clearing out the intel Operas and put my own people in and that's that's exactly what they do in a banana republic. I don't know if I can say banana republic anymore, but um so that's not what you want. You can do that right? So this idea that you tear down these organizations and start over against is bullshit because the vast, vast, vast majority these people just want to do their jobs, right?

The the FBI just wants to get out there. They want to solve uh, a variety of problems that face the nation from the enforcement perspective and and the agencies, you tell what their tasks are, they get out there. They do their task.

They say what's the next task, right? And and so and not one of those people that sit roni s oh my god, these organizations have been yeah know. Could you argue that some of the senior management now became too a namer of of a of political you know uh power player or or h administration? Sure, right? And you never want that to happen.

And so you have to ensure that you've got enough proactive, inquisitive, questioning people within the the groups proposed to senate until committee gresson's entire uh and others who are supposed to ensure transparently the degree possible but uh yeah I don't know how that narrative shifted. Uh, very glad that we still have sort of the respect for the military that we do and it's incredible important and we what's the numbers now? It's like less than one percent serve in the military.

I mean, that's that's incredible. Very few people, very few people. As I understand, I have skin in the game, right, and understand what IT means to serve.

And I think that's a problem too, right? I think if we had more people, Young people, who, whether an obligation or not, but somehow served, whether it's through the military or through government service or through some form of community service, if you had some skin in the game, I think you might develop with a somewhat different view on civics and the importance of of the government and what's best for the country and and might get outside your little bubble. But it's not .

demons scenario. Yeah, there is over, barring nameless, faceless shadow organization that supposed to be a part of you, but is maybe keeping you down. And yeah, if one person from most families in one form has served in however IT is that they do IT, then you think are, well, uncle john, he's not he's not one of the bad guys. I know that he's not one of the bad guys.

right? Everybody, everybody is put a little time in again, not the draft. I suppose we're never gonna probably lesson. And this is a major uh, conflict when I going to a draft.

But um but some fashion um some service at some level I think would change the dynamic for the Better. But um for for right now, look, I think of the weapon zone of D O J. That's a big topic, not certainly on the on on the on the right.

And you know I think that's .

that's the result of justice dis functional political nature that we've got right now, right? You can't you can't find people living in the center anymore, right? So you've just got people screaming each other and thrown hand age at each other from both sides. And so naturally you're going to attribute the other side of doing all sorts of the furious bullshit and get up to all sorts of things.

And I you know again, um I don't spend my days you know stand up my neighed wondering what the deal jays up to but I have a hard time believing that they're completely a political weapon of the current administration nor would be of the next administration of the previous one. This again, governments are very large bureaucracy and and my experience, again, hey, everybody is got different. But mine is that most people just want to get on and do their fucking and job and live their life.

Yes, what IT is that? What most people misunderstand about the C I A. Do you think that just people trying to do their job?

Um yeah I I think um the agency um is is taken heat um like the FBI has. And I think again, I think that part of IT is the narrative has been driven out there in part. Look, I mean, again, it's it's a well only we've the agencies taken heat for a long time.

So I want to say it's a recent thing. And go back to the church commission and you go back to you know some of the the other issues that the nc had. Um but yes. The the, the people I worked with were fantastic, and we never SAT around and some safe house and some shit tle somewhere. You know, talk about politics and nobody gave a suit about politics. So maybe, maybe my time is past, and maybe now the new crew does something different, but I don't really think so ah I think that um on the Operation side and certain ly throughout the agency, um the vast majority people know what their mission is and they do IT honorably and they do IT um without any pats on the back right nobody like you said walks up and to say thanks for your service you know because don't know what to help they're doing .

ah and they can talk about yeah .

you go you go to your grave you know keeping a lot of secrets right and that's where should be um so yeah people take IT personally in in a in a can impact moral right when when you're not used to this idea that somehow you know you don't expect people to go there and go man at C I A. That what a great organization, but you don't expect to walk around and go. We should tear IT down, start over again. What else out about .

when you're making sacrifices, when you you're away from your family, when you're doing things in dangerous situations, working hard.

late nights, right? And not for money, by the way, when I, when I started, I has not think about to see all the day I was laughing with with the with my wife when I started and we are doing some crazy, said I was making seventeen thousand dollars a year, seventeen thousand. I was not doing that to get wealthy, right? I don't know anybody who does now still to this day, right? It's not that's not what you do you doing IT.

Because E L, A, it's entertaining at times. It's very interesting as chAllenging and you feel like you doing something more important than yourself, right? So that's that's you can get a quality life issue maybe and anyway.

yeah but service in in intelligence, you don't get the same level of positive enforcement from the optics of what you did has to be I mean, I think about this all the time. Let's say that there's an incident and the emergency services are called. An ambuLance turns up and everyone is so relieved. A fire truck turns up and everyone is so relieved. The police sign up and everyone is so angry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. actually. So why are people? Yeah, phones come out. Yes, I bats going to have, here's the police. You think, i'm sorry, you want to do this job.

You want to go out there and and confront situations where you have no idea what's happening, right? And you have no idea what you're going to encounter, right? But you're doing IT right.

And look, are bad actors. yeah. Are the folks that need, you know, need need to be removed and the folks need Better training. They can always. That was, I think.

But I drove me crazy about the the defund the police movement, right? You want a Better police force than you need to actually fund them. You need to spend more on training, right? And I consistent training and in future training you've got that's what you do um you don't defund the police. Now we're dealing with the aftermath of some of that in some locations. Um you know that was that was a bizarre little point in .

time with the problem that that trend created wasn't just an encouragement of underresourced police departments IT was the optics of what recruiting future members of police teams will be like yeah who wants to go and take that job? Who wants to go and put their life on the line of their safety or work late night or not own a massive amount of money or do a thankful less task al, push papers around the desk or whatever job IT is whatever part of the big cock of the law enforcement mechanism you are part of, who wants to go to that? You want everybody does that.

Everyone would love to have a boss that appreciated the work that they did, right? And and if you walked down the street like this is one of the things that you're right to say it's good that veterans and this is mean we don't have in the U. K.

There is no equivalent of thanks for your service in the U. K. We don't reveal are veterans in the same way.

You know there's no one walking around with vietnam veteran cap on, I don't think i've ever heard of acting a british military. Please step on the plane first. I've never heard that be called right in british airports there. So you know, we don't have that.

That's not sa poppy day and maybe that's .

about IT where people get .

out of of the eleven remaining world war two veterans, maybe more.

But that that was contested last year. But you know, there was going to be all of these protests from middle and middle st. Uh, protest is gonna have a problem. There was gonna interruptions for the parade.

I don't know whether I actually came out as bad as the as the top the puppies were being ripped down because this is part of some colonialist imperial alist thing. You think that it's so boring, it's the same thing over and over again that there is some part of history which is unforgivable and that we are personally cursed with this. Know.

yeah. Can take churchill statue you down.

Stature you down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read A, I read this letter the churches father sent him after he was admitted to sand test on his third attempt. And it's only bit of IT remain, but it's churchill s. nineteen.

And his father says, if you do not change your ways, you will become one of the the hundreds of social waist rolls having completely squander all of your potential. And IT is just like best churchill for like a full page. And then he signs off by saying, your mother, center regard.

mother, mother.

son. And I remember thinking to myself and make you feel so sad that there is this guy that probably, you know, defeated the nais that just rolling through europe. They hit, they go through one country, another country, another country, another country, and then they just think that they going to do the same in britton is the first time that they encounter any resistance, is the battle of britton is the first time they actually get pushed from, anyone know, is the first time they ever got push back from anything the world of, okay, maybe this isn't, maybe the thousands are right in the arian race.

Isn't this inventive gable a force that we presume? And I bet that at the end of that, the churches probably still didn't feel enough, you know, that he'd managed to complete all of this stuff. And he Carries this desire, recognition and validation and acceptance by the world into his motivation to do the things that he did, and even chamblin as someone who wasn't built to do what he needed to do, very famously in his resignation speech, says, this is the one thing that the nati can't see.

They couldn't imagine someone putting their personal pride to one side in order for the good of the country. So he steps said, said he makes the sacrifice in a very different kind of a way so that church can then step up. And I just think, god, I you know, there's this new series on netflix called world war two.

I think it's called from the front lines of something. And they've used A I to make fork and full colour all of this archivo tage available. Eight episode series, awesome. And you know, so much more immersive. Now you can see .

IT in full color. And they they are coLori zed, uh, some incredible footage and improved that. I was, I was amazing.

Well, IT seems less IT makes IT feel much more real to to see in that way. And i'm watching this thing and thinking, you know, this is IT was one of the first times in a long time that I felt really proud about some of the things that the U. K.

Had done. And then like I say now, for all of the problems that we the there is over an amErica k dos IT doesn't reveal the people that have served IT doesn't have even the same kinds of benefits. You know, you can go to a fucking in, Dennis. And probably if I showed my military service card and probably get ten percent off, Dennis, no.

And they still, they still do. I mean, you write, I mean, you point out the airlines right now. I'm on delta the time and and one of the things they do is, you know service, active duty and retired board first, right? You .

included .

in services. Ment, no, no, no, I am.

wouldn't I I.

I the military, i'm sorry. Military, uh uh so they they do that. Yeah church church of um so much what he did yeah driven by his childhood and sorry of this this feeling that you know he was always trying to get affection from his mom and a and his dad was a, his dad was A A bit of a hot mess but fascinating character um yeah but then the photo out after, you know hey we want more or two OK sorry you're out yeah and um you know it's it's fascinating stories I just reread the three book series of last line which is a fantastic but look at its it's uh history of churchill covers you know a bird to death and it's a lot of detail but it's very readable, able and it's just IT .

but is a lot of IT. But what did you what was some of the things that surprisingly .

the most learning about him? I think oddly enough, i'm so i'd read a lot about, uh what were two history his relationship with rose revels and and uh so the war war two section, although probably moved the quickest, was the most was supervising I think that the the latter part right and also sort of prior to that his his involved with the uh the irish troubles. Uh, that was very interesting, I think.

And but then afterwards it's getting out of the world to and how his political career kind of stagnated. And then and then research and I was very interesting. Look, there's also there's also a book written by his physician, lord moran.

I believe I was I was the name of and he had churches uh okay, once he passed away to write up his notes and into a book, right and he traveled with church all all over the place uh the conferences and throughout the world war two as a personal physician. And it's a it's a great book, not I D, I try to trying to member the name of the book, but it's it's written by his doctor. And again, and moran was his last name, moran.

What was he saying about judicial state of mind? His physical health .

is mental health. Well, it's not IT wasn't you know there IT wasn't like a kissin telephone, right? So there was no shocking .

negative revelation anta .

tic at four, which was really surprising but so it's not like today were you know the idea of you get. You know, uh, a contract to publish a books and you're expected to produce something shocking. And you know based on your experience, uh, I don't think that was the case.

That was that was fairly complimentary of a church. Al, throughout, right? Uh, he obviously had a great deal of respect for him um but I did talk about his um the various things this capacity for um no enjoying his own ideas and hearing himself speak uh his capacity .

for drink .

yes yeah um but his um his ability to um manipulate conversation to get the result that he wanted right and and he you know he is ability to win an argument uh because of his ability to verbal mastery yes I was pretty remarkable so um yeah um what was that I was a that .

that movie .

the dark style you just see that there was a good line and there body he took the english language and sent IT the war you know during this is uh famous speech parliament um but I think yeah is a fascinating character I I that's I was an original comment about like this bullshit about okay, we have to rewrite history and remove you know memories of churchill because of my god look at was a racist product of time right? I mean things move on, right? So things happened in in a time frame. We should be smart after to understand what the context .

was and move on what the sumption there is, that people are so fragile that they can't deal with history. So just like i'm not want to quote this guy, but there is a left to stream called husson arby, who a lot of people have huge problems. I agree with an essentially nothing he's got a fomented line rea as analysis is not just fiction, analysis is not justification.

Looking at why something I could doesn't mean you agree with IT, right, right? The alternative is to just sort of plug ahead in the sand and have be completely ignorant of IT, which makes you even worse off. That's putting you a real disadvantage.

Yeah, it's speaking of churchill. I got sent for Christmas from a friend. I got sent sum of the champagne that he drink.

Yes, yes, yes. I got sent a bug of that. And I learned, I learned from him, the churchill commanded them to make a special customer size zed bottle.

Did you know about that? no. So he found out, in his opinion, a half bottle was insufficient and a full bottle was too much.

So he commanded them to make a pint bottles of of of that champagne IT IT tastes like Sparkling apple gies phone enon yeah um and yeah A A half brother was too too little and a full bother was too much. You wanted to be able to the function but he needed and IT was not followed him around. These special bottle would follow him around to all of his me, every single lunch.

Me would always have one of these things. And I thought that that was, that was fantastic. He make IT a little bigger, not that big.

Yeah, I I mean, is he was crazy.

I mean, some of the things that, well, one he was on the front lines, he went to the front lines, but when he took his bathtub with him and he had a bad tub in front winds so that they can bathe, right? So I mean that it's a little these little stories that they are incredible about the time, right? It's because anyway, there's there's a ton of those in in in again, the last line of people have some time on their hands and they are looking for something part yeah three three books series and they want to dive deep into .

a um it's well worth you have .

the theodora al hitless physician .

no no that's a fascinating individual.

So um I think this may be the very beginning of old or two, perhaps just before hitless suffering really badly with indigestion and stomach and sort of good issues and he finds thea doctor, the omoro who is sort of a doctor who uses the all manner of homeopathic sort of progressive remedy but he recovers maybe by fluke, maybe actually through whatever IT so he immediately, as all manic people do, proclaims that this is this going, is a fucking medical god 啊。 And now where is part of the inner circle? But the rest of the inner circle, absolutely hated in hymne detested him.

Gorbals detested him. He was very messy, was a horribly loud eaa was he was breath with stinkers, superbly on clean. So, you know, the clinical manner of this guy that was the personal position to the future was just not that direct.

I would be sort of traveling food into his mouth. And he was a really fat sort of guy. And by the end of the war, the concoction of drugs that hit lows on is absolutely insane.

So he's getting injected with boll semon. He's on basically math these on a concoction of stimulants, uppers and downs. And then you know this a really famous meeting, I think, between human muslim and um he just completely flies off the handle. And it's supposedly due to some concoction issue of some dosia issue that happened that day and Morales, writing in his diary about the furo was this way today gave him you know he's just actually .

tracking is all stuff .

can check in woop and from one thousand and forty five, well and there's a bunch different documentary just such like a theat omoro online. So interesting. But yeah, I wonder, I mean, if IT wasn't playing enough already this .

isn't me trying to excuse head look yeah.

get. I wonder how much of the mental demise and complete insanity, you know, we're going to try and go east into russia at the same time as we trying go north into france, as we tried to defend, you know, as we try to go south into africa, how much of that can be attributed to this guy just being in a stupid, you know, propped up on this cop tail of drugs by this total quack?

Yeah, yeah. I'm still thinking about you. I am not trying to dismiss .

this is action. I yeah, yeah no. You just dg, IT was on street to fill. Yeah.

like he was. He wasn't. He wasn't thinking straight. Yeah, yeah. It's at fast. Well, I definitely looked that up because I I didn't enjoy this lamer and small book on on his experiences as a for general. So I can imagine this is the same kind of thought process.

The inside, the level of intimacy that you have with a physician is very high. And it's the things that you maybe don't even admit yourself about the fact I have had that pain in my knee for a while. But you know how much he's that impacting your sleep? How much is that impact? You know, all of the things online.

But yeah, I had a bad day and you just, you know, gets a shot of bull sea and says that let's invade russia.

Let's do IT.

Yeah yes, let's do. But this can work out well for us. yes. Uh, although he did, he did assume that was gonna very little time and if if I .

hadn't been for the that winter, I think that they could have maybe continued to steam all .

through yeah well, I think that that certainly played the the the key role. I think um he was getting advice against IT but h that never you know sway what he was doing. But I think that there was there was this a black of appreciation of size of vastness, right? And and what that would do you and our supply lines. And then all of the trucks got stuck .

in the mud trying to resupply. Who was the guy? Who was the dude from his inner circle that custom edited the fuel tank on a plane and flew to scotland to try and persuade the king.

IT was one of his god damn, IT was the dude. Anyway, story is sort of one hundred forty three, forty, forty four, and everything's kind of the stale mates. But the germans believe that the british think they're gonna overrun, and that kind of just waiting for this, they really don't understand the church s going to keep on pushing. So this guy gets one of the bombers to be fitted with long range fuel times, custom built. And then without any that IT, without informing anyone, him himself flies because he had once met appro.

He meant some due custom money, someone that was part of something and decided to fly himself from germany to scotland and then jumps out in a parachute thinking that he's going to be welcome as and though I know what's fascinating here, there is another great series on netflix called the churches in a circle you think um ana IT shows the house swade everyone's opinions became because the political backbitings of wanting to be the closest to the eagle's nest to hit the ensuing and often and yet this guy was adam basically was driven by the sort of love for validation and this unrequited desire to be part of this in a circle to be back in IT, was good Graces that if I flew to to scotland and did an obviously you just immediate to gets taken to prison and and that doesn't happen and apparently hit the finds out about this and just you be waking up one morning because he wouldn't wake up to have these math field diatribe til three in the morning and no one would leave. No one would be able to leave as he's there and he's shouting and screaming and doing all the emotion 去了 and everybody get islam。 Yeah and then the next day you wake up, yeah you wake up one day you find out that some blogs and the bomber and land crush land in scotland jumped down in the parachute.

Don't hear that every day if you're it's a bad morning, but you know, luckily your doctors, what was his name moral?

I let's thank you up yeah I intuitive machines, first ever commercial vehicle to land on the moon. That happened didn't .

that happened that that thing happened? Um yeah I you know I guess um didn't a tip over its side still Operation yes.

still work and .

be so optimist ah um yeah I mean, IT is interesting. And when you think about where we're going with that, what are we thinking about? I mean.

we going back to the moon soon well, yeah and .

there's still that talk about that i'll fuel the desire to go to mars and and um I don't know I mean I I I I lived through was a Young Young person but I did live through the moon landing and you know that whole initial russian excitement of of a of moon charts and what that matter and that sort of feeling like, okay, we're just put in ducks tape on things and find under the moon and and kind of was the way I was right, didn't have that calculation too right?

You can imagine nowadays trying to get and we can see that in terms of the bureaucracy of nason and nation now realize on private sector um to try to push this whole process forward, right. But you know people got fatih pretty quickly back in the day, uh, with. The moon shot, right, was like, okay, go going to the landing again.

What's the point? right? It's lobo, like ukraine. What's the point? Are we we spending all this money? Same concept, no novelty anymore. Um so i'm not sure you know again, i'm definitely nobody y's turning to me for scientific insight um but I I am hopeful that if there is a vast upside to this that the government will do a Better job of explaining why it's important, right? But I do imagine that you know that is best days in terms of resourcing are probably behind IT.

And so that this drive towards the commercial side, I think that's terrific and innovates a lot um and get going back that conversation about the sharing of information and uh in sight between the government and private sector, uh is a good example of why it's important. Yeah um you know the agency uh you know there was A Q tell right designed to try to Foster that development of more technologies uh, out in the private sector. Um so that's a that is an ongoing process.

But I looked at the the moon landing here and I guess, you know, maybe i'm like a lot of people, but I was like, ah, okay, we landed on the moon. great. Yeah okay. Now what right? I I maybe i've disappointed yourself not being more fascinated.

Well, I think you, whether we like IT or not, much of what we're doing is an attention in an optics game. And you know, for instance, you remember a red bull street tos to remember when a felix bomb gotten jump from the egypt ACE? yeah.

no. And you've got I think it's like a beefy clear song. Is this like beautiful voice and it's like a rock song and it's made into this perfect trailer and the whole thing was tracking IT was live streamed and drama is not get into the all this stuff. And I remembered looking at that and going, that's that's like, that's amazing. And he going nowhere near the moon.

And so much of IT is not understanding how humans interpret things, not understanding the second, third, fourth older effects of, okay, and what happens if we released this? And what happens if released that? And what happens down streaming death on the police? What happens if we do this? Well, it's going to damage certain communities and it's going to discount vize police officers on which are the communities in which are going to be the most damage by this, what the ones that we are trying to save.

I think that nasaa and anyone that wants to achieve public support and interest anything, should be looking way more at advertising and human behaviour and psychology more than that looking at logistics and Operations and deficiency because you need to get buying an excitement from the, I mean, do, if you did, to go fund me like some, you know, like an equivalent thing to be. Like, do you want? You will have, this is how far you move the rocket.

You know, your ten dollars moved the rocket, like, you know, like one millimetre or whatever, like, however you wanted. Do IT incentivising people like that, I think, would be so great. And we have the opportunity to do, as he said, that how is IT that we've managed to get so much more advanced and so much less efficient? Yeah from NASA being able to just put a on, where is all of the technology in the world know your smart phones more powerful than the entire room that NASA had in one thousand eighty five or whatever IT was and the fuck and thing fell.

It's I just imagine you like this this character from wali. Do you remember that movie, while is fantastic movie, forty five minutes into IT before they had the first piece of dialogue, right? But you were captivated by IT.

But anyway it's neither or other but I think yeah it's the the um um IT it's the the messaging and I I guess in part a good example of that would be ukraine. I think the government, the U. S.

Administration in particular as done a terrible job of messaging explaining why it's important to the the public and continually explaining and talking about IT explaining why this is important um to the us a if they believe IT is right, then why and why the moneys necessary and how the moneys being spent. There wasn't ough transparency around like ukrainian has had a very bad reputation of corruption for decades, right? Very corrupt country.

Lots of problems. Document mended. okay. It's not. So there should a bit more awareness that if we're going to throw billions and billions dollars over there, that we should also have an effort to ensure that they're some transparency, more transparency than their husband in terms of how it's being spent, right? Because that's also in ukraine in's best interest right to to battle or to be seen as battle and corruption to ensure they maintain .

the to extend the longevity of support.

Yeah so what do you get? You get, you know there have been a handful of of a corruption charges. You know, some dismissals over there in ukraine, I thinks, lands to understands he's got to be seen as battling this problem.

But the U. S. Government, on its part, hasn't done a good enough job of explaining to the american public why, you know, and and how it's being done.

And I think if they have, they could have tamp down some of this, right? But you know it's also coming from unexpected place, right? The right, right? The republican party, for the most part, is seeming to be the so now you get the democrats in the position of being the warhawks and the republicans being, when I know, you know, let's focus on U S. First, you know and you again this idea that we can multi task course, we can fuck in more test, we should be able to all of these things right border security worry about this um you know deal with international crisis. But um sometimes IT IT seems like know where unable to to do that where we we we go from one problem to another problem without seeing understand that everything's connected in a way right.

Is the is there something that unlocks at least the beginning of these problems? Is is a potential root out of this to just improve interagency communication? Is IT to be more transparently when IT comes to the public, like there's a lot of issues.

There's a lot of problems from the political standpoint to the military standpoint, to the international standpoint, to the supply change, the drugs, the immigration alter. Are these all individual targeted problems that require very specific solutions? Are there some fundamental unifying threads that are problems kind of throughout all of these, that if those were unpicked, at least would would free up some stuff downstream?

Yeah I think there are some um commonalities, I think, between some of the major issues that we're facing. I think one of the problems said the government notices administration any administration is a recently has has been slowed understand as is again the the access to information that the public has right and they've been slow to understand what that means in terms of how they should deal with the public right.

So I think you can you can side step some of the um some of the the the reluctance of the public to get behind, you know, whatever IT may be, border or security, what why is that important? Why do we need tight border security? Why do we need to support ukraine and effort against russia and adventurism? What what's the point that so I think that's one one element.

Um I think A A common thread with a lot of the problems we face in the U S. anyway. It's from a political standpoint. And by by that I mean, I think something that would I believe this anyway maybe other people think is bullshit. But I think if we had term limits, um I think that would be a really positive for hood p for politicians, for for congressional senators. Right right.

Yeah because we do for the present, but we don't right right.

So I think if we had you know if we if we were able to figure out away, I think we will to do that. Then I think you take you start to take some of the self interest out of IT, right um know nobody should be sitting up on capital hill s seven eight term senator.

Create the same issue that we have at the presidency though, where people just try they don't have enough time in office to be able to get anything done and different incentive.

Yeah I think if you give up give give every congressman uh congress person I guess um to four year terms right now, it's two year term at to your term is not sensical, right? It's based on you know, when the nation was found that and then washed, the D C was a swap and no one wanted to be the excited get back to the the the farm.

Um so I think if you gave every congress person to uh four year terms and you give every senator to six year terms, I currently run six year terms but not in perpetuity, right? So it's it's it's absurd when you look at IT um and and you realize the self interest involve the the the wealth that some of these folks have built up over multiple terms of being and watching the D C. Earning a fixed government salary.

And IT is a fascinating actually is a really interesting uh stock tracking uh system where you can invest based on what eliza warn track ah don't it's fascinating。 And and I think but if you take if you take the self interest out of IT and you take some up to the some degree the special interests ability, right? Look, if I know that you are going to be the head of the ways means committee for you know forty two years.

So whatever i'm i'm going to act a certain way and i'm going to invest a lot in in my relationship with you, right? If i'm dealing with somebody who's only there for two terms, right, eight years or twelve years of your senator um yeah I don't have the same hook. I do the same ability to long term influence you and push you on a certain way for a regulatory concern. So whatever might be um again, you know the the push back sometimes has been um you know you need to be here I think ted Kennedy is to say no to be up for a long time before we can understand all the interactive rules and how IT works, thinking that just sounds like someone who doesn't want to be replaced yeah it's like an IT director who creates .

a system indication .

to the public .

limit to potentially for the people that are inside of the system yeah anything else yeah .

um you know in terms of in terms of some of the common you know problems that face. I think there are uh issues, whether it's border security or you know four policy decisions that are separate, distinct from each other. I think, uh, so I I I don't know that I clever enough to find the comment thread that binds all those together, but I think I look more terms of how do you create a more functional government, how to create something is more effective and with less uh, self interest and you know I keep come back and no campaign finance reform uh if you need to spend forty million doors to get yourself elected.

I think that means the system kind bullshit um if you can explain your position to your constituents you know for okay, let's say a couple million dollars then there's something wrong with this system right where canceling out a large number of people who could be very qualified and very well meaning but I think most same people look at the system the way is now and say I would never throw my head in the ring for that yes yeah he doesn't any sense. So but self it's kind of self limiting in a in a determines a certain type of person who goes in the politics. And I it's again not probably anything new. But um now I every now that I D like to get up on the term limit soapbox.

yes, yeah. I was reading just this morning about australia has built the biggest navy since world war two or that that plan now the largest fleet that will have had since the end of the second war, said defense minister Richard Molly on tuesday, outlined a decade long plan to double its fleet of major warships and boost defend spending by additional seven billion dollars in the face of quickening asia pacific arms races.

Yeah, yes, china's influence? Yes, china's been massively aggressive over the past decade in building out there the milk, the navy in particular. And so that's a direct response. Um you look at um japanese, south korea. Um you know it's it's all the same concern is the aggressiveness of uh china, particularly in in the short term in the self pacific uh region which we've always viewed as there theyve always been irritated by the fact we ah the the west place are role there um as far as are concerned their turf so but they've been expanding their uh military opening in the first time. Uh foreign ports got that.

They do that thing where they make basis out of little islands right and extends like the boundary of what is china.

Can you explain what that yeah just making artificial um military facilities. Uh they're not much to look at there. You know that maybe starts off as a shoe and then you just know you just, you know, come in there and poor bunch of debris and concrete in tar market and lexing. You know you got an airstrip, you know and then you you know that part of your territory and that that can impact your uh, international waters .

claimed because whatever like ten mile radius around all of these and more of these, you can claim.

right? And so you I mean, yes, there's a lot of conflict. The Philippines of vietnam spring islands is an example. There's there's a lot of conflict over this in in that region, but most people look at IT and go right really it's the Philippines versus china.

Think that yeah but the the alliance that we have out there, the ossian alliance and and and others very important in terms of not you know it's it's tempering china's global ambitions, right in a sense, right? And and there's a lot of nervousness there. Look, time on we have even touched on the issue of what's the future of taiwan.

I mean, like they rolled over during the pandemic, they yeah they literally put out the last a little bits of democracy and hang kong, right? Nobody gave more because people have got to head around the idea that o and know it's china to get a game over but you know we are all looking over here to pandemic and you there's no more remind of democracy or democracy movement in haggle. So they were successful there.

Taiwan is a you know it's it's a different animal. I think it's a slow game for them. It's a soft takeover.

Think is how they're envisioning that. We always imagine others going to be an invasion of taiwan. I don't think chinese military arian SHE in particular that look at that and probably go and to chaotic. They don't like chaos. They don't want anything that's necessarily unpredictable.

But they also look at at our support for ukraine and think, okay, you know, so what? They'd be upset with us for a couple of years, right? We going to get back to their own business. So I you know the the the idea of one china policy um and it's been a comfortable kick the can down the road concept for for forever.

Uh but I think that if you look at the timely, when do they really want to bring taiwan back into the fold? I did get to look at SHE and say, kay, is he going to leave office without doing that? Or does he want that is key legacy, crowning achievement.

So I think then you look at SHE and you look at his health and you look at ten year and how long as I gona last and you think, okay, maybe sometime within that period of time, is when this a move? I D who knows? So I mean, that depends, again, that depends on its health.

That depends on, you know, I did not so much internal politics. He seems to have a massive grip on there, right? You got to go back to male maybe before you find someone who had that sort of luck on things.

And he is fortified. The the um the the security services right and is removed kind of the concept of rule of law. And you know some folks would would disagree say, ah it's a great place to do business and yeah you have to do business there.

You know it's not you don't you don't decouple from china. It's not possible in today's world, but you have to be more pragmatic about IT, right? And um you know so I think we have to be aware of and companies are I think the most part nowadays, it's Better than IT was even ten years ago.

But nowadays, you know, the companies that we deal with a in the private sector, you know, they're aware of the factor. If they start to go over to china, they build a factory, they build a some sort of research facility that intelligence, that information, that proprietary dad is going to a end up with the chinese, right? They can't protect IT, right? And so, but ten years ago, a longer, you know, that was a thought.

Well, how do we get? We keep our IP safe? Well, you don't, is the answer. They are going to have IT.

And so and a lot of companies are happy to sign agreements that basically allow that, right, because they want that market. And so in china, always counted on that, right? We're the holly grail of commercialism you want to sell here. So we've used that to their advantage but h anyway, the taiwan thing I think is is more of a simple um calculation because I do believe that that SHE doesn't want to walk off into the sunset without having that happened in his time frame.

So anyway, very spicy. Yeah I don't know. Mean, I mean, being a citizen the even cares remotely about the future is a very, very scary and confusing like world.

And like we've stuff happening in the middle ast and the stuff happening in the the the the northeast of europe, and then the stuff happening in the forests as well, then we ve got things happened at home and. Body crisis now we got twenty twenty four election and that's happening. And then you've got the general elections gonna en in the U.

K. And you're right. You know all of this stuff know the dude in alza dodges got elected in eighty five percent approval rating in them, put like half of the country in jail.

Then you ve got this guy in argentina. You got that guy just like, and it's just this. So much up upheaval and our access to IT has never been more seamless and and instant.

And IT doesn't surprise me, the people kind of checking out, losing faith in media, losing faith generally in in their ability to sense, make, you know, to confusing time. And you might say, well, you know that you have the opportunity to discern the information for yourself. Would you rather not have access to? And I will look more information is good, but also comes a basic cost. And the cost is that everybody now has to do there on sense making. And that's .

very also feel. And you know I I don't think there's that many people who can just check out either because they don't have the the means or you know they just don't have the ability to to say OK i'm not onna worry about this is still gonna worry about things, right? And you can see that the x some people have on social media about shit that they can control, right, but yet they spend time focused on right, or the anger that they have over certain things and you think, okay, dial back a little bit. There's one thing to be informed, another thing to be um you know um outrage.

How do you how do you given that you need deep in all of these stories and stuff, how do you by vacate that emotionally for yourself, how do you not get too caught up in the potential turmoil and and .

catastrophe tico, yeah um well, I think you have to know your limitations, right. I'm not not impacting much other than my family, right. Um so I think you have to you have to look at IT from that perspective. Um the agency, also the agents, I learned I learned that I I think if I had to think about most of what i've learned that has been really valuable to me um has either come from my time with the agency or um for my family and dealing with my family and an understanding how best to do that uh or my time with the agency and and the time with the agency.

They they they there was a lot of things that you could pick up if you know if if you thought about I sometimes didn't realize that at the time but a one of those things as you can you you you're not there the impact, you know great decision making, right? You're there to do a task. You're to do something right.

And I was never one of those people who SAT around, in, in, in wonder to myself. I wonder how the seven floor r is going to deal with this, right? Or cheese onder.

Why they made that decision on this policy issue? You know tell me what the fucking and job is, right? What's important right now and and then do IT and then move on to the next job, right? And so you develop, you know unless you're you know over thinking things, you develop a certain ability to just compartment ized 这 and and then move on to bit yeah and also you realize that there's not that many decisions on the decision tree。 I R our branches on the decision tree.

People get very rapped around the access over you know what to do? Do I go here? Do I do I move right? Do I move left? Do I do what? How do I deal with this, this problem facing IT. And if when you when you look at a problem, usually there's not that many options in terms of what you can do to resolve the problem, to move on to to to have some resolution. And so I think the was was very good about, you know, having you understand here, here's something happening.

What are my options? And you and you drill down very quickly and realized I got two options and remember be I got three but one of kind of bullshit so now I got to again um and so you learn how to do that very quickly. And I I think that that proved to be really, really valuable.

I mean, I got out. He had no business experience, no business going in the business, right? I just I people thought I was insane to leave.

And um so I started IT with A A really a great friend of mine who came out of the british teams and we had no idea what we are doing but because we had similar uh backgrounds and experience didn't matter, right? We just look at OK, we've made this decision. Now what are our choices? And our choices were very clear, right? Do this.

Do that. okay? Now we have done that. Move on. And we didn't overthink anything, right? We just kind of march on, accomplish a task, then moved on to the next one.

And IT was all because the list for me, anyway, the insect had kind of talk you that, and IT also touch you to make a decision without perfect information, right? A lot of people sit around a way to gather all the data, right? People love dad. And now, because it's so readily available, and the inc. Taught us very early on, you know that if you sit and wait for that happy day, when you get all your information, some bad going to have .

lowering action for a child a little bit.

Yeah yeah. So that window closes or you know, next thing you know you got everything is going sideways. So you learn to make decisions with imperfect information, right? And just move on and and not sit around a stage of fucked enabled and wonder whether I was the right decision or not.

And I and I never, i've never been one of those people. I've never SAT an axy and thought to myself, just, I done that I could do, you know, because I don't see what that that benefits anybody. But so that's that's kind of IT. I tried I tried to teach that to my boys that life is not as difficult as we try to make IT out to be right.

You you know life can be fairly simple, right? And you know what you have to do is you have to decide you're gna work a little bit harder than everybody else, which is in a hard because there's a lot of you know there's a lot of folks not working as hard to say good. And if you do that, then your your results are that much bigger, right? You you stand out that much more because you're willing to just put out a little bit more of trying to teach that to kids is tough because in at that age, the envision that is going H, I can do that.

I mean, that's that's i'm doing everything I can. They have no idea what they're capable of doing. So when you say you got to work a little bit harder and then you realize those benefits um IT IT can be a difficult process. But that's, I think, one of the most important things you can you can teach your kids and also also again, not to not to make life more difficult than IT is right.

And and that's that's been my primary objective with my boys, you know is and my daughter's who's grown up now she's terrific kid, but the boys are Younger and and so trying to get them to understand that and to push themselves a little bit harder. I know everybody wants the same thing. You want to produce productive, you know, good people.

Uh, you know the world's got enough average people. I know my job is not to produce average know adults you know from the kids that we've got. So anyway, uh, i'm not sure I was going with that.

I think there's definitely an a lure of over complicating things because IT feels sophie cafe to have this high thresh hold information and you know have a very well planned out org structure and this is where we're going to go and it's so and so forth.

Um but yeah, you often end up being defeated by somebody who is just able to move more quickly than you within perfect information here, the baLance between these two things, there are certain areas where I don't think they should compromise on quality. You know, if going to do your press release, don rush IT, you know, when he comes to naming and branding and incorporating and things, I thought you should move relatively slowly to ensure that you're getting this thing done, right. But knowing where the battles for perfection lie are very, very important.

right? And you have to you have to strike the baLance between speed and and, uh, and effectiveness and quality. Abc, uh, particularly in the commercial sector, I I M, we've dealt with with companies that h go into new markets on a regular basis, right? And so they have to do an assessment of that environment and understand what the competitors are doing and excited.

But we've that was very large corporations, you know where their mindset is, like we ve got to get into the market, right? And if we make some mistakes, fine. Well, we'll clean up, right? But we have to be in the market now.

And so they will rush that process. And yes, they make some mistakes now they're big enough as entities as CoOperations to to to recover from that. But if you're a small Operation, right, if you're at starting up in particular, you can afford to make that mistake.

Game over. We game over. exactly. But so IT does depend on IT depends on size. But IT is interesting that that you know I remember having a conversation with one corporate, I can't really name but one um there are manufactured of of a very well known consumer product, and that was the whole point. Now we understand it's going to take a little more time to evaluate the environment, what the competence are doing, but we have time and we were going and yes, they made mistakes and IT took him some time, took a lot of money to recover, but they did. Um so I guess they we're proven right at the day yeah yeah.

my Baker, ladies and gentlemen, appreciate that. Thank you for coming through. No.

thank you, man. I think I really appreciate this. A great conversation, really enjoyed and hopefully didn't.

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Um you know, for all your global intelligence and security needs, of course, there is problems, current group and and we've got to the podcast, which has turned out to be a wonderful adventure, the president's daily brief and it's uh every morning in about twenty minutes you get your top stories of the day, facts and just a tiny bit of context. And then the afternoon inversion is about ten minutes. Uh, get updates on some of the top stories and get to move on your way.

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