#871 - Dave Smith - Why Does Mainstream Media Suck So Much?
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What time many people welcome back to the show? My guess today is dave Smith is a stand up comedian, podcasting and a political commentator. Why do so many americans distrust the media? In fact, how can anyone trust the media when they've been proven wrong time and time again, and is IT possible to salvage this channel of public communication, or is IT dead in the water?

Expect to learn what they're thinks of the current state of the media, why they refuse to ever admit they are wrong, how much the media will learn from the recent election outcome dave, thoughts on users leaving x for blue sky, the danger of alternative social media echo chAmbers, what dave thinks about the libertarian party and much more. I've won wop for over four years now, since way before they were part on the show. And IT is the only variable i've ever stuck with because it's the best.

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This a few weeks .

for you yeah has been i'm tired .

yeah what do you make of the media performance? This assessment man.

it's like the answers obvious but i'm trying to find the words to really I mean, it's it's not you know, I I view the the corporate media apparatus and not just the united states of america, but in in most western countries, as essentially state propaganda. They might as well be state media. There's essentially no difference there.

Their job is to cover for powerful people and to spin the narrative that those powerful people wish for the clu B2Believe. So I think that's always been true. Like that's not there's nothing drastically different in this last year as opposed, you know, fifty years ago or something like that.

And if you look at the way you know the media lied the united states into vietnam, or something like that, or know this is always what they've been in the business of doing. What's striking to me about the last year is how profoundly stupid the propaganda has become and kind of their inability to adjust to the new facts on the ground. So you know something like, just for one example in which I guess I care about, because is a good a friend of mine.

But so tony hinch, Cliff, when he speaks at at the naught rally in medicine square garden, if you are at all plugged into like social media or this world of internet shows that we're a part of, you just kind of know this. This video has gone viral. I mean, there is, you know you the video of tony doing his insult comic routine is you'll see one clip on twitter that's got three million, another has seven million, has six hundred thousand.

Another has that now CNN, at the same time is getting like two hundred thousand views on the the daytime show. And this show is telling you that a speaker made a comment, had a trump ally. But everyone who seen that is also seeing the actual thing, like they can literally see that you're lying to.

So like you gotta step up here, your guys, you got to a mages didn't just and and the lies, it's not it's not that they're lying. That's nothing. no. But the lies like joe biden in sharpers attack and kala Harris is a phenomenon of joy. And you know, like that they were just so blind that, you know, it's like, well, of course, nobody's gonna fold by this or next to nobody. So I think the best thing that's come of of this election and the fall out since is that even the corporate media has finally, they had to admit that they're not the mainstream anymore and that, to me, has been really fascinating watching them like, well, I guess the real action is over here with joe rogan and with all these internet shows, and not with us, which has been true for a while. You could just look at the numbers been true, but to see them finally have to grap with that has that has been glorious.

the best clicks that the mainstream media now get a commenting on what independent .

media is doing yeah and and for good reason man like you know there's been a lot of uh um the discussion about this lately and you know I had a sam Harris called me out. You have been .

making friends. I como you've been making friends. Yes, yes.

that's right to he has my dear friends Chris cho, sam Harris. And you know what he said was that, you know he was like, listen, you know joe rogan has some comedian dave Smith on to break down the history of ukraine or the israeli palestinian conflict or something like that. And i'm sorry, but that's not what are we looking at this guy like he's the next ten rekissed gers, something like that to be clear, I get his point like he's not entirely wrong. So is sure IT is kind of ridiculous that we don't have serious credible institutions and we don't you know like okay, there's a fair point to that.

But if you're just being honest and not as sam Harris trying to rationalize away why he's not wrong for getting all of the major stories wrong over the last few years, the truth is that look counters like shows like this and shows like the rogan show and shows like a whole bunch of these these internet shows, there's just what's going on is just levels more intelligent and thoughtful and interesting than anything that's happening at n or A B C news or any it's like IT is the domains that I mean, I just was listening um uh I don't know if you saw this but there's a clip one of the I can remember her name but she's one of the CNN lady and she's a she's she's being interviewed about what went wrong in this election and i'm listening to and it's just like domus take there's not one thoughtful moment. There's not one thing where you go OK and and i'm somebody personally who's like I really enjoy reading like brilliant left wingers, brilliant right wings, but you know libertarians, all types of different use. If you're thoughtful and interesting, I think there's something that can be gained from their work.

You know, I am certainly not a left winger that I think known. Chomsky is like like must read stuff like you are missing the game. If you haven't read known chomsky, I promise you you will benefit from reading him and like so i'm just saying if you're just objectively looking at this, i'm sorry talker carles and and glen Green while sitting down and having a discussion is just like years more intelligent and thoughtful than anything that you'll ever catch out of any of these corporate media outlets. And so like for them to all look around like, well, this is ridiculous that we're relying on on joe rogan and dave Smith like OK IT is but it's also for a reason but .

look at the best that we've got. You're right. The fact that the mainstream media is totally bereft of any honesty or useful or interesting insight ah is not good ah and yeah is IT a damming and diamond of our media landscape that we have to turn to you and rogan for like accurate analysis and and insight or at least something which is original or at least something which is said because you believe IT as opposed to because it's what you think is socially acceptable or will tell the party line or will get the outcome that you want.

That's not to say that people don't have their own. Everybody is pushed by biases that their up, but damming indictment indeed and yet who do you propose that we speak to? Its the same conversation. I have this all the time.

Our masculinely people will happily point the finger at a number of uh, role models that are often held up for men and say we don't like them and OK, who do you suggested instead? And there's no one. So it's like, right okay, identifying a problem without proposing a solution seems a unuseful. And yes ah should we be to dave Smith and gear rogan to be like the fucked in harbingers of truth in two thousand twenty four? I alas, here we are here.

Well that's that's exactly right, you know and if a if if the institutions have done a Better job, none of this would exist. I mean, if you think about this, the heads start that they had on all of us, not to mention the fact that these are no, I mean, even, you know, like that joe rogan has the money in the bank, but he doesn't have anything like the resources that CNN has, doesn't have a multi I billion dollar Operation.

You know what? I mean joe rogan, like a few guys, that this whole Operation, and so that I should say something that he is not only caught them, but has lapped them several times over and you know that's that's kind of unfortunately where we are. I get your point on the masculine and so I think it's like the perfect uh, comparison where okay, you you may not like Andrew tate or someone like that, but I don't know for these Young for for A A twenty year old Young man whose had nothing his entire life except is probably grown up without a father, was probably thrown on you know riddle or ad or all or something like that when he was a kid.

Every teacher has been a woman. Every know college professor or any influence in his life has had nothing to say except that masculinity is toxic and that somehow if you want to get up and running, like from the first grade, if you want to get up and run around, that's worse than someone who wants to sit and listen. And my god tell you, as I have A A son and a daughter and IT is, I mean, not when my daughter was.

I remember when he was like a year and a half old, and he would sit on my lap and SHE would stare into my eyes and we play like paddy cake and sheds like, touch my face and because it's so sweet. And my son, from the time he was a year and a half, like if you tried to put him on your lap, he was diving off head first, you know, to go sprint into the wall and then fall down and then either either start crying or crack up laughing, or whichever is gonna be. But so it's like, oh yeah, from the very beginning, were installing in these kids that masculinity is bad and femininity is good.

So of course they're onna look for somebody who could be a route. So again, to your points, like, okay, so if you don't like this guy will then provide something you know that usually right? And this is true throughout history is that usually when I would say usually always when far when far right or far left radical groups actually take over or get a strong foot hold, it's because the establishment has failed on every level.

And you could you pick the historical example? That's always the case. And if the establishment is doing a great job, isn't if we had peace and prosperity and know what I mean, like a healthy society, there's no way you would see the the far left in the far right gaining as much traction as they are today. What do you think IT is that it's all either the bernie Sanders wing or the right wing populist wing that has an attraction among the voters because the establishment has failed.

Is IT people unhappy with the current situation? So throwing out the current order and trying to move as far away from what they see is moderate or reasonable all right now as is possible. Is that the sort of this is here?

I mean, I think so I think I think that's A A large part of IT for shower. And I think that you know with certainly with like Young kids on on the left um there embracing socialism because they view that is the opposite of what we have right now. And as far as like the kind of rightwing populist uh movement, I don't even think you know.

It's been fairly incoherent in terms of theory. It's not really clear. And and I think we're going to see a lot more of that emerged now it's already kind of started to would like the vacuum a swami um and his kind of push against big government rights wing populum and more for like, well, no, that's actually not the best theory guys.

Let's not go in that direction. But I think the the truth is that Donald trumps drain the swamp message is really what resonated with voters that is really like we know this whole thing is corrupt and we oppose that and that's enough to unify a lot of people. I was enough to get meat to vote for Donald trump, and I don't like a lot of things about Donald trump. I'm pretty unified in looking at kala haris and going i'm against that.

Ah sixty nine percent of americans have absolutely know of very little trust in the corporate media. Thirty one percent of americans are retarded as you society not long ago. Uh, what do you think happens moving forward with a sort of trust in media? The I need you gna learn anything from this. Do you think that they are going to pivot or change?

Well, I mean, I don't think so. And I I don't see how they can. And i'm not like the best at predicting the future. I've gotten things wrong in that regard. But even just looking at like the post mortem over the last few weeks, none of them even the ones like there's kind of a split between within the corporate media between the real loons who are like no IT was sexism and racism and that's all that we're going to say about this. no.

And then there's like the ones who are, I guess, up only have one foot off the Cliff who are like, well, maybe you know, there are certain things we could have done Better. Maybe the transit, the kid's thing was a little bit too far or something like that. But even with those guys that just none of them and in in some ways, it's just because they're so strongly incentivize not to admit this even to themselves.

But none of them can really have an honest post modem. None of them can really go like, oh, I guess what happened is that we just consistently lie through our teeth and we've gotten every single issue wrong, every single one of them on the side of power. Like there's not one of all of the the issues.

You know, if you were to just say, in the twenty first century, what has the corporate media gotten completely wrong? And you could list stuff like this humongous that, you know, like from the iraq to the financial recession, you know, cover and know russia gate, all this stuff isn't a convenient that they always get IT wrong on the side of the C. I. A, because he is so bizarre, you know, and none of them can admit that, and none of them can admit that, oh, we were lying when we said, this is a great economy. Actually, we've totally gutted this economy, rigged IT against any honest working class person.

And I mean, like you know, it's like that was one of the major ones that was just unbelievable to watch then pretend this is a really great economy and when it's it's terrible for working people, is that one of the worst economy? Is that the worst, I think, in my lifetime? And so again, it's just you look at them, okay? They have no ability to actually grapple with what got them here and why they've lost all credibility.

And then on top of that, you know and and this was the thing that I think think a lot of people got wrong because like I even saw a lot of people who I kind of agree with respect saying that kala Harris made a huge mistake by not going on geo rogan podcast when he was invited on. But I think you've got at all wrong if you're looking at IT like that. That was a wise move on common haris part that there's no way that won't gone good for her.

There's no way that wouldn't been a disaster for her because kala Harris is not built to be able to speak openly and unguarded for three hours. Her whole thing is she's got ta say talking points because otherwise you might find out that he has nothing SHE does. She's not interested in any policy SHE doesn't have a deep thought on a single issue. And so they have construct. There's a new game in town now.

And what is an amazing precedent that's been set over this last election where now you have to if you want to be present of the united states, you have to go and sit for an unedited, three hour long in depth conversation and trump to do A A bunch of and it's just simply the the case that what the corporate media does, what the progressive establishment democrats do, isn't built for that like that just can't be done there. There is nobody if you're let's say if you're on the side of um transit, the kids or whatever, you don't do well in a long form conversation. Do you rely on shutting down your opponent by calling them a big get and then having censorship and having the power and having the control? You can't because there's just no defending IT. It's not like there's not one single person out there who's a good defenders of IT IT doesn't exist.

Yeah the you may not have noticed this. The other day was transgender day of remembrance. A not to be confused with trust of visibility, which is in march, or trans day of action, which is in june. Uh, last week was the last day of trends. Gender awareness week, transparent day was earlier this month as well.

A california legislature has declared August to be tran's history month pronouns day pronounce day is in october, also in october, y's gender fluid visibility week, non binary people's day, a non binary awareness week, both in july, october designated as L G B T Q history month, which was initially lesbian an in gay history month, and of course, L G B T Q pride month. Formally gain lesbian pride month is in june. So I assume that you ve been celebrating appropriately.

Yes, I I don't eat until sundown on all of those days. What whatever this we're supposed to do, I can't believe you have all .

those memorized luck. There are my calendar. I that's i'm being a good contributing member of society. But yeah this this idea of sort of the media landscape and and it's changing.

Uh, IT really did feel like in those a couple of breakthrough moments when independent media went mainstream. S so the CNN horses, one a thing with you, the one two punch of the android video as well, surely after that. And then a lot of the stuff, her on coverage, lability hypothesis, vaccine skeptic m stuff like that.

Uh, and then I kind of know he came back down a little bit, I think that sort of independent crossing over into the mainstream, we saw a mister huberman have his little h eruption earlier this year. And then the election has just thrust IT so much, I think, into the public exiguous because so many people are invested in the outcome of the election, so many clicks and so many eyeballs are bothered by IT and IT just gone as all of that attention. So yeah, you know, really wouldn't surprise me if within the next four years we get to the stage where this more than fifty percent of the population, I mean, not more than fifty eight, I often over estimate how not Normal the armies are.

And I failed flat on my face. A significant portion of people say we don't want M, S, B, C or CNN to host the presidential debate. We want that to happen on a piece of independent media.

We want fucking rogan and glen to do IT or double murry and fucked in jank yoga. I don't know like you know I mean like we want that. Uh and if I feel like we're on a trajectory, what that doesn't seem as ridiculous as IT might have done only five years ago yeah well.

in a way, what seems ridiculous now would be to have IT on one of the networks I mean, I just doesn't make any sense and I know so many like I was going to say blue check journalists, but that's not a thing anymore. But if you remember back in the day on on old twitter, that used to be a thing when I was the journalist with the blue check and that's how they were like an official journalist.

But I remember all of them for years, just like the riding, uh, twitter and an podcast and to be like all twitter isn't real life and all the podcast brows or upset. Does that even really matter? I remember always looking at this in being like a guys.

It's it's as much real life as the new york times, as real life. Why isn't any is a show? What we're doing right now is a show. There is two people there, areas there is a microphone cares whether it's on the internet or it's on S X, or something like that. It's like the what matters is how many people are watching, and there's just way more IT. There's just no listen if you on musk and joe rogan decided they wanted to host the next presidential a debates, we all know that that would get not more views than if jake tapper were to host that but like by orders of magnitude more viewers on IT. So why is just the more you look at IT on paper, you just kind like, oh yeah, that would make no sense to go in that direction and all the sense in the world to go in this direction and all things being equal, that's probably what .

you're gonna get just to try and play bit of devils advocate for sort of the other the other direction is there because for all the i'd love and i'm apart a and will happily contribute to the general y of the independent media space. Uh, there is a bit of me that thinks what I never went through formal media training i'm not held to any particular uh, standards, fairness and biosensor the rest of the stuff even if the media has totally disregarded those seta seta.

Is there a place or is there a way a case to be made of how we could salvage that other side of defense? The more sort of corporate legacy media thing because I I again, I would benefit massively if everyone just fucked and discarded them and came over to our side. But there is a bit of me that thinks, well, you know, they've split tested a lot of how media works for a long time. They have the money behind them IT just seems like the point in in the wrong direction. And if we could just adjust the direction a bit, uh, maybe we could have two really fantastic worlds that the presented the public with information.

I am not against that in theory, but I I do think that institutions in general, the you, there's a line you can cross of being so corrupt and so evil that you essentially lose the right to exist. You lose your legitimate. And so I think you know if in in nineteen ninety, someone was arguing that, you know, we just need to point the soviet union in the right direction and then you know what I mean, important.

It's important to have these big institutions or something like that. I think you would go like, well, no, they've lost to and I I think the corporate media is well beyond that point. And and by the way, I don't like a from my perspective, I i'm not flippantly making that comparison.

I think it's a well earned comparison and the the corporate media has lied the american people into war after war, after war over the last twenty five years. That is, I mean, millions of innocent people have been slaughtered over these conflicts, which were they weren't mistakes or things. They got wrong. They were blatant lies. And that made some people in the corporate media may have just been parroting these lies and not known that these relies.

But all you gotto look at right to understand, because I love talking about, but all you got to look at as go, uh, forest star general Wesley Clark, whose on tape on democracy now saying that in two thousand one he saw the plans that were not only to go topper of the government of iraq, but also libya and syria and I think, um I forget the other, I think lebanon was in there and there's a whole list of countries ending in around that we were gonna top of all of these governments and then years later, two years later, when we went into to the war, directly said, oh its weapons of mass destruction. He was in bed with uh uh with uh bladon and then when we went to top of the dopy they said he's about to go genocide all against his own people and then when we went to top of assad, they said, oh, he's going genocide or against his own people and they make up the lives to justify the plan. That was already the plan from well before and of this nonsense was going on.

And as a result of those wars, if you add them all up, it's in the millions of innocent people, trillions of dollars wasted, the whole region destabilize. Like if that's not enough to say, yeah, you've lost your gito macy. You've lost your right to exist if, especially when your role was supposedly to inform the public and the role.

Because again, that is, why make the comparison to the soviet union? In theory, your role was to help the working class, your role was to be the champion of the people, and you've been the greatest enemy of the people. Well, that i'm sorry there's no writing that ship the correct answers to abolish that institution.

Where are they committing such separate U. I think that people are losing faith in them. You I think about the last five years or so, I find myself being very sort of non conspirator oral, very like hopeful about institutions. I still think universities is got a strong place to play a seta. And for me, right kanary in the coal mine who's got fucked in lungs of steel to withstand this stuff, i'm like, yeah they suck like they absolutely suck. And I I just it's been face planned after face plant after face plant um yeah when IT crosses over i've got this rule at the parental cloud gage so uh a story hasn't reached real mainstream significance when it's on the front page of the new york times when it's trending on twitter.

It's when your dad messages you about IT on facebook messenger like that when it's really broken through uh like he sent me a message not longer o saying I see your friend mister rogan is in the news again and my holy fuck like this is really, really broken through is another one couple of years, eighteen months ago h that Andrew tate spell T A I T that Andrew takes a nasty piece of work kissy and i'm like wild say you really you really reach global domination. You managed to get my dad in the northeast of england um but yeah and I would I would get the sense that even he is like, yeah isn't really feel right anymore uh so yeah I maybe they are not going to learn and I don't know maybe subject the free press and and live streams and all the rest of IT, maybe that's gona be the next sort of media landscape. I feel like there's a lot of stepping up to be done there in terms of side of the volume.

Uh, and another point I am sure you've heard talked about before, before you taken on uh, the boring stories that get covered, you there is still a place for like metrological insights and and surveys on like really, really boring stuff that the press kind of still has a hold of you hopefully the not fucking about with what's happening with the weather or whatever, but maybe they are um but with that, like you know who's going to come in, who's going to fill that hole? Who's gona fill that vacuum? So yeah, there's a lot of a lot of changes to be made. The, uh, trend the week seeing recently is exit this, uh, departure of journalists and users from x what do you think of this in the move to blue sky and sort of the social media landscape and how that's gna get partitioned?

Yeah well I mean I think there is this um which I think you know if you if you think back to like a around two thousand sixteen two thousand seventeen when there you know whenever IT was that like the a remember that the bench peo and Jordan Peterson and like the kind of like owning college kids video for three yes yet .

you know .

IT used to be like um that snow uh dog song would come on and the glasses maybe smoking um but that and one of the things that I actually think for the time, I think IT was really necessary and kind of a great thing. I I think you gotta move out of that realm of just owning twenty year old at a certain point.

But like but there was something about IT where you would just see IT was like a window for the rest of us who weren't at at universities to be like, wow, there is business tremendous uh, atrophy where no no one's pushing back on any of these ideas and so they haven't strengthened in them. And then the first time they are confronted with someone pushing back in IT, like they literally have nothing. They have nothing like, know, IT IT would be as simple as, like some nineteen year old would be.

Like, you know, I was born a man, but I identify as a woman. And like bench appeal would be like how come you're not a tray and that you put you know like, oh my god, he owned her or him or whatever. And there's just this this dynamic where there's there's been A A tremendous weakening and that you know it's just like it's like anything else.

It's like if you haven't been to the gym and years and years and your week and your muscles have have all gone through atta pat, well, the only answers is you've got to start lifting heavy things again. You've got to pick up heavy stuff and put IT back down and that's the way you'll recover and hit stronger as so that kind of like where we have to go going forward no matter who um uh no matter what side were talking about um i'm side remind me of the question. I kind of based on that where I actually .

going to blue sky i'm sorry.

So anyway so just with all these people leaving IT just IT seems like that to me again it's like yeah after elan must came in in bott twitter and colon was like, no, this isn't gonna a controlled environment. Seen that the a lot of these people they rely on that they rely on the fact that the the opposition is going to be sensor kicked off and they can actually compete in the marketplace of ideas.

And so if those people want to remove themselves from the conversation, fine, but it's that's not gonna change. The dynamic, I don't think. I mean, that's not gna change, which shows have big audiences, which accounts have audiences and if if they want to go there, know, i've thought that what was that one of the the pollsters who got this election all wrong was like, i'm believing and going to blue sky des like what to go get things wrong by yourself, okay? I have fun, you know.

Yeah it's it's weird monkers. If you just say the headline a richman in the world by social media website and then endorse his candidate and pushes him to two hundred million people like just that headline is like, fuck like that. That sounds like a lot, but on the flip side of IT, so many people on the left were happy with the finger being pressed on the scale when I was going in the other direction.

And the question now is, well, okay, is the sense that people have of twitter becoming very right leaning in the suppression of people on the left and the rest of IT? Is that IT? Or is this just to move back to baLance? And what you're doing is it's I going from cold water to luke warm that feels really hot because you were just so used to having this situation before.

I take all, I don't know the people that we're getting suppressed or having their account deleted for most general people or misnamed people or all of that stuff restrictions, all of the stuff that came out, they stuck about for the most part. Yes, there was gab and truth social, but everybody kind of still played in the pool. And IT doesn't a little bit like, well I don't know if if as soon as uh a osa everyone's is like cotman like screw you guys i'm going home to blue sky or wherever else I I don't know.

But the fracturing and the fragment in this sort of um cycling ing of different groups in different social media's, I wonder what that does because it's going to make your own echo chAmber in your own bias, even what the algorithm does that your follows already do that. Uh you don't even have the offset now of outrage, uh, stuff that comes in apart from, I guess, maybe things from other platforms put across onto yours. But then when you see the replies of that, everybody agrees with me.

So I wonder whether the my opie on both sides is going to increase more, given that people are going to across pollinate. H the misunderstanding that everybody has of everybody else's views also going to crease more because you never yet to see a reasonable take. You never have a discussion that brings that, that volume down, although maybe you weren't having that before and said.

I don't know. No, I mean, it's I agree with all of what you're saying. And you know just to the to the first part there, you know I sure I I could see looking at on paper and going hate the richest man in the world, but this platform, he throws his his capital and his influence behind the candidate.

I could understand people having an aversion to that, but the truth is that that is just the way of politics, whether you like that or not. I mean over well over a hundred years so he was at one thousand twelve when widget a Wilson ran for president. Um he was funded by the big bankers and then he got a mail inside the federal reserve act into law.

It's like the most blant exam of like they're gona give you money to win this race and then you're gonna in there and give them control over the nation's credit supply, which still is the craziest freaking thing in the world that is just kind of accepted now as that's just how modern nation states Operate, I guess. But that private banking interests get to print out of thin air money, take IT to create money, and then lend IT to the big banks at next to no interest, so that they can take that money and lending out at interest to the american people or the the british people or whatever government we all of central banks. Um it's like the the most blatant scale in the world and and this goes on all the time.

And so if elon musk was doing that so that Donald thump could pass policy x that would give e lad most billions more dollars, I would certainly be opposed to that. It's a little bit different if he he's just doing IT because he believes in the candidate. And by the way, I mean, know if you're talking about giving Donald trump a whole bunch of money in order get a policy that you want.

I think mariama son would be the one to look at not elan musk obviously uh georgia alex soros or do the same thing for for democrats so yeah I mean that's the game um for Better for worse but and mostly for worse. But to your point I really do like in in deep in my soul I totally feel the same way as you and I feel like everybody should be on these platforms together because we got to share a country so we might as well all be having this argument together. The thing of IT is, is that it's not like we were having that that that wasn't the dynamic.

But if anybody from, say, the I I mean, look, I you know I debate Chris cormon, i'd debate anybody else from the corporate media if they want to do, if they want to come in gage in this conversation in a good faith manner. Okay, let's do IT. It's not just me.

I know I speak for you when I say that in lots of other people that we'd like more than happy to hat. So if they want to IT, that's fine, but they're also in any type of relationship like there has to be standards and just unifying for the sake of unifying is never a positive in human into social you know relationships. And like if it's a if if your wife was like if you hit me, i'm leaving you and you hit her like that a reasonable standards for her to have and like be like, no, sorry, you have to not do that in order for us to be together.

And so my thing is kind of like after like all the years of censorship and all of the years of like COVID, tyrant's and all of this other stuff, it's like, okay, hey, if you wanna be a part of this conversation, well, i'm arguing that you got all of that wrong and that IT was evil. What you did then fine can prove me wrong. But if you don't want to do that and you'd rather leave, fine.

But the standard is gonna be that neither side gets censored me is that's how i'd like to see IT. I've never have been and I don't know anybody, anyone who was like a critic of the covet insanity who was saying that the people pushing locked down should be censored or that the people who were pushing the vaccine should be censored. All of them were saying, let's have this debate.

So I do see an a symmetry here where there's one side that's quite happy to have the debate and the other side that relies on sensor ship. So if that side now was lost the ability to sensor and their that is like, well, i'm leaving. Like like the husband, the husband being like, well, if I can't hit you, then i'm leaving. Well well, okay, then well then okay. The doors right there, you know, I don't know what to say.

Yeah, this is M S, N, B, C story with lake and Riley. You've been tracking this.

I I saw that rogan tweed out the the headline up, but I have not read the article .

basically the the the fact that this person was an illegal immigrant, but is he was an immigrant in the headline of the story, all of the pressure and all of the attention is placed on how he never stood a chance, and how unfair IT was, that he was prosecuted and persecuted in amount that he was a person who killed somebody else, not only somebody else, what american citizen, not only killed somebody else with american citizen, but did IT as an illegal immigrant.

And all of this stuff has just been bury buried new york times with that fruit loops fact chic thing about r fk. It's like the difference between the american version and the canadian inversion. It's not that different except for the red forty in, the yellow three in the B, H, T, lining inside of the bag.

And this fucking the view with this dragon, believe a thing about rogan. So for all of my winslow british sentimentality about, you know, dave, maybe they're not too far gone. Maybe we can am like, guys, i'm a fucking.

This is, I can't burden. I can't bear this burden anymore. I cannot shoulder this weight, uh, just continual, nothing learned, nothing fucking learned at all. And you know what that feels like IT feels IT feels bomber's IT feels like someone who just does not have their finger on the post of what is going on. And that's what I are.

You this fucking doll, this this uninformed about everything because your only job is to be informed yeah and apparently so which makes me think that IT has to be a complicity. IT has to be a some degree of canadians or coordination or or uh compliance as opposed to ignorance. You, you, you can't be this stupid.

Well and also I mean, I think a lot of IT is just being stuck in your ways. You know that all saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks like there's a lot of wisdom to that. I don't know that yet like I feel at the older I get I mean, I remember being like twenty and it's almost like everything as a possibility.

You don't even know who you are going to become as a person, but the older you get your kind of him. I know I know who I am and we're not change in that at this point. Like, sorry, we're far as that mean.

I could thinker around the edge is a little bit, but you know what I mean? The new york times, what was that? I could I saw someone, actually, I first saw IT because someone posted, like, just a screen shot of the text, and I read IT.

And then I was like, I gotta pull up this article. There is no way, there is just no way that this was actually the, but he got that wrong to say he got that wrong. And then the next sentence is how he got IT right.

It's just on but I think so many of these guys, it's just like this is what they've been doing forever. And there's this is what I was saying before. It's it's really it's stunning, but the inability to grapple with this new situation and that the facts on the ground has changed. You are just going to pretend that it's the same old world and and particularly when when the the disparity and audience is so large, you know like it's it's like even winning.

You're still doing the thing and you're not .

even winning yeah like let's say let's say you do a show and IT it's like two million you know views and episode and I do a show and IT gets like two thousand views in episode and you're gonna lie about me. You're going to say, hey. They beliefs all these things that I don't really believe. Well, okay, you know that morality of that aside, that's a fairly effective strategy because a lot of people, we're just going to hear from you and they are not going to hear when I respond you. But if i've got two million and you've got two thousand and your strategy is to lie about me, well, that's a really stupid strategy because so many more people are going to hear the truth and the few who hear you are going to know that you're lying.

And so it's just like, that is right in front of you where you like, what do you think they are? Are you still at? And you know, I I remember in my lifetime when that was the case, when they had a monopoly on information, and they could just lie about people if they wanted to make you, just tell you this guy is a racist, don't listen to him.

And I mean, look, the a rogan and ID video was the my favorite example of that, because what the media tries to do, and this is one of my least favourite sort of parts of the internet, is to take uh, an in direction, uh, which may be an error or maybe actually, uh, something that they commission to do that they meant to say and say, first off, this is what they meant to say. So there's no such thing as misspeaking.

Secondly, after that, they say, this is not one small, isolated perspective or an era. This is indicative of an entire ideology. This is the tip of the iceberg.

And below IT is just bigotry and sewage and transformer a and racism and White promising, what about whatever time they want to throw at you. But the difference with the rogan position was the media was saying, this is the tip of the iceberg. A million, hundreds of millions of people were saying, i've seen the whole ice book. I've watched five hundred, a thousand multiple, thousands of hours of this guy and I I don't think that you're right.

And at that the ability to take a single uh, in direction era vector from somebody who is speaking a lot like inevitably is going to be errors that come out uh and saying not only did they mean to say IT, but and this is indicated proves that they are the transfer, bigger genio braces, whatever that we always knew that they were like. It's such a tired fucking playbook and IT really bores me. And on top of that, IT makes me concerned, IT makes me tread more carefully, because I think, oh, god, like, what if? What if this minor misspeak, what if the way that I put this particular sentence together is constructed incorrectly and then construct in a matter that somebody else can you and like, this is not, it's not fucking cool.

one hundred percent man. And and just like so tear point about having seen the entire iceberg, I think that's so spotted on and particularly with something like, uh, the joe rogan experience where the guy has, you know, I feel because i've done joes podcast so many times at this point, I feel like his I think his listeners have that relationship with me because it's just when you go there, you know you talk for three hours and people really it's not like doing A A nightly news show where you come on and there's this energy of like i'm performing the news now, you know hello everybody, i'm welcome to the nightly news at A B, C.

In our top story. You know it's it's not like that it's not script. It's a conversation. People are going to hear the things that I want to around about, that I want to talk about.

You're also gona see me in a situation where where George throws something at me that I wasn't expecting. And you'll see how my mind works and how I think about things, how I take new information. And you said there for three hours and really got to know.

And i've done the show like a bunch of times, but joe done every single one of them, like the fans who are fans of joe rogan, they listen to him for nine hours a week in there like they know him. I get people all the time because because we're good friends. Be like, what's joe rogan like and you're like, you know what joe rogan like, what you that's what joe rogan like, by the way.

But I don't much time you buy with them, but that's what he's like. He's like exactly what you know. He is exactly the same. There's no act being put on.

And so when people, millions and millions and millions of people who have consumed like hundreds and hundreds of hours of his content, you're gonna say, like, oh, we got to to cancel this cut like you might as well be telling me I got to cancel my wife or something like that. Like what? No, I knew all, all the stuff you're talking about.

I already knew and I knew everything else about IT too. So it's just not going to happen like this. Just is not it's not possible for you to like get in between that very authentic relationship that he has with his his audience.

I think what else that does and you can be whichever media form you like， you even sub stack to some degree to sort of friction listeners that people are able to publish regular blogs on, whether its personal reflections are stuff from science, uh, the a daily blogs.

I love the fact that a lot of a vlog editing now seems to be moving down from the whole limbic hy jack thing sam sun is like forty five minute chest and backwards out video, which essentially unedited right? There's no flaught does does no nothing. There's no curation.

Um I think what all of this does is IT throws into very harsh light the much more created, much more perverted, molested world of the person who show rogan's a dragon believer. And you like talking, what do like your so either malignant are out of touch. Those are the only two are options on both of those mean that I shouldn't listen to you yeah .

and this has always been one of the worst things about you know what you kind of touched on just now. But one of the world things about political correctness or like voguish, as it's called now, is that IT does like when you set up this system where there's like there's like third rails everywhere that you're not allowed to touch, and if you touch them, you're supposed to be ruined now. And that is supposed to to find everything about you.

What that is, you know, it's that might work for really dumb people, but for anybody who's IT all intellectually curious, it's like you you need people who get things wrong sometimes. And some of the most interesting thinkers who i've always loved reading, you know, they get certain things very wrong, but that same person might get something else right in a way that you're like, well, I never thought about IT like that before. There's a lot of a figures like this who are kind of like, you know, very provocative thinkers who might say four things and one of them you you kind of agree with.

The second one you think is dead wrong, the third one you think is willing ly offensive, and the fourth one you think is brilliant. And you've never thought of things in that way before, you know and like, who wants to get rid of that person? Those are the best people. Like those are the ones who are really fun to like me through kind of, you know, stretch your own brain by thinking about what they're thinking about and what you agree and what you don't agree. And I hate, and not just hate, but I like very bitterly resent anyone, whoever tries to make me live my life that way, who tried to make me be like, well, am a little bit concerned about talking about this topic because people might think i'm a bad person.

And in fact, part of the reason why those types of people are so important is because when when IT really hits the fan and there's like totally italian ism is on the rise and everybody's falling in line, well, who is gonna who's going to have the personality type to stand up and be like, no, i'm against all of this. It's it's not forrest conventional thinker, you know it's the people who are outside of the box. And so yeah, joe definitely has some views that are outside of the box and he likes getting into conspiracies and he likes talking about like all the stuff. But at the same time that I think to most people who who listen, at least that's part of what makes IT so fun and interesting.

What you mentioned libertinism a couple of times there as A A card Carrying member. What do you make of the what do you make of the place of the liberian party and position at the moment? Because IT seems to me like the right is going down and the left is going up. So you've got sort of this split, but I assume to you there is more down to be done and less right that would be .

that would be useful. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that the way I look at IT is that I think so I mean i'm i'm A A libertarian. Forget the party a libertarian terms of my world view because I I think that the um the greatest struggle in the history of humanity is between tyranny and liberty and I think that liberty is the is the key to a moral and prosper society and that governments are agents of aggression and that they bring uh they bring nothing but destruction especially when they're out of control and not rain in as most current governments in the west are in terms of the party, there is you know third party politics in the united states of amErica is uh, the entire system is rigged against third parties and so there's you know, the prospects of like the libertarian party out take taking over the republican party or something like that is not happening anytime soon.

I did think that uh, Angela mcCarter, who's the chair of the party, did a phenomenal job this year in really kind of reimagining the role of the third party that is pro liberty and was able to get up a bunch of uh, concessions maybe is in the right word, but assurances from Donald trump before he won, and hopefully he comes through on at least some of those. But I think that I think that what you know, I what the country needs is liberty and what and what the world needs is liberty. But particularly, you know, in the united states of america, which is what I know the most about, and even in Donald trumps, you know, like this, drain the swamp, clean out washington of corruption.

I think the libertarians have a lot to add here in in an understanding that the the essence of the corruption in washington, D. C. Is that the government is so big.

That's really why IT is so corrupt like definitioned. That's what when you have a government that spending, and I think we're going to top seven trillion dollars this year, is the biggest, most powerful. Zone in the history of the world.

And they they get their money through the threat of force. I mean, this is not like it's a big company that just has a product that everyone wants to buy. They get their money because they say you pay us, or where we will throw you in jail.

And then they print the money which robs your value from you. Or they can borrow the money, which is just a promise to tax you in the future. What when you have that? You have an organization that is extracting wealth from the american people and then handing ing them out to their political chronic.

And this is why there's more millionaire in the suburbs of washing washington, D. C. Than there is anywhere else in the world. That's the corruption that's IT right there. And so the only answer to this is drastic cuts in government spending, which I will say with like the dose stuff. I know it's not like an official government department, but IT does make me excited that that is, at least, you know, inserting that idea into the consciousness of the american people that like this is what joining the swamp actually looks like.

Yeah, IT must be terrifying if you're one of these lots of skeletons in your closet, middle management bullshit government bureaucrat people. IT must be like the spector of an autistic guy in an indian guy bearing down upon you like, oh, my fucking god yeah and especially .

like an artistic at an indian genius like they're not even just a random good like how man, these guys are really good at getting stuff done to yeah I think there's a lot of that. And I think, look, I think this really explains why there was such uh um insanely hostile attitude tord Donald trump since two thousand and sixteen and you know I know um uh joe played on his podcast a bunch of times, but a bunch of people love to look at like Donald trump on the view right before he had won the prime mary is and like he wasn't that guy he wasn't a guy who everyone had an allergy to and thought was the next ht IT wasn't until he started saying drain the swamp and and actually looked like he was gonna win and maybe even mean IT and try to do IT that all the sun is you had this history from dc and I think what you just said explains that perfectly like that he just terrified all of these people who on some level know that their parasites and on some level mode that they do not perform a useful service that they could voluntarily get money for.

We saw elon do this at twitter, right? He got rid of some absurd percentage. That was just him.

And like twenty asian guys, yes, I remember that self you when he first, he first started a taking over. Yeah, it'll be really interesting. I've thinking a lot. I had this conversation with superior a few months ago about.

What a lot of the right has done for the last five years or so has been the sort of rebellion, voice of righteous, you know, you you're able to push back against overreaching political correctness and victim hood ideology, identity politics, song. And and now that everything that you could want has happened, you have the much more difficult task, which is to actually fucking deliver change. You have to actually make something happen, and you can't just complain from the sidelines about why is this not happening and so on.

And so full. And that was a huge part of the failure that kala had coming in side. Are you would change candidate? Or do you have legitimacy because you've already been in office? Well, if you go after the record, the record fucking dog shit.

And if you are a change candidate, you need to throw your old bosses to the bus. So you don't IT was very difficult, difficult sit for, heard to play. And you heard this like, what would you would ve done? What would you wish that by not done differently? What would you would ve done differently? And SHE gave this like fing forty five minute round about of of of nothing at.

But yeah, I really am interested if, as IT may be true, the sort of weakness will be retracted, not just from the mocking against from the other side, but even from the left. I like luck. The fucking first thing of being of doing government is to get in power.

We didn't manage to do that. We need to change tag a little bit. And if that means that there are a fewer places for you know commentary or on the right to push back against for sort of a sort of news stories that create those myth of Martin m flags that get planted in the ground.

I wonder, I wonder what difference in a dynamic we're going to see uh, over the next sort of four years because that the rebellion, nature speaking truth to power thing you really get to do that you are power. You're fucked in in power. Make something happen .

yeah no question. I mean, it's a um it's very easy to criticize something and it's much harder to build something and particularly if you're talking about um you know draining the swamp, if you're talking about uh cutting down on the corruption in washington, D C, you're talking about taking on the most powerful entrenched interests in the history of the world who are very prepared to fight for what they have. They're not going to give IT up voluntarily and they're not going to give IT up easily. And you can already see a lot of this happening where you know say like Donald trump might say on the campaign trail, oh, we're going to deport all the illegal immigrants and even he just uh, reaffirm the other day will use the military to deport all of them you know like, okay, that's very easy to say try implementing that because you are gonna resistance on every level and not just unlike you like local law enforcement in blue areas um but activists, the media, every story of some you uh humAnitarian catastrophe that happens along the way is going to be blown out of proportion .

treatment of simple migrant that's been evicted and from that child which which inevitably .

will happen if you are actually trying to deport every single illegal immigrant and so then where's that might be great campaign reheard c, then you have to make a whole different calculation when you get in there, which is like, okay, how do we actually accomplish this? And this was really the failure of Donald trump in his first term, is that he didn't have any I he had absolutely no plan.

I mean, like he may have had some ideas in his head about how we will do this, but I don't think he ever really understood how deep the swamp was or what they would come after with. It's like what and they did IT to him right away. You know, Donald trump ran in two thousand and sixteen on, let's have date time with russia.

This was a major theme ous two thousand sixteen campaign. He is like, you know, flad mir, putin's in syria, because he wants to hunt down ISIS. Here's okay.

We also want to get I S, I don't care about overthrowing bioassays. Let's get along with russia. Let's make a deal. Let's kill the terrorists together, and then let's get out of the middle. We don't need to be there at all. Like, okay, alright, that sounds good, that a good campaign idea and that would be a great policy if you could implement IT, but then your frame is being a russian spy.

Well, what are you going to do now? And this is how they what you going to do now you're going to go make a deal with russia because that would have just been proved to the american people that you are, in fact, of russian spy and the whole media saying you're a russian spy and now you want to make a deal with are putin. So we couldn't do that.

So we had to back off of the inner. And like there's just there's a lot of things like that, that are it's much easier to be in my business than IT is to be in Donald trumps business. And and in his business, he actually has to figure out how you can manipulate this machine in a way that you can get things done.

That's no easy task. I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that I have all the answers i've had to do that. I don't think the answer is giving marco rubio the state department, but that's just me.

We'll say, yeah yeah it's a it's funny to think about I I I found IT really fascinating that even trump was kind of of its surprised when he got into office the first time and didn't have anything prepared. Who was the staff is supposed to go through?

What's the process that you supposed do with this? Even if fucking Hillary had got in, at least you've got evict like the husband can be like, you know this is kind of the way that IT works um and then this was the whole, I guess justified argument behind project 2 twenty five which is hey， last time he got in any had a blank piece of paper what just trying to kind of play A A A game plan even though still don't know how much a part of that he was or wasn't a but this time you've been in this world for coming up on a decade you've had on the ground experiences. Last time you had all of the evidence to evil. You have everything that you need. If IT doesn't get delivered, that will be a big egg on face .

yes for sure. And and especially this time coming in after this guy has been so burned by this system every way you can I mean with the exception of jack Kennedy, no american president has been more burned by the system um and so you ve got that now he also has not only A A much bigger Victory than in two thousand and sixteen, but he actually won the popular vote.

And there also has been incredible cultural shift where IT IT seems to me that kind of the the shock troops on the ground, meaning the people, the kind of useful idiots, the Young leftest who would protest Donald trump. Um the antia and black block and all those types there just doesn't seem to be the same energy there. Like maybe they're just tired.

I think they've been distracted, but because they've been protesting the war in gaza for the last year and I I think first of all, I think they're right to protest that. I think it's an absolute outrage. But I think it's just very tough that when you've been protesting women and children being slaughtered all year, it's very hard turn around and now protest tony hinch, Cliff crack and jokes and spare garden.

It's just kind of you know, it's it's hard to get that energy going. But because of that, because in two thousand and sixteen of Donald thump had held a big event, medicine square garden nerd have been tens of thousands of protesters outside. There was nothing, according to the secret service.

I think there was like a hundred was no one showed up to protest. So all what i'm saying is that Donald drum p is uniquely set up this time to be able to get these things done. So if you can't get them done now, that's that's a real shame. I don't know maybe, maybe the future will be even Better, but or even a Better opportunity. But at least in my lifetime, i've never seen an opportunity like he is right now, control of the congress, control of the supreme court, winning the popular vote, not the same resistance behind the o let's let's drain some swamps.

Pressure is on dave smith, ladies and gentleman. Dave, fucking awesome man. I really appreciate, appreciate your work. 我是 people。 Go keep up to date with all the things that you do.

Oh, a part of the problem that com is a that's what my my podcast is and all my stuff is there and then i'm i'm coming dave Smith on twitter and i'm all over the place. Part of the problem is my podcast. That's all. Thanks so much for having me, Chris. I really appreciate.

I appreciate you too, just.