#872 - Dr Mike Israetel - Exercise Scientist’s Masterclass On Longevity
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Hello, friends, welcome back to the show. My guess today is doctor mike israel il. He's a professor of exercise and sports signs at leaving college and the co founder of renaissance idiz ation. As technology advances at an unprecedented pace, idea of humans living forever feels within reach.

But what's the truth about extending our lives? What does the latest science reveal about our pursuit of extended lifespan? Expect to learn the biggest determining factors to increase longevity, the role of genetics, whether fasting is the ultimate hack, how steroid usage impact lifespan, the best exercises for living longer, the biggest predictions outside of your body that determine how long you live, the biggest myths for extending your life, the truth about blue zones and much more. But now, ladies and gentleman, please welcome, doctor mike. Is retail.

My kids are, look on the show first.

Next.

me again in a bone. This time.

yes, the person who pick me up blind folded me, put a shot, my room. I woke up in a helicopter being repealed down to a barn. I have no idea where we are, but interestingly, I do have some ideas about longevity .

on the brain and the direction.

always just getting, never talking .

about longevity. Bit of a buz word, especially the last of five to ten years on youtube. How do you come to think about longevity constituent parts? What is IT?

Um longevity is kind of a big concept. And there are two underlying concepts at least that are important to chat about. One is the duration of your life along your alive and the end dunn of that is mortality.

Like if you die at ninety seven for diet fifty, then you lived forty years longer, whatever. You had more longevity in that sense. And that used to be kind of sort of the only way longevity was discussed a generation ago or so on times before that.

But there's an important sub component sort of part two of longevity that has to be in the discussion for IT to be the most meaningful discussion possible. And that is a variable, the end run of which isn't mortality, but it's mobility and that is quality of life. So the two parts of longevity are how long do you live for and what is the quality of life that you're experiencing during that time? So mortalities how soon you die. Mobility is like whether the last five, ten, fifty, twenty, thirty years of your life like, because IT is a very, very different situation to have two people live to ninety and rock cemetery, nineteen, and one day at the same time holding hands, very romantic. But one of them, up until two years ago, was living life to the full st, active, independent, a healthy, generally speaking, could travel, maybe could drive all the way .

up to few restrictions .

on restrictions. The alternative is there are people currently in their late forties that suffer from a morbid obesity that if you somehow just kept them alive, and with technological innovation that is increasingly more more possible, that they kick around for a while. Let's imagine ally got someone like that to the nineties.

So let's use a more realistic example. After age seventy, a person is mostly bedroom den, requires the care attention of many people, is beef of family and friends, and lives in a nursing home, tended to hand and foot theory, identical mortality, saying, dave death, very different degree of mobility, one person experiences almost none. One experience a significant amount.

So for the rest of the discussion we're going to have here today, we're attending to variables that don't just enhance the probability that you live logger. So they will, but they're also going to enhances the quality of life you experience as you age, which is really, really important because of someone like you want to live longer and you're like, yeah, they like in a nursing home with tubes everywhere. You like how much longer? Like years? decades? Like cashmere, i'm good. Some people want that sort of thing, some people down. So very .

important distinction is IT a trade .

off between the two. Almost never, but almost sometimes there is a trade off between the two.

For example, in very difficult athletic pursuits, there are some data indicate that if you're really grind IT as an athlete, especially into you later years, you could technically be through putting so much through your metabolism of the total human metabolism m in the amount of sort of damage and chemical alteration your body takes is kind of like a, like a candle. If you burn IT really fast, IT burns out a little quicker. And just just low key that there is a situation like that. This is the extreme and very extreme.

M made a comment about, uh, you have a limited number of hot beats in your life and life exercising speeds them up yeah not quite right down.

One of the many ways in which downtown mp is more wise than us all. Ah yes he does have a little bit of a point there. Um so if you are a hard or athlete you may not live quite as long as if you cool off on the training a little bit.

However, if you are hard core athlete, i'll probably just not suffered nearly as much from mobility restrictions, mobility things, various health malians. You just gonna go a little sooner and buy a little, I mean, maybe on the order of months to a few years sooner, but your quality of life is gonna be completely different, especially in your later years. Those distinctions are very rare and are almost no cases in which mortality and mobility contradict each other. Usually it's roughly the same stuff like most of the recommendations will talked about today are gonna be like a lot of coome column both .

checked off when IT comes to longevity, quality of life, what's the biggest movers? The the number one, what's the big gest determining factor? Do you know? Is that a question that can be answered technically .

in the literature? So IT IT, it's difficult to say what the biggest factor is by far because the way you ask that question has to include what is the degree of variation, your account. So if you say that, uh, nutrition is the biggest variable, but you're dealing with a uh hundred people being examined further nutrition or trying to a core late lifespan, but most of them are eating decently well. IT probably won't be the biggest variable um but um the kind of take to be completely honest in our current environment is probably the degree of ideology that you Carry, how much body fat you have and how heavy you are beyond what you are genetically designed to hold. So like the great game effect or the um take things done, little large dogs are designed with similar systems of small dogs and they almost always die like half soter um humans are all designed on very similar systems and subsystems and when you get a human to wait four, five hundred pounds IT strings, everything like crazy.

that's like A A reliable way to shot in your life, one of the most reliable ways to shot .

your life would be probably one of the most short of extreme drug abuse like just doing crack or coke everyday stuff like that um extreme a prolonged stress and sleep deprivation.

absolute hunt to bide and .

stuff so the laptop to to shit right but um yeah as far as things that we see humans alter in the real modern world today, it's difficult to reduce both your uh longevity, how long you live your and wildly increase your mobility in a more dependable way than being severely overweight. Okay.

you mentioned the world there that I thought would maybe be the biggest one. genetics. What's the role of genetics when IT comes to life span longer.

gever central? And, uh, uh, it's interesting the way you ask .

genetics is .

insanely, insanely pregnant to how long you live and explains almost all of the variance for those wacky stories you hear, which are often false and sometimes true. My grandfather, he lived till ninety eight. He smoked ten packs. A di means some of a bitch barely slept to drink all the time at somehow lift an idea. And usually people tried out these stories to try to reduce the apparent benefits of improving your life style.

Because there's kind of a fatalism associated with, like, do, if, if my grandpa lives on ninety eight, just eaten raw meat and and smoke and eight, six and an hour, who, why am I? I gonna eat kale. That's stupid. I'm gonna waste time. If the thing is, grandpa probably had just the right stuff genetically.

And if you tried in any given age, and you try in any given level of genetics, you may have maybe you are closely related to grama on that regard, maybe not so much because you might only be a quarter related to grama. And if the gene huffle pretty decently, maybe only in eighth and you might have other people in the family that, like croke, at fifty five, i'll have a son you like, whatever. So genetics, matter of fun, but they are still altered.

So genetics gives you an average of everything's average in your life, average in nutrition and average sleep, average everything genetical say you're gona die probably about seven two. But if you do everything right, you might die eighty two. If you do everything wrong, you might die.

Fifty two, sixty two, something like that. Very big differences about, however, that settling point of longevity. Very general inform. However, the reason I said that anaysis probably the most permanent variable of the biggest one explanatory wise is because it's a variable that you can push all the variables to extremely.

You can push your sleep down, you can push your stress sky high, but it's unlikely you're gona do that to yourself very long in the free modern world, like if you work any decent job in the U. S. Or any of the angle phone countries, modern asia at such a europe like you're probably not going to like die because you overwork voluntarily in a coal mine.

Unlikely, but boy, are a lot of people voluntarily over eating like crazy. And being that we are, we allowed to disclose the filming location, being that we are in the Austin, texas metropolitan area, lots of people are eating to such high extension that i'll tell you this, if you weigh four hundred pounds and you tried out the genetic bullshit to me of, look why you haven't lost weight. I'm draken you like I don't because, you know, like IT, you can really do unbelievable damage and short in your life substantially. Kind of doesn't matter where your genetics are at that point.

If you're talking genetics, does that mean all grandparents and both parents seem to have lived for quite a while? Most people haven't done a full genome assessment or whatever. I don't even know if we've done a polymorphous, right? Like he's the long living. He's some of the long giving long living.

We can spare the expense it's going to be. But there mean is not one gene and that people only live to fifty five or ninety five. No one between very by model right?

Um if you look at you can look at genetics from two different perspectives in this regard. At least one perspective is there are no doubt genetic variables about a person that under the hood caused them to live a long time or live a short time. You might be able to clear my a construal damage faster, or something like that.

Your genome, the actual like strands of DNA, kept like less method ted than otherwise. There are a variety of molecular machines that do that. Some people have more effective variants or more of them, so on. And so for you would never look at a person and told that's what they have. They just have that ship.

That's what ramp ahead when the coal mining days when he smoke to call chimney every hour, when ever fucked he, he was literally a cigarette, Chris, a giant walking cigarette, and he, would you die? So that is fact. Number one, there's a bunch of those kinds of things.

But the other kind of genetics and is a strait up still genetics. That affect your lifetime is the genetic propensity for the secondary effects that affect IT. For example, if you have a fucking appetite for very tasty, very not good for you foods and you have uh genetically hunger signal, that's like kind of your always .

hungry or whatever.

no pleasure from exercise perpended to do addict of drugs, a propensity to take proposed risk risks, a propensity for poor sleep. Um that's not under the hood stuff. It's going affect what's under the hood, but it's expressed in other measured very so there's two ways to look .

at you okay environment, how does that impacts .

yeah yeah basically um in the current modern world, environment impacts longevity, a very small amount because all of our environments are generally kind of really good, good enough that the variance produced by environment is very small. However, in the developing world environment has a really big effect on mongerer still one of the top killers straight up all around the world is um indoor air quality.

If there are still countries and cultures in which you burn for food and fuel, like sad or some should inside and sure goes out the chimney, but good, believe or not, some of the molecules straight to the sides and you enhance that, should you do that for thirty, forty years, it's going to impact atch longevity like crazy. If there have been to developing nations like india, for example, you land the, uh, internal circulation of the air stops. External air comes in new york.

Fuck happened here. And that does not stop until you leave india or go away into the jungle. Because like mumbai has an air quality that like if we had that in Austin, there would be like a like, do not travel to Austin taxes for the next two months.

Remember, the california wide fires are really big deal. Air equality was like, it's really bad. And I remember being there.

I was like, the fuck. As i've been to mumbai a few times, I like, man, I could live rest of my life in this. I wouldn't fect me at all.

I've been to mumbai. So outdoor, indoor air quality, uh, polluted water, contaminated food, things that we just really just don't deal with in the modern world. You go to japan, iwan, the U K, germany of the U S, it's all free and clear pretty much.

And so in the environment doesn't have huge effects in that sense. Um there are other things about the environment that can produce er uh um increase longevity, stress and things like that. I don't like to call the environment.

You can be more specific with those things. But generally speaking, envionmental factors just aren't a big deal for us living in the modern world, a modern world, how rude. Everyone's modern in the developed world. It's not a big deal in the developing world. yeah.

It's a huge deal in one of the ways to increase human well being and human life span is to help the developing world clean up, making the literal center to have cheap er cleaner energy, cheap er cleaner energy, cheaper uh cleaner abilities to clean up. Look like if you get a lot of energy, don't exactly clean up your air. Doing that, we have of five nuclear power plants.

You still have to make sure that your production facilities of all these goods are not showing toxic. Should you have to have regulatory framework to make sure cars are increasingly expected to have different standards? Because like an india, there's like diesel, regular small cars on the road and they put out some smoke. And I like that our cars at home do not, fuck me, smell like that. They do not pass our regulatory burden and obviously, of course, like good governance, largely free markets, enough ability generate wealth of that stuff.

So okay, diet, touch on body fat, body weight early on. Yes, does IT matter what you're eating. Does IT matter how IT impacts you. How should we come to think about diet from a longer gevinson point grade?

A diet that can keep your muscle mass at decent levels and does not make you excessively over fatter? Overweight probably is something like eighty percent of what we mean by diets effect on longest. So if you'd take two people in the two very different diets, but one that they are roughly the same body composition and size eta, they're gonna get longevity differences from diet alone.

But they are not going to be enormous and the order of probably five years or last, just on a heroic basis, we're not talking about twenty or thirty. Someone waste six hundred pounds. Yeah, it's twenty or thirty years, if not more. You know.

when to stop arguing over a vegan verses connivance instead.

look at how much way. Oh my god, by a long shot. Let's put this in perspective with some characters so we can make up in our heads if a vegan or kind of or does not matter, say, know there are three hundred and fifty pounds of five foot seven and they're like, well, on vegan so it's not a big deal.

You're going to be like grow that ain't IT. Now if you eat mostly healthy foods, lean proteins, vegetable, fruit, grains, healthy fats and mostly unprocessed foods, if you do that, whatever body way you're at IT absolutely matters for longevity. But IT matters a little bit, and that means you should do IT. But the biggest thing that you get out of those foods is the ability to do weight control. Because if you are grow actually overweight, you could be in fucker IT matters, but not by a ton.

How much micon real damage and stuff like that is coming from junk process foods? Or is your concern with avoiding ultra process foods that they're just more palatable ble than eating the whole of food version?

It's probably another eighty, twenty or ninety ten situation. We're mostly they're just a portal to being really fat. But yeah, there is some decent research that says very processed meat very proceed. Various other foods do have chemical effects, cellar levels that are absolutely not ideal, especially if the preponderance of your diet is composed to those foods. But if you eat, uh, not so healthy foods a few times a week and the rest is healthy, they cannot statistically differentiate you from someone who we tell the hundred percent of the time in the mortality or more .

of you maintain a similar sort of weight.

correct? So yes, exactly. But again.

we're fighting with ultra processor. Oos are more palatable ble often more calorie dense. Go back and watch the fat lost episode that we did before we can .

learn about that. Let's IT. So that's really important stuff.

But I think the big take away for me is this, if you kind of two extremes, one we already mentioned, if you are following some ultra healthy diet, either are a sensibly healthy, you are actually and you have gotten up to four hundred pounds and you're not losing weight currently. But you're like, i'm good. I'm eaten the new way.

It's great. You got a bad thing coming your way. On the other hand, if you happen to be in a position where you are over a healthy weight, you're physically active. Is set to all the other variables to talk about a pretty well in line. And you are looking at a plate of nachos at a mexican place with your friends, they're like, eat some and you're like, um but kind of gna kill me because they're native chips on those are bad. Sorry, crisp, does that make .

your english feel sizing every?

Yes, yes, that's also probably the wrong move. And it's it's the wrong move at least two reasons. One is in moderation and with all the other factors aligned, you eat us some junk every now and again. It's a very difficult story to tell yourself that anything very much matters about if you eat a few chips or zero chips or even a two bags of chips every now again. The other way in which that matters is the in this is little bit more about how you approach food if you approach food in an neurotic fashion, um anticipating dangers everywhere, trying to create your lifestyle to only get the organic vegan superfood shit and really worrying a lot about what was into your body, you almost certainly will live less time than if you just didn't give a shit and ate mostly good shit but every now again just had timber rios, no problem.

I love the idea of distress, are trying to be perfect, will kill you more quickly than your imperfections .

depending on the degree of imperfection. But if you do in a decent job and you're worrying more than that.

you're just going insane. I did a jeff uSonian breakfast, brian Johnson, a couple of months ago.

Okay, what does? I don't know what that means.

So you everybody gets, I think, a minute to speak. You kind of go around and you ve got a topic that you're talking on and it's a way of, I guess, Fostering uh, discussion some kind OK. And he was a talking about some of the research that him or his team had done。 I don't where come from and he said the eating a mcDonald's ah kills twelve minutes earlier that was some of the and I do wonder, you know, I like what brians doing in the same way as I like having a scout to know army that goes in sort of client I don't want to go there, but i'm glad he doesn't maybe tell some interesting in stuff when he comes back down totally. However, I do wonder that this is one question I haven't got to ask him me at, which is how are you or any of the people that are really obsessed with lung are going to r asho longevity, read IT or whatever other versions of that, the N A D discussion forum, the rest virtual discussion forum, all of this David cin classes from years ago. I wonder whether those communities have got to the stage yet, whether tried to mediate the longevity induced stress reduction yeah you know I mean, yes.

now there are a few ways you could go about this. If you are a person who's obsessed with longevity in a glass half full sort of way, you're looking at the variables in your life and your like, woo, I want to optimize for longevity. I love my life.

I love science. I love being intricate and meticulous is just my nature. I love organizing all the variables and being very strict. You're not really stressed when you're doing that. You're actually involved public.

your elderly.

us yeah so not only do you get the benefits of being a perfectible ist, i'm never eating any junk, but also you get the benefits of being super involved, which is another big variable will discuss latter seems to have some promised for longevity but if you're a person who if they are told this and just eat mostly healthy foods, you're good to go and you're like comic I think god but if I tell you looked every fry you put in your mouth is like thirty seconds last life like you're telling your wife something just beautiful about how much you love her on your death bed and you like and my favorite part of you is and she's like that stupid fry from mcDonald, my husband so. If you are a person whom that idea in the pursuit of perfectionism tends to give higher stress levels, i'm going to tell you right now, it's probably not worth IT. Just do a good job, don't try to aim for perfect.

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What happened to all of the research saying that if you cut a rats calories by fifty percent or thirty percent, that IT lives tons longer. Whatever happened to the intimate, trusting side of that? You haven't mentioned once calorie restriction for longevity extension.

why? Um because it's almost completely encompassed by the variable of body weight. I'm going to tell something completely insane, Chris, you might not believe, but when you feed a rat a little less food or a lot less food, IT gets a little or a lot lighter in body weight.

And if you factor that variable of body way, IT already accounts for that. So it's absolutely true that if you input fewer calories on average in a certain margin in a star of you get star yourself to death and you like always been starving to death in your skeleton, but like at one hundred and ten, you like, i'm still in infilling. Can I get a Brown? Is that? No, no, he would die. Like, I want to die with a Browning in my mouth. So the body wait, basically absorbing .

to body .

weight. But it's not one number I can give you because IT depends on a bunch of stuff, internal genetic variables I can't possibly predict because I don't have an AI scand of your whole genome. It's coming, i'm sure, but it's not here yet.

Another one is frame size, like someone is six foot two. Yeah, yeah I like and very broad shoulder in the interaction meal distance for the bans. You you got a way one hundred and fifteen pounds and then you're going to be a super like langevin like IT until they die of starting the merely one day later.

So a lot of variables play into that. But as far as body body is concerned, you're generally gone to take the average recommendation of what most of the governing bodies and medicine agree. Is this statistically healthy as to body weight? And you gonna air either add that body weight or a little bit less, you start going much less than that.

Not so great. For example, if the insurance tables say that you're probably in your best health at one hundred and fifty pounds, given your they don't usually do frame size already, this is fuck and shit that one hundred fifty pounds you're good to go anywhere between like one thirty five and one fifty. It's probably your super golden zone. You can wake up to one sixty five, one thousand and eighty if you're more muscular and it'll be almost the same result. But if you getting to like the one twenty or the one tens just to live longer, IT might not work out so well for you.

Is holding muscle mass from a diet perspective. You just what what's the role of muscle mass? Talk to me about how muscle mass plays a role in in longevity .

is an important muscle mass plays make sort of two appearances in longevity. One appearances that muslims in longevity is that having a decent amount of muscle has secondary health effects for the arrest of your system muscle as a glue coast consumer. And IT keeps your blood glucose chronically lower than if you didn't have plenty of muscle.

And excessive chronic high blood blue cose is a share fire way to just clock fucking early. That's a and so there are a few other ways in which muscle has these great system effects, and those are awesome. That's actually the primary driver.

The second thing about muscle is when you look at the statistics of literature on people with a certain level of muscle mass and their mortality predictions, you see these massive correlations. Correlation is not causation. Most of the variance of muscle mass or most of the relationship betwen muscle ass and mortality has to do with, uh, muscle ass isn't what's keeping you alive, is just a really good indicator of .

your overall health. That's I healthy.

Use a bias signal, a hundred person. So like if you give me an eighty eight year old woman who is walking on a cane SHE superjet destroying person ship, she's like, ever seen someone who's not overweight, but they like reach further luggage. And it's like skin and bones and like the muscles are like her by sups, like the wife of my finger, and you like to fuck there's that person moving and her barely moving.

She's going to croke probably in that so long a time, but it's because she's eighty eight and because all of the other health factors have precluded her building muscle. Not as much. Because if SHE built a tonne muscle.

that would keep her life and had a good dangerous.

it's true SHE had more muscle, probably be healthier for her. But a lot of times, people who are bed ridden people are suffered from chronic illness. People are suffered chronic and physical and activity like your hipster totally fuck.

So you lose a ton of muscle in your legs. And then like people like you, when you die, they measure your muscle ass in a study. And they say, well, low muscle ass. Is that the low muscle mass, specifically the killed you, although I did have a small effect, is the fact that like, oh shit, you are a really poor health .

in order to get to this mum. One hundred and .

a couple things going around. Internet people are talking about jump height, uh, your ability jump. I related to your mortality and grip strength. And like if you try to train to jump, hire or grip stronger, thinking it's going to keep you alive, a reverse causation, not the best use of your time.

Yeah, what about too much muscle? Lots of people listening, who maybe we worried about that they spend all that time in the gym. You as well large guy whose competitive ly body belt body built for quite a while.

yes, body built. So technically, as soon as you get to be considerably ten or fifteen pounds heavy, then what the insurance tables predict will be the body way that lets you live the longest. Um you're probably in not doing yourself any favors with longevity. However, this is one of those instances where quality of life and loge's ity can be a little bit and tagish to one another. So that definitely has to be stated that no, you can't be as jack as you want and still live as long as you on.

But if you're not using animal xeros and growth hormones to get that extra muscle, the amount of muscle a human can gain naturally as long as they don't have a high degree of body fat is just not going to make a huge difference in longevity of the quality of life. Trade off is worth to you. It's gonna be a very small effect, less than five years, and of life may be even less than that. Use a ton of steroid to get this jack, then you're gonna doing some time.

What you talking about, what I don't know. Take yourself the sort, of course, you'd one, what guesses in the upper range of what most people, even non professional body builders, would take? What sort of a life Price do you think people are paying .

as far as my back, the envelope calculation for myself personally? So there's a big covey out so that I don't embarrass myself .

postume sly when this is released.

When die tomorrow, die one hundred years. If anyone, you just die. Fuck in tomorrow. I got blood. Bus brain just blew up, turns out big that kind of weird set aside. On average, I would have expected myself to probably take about ten years off of the end of life.

What is IT? The drugs are doing that speeding up the dying process.

What aren't they doing? The speeds of that um they're growing your heart muscle in a way that makes your heart worse of pumping blood. They are consistently presenting you with collection o levels that do nothing good for your arteries.

They're elevating your blood pressure. Now many of those variables, I have cable hed, so I could be lucky and be looking at less than five years. But there's also an element we're Carrying that much excess body weight starts to be a standing for the muscle. When you way i'm five six and I currently wait two thirty five, you way two hundred and thirty five pounds of five six, you are, i'm like one obesity category away from the highest one all the time on B.

M, I correct yet.

but like the amount of weight you Carry around the amount more forcefully, your heart has to pump blood. A that's still fucking counts for one hundred percent and so to cope, Donald trump on the heart beat thing again is not one hundred percent wrong um that definitely a factor.

So if you happen to have used lots of steroids, but you kept most of your health values and check and you just had dog shitting in edicts for being jacking, you never got really big. You're probably looking at less than five years off your lifespan on average. But i've been pretty big for my size for a long time.

And my parents are both deny tiny people with very small frames. I also have a very small frame. I just had a lot of muscle on IT were relatively speaking, and a lot of weight I have had for years. And that absolutely A A big fuck problem.

Do you I think about Chris buns said, when you talk about that someone who's just retired, age thirty OK, six, two, six, three, I think he steps on stage, like two, twenty to thirty, something like that.

And not to show very mysterious with the classic guys actually, yeah, two, two forty years.

I think about him, you know, trying to get in and get out is like you know navy seal team six like kicking the .

door down shut .

someone in the face. Wonder how much he's being able, obviously genetically elite um I wonder how much he's being able to get in and get out, so to speak.

The more you you getting get out the Better um I never used proposal sly hyda mostly because I was like I don't exactly want to die lake tomorrow tomorrow but also because for me hy doses were just not so great not psychology and staff at but uh for something like Christ stead I mean his degree of muscle mass and the body weight that they Carry for his height and frame whenever like insane do you know who big romney was? Just like is um that's good to put you in the grave a lot sooner because you are caring .

and you one and he like three forty four season.

correct he literally is one hundred pounds more than a bum and probably a slightly shorter height. Like that's the kind of thing that's .

going affect you. So just to review .

to review the muscularity part. If you are very under muscled, it's probably not a huge deal. Fillon, gevalia being of at least Normal musculature are, for the average person of you, are sort of height and frame and age, probably your best batta longevity.

Having a little extra muscle can help, can hurt, probably cancels out on average. So if you're jack, doesn't nai unless you got super fat to do IT like I did when I was natural. No big day. And then as you use drugs, if you use drugs to get jacked, but you're really good at controlling your health variables, you never had an excessive class sterol.

You never had a chant blood sugar from this management in and growth if you did a good job managing that and you never got enormous, enormous, yeah like the drugs, definitely ly faster, but not psychotic ally faster. I mean, there are dozens and dozens of golden era of body builders that are still alive today. There are there.

Seventies and eighties aren't still kicking IT. Like if this shit was my born of my mentors, doctor mike stone, uh, told us something about the deos. When P. H. D program, he said, you know, we in the eighties knew that the media was lying because you just went in the lockers and jim, he just didn't see any dead bodies you know, like eighty's anti drug historia was a totally different level. Once a red injection, you're criminal, you're in jail, you're dict the hair and somehow also Angel for sure, dad, like tomorrow, that absolutely doesn't happen.

However, last category is if you get very, very large, stay large for a long time, stay on tons of gear for a long time, and don't attend to the various health consequences at that point, you're rolling the dice. And the only way in which the dice are loaded, as with your genetics, because they aren't juice up people that have been jack for forever, they are beat red, and they just like, don't die. And they live into their eighties, not the great model for most people, because they just have all gonee s one of my friend's manie tor of mine, brother chavez had to believe like a grandfather and uncle who like worked literally in the coal mines.

And he had like a some kind of chest condition. This is an amazing story, was one thousand nine hundred sixties and he, they went to the doctor is something, and I like some lungs or ship, and they're like, all, yeah, here, Diana, all tab lets d ball tabs oral, did you've got a script for all stairs and he was on them for, like a generation straight this is an oral drug you're not supposed to take for monger than like sixty weeks. He wish ed on IT all the time and I was like, right? So what was he like? He was like, jack, I mean, and he lived like well into his like late sixties or seventies and fucking coal mining, right? And brod said once he was like, I think he just died because he was just like, god fucked.

This is, don't want to be alive anymore. The thing is, most of us do not have genetics like that. So really important to say, like if you know someone that lived a long time in spite of everything, do you wanna take that chance on yourself? I wouldn't .

anything else seve us to us actually, that's cutting something else. Say, if I want to take a non body builder, but longevity approach for training for this, yes, very rough human.

What do I need to do? Yes, training two to four times per week for thirty to forty five minutes at a time. Mostly compound movements, large muscle mass movements, underhand, pulled downs and pulled ups, rose cocreate, bench presses, dips, overhead presses, squats, deadline set of a stuff like that, obviously vanity shit you can do, usually with relatively short rest breaks for sets of ten to thirty repetitions per set, all alternating muscles that aren't involved in one movement with those that are involved in the other, to do some close your benches, take a quick time, second breathe, do some underhand pull downs, quick on second breather, and back and forth and back and forth. That should constrain workout to a small amount of time.

Interestingly enough, if you're working out exclusively to get more life at the end of your life, you're also consuming a lot of life being in the gym around sweating the nasty people. You have to integrate that in. But there is keeps the duration of you spending time in the gym lower, but also because of the short rest innovations in the higher repetition ans IT allows you to have some of the benefits of cardiovascular exercise that are a sort of enhancing to both quality of life and how long you live. And so that's probably the best way to do IT is very minimal effect on your schedule and IT has probably as as much as you'll ever need to extending lifespan der make a higher quality if you're training in the gym like two hours a day, six days a week and like for longevity, like it's not it's not bad for you .

necessarily, but it's what about .

sleep sleeps a big deal. Sleep is the ultimate stress producer and and everyone's life like that pretty much. The one of the main purposes of sleep is to kind of reset the whole system.

And sleep is a thing where again, that ninety, ten, eighty, twenty rule comes in handy if you're mostly sleeping enough to feel well arrested, which means if you need like, fuck me tonic, I need eight kinds of monster to keep me wake after two P. M, you're not getting enough sleep. But if a cor, two of the tonic throughout the day is all you need to be your sharpest, then you're good to go.

And you're probably getting enough sleep seventy nine hours for most people, as good of quality of sleep as you can manage. Keep the room dark, keeps the room cool. Few distractions, no blue light, a few hours before that, all the generously recommendations that are really awesome.

If you just check, list that, and you usually get really good sleep a night or two every few weeks, you stay up all night, or you get you really busy with work, you will see two hours. No big deal. Generally, that's the recommendation.

Chronic low amounts of sleep in a way that has you feeling IT is a big deal. Some people just don't need as much sleep as others. Joko, uh.

is that true? supposed. So the four thirty A M thing, which i'm reliably told by some of my friends that are fathers that they .

beat on an almost nigh .

basis ve got bad shit to do you um but yet I mean, does that genetic mutation that I think the same likely od of you having that that requires you only sleep maybe four hours a night and feel okay is the same likelihood of being hit by lightning twice? It's like super, super unlikely. few.

Very, very right. Anyway, jacko is one of those people that I ve had. I think basically what most special forces select for are people that can deal with sleep debt very well.

very big deal. Because if you if you need lots of sleep consistently and you also degrade very heavily in your cognitive vent, physical function, you just won't make IT through selection, even if you are straight up killer. That's the kind of guy you want to be like, an elite ite body guard.

For someone like the president who sleeps Normal hours, you have a decent rotation for your body guarding shifts. You can be like a delta force level shooter. You just like, look, if I don't get my sleep. Good to know when, after a few days.

tim Kennedy told me the story. Maybe you ask him about IT tomorrow, if you chatty to him, asking about the time you ran out of amo, and you will know the story I think he said he was awake for at the only time he slept was when he was concluded by an I D. Going off in like forty eight, maybe more hours.

His safe wake for two, four days runs out of every different platform, every different magazine, every different piece ammunition that he had. Uh, you just realized that, okay, that's that's what the job demands of you. Ross Angeli, who I think, uh wanted in in at some point.

Um I asked him he did all of these crazy swam or did IT a try assem holding a tree, uh, try. He's the first person in history to have a swim around, grab and and needed six hours on, six hours off for basically seven months. H he's just done the longest single distance rivers, women in history, three hundred miles. Oh, g fifty five hours without touching land, without sleeping, without anything, fifty five hours straight through and um I asked him what is superpower's and IT completely makes sense all of those things together at him allowing to deal with sleep deprivation and to digest food in very strange situations yes.

so shut down .

so he's able to have piping hot porridge to keep him warm when he was in the yukon swiming in canada piping hot water like a internal hot water bottle heating him from the stomach out um but then get back to moving and being hha zonal. If you feed me food, I need to be vertical for at least forty five minutes after IT, just the way my digestive tracts ce put together. sure. I don't like what am saying is certain people deal with digesting sleep and very, very, very different. yes.

So for those people that don't need as much sleep but don't feel you have to get IT, but if you're genuinely not well arrested chronically, you're doing some reduction of lifespan and life quality. One hand brisk.

What about regularity of sleep? I've heard that the regularity can impact longevity as much as the duration yeah as probably .

a little bit of an exaggeration or maybe not by much， especially in extreme cases that can be pretty nasty.

Shift work as firefight as nurses correct?

Um sleeping roughly with the day night cycle uh and getting to bed and waking up at roughly the same time on most days is probably a good idea for some people that like that bryan Johnson robotic lifestyle. Every morning you wake up the same time. Every night you go to buy the same time dope.

But for most people, we are going to take a hit on social quality of life factors. And yeah, if you stay up a night or two a week a little later and wake up a little later, it's just not going to be a big deal. But regulators is a really, really good thing. It's a thing that should be built into your life anyway. In violating every now again is okay always being in the mix of god knows when I go to sleep and wake probably not ideal for .

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My wisdom .

doing back to the exercise portion, realize we touched on muscle mass like the road side of exercising. But what about more general activity outside of that? yes. walking? Yes, stretching and cardio and all so stretching.

no reliable mechanism by which IT you live longer, but generally in moderate to high amount of physical activity, has a good combination of promoting the longest lifespan and the longest health span. I think that's a computer A T A book title. I just said by accident um that you know the keeping them more Billy low, having the higher quality of life because so something like just for people's reference frame, six to twelve thousand steps per day for most people is totally cool. But a Better way to put that is probably if you're doing a lot fewer than five or six thousand steps per day all the time and you don't get a lot of physical activity, otherwise you could be living longer if you did more physical ectivity in most cases.

Just to touch on that. Um I think I got at all for the genera who goes quite hard for an hour and then is secondary for a lot of the day. I'm doing some exercise.

I'm doing probably significant ninety fifty percent tile intense exercise and also not moving quite so much. What would you say? I imagine lot of the audience fit into this particular bracket. I think .

you're doing really welfare yourself. If you wanted a small but meaningful enhancer to quality of life and longevity later on the road, you would break up your periods of physical and activity at least another one time in the day for a serious about of some kind of a robic output diet, walking, uh, as easily as that all the way up to pretty difficult to robic activity.

And so if you lift weight and you do all that, and if you get, you know, roughly ten thousand steps a day, very roughly huge variation for individuals, you're pretty good to go. But there's probably almost certainly a morbidly reduction way of doing IT and probably increases your lifespan by a little bit. If you have several sessions a week, two to four sessions of thirty to sixty minutes of intense cardio astar activity, and for most people are really easy way to measure that is, can you have a conversation with someone while you exercise? I don't mean a few words here there.

Like i'm doing good see tomorrow. Like not that i'm talking about like consistent conversation like you and I are having. Now you and I can have this conversation on a walk and a problem. If we are really good shapes, we could have not a job, but we're not pushing th Epace w ith a romatic e xercise i f w e c an t alk. So if you can't talk in your hudson and putting doing that at least twice a week for thirty minutes on end and all the way up to four times a week for sixty minutes on end, or any combination there in is probably that extra Cherry on top for lunch gevalia quality of life enhancement. So if you really want to live as long as possible, I would say some pretty intense, regular a obie activity is probably a good thing and unlikely to be a bad thing.

Is that something that you're thinking about now that you're out of? I just want to be as big and clean as possible world. Are you or do you see your brazil judge you as is that contributing .

in that sort of manner? Finishing that? And I do J J 发 fully five times a week， and at least a few of those sessions have me healing and puffing.

So i'm probably taking good care of that. Um I am absolutely not to the model for a longevity and quality of life. I'm in a very perverse, very strange path, very understood.

very chosen path. I think you at least partly ejected yourself out of that sort .

of the land buse level.

Uh, but yeah, just makes me think again. I have this idea called the manual use. Uh, guys at some point between twenty eight and forty five that have just wanted to get as jacked and lean as possible. Maybe they have or have an abuse B D. Maybe they have or haven't ever tried to do different training model ties realized that they become chronically aware of their own mortality and and they think, hey, I shouldn't out of breath going up the stairs or whatever and my shoulder hurts always yes. Um just again thinking about people pivoting out of that and IT seems to me that um if kodiak which for some people is fun apparently but for all the people you need to game IT like you have, which is choked the guy, oh, my heart right? I was trying to shop the guy, my heart right high um for me, pick ball as a good example, chasing ball around A A.

A thing. Very british, very british .

way that balls, balls. We have. Just trying to think about some of the easiest ways for the non cardio lovers to get themselves to that place.

for sure. That's a great, great question, crist, a great statement. Because we know from the exercise participation literature, in the physical activity participation literature, I actually used to teach a class dedicated pretty much to .

this that is encouraging participle behavior.

health behaviors, a trip like we know pretty well what to tell people to do, but won't do IT. How do we get them to do? A big part of that is, uh, a two factor thing.

One is your physical activity should be pretty fun, and IT should also hopefully be something that involves you with other people so that the community reinforcement part is in play and that you have the situation where you just don't feel like at someday your air soft team is still meeting up to shoot air soft palace each other. You Better be there and so you just end up falling in. And if you fall out of activity that nobody gives a ship because you're just done a trad millet home and you have no friends and no want to talk to you maybe kind of done.

But if people are like doit, you going to make you to judge? So again, I heard you healed up. You like.

I do. I shouldn't go back. I'd love cking social pressure, usefulness. That was the thing that I realized when I started doing across IT. And any fighting that, you know your most training, most people not have a really cool jim training body.

Yeah, is you steeping in your own new roses as you stare in the merer, listening to meet all the dark thought, if if you nothing. And I realized, this is awesome. I like outsourcing all of my exercise motivation to this group of people around me, lighten the burden of me having to do this thing I kind of probably didn't want to do.

yes. And I don't want people to misinterpret that is being like you've got to bully your friends in the exercise. Say that I was good and you consider playing american football.

I put ricket for a long time. excEllent.

I don't want people to mission through this. As us saying, you need to bully your friends into exercise. There's a latent assumed expectation that people have that you're gonna come back to a robot class, that you're gna come back to the pick ball situation judge to whatever IT is and that internally to people without anyone ever saying anything you have the thought of like, well, all the guys are at judge to i'm going to go social .

pressures ahead of a dry.

it's a big deal. And also to the early point, like IT should be something that you ideally look forward to. And then it's fun. You don't want physical activity and nutrition, everything in langevin pursuit to start feeling like medicine to start feeling you just swell the horse tablet and then you're good to go. People generally don't.

And the stick to that sort of thing and the discomfort of IT, the um less enjoyment that you have, less involvement that you already actually excess off another longevity variable will discuss later, which is like life involvement. So if you like what you're doing, you're doing IT with friends and its healthy for you. Fuck man, you ve got a real good thing going.

yeah. I suppose there's a few times where a more nuclear option is required. If you have eaten supply that you ve got to meet the other day and you have five hundred thirty pounds and you are going to a get down to two fifty or something, you are, yeah, you eat the host tablet all day.

But yeah, for most people, there are easier ways to kind of increase compliance. I love that. I didn't even know that um exercise behavior was.

yes.

health bev, health behavior I didn't even know. But IT makes complete sense. What we spoke about last time on the last episode I really loved was my favorite of the ones that he done so far about stress management recovery. What is the role of stress in all its forms on longer evy lifespan? mobility?

Yeah, stress has what has been described, I say pretty actually is a hermetic response or, uh, association. Too little is not great. Too much, definitely not great. So if you never have chAllenging times in your life, times where the best of you is required, times when you have to focus, times in which you struggle both mentally and physically, you are unlikely to have as high of equality of life and buy a little bit as high of a duration of life as if you have times of life that require you to get tired and beat up and stressed and overwhelmed.

However, because there's a lot of really cool shift that happens when your body's overwhelmed and a lot of the crap, its the creeps when it's overwhelmed are actually like molecules they're studying now that have like lung evy enhancing effects. However, if you're so stressed all the time or much of the time that you're like lips just above water, kind of stressed, you know like the gasping for air, a pool that's almost your height, then that is overwhelming your body systems, and chronic high psychological stress will put you into the grave early almost every single time. There's another consideration here of how you perceive stress because you can look at some successful business people, athletes, uh, whoever whatever around there are in mothers and five children to rays if IT looks like they're in high stress and to the outside observer, but they're engaged in loving every minute of IT, they don't really pay the cost longevity wise, and it's actually a bit of an enhancer.

But if you, no matter your stress level, feel the elderly overwhelmed and like, when will this end type of situation and you hate IT just get me out. You're like you see a celebrity getting asked for the fifty of time when your new movie you excited about. And they over eyes, is not just the heros in that time, just lost them over that kind of constant overwhelm.

That's not really great for longevity or quality of life. So what you want to do is sufficiently chAllenge yourself in life and also get the recovery that baLances. tough.

I myself have had a real hard time striking that baLance in my life. I blame my wife for this entirely decision. Oh yes. Well, i'll get to that second. I'll get.

So I blame her just for many things in my life, most really even stuff that look happened to me when I was a child. He was even around, because why not at this point? But SHE is a person who is her industrious ness is like off the charts.

And he needs to, in many cases, be doing something, or else he goes insane. The problem is, I am also like that. So when we're together, we just work a lot and we get guilt trips in our own heads about not working enough.

And so we are really, really bad about taking time off and time to rest. Nowadays, we're a little Better at IT because for the recovery podcast we did, it's a priority for us as professional work. Athletes, like athletes, rest a funny, uh, that I can say this in a space where millions of people will see IT.

My wife sent me so, uh, sorry. Uh, the joke is super old, are adopted, sung red father I D pro. Um he is like an exactly that level of Christ stal ized psychosis about work, but probably worse, which he considers a great honor.

H IT is, but also IT comes to the trade off. He is a very amazing pro classic. compete.

And you've see jared in your life. Like, do you see jared? You're like, why do we even train like people like this exist?

I don't even the gem, but sea bum who's in the same division but is one six olympia is in germany placed like top five type six and some shows but has never cracked that I think he will in the future. But um IT was your podcast. You had see them on that.

My wife sent me that clip just like yesterday and SHE was like, this is funny and the clip was what the sea bomb do in the average day. And he was like, I wake up. I, I do some cardio.

I go back to sleep after breakfast. I wake up, I chill. I eat again.

I take some free work out. I train, I come back. I eat.

I might take another nap. I child do family stuff. eat.

Child do family stuff, eat. Go to sleep. And I was like, a Christmas. L, L, well, and I was like, l, well, I sent IT to Jerry because, and he responded with.

L, well, like, because we guiltier jared for wanting to be as good of a body builder he can be, but Jerry does all our R P. Social media worship all the help with like APP stuff and software. In addition to that, has a full roster of coaching clients for whom he travels all the time across amErica and the world to help compete.

And so, like I recently, he had take a little time away from training to recover. And he said, I don't know what to do with myself. And I was like, what do you do for fun? He's like, uh, work typically or planned to work on anything else have got nothing.

And so it's like, gerry, if you don't pull back on all the work, how are you gonna stepping under the olympic a stage? You don't have the recovery time line in your plan to do so. And so for all of us folks that are super grinding kind of thing, and none of us are like band brin set mentality would ever say we just like, is that just what everyone does? Is in that Normal for those of us in that position, pulling back as a good idea because you're sitting on the couch, if you're bored, if you're on your fifth dube and that kind of life for you all the time and never chAllenge, never stressed, you will live longer. If you stress yourself, especially with things that you're passionate, involve them and can progress at that kind of stress in combination with an equal amount of western recovery is the judie v as the french are inclined to say.

I don't even know if that's a turn middle of the bell cub stuff.

Yes, which is tough because so many of us there are very prominent for whatever the fuck in your case, massive success and intellective my case my curious hand shape um we just kind of work a lot and we like this is great. And here's a thing, if you love IT and you're not overwhelming all the time.

pretty good if you're composed to do IT.

if you're compulsion to do IT and you feel both overwhelm and the sneaking suspicion that you're a little .

bit to you is so funny. Side to morning, I had my first full genomic test done. Everything ah I see I can show you at some point .

unless .

you close um that we went through and you talk about snips, different snips. We ve got this snip. We ve got this snipper at such. This is correlated with the dot. This allows you to method Better.

This allows six .

of D N A C six, seven, seventeen, 88888。 And then next to IT, there's a percentage number. How read is oh cool uh and presumably this is across population data or whatever have got to compare a to A.

I was sad listening to my doctor go through this stuff this morning, and IT was okay. So you've got two copies of this scene, six percent of the population you go, two copies of this, four percent. You've got one copy of this teen, eighteen percent, two copies of this, every single one of them doping, drive ruminated thoughts open, afford origin f in donkey regena.

Well, like all of the things that will just make you very compulsive, very motivated, very industrious. And it's the first time that i've ever looked at the genetic side of behavioral genetics. So you think my parents have these straight.

We know that heritage abilities is a thing. Therefore, you will have these straights too. But at no point did I ever actually think, okay, what is the mechanism by which this is passed on? Well, it's the genes.

It's the actual genes. And given the fact that we've now got genomics to the point where we can start see a little bit of the code in the matrix, a matrix in the code, we can actually look at IT。 So I was like reading the language of me, the building book crazy that I was made do.

He was so fucking interesting. I can send you the link. I was like, not that expensive happened in a week.

Swap the inside of your cheek from your home. Send IT off. And I like this is.

But also the other thing that I realized, I like, yep, see that. Yep, see that. And what's really funny is where you go.

You ve got two copies of this and like in my and dad, you go got one copy of this and you can determine which parents how because you go, yeah, that's that's not mom, whatever the other way. I like, I was blown. I can't stop thinking about IT all day today.

So yes, you get to the genes that predict what you're gonna be like when you're older.

They'll be in there or at least they will have captured them.

But yeah, today in a gene you'll see some really crazy show. Well.

yeah, it's cool. Um so stress don't have overwhelmed periods uh have .

overwhelmed periods, but make sure their periods, not years at a time or decades at a time or like always.

if you haven't been feeling a shop or as energized as you'd like, getting a blood worker is the best place to start. Which is why I planted with function. They run lab test twice a that monitor over one hundred biomarkers.

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Getting a blood work analyze like this would usually cost thousands, but with functions, IT is only five hundred dollars. Function has a three hundred thousand percent weight list. boo.

But every monday they open up a few spots for modern wisdom. Yeah, right now you get the exact same panels I get by going to link in the description below, or heading to functional health dot com slash modern wisdom. That function health dot com slash modern wisdom. You mentioned about engagement, some sort of passionate engagement thing. Yes, you like to let me say something super.

super quick about the trusting. You can have days and even weeks of extreme stress, and I probably won't reduce your lifespan as long you can comment tly afterwards. Take days or even weeks of much lower stress until you feel like .

you get like dress.

We're like you day three of a vacation after a really crazy period of work, you're not even relaxed yet, something that uh folks might want to know is that seemingly, and this is just based on my inference, as you get older, the amount of time that takes you the unplug during a vacation, or as you say in the the kingdom holiday to us, holiday is like Christmas. Thanksgiving is Better. Um IT IT goes up. That amount tends to go up and .

takes a longer time. unplug.

And so I remember I had met a gentleman is very nice man, who was dormant in new york when I was vacation with my parents. I was like early twenty years, one in the dominant republic, and we were therefore like a ten days, which we thought was a really long time. He was on vacation for three weeks and are all inclusive in the dr.

And I was like, dude, you serious. He's like, when you get older. As you get older, IT takes you longer to unplug is like the first week i'm unplugging the second and third week i'm relaxing and I was like.

that's weird. I A one week warm up to my .

holiday too seriously because like it's just not true to say that you're relax immediately after any stressful activity. We can take some time. I imagine someone finishing of fifteen around on the and as soon as they racked, all right, good to go. Let's get the car and drive off you hold on a second that my sweat has even started coming out of me yet. Like there is a process. And so if you're as you're getting older, it's important to know that what used to be enough duration at the time of relaxation for you may not be and that it's good to take a little bit more time, to be a little bit extra recovered. The best way to know if it's time to start grinning again, you start getting itchy for the shit again, not compulsively like you want IT again, you want some stress, you feel like a lazy as hole and your way beyond relax if you haven't even gotten relaxed yet, you need more vacation.

This is why it's so important to work out whether you're like a taipei person with a thai bee problem or a type b person with a type I problem. Again, the patients determines the dose of what is required in like you have been thinking about this all the time, the just work hard to bro advice thing. It's been in my head pretty much since I last protests.

Uh, White nucleic activity and how you can do that uh the fact that you don't just get to switch on or switch off the industry drive yeah motivation. It's a sweet, interesting. I think it's A A really important thing also, do you really want to look back and just see that all you did was work like an absolute mother fuck at the whole time?

IT would be the honor of my life to die at my job. Yes, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Some people, they look back, you're totally right.

Alpha suis aside. For me, IT would be an honor to diet, work and having been known as a very hard worker. But for most people who are like, man, there's all this life to live.

I remember, uh, I was in an english class set in college, sorry, in uni, yes. And a there was like a short story read about a guy who was like, always super smart and got super straight. And he like had an opportunity to go IT was in the late sixties, he had opportunity to get on a bus, go to like washington, to see to protest something. But he didn't can see that exams coming up. And he gave like a speech to a college graduation when he was, like, sixty or something super successful career.

And he was like, oh, you know, my my one regret was that even get on that bus and the only thing I thought of the time was like, yeah, but you ve got these millions from being a career man, didn't you? Mother fucker, and you did that pass some exams, didn't you? Yeah so but for whatever is as far as how you want to live your life with transitions into the max topic of enjoyment, make sure you're taking breaks.

Don't be stingy with the breaks. But if it's all breaks all the time, put yourself through some difficult shit, it's gonna help you OK. Passionate engagement.

Passionate engagement. I am not an expert in this subfield of longevity by a long shot. So you can probably have someone on the podcast at some point, which I would consider fascine, I would at least watch the episode.

You get one view from me, hey, I do run a robot farm in china that will give you a hundred million more views. You have to pay for that sort of thing. So at least we have this robust correlation data that shows that people who are passionate, engaged in one or multiple, sequential or overlapping lifetime pursuit seem to outlive most other people.

We know it's correlated. I'm aware of no positive mechanism through which this occurs. IT trains my brain to imagine one.

And then maybe the caution data is already around or just not up to a date on the stuff. So please ask ChatGPT about this. Ask ChatGPT or, uh, claude.

Whoever about is their mechanistic press opposition or good evidence of how passionately engaging with anything in your life can increase your longevity and quality of life. The data exist, but at the very least, we know the correlations are pretty fucking air tight. And there's just so many people that have lived much longer than you would expect because they were passionate, engaged and so many examples of people that we're like.

And they don't live a long time. So at least as a check the box just in case sort of thing. Yeah, it's probably worthwhile to have in your mind if you want to live the longest, not to have this perspective.

And this goes back lobed to the stress discussion of, like, I am going to make IT really far. I gotto chill all the time and never involve myself to passionate anything, because passion gets the heart rate going, and that's bad. On the other hand, you want to consider this as a baLance, but also it's at least worth a shot to get into that passionately engaging with something.

What what do I mean by that? Lets say you are just huge and world of aircraft. Think about a day night you play all the time. You, your friends that play at a game evolves all the time.

Even something like that is statistically as a correlation likely to keep you alive for longer than if you have nothing about your life that really gets you going in the morning, nothing you're building. Another thing is creating something. People who create inventors statistically outlive, like almost everyone. It's really kind of strange. Composers outlive almost everyone because if they have a mission and IT keeps them seemingly so engage.

that IT may .

have some benefits. And maybe this is a maybe, but here's the thing. On the longevity size, maybe on the quality of live side is one hundred percent certainty, which is why I also category ally belongings in this discussion, because even though the long gevalia ff, the lifespan is correlated, maybe as the causation element of quality of life is one hundred percent of thing, your quality of life is measure a bunch of different ways.

But one of them is like, do you are you really involved doing what you're doing? Do you really like what you're doing? Like, imagine to describe, you know, you meet someone on a plane sitting next to them and sometimes like, what do you do? And you're like all like, I do podcast this stuff and they're like, do you love IT? You're like dads all right, it's a living.

Like you are clearly being facetious because if I may guess, Chris, this is a deep involvement for you having conversations with mostly intelligent people occasionally sprinkling me. And this is the thing you do and a thing you really give a shit about that is probably gonna be good for your quality of life, simply because it's even just a sub definition of the quality of your life. You're in one hundred percent on something for hours a day. It's a really huge benefit in the statistical literature that we see. And so at least worth mention on two grounds of might positively enhance your lifetime, but almost certainly will make your quality of life much higher.

Is this the effect where we see people who retire from their job at a particular age and then there seems to be the sort of drop off towards death. People are retired early. People retire .

part of that. The other part as a big proponents of science, physically big, not smart big. Um I want to say that there's almost certainly a big feature of that dynamic.

It's a true dynamic is reverse causation or a causation of an underlying variable if you just don't have IT anymore at work because you're fucking dying. You quit work and then you die. But but but there may very well be the situation where even if you still got IT, if you quit work, your life dreams of meaning and then yeah probably multi .

factorial as well, providing you with community, providing you with structure every single day or maybe moving maybe you on your feet with some sort of job, getting a steps to aba, like i'd seen at all of these things, work will set you free. Uh.

shouldn't say that a huge, you know, uh, I quoted my dad once on the internet who said work will set you free and I had a friend reach out like, you do know that was like a sign above like schwartz or burke an hour something and I was like, it's still right though and like, you know.

my dad is as as I so tell him that okay, other people, i've heard that all of the people.

Chris, i'm sorry, smell, they look at me funny. I think they look funny. What else is there to say? That's right.

But I think you need them to live longer.

Yes, through them perc consumption of their body fluids idea, if you get them in infancy, but infancy so hard to find nowadays .

birthright .

decline to do that. That's the real tragedy of birthday decline. No more rock the spinal fluid auto. What is how we were even doing to stay Young and healthy? Um a very, very similar statistical picture here IT is to the involvement stuff, passion.

Involvement with something you like is seen in this situation with community and social relations, family, friends, community involvement are very tightly correlated with your longevity. And because most people like a certain amount of them, they are in that sub definition of quality of life. So we can just say that really great um it's a big deal and in many cases, people will get all of the socialization they want and no more.

Like i'm an Austin right now doing a bunch of podcast. If you text me to hang out and i'm interested and hang IT out, i'll be like where, when, if i'm not interested, i'll make up some bullshit excuse like i'm super busy catching up on something anyway. I'm good to manage my own shit.

So that's totally cool. Most people are doing to find job at that. However, there are many people that have two things going for them.

One is they're not extroverted in a way that out reaches to get other people to hang out with them. And too, they simply are not aware of at least the correlation relationship between that and quality of life amongst ity. And so some people are totally fine being hermetic, but simpler.

So people are also totally fine being hermes. But when they actually engage in a social interaction, what's voiced upon them, they have like a breath of fresh air go through them. And those people specifically need to be keen on making sure that they do, at least the bare minimum, to continue to involve themselves ls with other people.

Now, typically, in many cases, is just not a problem. Middle school, too many fun in people. High school, same people. College, uni, a lot of people. You can be australia.

Ed, in the situations, you can be a longer, but a lot of times that's either by choice, you as you get older, many people report that their ability to form new friendships are sustained. Older ones IT falls off. And this is some kind of like doom and gloom scenario.

You get old, everyone leaves you and dies. That can happen. But there are many, many, many ways in which you can get yourself involved. There are community centers. There are various uh, games and sports and involvement, and everything at any age is possible for you to reach out, connect with people and regularly scheduled hangouts, be with family and friends, be with other people, be in a volunteering capacity.

You do not feel like deep coast ties, even if you just interact with other humans, like at a soup kitchen for the love of god several times a week. That seems to simply Better than just completely walling yourself off if you're a kind of person that's inclining for some social make. The effort is what I said.

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dot com slash modern widom. What you make of doctor Robert wallace is stuff is the harvard longer studio life study. That said, he came on the show and he had found that the single biggest variable in how long people lived was the number of close connections that they have.

I was more than smoking IT was more than going to the gym. The single biggest determined. Why would you posit that, that might be? I wonder if that factors out age.

I haven't seen the actual data, if IT doesn't. fact. Our age is probably partially correct, positive mechanism, but probably ably partially because one year eighty eight, most of your friends are dead and you have lived all of them. And the reason you die soon isn't because they died is partially that but also you yeah class ticking. So um like I said that the correlational stuff is a big deal.

There are other ways in which IT might not be causation driven if you are a remagen y piece of shit and you're bad to yourself in your own head and you're bad to other people, you just won't have a lot of people around you. Um if you are very isolated, you're not economically very productive. You're not very involved in things.

Most of those things give you more friends, having more money, having more social connections, having hobby in common with people, they all independently likely core later drive longevity because like when you have more money, you can just before Better health care in many cases. Also if you have a lot of money um you probably hide and trade county ancientness. And so you probably care about your health and also eat well and exercise all that shit.

Those people just tend to have more social connections than otherwise. But there's there may very well be an independent, positive part of community. I'll say another thing, one of the hypotheses that I like not saying it's true, I just IT, uh, feels like a nice thing that makes sense to me is that a certain given level of social interaction is something that the human individual organism has been primed to see as a base level.

Uh, because if you look at our ancestral history like lan, humans just die or real soon. I'm a fucked in loan wolf, bro. Uh, alright, here's the spear. Or just kidding you, the females of the tribe actually picked the plant that wraps the head of the spear.

You don't have a spin anymore, even fucked and stick and there's a buffo just one of you in that way six one hundred pounds in its interesting in getting upset at you if you try to kill IT, you're not doing shit by yourself. In all of our ancestral history the ownership IT is just like I love that fuck and loan sam ib shit like vibes wise, it's awesome. Like, I hate what a psychotic c left as you knew when ever goes anything by themselves like, shut up.

You just want socialism get out of my face but in the real world, you just drawing your own sami sort by yourself. This is not hot works. And so humans are prebuilt pride for living in groups. And you're just unlikely to, as a human, have an evolutionary history behind you, which makes the act of being alone for a long time beneficial. Normal, like fuck beneficial, totally right.

But it's just so abNormal that if you expose humans to one closet, no sound, no light, a little bit of food and water just came going on a whole, the floor of poop and p they are also gna die real soon, because people need all those variables just because they're Normal. And so social interaction are pretty high level. Not remember, all of us evolved in very communal circumstances where you walk outside of your hut, which might have your wife in your three children in IT.

But the rest of the village is always every night, every day together, everything is together. We are seeing increasingly more of societies get wealthier and older. A an atomization of individuals, like the average japanese six year old has nobody.

But here's a thing, how to have day alive. They don't need to kill bacon with peers anymore. They have supermarkets, they have food delivery, they have online work.

So you can generate value at home, consume media at home. You just never need to leave. Now, watching television shows and listening to music almost certainly will increase longevity and quality of life if you just have no choice of anything else.

But being around real people, I don't think we have to suspect that is some kind of magic. Very best effect, really, is the socialization that's good for you. It's the fact that when you don't have lots of socialization is such an unusual thing to your human systems, your brain, that you're like this low key, so conciousness something is off. And then your ability to generate .

passion to have is .

largely on because you use more built .

for the ship. P passionate engagement will go up. Maybe you've got people around you. So if you get too fat, they're at the right of mechanism a lot having grandchildren .

and children around for whom you maybe take care of, maybe you in view them with wisdom. That's a lot of meaning. A lot of hermes.

You're living for more than just yourself to parents live longer? I have no idea, almost certainly they do. But I wouldn't I don't have the data in front of me to say that OK.

that's the things that do impact longevity. What are the biggest myths in the world of longevity in your opinion?

Again, as in all of our most discussions, this has to be highly curtailed for the purposes of time. There are a few things that come to mind, and maybe you can remind me of you. One is that in twenty twenty four october, and I like to say when this is film job, that.

Fuck, we don't have any supplements that you can take that are like strong main effect for enhancing longevity and have been approved or that main effect has been illustrated of a wide ride of studies done by different laboratories around the world. And we have a deep understanding of the castle market is behind that. I take in a nicene ied mona nuclear and um I was my clip appeared in some other longevity podcast where I went on a langevin rent and one of my other videos and this langevin expert dude who seemed like sharp guy, know what he's talking about. He kind of climb me on the another one thing so I took another look through the literature and uh turns out actually there is some very decent data for any men having some uh longest effects and actual mechanistic effects as well. But the total number of studies on the breath of population has been study on is just not enough for me to go seeing in its praises all the fuck in time, which is why I mentioned IT now twice .

ever in public hold up for both times yes.

And and so um it's just something I take as a hedging mechanism of like something I just swallow IT but but I swallow a lot of other things most in any case I will get enough so shut up again. So if there were these pills I could take that reliably increased langevin, I would love that. I would love a very supplement like that.

There's was very child. There's a few other candidates, but none of them have that like due to, is this really worth my money for sure? Like if someone's eating only eight grams of protein per day and they're like, I can't eat any more real food, should I take supplements? Like yes.

Like will that help us? Must ask. yes. Like how many studies? Hundreds on everyone. There's nothing like that for longevity supplements. So in twenty twenty four, if someone selling you level ity supplements, they could be yond to something, and there could be some valuable stuff people have in the formulations actually works. But nothing that we can be ultra super sure about and really quick. No small number shady fucking and supplement companies will tell you you're GTA take this is going to make you live longer and to every single one of them are, if their claims are extreme, they're bullshit to get.

But about matt film, that form is not a supplement.

is a drug you have to have prescription for. However, matt forment is a life extension drug. Here's a thing, it's a very small effect.

The only way we really know matt format extends life span is because so many people take IT for direct outcomes. That from that mechanism alone, we have just on goddy numbers of the n size is huge. So with a huge samp size on a study, you can zone into real tiny effects and see them.

So if you take form and versus not, you're gonna probably live a little longer with met form and not, but it's not this thing that's gonna take like five or ten years and slapped onto your life. That's what i'm really excited about for the future of medicine. What i'm here to says is a mid to late twenty twenty four.

It's just not here yet and matt former is not something you just should not take to be a conversation with your health provider. Um not everyone reacts very well to metformin. And again, the longevity benefits, you're quite small. There's other tones of side effects. You can have that there's some really good main effects.

Some of people are on a pd debet a control, but it's not some kind of anti aging wonder dog, I will say uh, there's literature are coming up a little bit now that some of the mechanistic effects that you see with metformin are even higher with some magliari uh and a lot of the new anorectal c drugs, the fat loss drugs. So when people say, like, well, i'm going to take this drug, but when I get off that want to regain the wait, probably in the like, I got to be honor forever. And what isn't that bad for you? Look, no, IT actually might be Better for you to be on these drugs, but not on these drugs in like some .

of direct mechanism from the sea blue tie is that that is stopping you from your weed diction and your food diction .

and your fucking poll addiction at at least one I can a moth hand. And I talk about IT lowers your blood sugar, your chronic area under the curve of blood sugar substantially. And that itself has like five different ways in which IT doesn't toxify your organs over time was definitely a thing.

So there are some things like my forming and magazine that are in the conversation for like oh me, they have little little oneac boosting effects but there's just unfortunately no drug or supplement currently yet made that's like this is the thing you need to take volente vy. And here's the thing like there are people that are they I say anti capitalist um anti fitness industry, anti supplement industry. They will will say the same things as i'm saying going to be true.

I'm the opposite of all of those things in seen the of capitalist supplement optimists at sea. I just happened to think like I don't first one I want lie to people. I also don't sell supplements, so I would make any money off that.

Now if I have to light people to make money, only ship welcome. But IT is just one of things that I really wish was true, but it's just not true yet yet. And that doesn't mean we're not several years away from massive, massive changes and how drugs and other things can affect longest.

One of the other most common pathway is intimate fasting. Who spoke about calories restriction only run, yes, but intimate fasting are very specific type of that with what's that .

thing that he does to a topic topic. I is another way to say that .

that slightly A S which we both yes, in the morning and the switch has been .

flipped always my switch broke off through violent homosexual inner course. IT was great time.

Put a world record on .

grindr. Yes, fasting. Fasting is awesome for one, two different reasons.

Sometimes that fits people. People lives Better. Sometimes that let them control hunger Better. If you get enough protein, it's probably not going to lead you to become in or whatever. It's not the optimal to get jacked, but it's not far off.

However, um fasting had this thing a few years back where people like this is the thing for longevity. But IT turned out that comparing models of fasting, this is not fasting. If you keep the coLoring restriction as the variable that's a play, there is no way to statistically differences.

Fasting where is now fasting? Um mental hencoops s has some really good insight on this from a completion of studies. And so it's not really the fasting that's probably keeping you alive longer. It's the fact that you're eating less food overall and the fact that you are now in A A lower .

body weight lifetime overall. So is there no truth to autocad .

happens all the time. Autocad itself uh can occur in the presence of food or not the presence of food. And if your chloric input throughout the day is the same, the amount of recycling of your own new trends that has occur is also the same.

So autoshop is a thing that you can see very big bikes of and very big declivities of, if you faster than feed. But if you just eat regular throughout the day, you get these little Spikes in the area, on area and of being like very, at least very similar. And so if you want a fast, if you suspect that you're reading of literature shows that actually has slight on getting ity benefits, I am absolutely not going to stop any to think maybe the case just at just a cold reading of literature. I'm not inclined .

to believe fast as the holy grail.

right? Like because some people like you li that .

in IT. What .

about blue zones? Um I don't like the color blue. I like red zones.

You wearing blue, but I hate shirts off s terrible. Is this blue to you? I don't know what this is to me.

Maybe i'm color blue, blue, Green till I love tail.

I love tail than IT.

Why are various .

staff members laughing at that regularly .

when we do these shoots? Um what IT looks like to you, the untrained, unwashed masses, is just a delight coming up from places, right? The light, but everybody doesn't know, is a fake son outside this fake light underneath .

all of this is even actual.

You can make these tubes that you want. I like them to be teal. He said they were not allowed them. So i'm .

being a beautiful who about .

videos? And all of these japanese people keep on living forever.

yeah. why? yeah. So people in the blue zones do a lot of things right? They tend turn out over eat to the extent being grow testy over fat.

They tend to have a high degree of community involvement and personal involvement. But um and that stuff we can take away from them, what we categorically cannot take away from them is the ultra specifics of their diet. Because here's how works in fantasy internet land.

You pick a blue zone culture whose die you seem to like and you go it's the olive il with the italians or it's the fish and rice with the japanese or whatever the hell. That's probably not IT. So the big myth here with blue zones is there ultra specific foods and diets that you eat.

They're gonna really radical, enhancing angevine and ultra specific other foods and diet types. The U. E. They're just gonna clock you out real fast. That's just not that. The other thing about blue zones is tones of the blue zone effect is just straight up genetic in nature. So people live long.

live in areas where that children live long.

strange. And there's generally related to those said children, also strange and geographically improve mity. Um the i've got to be careful I say this within any two compared species are hundreds of species in often times, even within a given species that has some species, you can category ize most animals on a spectrum of what's called the life history analysis.

Um it's on the one hand called an our selected group. Our selected animals don't have long life spans, relatively, and they produced the very fcon. They produce lot of offspring per individual. The offspring typically don't mostly survive. A few of them will not very long lives, not very fun lives in any cases.

And like spiders, spider mommy has you know like if IT seems to me that that gigantic spider just offset isn't roughly the same space that was we first looked at, at an hour ago. It's not A I promise it's not a problem. Here's here's my problem.

On the one hand, if he had moved the superstition that can move fect my brain with the idea that it's going to move up my life here a bit, you're going to hear me scream and break the table and jump out of the barn. But also, here's this is a problem. The superstition that IT hasn't moved at all is equally disturbing because that it's blood waiting.

It's Chris is waiting for me. They say that insects don't have the neural network size and depth to experience emotions like we do. But I can tell you that bite of sure looks like it's experiment.

Alice, hate mAlice? yes. Michael, Michael mAlice. Uh, bu zones, uh.

so are selected yet. Very many offspring, not long life spans. Few of strings survive spiders. On the other end, you have whales, very key selected, which means that they have very long life spans individually, each way, as one hell of a survival machine, IT tends not to die super often. They don't have a ton of offspring, so that's just how they live their lives.

You can category ize all human sub populations, which we used to call races, but that was racist or something, on average, into more trending towards are selected or more trending towards case select. No way that is the last thing i'll say in depth about the specific topic yeah because anything I say further will get me banned yeah. And with all the best intentions, I love every human race for all of its various different qualities.

Um but there's A A lot of political incorrect that is both true and really kind of in some sense like them as fucked up kindness that you can take away from this. There are books you can read, but another thing, there's tons, really graca, you can take away from tons of explanatory power. But one of things is almost every single, every single blue zone group, as far as I know, is just coming from a heavy unknown k selected population.

This live a long time. You throw japanese people anywhere. They live up like a long time.

This is what they do. And so we have to be careful not to conflict. Genetics with me, bring up a different exam. So a different example. This is gentleman. I forget what sky's name was well back, who was like recommending really ancestral diets and kind of a lot of raw foods. And he was saying they have an effect on your identity, like how your teeth or our teeth health, jaw shape.

And he was citing a lot of like african so populations that they have such healthy teeth and because of what they eat, and i'm like my fucker, black people just have Better teeth than everyone like he just went to nigerians or ever of perfect eth to begin with. And he was actually, if their diet like because they're nigerian, their diet could play a role. But I was just like the total absence of disgusting of genetic variation.

And this was just like just hearing to say the things. And so when we talk about blue zones, a, if we forget the fact that like you, like japanese people that said, or just I live everyone, or if you factor out the genetics, the blue zone sheets starts to shrink down to like, okay, it's mostly just community involvement, generally healthy eating. It's at a set of socialization.

When you factor those things out, you are the blue zones. If you're looking at like o kale, we have to E K or see we that's the thing you're doing. The ship all wrong.

You mentioned early on what you're looking forward to from the future of longevity standpoint. I imagine some of its probably got to do with the eye, some of its probably got to do with computers and uploading and all the rest of IT human brain interface thing. yes.

And I imagine that some of you may be able to do with actually reversing aging as well. Drugs A I imagine A I also makes the drugs that are going to reverse the aging. yes.

What are the most promising areas when IT comes to the future of aging research? yeah. Sa.

yeah. I'll probably do this. I try to do this in order of how it's likely to appear in the future. I'll probably get all this wrong, so you can just take IT for what IT is. A I power drug discovery began in earnest football earlier this year.

The ability of A I .

to discover new effective drugs to address various disease conditions is for most people who have thought about him a little bit as yet unfathomable. It's a quality leap. It's man sense.

If you went .

back to one thousand nine hundred and eighty five in a time machine, forget that the time machine is also impressive in this case. And you gave someone an iphone fully charged, and somehow the iphone worked through the time machine to access the modern internet. IT would be to the very best engineers, fucking baffling, damning magic.

But now we take a totally for grated the kids, like, jump in the pool with the iphone that I crap at right out. I just get another one. Who cares? So what i'm about to say, all these crazy things, remembers that most humans do linear extra pulag.

But the art of all of history, all of history, including prehistory and biology and physics and chemistry, chemistry and physics, is exponential in nature. This is not up for debate, is just is every single human or not human, biological or geological event that you plot on a chart, you need to plock on a log chart, so gets rid of the exponent, and that's still an exponent. So this is a real thing.

And so when weak people are like, what is twenty thirty five going to be like? They mostly do a linear approximation extradition. But it's also a linear extradition of a very low slope, because most people haven't inborn pessimistic bias, which makes sense in the pear olifant and wh, we evolved because IT socked to you, to shit, to suckling.

Yeah, you're uncle probably got gd, bye bye every other day he was off. So things are gonna get much Better, very quickly, and then even faster, short of machines, killing all of us. The world were three crazy just going to happen here, roughly, how I see the most likely timely.

Again, huge. Just eat the whole salt shaker for the ship bucked a great of cell. All the salt.

It's not good for longevity. So do so long your blood precious. Fine, you're going to go. So probably one of the first things we're going to see is cbot, an entire categories of disease with insanely powerful drugs.

We're going to see in the late twenty, twenty years, early twenty thirties, like heart disease gone, cancer gone, all timers gone, just gone. Like, don't take my word for IT. We already have a category of viral bacteria diseases that we've bashed.

Who the first polio like a human. Many people don't get polling anymore who dies of like rickets and should like that, like we laugh at and now, but I used to just kill everyone can imagine sixteen hundreds really do scurvy not thing in the future. They're like, you're kidding.

Like, no. Like this guys drinking the cool lady. There's no way.

Like also cool AIDS in the future. Like what's cool lady? Like it's it's great. It's okay. It's red in its sweet and is based on some berry, I not sure.

So when you combine higher categories of these like that, you just take more biting down like crazy because living with like chronic cancer some shade or chronic heart disease condition, it's a different kind of living than living truly health. And in addition to that, it's going to bump up longevity a ton. And like nowadays is the average person lives into their late seventies.

That might still be true about eight years or so, but uh, the distribution is gona close substantially. And so the average person might live into their mid eighties, not a time higher. But like wave, your people are dying fifty.

The bottom tail just goes right up. So that's probably going to be a big thing. A probably a little bit later, maybe sooner.

Who knows? We're gonna get some traction on reverse aging. Uh, Davis and Claire spoken about the set length. He was real early to the reverse aging thing. And the way he works in social media, news media, is when you have one rat study that does cool shit people like this, is that when is that coming? And it's like we need some more time to get this going.

But there's nothing about aging really, that precludes the altering the expression of your own DNA to just do Better, clean up and reverse your age as you present biologically, chronologically, no time machine yet. Biologically, it's attractive problem. There's nothing theoretically about IT that's like that's just impossible because again, IT seems like like the the gene from a laden would not even do you know like fact how do you reverse aging?

IT turns out that your body mostly ages because the ancestral evolutionary pressures to stay alive and healthy and welfare a long time we were just too are selected for, like you're probably gonna die by the time you're twenty seven. So if we put one half of your meta lic pathways into doing constant DNA clean up, you just suck at everything else and then you die in your eighteen, the world is not sufficiently stable for you and, uh, there's not enough providence in the world to keep you up, right, so that you can fuel your body for shit like that. However, if we get age reversal, right, both through theraputics and genetic engineering, we can have a situation where your bodies actually go.

I'm just never gonna like get lazy about these anti aging effects, and you essentially just continue to live in a roughly twenty two year old's body. You've already done this and sell cultures. They've already dinner in a few small animal models.

IT is not a huge lead to do IT in grand scale in humans at large, with a ee power type of shit that ten years from now might be a legit thing. I did a whole on my other a philosophy channel. I did a whole thing about the implications, philosophical, conceptually, socially, of what reverse aging is going to be like.

But Chris can imagine taking one hundred million elderly americans, and twenty thirty seven and three months later, they all present this age, twenty two, physically twenty two years old, cognitively sharp like twenty two, energy like twenty two, ten ties up like twenty two. What happens to dick and balls, something like twenty two. Brown nigh club scene?

You've got to go back to your old job like holy ship goldrush. So all the other stuff could very well be on the horizon as a chance. I just never works out. I would design. There's a low probability that aging universals a big deal. They talk about this thing you brought up earlier, I think off camera um longevity, escape velocity when true robust aging reversal comes in that's the spaceship leave in the fuck atmosphere because short of getting hit by a bus to get him by crocodile, you might just never die because you're biologically just always twenty two.

So the most important thing for everybody now to live longer is to live longer.

okay? So that's a huge statement. IT sounds like uh total logy but IT really is a thing if you can just make IT to the mid twenty thirties.

There is a high probability that the the great, gentle, powerful arms of biotech are gonna ft you the rest of the way, just twenty thirty five. That's where you need to reach, right? You know, when the hero grabs the hair ones hand and lifted in the helicopter, that type ship.

So because people are often like, okay, I can have a lot of fun smoking cigarettes, eating hamburgers, smoking hamburger, flavor ite cigarettes, a cigarette shaped like a hamburger, every permutation there are. But like, I don't want to be eighty eight in a nursing home. Who gives a ship? Up until quite recently, that was a valid trade off you could make.

Like, I could live forever. I want to fuck and rock out. And for spare energy wise, any is great. However, it's getting to be pretty clear that into the mid and late twenty thirties, the power of biotech is going to be so fucking absurd.

You probably want to make IT to see that because you might just be getting a old different level of ability to live longer at a healthy presentation. So we got that. The next thing after that, somewhere in the mix is genetic engineering. There are genes in your body that make proteins that make you age slow or are faster.

We can just select for the genes that make you age slower or reverse aging or whatever else you want or make you just not acceptable to entire categories of disease like we are to know the genetic variants that basically you'll just never get all timers and we know genetic variants that you're probably get at all timers probably really soon if we just rewire your DNA as an adult human. You take some pills, you take a shot, and over the next several weeks feel kind of little, little different. We can do that.

The big problem with that is, one is a vector problem. How do you introduce the thing that but but Christopher makes these enormous leaps that you almost never hear about the news is bullshit nir talk. But now they have a pretty good control of the bacterial genome where they can trade and to switch IT on, switch on yeah, and it's just a few orders of vanua more complex.

But the way A I and biotech go is they just leave borders of mantua two years or so. And so we might have in the twenty thirties. So I should have a book called in the twenty thirties.

So what magical coming the picture of my face. But there is a situation where, so this one is a vector problem, probably not a big problem, because IT turns out we can vector almost anything and to yourselves at this point. And we're going to get Better at that.

The other problem is a combinatorial problem. I tweet this gene. I tweet that gene. This one makes you live longer. This one makes you live actually longer.

But their proteins interact in high concentrations to poison union die age 2。 How do we even predict that? Well, A I can start to predict a lot of stuff and will eventually be able to predict, nevertheless, all of the major functions of the tables of the human body.

And because, uh, if you simulate like the the the layer of fast Philippines around yourselves with a simulation that that takes in most of the variations of how they are, you don't actually need to simulate every single quantum interaction to get the nine nine point nine nine nine percent like functional function, functional simulation. So A I this is absolutely intractable for any human brain to do any number of group scientists on earth working together. But for A I twenty thirteen, A I IT would.

There is a way if you just run the numbers, which like great or while has done, for example, of many others, it's just like easily tracked table. It's like if you ask a human nervous system at age one, can you kick a socket ball into a goal? You now factor is, what about fifteen years like something wrong with you.

You can't do that like really, you know, complex. The biomechanics of kicking a soccer ball really are like, fucking really complex for fifty year old ult nervous system. It's an easy task.

Same for A I taking the human body and being able to essentially unfold all the DNA, figure out what everything does, figure out an interactive effects, and then fold the back up and go, here's what you need to change to get this effect, once we get that a completely different era of humanity. You want to be blue, sweet or bu. You want elf as you get elf or no problem.

What fuck you want? Of all of the variation that humans can have genetically, all of humans ever alive occupy a fucking drop in an ocean the size of the volume of the earth. So it's not like everything, and there kills you. And humans are the only things that are alive. It's that mostly most of human genetic variation is completely and explored.

And if you just manually through biotech engineer, that you get to a point where people donate and they don't die of disease and they just kind of fucked and dope and they even could be really Hardy, like, for example, they could take a genetic variant and change the structure of your bones and double layer your skull. So you get hit by a bus. You die now.

You get hit a bus. You look out to walk off. It's totally possible to do all that stuff.

But here's a real stuff happens at some point in jail. Father and I have a little running kind of inside Better to what happens first. We don't know.

At some point cybernetic ics is gonna come in. What if I A cybernetics? You get your ARM cut off today, they can give you replacement ARM.

But a kinds sucks compared to a real art. However, in twenty twenty four, the armed, they can install already, can ambulating IT, can grab some objects. You have a little bit of feeling in their, interact with their nerves.

That ship that in one thousand nine hundred ninety was like straight up science fiction and total insanity in the twenty thirties, maybe twenty years, but maybe earlier. You'll be able to, when things fall off, not functionally more, replaced them with robot parts. Now I want to be on record saying this.

I'm get the whole fuck and thing done. How to be a robot if I get like my leg hurt they're like, well, we can also make replace at all. We can replace your heart yeah, I got five, but everything.

So the ability to cybernetics replace things and enhance things means that you're in the situation where, let's say, you can no longer ambuLance because your quality of life just totally such. You can walk because you're either too fucked up or something if you get bionic needs and bionic lower limbs entirely. All the sudden social reaction community of the city of access to IT.

So that's gonna a big deal. It's going to happen on until you specifically at the point where you're going to see a revolution where most humans not all choose enhancement over just staying biological. I will tell you when this happens um look at the trajectory of how much cellphones have gotten Better or tvs have gotten Better over time.

Is the improving project tor of technology versus biology radically fast measured in decades prior? Now it's measured like every year, your current iphone socks in the new one's way Better. That is going to be the paradise IT already is to artificial limits, for example.

So whatever the image technological progress speeds with biological process, at least technological progress speeds are going .

to drag you along for the right. yes. And here's the thing, if a bionic ARM is roughly the same ability set as your natural ARM, very few psychotics, windows like me, are gonna get their natural ARM cut off and put a fucked and bionic m just vives.

But if a bionic ARM three years later is ten times Better at everything that your arms used to do, then your real ARM a few of your friends got IT you're like, do you're nuts, bro? You caught off your own arms like games, like you get tired at work no IT never gets tired. Make you, I saw you hiking.

Aren't there a lot of like lions and shoot around you like, my arms is I watch one lion and they just dies. Like, like, I shoots lasers, whatever. The laser thing is a joke.

But at some point, when technology gets so much fashioned, the biology and the armor is one hundred or thousand times, and every possibly Better people will choose to exercise their limbs and very other body parts. Eyes take about this. Have you ever seen the movie? Um ghost in the shell cinematic condition is a scary hands in IT.

So it's nice even if you put IT on mute but uh this one to get as ice fucked up through an explosion, he's like a special forces do and he gets uh bionics implanted and one of the features he talks about, he's like, they got this, they got that. They got mile zoo. I had to like, remind and go back my zoo.

But you can see one mile ahead if those eyes are real and they look like human eyes are even like a little bit cyberpunk, but not exactly human too. And getting that shit, I am going to fucking cml. I want to see in the dark.

And if you're twenty two or three, thirty five or forty five, you're not taken you realized out for sure what there's a point years year one percent that surgery es wrong. You die. You never can see again, fuck that.

But if you're eighty seven and you need a fuck, the energy can not see anymore. I'm getting the fucking in cybernetic guys. So the siberia tic stuff is going to start this process, which has a distinct end, and that processes replacing human parts with machine parts until we can scan your brain.

No, exactly every detail of your brain that we need to simulate your entire you, because everything about you that you is entirely enclosed in this period. Once we have the scanning technology and the A I tech to do that, you can take your brain downloaded into a robot body and have a separate copy of your brain doing one of two things. One is sitting dormitory in the cloud, so that when your robot body gets crushed by a older because you decide to climb everest st, you wake up in a bed and you're like, what the fuck? Where was I like? You can.

This is not a physical ical debate at all. This is a gie red hearing. I'll take this one on the chin.

I am getting really pumped. I didn't know this the most animated you've.

what happens if you have a biological, you and someone sands s your brain and puts that brain in robot body, transits off which ones the real you? There is a categorically correct answer to this question. both.

There are two you.

Now they are both you. They're both going to feel exactly like you did just before they copy the brain. So if the real you dies, fuck and on on arrest, and then you get uploaded to neurology, you wake up in a hospital bed.

Then, okay, you die. Amon, arrest, gratuity. Here are pictures. If you die, you go.

You want to remember that unless you are uploading to the tesla cloud, and then you will, uh, you will be the real view in every sense of the word that feels like the real. you. You are absolutely the real.

You're not even the real. You used to be all of the molecules of your brain got replace. The cells replace every few days.

You think you would have psychological continuity from the, obviously not from the dying thing you are going like transport your sense of self from the guy under the bolder to the person in the bed. Yes, what do you think here in in philosophy?

Yeah, there. pathetic. Zed, the thought experiment in which you will have continue, so we do is to put you in a kind of giant MRI scanner life sort of situation, and IT starts scanning your brain, and IT already simulated your entire brain and your current thoughts, and then IT cloes the thoughts.

And now there is a you that lives in the cloud that's looking over your head with the camera systems installed. I should I can see into my own bugging me right there. But the you and here you're just looking at up and you like OK there me did the copying work and remember, it's scanning everything alive.

And so what they do, that this is very morbid. They pray, do in a Better way, but they OK you ready to for full transfer. You go, ahh, and they go, they just cut your head right off.

So biological, you dies, but every part of the brain activity, including your experience of your own death, is modeled and experiences live by cyber hue. So oh my god, i'm dying. Rules ship, but then i'm still here in the cloud.

So once we can do that, and again, attractive for A I to do this, this is no mystical stuff involved. Then when you can live in a robot body or live in the cloud, there's gonna a couple of different ways. People will go with that.

Some people will just never do IT. And god bless. Fuck IT.

It's weird. I believe in the soul. Fuck that. The other thing is some people might embodied mselnet robot I two things in a physical world, and then maybe like spend some other time in the digital world entirely in simulation.

There are many, many people i'm convinced that will just be like, I don't need a robot body. I just want to live in the fuck in cloud. Because in the cloud, for nominally easy, small amount of compute, you could just live as the hero in a permanent lord.

The rings fantasy that never ends. You could speed up your brain to go thousand, and you could live as a pie. You can live a clown. You can live as a whatever infinite lifetimes of modeling that is super futuristic C, C, post singularity type ship. But that's where that's all headed.

So, T, L, D, R, for this insane rent, the for me, the thing that keeps me, at least to my extent of trade fs, interested in promoting my longevity and quality of life, specifically the oneself ity part is I want to make IT to that dope AI medicine part. And once you make IT to that, your probability of death shifts down considerably. You make IT to genetic engineering IT shifts again.

You make IT to age versa at shifts again. You make IT to cybernetic shifts again. If whoever makes IT to when we're regularly uploading people into the cloud, short of the getting hit by a comment and all the computer systems going, you're never gonna die.

never. You know that at some point the protons decay whenever one times ten to the one, twenty six million years, the future. So for the first time, it's realistic, optimistic, but realistic to say if you're ever interested in longevity and quality life improvement, twenty twenty four is a fucking big deal.

Now, mouse, the time together share, especially if you're older. Look, if you're twenty two, you must smoke chilled of cigarettes. fine. Your Price still make IT. Who gives a shame like you are, the smoking rates and out you think so. But if you're in your forties, especially if in your fifties and sixties and seventies, now is the time to do all the right ship we've been talking about because the pay off might not just be you live ten years longer and IT probably will be IT might be that which seems to say you might just not die at a human time scale, but soever and then you you know, you're some cool shit.

did what a hopeful way to finish a conversation about longevity and dying. My kids were out to play this, and gentleman, good already know that I level all of the stuff that you're doing. It's been the best period to watch you guys crush R P.

strengths. I've been using my training at the moment, the last nine, ten months. So I told you when we train together has been the the best games i've made in probably a decade using the APP uh, so I highly recommend people going check IT out at the website, which is like a final .

don't say that .

you say that what R P strength that come?

Yes, that's IT, but also go on our youtube and follow all the links. And I will be kick you to the site sooner later.

I might. I appreciate you.

Let's thank you so much.