To Boldly Go Where No StarTalk Has Gone Before with Charles Liu
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So Chuck, we finally did it. We did it. We finally did it. We pulled in our geek in chief. We pulled him in. We did an entire episode on Star Trek. Just Star Trek. It was great. A Cosmic Queries. And that's coming right up here in my office at the Hayden Planetarium of the American Museum of Natural History. We'll see you then.

Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

This is StarTalk. Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. And this is a Cosmic Queries edition, which means we got Chuck Nice in the house. That's right. All right, Chuck. What's happening? Now, your questions today are not random. They are not, indeed. They are all on one subject. That's right. And that subject is... The only subject. Star Trek. Star Trek. Star Trek. We are overdue to have a Star Trek episode. That's right. But I am...

I could get a little ways on that topic, but we had to go to our deacon chief. We called him and said, make it so. Make it so.

Charles Liu, welcome back to StarTalk. Thank you, Neil. Hello, Chuck. Charles Liu, for those of you who don't know, is a friend and colleague. He's a professor at the City University of New York, still at Staten Island, but you're at the Graduate Center as well. Yes. Yes. Yes. Which interacts with graduate students and things, right? Yeah, it's a combination. Yeah, good, good. And you have your own podcast. It is called The Luniverse.

The Lunar Flash. I see what you did there. Very, very cool. I can't take credit for it. My family told me to use it. I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's good. That's good. We'll give them that one. Okay. And...

I just learned my boy here, I'm so proud of him. I can say that because I'm 10 years older than him, so I get to say that. He just came out. Is this out yet? It is out. It is out yet. There's the Handy Answer Book, which is a series. Okay. Okay? And there's the Handy Put In Your Favorite Subject Answer Book. Right. Okay? This is one that, where's it been all our lives? Okay? Okay?

The handy quantum physics answer book. Oh my gosh. Everybody who is claiming to invoke quantum physics to explain stuff they don't understand needs this book. Absolutely. And there's a little Schroeder cat right on the bottom. Oh, you got a cat, right? And you got the little Adam. And oh my gosh. That's so cool. Look at that. Because so this is, if you've,

Now, you don't research in quantum physics. That's right. I use quantum physics. You use quantum physics. Every day. So it's a user's guide. That's really what it is. Yeah. The answer book is not designed to sort of reveal the most detailed, deep in the weeds research results, but it's kind of like we all know quantum is there and we wonder about it. So we got a little question, got a little answer. There's a whole bunch. There's a whole biology section here. Yeah. Okay. How does quantum work in biology? A lot of us don't understand that. Our eyes work because of

- Yes, they do. - Right. - Why? - The photons that come hit our eyes, they have to activate certain cells and the rods and cones are activated when you have a quantum reaction from a photon and a cell. - So those are molecules that are absorbing the photon. Something happens when the photon gets absorbed. - Yeah. - That's yeah. - It's called sight.

Ooh. We've got a chapter on quantum entanglement. You've got bios on people who contributed here. And what is the size of the electron? That's my favorite one. I love it. Okay. And what is the size of the electron? It's at most 10 to the minus 18 meter in diameter. But the thing is, right, so it's a billionth of a billionth of a meter. Why are we putting it in the minus? What measurement would it be in the positive? Right.

Like why you got to be all negative? Fair enough. A billionth of a meter. A billionth of a meter. A billionth of a billionth. A billionth of a billionth. Yes. At most. What is a nano? What's that? That's a billionth. That's just billion. So this is like a nano nano. Get your THs in there. Billionth.

- Right, and a nano is 10 to the minus nine. - That's 10 to the minus nine. - So 10 to the minus nine times 10 to the minus nine is 10 to the minus 18. - It's a nano-nano. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's a work of work. - As opposed to nanonano. - Nanonano. - Nanonano, okay. - The thing is though, the electron is so small and it has such a weird profile that its size isn't really determinate. - Right.

depending on how you try to measure it or try to do things. Wait a minute. So if the size is indeterminate, how do you measure it to get that number? No,

No, he didn't say. You weren't listening to him. He didn't say this is the size of the electron. He said it's smaller than this size. Oh. Because that was the smallest size we are capable of measuring. We can't measure anything smaller than that, but it's smaller. And it might mean that the electron has no size at all. Could it be? For all we know. So could it be that the electron is existing? It's in the book. We got to get to the show. Oh, that's right. This is not the show. This is what he did. This is what happens. This is what happens when you mess with the quantum, man.

If you mess with the quantum, you get the horns. You get the horns, baby. Oh my gosh. They're entangled. Those horns are in... Okay. Okay. Star Trek. I'm old enough to say that the first round of Star Trek occurred in my living memory. That's how old I am. That's cool. I didn't see Star Trek until reruns. Yeah, I saw it when it came on weekly. I wasn't allowed to watch TV during a school week. Oh, you had some good parents. Most of the...

I would ultimately see would be in reruns. Mm-hmm.

But I was around when people were talking about Star Trek and what it meant to the people and to culture. I can't believe they got to show what there's a black woman who answers the phone. But she's actually sitting next to all the other white people on the bridge. It's crazy. It's crazy. Let's spend a minute before we get all racial on it. Okay. Let's find out. What about the technologies do you find most intriguing? And remind us, what year is it the original season took place in?

In what year of the future? The original season supposedly took place around the year 2260. Okay, so that would have been 200 years in the future. That's right. So the 1760s looks to the 1960s, surely what the 1960s would look like to 2260. Right. Surely. That's a completely rational thinking there. Right. I mean, it could be. I mean...

However, look at 76 and have Conestoga wagons and in the 1960s. We're going to the moon. Thank you But I'm just done here. There's kind of a hockey stick Element - no, there's not no no. Yeah, you didn't read my recent book. No, you think it's a hockey stick It's not you think that we're going to have faster than light travel. I didn't say that I didn't say that I'm saying the hockey stick. Uh-huh is deeper than you know, the answer is

It's always a hockey stick. I like that. Okay, I'll get to that. I see where you're going. We're going to have it. I see where you're going. So, Charles, you were an impressionable kid. You are a technologist culturally. You're a scientist. What in the science technology of Star Trek really impacted you?

Well, I always feel that I have to think back to Albert Einstein, who said that creativity and imagination was more important than knowledge. What you could imagine to ultimately happen. Einstein, you can say that. Right. But there's some dumbass people out there that don't know anything. Oh!

No, I'm not. Once you get to a certain stage. Chuck has been influencing me. I love it. A basic level of knowledge is, of course, extremely important. Right. But in order to really make advances, you really have to imagine something before it can exist. Right? So what we- You have to dream it. Yeah. Yeah. So what we come from Star Trek, we fans of Star Trek,

look at Star Trek and say, wow, they imagined that you could travel hundreds of times the speed of light. They imagined that you could flip your little device in your hand and talk to someone thousands of miles away. They imagined, yeah. They imagined you could walk up to a door and it would open without you touching it. So all of that technology. Are you saying that when Star Trek came around, automatic doors weren't? Of course not. No. Did you hear? I've said it a hundred times. I'll say it again. When I saw Star Trek,

That was the least believable part of it to me for the future. I remember you said that once. Yes, that's why. That's what I'm saying. I said, how does the door know? Yeah. Okay. I was good with the photon torpedoes, the phasers, the communicators, the tricorders. But the automatic door was just. It was not happening. Like, come on, guys. The best we had, the best we had.

were pressure pads. That's right. Going into like supermarkets. Going into supermarkets because you've got groceries and things. Right. You'd step on the pad, but you needed room for the door to swing open. The door would swing open. There were no pocket doors or anything. Right, right, right. So tell me. Yeah. Where were you with the technology? Well...

As a kid, I didn't know yet how revolutionary all this stuff was. I just naturally assumed it. It's like, oh, okay, in the future, they'll have these phaser things. And it was really cool with the phasers that you could set them on stun. I just really liked the fact that they were designed not to be lethal. So you're a kid and that's just the future. Yeah. But they're thinking that future 200 years is...

I don't know that they're thinking that it's in their near future. In the future of the lifetime of people alive at the time of the show. Because you go down the list. They had tablet computers. We got that. Checklist. Okay. In my hand right now, a tablet. Okay. We're not getting paid by Apple for him to hold up the logo in front of us. Okay. Apple call.

Now I've got to read everything like this. Tablet computers, handheld communicators. That's right. In fact, we went through flip phones and now that's old. That's old news. That's old. If they try to go back with the, who's got the, Samsung has the foldy thing. Z Flip. I think they're trying to still feel the flip. But telepresence, so. We can Zoom with everybody. We can meet with everybody. I think AT&T,

was already on the heels of that with their video phone. And I don't think people realized at the time that when you call someone, they don't always want you looking at them. Ha ha ha!

Well, yeah, we learned that the hard way in the pandemic. Oh my goodness. But, you know, in 2001, A Space Odyssey, there was already a video phone, right? Right at the beginning of the movie, somebody is calling their child. And at the end, AT&T says, you know, your cost is $1.70. Thanks for calling. Exactly. So, so the 2001 film,

was shot in 1968. That's right. Which was within just a couple of years of Star Trek. That's right. And so they're imagining video phones not 200 years in the future, just 35 years in the future. They got it more correct. Yeah, they got it a little more correct there. Well, clearly everybody got it correct because no matter where you went in the galaxy and no matter what species you encountered,

Lieutenant O'Hara, put on screen. And then the person would come up on screen and they'd be like, yeah, Charles, where's the camera? Get putting them up on screen. Exactly. Where is that? It was a backlit screen. It was probably OLED or something like that.

A lot of those technological things were actually done for entertainment, storytelling purposes, right? Not for scientific imagination. You mean in our world? Yeah, the transporter was a classic example. They didn't want to spend a lot of time shuttling people back and forth on little boats.

And so they just immediately, instantaneously brought someone from over here to over there. It was only after that became such a cool feature of the entire show that people started to retcon it and retroactively try to figure out what was the physics behind it. And they ran into all kinds of problems. So they just sort of said, yeah, it just sort of works. You give them a hall pass on that one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I heard that the cost of,

I just heard this once and I didn't verify it, but it seemed plausible that they costed out

what it would take to have a ship land, have people get off the ship, and then get back on a ship and go back and dock. Right. So there's a cost, given how many times they're going back and forth to planets, to have to stage the landing of a spacecraft and have it take off. So they just pulled this out of an orifice to make it happen, and now, like, what's the word you use? Retro... Retcon. Retroactive continuity.

- Ooh, that's a thing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I never heard of that. - It's very common in comic books. Something happens and then you have to go back and say, oh, this is what actually happened. - This is why it happened. - This is why it worked. - You have to stitch it back together. - Reverse engineer the science. - That's what it is. - Pretty much what it is. - That's what you're doing. Okay, that's cool. - Yeah, and so what about warp drives? That's really what blew this open for me. - I think so.

Because they didn't say, oh, we just go faster than light. No, they didn't do that. That's right. Because they knew that's not allowed. That's right. This is tipping their hat to Einstein in a very important way. They call it a warp factor whatever. Yes. Right? And that warp drive eventually became also a significant storytelling thing because then that meant it was an engine and that engine had to be...

worked with exotic materials. There was a new thing invented called dilithium. Dilithium crystals. And the crystals were somehow important in making all of the matter-antimatter transaction work properly, although the terms matter and antimatter weren't used all that much in the original Star Trek. No, they weren't. Yeah. And then later on, the so-called photon torpedoes were also revealed to be basically big chunks of antimatter that were in

torpedoes that you could fire at people. But the ideas did come from this sense that we got to get from point A to point B and we know they're far away. So we have to find some way to get from here to there. And that takes you somewhere that's not the usual dimensions of space. So that led to all kinds of

wonderful stories, numerous episodes where some sort of warp drive failure or some sort of transporter failure would lead to a storyline. A whole story? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Very good. Really good stuff. One of the most...

revered episodes is called Mirror Mirror, where a transporter accident accidentally brings several members of the bridge crew into a parallel universe, something that we might think of in the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. And in this parallel universe,

Everyone was evil. Evil Spock and evil Kirk. Marvelous stories, right? And you could tell how the evil Spock was because he had a goatee. Whereas the good Spock was clean shaven. Yes.

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In the old days, it was a white hat and a black hat. But the goatee, because the devil has a goatee. That's right. So wonderful stories. Why wouldn't they? So I had some issues with things that maybe they could have thought about a little more deeply. Oh, for sure. So, for example, the phasers that came out of the ship. Yeah. If it's a directed energy weapon, like a variant on a laser, of course, phaser. Yes.

you should not be able to see it from the side. Because if it's properly focused. Unless someone hit chalkboard erasers to make a cloud for you to see it go through the glass. It is the vacuum of space. That's right.

It should not be visible from the side. That's right. And that had to be retconned also. The idea that phasers and lasers are completely different things was addressed later on in an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where they showed that lasers were extremely weak objects

compared to phasers. Phasers are a whole different kind of energy beam weapon. And as a result, they could be seen from the side. Furthermore, they dissipated over time so that if you missed, it wouldn't keep going and eventually take out a planet. By accident. Six years later, there's just some ship that explodes. Houston, we have a problem. So what you're saying is it's so powerful, there's some

energy leakage sideways that you could then see it. That's what that would mean. And you know what's funny? I read a great thing about Gene Roddenberry when they were coming up. They originally were going to call them lasers.

But they said, well, lasers are a real technology. We got to futurize this. Right, we got to make sure. Who knows where lasers will be in 10 years and will look kind of stupid. That's right. So we got to future-proof this. That's really smart. Yeah. Because indeed, lasers wound up in everything that we use. Yes. There was a day when Laser Floyd was the big attraction.

in the evening hours on the weekend at planetariums. Right. All right? And that's the 1970s. By the late 80s, lasers were like impulse items at Kmart. So no longer could you say, let's go see lasers. Right. It lost the draw. The laser light show. Right. This Saturday night. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. One last thing, and then we got to go to Q&A because that's the whole point of this. Okay. It's hard enough having a conversation with somebody on the moon. Mm-hmm.

Because the light travel time...

Yes. Delays like two, two and a half seconds. Yes. So you can't have witty repartee. Right. They're talking to people halfway across the galaxy in Star Trek. That's right. I don't know that that was addressed in the original series. In the original series, it really wasn't addressed. We just accepted the fact. We just expect, yeah, you could do it. Okay. Your transponders, your communicators were just instantaneous. In the next generation, they came up with this idea of subspace communications. Right.

it was more properly addressed that the communications did not go through regular space. In fact, it had almost a different dimension or kind of sidestepped this dimensions of ordinary space that we went to. Some kind of communication wormhole that they were able to. Yeah, okay. This kind of communication was instantaneous. It was way faster than even the fastest starships. So my sense of...

Yeah.

get command of wormholes, and you just step through a wormhole. Yeah, you don't need a transporter. I don't need to disassemble your molecules. Your entire molecular construct and makeup and put it back together. And put it back together correctly. Right, well, in that sense, right, you're dependent on the network, right? The Star Trek Discovery series focuses on something called the mycelium network.

Right. It's based on- Like mushrooms. Yeah, right. And of course, mushrooms are now very popular in science fiction. It is the basis for The Last of Us, the zombie apocalypse. Yes. Fungus, more broadly. Yeah, fungus more than mushrooms. But this mycelium thing- Just to be clear, fungus is-

A branch. It is a kingdom of the tree of life. Yeah. Right? As diverse and cool as animals, as plants. Correct. Within the fungus kingdom, you have things like yeast, but you also have mushrooms that we eat and mushrooms that'll kill us and mushrooms that'll take...

Take you on your own subspace trip. Right. The networks like that are very much like a public transportation network. You can only go to a certain station or certain places you want, right? Transport allows you to go literally anywhere that you want to go whenever you want to go. No, I'm saying you have a machine that opens up a wormhole.

Like Rick and Rick and Morty. Like Mr. Magic Guy in, who's this guy? Doctor Strange. Doctor Strange. Yeah. He opens a hole wherever he wants and whenever he wants. Yeah. So don't try to defend transporters on that basis. But then you're in magic, dude. You're not in science anymore. No. Rick uses real science.

Oh, of course. Well, yeah, because... Obviously. Yes. Where's Dr. Strang? He uses magic. Right. And so we were duly informed that this whole study of the mycelium networks for mushrooms and mushrooms in general, fungus is mycology. Yes. Which I think is a pretty cool... A wonderful area of study out there. I recently heard...

a scientist described the possibility that the reason that we mammals were able to evolve after the dinosaurs had their terrible extinction is because- We had a better relationship? We had a better relationship with fungi. With fungi, really? Yeah, our body temperatures allowed us to resist infections and parasitic relationships with fungi. Whereas say reptiles, which are cold blooded, were not.

And so over those 65 million years, the reptiles stayed, you know, like crocodiles, for example, they're still roughly the same as they used to be. Whereas we are way different from those little tiny- - Reptilian. Chuck still has a reptilian brain. - Without a doubt. - We all still have reptilian brains. - Without a doubt. - Some of us are just bigger and some of us just smaller. - I also like to sun on a rock, so. - Oh, me too. - With your belly up? - Yes, exactly.

Mouth wide open. I forgot they do over their mouth, don't they? So if you look at the tree of life, what impresses me most, intrigues me most, is that the common ancestor between animals and fungus, between mushrooms and humans, split later in the tree of life than its common ancestor split with green plants. Hmm.

Which means humans and mushrooms are more genetically alike. Related? Either of us are two green plants. Two green plants. Ain't that something? Ain't that something? Pretty amazing. Maybe that's why I love shiitake so much. That's what I'm saying. And no one has ever accused kale of tasting meaty.

That's so true. People have used the word with mushrooms. And nobody ever had a kale burger, but people have had portobello burgers. They had portobello burgers. And the umami that's been described is common in not only meats, but in mushrooms. The umami flavor. That's right. When you eat it and you go, um.

Oh, mommy. Is that where that came from? Yeah. Japan, the first mommy. Because they came up with that one. That's right. I think it was Japanese, right? Yes, absolutely Japanese. Aaron Jackson says, hello, Dr. Tyson, Star-Lord, and Dr. Luniverse. Ooh.

Ooh. Thank you. Aaron from Lake Balboa, California here. My question has to do with the space-time travel at warp speed. A planet A is 100 light years from planet B. It would take a starship Voyager 100 years to arrive at warp speed 101. Now my question is, doesn't it get closer or farther away from planet A over that duration of 100 years depending on the respective trajectories? In other words, the expansion of the universe, does it take years?

does that take into account the expansion of the universe itself? - I presume that it must, right? It's not hard to make that calculation. - Right. - And-- - But Charles-- - What we're talking about-- - The universe is not expanding that far in the time it takes them to do it during the TV commercial. - What we should keep in mind is that most of the travel, in fact, almost all the travel of Star Trek

happens within our Milky Way galaxy. - Within the Milky Way. - And within that space, the expansion of the universe is completely counteracted by the gravitational pull that's of the objects in the galaxy. - So just to make sure I got it clear, we're experiencing the expansion of the universe

But because we are coalesced by the gravity of our own galaxy, we're not experiencing it like we were outside of the galaxy. We're kind of all in it together, moving together. To make a stronger point, that the forces that keep your body together, the molecular forces, the gravity, our proximity to Earth and Earth's proximity to the sun, and the sun's proximity to the center of the galaxy, that is tighter together.

than any expansion of the universe would manifest on that scale. - Okay, I got you. - So we win. - Right, we win. - Right, like the expansion of the universe is never gonna pull us apart

until you get to that place called the Big Rip. Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, God. Anyway, go ahead. That's a whole other show. That was an explainer in another episode. Yes. Right. And so I wouldn't worry about that motion. It's something that we can compensate for easily. And you're sure he's not asking the question that in Star Trek's version of the warp drive, aren't they pulling the object that's in front of you closer to you and then expanding the space behind you?

Sh.

So that you're effectively moving fast? That's not what he's asking? That's the warp shell bubble. Yeah, that's the thing that Miguel Alcubierre suggested in his calculations. Dude, what is up with you, man? You are out of this world. I'm telling you right now. It's like, we just mentioned warp drive. And you're like, Michelle Alcubierre. I'm like, where do you come up with that? I didn't come up with it. First of all, who is Michelle Alcubierre? No, no, he's a guy. There's a lot written about that idea. Right. Enabling. Okay. That paper would have been...

intriguing and interesting just by itself in the scientific community. Okay. But sci-fi people took it and ran with it? Ran with it. Oh, my gosh. Well, you just opened up a whole new world for me. Well, enjoy it. It's kind of fun. And by the way, you pronounced it in a French way, but he's Spanish or Mexican. Mexican.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, so it's just like, Michelle, what's her name? Miguel. Miguel. Miguel. Miguel. Right. So, yes, it is true that you pull space backward and forward, but in the continuity of Star Trek, the idea is after you've done the pulling, it snaps back into place and you haven't

noticed any change because it happened so fast. So you don't have to worry about space time and distances distorting on a long-term basis. It just happens so quickly because you're traveling through space time in a subspace bubble. Kind of. Treat space and traveling through space like that. Amazing. All right, let's go. Keep going. Here we go. This is, oh my goodness.

I don't know how to say this. You never know how to say anybody's name. Isn't that true? This is not some exception to me. All right, I'm going to call you Joe. This is Joe Samuel Lopez.

He says, hello, StarTalk Enterprise. Oh, I see what you did there, Joe. J-Lo here from Portugal. Here's my simple question. What Star Trek characters do you identify with the most? And thank you. What a great question. I totally have an answer to that. You have one too? Oh, yeah. My answer is kind of a cop-out. But actually, the reason I like Star Trek is because I don't.

with any individual character. I like the stories separate from me. That's a cop out. That's what I told you. Next, next. No, no, no. What's yours? No, no, Chuck. Okay. So the one I like the most is Mr. Spock because I loved how logical he was and I thought it would be so great to live your life without emotion and never be affected by things, just be able to assess them and analyze. But the one I truly identify with the most is Scotty because he's always freak.

in the hell up. You know, I can't do it. I'm sorry. She's got a blue cap and I can't do it. And he always did it, which is more like who I am. He always said he can't do it, but then he always did it. He succeeds. So it would be Scotty for real. So for me, it's James Tiberius Kirk. Really? Because, you know, I've been in leadership positions and you can lead in many different ways. Right. All right.

One of them is you can just lead by example. Another one is you can just follow what everyone wants you to do. So you're the leader because you're actually following them. Yeah. All right. That's technically what our elected officials are supposed to do. Right. Okay. Then you're managed rather than, okay. And so there are different ways to do that. For me, Kirk would get into his own fights. Mm-hmm.

John Luke Picard? Did he ever go into fisticuffs with anybody? Oh, yes. As much as Captain Kirk did? He didn't have to. There was always a flashback, though. There were certain plenty of times. Oh, the flashback.

Oh, you're referring to Tapestry. Yes. Yes, the episode where he gets stabbed through the heart by an angry Nausicaan over a pool fight. Yeah. Well, Dom Jock, technically. But it ends up being the defining and pivotal moment of his life that allows him to be the dynamic decision defender for the person that he is. Sort of. I like the fact that Spock could not beat Kirk in a game of chess because...

Kirk made decisions that were not always logical. And that means he was more human. And being human and fully experiencing everything that makes you human means...

The emotions have to flow through you in some way that you can manage and control, perhaps, but certainly express. Wow. Yeah. And so the fact that he would fight his own fights, he could outsmart computers. I always wanted that power. Okay. You know, the computer says, this is the prime director. We must do this. But wait a minute. You are yourself. Right.

a contamination on the... Error! Error! Error! Error! Sterilized! Yeah, yeah, so that's right, the sterilized episode. So he would put it into a do-loop and the computer couldn't get out of it and the smoke would come out of the computer. Yeah, but I think that that's really something that William Shatner had the writers put in more than... No, he's... He's laughing!

I just got a feeling that William Shatner was like, I am not going to be dumber than a computer. And I certainly am not going to be dumber than Nimoy. Right.

So you're going to make me win at chess and beat the computer. That is a little weird to come after the fact and beat the guy at chess. Right. Okay. So I identified immensely with his character. Wow. Right on. That's cool. That's cool. I love, yeah, that's cool. There's so many of them now. It's hard. That's a hard question. Oh, by the way, was it Sotheby's? Christie's had a Star Trek memorabilia auction. Yes. Okay. And-

So I attended, it was a multi-day thing, it was big, and I attended. And one of the things they, this is an obscure fact, one of the things they sold, they auctioned, were

foam phasers. It is the phaser on the hip of the stunt doubles in those scenes. That makes sense. Wow. So that they don't get hurt by that. Or break the phasers because you know they only had six of them. That's right. Let's be honest. So I just thought it was cool to say thought of everything. When you're filming, you got to do it. Very cool.

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All right, here we go. This is Bryant, and Bryant says, how close are we to developing a warp drive engine so that humans can have the ability to travel faster than light? So, first of all, is faster than light travel, is it possible? I mean, period? We were just talking about Miguel Cubieres' warp drive idea, right, where you can warp space. No object...

can travel through space faster than light. It's a straightforward rule. Object as distinct from energy and photons. If you have other things though, then they might be able to travel faster than light. Now, what about the whole idea of warping space, bending it, so you're not traveling through the medium of space

faster than the speed of light. What you're doing is you're bringing points of space together and then unfolding it so that you have traveled faster than the speed of light, but you have not broken the speed limit itself. What about that? Aren't you effectively moving through a wormhole to connect those two points though? We're still in wormhole world here. What people are talking about when they're traveling faster than light is about moving from point A to point B at a speed faster than light.

186,202 miles per hour, per second, excuse me. Right, it's that kind of thing. So what you were describing is exactly Neil described, some sort of passageway that makes a difference. Can we actually move from point A to point B at those speeds? Still no, but can we make space allow us to get from a point A in space to point B in space faster than light? - Right. - Would have taken us to get there. That is still mathematically possible. The energetics of it though,

are way off the scale. What do you mean mathematically possible? Well, Einstein's general theory of relativity, right, shows the Einstein field equations. Like the way he says it. Dude, Einstein showed this. I have to explain this? Okay. I didn't mean it that way, Chuck. I'm sorry. I'm just saying that with Einstein's general theory of relativity, his field equations basically only at this moment, even a hundred years after they've been written, only have a few solutions that we understand.

you can manipulate the mathematics of it in many, many different ways. Most of which are nonsensical physically, but some of which might actually show that there is a possible way of moving through space and time with that sort of faster than light warping technique. But in order to do it, uh,

with enough energy to move and motion and kinetic stuff, that's the part you get stuck. Because the math shows you ways you can warp space and time to make it happen. But actually getting a piece of mass, like you and me, or a spaceship from that point to that other point. Would you say a piece of ass or a piece of mass? What could you do?

I'm a piece of ass like you and me. I swear that's what he said. Well, both statements are true. I would commit that to compliment Nomar. What? Okay. Both statements are true, but I said mass. But he's referring to the mass. I'm like, I question not Charles's taste. Thank you. Okay.

Okay. Okay, here we go. Yeah, so that's how it works. You can move space and time, but moving a piece of material from one point in space and time to another point in space and time, that requires a lot more than just having the mathematical ability to do it. Let's settle that here. So it's not a matter of new physics. It's a matter of technology working within a solution to that already known physics. That's right. Wow. And I think we're very, very far away from it.

from far away. All right. Yeah. But possible is what I heard. Okay. It has not been ruled out completely. I love it. All right. Okay, here we go. We've got a few more minutes. See how many we can slip in here. All right, so this is Opal Lehman Space Nerd. Opal Lehman Space Nerd says, hi, my name is Opal Lehman. For Chuck, that's Lehman. Okay. God. I don't know.

I'm a 14 year old. Really? 14 too? Hey! Oh man. I'm a 14 year old Atlanta, Georgia. And I was wondering how the antimatter warp drive containment system works. I read somewhere in the Space Chronicles book that they would need to hold the antimatter in a chamber made of antimatter so it wouldn't have to interact with the matter, but

I was wondering how the antimatter containment system would be held. Would it be suspended in a field of magnets or what? That is correct. And by the way, I love that a 14-year-old is thinking about this. This is just a wonderful thing. I love that a 14-year-old just dissed me. Or thought ahead of you to know that you need help. That I would need help there. So what we're saying here is matter, antimatter, of course, annihilates matter.

When they touch. In contact. But if it's contained within a magnetic vessel, a magnetic bottle of some kind, then it would basically bounce off the sides of the bottle without ever touching the matter that it's in.

its exterior to it. You would need to make sure that your antimatter is charged either positively or negatively. And then you would create the bottle with that same kind of charge and it would be contained inside this so-called bottle. But it's not actually a physical bottle made up of massive... By the way, the charge is... The field is the bottle. The field is the bottle. The charge is...

interact with the magnetic field. And why do they do that? Because it is one force, the electromagnetic force. They go together. That's really cool. That's why they're not just separate entities. That is so cool. That's why they can talk to each other. That's amazing. It's good. And then because they're like charged, it's kind of bouncing off of it. That's right.

Dude, that's amazing. Exactly. I love it. God, even science fiction is awesome as science. That's so great. All right. All right, here we go. This is Brian Lacey. Brian says, hi, guys from Baltimore. Brian from Baltimore here. As our technological needs increase, so does our need for a strong and reliable power grid. In Star Trek, they're powering giant ships and even bigger space stations. I know fusion is always challenging.

20 years away, but in the far future, what are they using? Also, how are they powering similar, smaller devices like phasers? That's amazing, because a phaser is very small, but a huge power source. Right, so where's all the power come from? And don't just say dilithium crystals. Because I don't have enough, Captain. I don't have enough. Okay. It is a question that hasn't been satisfactorily answered.

The idea must be that they have some sort of amazing battery.

Some sort of power supply that they can store enough power in like a phaser. Because you don't see them refueling anywhere. That's right. You can wipe out entire buildings with something that's just in the palm of your hand. And that makes sense because they can actually set phasers to overload, which I don't know why you would ever include that. Overload? What happens in overload? They blow up. They blow up. Like bombs. You can use them as detonated devices. Oh. Yeah. Well, that's that sound it makes. Zzz.

- Yeah, okay. - Just so you know it's about to blow. - Yeah. - Right? Yeah, so the way that you draw power out of something like that must be through some sort of a battery or a capacitor or something like that. But it has never been properly described just how that could be put into something. - Just quickly tell everyone what a capacitor is. - Capacitor is basically two plates of conducting things. - Like metal typically. - Yeah, and you can store charge.

on one waiting to jump onto the other. Basically, it's something that can work like a battery, but transfer a huge amount of electricity very quickly. So for example, defibrillators have a capacitor in them. You have the battery charged with capacitor. And then when the defibrillator goes off, the capacitor sends

Thousands of volts in a fraction of a second. And that's how that works. From one contact to the other. Correct. And it goes through the heart, ideally, to pump it into it. Right, to reset it. Unfortunately, the power sources of these devices have never been properly described. In any of the episodes. In any of the episodes. How convenient. You just have to assume that some battery or some capacitor has incredible power. Okay. So, Chuck, I don't know how much—we've got time for, like, one more question. Really? Oh, man.

Doggone it. Here we go. This is Steph. And Steph says, Captain's Log 2024 Alpha Omega. Greetings, Dr. Tyson, Lou, and Lord Chuck Nice. And that's enough of that from me. He says, as we reflect on the world of Star Trek, which is set around the year 2260, I wonder about the feasibility of achieving the advanced technology depicted in the series by that time.

Considering how Back to the Future 2 envisioned the technological landscape of the early 2000s and how closely it aligned with our actual progress, aside from the absence of flying cars, what are the prospects of realizing similar advancements as portrayed in Star Trek by the year 2260? So, you know, what are we looking at? Are we really looking at... Okay, I'll put it to you this way to call this down.

What percentage of these technological wonders that we see in Star Trek will actually exist by the year? Or within 200 years. Within 200 years. My prediction, 1%. Dang! That is so

- So disappointed. - Not at all. 1% of all the stuff that was shown out there. - That's true. - That's a lot of great stuff. - Think of what's already happened, right? Communicators, video calls. We were talking about this earlier. - Yeah, we were talking about that, right? - There's a lot that's already existed. We've basically hit the point in Star Trek technology

where we are doing stuff that our regular- - Did you just make that up, "treknology"? 'Cause that's really cool. - No, no, this is a long, long, no, "treknology" is a long, oft-used phrase. - Okay, "treknology." - "Teknology," where have I been? - I can take no credit for it. - That's great. - I can take no credit for it. - But go ahead, anyway. - Yeah, so we've reached the point where the stuff we don't know how it works yet basically needs physics we don't understand yet. So if one out of a hundred of the physics we don't understand is resolved,

I'm happy. I'm psyched. I got you. But yes, it is true. I see what you're doing there. So you're relating it back to the actual science. Right. The discoveries that we may make that will allow these technological advances to come true. That's why I made the point earlier. Are we missing physics or are we missing technology? Right. And one has to come true.

Generally, one doesn't occur without the other in a scenario where you've got technology doing amazing, fun things. Right. You need the attendant physics to go with it. I think that's where we are now. And I'm excited because we are doing amazing things in our discoveries, in our studies, in our research.

And once we break through that physics level, you know, what is dark matter? What is dark energy? Just to start with. Yeah, dark energy is opposite gravity. Right. Everything it does is what gravity does not want it to do. And so that, if we can harness that, oh my God.

Yeah, exactly. You're talking about an entirely new realm of physics opening up. Realm of physics. Yeah, that's just, wow, now I'm excited. Think about a realm of physics. That's a good thing. That's a really exciting way to look at it. Other realms of physics in 1900 and a little earlier were the first hints of something unusual going on inside of atoms. And we are now in the centennial decade of the,

and discovery of quantum physics. Interesting. A whole realm that enables computers. Absolutely. There is no storage, creation, storage, or retrieval of information, digital information, without an exploitation of the quantum. Quantum physics. Oh my gosh. What a segue that was. Right back to the handy answer book for quantum physics. Yeah. That's really cool, man. That is awesome.

Here's something that clearly will never come true because it hasn't come true yet. Okay.

Every sci-fi movie in the future, everyone's wearing the same clothes. Ah, yes. Have you noticed that? Everybody's got these shoulder things, and they're all wearing the same. I am Gleep. Right. We have resisted that to this day. And I think that's because it's one of the easiest things to resist. We want to make things uniform. We want to make things predictable. But we want to keep ourselves uniform.

- As individuals. - As individuals. - And what's the easiest way to do that? - The easiest way of self-expression is to what you put on your body. - Oh yeah, good, good, I like that. - Or not. As anybody who has a young child knows, they will go through a phase where they're like, "I'm going to be naked and this is just how I am." - I remember those days. They were very freeing. - Yeah, it's just like, we're at a restaurant, you can't do it right now. It's just like, "I don't care about your food, I want to be naked."

Is that how your children speak to you? I had a 16-year-old high school girl in this office, in fact, that chair, who was not even part of the original invite.

of who came to my office. It was her boyfriend, who was a big astrophysics fan, and he just dragged her. Only would I learn, because I like engaging everyone who comes into my office, because there were four of them in there, because it was the kid, his sister, both their parents, and the guy's girlfriend. She was just sitting there, and I just tried to engage everybody, and I say, what are you into? I forgot what she said, but she said she really likes Star Trek movies.

Hey. And she's 16. I said, whoa, like, how much do you like Star Trek? She said, I brought you a gift. I don't know how she got it. This is the Federation trivia book. Wow. Mission 1 and Mission 2. Whoa. This is back when this was like typewriter typeface. Oh, wow. So I'm going to – let's see. Let's see.

If Charles can maintain his geekenchief. He's going to blow it away. I'm not sure, guys. I'm not that good with this sort of stuff. This is like 50 pages. I'm not that good with this sort of stuff. All right. Here we go. Here we go. Revised second edition, 1976. Oh, my gosh. I don't know. Who is DC Fontana? Oh, she's a very famous science fiction writer who wrote a number of beautiful episodes of Star Trek. Oh, my gosh.

Look at what I tell you. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. What is Spock's last name? You couldn't pronounce it. Good answer. Well played. Well played. Well played. Well played. Okay. What is Sulu's first name? Hikaru.

Damn, look at you, man. Killing this. Just getting lucky, guys. In what year was Flint born? I do not know. Who's Flint? I don't remember Flint. What happened to Scotty in The Changeling? I should know this, but I don't. He got changed, I guess, into a ling. Okay. Name the woman Kirk cannot help loving. Is that Joan Collins?

No, isn't it the nurse? Nurse? Oh, that's right. No, but it's not nurse chapel. They made him love her. Well, there was one where when he touched the tears of a particular alien woman, you would have to fall in love with this woman.

But unfortunately, they actually broke that spell because his one true love was the Enterprise. I remember that. Oh my gosh. See, I'm going to be Kirk. I'm Kirk. I'm totally Kirk on that. A couple more. Just a couple more. That's because he had sex with so many aliens. I know, right? Right? It was like whatever. Who is Jojo Krakow?

Charles! Sorry guys, I'm not that bad at this sort of stuff. Jojo Cracko. Sounds like someone from the piece of the action, but I don't remember the exact names. Oh, that was one of my least favorite episodes. Really? Yeah, totally. Okay. Worst gangster name ever. Well, that was the point. They were trying to be effective. Now, see, I'm Jojo Cracko, see? Nah, that's right. Okay. What was the planet in The Man Trap?

It was the planet. Hey. I'm sorry. I'm drawing a blank. I don't know that one. Alas. Okay. So you're not infallible. Absolutely not. That's what we needed here. Oh, please. Our geek in chief.

has some blind spots. Yeah, the blind spots that you would have to be a writer of Star Trek not to have. You'd have to be one of the writers to know these things. I am happy to not know everything. I want to learn more. I want to gain more. Okay, so now. That's the thing we do. Here's what we're going to do. When I think of science fiction and storytelling embedded within it, often it's not just allegory for the challenges we face.

that we face in everyday life. At its best, it's that, yes. But for me, they also represent dream states of a future that if we try hard enough, that we can make happen. And we know it's not going to happen without our collective investments, without our collective sense of what we want to be there waiting for us in the future. But I ask myself, without science fiction,

would we still be in the caves? Without somebody thinking about a future and what role science, technology, invention, innovation, without what role those could play in our lives, I don't want to live in that world. I want to always live not just believing but knowing that we will all be living differently tomorrow than we are today. And not just differently, living better.

Star Trek not only gave us a glimpse into what the future of science and technology might bring, each episode at its best was also a morality tale. Because what good is the power of science and technology going into the future without the wisdom to harness it, to do right by it, to do right by your neighbor in the presence of such power? So if there's a world without science fiction, I don't want to live in it. Keep it coming.

so that we can all dream about a tomorrow that's better than today. That is a cosmic perspective. The two of you, professionally in your lives, have served as radio announcers. Correct. That is true. Okay, so, I have not, but I've pretended I was at times. I want you, in sequence, to give me your smoothest radio voice saying, this has been StarTalk.

Keep looking up. Okay? Your smoothest radio voice. We're going to come down the line here, and the audience is going to get it three times. Okay. Go. Charles. This has been StarTalk. Keep looking up. This has been StarTalk. Keep looking up. This has been StarTalk. Keep looking up.

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