Kristal Reisinger: Part 2 - The Men Who Knew Too Much
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A small-town police force, a missing Alaska Native woman, and a shocking betrayal of trust. I just couldn't believe it. Nome has the bad reputation of people from the surrounding villages coming into the community and end up missing. When 19-year-old Sonia Ivanov vanished one rainy night in Nome, Alaska, it seemed like another case of a young woman gone missing. But days later, her body was discovered, shot in the back of the head.

And the truth was far darker than anyone imagined. Someone with that kind of information, they have to be courageous to speak up. You leave me alone, and I will leave you alone. I will also shoot you in the head if you get close. Evil comes in different forms. You always got to watch out.

How did the search for justice expose one of Nome's own police officers? And what does her story reveal about the deeper injustices that put Indigenous women at risk? I'm Celestia Stanton. Join me on my podcast, Truer Crime, as we unravel the murder of Sonia Ivanoff, a case where trust was shattered and the fight for justice revealed cracks in the very systems meant to protect us. Listen to Truer Crime for free wherever you get your podcasts.

For ad-free listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey.

Thank you so much for listening. Patience, my friends. That's something I've told myself over and over again, especially in season two, the disappearance of Crystal Risinger. And I'm not the best at it. If you've been keeping up, you might have noticed that some of these episodes have been coming out in a bit of a strange order. Dates have been off, timelines have felt a little messy, and I just want to say that's on me. The thing is, right now we're not just putting out a podcast.

We're also getting real-time feedback from the real people involved in these cases. People who were there. People who are still living with the fallout. And when they come to me with new information, I have to make a decision. Wait or hold it for later. Or move fast and get it to you as soon as possible. And we're choosing to move fast. So while it may feel slow and parsed out here at first, just stick with me.

And what you can absolutely count on is that you're going to get a brand new episode of Up and Vanished every single Friday over the next month, no matter what. And on top of that, we're likely to drop even more episodes in between. As these new updates come in, we ingest the information and then give it back to you. And just as a reminder, every one of these episodes is all leading us back to the Up and Vanished season four finale in The Midnight Sun. So we're still on track.

And we're still going to take this all the way to the end. All right, let's get into it. The Navajo Indians have considered Crestone sacred ground. It was a very bright place during the day, and then that night was a very dark place. Crystal was a very smart, talented young lady. The one thing she loved more than anything in life was our daughter. Some people were scared after the podcast came out.

She was about ready to go to the police about being raped. People didn't want her to make that report. I suspect I'll play. Justice will be served and get ready because we're gonna get everybody else involved. Crystal had a best friend named Mikey and his mother Angela had been asking questions around Crestone, getting close to people who knew what really happened. One of those people was tight with Dreddie Bryant. Now if you've listened to season two, this name may sound familiar.

Dreddy Brian. His real name is Brian Otten. And he's right up there next to Catfish when it comes to persons of interest. His presence in this story is undeniable. Dreddy Brian had a relationship with Crystal. He lived with her. And according to people who knew him, he was dangerous. Some of the names we need to edit out is kind of my eyes and ears up there. She was friends with Brian. Obviously they think he's involved. Or they think he knows something. I said, you be careful with him.

That's when she told me, "You were right." She heard him say that Crystal's better off dead. Yeah, she told me this a couple weeks ago. "Dready Brian" is his nickname. He has been overheard many times saying Crystal deserves to be dead, and it's a good thing she's dead. That's really telling. There's that group of people

that are really heavy into the drug scene. There are messages saying, "Hey man, you haven't paid me for my drugs." The problem that I see is no one's gonna talk unless they move out of Crestone because they go disappear too. They're very dangerous people from what Wayne says. I asked Wayne, "How does he make a living?" Well, he doesn't have to. His dad gives him money.

Wayne was a local police officer, and from the very start, something about him felt off. His behavior towards me was strange, sometimes even outright suspicious. But he had an incredibly close relationship with Angela, and he told her a lot about the case. It makes you wonder, why was a cop so loose-lipped about an ongoing investigation? And why did he seem so interested in making sure people knew his version of events? But what really stands out

is what he didn't say. He lived with her. He ended up crashing her car, and Crystal was very upset about that, and they had a falling out. That may have been part of the catalyst. He's the one that ended up bringing her to Crestone for the summer. The more I dug into Brian's past, the more unsettling things became. He wasn't just a guy that Crystal knew. He was a part of her life before she even came to Crestone, and the closer she got to the end,

the more tangled up he seemed to be. When I talked to Brian that night, I talked to him for four hours. Four hours talking to him. I got a pretty good feel that he was not a good guy. Certain things that he would say, tones that he had, it was not sincere. When did he say that he last saw her? The drum circle, and she was seen walking off from it. You could tell that it was not sincere. So here's where we're at.

We know that Dreddy Brian, Brian Otten, was involved in Crystal's life. We know his name keeps coming up over and over. And we know that people were scared of him. But how do we get from suspicion to proof? Well, back in 2016, Crystal's friend Mikey did something kind of risky. He picked up the phone and called Brian himself. Here's a transcript from that phone call. - The last time I actually saw Crystal was over a month ago, maybe around six weeks back.

I remember the last drum circle, it was about two and a half weeks ago. I was drumming for hours, drinking and smoking, and I swear I heard her voice. Someone else said they thought she was there too, but I can't say for sure. The last time I actually spoke with her was the day after the full moon before last. She came by and mentioned that Catfish had posted something about me on Facebook. We had argued because...

She did some work at Catfish's house and didn't pay her. During that conversation, she told me she thought someone might have drugged her. She wasn't sure, but it was something she mentioned. I know Crystal was on a very spiritual path. Sometimes she felt disconnected from the world, like she didn't belong here. Either that or she had stopped taking her medication. And she had a tendency to party hard. Honestly, probably harder than anyone else in her group. As for the people she was hanging around...

They seemed okay. She had good friends, but I can't say for sure what kind of crowd she was with all the time. Some were more spiritual, some were just partying. She had spent time at Catfish's place. I actually went to talk to Catfish recently. He's not great at hiding emotions, and he didn't seem nervous or like he was lying. If he was involved, he'd have to be a real sociopath, but, um...

Listening to the call, you start to notice patterns. Deflection. Evasion. A guy who's just a little too careful with his words.

And then there's moments where he seems to slip, where he seems to say a little too much. This brings us to a man named Sean. Sean was a guy I met in Crestone who was very close to all the key players. And his stories, well, they were strange. The details always shifted. Sometimes things didn't quite add up. But what made Sean different was that he was willing to talk. Over and over again. So I kept calling him. "I've heard catfish several times. He's woken up and said something."

Catfish was like, "I didn't think they'd kill her." I've heard him say that a couple times. I don't know if you know this, but I was living with a catfish up until like a month ago. I just heard that Brian should have admitted to it. I think she's in Brendan Pulver's mom's basement. Catfish is not a stupid person. If he was going to plan anything, it would be to the T. And I'm thinking that they moved the body more than once, would be my guess. And I'm going to be honest with you, Brian's a very dark person.

I think the incinerator would be my guess. That they did maybe three or four different times. And then finally they incinerated it would be my guess. And that's what I've heard. This is a small community, you know, and people talk. Yeah, there's an incinerator there. I'm not quite sure, but I just heard that there's an incinerator there. I've never seen it.

For over a year, Sean and I went back and forth, mostly on Facebook Messenger.

Every now and then, he'd drop little pieces of information. Some of it useful, some of it outright bizarre. But every once in a while, he'd say something that made me stop and think, "Is he just repeating rumors? Or does he actually know something?" Here's a summary of our year-long exchange on Facebook. I can talk, but I'm working. Call me later. Look, man, I talked to John Catfish, and I changed my mind.

I don't think he did it himself, but I think he paid for it or set it up. That's more his style. He wouldn't have the stomach to actually do it without breaking down. You want to know what happened? Crystal blackmailed the wrong people. She was raped by Pulver, Otten, Keenan. That much I know. She tried to use it against them, especially John. And then, well, John knows how to handle problems. I think he paid someone or convinced Otten and Pulver to take care of it.

Josh? I think they brought him in after the fact. Maybe to set him up. Maybe by accident. But listen, you don't understand how Chris Stone works. Everyone acts like these hippie mountain people, but it's all a front. There are dangerous people here. And when you start asking questions, people start talking. And when people start talking, people start disappearing. You want to crack this case? Bring them all in together.

Make them think one of them is already talking, and they'll fold. You only need a whisper of betrayal, and they'll turn on each other. I know these types. I've seen some crazy shit, man. Pulver and Catfish. They have nightmares. Like wake up screaming nightmares. Heard Pulver screaming about the girl. Catfish too, man. They argue about it. Two falls ago, Pulver shot John in the hand. They were blaming each other.

That's on record somewhere. And I don't know if I even want to say this, but there's someone else. Someone worse. Someone already in prison for something just like this. John and him deny knowing each other, but I know for a fact they do. Wouldn't be surprised if he was the one actually hired to do it. I don't want to say his name here, but call me later. And now? Now I'm fucked. People know I talked. It's out. I got a hit on me. You don't get a paint.

In my world, a snitch is a snitch. And snitches die. I was told straight up, it'll be someone I trust. Someone close to me. That's how it's gonna happen. Big Cat? Harmless? Yeah. 'Cause anyone he's done something to is already dead. Catfish? His family will pay to protect him. You don't get how deep this goes. Listen, Brian Otten? He's in Salida. Brendan Pulver? Still in Crestone. Josh Pierce? California.

El Centro, I think. Now's your shot, man. Catfish is in jail. If you pressure him right, he'll crack. He's not as strong as he pretends to be. Tell Cahill someone else got arrested and started talking. That'll make him panic. And look, I've been a mess. I know that. I blamed you for a lot of shit, but I get it now. You're actually trying, and I want these people to pay. One last thing. Michael Burke. Fallsburg. New York. Maria Scorsese.

At this point, we have two names that won't go away: Dreddy Bryan and Catfish John. No matter where I looked, everything in this case led back to them.

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There's someone I want you to hear from.

She's not from Creststone, but she spent enough time there, and with the people involved in Crystal's case, to know exactly how things worked there. She wasn't some outsider with wild theories. She was someone who knew these people personally. She knew the key players: Dreddy Bryant, Catfish. And over the years, she started noticing things they weren't saying out loud. The things that they avoided. The things they laughed off when they thought no one was listening.

I first got in contact with her through Facebook. She was nervous, because people who talk in Crestone have a way of disappearing. But eventually, over the course of almost a year, she could no longer keep quiet. During her time in Crestone, she became close with Dreddy Bryan. Close enough for him to let his guard down, and she had seen firsthand what that looked like.

What you're about to hear is a summarized version of a Facebook conversation I had with her that took place over the course of almost two years. Everyone is angry about you asking them questions. I left town. I have something I want to say, but I'm scared. If anyone finds out I said it, I'm in danger. Crystal is buried on property owned by the Strom family in Baca.

Good luck solving it. You can't go up against wealthy families. Their kids can do whatever they want and money covers everything. The Pierce boys won't confess and Catfish won't either. They drugged Crystal, held her there and took photos. She overdosed and they called in others to help hide it. She wasn't the first girl they did this to. Everyone knows but is too afraid to speak up. I was threatened after talking to you because you got close to the truth.

I had to leave. She's not in a mine shaft. She's buried in the Baka. Someone threatened me saying it wouldn't be a problem to add another body there. Josh Pierce knows. Robert knows. Brian knows. But they won't talk because it would implicate them. Crystal was dosed with heroin and meth, then buried in Baka. If this information helps, give Akasha the reward money.

Tell her it's from her mom. A gift from the spirit world. I'm deleting this conversation. Don't respond. He trusts me and he was drunk. Only kids and drunk people tell the truth. I got a confession from Brian Otten. I'm sorry, but I didn't record it. I'm sorry, Payne. Brian said this: I threw her into the living room from the balcony. It broke her bones. And she died. He told me this yesterday.

I'm with him right now. I'll try to get him to say something on tape. He admitted this to me about an hour ago. He said, "I did something extremely violent and got away with it. We were sitting with four others, but no one else seemed to realize what he meant." He said, "She was everywhere. Don't message me back. I almost got caught when he looked at my phone. He's drinking a lot and getting comfortable. I'm scared. He's suspecting something." His vibe changed. He said there were witnesses.

He thinks he got away with it, but he's still paranoid. I'm scared. I just left immediately. I'm so sorry. But find that balcony. Why is it that Brian has confessed to multiple people yet nothing has been done? Same story. He threw her from a balcony in a jealous rage. Why can't they charge him? Crystal was cremated. She's the sunrise over Sangre de Cristos. Find that balcony.

Angela had been digging just as much as I had, and the things she was uncovering, they all made one thing very clear. Crystal's story wasn't just some tragic mystery. It was a cover-up. The landlord talked to her for a long time. She went up Crystal's apartment, which was above her, knocked on the door, and Crystal came to the door crying. She had been raped. She had been drugged, and she had been raped. Crystal was debating on whether to go to the police or not about it.

At a certain point I realized I needed a different approach. So I did something a little unconventional. I made a fake Facebook account. Sound familiar?

Well, this was not my first rodeo, I guess. But on this fake Facebook, I started talking to Dretty Brian directly. He knew that I wasn't who I said I was, and that was fine. But for whatever reason, that didn't stop him from talking to me. I'm in Cincinnati dealing with an old driver's license hold from a past charge. Should be wrapped up by summer. I had a pending DUI charge I never went to court for, so I'm handling it now.

Not sure who you are, but thanks for the cryptic message from a faceless stranger who seems to know me, I guess. Is this Eric in the red Jeep? You don't know what you're talking about. I've told all I know. Ooh, I'm so fucking terrified. You want to talk sometime, Mr. Anonymous texter? I've been forthcoming. I've talked extensively with her adopted family, her best friend, and the police. I'm not scared at all.

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And with Brian Otten, the more we talked, the more I started to see through him. And then there was someone else. Another woman that got close to Dretty Brian.

Again, this was also a Facebook message conversation that took place over a year. "Payne, people are blowing up my inbox. They think I know Brian Otten. I grew up next to a Brian Otten in Ohio. He was my childhood friend. This cannot be the same guy. He's part of a normal Catholic family, still living on the same street I grew up on. He has zero connections to Colorado. These people have it wrong."

Years after season two of the podcast had ended, it was all starting to click together. Everyone suspected him, and yet nothing had been done about it. Why? "Payne, I just called them. I can't believe this. It's the same Brian Otten. I'm trying to figure out how to approach this. These people are like family to me. Payne, I got in touch with Brian. He's back in Cincinnati now. He's staying at a hotel. Just got out of rehab, but he's drinking heavily. I called him on the phone.

Just like every other bad guy in an Up and Vantage story, I needed to talk to him myself.

and that's exactly what i set out to do he sometimes pretends like he doesn't know about the podcast then later admits he's listened to it he is definitely distancing himself but is willing to talk to me in person pain i need your guidance here pain i think brian killed her i don't think he was alone but he was involved he knows what happened it wasn't catfish it was brian brian otten

So I circled back to Brian Otten with my fake Facebook. He seemed to talk about Crystal in the past tense. He talked about violence, and in the end, he all but admitted what happened. Motherfucker. Wanna have a face-to-face? Cameras rolling? You don't know me. You don't know me from Adam, but you talk a lot of shit. I'm grieving too, you prick. Give me your number, I'll fucking call you.

When I finally got Brian to agree to meet with me, I thought, "This is it. This is my chance to get him on record." And then, the next morning, I got a message. A message that changed everything. Forever. Hey Payne, my name is Lance. Brian was using my phone to message people and it still logged in. I'm so sorry to deliver this news. He passed away yesterday. We won't know for sure until the coroner tells me.

But it looked like he got sick from alcohol and developed a lung infection, and maybe he couldn't breathe. Then he tried to self-medicate with some heroin. He choked on an orange, probably from passing out, being so mellow and relaxed. But Brian is dead. I'm sorry. But none of it mattered, because Brian Otten was never arrested for Crystal's murder. And now, Brian Otten is dead. Not only that, but Cathis John is dead too.

Brian is dead. Catfish is dead. Crystal is still gone. The people who helped cover it up, the people who saw what happened, the people who participated, they're still out there. And they're probably listening to this right now. We have a pretty good idea of what happened that night. And we know that there was at least a dozen people who know what happened too. And that's what I've spent the last four years talking to the CBI about.

Because here's the thing, dead men can't talk, but the people who were there, the ones who kept this secret for all these years, they can. And I'm willing to bet when the pressure is on, one of them will. This case isn't closed, it's actually wide open. Come back next week for another installment of Crystal's Story and get an inside look of our years-long relationship with the CBI. The truth is, I have been talking to them the whole time.

But about three years ago, a new case agent contacted me. And since then, we've met on multiple occasions, giving him key information I find important in this case, stuff I think might help solve it. And he agreed to let me record all of it. Every single investigation we've done leads back to this moment. We're still on track, week by week. I appreciate your patience, and I truly love all the support you give us. So thank you.

How many times have you called a podcaster to help figure it out? Zero. I have never called the media for anything in any one of my cases. I'm not a podcast listener. I did not work on this case. I'd heard about it and then I heard other people talking about your podcast. So I listened to it. Fast forward to last year, this case was assigned to me and I recalled your podcast. I re-listened to it and I thought you had valuable information.

Sometimes I think that the media is helpful. Sometimes I don't think they are. And in this instance, I thought you guys were trying to be very helpful, doing dog searches and reaching out to people and really being very thoughtful in what you were doing. Just your overall perspective that you generated through the podcast, that you cared about Crystal, her family, and you also wanted a resolution. That's what...

Stay tuned for another episode on the disappearance of Crystal Reisinger coming out next Friday. In the meantime, if you want to see some video and behind-the-scenes clips from all my investigations, go check out my Instagram. It's just at PayneLindsay. And remember, every new episode on an old case is all leading back to season four in The Midnight Sun.

Thank you.

by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik-Glen, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team.

Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening. Here are three things that you need to know about Tenderfoot TV's brand new true crime podcast, Crook County.

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