Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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A while back, I was at the Osceola Star with Dusty Vassy and he shared with me some new information he heard. A nurse, okay, a friend of mine contacted me and told me that a nurse, and I've actually had multiple people tell me this story, but the first time I heard it was a friend told me that a nurse had spoke to Ryan Duke.
I've since learned he was having blood drawn. And she knew him separately from, I guess, before all this happened and asked, you know, what happened? And he said, apparently, that she did not die.
I mean, she was not, she died, but she, she was not murdered that she died accidentally from an overdose. Now, obviously I find that hard to believe because she didn't even drink. You know, I've had multiple people tell me that she never ever drank. So the idea that she was doing drugs at a party, which apparently she, that's what Ryan said. Um, I believe it was supposed to be a pecan orchard. Now I don't know what pecan orchard. Um,
But obviously, multiple people have contacted me. I believe that the conversation happened. I don't necessarily believe that the story that was told is true. I don't necessarily believe that. I believe that that is the story Ryan told, or at least close to it. But I just don't believe that that's necessarily true. No matter how I try to frame the story or how...
Which way you try to look at it, there's problems. There's some flaw. Apparently, according to one story I've heard, he was messed up the whole time. Well, in this situation with the high adrenaline, you don't get –
You don't come to your senses. You don't sober up some. The idea that it didn't happen in the house, there's problems with that. There's problems with everything I hear. I haven't heard one theory that just snapped together like a Lego. Well, the indictments are very vague.
And there's that used his hand. And to me, because I've heard, whether it's true or not, I believe it, that Ryan has said that he hit her. Now, that's multiple stories have said that. And from what Bo seems to be saying is that at least in one conversation, he supposedly said that Ryan strangled her. Well, which one was it? Let's be clear about some things. Tara didn't do drugs.
Tara didn't even drink. So how could any of this be true? Even if Ryan did say these things to a nurse, how could he be trusted? After all, he's in jail for her murder. Proposing any other scenario for her death would obviously be in his best interest. A few weeks later, I heard the story again, this time from someone different. Maurice Godwin talked to somebody.
Ryan had to be taken to the hospital for, I guess, dialysis or something. Yeah. And it said that while he was there, he had told a friend of theirs his version of the story of what happened. And, you know, I didn't say anything at first when he mentioned that. I let him tell his story because I wanted to see what he was going to say before I said anything. But he, and he gave me the, he gave me her name and said,
She basically, she said that she was like, what the hell? I don't know if she knows Ryan or, I mean, not really she does, but she's like, what the hell, Ryan? And he basically told her that Tara OD'd. And she was, said at first she was just out cold. And so they put her in, and I've never heard this name until today, ****.
Yeah. They put her in his truck and left her, and they continued to, I guess, drink, party, socialize, whatever. And then later, when they went to check on her, she was dead. So they freaked out. And so they hid her body, and I guess disposed of it later. He did say that Ryan drove her car back, and Bo picked him up, and that Ryan told her that the glove was his.
One thing I did point out is I made the comment to this person. I said, you know, one problem that I have with this story is that most of the time when a prisoner or someone who's in jail, which I guess they still call that an inmate, whatever, is transported anywhere, they have a guard with them. And I said, you know, considering what he was arrested for, I doubt very seriously they were going to leave him alone with a female prisoner.
The information was interesting, but it's completely unverifiable.
For all we know, Ryan Duke didn't even say that. And it's one of those white rabbits I've been chasing since day one in this case. So I set all this aside and focused on solid information obtained straight from the sources. One thing that I could never figure out in this case was where Bo and Ryan lived during the time that Tara went missing. It's easy to assume that based on all the stories you've heard that Bo and Ryan live on the pecan orchard.
Well, they didn't. Not only that, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Not a single friend of Bo and Ryan, or Brooke herself, could clarify where they lived. Why was that? Even a search through property records turned up absolutely nothing.
Brooke said that there were seven to eight people at their house on the night Tara went missing. She said the guys were drinking and that eventually they all left and that Bo was asleep when Ryan allegedly stole his truck and drove to Tara's house. Because none of these boys would ever talk to me, I could not be certain who else was there that night or any night for that matter. All I can do is go off the facts. Pictures from old MySpace accounts reveal very clearly who was in this friend circle. It was the same guys everywhere I looked.
And the more people I talked to on the outer circle of this friend group, the more confirmation I began to receive. A few episodes back, I told you that I had recently received threats and nasty emails from locals. This is true. A majority of this anger stemmed directly from having mentioned this group of friends on the podcast. Mind you, not by name, but literally just the words group of friends. The rest of the dots, these people connected on their own.
But just so we're clear, I'm not saying these guys did anything, or even knew anything for that matter. I've been told countless rumors and theories about nearly every person in this case, including this friend group, but I refuse to broadcast anything without vetting it. We've learned from the horse's mouth that a search was conducted on this pecan orchard just two months after Tara went missing, all based on a tip that Ryan Duke said at a party one night that he killed Tara.
Giving Bill and Ryan's friends the benefit of the doubt, let's say that only one person heard that. And maybe that person alone went to law enforcement with the tip. It's probable. Maybe even likely. And maybe he wasn't a close friend, but someone who didn't hang out that often and just happened to be there that night. All these things are possible. But based on the limited information I have, I can't rule it in or out.
And as I've poked around for the answer, I've been shut out repeatedly and harassed with nasty emails and messages. All of this seems so disproportionate. I'm not saying you did anything. What if Marcus Harper had come out of the woodworks in the very beginning, bombarding me with angry words before I had even said his name? That would be a red flag. Would it not?
I'm telling you all this to give you some perspective. And though I always do my best to call things how I see it, I know that regardless of why anyone is doing anything in this case, this has been a highly emotional experience for everyone. Tara Grinstead's disappearance has haunted the town of Osceola for over a decade. It's remained an open wound. And when I came into the picture, in some ways, it's like I ripped off the band-aid. So I completely understand why someone could view what I'm doing negatively.
but I also know that one day, people will see clearly again and look back on everything that's happened and learn from it. Before I get too sidetracked, I want to bring you back to my main point. I have an interview with one of the friends in this circle, and I've had it for months. This person was very reluctant to meet, but he felt compelled to clear the air. I recorded this interview with his permission, but per his request, I will not be using his real voice, and his name will remain anonymous.
So in this clip you're about to hear, his voice has been replaced by someone else. But my part of the conversation has remained the same. This is a verbatim copy of our real recorded conversation. When did you first hear about what happened to Tara? You mean about her disappearance? About what really happened to her. Well, I got a call, I think, 10 days before the press release and checked my voicemail. And it was a GBI agent asking or...
Saying that he wanted to meet up with me and talk. So I called him back and told him that was fine. I was able to win ever, and as soon as he was ready, and we actually, we met in this room. And they came out here that next morning, and that's the first thing. I don't even think I could wait before they got in the door. I was like, can you all please tell me what this is about? At first, when he said, well, it's got to do with a homicide investigation, I was shocked.
Well, then he mentioned the terror case. So that was, and that was the day before press release. So from the moment I was interviewed by them, well, it really didn't start till the day after, I guess, when they announced that there was going to be a press release. And all them rumors started flying and the names were coming up and all that. Why did they want to talk to you? Somebody else that they had interviewed had said that I supposedly knew something or something
I was at one of them parties where supposedly they were bragging about it and they were bragging but saying they knew what happened to her. And then I later went back and looked and finally figured out the weekend of the party supposedly happened. I was actually in Jacksonville at the Georgia-Florida game.
Does this whole thing shock you? Yeah, it was very shocking. How did you feel when you learned? It's just, I don't know how to describe it. I mean, two guys that I once considered friends of mine, or, you know, still do, at least one of them, they're still, you know, considered a friend. I think maybe in a podcast or heard a couple of different places that Ryan, he's just not that type of person. And Bo isn't either. I mean...
Well, they're different personalities. Bo is. I don't know. He's not, despite what people have heard or what people say about him, he's not that person. I mean, he's not a crazy psychopathic killer. I mean, just not. He's just not. I know him, and I know he ain't. That ain't him.
What could have driven them to do this? Well, like I said earlier, the only sense that I could make of it, the only thing that, well, it makes sense to me is that there's some sort of accident. I just don't see either one of them doing that kind of harm on purpose. Never would have expected it, ever. I was completely shocked when their names were released. I mean, I was in the balcony at the press release. And when they said Ryan's name, I was like, there's no fucking way. I don't believe it.
There's more to it. There's, I just... There's more to it than Ryan and Bo? Well, not necessarily more people involved, but more to it than the burglary gone wrong. Because that's bullshit. And if that turns out to be true, I mean, I will be shocked. Hell, I still may not even believe it. Because, I mean, that's not them. And that does not make sense. Like I say...
And like I did say, the only thing that the only scenario that I've been able to think of that makes sense to me was there was some kind of accident gone wrong, you know, but one or the other or maybe both. We're hanging out with her one night and something, you know, some kind of accident happened. Yeah, I'm ready for it all to be over with. I want the truth, but would love to know exactly what happened.
Yeah, I'm ready for it all to be over with, and I want the truth. But we'd love to know exactly what happened. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget.
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Even six months after Ryan Duke's arrest, it still feels like we know little to nothing about him. We've all learned our fair share about Bo Dukes, mostly thanks to himself.
But because Ryan lived a much more quiet life and can't troll the discussion boards from inside jail, he remains a mystery. I reached out several times to members of the Duke family, but I never got a response.
That is, until a few weeks ago. I exchanged a few messages on Facebook with Ryan's mom. And after about a week or so, she asked to do an interview, but under one condition. That Dusty Vassey comes with me. She arranged a day and time to meet with us. And she gave me her address. All I had to do now was get Dusty on board, which I knew he would be.
I talked to Ryan Duke's mom yesterday. Yeah. And she said that she wants to meet me on Saturday at 1 o'clock, but she wants you to come too. Okay, I can do that. Okay, cool. I told her that you could, but I wanted to, like, verify. I figured that you wouldn't not do that. But, yes, I wanted to make sure that was cool.
but she's down to meet at their house, and she gave me the address. Okay. Dusty had gotten sick about a month ago. One day out of the blue, he woke up, and his voice was almost entirely gone. He could barely speak. The Tara Grinstead investigation has been an emotional rollercoaster for everyone.
and Dusty especially. He too is someone who's been reporting on this case on a regular basis. But Dusty and I have had two vastly different experiences. I have and always will be an outsider of this community. Other than my grandma, I have no family ties or close friends in the area. But Dusty lives here. Osceola is his home. So his approach and the way it's affected his daily life is completely different than me.
On the June 28th issue of the Oscilla Star, Dusty wrote an article titled, I Lost My Voice. In my opinion, it's his best article yet. Dusty opens the article by saying, I lost my voice. It's been gone nearly two weeks now, so I'm worrying it may be permanent. Maybe that's a good thing, if it will stop me from being recorded saying some of the things I said in last week's episode of Up and Vanished.
He goes on to say,
and I enjoy the heck out of eating them. But personally, I prefer fishing with a cork, where the fish bite when they want to. So I'm gonna get in another boat. Of all the people I've met throughout this podcast, no one has supported me more than Dusty Vassie. Over the past year, we've built a friendship, a real friendship, one that will live on for a lifetime after the podcast is over. He's one of the kindest human beings I've ever met, and he's one of the most tactful and well-spoken journalists I've ever encountered.
Dusty agreed to go with me for the interview with Ryan Duke's mom. But on the morning of, he messaged me with some frightening news. His condition had worsened overnight and he had to get immediate medical treatment. With that being said, I want to take this moment to ask you to keep Dusty Vassie in your thoughts and prayers. This man embraced me from the moment I stepped foot in Irwin County. And if it weren't for him, I don't think I could have made this podcast at all.
Ryan Duke lived in an area called Pleasure Lake, about 15 minutes outside downtown Osceola. The lake itself is actually a swamp. En route to Pleasure Lake, within minutes of traveling down Tipton Highway, the terrain begins to change rapidly. I was nervous this time. I was going to do this alone. Starting route to Pleasure Lake. I arrived at a small house. I sat in the car for a few minutes as I gathered my thoughts.
I had ran over the questions I wanted to ask her a dozen times, but in this moment, my mind was blank. I was greeted by Ryan's mom, Karen, his younger brother, James, and four dogs. Without the presence of Dusty, at first they were a little uneasy, but after a few minutes, we sat down at the table and we began to talk.
I hope. I really hope.
Whether it's for better or worse, I hope we find out what happened. He was, from what I saw, but he'd probably know more about that. He was very kind and a little bit on the romantic side. You know, flowers and poetry. He was very, very romantic. A few times I did see him with his girl. A lot of times he'd have candles made up around the room. The only girl that I seen him break up with,
that affected him. I really won't say it tore him up, but he was down about it and it upset him. He was sad, just like a normal breakup. You don't want to see anything that reminds you of the person. Anytime you do, you see something that reminds you of them. It makes you sad, and that's what it seemed like. It just seemed sad. He wasn't much of a...
talker about stuff like that. You know, when he was going through something, he wanted to be alone. You told me one time that you have to understand Ryan to know the way he is. You said that he's just a sad person. Can you elaborate on that? Well, what I meant by that is I attribute it to the alcohol and substance abuse because when you're depressed and you do that, it just brings you even further down.
He did and still does at times struggle with depression and anxiety and panic attacks. You know, he can't go out and be around a lot of people because he literally will have a panic attack. Really? Was he always like that or did that just kind of develop over time? It just developed over time because he was pretty happy in high school. I mean...
Well, but I mean, he was popular. You know, we had a lot of friends. I can't believe that this one night that he would break into her house and kill her, and he's never done any... It just doesn't make any sense at all. He's just not that type of person. But, you know, they're trying to tell me that...
Well, he just decides he's going to break in to, of all people, a schoolteacher's house. Ryan worked. You know, Bo was the one that didn't work. But he didn't have to work. But I just can't believe that this one night he decides that he's going to do this. That's ridiculous. It makes no sense. No sense to me at all.
Take me back to when this all started about six months ago. Whenever the GBI called, just break down how that happened from your perspective. They came out here and pulled up in the yard over there. And when I realized something was going on, of course, I walked out and
They really didn't have much to say to me. They said they would come and talk to me after they talked to Ryan. Is this the FBI you're talking about? Yeah. They wanted him to come to the police station because they said they had some questions for him. And I told them, well, he doesn't have a license, so I would bring him up there tomorrow, which was, what, on a Wednesday.
And so I took him up there and... The tomorrow was a Wednesday? Yeah. So this is two days before the press conference? Yeah. They came on Tuesday and you took him up there on Wednesday? Yeah. I mean, they just said they had a few questions for him. It wouldn't take very long. And they came out. You know, we was waiting in the lobby. Came out and got him. Said, you know, won't take but a minute. He'll be right back. And, uh...
Well, it didn't take but a minute. They came back in about, what was it, 20, 25 minutes later. I had just walked in the door and said that they were going to arrest him for terrorist murder. Wouldn't give us no reason why. Just for us to keep our mouth shut and try to avoid any media, let them do their job. And that's what we've done. We've sat back and
It was very confusing. How long was the GBI here that first day? About 15 minutes. And then y'all had agreed that we'll take Ryan up there at 2 o'clock tomorrow? Yeah. So when the GBI left, you were with Ryan. What did you ask him, or what did y'all talk about? Were you saying, hey, what was that about? Well, yeah, of course I asked him what it was about. And he said they wanted to ask him some questions about Tara.
And I was like, well, why? Why do they want to ask you something? And he said he didn't know. And I said, well, they probably think you've heard something, you know, like everybody has heard something over the years. And so that's what we figured it was. I asked him one simple question. I asked him, did you kill her? And he said, no, ma'am, I did not.
Well, no, I did ask him. I said, do you know he did? And he said no. And that was good enough for me. You think he was telling the truth when he told you that? Yeah, I absolutely do. I know he was scared, you know. I mean, I was scared. We're just normal people, you know. GBI's coming out here. And it was just so out of the blue. Do you remember that weekend that is in question back in 2005?
Were you anywhere around that time? The only thing, I was in Tara's class the day she went missing. Come to school that morning, everybody was freaking out because she wasn't there. Nobody had heard from her. But as far as the weekend goes and what I did, no clue. I know I played football, so I probably had a football game that night. Next night, I normally hung out with my friends. I didn't really see Ryan a whole lot.
you know, on the weekends unless, you know, I didn't have nothing to do or he invited me over for a football game or something like that. I was normally with my friends. And I said I woke up the day or that Monday, went to school, and, you know, she didn't show up. And around that time frame, that's pretty much the only thing that I can remember. Where did Bill and Ryan live? In that house. The trailer was Fred's, remember? Yeah.
Yeah, but Fred and Steven and Ryan lived... Yeah, but Fred had to move because he got that job offer somewhere. I don't know exactly when they moved to that house, but... If I'm not mistaken, I think... Before they lived there, they lived in a trailer almost outside of Fitzgerald, not quite outside of Fitzgerald, but... It's kind of catacorny of the hospital. Yeah. I don't know. What's that house at?
It was by the gas station. What's the gas station called? Taylor's. Taylor's, I think. Yeah, it's Taylor's, but the street's on Merrimack. The house has been torn down. Was Ryan a football fan? Oh, yeah. What's his favorite teams? As far as I know, Bulldogs and Falcons. Yeah? Yeah. I heard that he could have blacked out.
And something happened, and then woke up the next day, and Bo's telling him what he'd done. Hey, man, you've done this, and I'll help you do this, and we'll be good. But anybody who's ever blacked out before has no way of knowing what you've done. Like I said, he blacked out plenty of times, fairly regularly. I won't say all the time, but...
If he got on it hard, more than likely he would. Who knows what they'd do other than what they're being told, you know, when you black out. Right. Hopefully your best friend will tell you what you did. Hopefully, you know, but. How do you, you know, feel about, you know, the loss of Tara and what may have happened to this woman outside of, you know, everything else that you guys are dealing with? It's tragic. It's tragic.
It really is. It's unbelievable, you know, really what happened. Like I said, I was in her class when all that happened, and it affected a lot of my friends. It affected me because she was my teacher. I knew her pretty well. I think I was in 10th grade at the time. So I'd known her my whole 9th grade year, talked to her, and then I was in her class my 10th grade year. So it's devastating to me. It still is. I can't, for the life of me, imagine what her family is going through. We're going through a lot.
you know, of course, but I can't imagine what they might be feeling. That's one of the things that I wrote Miss Connie a letter. One of the things I said in that was, I feel like I have walked into your nightmare that you've been living for over 11 years now, and now I'm right in the middle of it, and I don't know how she deals with it. And I think...
With a lot of this stuff that Bo was saying, that people actually forget that Tara was the victim. You know, let's not make any more victims out of this. You know, it's bad enough already. And so that's where, you know, the truth comes in. That family, they deserve the truth. Yeah, they do.
Even if your son was involved somehow? Yes. I feel like if Ryan had his involvement, whatever it may be, he needs to be punished. Definitely. Definitely. Most definitely. If he had any involvement whatsoever, then he needs to be held accountable for it. Well, I think everybody should. Anybody. Anybody that's involved in it. So what do you want to happen next? What I want to happen, I want somebody to tell the truth. I want some closure, you know.
Because they're on the other end of that. You know, they got the GPI going. Yeah, we got him.
I wouldn't know what to say to them about that, you know, other than just I don't believe my son did it. I just don't believe it. And I hope that some way, somehow, the truth will come out for everybody, for everybody's sake. And we finally put this to rest. And, you know, it's been too long. It's been too long. Yeah, I do too. Like I said, if Ryan had any involvement, then...
He needs to, you know, be held accountable. And as far as Tara's family goes, you know, like I said, I truly cannot imagine what they've had to go through. And I wouldn't, you know, dream of that happening to anybody. You know, I'm really sorry, you know, that they've had to deal with this. And I'm even more sorry if Ryan had anything to do with it.
Yeah, I mean, I agree with James. I mean, if Ryan had anything to do with it, yeah, he needs to pay for that. How is Ryan's health? I heard something that he had, like, renal failure or something like that. Isn't that true? Can you tell me about that a little bit, his health conditions and how he was and how he's doing now? Yeah.
So he's limp in the courtroom that day. He's got the veins in his legs collapsed. And when they got him blew back up, I guess you'd call it, there was nerve damage done to his feet. So he's got permanent nerve damage. And that's why he's limping. What caused that? I don't know. They never did say. But, you know, he had... Circulation.
circulation in his legs and his veins eventually just collapsed because there wasn't enough blood running through just from not being active. He had gone into organ failure. His organs were shutting down and they transferred him to Douglas and he stayed in ICU. What? No, it wasn't that long.
He was in there on dialysis too. He was on dialysis for about four months. In the hospital. In the hospital, he was on that dialysis machine constantly 24-7. Yeah, and then we had to go twice a week. Yeah, they finally got it. You know, he responded to it, but they told him then that he was going to have to stop drinking.
You know, it was dumbed up. His liver and both of his kidneys were shutting down in Osceola. That's why they sent him to Douglas. And once they got his liver and his kidneys back going, he was on dialysis in the hospital for three weeks a month. How's his health now? Has it declined or has it stayed the same? It's gotten better and it's...
Kind of leveled off. He's got high blood pressure. Before you was arrested, how was his health that day? He constantly suffers from chronic pain just from his feet, not having that circulation like he should. Well, he's got that nerve damage that's constant.
Like she said, he's got high blood pressure. You know, his liver and his kidneys, you know, they were... He still has to be careful. They're better now, you know, but they're not nearly as good as what they should be. You know, he's done pretty good at taking care of himself, you know, for the most part after all that stuff happened. You know, after all his liver and his kidneys shut down and, you know, he realized that he had to...
stopped drinking, you know, he did and started taking his medicine like he should. And as far as health wise, you know, he was in a lot better health than what he was. Right. And as far as when they picked him up. That's good. We love Ryan. We don't believe he did this and we're going to support him and we're behind him 100%.
They're also behind Tara's family too. We stand with them just as much as we stand with Ryan. If he had something to do with it, then we want him punished just like they do. And we also want justice for Tara, whoever done this, to be brought to justice. So they know exactly what happened. That's what it all boils down to.
Of the many questions I had about Ryan, some of them were answered.
One of them being where Ryan and Bo lived at the time, in a little house across the street from a gas station called Taylor's. Like the rest of us, Ryan Duke's family seemed to have little to no inclination of how long this might take. It's been six months since Ryan was arrested, but a trial or plea seemed nowhere in sight. I asked Philip Holloway for his thoughts on this and the future of this case. What's going to happen next? And more importantly, when?
The first thing that I want to think of, and I want everybody to remember, and hopefully they will, is that an innocent person lost her life.
And she lost her life in the most senseless sort of a way, and for undoubtedly a senseless reason. When we first learned of the arrest of Ryan Duke in connection with Tara's murder, I would have bet my last dollar that there was not going to be a trial in the case, that certainly some kind of a plea deal would be reached, and some hasty resolution of this would take place in a courtroom and...
The case would be closed and everybody could claim victory.
But as we've learned more about the case, I'm not quite as certain as I was in the beginning that there will be a swift plea deal in this case. And I guess it's sort of 50-50 with me as to whether or not there actually will be a trial. But I'm leaning more and more that way the more I think about the case and the more I think about what we've learned. Really, it's not going to be in a big hurry to have a trial because there's only three possible sentences.
One is the death penalty. The next worse is life without parole. And the only other remaining possible penalty for someone convicted of murder is life in prison with the possibility of parole. So unless there's some sort of a really sweet deal that Ryan's offered, it makes sense to try to do everything they can from the defense side
to protect his rights, which include a right to a trial, and to avoid a conviction. That's what the defense's job is. Every member of society has an interest in seeing that justice is not delayed. But primarily, the right to a speedy trial belongs to the accused. Just like any other right, this right can be waived. I hope that the GBI didn't blow it back in 2005 and let the statute of limitations start to run.
as pertains to the state of Georgia versus Bo Dukes. I think this case is a textbook example that highlights the problems that exist in the criminal justice system. All too often, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing. Evil really does exist in this world. Monsters are real.
Up and Vanished changed my life. It's affected the lives of hundreds of people. It's brought truth. It's exposed secrets. And most of all, it's shared with the world the story of an incredible person named Tara Grinstead. It's hard to find the good in a story like this. But I think that underneath all the lies, deceit, and the heinous taking of someone's life, there's something we can all learn from this. Tara Grinstead's disappearance had an astounding ripple effect, touching the lives of people all across the world. She was a beautiful person,
whose life and dreams were taken. And the decade of searching for truth revealed many dark secrets about the town she lived in and forced people, including myself, to look in the mirror. I want to thank all those who've listened to Tara Grinstead's story, and I'm honored to have had the privilege to share it with you. May Tara Grinstead rest in peace. May those responsible face the consequences. May the Grinstead family heal. And may this community in South Georgia become whole again.
As tough as it is, it's time to let the justice system run its course and for all the healing to begin. But before I conclude this season, I want to share one more thing with you. Not too long ago, I met a man in a parking lot about an hour outside of Osceola. We spoke for nearly four hours that night.
He has no direct connection to Tara, the accused killers, or anyone else. But he had a story that he was compelled to tell me. Given his own position and his job in the community, he asked that I keep him completely anonymous. In the column about to play you, his voice has been changed, but the words are exactly what he told me. I had a relative who's since passed away that used to go to the Whitehorse in Fitzgerald on a regular basis.
He and I both are friends with the guy that played in a band down there. They were kind of like the house band. They were playing there not just every other weekend or once a month, but they were literally playing there every week. That's part of my brother's social life. He was there every time they played. He would just go there. My relative was one of these guys who's never met a stranger, who feels like his point, his purpose in life was to help other people. If he saw somebody that needed a dime, he'd give them a dime.
If he saw somebody that needed a ride or whatever, he would help them. He was very outgoing with that type of thing.
He trusted people and was just a giving type person. He had been in the white horse and was leaving and went out and got in his vehicle. He said that he looked across the parking lot, and I don't know if you've ever been to the white horse and know where the white horse is. The parking lot kind of runs east and west there. He went to his vehicle, got in his vehicle, was leaving, getting to pull through, and he saw somebody in the parking lot with the hood up on their vehicle. Him being the type of person he is, he drives over and says, Hey, you need some help?
He said this kid, he called him a kid, he said this kid is in the truck and had salt on it, trying to crank it until he had killed the battery. Battery was clicking at this point. He said the guy was, yeah, my truck's torn up. I need to jump. Somebody jump me off. My brother said, well, I got jumper cables. I'll jump you off. So he pulled the nose of the vehicle up and got out and raised his hood. Said, well, the guy got out of his vehicle and was walking around it. He could notice him stumbling real bad, kind of wobbling.
He was like, okay. So the guy comes around and they raise their hoods, and my brother's making small talk with him. The guy's not really like focusing on him, you know, like okay or making a connection. Obviously, he was impaired in some way. My brother said, okay, you hook your jumper cables up, and I'll hook mine up. So it was a fair deal. It's kind of like what people do.
Well, the guy couldn't get, for some reason, seemed like he couldn't get either his hand on the jumper cable or couldn't squeeze the jumper cable or get it on the jumper, on the post, on the battery. The thought that went through my brother's head was that this guy is messed up and does not need to be driving because the guy was bumbling around, stumbling around. He just didn't know what condition the guy was in. I've told you he was my brother. Now, I've said a relative earlier, but it was my brother.
Anyway, the guy gets in. He tells him, go ahead and get into your vehicle and try cranking. My brother purposely took his jumper cable off where it wouldn't crank because he didn't want this guy getting in the road. He said, if I jump this guy off in this vehicle in this condition he's in and he goes out and kills somebody, I helped.
The guy gets in, click, click, click, click, click, click. Nothing happens. Long story short, he tells the guy, he says, I'll tell you what, your vehicle's not running, he said. You live around here?
He said he mumbled something and my brother said, well, is there somewhere I can take you or you can come back and get your vehicle tomorrow or some other time? The guy said, yeah, you could carry me. My brother didn't remember the names or whoever this was or where he was supposed to be taking him. My brother said, fine, lock your vehicle up, make sure you got everything and I'll carry you there. The kid gets in the vehicle with him. When they're pulling out of the parking lot, my brother was making small talk with him.
They talk about football. That's how I made it relevant to how I remembered when it was.
Because my brother, in telling this story, he and I had been talking about football. This was in 2005. The best I can nail it down during the holidays when he and I had this conversation was because he related it to Florida beating Georgia. He said, oh yeah, let me tell you about this kid I met that was a Bulldog fan. Anyways, part of that was the kid was a Bulldog fan and because Florida had beaten Georgia, he was cussing and carrying on because Florida had beat Georgia.
In going, my brother carried this guy. Every once in a while, he would just keep silent and he'd drop out. His head would drop. My brother, he said he was sleepy or totaled out drunk or high as a kite. Something got him impaired. My brother took this opportunity in pulling over to give him parting words of wisdom of saying, you don't need to be getting drunk. You don't need to be out on the road. Something bad could happen.
So the kid looked up at him and said, yeah, when I get tore up, I pass out. And one time he said, someone told me I killed someone. He didn't say I passed out and I killed somebody. He said, someone told me that I killed someone.
Now relating that to be any person in particular that would have ever been in the parking lot at the White Horse Saloon, it could have been one of 3,000 people. So no way of knowing and pinning it down, I may be pulling a conclusion out of thin air there because my brother's not here to retell it or verify it or clarify it or anything. I even went so far to ask a friend that played there in the band. I said, did my brother ever tell you the story about the kid in the parking lot?
He said, maybe he did. I can't really remember. Gosh, it's been 11 years ago, you know. It's been 11 years. My brother mentioned it two or three times. Probably three times in the years after that, he and I would be sitting around talking. He would retell it. But he said that kind of giving the guy some parting words of wisdom, saying, you don't need to be out drinking. You don't need to be out at night driving drunk. You need to get somebody else to drive you drunk.
That's when the guy said, "Yes, when I get drunk, I pass out." And I don't remember, I don't remember what I did. He didn't say, "I passed out and I killed somebody." He said, "Someone told me that I killed someone." I asked him where his brother dropped the man off that night. There at the corner of Taylor's. It was right there where Taylor's is. Every story has an ending.
Sometimes they're puzzling or even unsatisfying. But in real life, you can't control the narrative. Sometimes you only get bits and pieces of the truth. But in my story, I hope that one day we get the whole truth.
Hello? Hey, Payne. Dr. Godwin here. Hey, what's up, man? You know, I've been thinking. We did some really good work on Tara's case. You know...
There's another case I had in mind. I've been looking to it for years. Maybe you and I should take a look into it. This episode was mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. To improve the quality of your podcast or to start a podcast of your own, visit ResonateRecordings.com and get your first episode produced for free.
Up and Vanished is recorded at Industrious Atlanta, Ponce City Market. Visit industriousoffice.com slash vanished for $250 off your first month's office rent. The Up and Vanished theme song is called Ophelia, performed by Ezra Rose. Up and Vanished is produced and edited by me, Payne Lindsey, and executive produced by myself and Donald Albright. Additional production by Mason Lindsey and Meredith Steadman.
Special thanks to Dr. Maurice Godwin and to all the Up and Vanished contributors, including Dusty Vassie, Phillip Holloway, Ashley Merchant, Colin Miller, Mayor Matt Seal, Rob Ricotta, the people of Osceola and Irwin County, and of course, my grandma.
And a very special thanks to all of you, the listeners, for taking this journey with us and not just listening, but participating. We'll be back this Thursday for our final Q&A episode. So if you have any questions, give us a call at 770-545-6411. Or you can send a tweet. Our handle is at UpAndVanished. Use the hashtag UAVQ&A. And don't forget, UpAndVanished is going to have a live tour soon. And we're coming to a city near you.
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