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Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. Do-dun-dun-da-dun-dun-da-dun-dun Do-dun-dun-da-dun-dun-da-dun
Recently, I've spent hours on the phone with John Gerton. And what you're about to hear is what he says is the truth. The man at the center of Florence Okpialik's disappearance. No more waiting. You're going to get to hear him right now. Unfiltered, his own words. This isn't an interview. It's a real phone call. A long, winding conversation between me and John.
And what he tells me, it's strange, it's messy, and it might change everything. This is the truth, according to John. I didn't have a lot of choice because I had nowhere to go when things started going downhill here. Because prior to just coming here...
Oh, man. Yeah.
which was the result of the rumors going around. There were gentlemen on the boats that were going around calling me serial killer, and I yelled at them, and I was removed of duty for violating a voicing policy because I yelled at them. Now, are you the same guy I met?
Yes, yes. I'm the guy you met in the bar, remember? What do you mean? Which part?
The part where the girl accused the rescue diver and said there was a barrel under the house that was just something somebody told me. I never verified any of that. And so I was just relaying what I was told, you know, and I tell anybody to listen to me, my story. And like, you know, it was pretty easy to get me to talk about it because, you
I want everybody to know. You know, and the FBI, they were there for three and a half weeks and did a full investigation. And they even cleared me and, you know, cleared me. And they said no foul play even. So I don't know. I kind of stay out of it, you know, and...
It got pretty bad around here. I got hit by a car. I've been threatened multiple times. I've been assaulted. It got pretty bad. And the police here, I read stuff from fake profiles on Facebook. So what are people saying? They've actually changed it now. Apparently, I got robbed by a girl.
I'm from McDonald's and she assaulted me and I pressed charges. And so she had her friends online and now there's two women supposedly. Yeah. And they just made up. And the police here conducted an investigation because they were receiving complaints because somebody posted the podcast online.
on Ketchikan Community Cycle, which is a community Facebook thing. And the only reason I even found out about it was because fellow employees on the ferry, my chief steward called me and personal friends of mine too at work. They said, hey, dude. And I listened to about 10, 15 minutes of it as I kind of started crying. I couldn't listen to it anymore.
And now apparently I'm a child molester too and a rapist. I molest children now too. And then at one point, because Ketchikan has completely taken this and just, they actually forged Ketchikan murder warrant documents and registered sex offending paperwork and sent it to my wife in the Philippines. I had to take her into the DA's office in the Philippines.
Wait, so who forged these documents? Because that's a crime in itself, isn't it? Yeah.
There's no dates. The profiles only existed for a month. And there's no photo. You know, it's obvious. And see, they never came to me when they received the complaints because people were calling them and complaining to them that I'm here and they want to know what they're doing about it.
So when I went in with the actual, I mean, literally received death threats. And they said, well, we conducted our own investigation a couple weeks ago, and law enforcement doesn't even know who you are up there or anything about the case because...
The FBI, okay. Nome PD was, they even tried to talk to him. They refused to talk to me, right? They impounded a car that I'd rented for my, and I drove them out to go fishing. But any one of my friends, they were going in their homes in certain search warrants. I tried to talk to them, you know, to help. So finally the FBI came in.
with a group of about five investigators out of Anchorage. And they were there approximately, I believe, about three weeks. I fully cooperated. They're the only ones that ever interviewed me or come talk to me. You know, and I told them everything I did. And the only thing, they kept asking me about a black truck because I don't know if you know the location, the beach where I was at.
It's about a quarter mile away from the paved road. And up on that paved road is the port, and there's a camera that overlooks the port. Yeah. Okay. They said that they had a picture of a black truck with a female profile getting into it about the time when I said, you know, she left.
Okay? And that's all I know, because they just were asking me, do you know anybody in a black truck? No. Now...
About a year earlier, somebody loaned me a blue pickup that said Tanya on the back with two and a half foot letters. So, I mean, highly identifiable. And that was a cab company I was working at. And I got a four-wheeler. And that's what I used for transportation, a four-wheeler with no dust. And you could literally hear me coming. And the FBI actually had me started up for them.
They had to cover their ears. And they brought in cadaver dogs and everything. And I gave them permission to go into my tent. I had a huge cabin tent because people were allowed to just show up. I befriended quite a few female friends. I used to teach women self-defense and empowerment courses, right? And teach them they don't have to be a victim.
The fact is, me being forced to stay here and not be able to run away, I have had to, uh, every friend that I talk to when I first meet them, I explain to them my situation and I want them to be fully informed that before, you know, you want to hang out with me, that there is going to be a
rumor and people are going to come up to you and say, why are you hanging out with him? Do you know this, this, and this? So what do you tell them that that situation is? I tell them everything. Can you tell me what... I'm just curious. I said, I was in North Alaska. I gave a girl a ride and a safe place to stay. And in the morning I heard her leave. I tell them about her boyfriend. I tell them everything. Her boyfriend? And I tell them
So, Florence was in your tent, that's okay. Florence was in your tent, but here, but let me finish.
But the next morning, Florence is missing, but you have her things. Why is that? Why is that? Because, okay, because her boyfriend told me he had took her to the hospital, admitted her for treatment. They put her on the drugs that don't let you allow to drink. Well, she had went out and went drinking. That night, she became extremely unstable psychologically.
was talking about hurting herself. There was about three camps right there where I was. And she wanted cigarettes so bad, she went next door. Now, there was a guy from Spain or something like that. He'd been there every year, too. He knocked his tent down, got upset because he didn't smoke. I don't smoke.
She couldn't find a cigarette, and I finally got her to calm down. How did you get her to calm down? I was just talking to her and tell her it's going to be okay. Right. You know, I said, you know, because she was talking about not wanting to live and everything like that. Uh-huh. And I did not...
Yeah. Yeah.
It was 18 by 24. So, and I had a cot in one corner. I had a wood stove in there to cook on. And I had a solar panel and a 12-volt refrigerator. So I had a little thing. And I would set up pallets, you know, not pallet pallets, but that's what we call it. Sleeping. Yeah, just little places to sleep. And I had two or three because
friends were always welcome to stop by. As a matter of fact, that night, I was expecting two friends to stop by, a boyfriend and girlfriend, very close friends, because they like to come out and hang out, meet at the bonfire, and, you know, so everybody was always welcome, you know, and just be respectful. Who are these friends that you're talking about? Uh...
She moved back to the island. The island that's right out from the ocean. I believe from... I mean the guy. Oh. Well, it was... I was mainly friends with her.
Okay, so let's go back to the basics here. Yeah. So Florence was in your tent and then when is the last time that you saw her?
Okay. I saw her when she went to sleep. Okay. Now, daylight, you can tell in the tent it's daylight, and I'm laying there half awake, half asleep, and I hear her get up. I hear her unzip the tent because it's an eight-foot-tall zipper. She unzips it.
And she'd sit down, and I figured she just went outside for a walk or to go take a pee somewhere. You know, because that's what the heroes do out there is they go behind the hill. So in about a half hour... What time was that at about? Just guess. Okay, I actually looked at my phone to see what time it was. That was 7.30. I get up around 8.15, 8.20, and I'm looking around.
And she's not there. So I go outside and I walk and I look up and I look down the beach because it's about...
a quarter of a mile walk to the road and it is a direct sight line and you could if somebody was walking i would at least see their silhouette and uh i don't see her anywhere so i'm like huh that's weird but it's not that weird out there because people have been drinking and everything sometimes they just
Leave where though? Why could you not see her? It's a 15-20 minute walk to the road and from the road it's another 10 minute walk to downtown. Back to when you're in the tent and she's asleep. Did you actually see her with your own eyes leave? No. I heard her use the zipper. How do you know it was her? Because she was the only one there with me.
But you looked at your phone. Why didn't you look up to see her? Because when I looked at my phone, she'd already zipped it down and was outside. And I just looked at it and I go, man, it's still early. I'm going to lay here a while. Right. Because I wasn't facing the doorway. I was facing the wall because I sleep on my side. I was too lazy to roll. Look, because I knew who it was.
Okay, so either way, you realize at some point, it looks like Florence left and she zipped the tent back up, right? Yeah. Did she leave anything behind or what? Yeah, yeah. Later on that day, I didn't even realize it then, but I'm folding the bedding over that I made for her and...
underneath it was her phone and her shoes. So I'm like, oh, well, she'll be back for these as soon as she realizes it. So when did you realize that? Like, not in the morning? What? No, I didn't find them right away. So when did you find them that next day? Well, okay, it was later on that afternoon. I was picking stuff up. You weren't curious to see, like,
What she left behind if she just dipped out on you? No, because I didn't know she left anything behind. Right. You know, because to me, I put my shoes on and I put my phone in my pocket and then I leave. But why didn't she do that? That's so weird. But because she was under the drugs the hospital gave her that you're not supposed to drink on. So clearly, I don't think psychologically...
And, see, I kind of have my own theory that a lot of people aren't talking about. What's your theory? I really don't want to think this happened, but up there, especially in Alaska with the abduction issues, there is a possibility, and I...
What do you mean? Yeah.
Mm-hmm. And I don't, you know, I mean, I'm afraid that it is, but I don't, I pray it's not, but then the other alternative is something else. Well, somebody got her.
And who... Okay, there's two options. And who could that have been? I don't know. And like I said... Well, it had to be someone close to your tent on the beach, so give me your best guess or, you know, help me. The guy next to me, he goes to church and he's a nice guy. You go to church too? Yeah, but... And then the other... There was a pallet house built right next to his tent. It was a pallet and...
And it was a guy and a woman, you know, and I did not know them very well. But I talked to the Latino guy a lot, you know, because he was gold mining stuff too. And we got along and, you know, we were kind of doing the same thing.
You know, and I don't want to think that because, you know... Well, right now we have to think everything because the bottom line is... There's basically two options. Yes, correct. That or the other, you know, and because they kept asking me about a black truck, but it wasn't conclusive because...
As much as they can tell me it was a female figure, there was nothing that they could tell me that it was even...
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I took no drugs and I took no drinking. Oh wait, no, I was smoking some dabs. Marijuana. That was my thing. Now occasionally, and after that,
I relapsed a little bit on the methamphetamines because of depression. Around what time period? About three to four weeks after the flu incident because of my depression. Why were you so depressed? Because people were saying that I did something and I didn't. Why do you think they were saying that? Because technically I was...
The last person anyone knows that saw her. Well, then who do you think saw her after you? I have no idea. Don't you think that if you could figure that part out, then you'll be cleared forever? But here's the thing. You want to hear something really weird? And this is what I thought about later after Danny Girl called me in Oregon. What is it? Paul was Paul was coming out and visiting me.
Because I went in and I went in town once, twice, and purchased some methamphetamines from him. And then he was making trips out there to check on me. And he would bring me out and he was asking me questions and he would give me a little bit and I would talk to him because I was depressed. And then I'm like, I barely know this guy.
And I didn't socialize with him. I've only met him and purchased from him twice. And why is he coming out to visit me? I thought he was just trying to be a friend. Well, then Danny girl tells me this stuff. And I'm like...
Because he was asking me questions. He'd get me high. Like what kind of questions? Like what? What do you remember about that night with Flo and anything else? Is anybody saying anything? Why would he ask that? I don't know. But then after I make it to Oregon, Danny Girl tells me that
He was best friends with the diver guy. She had the theory about. And the reason she come up with the barrel theory is because she was working on the diver guy's house reconstruction underneath it, restacking the piers. Because that's what she did was construction work. And she showed up one day. And the way she explained it was right after Flo's disappearance. And.
And he would no longer allow her under the house to do any work and stop the job completely. And she knows, I think, that, you know, he did something and put her, she's buried under the house. That was her story.
Secondly, I don't care about the drugs, man. I don't give a shit. No, no, no. And I'm honest about buying them. But I do have a question for you. I found the picture from the FBI of the truck that you're talking about, and I texted it to you. Can you look at it and tell me if you recognize it? This is interesting. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not meaning to get excited. It's just, you know, it's been so long, and...
Okay, um, pain image. Cool, cool, cool. No, no, um, because I am just as much as I really, really, really wish it wasn't an outcome like that. Um, but still, I want to know. Oh, wow. Okay, okay, okay. I don't know. But like I said, it has weird racks on the back. You know, because I never saw the picture. They never showed me a picture. It's a flatbed. Maybe they did. Yeah, yeah.
And like I said, I described this, and somebody told me it was a... You described it to who? Well, two or three of my friends in town, to see if they knew who he was, because if I could find out some information, I'd go to the FBI, because the FBI asked me. Have you seen this picture before yet, or no? It is a possibility that the FBI showed me.
Because it is looking familiar now, the picture, not the truck, but the picture. You know, and it would make sense that the FBI would have this and show it to me. So probably, yes, they showed me. Because I was...
Do you still want them to know the truth? But who did? No, but I'm asking you, but who did?
I don't know because I had no involvement. It doesn't matter if you weren't involved. You're saying that you didn't do it, but you're hinting that you know who may have done it. Well, I was told by another friend that she was drinking with a guy in that truck and she described him to me as a young white male, mid to late 20s.
Who is it? Who told you that? So...
the outcome of anything, you know, a butterfly effect. One small thing can change everything. If I had got up and walked outside and made sure she was okay, maybe whatever, whatever would have changed to, you know, let's take you to town. Let's get you some cigarettes. Are you hungry? Where's home? Can I drop you off? Just anything that is nothing to me.
To me, no effort, just a small change could have had a drastic impact. So what do you think happened when she left the tent? Because you have to have thought about this for years. I would think a million possibilities. Where have you landed? Without any other further proof of anything, I can only think that she went in the ocean.
Why would she do that? Because the night before, she was talking about, after I got her to come in, she was talking about how her life was so horrible and how she's such a burden on everybody and that she wishes that she wasn't around anymore. And what did you say to that? I told her, I said, look, this is just how it looks to you right now at this moment.
You know, life gets better. But her life didn't. No, no, it didn't. Because I was too lazy to care about her. I just assumed she was going to be okay. Are you still too lazy to care? No, because everything that I believe in, if I hadn't been too lazy...
What do you think that they would be? How would they be different? Why didn't you take her to get help that night?
because it was late. It wasn't that long when you picked her up from the Nugget. No, no, no, but I didn't realize that she was in that type of condition until later on. Well, you did, though. You said that whenever you talked to her, she didn't seem right, and she was not able to complete sentences. Yeah, and I figured just resting and hanging out would be fine. Do you see how somebody, not me, but somebody else could look like that as predatory behavior? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but... We're sitting here talking today all these years later because there's not enough evidence to point somewhere definitively yet, right? But when I hear you say that after all these years, you feel like she walked into the ocean, here's my problem with that, John, is that there is the least amount of evidence to support that. Yeah. So...
Let's just go ahead and check that off the list and start with the other possibilities. The other possibility is even harder to think about.
But
But that's what we're facing, John. Yeah. That's what her family's facing. I can't really think about that. You know, and I swear to God, I wished I could find out because she wasn't a bad person. She was just in a bad place. And she hadn't done anything to deserve anything done to her.
We get three hours of sunlight during the day between noon and like three or four. But at night, even though it's dark, there's so much freaking snow, everything's lit up from the snow. Land in the midnight sun, man. I get on my wheeler and I'm going down the road, heading out of... Okay. The nugget. The last hotel on the left
going out of town towards my camp. Flo was standing out there on the corner right about in front of that bar. I met her and at the last bar together in the town on the same side of the street. Then I pulled up and I said, hey, what you doing? Nothing. Where's Betsy? Oh, she went home. All right. What are you doing? Nothing, she says. I'm like, well, I got some friends coming out with a bottle later.
You saw her by herself and you gave her an invitation? Yes, yes. What was her demeanor like? It was inebriated, but she wasn't staggering. She wasn't, you know...
But she wasn't overly conversative either. She just said, yeah. How did she seem to you? She was functional, but... What does functional mean?
But she seemed pretty inebriated.
Tell me, why was it that you thought it was a good idea to bring her to your tent if she was in that condition? Put us in a box.
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If I was involved in an accident or anything, I would have already come forward. I would admit to it. I would rather meet you face to face so you can look into my eye. I would be willing to go back to known with you. For her, bro, it's not right. And I don't know what to do. I don't know how to help because this is where I'm at.
You know, this in my mind, you know, I know I didn't do anything, but I'm the only one that can really help. It'll help our memories or whatever, but I don't care about me anymore.
This has been going on my life for so long now. And I want, you know, I mean, I'm not afraid of being in trouble because I know what I did or didn't do. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I'm saying, what happened, happened. And after that, I don't know. Up to that point.
After she shut that zipper, I have no idea because I wasn't there. I know I didn't do anything wrong to her. So, to be honest, I didn't do anything other than not caring enough to get up the next morning when she left to her armor, to be honest. That's it.
Like I said the night before, she was going through a thing and she went extremely erratic, started destroying other people's property. And like I said, I never touched her. Never tried to get her to do anything inappropriate. That was the furthest from my mind.
I don't...
I wasn't over there when she was doing what she was doing to the people. I was at my tent. And I went out there and I got her to come back. I remember finally talking her down, getting her to sleep, and I went to sleep. Well, the only person that she did anything to be angry was my neighbor. I went to sleep thinking everything was okay.
Then I heard you zip her in the morning, and then I'm like, okay, she must have went home. And where do you think she went? I have no idea, because I wasn't with her. You were with her right before she went to wherever she went next. So yes, you were. Yes, but after that, I have no idea. And I'll take polygraph, voice stress analysis, whatever they want. And I mean, I do voice stress analysis, polygraph,
I mean, seriously, because I'm being straight, bro. I know that that's where mine ends, you know what I mean? You know? And it's really hard for me when people think that about me or if there's even a possibility because it's not, you know. And...
And it would give something to even the people listening. They're like, wow, you know, you know, you know, because right now there's too much speculation. There's too many questions. At least this would answer some. And, you know, then you can look and say, wow, John, you can set up.
As of now, this is John's story. Every twist, every dodge, every moment he claims as his truth.
And after all that, John agreed to something very big, something that surprised me. He wants to take a polygraph test, live, no editing, no excuses. And so we're going to do it. This Sunday, May 18th at 8 p.m. Eastern time, we're going to go live. John Gurdon gets asked the hard questions by a real polygrapher in the most professional setting that we can create. You'll get to hear it all for yourself in real time.
No places to hide. So, this Sunday, May 18th at 8 p.m. Eastern Time, follow Up and Vanished on Instagram. We'll be going live on the Up and Vanished Instagram, which is just at Up and Vanished. This is something we've never done before. And honestly, I have no idea how this plays out. But if you're as curious as I am, tune in. Sunday, May 18th, 8 p.m. Eastern, Instagram Live at Up and Vanished. See you Sunday.
Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsey. The show is written by Payne Lindsey with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington.
Supervising Producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional Production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik-Glen, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original Music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mix and Mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team.
Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.
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