Dean Heller on Gas Prices, Inflation, and Education
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Lucky Boy gets to travel all over the planet and have all sorts of fun while we're stuck here doing the work. In studio with me today, the irrepressible Kylie Kipper, our producer. She does a fantastic job in the booth. Jeremy, the magician. Jamie Kleschuk, who hates being in front of the microphone, has also been dragged in front of one along with Slacker Will. So we have a full studio, but we have an even better guest list for you today.

First up, former U.S. Senator Dean Heller. He is running for governor in Nevada now. He was sworn into the United States Senate in 2011. Prior to that, he was a representative for Nevada's 2nd Congressional District, also served as Nevada's Secretary of State and in the Nevada State Assembly. Senator Heller, thank you and welcome to the program.

Thank you very much. It's good to talk to you and your listeners. Well, I know folks in Florida and Arizona are curious because we know Nevada is a bellwether, right? No doubt. I think that's accurate, yes. A lot of states are going to go. And so what you're seeing there on the campaign trail right now is obviously really, really important. But also, and I want to kind of throw this out there,

You've served in the U.S. Senate, obviously a critically important post. But as we saw during the pandemic for the last couple of years, these governorships may be even more important for the people in their states. And by the way, I agree with that. I do agree with that. I think jobs and responsibilities, especially posts for elected officials that are closer to the people. And you wonder why these school boards are becoming more and more important every single day. It's for the same reason.

You know, they actually affect people's lives every day. You go back in Washington, D.C., and that's 2,000 miles away from, you know, my base, and you're out there for, you know, a week, a couple of weeks, and then you come back and you have conversations. Boy, governors are in the mix every day. Mayors are in the mix every single day. I just think they're much closer to the voter and, frankly, are much better educated on the issues that are important to them.

Well, and I think, Senator, one of the things that, frankly, the left has done in recent years, obviously there's the old saying that all politics is local. But what they have done is try to make all politics national. OK. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's some...

real actuality behind that particular comment. Things are changing dramatically. You're seeing that every single day as you go through politics. In other words, yeah, a governor's race, you want to make the governor's race about Nevada, and the left wants to make it about Washington, D.C. You want to make your mayor's race about your city, the left wants to make it about Washington, D.C. So,

And so those issues play more and more. And I'm seeing that in this race. There's no doubt I'm seeing that in this race. But yeah, I think that's a true statement. And we got to get back to local politics. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's at the local level, like you said, where this is going to affect people every day much more significantly, frankly, than a lot of what's happening in Washington. And people in Nevada, Arizona, Florida, we're all kind of experiencing a lot of the same things. You've got rising crime, right? Yeah.

Correct, correct. Well, think about this. I think the two most important issues right now as I'm talking to you on the phone is gasoline prices, food prices, and whether or not you can feed your infants.

Yes. Those are the issues that people are talking about today. They're not talking about that back in Washington, D.C. You know, that is a recession-proof zone, Washington, D.C. You come out to Nevada, Florida, Arizona, they're talking about whether or not they can drive down the road with the gasoline prices we have today, whether or not they can afford their

food and whether or not they can feed their infants. Those are the issues. And Republicans need to be talking about this or they'll make no inroads with the voters during this cycle. And one of the unfortunate secrets is that your state of Nevada, like Arizona, has seen higher inflation, as I understand it, than a lot of the rest of the country. So these issues are... Yeah, yeah. Our gasoline prices are third highest in the nation.

Third highest in the nation here in Nevada. And, you know, you hear national average, I don't know, 450 or whatever. We're at 550. I'm looking at these marquees in Reno and Las Vegas, and we're well above $5 a gallon. And

I think this is at $6 a gallon midsummer, $7 a gallon by the end of the summer. We get into the November election. If it's at $7 a gallon, the left is in trouble. This is their making. They're doing this on purpose. They're going to pay a price for this. At $6 a gallon, which you're approaching in Arizona, just crossed the $5 a gallon mark, you're looking at $90 to fill up a small car tank.

That's right. That's right. I mean, my wife loves her Honda Pilot. She loves her Honda Pilot. $90 to fill it out. I happen to have an F-450 with two gas tanks. It cost me $300 to fill up my Ford truck. Oh, my goodness. $300. That is just... By the way, it sits at home a lot now.

Yeah, I bet it does. I drive the Pilot, yeah, more than I drive that truck. I mean, the version of alternative fuel they're pushing us into looks a lot like the Flintstones at this point. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Like I said, this is all self-inflicted. This is all done on purpose. This is all about the Green New Deal. And the purpose is to try to force everybody to buy electric vehicles.

This is where we are, and that's why this isn't going to change. If you think there's going to be any relief, and by the way, as a candidate for governor, I want us to spend the gasoline tax here in Nevada.

As long as gasoline tax is higher than $4 a gallon, all gasoline taxes need to be suspended. There needs to be some relief coming to these states, and they're certainly not going to get it from Washington, D.C. No, they're not. I mean, everything Washington is doing seems designed to continue to drive up these prices, just like you said. So in that vein, I got to ask you, Governor, now,

you've done a little car racing in the past. I have. Can you still afford to do that? Are you still hopping in the race car from time to time? Well, stop and think about it. I used to race alcohol-driven modified. So that was twice the cost. We were paying $10 a gallon for alcohol in these alcohol-driven modified, whether it was dirt or asphalt. So this was...

Five years ago, it was $10 a gallon. I would hate to be in that class today. They're probably talking $20, $25 a gallon to run a car in circles. So, yeah, I've backed off. Let me assure you, it's a young man's game. You go into a corner that has 120 miles an hour.

And if you're not thinking about the corners, if you're thinking about your IRA, your 401K, how's it doing with this market, you're not going to make that corner. So it is a young man game that has somebody that has a lot left riding on the line. Yeah, I have a friend who was taking his Camaro around the track a couple of weeks ago, and I think he was thinking a little bit about that IRA and 401K. He ended up hitting the curb in the middle of the race blowing all his airbags.

Oh, it's so ended up. It's an expensive sport, and I'm pretty much backed out now. Okay. You know, I mean, we're joking about this, but the effect of gasoline prices...

It affects everything. I mean, that's underlying. This is serious. The average Nevadan right now is going to pay $3,500 more this year just on gasoline and food, $3,500. And it's estimated next year they'll pay an additional $5,500 more next year than they will last year.

You know, there's a lot of people that I talk to when I'm giving speeches and everything that can absorb this, absorb the, you know, the 3,200, 3,500, may be able to absorb next year's 5,500. But I tell them, go outside in the streets and go talk to everybody. Most cannot. They cannot absorb this. And this is what Republicans should be talking about.

This inflation, this recession that's coming, the fact that these markets are tanking the way they are, this doesn't affect just the wealthy. It affects anybody who has a pension plan, anybody who has a 401k, anybody who's trying to save for their retirement.

This is affecting everybody. And the left and their policies are a disaster right now. You served in Washington, so I have to ask you this question. Even if we take back the House and the Senate, as I believe we will in this coming election, are we going to be able to do much about this? Because so much of what happens in Washington is now coming under the guise

in premature, if you will, of executive orders. You have an administration just out of control. Correct. I'm a big believer that it doesn't take much to change it. You look at what President Trump was able to achieve in four years and take a look at the economy we had at the time. You know, I was one of the authors of the Tax Cut and Jobs Act.

That spurred so much economic growth here in this country in a very short period of time. And I believe we can do that again. All it takes is the right leadership. I don't know if Donald Trump's going to run for president again. Personally, I'm one who thinks that he should. I know there's a lot of variables in him making that decision. But I'm telling you right now that

90% of the people I talk to, and my circles are pretty big, they would rather take a couple of bad tweets right now if we can get back to the policies that we used to have. A good leader, I believe, can change an economy, a country, within a year to two years. Yes.

That's all it takes. Energy independence and baby formula on the shelves in exchange for a couple of bad tweets sounds like a pretty solid deal right now. Absolutely. I agree with that. I don't think we'd have a war in Ukraine right now. We wouldn't have this grain problem we have. We wouldn't have the problem of trying to get these ships off the –

The supply chain problems we have today would not have occurred under President Trump or, for that matter, any Republican presidency. They would have solved this problem by now, and they just don't want to solve it in Washington, D.C. I don't understand the left and what they're trying to achieve. Every decision they're making is just making everything worse.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, watching this, it's hard to not think that they have a plan to tear this country apart because you look at what they're doing on the local level with our schools. You look at what they're doing with law enforcement. And then you look on the national level with inflation, with monetary policy, with oil, all these things. I mean, you could not devise a better plan to destroy a country than what they are doing right now.

Well, you know, we're not creating jobs. The economy is in terrible shape. We have high inflation. A recession is coming. The stock market's crashing. We have schools here in the state of Nevada where we have this governor that half the time that he has been governor, he's locked children out of their school. And, of course, the results are second graders who can't read, third graders who can't write, fourth graders who can't do arithmetic, period.

And then we have very dangerous neighborhoods. We have a sheriff in southern Nevada, and he turned Clark County into a sanctuary city. And I tell people, you want to live in a dangerous neighborhood, live in a sanctuary city, and that's where Las Vegas is today.

And the result of that, of course, is homicides are up 50 percent. Violent crimes are up to 45 percent. This is all because one sheriff decided to kick ice out of Metro and start practicing catch and release. Here we are. Here we are. This is the result of that. Absolutely. We have just about 30 seconds before we go to break. But we're coming right back with Senator former Senator Dean Heller, now gubernatorial candidate in Nevada, breaking battlegrounds. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio again this week. I am going to get the irrepressible Kylie Kipper. Yeah, I'm sitting here. Yeah, yeah. You were silent that entire segment. We're going to have to get you into this. I had some thoughts rolling and then, you know, sometimes. All right. Well, speak up. Yeah, we will. Speak up. All right. On the line with us right now, former U.S. Senator Dean Heller running for governor in the state of Nevada. All right.

Senator, when you're looking at what's going on with our schools right now, and as we close the last segment, you were talking about how the current governor has allowed schools to be closed half the time for the last two years. The impact this is having on children, but particularly on poor kids, on minorities, is extraordinary. We are harming them for life. One, I still don't understand how anyone could have allowed this to happen. But two, what are you going to do when you get in there?

Well, first of all, there's a couple of messages in what you're saying, Sam. And, Kylie, feel free to jump into this thing. You're asking me some tough questions. But here's the problem. We have a school district down in Las Vegas. It's the fifth largest school district in America. They're just ending their school year. This school year alone, they have reported over 5,000 incidences of violent crime.

Just in one school district, over 5,000 incidents. So you're talking anywhere from bullying to sexual harassment to actually students raping teachers in this school district. Oh, my God. And imagine if you're a single mother and you have two children and you're thinking about dropping them off at school today. I mean, how confident are you today that that child will be safe?

And that's part of the problem. Clearly, if you don't have a safe environment, it's very, very difficult to teach a child reading, writing, and arithmetic. I had a 17-year-old here in Reno come up to me and I asked him how school was going. This was at the beginning of this school year. He says, you tell me, he says, I have been in high school for two years. This is at the beginning. So he's going into his junior year. He says, I've only been in the classroom for one semester.

Oh, man. He told me how my education's going. Oh, that's... And he was very frustrated. What are my scores going to look like? What college am I going to be able to get to if I'm locked out of my school three-quarters of the time? Well, and the other things you're missing out on, just being with your peers and being able to participate in after-school activities and sports and all these other things...

Yeah, yeah. Hey, Sam, here's a kicker. Here's a kicker, Sam. My daughter has a, my granddaughter, who's in fourth grade, fourth grade. So this is the Washoe County School District. My daughter receives a letter, every fourth grade parent in that school district received a letter from the school district asking them to buy those flashcards, multiplication flashcards that we all remember when we were in school. Mm-hmm.

And they ask the parents to teach their children multiplication. Because in fourth grade, you're supposed to learn division. But if you don't learn multiplication in third grade, you can't teach a child division. So they're now asking the parents to teach their children multiplication so that while their daughter or son is in fourth grade, they can teach them division. That's how far back and backwards this whole process is right now.

Well, and Democrats who have championed these shutdowns have always said that they're also the champions of the little guy and the person who wants to better their life.

Well, a lot of people out there might not even have the skills to teach their kids multiplication or division. Right, right, right. Or the time, or the time. Yeah. I mean, you're struggling with inflation and recession and gas prices, trying to find baby formula, all of that. Oh, by the way, you've got to teach your child how to do multiplication.

Wow. Yeah, a parent should be involved in their child's education, no doubt. Yeah, absolutely. But having said that, I do believe that there is some responsibility of the school district because you are paying taxes for them to teach your children.

And this has become very, very problematic. So you said, so what are the solutions? First solution is never close the schools down. Never, ever close the schools down. Absolutely right. Find the solutions necessary. But these mandates, these mask mandates, these vaccine mandates, all of this was wrongheaded here in the state of Nevada. We had a governor that did everything California told them to do.

Everything. Shut the churches down. Shut the schools down. By the way, keep the abortion clinics open. Right. Because I guess there's science in there somewhere. Well, and you mentioned California. I just want to throw in one thing that maybe a lot of our readers don't realize. The money that has turned Nevada from, you know, solid reddish to bluish has come from California. It's not Nevada money.

Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. But more to my point, Nevada did everything California told them to do. And then after we did everything California told us to do, our mortality rate from COVID is higher than Texas that did none of these things. Kept their schools open, kept their businesses open, kept their churches open. The mortality rate in Nevada was higher than Texas.

It's amazing because, I mean, I think what we've learned is that they did everything wrong. The experts kind of got everything wrong throughout COVID about the only good advice they had was if you're in the vulnerable populations, you should take steps to protect yourself. But they didn't isolate that. Instead, they punished our children. Correct. They punished families. They really have screwed everything up. Pardon me, but that's what's happened. Yeah.

Yeah, so there's a price to pay and we're paying it now. So as I said, Sam, don't shut the schools down. Never do that again. That was dead wrong to do that. But the second thing is, as we were talking about that Las Vegas school district, you've got to break it up.

Yes. You got to break that school district into four or five different districts. How big is it? I don't know the exact number, but I think if you took four or five, in other words, this small town called Mesquite, they ought to have their own school district. Boulder City, you're probably familiar with that. Mm-hmm.

They ought to have their own school district. North Las Vegas ought to have theirs. But break this into four or five different districts so that, frankly, it's manageable. And then allow for school choice. Allow for vouchers. Allow parents to make decisions as to which one of those school districts that their children can attend. You start adding competition to this process. Absolutely. And you can make a real difference. You can make a real difference. We've done that in Arizona and Florida.

Well, Senator, I kind of have some thoughts on this is because here in Arizona, Governor Ducey gave a 20 percent pay increase to teachers, but they're not seeing it because of the people that are elected to our school boards, which the Democrats do an extremely good job at electing people in these lower offices and then going all the way up where I think Republicans kind of lack in that area of putting these good people in there. So how can we as a group and as Republicans do a better job at that?

Well, here's the upside to that, Kaylee. Here's the upside here in the state of Nevada. And that is that every school board competitive or open school board election in the state of Nevada now has a Republican in it. For the first time in the history of the state of Nevada, every school board in the state of Nevada now has a Republican candidate.

That's fantastic. Democrats have controlled this process and have been able to change it and manipulate it, manipulate parents, manipulate children. Senator, I'm sorry to cut you off. We have just about 30 seconds before we cut out here, but I wanted to make sure folks know how to follow you, how they can support your campaign.

Terrific. Terrific. Best way to do that is go to DeanHeller.com. Go to DeanHeller.com. There's a launch video on there. It only lasts about two minutes. Take a look at that if you like the tone, if you like the direction that we're trying to take in Nevada.

Send it to your friends. If you really like it, there's a donate button on there. Send it to me. A donation would be wonderful. Awesome. But this campaign, we're what, three and a half weeks out? I think we're in a great spot right now. I think we're in great shape. Fantastic. Thank you, Senator. Really, really appreciate having you on the program today. Breaking Battlegrounds coming right back.

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Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Sam Stone, my co-host Chuck Warren, off in the great blue yonder once again. But we have a full studio in here today, even though they have been silent and, you know, probably no one but me. I finally spoke. Well, maybe if you put my name on the title, like, maybe I'll be more likely to speak. Okay, aren't you the one who does those things, though? Breaking Battlegrounds with Kylie Kipper. Okay, look, if this is what it takes to get you to actually talk into the microphone, I think I'm down for it. But...

Really great interview. And thank you for helping get Senator Dean Heller on the program, former U.S. Senator, because I think he was talking about some really important things. And I think right at the end, he touched on school choice, which is really one of the most critical things, I think, for folks around this country who saw what their kids were learning and not learning during the pandemic. Yeah, absolutely. And my mom even told me that I would be homeschooled today if I was going through the school system right now. But there's still some issues with that just because

of the social cues that people learn in school that you don't necessarily learn at home when you're running. Well, I mean, look, I will say the data shows that homeschool kids do better in college than any other group of kids. And their lifetime earnings and all that kind of thing are the highest of any other. What would I be like today if I was homeschooled? You would be wealthier than you are. I know. In fact, you'd be sitting here running this show and telling me to run around and get guests for you. Yeah. Right?

Wow, I need to go back. Only up from here. I don't know if your mom's up for that at this point. I don't know if I'm up for that.

I'm ready to learn just in the field. Well, we have another guest lined up for today, Pete Hutchison from the Landmark Legal Foundation, talking Supreme Court, talking some of those things. We're going to try to get him on for the next segment. We're having a little bit of trouble, a little technical difficulty in the studio today connecting. But in the meantime, I was told that there's something totally obsessive and important that's going on in this country that I was almost entirely unaware of.

Yeah. How are you unaware of that? It's everywhere. OK, here's the thing. I am not at all into Hollywood. I mean, not even remotely into Hollywood. So when there's something about two Hollywood personalities on television, I don't pay any attention to this at all.

And Jamie is over here shaking her head because she is a nerd like me. I live under a rock. I try to avoid this if I can. And while I know who Johnny Depp is, clearly. He was great as Captain Jack Sparrow. Right? That's all I can think of. I had never heard of Amber Heard until all of a sudden her name's all over the TV. And Kylie now had to step out. So she is now further away from the microphone and won't be contributing to this segment at all. Yeah, lucky Kylie. Yeah.

But here's the thing. I've been, folks, I've been a little amazed by this thing because, quite frankly, Jamie, at the risk of being called a caveman. Oh, wait. That happens every day already. So never mind. You just got to accept it and move on. Proud Brontosaurus. Look.

As far as I can tell, the only thing I can come away from this trial with is that Amber Heard has blown the hot crazy scale completely out of the water. She's nuts. Like, she is a very, very attractive woman. This is a very attractive woman. And she is so unbelievably crazy that, no, that's just easy no. It's funny compared to, like, 2016 to now with her defamation or at least, like, the –

domestic abuse trial that you had in 2016 with the son, which was clearly biased since Johnny couldn't give any evidence during that time, as well as Amber having connection with the son of the judge. Okay, I have no idea. This is Sanskrit you're talking now, Slacker Will. I don't know what any of this is either. Yeah, wait. There's some previous trial? Now, let's just stop right here. This is bad enough. Look.

Someone was saying this is like half of what people are talking about on Twitter. Kylie, is that true? Oh, yeah. Really? Yeah, I think there's millions of people using the hashtag JusticeForJohnnyTem, which I just think is so great. Okay, that hashtag is pretty fantastic. Yeah.

I won't say the other ones. I'm not sure if you can say them on the radio. Well, this is a Christian station and I occasionally mess that up. So let's not go there. Yeah. But we have Pete Hutchinson coming on. So. OK, fantastic. More educational things. Yeah. No, that's going to be probably far more interesting than most of our audience. But then again, 50 percent. So maybe not. Very true. I don't even know what to make of this. Like, how does how does this become a national drama?

I mean, televise A-list celebrities on like a, you know, courtroom show. Fox plays it from the court show or from the courtroom on their TV show, like the entire thing some days. Yeah.

You're kidding me. No, Fox News plays it. So I turn Fox on in the morning, like to hear what's going on, you know, discuss it with myself because I live by myself. Folks, this is why I no longer watch TV. But then if I just leave it on and I start working, then I hear, you know, they're playing it straight from the courtroom. Wow. I believe it was the judge actually that decided for it to be televised. Okay, look, we have 30 seconds before we go to break. And thank goodness we have a guest to talk to because this is just my nightmare.

I don't know how this country got in this position. We have real issues of war in Ukraine. We've got inflation through the roof. Nobody can find baby formula. And somehow all we're talking about is Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. It's the escapism, Sam. Folks, Breaking Battlegrounds will be coming right back with actual substance. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. Your host, Sam Stone, Chuck Warren, out of the studio today.

But on the line with us, Pete Hutchison from the Landmark Legal Foundation, president of the Landmark Legal Foundation. He's dedicated nearly 30 years to serving the conservative movement with the foundation. Been in the trenches for some of the most important public policy issues of the last quarter century, including school choice, judicial taxation, labor union political coercion, issues with the EPA, the IRS, etc.

a whole other list of federal agencies that conservatives have not been very happy with for a long time for a lot of good reasons. Pete, thank you for joining us and welcome to the program. Well, thanks for having me. I'm very happy to be here. Now, we are seeing kind of a really extraordinary time with the United States Supreme Court. Some things that are totally unprecedented, at least as far as I know.

totally unprecedented in the history of the court, starting with the leaked draft of the decision to potentially overturn Roe v. Wade, but then also with the protest that's followed on with that in front of justices' houses. Give us some perspective on this, because this is really blowing the norms of the court out of the water. Right. It's

it's really distressing on many levels. But if you, you know, you go up to like the 35,000 foot level and, you know, our institutions are what make this the greatest country in the history of the world. And the rule of law is the lifeblood of our institutions. It is crucial that the judiciary is, is,

is maintained in such a way, the respect for the judiciary, the sanctity of deliberation in the Supreme Court, it's critical that that's maintained because judges are the firewall, and especially Supreme Court justices. They're the firewall between the people and tyranny. And when the institution is degraded,

which is, you know, this is not a new thing. The leaking of the draft opinion is unprecedented, and

but for an incident in the teens, I believe, when a clerk leaked an opinion that had to do with a Wall Street deal and was essentially an insider trading deal. This is much worse, much bigger, much more traumatic to the nation. But here at Landmark Legal Foundation, we

We've been on this for several years. This is not a new thing. It goes back, you know, well, way beyond the Kavanaugh hearing, but that's a great place to start with the entire Democrat caucus on that committee meeting.

employing the Saul Alinsky rules for radicals to try to destroy Kavanaugh as an individual and to undermine the court and the legitimacy of his appointment of the president at the time. I think it was a guy named Trump to call into question all of the conservatives on the court going back to Justice Thomas.

You can draw a straight line from those attacks to now the personalized protests in the front yards of justices. And for that, I lay the blame on Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama, and now Joe Biden, who cannot act as statesmen. And that's what we need, are statesmen.

where are the statesmen on the left to stand up and say, no, we're not going to do this. We're not going to allow this. This is bigger than one decision.

or these individuals. Our entire nation is at stake here. It's very traumatic. It's a scary time. I get the sense, and maybe this is a little out of your field, but I get the sense that a lot of their personalization of these attacks, the sort of victimization that they're trying to play all the time,

It comes from a lack of policy. I mean, they don't appear to have a cohesive policy strategy or ideas or even a direction they want to go because they're getting tugged around by far-left Twitter every day in a different direction. And the only thing they have left are to turn everything into these public circuses. And when you're doing that to the Supreme Court, they've done it to Congress and to politics nationwide, but when you're doing it to the Supreme Court...

There's a real risk to the republic, to the system of government that we've had and that has graded the greatest prosperity and peace of the last 200 years. That's at stake right now, isn't it?

Oh, you're right. You're absolutely right. And this is the fundamental problem with being dominated by progressive radicals, because there is no philosophy there. There is no agenda there beyond to burn down institutions. And then, you know, we're left with asking, which what you just did is like, well, now what? You've undermined the Supreme Court legitimacy. Nobody believes in their authority. Nobody takes their decision seriously. And

You think that's going to stop with the courts? No, that's going to stop with the legislative branch. Is that

second-day branch and lead toward a form of anarchy where people just decide what they want to do and that's what we're going to do. And that is not a philosophy that can sustain itself and support a great nation or even a terrible nation. We see that sort of thing where tyranny is. It's the rule of individuals and not the rule of law. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and this is a it really is a broader thing. I mean, you look at what's happened with the CDC and a lot of the expert institutions of the country that have been politicized.

And the risk is that when something really serious comes up, whether it's a case at the Supreme Court or a new disease that comes along with potentially much more deadly than COVID, how much do people want to listen to these institutions if they're seen as entirely political? Yeah, you're so right. Absolutely.

this sort of snap judgment, like, oh, we better do something. We've got to do something. So let's do this. Let's try that. Well, no, no. The science says this and that. And you get to the point where, okay, you guys don't even know what science means. And so we reject you as an institution. And you get this...

you know, the sky is falling deal where, you know, after a while people are not going to cooperate. And, uh, man, that that's, I guess at our peril, but at the same time, it's like, okay, you guys kept saying all this stuff about mask mandates or stay away from each other or whatever it was. And, uh, and none of that worked.

Maybe their legitimacy, calling into question their legitimacy is a legit activity. So you've got to prove stuff to us before you impose it on us. And let us decide. Let us be part of the process. The left does not stand for that ever. No, they do not. And in talking about that, let's talk about the protests going on in front of justices' houses. Right.

Because this is an escalation that is really dangerous and unprecedented, right? It is. It absolutely is. And again, this is a rules for radicals.

approach, where you personalize an issue, you go after an individual, you do not let go, you just keep escalating and escalating. The problem with that and the danger that we face, well, in particular, the justices face right now in their families, is that some nut job out there is going to take it to a new level and say, well, this is what they really want. You know, this is what we really need to do. We'll

We'll take one of them out. And so we are in a very perilous time, not just for the nation, although this sort of intimidation and legitimate threats that they face do undermine the institution, but it undermines more than that. It undermines the civil society. Mm-hmm.

You know, one of the things that I worry about with the left's constant push to undermine civil society and to tear down these institutions, and like you said, if you're

If you're dedicated to and comfortable with packing the Supreme Court, then frankly, especially for someone who's not all that stable emotionally or intellectually to begin with, it's not a great leap to, well, if I can't do that, why not just get rid of some of the members standing in the way of the things I want? That's a really thin line we're walking at this point. It is.

How do we reverse course on this, or can we? I mean, I think I've talked to a lot of people out there now who are really concerned about the direction this country is going, really concerned about the divisiveness, and feel caught in the middle with no way to do anything about it. Well, what's required is...

statesmanship. And this doesn't just apply to the left. It applies to the right as well. We need people who are principled, who will stand up and say, you know, I disagree. I have disagreements. And they are fundamental disagreements. And in some cases, they are heated disagreements. But we must not allow or sort of tacitly

not at intimidation and threats as a strategy. You know, our president, here's a guy who essentially said it's okay to follow members of his own party into the bathroom in order to pressure them.

And in the case of the justices, he hasn't said anything meaningful. And he hasn't, more importantly than that, he hasn't taken any action. The attorney general, who was very happy to stick FBI counterterrorism agents on school parents who go to school board meetings, didn't say a word until two days ago.

about this situation. Ten days passed and he doesn't say a word. It's a federal crime to do what these people are doing. I was just going to ask that. This is actually a federal crime.

Yes. It's a federal crime to intimidate or or threaten a judge, juror or participant in a federal case. Now, personally, I'd say protests in front of anyone's house are just morally and ethically wrong, period.

Well, they are indeed. So, you know, even without it being a federal crime, the president of the United States ought to stand up and realize he's the one guy who's got a permanent security detail. So he doesn't have to worry about it. Nancy Pelosi has a 12-foot wall around her house in San Francisco, so she doesn't have to worry about it. But the rest of these people have to worry about it.

You've got a congressman getting shot in a baseball practice. What's to say that in this climate...

That that absent condemnation from the leaders of the progressive left, somebody in their crowd is going to be nutty enough to to take some terrible action. And and it just these guys not going to be stopped until their leadership stands tall and firm and condemns it.

Well, Pete, this is Kylie, and I'm reading on your website that you guys are a nonprofit. What is it that you guys are doing to kind of combat some of these issues, and how can people get involved in your organization? Well, our website, landmarklegal.org, thank you for mentioning that. But what we've done in this area is we filed an ethics complaint against Chuck Schumer when he threatened Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh.

His conduct violates Senate rules of basically it's sort of a general behavior thing. We filed an ethics complaint against the entire Democrat caucus when they wrote letters to judges on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals down in Florida.

to pressure them to get off of a case was a completely inappropriate thing. Now, you know, the Democrats are in control of Congress, and so until that changes, those will go anywhere. Democrats say they're for the separation of church and state, but their church is leftist politics, and they have no separation anywhere. That's right.

That's right. Pete Hutchinson from the Landmark Legal Foundation, thank you so much for joining us today. We are going to have him on partly on the podcast-only segment, folks, if you want to tune in, landmarklegal.org. Breaking Battlegrounds coming back on the air next week. Welcome back to the podcast-only segment of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today.

The irrepressible Kylie Kipper has been dragged to the microphone once again against her will. And staying on the line with us, Pete Hutchison from the Landmark Legal Foundation, president of the Landmark Legal Foundation. Pete, again, thank you for joining us.

Well, thank you.

A gas crisis and a constitutional crisis at our Supreme Court. The overriding concern of most Americans today is Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.

Who knew that Johnny Depp could be a maniac? I didn't see that coming at all. That's first. And second, who gives a shit about Johnny Depp and whatever her name is? I just don't get it. It's not like it's OJ. So what you're saying is Landmark's not doing anything to get involved in that. Yeah.

Oh, well, not yet. But for the right price, we could, sure, a good, well-placed donation might get us involved. Yeah, you know what? That's exactly what this trial needs is some good amicus briefs. Yeah, I could write that, dude. This is actually really embarrassing to me, Pete, Kylie. I got to tell you that we are obsessing over this ridiculous thing at this moment. It's sort of an indictment of America.

It's an indictment of us as a people to be this silly. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong at all. I'm trying to think of what it was. There was a similar...

obsession going on but it was in congress it was a hearing uh probably the judiciary committee because i have i watch a lot of those i i wish i could remember what it was but i was going back and forth between cnn msnbc and fox see what everybody was saying i was thinking a few weeks ago about the ufos when they were discussing that and

Well, now that's important. Yeah, I was about to say that actually might be a serious issue. But I think it's more important what's affecting us today. Well, what I was going to say, though, is that I accidentally stopped on Say Yes to the Dress and I didn't move the channel for two hours. Hey, now that's quality television, okay? That is. That is.

You know, I'm on my second daughter getting married in two years, so we're all about the dress. There you go. Anyway. Yeah, no, I think that UFO thing, the Chinese coming after us in yet one more way that nobody wants to think about. Yeah, they appear to be getting ahead in technology in a whole bunch of areas. And I read a great piece maybe a decade ago about how they had built vastly more supercomputing capacity than the U.S. has today.

And it strikes me that that builds a lot more islands, too. Yeah. You know, so that's probably as good a theory as any behind the UFOs. But now I got to get to the juicy stuff from the Supreme Court here. Yes. You've been following this for for 30 years. You have been in court and seen all these justices and the lawyers that come in front of them. You have argued cases in front of them. Who is the smartest Supreme Court? Well.

Justice? Before I answer that, I've never argued a case. Oh, you haven't? I have sat next to Bo Derrick during the Supreme Court argument on the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program. Okay, we have four people in this studio and three are totally baffled and have no idea who Bo Derrick is. Oh, no! And one of them is sitting here replaying 10. Okay.

That's pathetic. No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm pathetic. Pete, we're getting old. We're getting old, Pete. I guess so. Well, I did cross 60 and my hair is white, so there you go. All right. I'm going to answer your question.

For me, the most brilliant – they're all brilliant. Well, except for maybe a couple. But the most brilliant Supreme Court justice is Clarence Thomas. And here's why. The guy is so consistent. He's consistently – he's so principled that you know ahead of time in most cases how he's going to decide. You just wonder how –

brilliantly he's going to write about it. And he writes in such a way that, you know, dummies like me from the Ozarks can understand what he's talking about and get it. The guy is brilliant. And he's a guy who was kind of dismissed by a lot of court watchers for a lot of years. But I agree with you. In recent years, he's really been stepping up and his his legal mind is astounding.

Yeah, his dissents through the year have been terrific, particularly when it comes to cases that the court doesn't take. Oftentimes he'll write a dissent about, well, I would have taken this case because it gives us an opportunity to revisit this terrible precedent or this terrible, you know, whatever. And those were always dismissed, but now they're taking those cases. So...

He's terrific. And there is a lengthy legal history in the Supreme Court that sometimes it's those dissents that create the foundation for what will be a major change in the law from the court 20, 30, 40 years later. Right. Another really brilliant writer on the court is Elena Kagan.

who just writes beautifully. And when I see her name, although in the Brnovich case out of Arizona there,

She wrote a terrible dissent because it struck me as just so political. But typically she writes really well and like Thomas, very clear, very principled, hard to argue with. So when she starts asking questions or I see her name on a lead opinion, I think, uh-oh, we're in trouble. One thing that surprised me, and we didn't talk about this, but if you can comment on it,

Was the court refusing to take up the elections cases from Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, just those two cases?

I thought those were different than the others and should have deserved Supreme Court consideration. Well, the Pennsylvania case is one that we were involved with actually kind of after the election. But the issue there was not about tinfoil hat type stuff. It wasn't, you know, Hugo Chavez, right?

determining votes. These were not Chinese ballots being printed from flown in? No. What that was about is you had a... In Pennsylvania, their constitution is very specific about the circumstances and who can vote absentee. The legislature expanded that. Their Supreme Court at the last minute expanded it further. I mean, within a week of the election,

change the rules for when ballots could be counted. And that's what was before the Supreme Court. And Justice Alito wrote a... It was Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas, I believe, just the three of them. But they wrote and said, no, no, no, this...

It'll be too late to take this after. And this is a fundamental change in the law made by some by a court that doesn't have authority to make the change. I mean, it is the most fundamental issue. They should have taken the case. They didn't. And it was a huge mistake. I wrote an article about it, by the way.

that said the title of it was something like Justice Roberts is right on election law except when he's not. And that was what that article was about. And also that the Supreme Court was inviting the judiciary generally, but the court was inviting future problems by not settling that issue ahead of the election. Hmm.

So good call on that one. I agree with you. Yeah, totally great. Before we let you go here, we asked you who the smartest justice you've observed was. So I got to ask on the other side, who's the one you're going? Where the heck did they come up with that?

Yeah, well, I'd like to say it was Alan Alda in that movie First Wednesday in October. Okay, everybody look up Alan Alda. Now, again, good call because we have three blank stares right here. Hey, I love Alan Alda. I haven't seen that movie, but I love him.

He's such a leftist. He's probably a conservative in the movie. But anyway, it's about two Supreme Court justices who have an affair. So, okay, so that's not the answer. I will just say this in response to your question. Every time Justice Sotomayor

starts asking questions, I get really excited because I think this can only help. That's all I have to say about that. You wonder if some of the other left-leaning justices don't at some point want to just pull her aside and go, you know, Clarence had this really good routine where he didn't say a word for years. Maybe you should try that.

You know, you mentioned the new rule. You didn't mention it. But the new process is you get uninterrupted time. Thomas gets to go first because he's a senior guy and he don't ask questions. And it's Sotomayor who is the one who cannot resist interrupting not just

Not just him, but anybody. And it's I just think it's so rude. But I don't know. Wisdom comes when wisdom comes. Can't stop it. Well, let's hope someday that wisdom comes to that seat. But thank you so much, Pete. Pete Hutchison from the Landmark Legal Foundation. Landmark legal dot org folks. Definitely check them out and stay on top of their work. They're doing amazing work.

Pete, I want to really thank you for being on the program today. Thanks. Incredibly grateful to have you. Make sure you have everybody watch 10. Yes. I don't know. Well, then you'll know why I have no idea what happened in that oral argument. Yeah, I understand you completely. I would not have known a word of what was said on that bench that day at all.

I think I was about 32 years old, too. So you have to add that in. Oh, yeah. No, I don't think it really matters what age you are. If you've seen 10 and you know who Bo Derek is, you wouldn't have been paying attention to that case at all either. Folks, that's just the reality of it. Yeah. OK. I think I've said too much. Thanks for having me on. I think we all have. Pete, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Well, Kylie, fantastic guests again today. Thank you so much for having them on there. Really appreciate you getting them into on the line and that kind of thing. Yeah, he's right. Y'all don't know who Bo Derek was, but she was maybe the most beautiful woman from the 1980s. Jamie does.

I've heard the name, but I have no idea. Oh, I thought you said you did. Was that someone else that I didn't know? Alan Alda. Yeah, that was someone else you didn't know. So here's the thing about Alan Alda, and I always like to tell this story. I know we're running a little longer than usual here, but I'm going to tell it anyway. In the final season of The West Wing, the one season of The West Wing that nobody watched except Jamie and I. I loved that season. I did too. It was fantastic, folks. You probably do need to Netflix and watch that final season if you missed it. Totally worth it.

They had Alan Alda as the Republican presidential candidate. And his opposition after fierce primary was Jimmy Smith's. And Alda didn't like the writing. So he insisted that for all the debates and that sort of thing that he write his own script. And they actually went out and polled people. This was such a big show that they went out and polled people after the debates to find out who they would vote for.

And the majority of people said the Republican Alan Alda. Wow. He was great. I was going to vote for him. Yeah. No, he did. It was a very Reagan-esque. Oh, wait, wait. So he didn't like the way the script was written for the show? Yes, for the show. For the show. I thought you were talking about how people have a script writer. Oh, no, no, no. So on the show, no, he didn't like that. So he did the debate.

ad-libbed it. Wow. The points, that kind of thing. The producers, who of course were dedicated progressives, then went out and polled it and assumed Jimmy Smith's would be, you know, like the runaway winner of this quote election they were having. Surprise, surprise. So basically now he's a script writer for Hollywood. Yes. Well, so, but the funny thing about that, if you remember the show, they had to create a fake nuclear disaster. Yeah.

In Allen Alda's home, you know. In California. He was a Republican from California and Jimmy Smits was the Democrat from Texas, which was hilarious. Yes. They were praying for Beto long before Beto started losing races. But they actually had to create a fake nuclear disaster to keep him out of that fantasy office, if you will, because the arguments were so much better. Wow. Yes. So even when Democrats write the script...

They can't actually win, which explains Twitter. It explains their obsession and hatred of Elon Musk at this exact moment. It's crazy. It explains the news media. It explains almost everything we're dealing with, folks. It really does. They just can't handle the competition. You need an argument to do that. Yeah, and I'm out of arguments for today. So that's going to be it for Breaking Battlegrounds, folks. Thank you for tuning in. Really appreciate having you join us on the program. Make sure you download, share with your friends.

You know, all that kind of stuff that I have to beg you for because, hey, we like being on the air. That's the only way we're going to stay on the air. Just kidding. We do. Well, I like being on the air. Kylie doesn't. I do. I'm getting used to it. Okay, you are getting used to it? Yeah, not bad. You guys were good today. Thank you. Should have started talking earlier. All right, folks. That'll do it. Tune in next week. Breaking Battlegrounds. We're coming back.

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