Kevin Freeman on the Secret Plan to Sabotage America
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Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Sam Stone. My co-host Chuck Warren out of the studio today but graciously joining us in studio the Reverend Jared Maupin. What a pleasure to be here. And on the line with us our first guest today Kevin Freeman. He is host of Economic War Room on Blaze TV, author of the new book According to Plan, The Elite's Secret Plan to Sabotage America. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us. What is their plan to take this country down?

Well, Sam, thanks for having me. According to Plan, it's written about two different groups, the World Economic Forum and the globalists, and also the Chinese Communist Party, both of which see America as the one thing standing in the way of total global domination.

And the elites sometimes work on both sides, sometimes work separately. But their goal is to put us back into a surf position like medieval times where the elites run everything and the rest of us work for them. We don't own anything. We serve their interests and needs and we'll end up eating bugs apparently. So that is the secret plan. Yeah, that sounds like a terrible plan to me. But

It seems to be oddly attractive to a lot of these elite, these leaders in the West. I mean, really kind of in a scary way that they appear to be looking at China in the way that they are cracking down on their population with with serious envy and intent to try to copy what they're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. They love the collectivist nature of the Chinese Communist Party. They love the fact that the elites live better than the masses. They love the control mechanisms that they have through technology and through just outsourcing.

out and out repression. And so it is kind of strange to watch Klaus Schwab and the others admire China when they claim that they support the ideas of democracy and individual liberty and so forth. They don't at all. They support collectivism. Yeah, I think that's very clear by what they're doing. Tell us a little bit about what some of the first steps of this plan that they appear to be enacting around the globe look like, because I think a lot of people are

they see these things in a vacuum and they don't put them all together. Well, it's personalized in America. Part of the plan is the racial division, the idea to stoke up Americans to hate one another, to have red states hate blue states and blue states had red state hate red states. Part of their plan is to weaken us economically to we live in a global world. And,

Yes, you may lose your job, but it's for the global good that we no longer manufacture here. By the way, if you put your money with Wall Street, we'll invest in environment, social governance, all three wonderful things. We're going to weaponize your money. It just happens to deny your values. It happens to support the Green New Deal. It happens to support critical race theory.

to support quotas on every board, that support things like LGBTQ and a whole host of things that are good for you whether you believe it or not. How much of this plan of theirs – in other words, how far down this road are we? Can we turn this around? Is there enough people still willing to fight back against these powers to do that? Well, there are enough.

Oh, sorry. Oh, no, go ahead. There are enough people in China. Look at the turnout of the people in China because of the zero COVID policies, because they've been deplatformed, because they've been debanked, because they've been told they don't matter anymore. You're locked in their homes and so forth. The people are there. The question is whether the system will allow it. A perfect example of that, I tweeted this earlier today, basically, if you can't...

question election fraud, then there's no incentive to not commit election fraud.

Right. It's human nature. People will. You know, the second we say you can't talk about election fraud, that's the moment at which election fraud can take over and control everything because you're not allowed to say it. If you can't question vaccines, if you can't question, hey, I believe that men are men and women are women. If you can't question that, then you're a hater, hater, a bigot, a homophobe or you're all these different things. Well, if you can't question that, then you can't question whether or not two plus two equals five.

The state will tell you what to think. And they're pretty far down that track. If I may, Kevin, this is Reverend. We see the soft invasion, TikTok, social media, the way they're influencing elections and things here. But can you speak a little bit to the foreign policy implications? I was just chatting with Sam a little bit earlier about the fact that, you know, their expansion, their reach, really their exploitation of Africa. It's unparalleled.

Oh, there's no question. The Belt and Road Initiative is a means to create vassal states or slave states essentially to serve because what they do is they give you these low interest teaser loans to build something and then when you can't make the payments when the interest adjusts or whatever, they come in and they take over the property. I mean, if that were done here,

by people selling houses and things like giving you money loans for houses, we'd say they're predators and we would ban them. Well, China's doing that exactly. And we're supporting them in doing that. That's the crazy thing is we're funding much of their economic rise and we're currently funding much of their economy through our purchases and through our investments. Yeah, here in Arizona where our studio is, if you add a balloon payment on the end of an auto loan,

That's illegal because you had all sorts of people getting their autos repossessed at the end of their auto loan. But China is literally doing that to some of the poorest developing countries on earth where they're essentially – their aim is to essentially repossess or possess those countries, right? Yeah.

There's no question. And keep in mind, this is a nation that in 1999, when they published the book Unrestricted Warfare, had an economy one-tenth the size of the American economy, roughly the size of the Italian economy. And in the past 23 years,

through repression, through control, through manipulation, through capturing of Wall Street, through U.S. aid, and through technology theft, IP theft by hacking and other means, they have literally traded places with us. Our economy has not grown to the same extent. We've lost our manufacturing base. It's like that old movie, Trading Places with Eddie Murphy. They bet us a dollar and then they took everything.

One of the things that I've been most concerned with in watching this is this seems to be a very orchestrated effort right now around the globe to take away people's guns, to take away their ability to question elections, to take away their ability to communicate information.

via the, you know, online or to communicate in any kind of forum. The government is stepping in to limit all these things. And I looked at COVID in a place like New Zealand. What they did there would not have been possible without all those controls in place. But it was because they were. Oh, there's no question. And it's a technological repression. It is the elites attempting to force us into groupthink.

Again, if you can't question health policy, you have no liberty.

Just imagine how far that could go with the idea of Mengele and the experimentation in Nazi Germany or what happened here with the black population and syphilis and other things that we've done throughout history, medical repression, if you're not allowed to question the medical elite. America wasn't built on this. We were built on individual thought and individual liberty. Even in our patent system, which is the current show out on Economic War Room,

In the patent system, we have General Robert Spalding. It was designed in the Constitution to say that we could create patent laws that George Washington signed a law that said he, she, or they could invent something and have patent protection. I mean, it's very forward thinking to imagine a woman could invent something and have the ownership rights of that

in 1790 and that's what we did because we believed in individual liberty and individuals can invent things the British the Germans all the great science all the great nations the world had science societies and said no this is the answer and if you think differently you're wrong

Well, historically, they've been proven wrong over and over and over. In the early 1900s, the great science society of America said man will never fly, but if man ever does fly, it's going to take 10 million years and more money than we have on planet Earth to create a flying machine. At the same time, two individuals, Orville and Wilbur Wright, were bicycle repairmen and they were creating the first flying machine.

individual liberty is necessary, individual thought is necessary for a free society, and what the Chinese communists and the World Economic Forum and the Biden White House and DHS and others are trying to clamp down on individual thought, repressing it so that they can have maximum control, and it will be to the detriment, if not the death, of humanity. Well, you see that.

the new army that was raised for the, the IRS to crack down on, on cash app and, and, uh, uh, chime and others, uh, looking at, uh, people's earnings over, over $600. Uh, Sam, you and I have talked about the, the greatest civil rights threat in the country today has nothing to do with race and everything to do with civil asset forfeiture. These are all tools that are, that are being used to, um,

reduce everyone's or erase everyone's economic freedoms. And it goes hand in hand with China's war on the American people. That's the plan. Yeah, Kevin, can you talk about that a little bit? Because we actually have seen countries around the globe, including China, which uses freezing people's assets, but Canada, other countries. When you create this totally digital society, if you create an alliance between big tech and government, that is a really scary thing for most people.

Oh, absolutely. We're seeing it happen here. I'm going to have my friend Nick Vujicic come in to visit us next week. Nick Vujicic was born without arms and legs. He's a very sympathetic character. He's a tremendous human being. He speaks to hundreds of millions of people worldwide. And one morning he woke up and was told by his bank that you're no longer allowed to have a bank account here. And the only reason he could find was because he was vocally pro-life and that was offensive to somebody. So they cut him off. What about PayPal? Sure.

Yeah, Kanye, PayPal, you say something negative on the internet, they see it and they take $2,500 out of your account. Oh, that was just a draft proposal. We didn't really mean it. Seriously? Then why are you drafting the proposal? Why is it still in your terms of service? The ability to debank people, and that's going to go on steroids with the central bank digital currency.

This is economic warfare. That's why we have an economic war room to help people protect their individual liberty and to weaponize their money for liberty, security and values, not ESG and not the benefit and the interest of the state.

We got to go to break here in just a little bit over two minutes. We're going to be back on our next segment here with Kevin Freeman, host of Economic War Room on Blaze TV. Folks, definitely go online or go to your bookstore. Get a copy of his book, According to Plan, The Elite's Secret Plan to Sabotage America.

You can also follow Kevin on social media at Economic War Room or go to their website, economicwarroom.com. Kevin, before we wrap up this little segment, one last question.

What do people need to do in their daily lives to start pushing back against this? And obviously that's a longer answer. We'll get to more when we come back here. But what's the first thing you'd tell people to do? First thing you need to do is become aware that what we see as a marketplace or enemy's view is a battle space. You're being manipulated by your bank account, by your investments.

by your social media. You're being manipulated and it's time to wake up. And once you take the red pill of reality, then you're prepared to fight back. That'll be the last word of this segment. Breaking Battlegrounds coming back in just a moment.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today, but joining me in-house, the Reverend Jarrett Maupin. We're going to have a discussion on all sorts of fun, not so fun issues coming up in the second segment around race and crime and everything else that's going on. But right now we're having a fantastic discussion with Kevin Freeman, host of The Economic War Room on Blaze TV, author of the new book, According to Plan, The Elite's Secret Plan to Sabotage America. Kevin,

Kevin, when we went to break, we were talking about people, how do they start fighting back? And obviously the first step is becoming aware of all of what's going on. But how much – I'm having an argument with a lot of friends in my life about whether people who are concerned with all these collusion between big tech and big government and all these other things, whether they need to be focused on creating an alternative economic system or whether we can still fight back and recapture this one.

Well, I think we have to try both methods. Elon Musk with Twitter is potentially a solution because people step up and say, "No, we're going to allow free speech." But we also need to look to alternative social media. I think TikTok is lost. It's owned by the Chinese Communist Party. I don't know that people should be getting on it. It's geared as digital fentanyl to basically warp and control your mind through algorithms studying your behavior.

But we need to create alternatives. We need to have alternative banking platforms. We need to have alternative social media. We need to have things that are state-based and not just federal-based, especially if you live in some of the red states. So I think we need to do both, fight back and create alternatives. Because if we have alternatives, we'll have a lot stronger fight in the original to take back the nation if we can prove that we have an alternative we can go to.

That's a very good point because then you're actually using market forces against them. So, folks, I'm enjoying the heck out of this discussion with Kevin Freeman. I hope you follow him. It's at EconomicWarRoom on Twitter, EconomicWarRoom.com if you're online. Kevin –

Why the change now? I mean, was COVID just the opportunity? But it seems like the WEF, China, all these actors who have this vision of a new world order and are now, after years and years of denying that this was their vision, they're now articulating it. They feel emboldened to come out and say these things directly. You see this from Klaus Schwab. You see this from President Xi. We are seeing a real shift in how they approach this fight.

What what emboldened them to this degree? Well, I think that they were going to cook us like a frog in the kettle in 2017, 2018, 2019, the first four years of a Clinton administration, Hillary Clinton as president. And Donald Trump interrupted that and it frightened them and they decided they needed to make it a full election.

out war and they've created a full out war on anybody who believes differently. They've said they're radicals. I was in the Pentagon working as a consultant in the Pentagon in 2008, 9, 10 and 11, warning people about some of the things that we were seeing from communist China, warning about some of the other challenges that we were facing and they couldn't see it, but now it is so obvious because

If you stand against their agenda, which is the book According to Plan, and I want to recommend it, accordingtoplanbook.com forward slash EWR. It's a buy one, get one free. But if you stand against their agenda, the net result is they're going to come after you with everything that they've got.

because you're an existential threat to their plan. And so that's why I think they're so emboldened as Donald Trump forced their hand to stop just cooking us like a frog in the kettle. Well, you know, it's interesting. You see the Clintons on the Chinese payroll, obviously the Obamas, people are learning more and more about the Bidens. And you match that with just, you know,

what you may read even in Wall Street Journal about Chinese real estate expansion and ownership. What should our Congress be doing? What do you feel state leaders, governors, and heads of legislatures should be doing to prevent just the most obvious reaches that China is making into our society?

Well, I've got in front of me Peter Schweitzer's book Secret Empires, and it talks about how both sides of the aisle in Congress have been co-opted. On the cover is John Kerry, who has recently at a climate conference said America needs to pay reparations for our climate damage, and some of that money would go to communist China, who's done more polluting than we've ever dreamed of.

So we've got to first ferret out the truth of whose side are you on? Which payroll are you on? What can Congress do? They can immediately do things. Well, under the Trump administration, we stopped the Thrift Savings Plan of America from investing in communist China. Unfortunately, under the Biden administration, they put that right back.

So people need to wake up and the action they need to take is weaponize their money. It's largely an economic war, that's why it's called Economic War Room, and you need a financial advisor trained to help you defund communist China, defund woke globalism, and invest in liberty, security, and values.

We do that training at Liberty University. You can learn more at nsic.org, nationalsecurityinvestmentconsultant.org. What we're doing is training a financial advisor in eight weeks how to help their clients weaponize their money so they preserve liberty and pass it to the next generation rather than investing in their own demise. That, I think, as a one single step is one huge thing people can do. Another thing they can do is they can look into alternatives.

cover these every week in the economic war room. For example, an alternative to central bank digital currency, and that would be using Article I, Section 10 money from the Constitution, which we call it transactional gold, where we can set up and have an alternative to the Federal Reserve even, a different way to pay. So we're creating alternatives. That's what the economic war room is all about. How do we increase our offense? How do we take the fight to China in China?

It's money. And the way to do it is to weaponize your money to invest in things that are going to help America and hinder Chinese communist repression. Fantastic. Kevin Freeman, I want to thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate your insights, folks. Be sure to get his book. Kevin, give us the URL where people can get that book.

According to planbook.com forward slash EWR, and that gives them buy one, get one free offer. The buy one, get one free, perfect for Christmas time. Get one for yourself. Get one for one of your loved ones or friends. This is, I think, one of the most important issues of this era, maybe the most important issue. We are in the midst of a war, and Kevin is exactly right. We need to be on wartime footing. So thank you so much, Kevin, for joining us today. Thank you.

All right, folks. Well, before we go to break here, we're going to be coming back with the Reverend Jarrett Maupin. We have a fantastic discussion coming up for you. But you know what? You've just been hearing about it. Are you concerned with stock market volatility, especially with Joe Biden in office? I certainly am. What if you could invest in a portfolio with a high fixed rate of return that's not correlated to stock market, a portfolio where you'll know what each monthly statement will look like with no surprises, where

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Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. In studio with me today, Jarrett Maupin, the Reverend Jarrett Maupin. And as we often, not often enough, I think, to be honest with you folks, do on this program, we're bringing in someone who has a different point of view from your normal hosts, who is a Democrat.

a leader of the African-American community in Phoenix, a longtime civil rights leader here and around the country. You have marched. How many cities have you marched in, Jarrett? Well, it's probably in excess of 25. Somebody asked me the other day, you know, how many times have we...

Have we been arrested, you know, marching in prison? And we've lost count. That's scary. Now, I want to give both you and Sheriff Joe, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, away here. I'm going to get you to tell a story you told me years ago about the very first time Sheriff Joe arrested you and your father died.

Coming down to his office to sort things out. Come on. We got to hear that story for our listeners because this is too good to leave off the air. Well, you know, the sheriff and I have been friends for years.

for a long time. And, you know, he came down expecting me to, you know, to be shackled, you know, in the dungeon. So your dad comes down, comes down, busts into Sheriff Joe's office. And what does your dad see? You got arrested at this protest. Sheriff Joe took you back to his office. Your dad comes plowing in there.

expecting again to see me hog tied and I'm actually having orange juice and donuts and sitting there carrying on with the sheriff. We're having a very productive meeting, you know, and I blame the sheriff now. He set the standards so high for what happens when you're arrested at a nonviolent protest that I'm expecting, you know, locks and bagels, you know.

I mean, it seems reasonable at this point. You've got to try to one-up your predecessor, right? That's right. So come on, PennZone. What are you doing? Yeah, PennZone, if he's listening, at the next march, I'm going to intentionally get arrested. And I expect us to have, you know, we're going to have to have some pizza or something up there now.

He's got to take it an extra step. We're talking, folks, if you're not here in Arizona, about Sheriff Paul Penzo, the current Maricopa County Sheriff who replaced former Maricopa County Sheriff and national legend Joe Arpaio. And I like Joe. You know, you and I have been friends with him for a lot of years. He's a nice guy. Not everyone loves him, but I think a lot of people don't know.

They saw one side of him. They didn't know him and they didn't have that personal. Well, you know, he would tell me all the time, Reverend, you know, I I do racial profile and I I still freeze every time he tells a story. I said, what do you what do you mean, Sheriff? And he said, when I was a beat cop in D.C. and I was walking the streets in the in the black areas, says I stopped every white guy who was out after 10 p.m. I knew I knew they didn't have a reason to be there.

You know, they were getting drugs or trying to, you know, find, you know, you know what they were up to. And I was like, wow, you know, I hadn't thought about it through that lens. That's a I hadn't either. That's a really good one. That's like the ATMs being open at 3 a.m., right? If you go to the ATM, has anyone ever gotten money from an ATM at 3 a.m. for a noble purpose? I mean, let's just be honest here.

You know, we're going to talk about some more serious issues here, folks, especially when we get to the next long segment. But, Jared, you've been you and I have been friends for years now. You know, we have a certain disagreements on policy and that sort of thing. But we've always been able to sit down and have breakfast like we just did before this program and talk about those things. How much right now?

I see this disconnect with the younger black leaders in the country who aren't willing to engage or reach across the aisle and form those relationships over the years like you have.

We only have a couple of minutes here, but if you could just touch on that a little bit. Well, I think some of the emergent leaders are making the mistake of buying into being the activists and the, you know, playing the role. I love that term, activists. Sure. As opposed to real leadership. It's convenient in the fast media cycle that we're in to jump up and, you know,

say the buzzwords. Uh, but that's not really in service to the community. And we, and we see that the elections have shown that, uh, we're going to see that again in, in, in Georgia again, and in other places, uh, where the, the, the, uh, policies are coming up short, the squad. I mean, I think that's at the heart of their, their failure, but, uh, um,

I think we're coming up to a period of time in our politics, particularly in the black community, where the vetting of these people is going to happen. You know, people are – it's about bread and butter issues, public safety, and they're failing. Not only that, and I'm glad you brought up the vetting thing because if you look at the, like, what was it, $2 billion that BLM raised in 2020, none of that appears to have gone to any noble cause. Patrice, Opal, you know, if you're listening, you know.

I want an audit. I think we all want an audit at this point. Folks, we're going to come right back with the Reverend Jarrett Maupin. More on Breaking Battlegrounds. About a year and a half ago, we had what we called the Black, Brown, and White Show on here where we brought on a Hispanic Navy SEAL, had some very good conversations. Jarrett and I are going to get back into a little bit of that coming up. Stay tuned.

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And talking about uncertain times here on Breaking Battlegrounds, we're on with the Reverend Jarrett Maupin, longtime black activist leader in the Phoenix community, but has, as we were talking about in the previous segment, been involved in promoting the advancement of black people in this country, across the country, for many, many years now. I won't give away his age. He is...

He looks a lot younger than me. We'll give it that at this point. He's not going gray nearly as fast as the rest of his compadres are. He's looking good, man. You black don't crack, man. That's true. I was watching one of those little –

short videos on Facebook the other night and a black woman asked her white husband why he picked a black woman and she's going through all of her various assets if you will and she finally like no so why'd you pick me he's like have you looked in how old are you 51 have you looked in a mirror black women age like vampires yes

I died laughing. It is true, man. Black women look great until late in life. We're really, really young until we're old. And then it's like, boom. That is absolutely true. It's like there's no transition. That's right. But you're looking good, man. Thank you. You've lost weight in the last couple of years, looking great. And folks, Jarrett has been fighting the fight. And one of the things I liked about him, he and I first met...

when we started having these problems long before 2020 with police shootings and police issues. And Jared actually took the time to go out to the training center

And take the shoot no shoot course the police go through to learn about it and allow cameras to come out and follow him, the news to follow that. And you learned a lot from that. And then I saw that and reached out to you and just said, this is somebody I want to know, because if he's open minded enough to go there and get shot up close with a paintball gun.

Folks, if you've never done that before, that freaking hurts, doesn't it? Well, they should do it. It hurts, but it's very educational. When I did it, again, with Sheriff Joe and the local Fox affiliate, and one of the reporters there, Carrie Lake, happened to be an anchor, and I'm very proud that we won that Emmy together for that segment. I forgot about that. That's right, yeah. 30 million people watched that, and, you know, it's...

You've got to get in that situation so you have the ability to relate to law enforcement and the time frame and the tremendous amount of pressure that they're under to make those split decisions. Because for folks, and you can still find this on YouTube, right? Yeah, it's out there. If you just look up Reverend Jarrett Maupin, shoot, no shoot, I assume that'll pop up. That'll do it.

But now I'm going to let the cat out of the bag. You failed the course. Of course. I shot three times. Right. And I think on the fourth time, you know, disarmed the person. But, yeah, the first three, yeah, I shot them. No question. And that was a good learning experience, right? Absolutely. I mean, you know, again, you're there. You're in that moment.

These are decisions that are being made in a matter of 20, 30 seconds. A whole incident. Sure. Start to finish. And it's life or death. And we're asking people to go out into society and protect and serve but maintain order to a degree. And the stakes are high.

You know, after after going through that training, I can say and we haven't dived into the underlying issues, though, that that it is a beyond a high calling to become a police officer in in in our society today. So now turning around to dive into some of those issues.

I think one of the things that's going on – and it bothers me. It ties in a little bit to what we were talking about with Kevin Freeman is that people get a very – depending if you're on the left or the right, it's true either way. People get a very skewed perception of what's going on because they typically only see a narrative from one side. They're not really seeing the news. There's almost no actual news left out there to present that factual narrative.

So on the right right now, you have folks saying, particularly in black communities, crime is just going through the roof. Homicides are way, way up. And they're up a little bit for whites. They're up a little bit for Hispanics. But they're way up for blacks. All the other associated crime, kind of same story right now. So I'm going to put you on the spot, Jarrett. What is going on that is driving this right now? Well, I think what's driving the crime is

It should say the left would say this is just a made up narrative. But the numbers, the numbers don't matter. You know, and we just look at the conditions of our of our cities. Travel. I dare anyone to just travel, you know, go to Detroit, Chicago, L.A. And you'll see it, the effects of it.

Obviously, the fact that people are struggling in the economy, you see an exodus of retail manufacturing, really any sort of large employers from the inner city. So we have a lot of the natural factors that come from Democrat policy. I mean, even the affordable housing crisis contributes to the rise in unemployment.

in crime in these areas. But I think one of the first things we have to do is admit that that's what's going on. The left doesn't want to do that because it doesn't fit the narrative. But the fact is,

The murder rates are up. Property crimes. It's just awful. You know, I was telling you. And most of the victims of those crimes are other black people. Sure. I mean, this is this is I was telling you my neighborhood park, East Lake Park. If you're from Phoenix, 16th Street and Jefferson, you know, seven unsolved murders, all gun related black on black violence.

One of my cousins was killed over there. And that's in the middle of Church Row, you know. That was historically known as one of the nicest –

downtown, center downtown areas in Phoenix. Absolutely. I mean, right across the street from the home of legendary city councilman Calvin Good. But the crisis is real, and it's at everyone's front door. We know what's driving it. We know how to fix it, obviously, the economic policy that needs to go in place. But at the same time, from the left, you have

the villainization of police. I got to tell you this, went to a local high school. I was on the governing board for a time. I went and talked to some, some seniors and, and then went to an elementary school and, and talked to some, some kids in the eighth grade, ask them the same question, you know, who wants to be a NBA player, this or that, or this, you know, who wants to be a firefighter? You know, few hands went up. Who wants to be a police officer? No hands, no,

Is that in both? In both. Both high school and eighth? Wow. And that was really scary to me. That's really different from when I grew up and from when you grew up. Absolutely. I mean, it's obviously a noble profession. Make a good living. Service to your community, especially if you grow up in an area. I think it's real important. You know, if you want to be in law enforcement, think about your local area. I hear all the time from these activists that they want the police force to look more like them. Sure. Well, but

But don't they then have to go sign up to be policed to make it look like them? Well, where I'm going is I think that, you know, young people, teenagers and very young adults today are hearing that narrative from the media you talk about. And that's what sells, you know, that there is a war between blacks and law enforcement. But the truth is when you go and talk to those people's parents or their grandparents, you

the business owners in the area, barbershops, beauty shops, restaurants. I mean, I really do challenge people. You know, next time you have lunch, go into the black community, buy some soul food and chat it up with the people who are there. They're not aliens. And they're going to tell you that they want more police. The defund the police is a myth. If you ever want the honest scoop from someone over a two-piece and a biscuit, you will get the honest truth. Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's just the way it is, right? When people sit down and break bread with one another, they're going to be honest. And you'll find that much like working class, middle class white families, they want the police to come when they're called. Well, and I'm glad you bring up the middle class issue here because one of the things – and you and I talked about this a little bit while we were having breakfast this morning, actually. But one of the things that bothers me a little bit, and I want your take on it,

is that if you listen to the press, and it's on both sides, left and right, if you listen to the press, black people in America are presented...

In the worst light possible, they are represented by the portion of the black society that is the poorest, that has the most crime issues, that has the most, you know, I mean, most trauma going on around that community. When the majority, over 60 percent of black people in this country are middle class and up and are increasingly upwardly mobile. There's a real kind of break occurring there.

quite frankly, economically in the black community where the majority of the community is on a steady rise upwards.

And then there's the subset that's really kind of just stuck in place. Well, you have black middle class here in our local community that's largely suburban. They've moved from out of the inner city. They commute in. So the population that you're seeing mostly involved in crime, unfortunately, in places like Levine, south central, downtown, little pockets on the east side, kind of up north to Sunny Slope.

You have these concentrated areas where there's people who are stuck for one reason or another, and you aggravate that with a downwardly mobile economy. The fentanyl crisis, I mean, that has hit our community harder than the crack epidemic has.

And you have policy now that's of the left, you know, rob your local Walgreens, rob your local CVS, help yourself. We're not going to call the police. That's the perfect combination for, you know, all hell. You bring up the crack epidemic, and I think there's a really important correlation there because at that time, too, you had incidents that drove a police pullback from inner cities. That's right.

You had crime explode. Businesses fled. They're doing that now for the same reasons. So you have this nexus between drugs, crime and a loss of business, a loss of opportunity. And that just puts everyone in a downward spiral.

Well, if you remember right about the end of that crisis, Charlie Rangel and others got tough in Congress. Black Democrats, the Congressional Black Caucus. Yeah, it was the Congressional Black Caucus that actually led the crime bill. Absolutely. Yeah. And now, you know, we've never seen anything like that now. Even with someone who's considered, quote, a moderate like Hakeem Jeffries, who's now the minority leader. Yeah.

But in the Black Caucus now, you have a younger generation that's F the police, and the elder in the room is Maxine Waters. And I love Auntie Maxine, but I always use her as an example. She's defund the police, and she's always pushing the narrative. But she and her husband, the banker, live in Hancock Park.

For folks who don't know, Hancock Park is a very expensive, nice area of Los Angeles. Folks, thank you for tuning in today. Glad you joined the program. If you like it, make sure you tune in and catch our podcast-only segment. We're going to be continuing on with the Reverend Jared Maupin. And I have allowed her to sit here silently this entire time, Jamie Kleszak, but I'm actually going to make her speak intimately.

into the microphone when we get to the podcast segment. So you definitely want to go online, Substack, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you find your podcasts. Breaking Battlegrounds is there. Folks, see you on air next week. Welcome to the podcast-only segment of Breaking Battlegrounds.

In studio with us today, Chuck Warren out of studio. I'm Sam Stone. With me today, Jarrett Maupin, Reverend Jarrett Maupin, one of the black activist leaders of Phoenix for many, many years now. And also, as I dragged her onto the microphone, most unwillingly, as always, Jamie Kleshek, who is our technical guru and responsible for a lot of our video content and all that sort of thing.

She's actually really good on air. She just doesn't like being here. Nope, not terribly. Well, too bad. Too bad you worked for me today. Always. Well, you know, I'm just glad that I can say I'm sitting next to the next Kim Commando. You never know. No, she could be the next Kim Commando. She has the talent. And also for folks, you know, Jamie is, by the way, like the best –

Dinner, lunch, breakfast companion you can possibly get because she eats nothing.

Like she's the cheapest date in history, man. This is true. I mean, literally, we go to Capitol Grill and she orders a Caesar salad with no meat. I got a friend like that, Bella, and she's my shame date. She orders like a green salad and I'm looking at my chicken fried steak. I'm over there with the surf and turf combo and, you know, the mashed potatoes. And yeah, folks, you've seen me. You know it. I'm not lying.

You know, so look, it's but I do appreciate I appreciate the savings to my wallet, although she's welcome to eat. You know me. I'm never hungry at lunch. I know it's it's bizarre because I have to eat exactly on schedule every day. Like I really get it's Jamie can tell you from working with me. I get really grumpy when I don't get breakfast lunch on time. This is true.

So look, folks, understand and own your weaknesses. I just I know I know the deal. All right. Before we were on the on air segments, we were talking a little bit about some of the stuff that's going on. And I really always appreciate having you on the program here, Jarrett, because we can have really honest discussions that, frankly, I don't think are taking place across this country right now. We're not having discussions.

an open, honest dialogue about what's going on in our inner cities. Well, everyone is so, especially on the left, hypersensitive, looking for the outrage moment. Again, from breakfast,

Have we completely lost our ability to discuss race without without humor or insight or or the pains of the reality of what we're talking about? We have to have that conversation. And it's it's you know, it's scary that we're heading in a direction where we where, you know, there are some who are saying this is an off limits issue, you know.

I don't think – you're right 100 percent. It cannot be an off-limits issue, right? I mean otherwise you're never going to come to an understanding. I really felt like this country was on a very good track in 2008 when Obama was elected. And then I think it really went off – it started to go off the rails in 2012. I think because his campaign team – you know, right?

Correct me if you think I'm wrong here, but I think his campaign team saw he was in trouble.

and made a very cynical decision to make race a central part of that campaign to drive turnout. Well, I think grievance politics definitely does that. I think it unleashed grievance politics when you did that. Sure, absolutely. And once outside of the box, now it hasn't returned. And the legacy of that, and one of the biggest regrets I have over the Obama administration is that we didn't –

take actually the responsible you know nelson mandela ish approach to having what i think is a in in fact a sacred conversation that we need to have in this country about reconciliation everyone talks about you know um reparations and and the economic fixes to this and how do we spend our way out of out of uh the tragedy of what's happened to black americans and a lot of it folks um

A lot of it is to be handled in the conversations that we're having. You cannot buy reconciliation. It has to be earned and it has to be developed. And we do that by having candid conversations and learning about each other. I think that's really important, Jamie.

One of the things that we always did in the council office, I thought, more than the others. And, Jarrett, you interacted with us. For folks out there who don't know, Jamie was my deputy chief of staff. I was chief of staff to one of the Phoenix City Council members, Sal DeCiccio, for about five years. I know she probably got tired of my calls.

We all did it time to time. No, actually, Jared, no, you're not bad. You were not bad at all. You actually have a point when you call. You were civil and we could say the things you said on air. Some of those calls we could not repeat. The guy in Ahwatukee that we had who sent us like, what was it, like 50 things on a list of problems.

And then he sent it back to us like – and we had the departments go out and deal with all of this stuff. And it was – a lot of it was legit. Some of it was a little ridiculous. Some of it was really – I mean it was like a soda can lying by a bush and he expects the city to send a truck to go pick it up. I mean come on, folks. If you're walking by a bush and you see a soda can laying there, pick it up and throw it in the nearest trash can. Ask not what your city can do for you. It will take you less time to do that than send me the email. Mm-hmm.

But but, you know, but then he actually sent in he mixed that original list with a bunch of similar like like nearby locations and different ones. He told us he didn't do it and went to the newspaper and tried to throw us under the bus. And Jamie actually sussed him out. She Google mapped it out and realized he kept feeding us new problems and claiming we weren't solving them. Yeah.

That was frustrating. Your calls were not frustrating because we actually like it was action you could take and you're not unreasonable as folks are listening to you. I think this is one of the important things we need to start doing, though, is having dialogues and not be afraid to talk about race and not be afraid of. You know what? I don't know everything. I'm going to put my foot in my mouth more than once for the rest of my life. It's going to happen over and over and over and over and over. And it might happen today.

And that's okay. And no one should lose their life or their job or their career because of it.

I think we have to have, let me borrow from the left, safe spaces to have these conversations. Really, we should be able to have them anywhere. And they are critical to the quality of life, particularly of folks that are living in urban areas. We have to have these conversations. Housing, public safety, housing.

They're all tied to this property values. They're valuable conversations that we need to have that are going to uplift people when we when we have practical solutions. And and in the you know, some of the curses we've had on our society, generational residency in public housing, drug addiction, fatherless homes. There's there there are some real.

It's serious pressing. And you and I have talked about that, and I want to get to that. We'll use a little bit of time today, but I'd love to do a segment one time and just bring you in for an entire program where we talk about...

All of these programs, the federal programs, state programs, all these things are really now designed to create dependency on those programs and not to help people move off of them and move up. People used to talk about a hand up, but now it's a handout and that handout actually slaps you down if you try to move up. Right. Well, and they planted in people's minds the idea of it's heartbreaking. Sam, I was just at Arrow Terra, which is a public housing complex in the city.

16th and Roosevelt talking to people and you have the conversation where people are discussing you know inheriting their parents or their grandparents public housing unit um

Where is that even from? And that's how bad it is that now it's a matter of people feeling as though they're inheriting the welfare. And that's crippling. Yeah. I saw a video posted by a teacher the other day who went around asking her class what they wanted to do when they grow up. And one of the girls she got to said, oh, I want to have three different babies. And she said, what do you mean? She said, babies by three fathers.

She said, are you going to marry him? No. And she had it all planned out that – I assume following her mother or some other relative or example that if she just got pregnant by three different guys and had three different people's babies, then she'd get enough between child support and federal and local assistance that she could live on that for the rest of essentially her life. And that was her plan. This was –

You know, not I want to be an astronaut, not I want to do this. I want to be a welfare mother. Sure. Absolutely. I mean, how terrifying is it that we've reached a place where this is openly an objective? Well, when you look at academics and we're teaching young children, black and white in the inner city, that, you know, it's not having the right or wrong answer. It's your attempt at the answer that counts most.

and prioritizing what success looks like and glorifying the kind of success that isn't conducive to uplifting the community, you have a real problem. These kids are not aspiring to be police officers, teachers, scientists, doctors. They're aspiring to...

Be hustlers, you know, and let me tell you, I got to go circle back to the fentanyl and the drug dealing. I mean, that's what they see in the inner city. It's a real problem. They see, you know, I can get a sack of pills and sell them for $2 and pay 15 cents each for them. I mean, and we've seen the genius of what I'll call the under-economy or the black economy change.

And what I want to do, and I think we all want to get there, is to see people, not just black people, but the black people that are there, come out of the – I don't want to have blacks in the black market. I want blacks in the market. And the way we get there is to provide people real opportunities, not –

Not, you know, a shovel to make deeper the hole that they're in. You know, folks need to come out of that. And there are ways to do that. Sam, we've talked about that. Well, I mean, for instance, welfare right now is designed where if you go and get a job and start earning money, you're going to lose money.

Right. That's right. I mean, so why would you ever go get a job and start earning money when you're on when you have Section 8 housing, when you have welfare, when you have child support, when you have these things? Why would you risk going to get a job that will hurt you financially while it takes your time? Well, you can use the EBT program as an example. Single mom, let's say she is a single mom, three kids, whatever. Right.

Goes and gets a job, as you're saying. She's on EBT, food stamps, more commonly known. First paycheck comes, food stamps are cut off completely or cut down to $30 or $40 a month when we're in the middle of a – already in the middle of a recession. Right.

Recession, inflationary crisis. I laugh that, you know, we're talking candidly about race in the mainstream media, which we could call the white media, for lack of a better term. They keep saying there's an approaching recession. And I'm sitting here saying, well, it's it, Negroville. You know, we're about eight months into this recession down in Chocolate Town, you know. So, you know, I don't know what they're talking about. But when they cut the food stamps,

The the you know, the rising cost of groceries. Yeah. You know, it's it's enough to to to cause that family to have utility bill issues, rent issues, which which results in mom not being able to go back to work. So I'm not saying we've got to give her two years of of of EBT, but we should say, OK, you know what?

X amount of months in, you know, we're going to phase it down or whatever. That's how you lift someone. Well, and also, and I posed this idea before, but, you know, let them gain from their work. Sure. Right? So if you're on all these systems and you want to go get a job, which you should because it will help you in many, many ways. It will give you purpose. It will help give you form and function to your life that you can use to get ahead. Right.

But it can't be – if it's a negative financial – if it's financially negative for you, nobody is going to do that. We have to make it so that, hey, if you're on – like let's say I'm on welfare and I'm on housing support and all this stuff and I go get a job, I can at least keep, I don't know, 75 or 80 percent.

of that extra money I'm earning. So my benefits might drop by 10 or 20% of the money I'm earning, but I'm getting ahead by working. Give people an incentive. Am I wrong? No, I think you're totally right. Why would you go get a job where it just replaces even that welfare? It's a lot more work. Yeah, if I can sit on the couch and play video games and have the exact same financial circumstance that I do by going to work for 40 hours a week...

I'm going to sit on the couch and play video games. I mean, that's just the reality. And that's what a lot of people are choosing, right? A lot. And it really is a – to give you an intimate look at the crisis, when you go and you visit these houses –

Books don't make people smart, but they should be present because there's something to that. You need to learn from every format. Absolutely. And it's just – you see the video game addiction, the living in the – it's not –

you know, unjustified criticism. It's the Jordan Peterson nightmare, right? It's the dirty carpet. It's the poor living conditions, the video game addiction, the drug addiction, the substance abuse, you know, the basically rotten decision-making for yourself, but then becomes a trap because our system is designed to be a trap. Well, President Bush II said, it's the, what do you call the...

the soft bigotry of low expectations. And that's...

Gives me the chills to say that. But, you know, my challenge to, and I'd like to know what the two of you think coming from and being in city government, you know, proposals from the Reagan era and the first Bush era, we really ought to look at encouraging people to go to work. And then especially in Phoenix where the city owns a lot of these, we should consider selling people their housing, their public housing apartment.

You and I have talked about this before off air. Sure. We've had some long discussions about this, but I absolutely think that that would be a critical element because one of the biggest difficulties you have is getting folks who are in that position to start taking the mindset that they have their own personal responsibility for their living environment.

And when you haven't, you know, when eventually you're going to own it, just like you are with a mortgage. That's right. Boy, you watch someone with a mortgage take care of their house. That sucker is right on every detail because especially if they're getting near the end of their mortgage and they're, I mean, they want it perfect, right? Yeah.

Because this is yours. Well, and these are policy solutions that could work. I mean, I know there's things that have to be done for the city to sell its property, for example, to private individuals. But it can be done. We've seen it done. And you have B of A rolling out these programs. You have NACA. You have these groups that say, well, if you have a job –

And you've been at that job consistently. We will credit counsel you. You don't have to have perfect credit. We'll finance you. Owner carry. Come on, city. Let's get these things off the books. I'm glad you brought up the banking thing because I'm going to bring up a separate issue that I know you're aware of tied to this. Is the difficulty of getting a mortgage...

for a apartment or condo. Absolutely. That is one of the biggest barriers to me right now to the advancement of people with low incomes because you can't buy that place you're renting because you can't get a mortgage on it. You need truly 20% to 30% down in cash. You have to have great credit. It's an investor-designed service that excludes homeowners. Right.

Right. Absolutely. And I really think we needed to put real pressure on the banks to say you need to service mortgages in these locations for these types of units, just like you would for a standalone house. And there's really no justification for for for the difference there. I mean, if you look at at the way our housing market is expanding, even locally and again, just with a with an urban core focus, that is the housing. That is what we've that's right. It's all we have. We make it that we make it.

much more difficult for low-income people to get a loan on those than we do if they actually take a bigger loan on a standalone house, a single-family home. They can actually get an easier time, lower interest, all this stuff, easier approval on a loan that they may not be able to afford that's more expensive than one they absolutely could afford just because one is a single-family home and one is a condo or apartment. You mean to tell me that during all the time we had...

Nancy Pelosi, a speaker, and Maxine Waters is the chairwoman of the House Finance Committee, that the Democrats never thought to question the banks on why they have discriminatory loan levels and types? I will say this, even though the questions are often- I'm mystified. Yeah, I know. I wonder why that is. Wouldn't happen to do anything with campaign finance, would it? Well.

You know what I will say for this? Folks, this is the only time I promise you will ever, ever, ever hear me say this. This is the one thing I actually do praise AOC about, that she asks these questions. Now, she asks a lot of really stupid questions that show that she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. But she's actually asking a lot of these types of questions of the banks. And I think it's very legitimate. I mean, for one thing, in this day and age, and, you know,

You have to have have to have a debit card enabled bank account checking account. It's a requirement for modern society to participate fully in modern society. Right. Am I wrong about that? You need it. You need it.

We have systems. If your credit card company does not want you to overdraw your limit, you will not overdraw your limit. You can swipe that thing 10 times. The only thing that's going to happen is your card is going to get cut up because eventually they're going to get fed up and tell the merchant to chop it up because they don't want to deal with the bounced inquiries anymore.

There's no reason banks cannot limit the withdrawal on an online debit card to what amount is actually in that account available for withdrawal at that time. So there's no actual risk to them to losing money in checking accounts to people who have bad credit, not if you just manage it properly, right? That's right. And yet banks still make it really hard for people with bad credit

to get a checking account. Well, you know, there's great profit in overdraft fees and there's great profit in account maintenance fees. You know, I mean, it's even possible, quite frankly, for banks to operate without charging, you know, what would be that account maintenance or membership fee. It's possible. These are things that should be done. I think that I would like to see Congress pass a law that says if you are FDIC insured as a bank,

You must offer a standard free checking product with a debit card. You don't have to allow overdraws. You do not have to allow any sort of credit function on it. You don't have to do any of that. You can even limit them to not taking money out of other people's ATMs or whatever you want. I think we have a right to be banked.

Free accounts, you know, going in, nothing coming out. But where I'm going with that is without question, Sam, we bailed these people out, you know, a half dozen times in our lifetime. It's it's it's it's it's a matter of fairness. It absolutely is. And I'm glad you're here to talk about this today. We're going to wrap up here in just a moment, folks. Jarrett, we're going to have you obviously back on in the future. Talk some more about this stuff. But that's.

This is some of the stuff I folks I hope you you enjoyed this segment and you listen to it. But I especially for our listeners on the right. I hope you do take some time to think about some of this stuff, because I think it's really critical for us right now. If we're going to reach the broadest segment of society and retake the White House, retake the U.S. Senate, retake all these state governorships and all the seats we need. We have to be honest about the problems in our system and about the problems with capitalism that we have today.

And so when you have banks that are engaged in these predatory type practices, that really there's no good financial reason to do so. We should be front and center in opposing them. This isn't free. That's not being against the free market. That's simply insisting that if someone takes a government benefit, which FDIC insurance is, that there be a benefit to the people as well.

Right? That's right. And I think that's fair. I am always, you know, let's push for fairness in all of this stuff, folks. Great segment today, Jarrett Maupin. Reverend Jarrett Maupin, thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate you being on here. Jamie?

Hi, Sam. Thank you. Thank you. No, we got some good words from you. When you speak, it's great. You have good things to say every time. She doesn't eat as much, so she's not as full of hot air as we are. That's clearly what it is. We are we are we are.

I'm terrified to admit that that is a fair point. We're bloated with verbiage. That's true. All right, folks, that's enough bloated verbiage for this week. Breaking Battlegrounds will be coming back to you next week. Thank you for tuning in, as always. We appreciate it. Make sure to subscribe and get every single Breaking Battlegrounds episode live.

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