Lacy Cooper on Border Security, Public Safety, and Civil Rights
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Welcome to Broken Potholes with your hosts Sam Stone and Chuck Warren.

In the studio with us today, candidate for Attorney General for the state of Arizona, Lacey Cooper. Lacey, welcome to the program. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. You've had an interesting career. I have, yes. Interesting life, too. It says here, born in the oil fields of southeastern New Mexico. I've been there. That's a tough country. Yeah. Are you familiar with Hobbs, New Mexico? We call it Hobbs, USA there. Right. I am familiar with it. So, yeah, that's it.

You know, I like people who come from some of those different backgrounds. I think I'm a little tired of the people who grew up in the mansion downtown, went to Harvard, and are now running for their seventh office in 37 years. Well, that is not me. I can tell you that. No, no, that is definitely not you. You actually went to college on a national merit scholarship. I did. Yes, I got a full ride to Texas.

Texas A&M University. I had family in Texas from, you know, when we were raised in New Mexico there. So it was easy to go to Texas for school, still be around family, but get away from home. Thought I'd grow up a little bit. Not sure that I did, but, you know, made the trip out to Texas anyway. You probably watched some good football, drank some good beer. You know, at least I hope so. I was a bit of a teetotal.

I think I missed out on some of the college experiences. I was very committed to my academics. That's OK. I did enough for both of us. So after that, deputy county attorney in Gila County, former state and federal prosecutor, border security section chief in the U.S. attorney's office.

That's a resume we're not seeing enough of anymore running for these AG offices, which is an actual prosecutor's resume, an actual legal resume as opposed to a political one. And so I love that. But tell us a little bit what that experience was like, especially as the U.S. attorney overseeing the border. Yeah.

Yeah, I did not really understand what was happening at our southern border until I started in that position. Like many of your listeners, they're trying to pay attention to what's going on, but there's not a lot of real news and information about what happens at our border. And having spent now eight years doing border enforcement and then as the border security section chief,

I'm very familiar with what's really happening at the border. I tell people that I now know too much about who's coming across the border. And I also know a lot about how immigration policies actually affect the movement of people and drugs at our border. Very nice. Lacey, let me ask you this question. As you started that job and you've worked on the border in an official capacity for eight years, what were your...

ideas about immigration and the border situation when you started your job? And how did that change over eight years based on real life experience?

Well, I was born in New Mexico, but my family moved to Arizona when I was seven. So I've spent 33 years here in this state. I would say that for the, you know, until I went to the U.S. Attorney's Office, I had the perception that many do, which is that everyone crossing the border is just walking across freely, that they have access.

Absolutely not. Right.

A lot of folks who are coming across the border have serious felony convictions and they get deported and then they come back anyway. So it was a bit of a wake up call. How many folks coming across have prior convictions? How many people coming across are terrorist sympathizers? I mean, that was brand new information to me. And the other thing.

Right.

coyotes and human smugglers who are getting them here some of them human traffickers who are bringing people here for nefarious purposes like sex trafficking labor trafficking i i've even heard it said now that this part of the business for the cartels is starting to exceed their drug business it it has always been a lucrative business for the cartels and uh it they um

They're companions. The movement of humans and the movement of drugs, they go hand in hand. The cartels use them both in concert. They will send humans across at one point on the border so that they divert attention and law enforcement attention over to that point of the border so that they can move drugs in another place.

They will move humans through the same channels that they have created for moving drugs where they have their workers or scouts are up on mountaintops looking down at what's happening, directing the movement of drugs. Well, they'll use that same corridor to send humans through. So it is very lucrative. It is very lucrative. And right now,

You know, inflation is high around the country and inflation is high with people who want to get into the United States. They're paying higher and higher prices to get here. People are coming from farther away to come from farther away. You have to pay more money.

up to maybe $50,000 to get from across the ocean. But even folks who are coming from the Northern Triangle are paying more than they ever have. And a lot of folks are coming from South America and paying exorbitant prices. That's a ton of money. It's a ton of money. Yeah. Not only that, but talk about the price they pay.

Generally and frankly, almost consistently, the women pay a higher price than the men too because they're treated – well, they're raped. They're abused. I mean it's all of that, right? Right. Absolutely. Yeah, good point. It's not just the money but also what are you putting yourself through and your children through by becoming that long treacherous journey that folks don't always make it. You wrote a real clear policy article.

that that we've had people immigrating to this country illegally, that there's over 160 countries, different countries represented. Is that true? That many are getting that much of people coming through the border. That is just this year. As of when I wrote that article, we had that many different countries represented. It's a it is a shift.

From the eight years that I was working doing border enforcement, this is different. It's a different trend. It used to be almost exclusively Mexicans and folks from the Northern Triangle who were coming across our southern border. Now it is folks from Haiti, obviously, Chile, Ecuador, Brazil. Lots of folks from South America are coming across. It is different, and it means our policies need to be a little different as well.

Yeah. Question for you, Sam, let me ask a question here real quick. Um,

Lacey, what would you do as AG regarding the border? You're running for attorney general, the Republican nomination in Arizona. What as an AG can you do to stem this crisis? Yeah, great question. So the U.S. Supreme Court has told us that illegal immigration or immigration in general is a federal issue. So there's limitations on what the attorney general can do. But let me tell you a couple of practical things that the AGs can do. One is

to beef up the prosecution of drug crimes. So the cartels, yes, movement of persons is a lucrative business, but so is the movement of drugs. That's still...

gets them money in their pocketbook. And prosecuting drug crimes is something that the AG's office can do, should do. They are currently doing, but I would beef up that section because I have specific experience prosecuting and investigating cartel cases and doing wiretaps on cartels. I would ensure that that was a bigger focus of what the AG is doing to help take down the cartels. The second thing that AGs are doing around the country right now

It's to fight back against what the Biden administration is doing when they change a policy and they do it in a way that is arbitrary and capricious just to, I don't know, uh,

make progressives feel better about what's going on at the border, even though we all know that what's going on at the border is not a humanitarian. But the AGs are bringing suit against some of these changes in policies. And we have seen, at least with respect to the MPP program, the Remain in Mexico policy that was Trump's highly effective program,

The U.S. Supreme Court has said you're going to have to reinstate that program, the Biden-Harris administration, because it was very effective. Trump had done a very effective job, frankly, of separating the wolves from the sheep with a lot of his policies, hadn't he? In what way, Sam? Well, in other words, you're taking those people that you were talking about initially, the economic migrants from northern Mexico, that sort of thing.

And with the MPP program, Remain in Mexico, you really separated them out and were basically able to deal with them coming in in an orderly and legal fashion or whatever under – I question some of our laws there still. But –

But legal fashion where they're not the cover for the wolves getting across the border. They're not in with the coyotes running, making those runs. And I've talked to numerous Border Patrol over the years who said if you can do that, you make our job a lot easier. Yeah, that's an excellent way to put it. I'm glad that you explained it that way. Yes, that's exactly what happened is by having the Remain in Mexico program established.

People did not come to the United States border only to be put back in Mexico to wait until their bogus asylum claim could be, you know, found bogus. So if somebody knew ahead of time that they were going to have an asylum claim that would get denied and they had to wait in Mexico, they wouldn't show up.

They only showed up when they had a claim, a bogus claim, and they thought they were going to be released into the country under catch and release. So it did separate the valid claims from the invalid ones. Interesting. Interesting. I have to jump back on one thing you said. And pardon me if you can't say or can't talk about this, but what is the craziest thing you ever heard on one of those wiretaps? Oh. What is the thing that you just –

Blew you away. Oh, my goodness. I can't believe I just heard that happen or heard them say that. Well, we we the cartels are extremely violent, extremely violent. And we had a problem, which was that we would hear violence happens on the wire or we would hear threats of violence or plots of violence happen on the wire. And we couldn't let that lie.

So we would have to discuss with the Mexican authorities if the crime was going to be happening there or work quickly here in the United States to stop it from happening or warn the person who's about to be killed that they might need to seek shelter elsewhere. So that's that's the craziest is having to take action when somebody is about to be. So you're literally hearing them say, hey, we're going to go kill this guy right now. A hundred percent. Wow.

Wow. That's amazing. Chuck, we only have a few seconds here before we have to go to break. But when we come back, I want you to take it off the top. Talking with Lacey Cooper, candidate for attorney general for the state of Arizona. Fascinating background. Broken potholes. Coming right back. It's the new year and time for the new you. You've thought about running for political office, but don't know where to start. Before you start any planning, you need to secure your name online with a yourname.votewebdomain.com.

This means your constituents will know they are learning about the real you when they surf the web. Secure your domain from GoDaddy.com today. Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Make sure you catch us every Saturday on 960 AM, The Patriot in Phoenix. You can also get us on podcast the following Tuesday, Substack, Spotify, Apple, pretty much anywhere you find a podcast. Just look up Broken Potholes podcast. Google it. You'll get it.

We're in the studio today with Lacey Cooper, candidate for attorney general for the state of Arizona. And you've had an amazing background. We talked a little bit about the border. Is there any other policy that you think is absolutely critical for the next attorney general to focus on right away? Yeah. I would say that one thing that matters a lot to me is civil rights. There is actually a civil rights policy.

division in the Attorney General's office, but in their organizational structure. It's buried within some other divisions, and the Arizona law provides that it's supposed to be like a co-equal with their civil and criminal divisions. I know quite a bit about Arizona and our government. I actually didn't know we had a civil rights division in the AG's office. Yes, absolutely we do, and it's an important part of what the AG does to make sure that our

more vulnerable populations are taken care of and protected. So that's important to me and something that I would be focused on. I care a lot about our low-income children falling behind in schools. I think that our Civil Rights Division is a place that there could be a

a solution for kids. And I also would be advocating for my attorneys who work for me to go and work in the schools, work in the high schools and, you know, coach their mock trial teams or their moot court teams to help bring our next generation up and raise them and, you know, to be patriots. Love it. Chuck? Lacey, you're running for attorney general. One of your platforms issue is protect the police.

Currently in Phoenix, we have the DOJ investigating the Phoenix police. It seems to be a witch hunt or a scavenger hunt. Depends how you want to term it. What would you do as AG now?

to support law enforcement? And of course, you know, there are always bad actors in any field. But, you know, 98% plus are good folks. What would you do to protect law enforcement in Arizona? It's tragic what's happening at the Phoenix Police Department right now because, yes, there are bad apples in every profession. There are some in mine. We try to root them out and get, you know, just like I've met a

I've met a few law enforcement officers over my 15-year career. 3,000 Phoenix PD. They're not all going to be good people. I've never met a room of 3,000 people that were all great folks. Right. Talk about – I've never been in a church. We're all 3,000 folks. Right, right. We're all good folks. But most of our law enforcement officers are very brave people.

men and women who have put their lives on the line to serve their communities. They risk their, you know, putting their families without a husband or father or a wife or a mother. And we have a culture now that denigrates them and they should be supported. They should be lifted up just like when, you know, when I was a child, we were taught that police were great folks that we should be, you know,

happy to have in our communities. I still believe that to be true. So I think part of it is just spreading the message. But the poor Phoenix Police Department is having a difficult time even hiring right now, and there's lots of factors that contribute to that. But one of them, I have to think, is who would sign up for that job? It's already a difficult job, but it's more attractive when it is an admired person.

It's less attractive when people are putting it down as some enemies of their communities. Yeah, absolutely. So, for example, let's do an example. So the DOJ is investigating Phoenix right now. What is what as an attorney general of Arizona could you do to be involved with that or to protect the law enforcement from the federal government going on a wild goose chase? What are things that the attorney general could do in a situation like that?

I know the folks in the U.S. Attorney's Office here who would be involved in something like that, and they would never touch it. So it has to be folks from main justice in Washington, D.C., who come here and try to root out the evils in our community. I dislike that. And the reason I dislike that is I really, truly believe that the locus of power in our lives should start first with the individual and then the family, your community, your church, your

then the city, then the county, state, and only then the federal government and only when they have been given power specifically in the Constitution. So the fact that they are

you know, flying hundreds of miles to come and show up at our door and try to deal with our problems here. And I'm not saying that there aren't problems, you know, but we need to be taking care of that in-house. One of the reasons they're here, at least from what they've been saying so far, is the interaction between Phoenix Police, City of Phoenix in general, and our homeless population. The only thing they're pointing at that I can make any sense of at all is that at the start of COVID, we created a

open area where we allowed camping and tents. But we move them twice a week off of those spots so that they can be cleaned. Because, look, after 48 hours, these places are disgusting. I mean, it's feces, it's vomit, it's, you know, I mean, it's every sort of nastiness you can imagine.

And literally after 48 hours, three or four days, it is gross in these places. So we have them pick up their stuff. We have them moving down the sidewalk. We clean it out. They move back in. A lot of those folks will just abandon their stuff when that happens because they know they can go literally right across the street to St. Vincent de Paul. They're good-hearted, wonderful people who are not helping the problem a whole lot from my point of view. Yeah.

And they'll get all new stuff. I mean, they'll just go pick out of the bins new stuff that they want and they'll reset up about the only thing they keep is their tent. They're telling us that we have to maintain all those items. It's just garbage for the most part. And I mean, so this is the kind of craziness we're getting from the DOJ. How do we fight back against this? Because this doesn't make any sense.

Well, I think maybe pack up all those items and ship them to Washington, D.C. if they want us to preserve those items. I actually like that idea. It is so difficult to work with a homeless population. Absolutely it is. There's no good answers. We had an issue with folks who were camping out on federal property and the

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and in general –

I just keep advocating for – let's just enforce the law and let's actually enforce it on them and give them a choice. Go to treatment, get cleaned up, get off the street or go to jail because right now you're creating a lot of hassles, not just hassles but a lot of real negative impacts on the lives of citizens and frankly on those people in their situation who are homeless.

who want to improve, they're being blocked by all the money we spend on the dedicated 20% of homeless who have no interest in going anywhere. Right. We're with Lacey Cooper, Republican. She's running for Arizona Attorney General. You can learn more about her at LaceyCooper4AZ.com. Again, that's LaceyCooper4AZ.com. Lacey, why are you running for Attorney General? We got to go to break right now. We're going to bring that back when you come back.

It's the new year and time for a new you. You've thought about running for political office but don't know where to start. Before you start any planning, you need to secure your name online with a yourname.vote web domain. This means your constituents will know they are learning about the real you when they surf the web. Secure your domain from godaddy.com today.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. In the studio with us today, Lacey Cooper, candidate for attorney general of the state of Arizona. Chuck, right before we went to break, you had a question. Let's go back to it. Lacey, why are you running for attorney general? Why did you decide to get into this crazy world?

Well, as you've heard from my bio, I've been a public servant for the last 15 years. My entire career as a lawyer has been serving my community. And I've had some opportunities to have leadership roles in the offices that I've worked in. So it made sense to me that this would be an important next step to lead an office, to teach professionals,

folks the values and the ethics that I have been taught as a prosecutor for the last 15 years, and also to just ensure that the state of Arizona, Great State 48, continues to have conservative values that are enforced from, you know, as long as I can make sure that that happens. And as AG, you're actually the one, you have to look at the state constitution or state law and decide whether our lawmakers and everyone else are following it, right? Right.

So in many ways, the AG is the bulwark against some of this stuff Democrats are doing where they just really want to ignore the law and kind of create these new systems that have nothing to do with democracy or capitalism or any of this. They're really – they're changing election laws. They're changing how we fund things. We're going back towards an era where we're – government's giving away a lot of handouts.

And that's something I think maybe the next AG needs to be looking at, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say that there is a statute available that is very important for ensuring that local government and county does not just brazenly violate all of the state laws that our legislature passes. Now, I'm not in the business of making laws, but we have laws.

a branch of our government that does that. And when they do, our local and county governments should follow it. So there is a law available for a legislator to refer to the attorney general's office if they notice that a violation of law is happening by a government entity. And then the AG can investigate. And if found that, yes, in fact, they are violating a law and they have zero intention of changing that, then the AG can withhold funding.

So there is a power of the purse available as a consequence when our local and county governments decide that they don't want to follow the law. Do we need to be using that more right now or at least using the threat of that more? Because we see what's going on with COVID and frankly with the COVID monies.

There's a lot of stuff that these folks are doing that is not in line with state law, the state constitution or the executive orders of the governor. Yeah. No, we absolutely need to be using that statute more and withholding monies when folks are just –

violating the law without thinking that there's going to be any consequence. I mean, Phoenix and Tucson, it basically made a career out of that at this point. It's just ridiculous. Yeah, if you talk to the people in Tucson who are conservatives, they will absolutely agree with you about that. Yeah, I'm from Tucson. And, you know, granted, I grew up there. You root for the Wildcats. You love Tucson. And then you move to Phoenix and you're like, darn it. Darn it.

It's way better here. Did you convert? Are you a Sun Devils fan now? Well, no. That will never happen. Let's be honest. That's never happening. You've got standards. Well –

Yeah, I can't say that during football season. Well, I went to A&M for my undergrad and University of Texas for law school. So I'm a little schizophrenic with my college football support as well. I was in UT for – in Austin for a year. The first Saturday, first game day that I was there, I had no idea what was going on. I left my house and went to go to the grocery store. The grocery store was closed. Yeah.

It is totally different. It is totally different in Texas. Yeah. Some things are just really valued there. Yeah. Guns and football. Hook them horns. Lacey, you talk about sex trafficking. What as attorney general you would do about stemming the flow of sex trafficking and how bad is sex trafficking really besides what you see on social media, which is

You know, if you read social media, there's millions and millions and millions of sex trafficking in the United States annually. But how bad is the problem? What can the AG do to stem it, prevent it and prosecute it?

Yeah. Phoenix is a hub for child sex trafficking in particular. It is a major problem here. It's a large metropolitan area. Pimps who are, you know, taking children and trafficking them use Phoenix as a hub to move them out to other places to keep them separated from family, to keep them isolated. So it is a huge problem here. And it is something that the AG can tackle now.

not just with prosecution, but also with education to make sure that our communities know that this is happening and are keeping an eye out for it to help prevent it? Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk a little bit more about that when we come back, because I think that's such an enormous issue that we're facing today. Folks, Lacey Cooper, candidate for attorney general. Been a fascinating conversation so far. Stick around. Come back after the break. Broken Potholes coming right back.

The 2020 political field was intense, so don't get left behind in 2021. If you're running for political office, the first thing on your to-do list needs to be securing your name on the web with a yourname.vote web domain from GoDaddy.com. Get yours now. Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your hosts. I'm Sam Stone. On the line, Chuck Warren. In studio with us today, Lacey Cooper.

running for attorney general of the great state of Arizona. You can visit her website, LaceyCooper4AZ.com on Twitter, Instagram, at Lacey, L-A-C-Y. Let's make sure we get it right. No E in there. At LaceyCooper4AZ, again, F-O-R-A-Z. And

It says personal. I'm not sure what that is. Lacey-Cooper, which one is that? Lacey underscore Cooper is my personal Twitter account. That's what I put out my thoughts on. So if you want to hear what I personally think about stuff, yeah. Follow her on both. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's a great idea. I do the same kind of thing. I think that's very good. We're talking about something not so good, sex trafficking and particularly human trafficking. And Phoenix is, as you mentioned, a hub.

I don't think most people realize that Arizona most years leads the U.S. in kidnappings, although they're not kidnappings the way people in this country maybe think of them. They're these migrants who have been trafficked and detained and then often ransomed, right? I mean, this is – there is a scope to this problem that is so far beyond what most people understand today.

And it is a humanitarian crisis and we are feeding it with our border policy or Biden border policy is feeding it. Yeah, absolutely. When you create a culture where folks have to live in the shadows.

And they can't go or don't feel like they can go and report to law enforcement that they have been trafficked, kidnapped. They're being labor trafficked. So they're not able to get out of a debt that is owed and they are being abused. But they don't feel like they have the ability to go and tell law enforcement, which, by the way, I will just tell everyone that if you are a victim of a crime, even if you do not have status in the United States, you can go and report that to your local law enforcement. They're

options that they have for taking care of you. So please do not feel like that this myth is true. It should not be perpetuated. Folks should go and report. But it does create a situation where people can more easily be abused when you invite folks here. Do not give them status and just let them go into the United States. The thing that the Biden administration is doing recently, which is blowing my mind a little bit,

is that it used to be that they would tell folks that they're going to have to report for a court date, which if you had an asylum claim, that's what you want, right? You want to show up and see a judge and have that ruled on. Make your claim. But now they are just telling folks to report to their local ICE office.

when they get to their destination in the United States, wherever that might be. Exactly. Laughable. Who is, you know, I just said, go talk to law enforcement. It's difficult for folks to show up at a police department, much less an ICE office in the local town where they think- They're not going to go anywhere near that building. Of course not. And it's only when you show up there that you would potentially get a court date to tell you when you can come and make your claim. So they're creating a situation where folks can't even get the-

you know, ruling from a judge to get the status in the United States that they're craving or, you know, seeking. And someone with a legitimate claim should have that

opportunity to plead their case, right? Right. A hundred percent. And so if I were, you know, creating policy in Congress and I can, I can't do that, but I can advocate for it. We should have a system where folks can't hop over the fence and make an asylum claim. If you have a legitimate asylum claim, you can come to our front door, which is called a port of entry and make your claim or even better, uh,

Make your claim as a refugee, which is really just the flip side of the same coin, from your home country or from a safe third country. Think about the Haitian migrants who just flooded across the border. They didn't come from Haiti.

They came from Chile. They came from Brazil. They had resettled in other countries safely for about a decade and only now have decided to come to the United States. Why didn't they make a refugee claim from their, you know, from the country that they were living in safely? You know, I read a quote from one of them very specifically who said, you know, compared to Haiti, Chile was wonderful, but America is paradise. Right.

Well, it is. Yeah, I agree. I'm not disagreeing, but that is not an asylum claim. No, Lacey, isn't it amazing, though, that you have a segment of Americans who just think America is just this god-awful place? And you have all these people who are saying, I want to come to paradise. Right. I mean, as your job, as you worked with the border issues, did they give you a greater appreciation for this country?

Oh, 100%. We definitely live in the best country in the world. We do. And that's why folks are coming here. And it's also why when somebody naturalizes...

and they go through the process and do it right, those are some of the greatest Americans, some of the greatest patriots. They love this country. So I would do border enforcement, border crimes, prosecute immigration crimes all day, every day for eight years. And four days of a week, all that the courthouse saw was immigration enforcement. But the fifth day,

We did naturalization ceremonies. And it was so wonderful seeing these families who went through the process correctly. They dress in their Sunday best for this experience. They're waving American flags. And they're so thankful and blessed that they are able to be a part of this country. I love that contrast. There is something to be said for the folks who don't come here the right way and those that do. Meet someone from Mexico or South America who –

Right. Right.

Of course, the Biden-Harris administration, I think, has been pretty clear that their end goal is amnesty. So for all these folks who were able to flood across the border this year or since, you know, started really in November of last year, then they are thinking, gosh, I just have to get one foot in the United States and I'm going to be a U.S. citizen. Mm hmm.

they think that that's coming around the corner and there's reason for them to believe that that's true. But that is not the naturalization ceremony that I'm talking about. Yeah. Let me ask you a question about something from the past that based on your experience, you can tell me, because I've always thought this would be valuable to bring back. If you're familiar with the Bracero program from the seventies, which was essentially a guest worker program, which allowed people from Northern Mexico who wanted to remain as Mexican citizens to

to come here temporarily or as day workers, work in the fields, work on the farms, work in the plants, make some money, bring it home. Everyone I've talked to who was part of that program back in the day says, hey, that was super successful. Is that the kind of thing we could still look at doing that would ease some of the – I think people naturally want to let people in who want to work, who want to make their lives better. We all do. You just want to keep up the bad people. Right.

So shouldn't we be looking at programs like that or others that would help us separate those two groups out? Yes. And we do still have some versions of that, right? We have farm workers who cross the border every day to come and work in the fields in Yuma, which is such a great asset to our country. If folks haven't seen it, go down to Yuma at school bus pickup time.

Right. Go to the border and watch all the kids come across because they were all born here. They're all citizens. Yeah. They come across. Go to our school. Yeah. And a lot of folks have border crossing cards that let them go back and forth if they want to shop or that sort of thing. And that is – it's wonderful because some of these towns have a –

a sister town on the other side of the border. And, you know, for folks to freely move between the two is a wonderful thing as long as they've been properly vetted and are not a threat to our national security. So, yes, I think that we do need that. What I would propose is that the states need to decide –

Where do they need labor? Where do they need migrant labor? Is it in the farms? Is it in construction? Do we need some skilled labor, which right now in our state, we need skilled labor for construction. I've talked to folks. We need all of the above of what you just said. All of the above. Sometimes we have nursing shortages. That's happening for reasons that we could get into. Each state has different needs.

for their industries and for their labor market? Why is it that Washington, D.C. is deciding who should come in and what our state's needs are? We need to have a situation where people can actually assimilate here, get a job here, be productive here, be helping out in their communities and sending money home. Those are all wonderful things. But if somebody comes to a state where we don't need

you know, ABC labor. There's not a job for them here. Then there are costs on society. If there's a job, they're benefiting everybody themselves and everyone else. Yes. Yeah. Lacey. So Cal, it just came out. California is requiring COVID-19 vaccine vaccines for all eligible students. They're the first state to do this. So if you're going to public school,

you have to get a vaccine. Now I'm vaccinated. Sam's vaccinated. We're not anti-vax, but this seems like a real overreach. And if Arizona elects someone like a Katie Hobbs, I don't think there's anybody in this room that would be surprised that she would try to push such a move. You know, what would you do? Let's say if you have a Katie Hobbs as governor and you're the AG and she tries to require COVID-19 vaccines for all public school students in Arizona. Good question.

So we're lucky that we have a state legislature that recently passed a law that said that schools can't mandate vaccines for our student population. There's a case from 1905, it was way back, that says that the states should decide if there's a public health emergency whether vaccines are required or not, but they're always in.

exemptions for vaccines. And I like that the states are deciding because I don't live in California and I don't live in California for a reason because I don't want to be in an oppressive environment where they're making those decisions. I'd rather be in Arizona where we have a legislature who says no mandatory vaccines for our kids. That's a parental decision. Mm-hmm.

But there is a reality. I mean, this is not far-fetched that we could have a Katie Hobbs governor, and based on the legislature's narrow majority, this could flip. How would you handle that? Yeah, if they changed the law...

And I was AG. So it brings me back to I think the state gets to decide whether if we have a public health emergency, are vaccines required? In the 1905 case that I mentioned, children were actually able to get an exemption if their doctor said it wasn't good for them. So we should always have exemptions.

That's sort of the funny thing about this vaccine mandate. I think any time a doctor, you know, your doctor says, no, you shouldn't do this, I think the government needs to just shut up and sit down, right? Right. Yeah, absolutely. Because there are lots of reasons why somebody should, you know, would not want to get a vaccine. There are reasons why a person should not get a vaccine. And it doesn't necessarily affect public health for a few, you know, for certain people to decide to.

opt out. And this is, you know, the case. No other country around the world, the WHO, all these other institutions, they're not doing this to kids. They're not vaccinating their kids. They're not mask mandating their kids. Right. The science doesn't support it.

Right. Now, I like you. I got vaccinated. I think it's just important for people to know that I'm, you know, not an anti-vaccine. I got vaccinated when I was still at the U.S. Attorney's Office, and I thought that they were going to open up courts and have due process again. Boy, was I wrong. But I got vaccinated because I was theoretically going to be having interactions with federal inmates, some of whom had just come across the border and many of whom had COVID. So it made sense for me.

But I absolutely encourage folks to make a decision for themselves after consultation with a doctor. It should be an individualized decision and it should not be a political one. Absolutely. So let me ask you this question. You brought up a good point. We have at the border, we'll call it a crisis because that's what it is. We are letting people assimilate in America who are not tested for COVID, who have not had a vaccine.

At the very minimum, they're not being tested. Is there anything as an AG that you can do about that, people who are trying to come across the Arizona border? Well, interestingly, Mark Brnovich filed suit recently and cited equal protection under the laws to fight back against Biden's OSHA vaccine, citing that you're forcing Americans to get vaccinated, but you aren't forcing folks who are coming across the border illegally to get vaccinated. Right.

But I think it's going to be a governor decision what to do with the public health emergency. Tells you how important that upcoming governor's race and the upcoming AG's race. Catch Lacey Cooper, LaceyCooper4AZ.com. Broken Potholes coming back for one last segment. Online only. Got to catch this one on the podcast, folks. Otherwise, we're back next week.

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Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your host Sam Stone and Chuck Warren. If you're listening to this, you're doing it on our podcast. Thank you for subscribing, download, tune in every week. We've had some fantastic guests. Chuck, I really liked Lacey Cooper this week. I thought she had good answers. And frankly, I think she's, you know, she's a prosecutor with the right kind of background for that office. Well, you know, the one thing I, we've had some guests on, Lacey being one.

There are some really just fine, brilliant, quality people running for office. And it's always a mystery a lot of times, those who get elected and those who don't. Arizona would not be a disservice with her as attorney general. I think she's bright. She has real views.

She has real world experience. I still, you know, the AG is limited what they can do at the border because unfortunately, and probably a lot of our listeners, there's just only so much you can do on the state level on illegal immigration. I think they wanted to do more, but you're limited. You can go after sex traffic and you can go after drugs, but you can't go after the people. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a limited factor, which I think much of our audience and many voters just don't recognize. They just think whoever's in office can wave a magic wand or make a decision and it all gets better. And the great thing about our country, we have rules and people are given roles and they're divided on what your role is. And this is something that, you know, if I was running for Congress,

in Arizona, this would be my number one issue. It's a problem. And you and I are not anti-immigrants. I would be for, I would, I am personally for expanding that amount of legal immigrants we got in this country, but you have to do this the right way and do it, do it right because you're assimilating to a country that's not based on race or religion. We're based on principles. And unless you, and unless you understand those principles and how we operate,

You're not going to be a productive member of society. Well, and that's why we have the USCIS civics exam that they pass as part of that process, right? To give them a basic knowledge of how America was built and how it works. But, you know, I want to touch on something else she brought up there, which is all these asylum claims. Right. Because looking at them, the number one claim is that I am fleeing drug gang violence. I am fleeing gang violence in my home country, wherever that may be.

There is no country on earth that has a higher murder rate than Chicago. I mean, literally. So what are we doing? This is where I get a little upset because Democrats will say, well, if you don't just let all these people in, you're being heartless, you're cold. Look, we got problems here we need to fix. One of those is what's going on in our inner cities with violence, particularly in the last year and a half where it's just exploded.

But we got to stop pretending that the rest of the world is a garbage dump, too. Because a lot of these countries are pretty nice, quite frankly. Well, they are. But, you know, as a person who... They're not the U.S. No, and they never will be the U.S. And I hate to break that to everybody. You know, I was having this conversation with an acquaintance who's quite liberal. And the one thing we really agreed on is that Americans are very individualistic and you're not going to see all these great big companies...

The Googles, whatever. When you think of all the amazing companies in the world that seem to originate from the U.S. or ideas from the U.S., we're just always going to be that leader. We're just different. As a person who has spent a lot of time in Chile, it's a beautiful country, wonderful people, and it is not the United States. I

I mean, I have a lot of sympathy for those who are trying to come here, but I also understand there's a reason we have rules. There's a reason we have caps. There's a reason we have processes and they may not always make sense, but they're there for a reason. And it is an absenteeism.

failure by this administration for not handling this differently. And I'm just sick and tired of them always blaming Donald Trump. Yeah, no kidding. This just would not be happening under Donald Trump. You may not like how he did it, but it certainly would not be happening. Well, look, the Democrats spent eight years of Obama blaming George Bush. Now everything's Trump's fault. I mean, it's never their fault if you listen to them. I mean, this administration is so bad. I really miss Obama. Yeah.

Yeah, me too. I mean, that's where we're at right now, right? I mean, even he came out yesterday very forcefully saying we can't have open borders. I don't know if you saw that. I did see that. Yeah. No, and that actually – Really forceful. Yeah, he was forceful. And frankly, I mean, he's said that before, that he's been consistent about that. This administration has just fallen down completely. Yeah.

I just really don't think he likes Joe Biden. I think the memes are all true. I mean, I think he tolerates them. But, you know, I mean, that was a real slap in the face. And what's amazing is how much attention the press did not give it.

Now, if he had said the Republicans are beating people with whips, that would have been covered all day. But him saying we can't have open borders is quickly ignored. I mean, it's the front page story today. This is the liberal media in this country. Contradiction of what's happening is there. You can't even trust them, folks. If you're relying on CNN and The New York Times for your news, you're not listening. You're not watching the news. I mean, that's all there is to it. They only cover the things that help their side.

Who do we have on our show next week? Next week, we have Jim Lehman. He's running for U.S. Senate in Arizona. Exciting. Well, that will be an interesting conversation on the border. Now, one last thing before we go, Chuck, because I got to bring this up. How the heck do the Rays, the Tampa Bay Rays, do this?

You and I were just talking about that. I was trying to find actually the stat I sent you on the phone. What was it? They won the AAA. They won literally every level, A-ball, AA, AAA, International League, all the way to the major leagues. Their teams finished first. It's one of the more incredible sports stories that does not get cut.

covered enough. And I'm just wondering when the day is that's going to change. I mean, because it's truly one of the great organizations. You and I have talked about this, but I want to know what they do. I want to know. Every team has advanced metrics. Every team has essentially the same tools. And yet they produce more managers, general managers, coaches, scouts, and players of every type than everyone else. Well, here it is right here. They have the best record in the American League this year.

The triple A had the best record plus the champs, the double A team lost by one in the deciding game of the championship. All the other levels won the championship. I, I, it's, it's one of the great, well, it's not one of the great sports stories. It's one of the great management stories. Yeah. America.

Maybe maybe they need to be running the border. Look, I'm about ready to put them in charge of the entire government. It's efficient, that's for sure. Not only that, but we'd actually bring people up who can who can, you know, get the job done. They I don't I don't understand how they do it. I really don't. Because you look at the money they're being outspent like, what, 10 to one by the Yankees.

Absolutely. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. Well, Sam, great show. She was a wonderful guest. It will be interesting to see if she's able to raise the money because I think if she can, she's a force in that Attorney General race. Yeah, I totally agree. If she can, it's going to be a good race. You've got some good candidates, really a quality field of candidates. And folks, if you're here in Arizona or across the country, dig in on these races.

I know the Senate and Congress and these things, the governors, they take up all the intention. Dig in on your AG. Dig in on all your lower state seats. Dig in on your local seats because this is where the rubber meets the road. Well, great show. Thanks, everybody. Have a great weekend. Folks, tune in next week. Broken Potholes.

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