Matt Lewis on how Trump Changed Politics and Media
45:05 Share

Welcome to Broken Potholes with your host Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. We have a fantastic interview lined up for today. Matt Lewis, senior columnist at the Daily Beast and author of Too Dumb to Fail, and apparently we're actually not, How the GOP Betrayed the Reagan Revolution to Win Elections and How It Can Reclaim Its Conservative Roots, will be our guest today.

Matt's work has appeared in outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, Daily Beast, GQ, The Washington Post, Politico, Telegraph, The Independent, The Guardian. If you're a fan of news, you've seen this guy's work somewhere because he does fantastic, fantastic work. Matt Lewis, welcome to the program. Hey, good to talk with you. Matt, let's tell our audience first, how did you get from point A, a political hack, to

to point B, a columnist, a journalist, a gab about around town. What was the process? What was the journey here? Oh, I snuck into it. I came through the back door. If I had tried to...

If I had tried to actually apply at the Washington Post to be the next George Will, they would have laughed me out of the room. But luckily, the blogosphere happened around the time that I was trying to make this transition from being a campaign guy to being a writer, to instead of being in politics, to writing about it. And so that was really my bridge. I started blogging on a campaign around the time that Howard Dean made that kind

kind of a thing. And I segued into writing about campaigns and blogging about campaigns and then eventually, you know, snuck completely into being a columnist. So it took a while and it, you know, started doing it for free and eventually made the transition. It's amazing how many people don't realize that when you really have a passion for something, you have to start by doing it for free.

It's so true. I mean, I mean, I see this all the time on campaigns, you know, it's or any work. It's just, you know, they want to start off with this huge salary. They don't understand, you know, paying your dues. Yeah.

Absolutely. And, you know, I started off doing an internship. I think that's kind of the modern day apprenticeship is to do an internship. Mine had a stipend, but a lot of them pay nothing. And I could tell you, I worked at the Daily Caller for six years, you know, Tucker Carlson, the website that Tucker Carlson co-founded. And

A lot of times the young people we hired were people who interned at the Daily Caller for free and then never left. They just kept coming to the office and hanging around. And eventually we're like, I guess, you know, a job would come open. And instead of like looking at resumes, you know, bringing calling in people to have interviews, it was like, well, give it to Bob. He's here. Bob's been showing up every day. You know, he hasn't he hasn't done anything crazy yet.

He hasn't embarrassed us yet. We just got a new office here in Arizona, and the ladies here have been doing the interior decorating. I just know furniture keeps showing up. There's more Coke and water in the refrigerator, and now they just don't leave. You just go there 24-7. And some really, really funky artwork courtesy of Chuck. Yes. No, that's me. It's strange, man. I don't know what is up with the Trump head as the Statue of Liberty, but it freaks me out.

Matt, what is the, what, as you've gone through this journey to where you are today, what are some things that have surprised you about it? What have you learned? Oh,

Oh, I mean, I've learned a ton of different things, but one of the things is to never stop learning. It's constantly a game of adjustments and of adapting and overcoming. And it's sort of like, you know, like a baseball player who might have to change with the times and change your batting stance, tinker with your batting stance, play, you know,

pitchers figure out how to pitch to you you have to adjust that's how i've done with my career it's a constant game of adjustment um and sometimes that could be uh the technology that changes you know like i mentioned the blogosphere the rise of twitter um that could be an opportunity for you if you're a young person who who is an early adopter or it could be a detriment to you um

It just changes everything that you grew up with or that you learned. And then I would say, for me...

Donald Trump clearly changed everything. It changed everything for me. But I've been able to adapt and I think stay relevant and continue to contribute. So the main thing that's changed is everything. And if you want to make it, you have to change too. Well, dear audience, two things you need to know. One, he used a baseball reference. And as we are all Diamondbacks fans, he's an Orioles fan, so we're all used to misery. Right.

And then second of all, and Matt, let's talk about this. Matt is what, Sam and I were talking this earlier, and we feel this way sometimes. He's sort of in no man's land. Matt is an ideological conservative who never fell on the Trump parade.

He is a true conservative. I would say a Reagan or classic Republican. He's a classic Republican. And I think that's been an interesting, as your friend who watches your career, I have been interested at your dance at it because, you know, I bet sometimes you feel like you could put all of your like-minded friends

political friends in a Denny's restaurant, and that pretty much covers it all. Denny's has pretty high capacity. Yeah, it's true. Anyway, Matt, is that a fair assessment? Tell me about that. This is maybe the size, actually, of our coalition. No, it was weird, right? Because I think what happened is that the...

The paradigm shifted. I mean, I was a I was used to being a conservative who was against the establishment and against because, see, the establishment used to be right. You know, the stereotype was like country club Republicans, Rockefeller Republicans. And so I was like a conservative and I was against the liberal establishment and I was pretty conservative.

And then, of course, there's been this reordering and this shifting where that is no longer really the main cleavage on the right. And so, in fact, now things that used to be considered cleavage

you know, orthodox conservative ideological positions now actually may make you part of the establishment because that's just how things have changed. And so, yeah, it's been tough for me. It's been a period of like, what happened? Why? Why are people that I used to agree with? Why are we now disagreeing? And I feel like, you know, as Reagan said, I didn't leave

the party left me. But I try to be introspective and wrestle with is that true? And in some cases it is, and in some cases it's not. And then there's something of an identity crisis, too. I mean, you know, I don't

primarily define myself by virtue of my politics. I mean, that's one aspect of me, but I don't think it's the defining feature of me. But what we do, to a certain degree, if you're heavily involved in politics, it's certainly part of how you see yourself. And it's been a challenge. Matt, let me... So, dear audience, Matt is a churchgoer. He's a man of faith. And your faith and your family are the most important things in your life, Matt. Um...

But this journey is a match almost like a faith crisis, right? You have an identity tied to it. This is what I believe since I was a teenage college Republican.

And all of a sudden that changes and you're like, well, I still think these principles are right. And that's a hard juggling act. And I think for you, the one benefit you have is that you do have such this wonderful family support. You have this great wife and kids and you have your faith.

But other people, and this is one thing I really see that bothers me about the left, is their religion is government and bureaucracy. I mean, that is their religion. And so, you know, it's their faith crisis is, you know, if I don't get H.R. 1 passed,

We're all going to hell. And for too many people on both sides of the aisle, that's the truth. Well, that's right. And it's in our side as well. And they would, you know, there's many on our activists who would not say that's true, but it is. I mean, they base all of their identity on this. And so if something doesn't pass and there must be evil people stopping this. And I would I would add before Matt, I.

heading back to you on this, but I would add that this is at the root of the dysfunction in our country right now is that so many people are making politics central to our lives. All of us on this program work in politics in one fashion or another, but this is not the central portion of my life. Not mine.

I have plenty of ways to connect with other people. - I mean, the Diamondbacks caused me to have a faith crisis, but yeah, it's not the central thing in my life. - Yeah, that's becoming a serious issue for me as well.

Anyway, Matt, what have you seen? So we're with Matt Lewis today, a columnist for The Daily Beast. He's a contributor on MSNBC. Before that, CNN wrote the book Too Dumb to Fail. He sort of saw where the Republican Party was going. What has surprised you about the Republican Party and our activists? And what has surprised you about the Democrat Party and their activists the last four years?

Well, you know, and I'm sort of an equal opportunity critic. That's why I asked the question. Yeah, but I mean, I have to say that I continue to be surprised by the degree to which Republicans basically became a cult for Donald Trump.

That surprised me. And it's been I've been surprised for five years. I was surprised that there was an insurrection. I think it actually was a dispute over whether that's the appropriate nomenclature or term. I am disappointed. I am. I am super disappointed in conservatives and Republicans and even in a lot of my fellow Christians that have followed this guy.

off a cliff. I was surprised after the Access Hollywood video came out that they still voted for Donald Trump. I mean, it's just constant surprise for four or five years. With Democrats, I was actually...

The thing that comes to mind is a pleasant surprise, to be honest with you. And the pleasant surprise is that I thought that the sort of crazy lefties like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had so much power within the party.

And that that that they would essentially, you know, I thought that Bernie Sanders was going to be the nominee after he won, you know, after like Joe Biden came in fifth place in New Hampshire and Bernie won, like, you know, New Hampshire. And I was really surprised at how the African-American community in South Carolina.

really coalesced around Joe Biden and I think saved that party from going off the deep end the way that the Republican Party went off the deep end. Those are the two big things I would say. You know, Matt, I kind of got to disagree with you on that because I think you're talking about a break between the party's elected officials who have gone off that deep end and some of the base of the party that they are currently leaving behind

with this sort of social justice warrior driven agenda? It could be. I mean, there is no doubt that there is crazy stuff on the left. I was just surprised that the party, the Democratic Party, was able to stand up to their

their base when it mattered and say, no, it stops here. You're not taking over, you know, at least for now. So what? So you're pleasant. But the Republican Party. So in summation, your pleasant surprise was that they didn't go over the cliff with the crazy AOC stuff, that the establishment stepped up. And that's not what you feel has happened in our party. We're with Matt Lewis. This is Broken Potholes. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back to keep on this conversation. 2020 sure was a fun political year, wasn't it?

Well, if you're up for the challenge of taking on the political field in 2022, then you can get a head start on all your opponents by going to GoDaddy.com and securing a .vote web address with your first and last name. Get started today before any of your competitors do.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your host Sam Stone and Chuck Warren. On the line with us today from the Daily Beast, Matt Lewis. And Chuck, as we were heading to break, we were talking about sort of the polarization of both parties and everything that's been going on in this country, driving both the Trump phenomenon, driving the AOC Bernie phenomenon. And I got to say, I think a lot of this is driven by Twitter, right?

Because that is, in a lot of ways, how the media gets its news these days. And what you see on Twitter today is what's in the press tomorrow. And I think you look at that and then you look at the fact that 20 Pew just came out with a poll. Twenty nine percent of Americans have trust in our media. Lowest in the world. I mean, Brazil has 54 percent. Yeah.

I don't know what the number is in China, but I mean... Matt, what do you see as a columnist, as you're on these shows? You know, I think this is... We talked about Donald Trump and...

the avid support for him, I think this plays a bigger role than the press ever wants to admit. I mean, we could sit here for five hours and talk about countless examples where they've made an accusation and turn out to be false. The most recent one is he cleared out Lafayette Park for a photo op. And it was just, you know, the inspector general just said that's just not true. What are your thoughts on that? I have a lot of thoughts. Um,

Yeah, I think this is – I think the media has in many ways sacrificed their forfeited, their trust in moral authority.

And I think that's super dangerous because then a demagogue can talk about fake news and say, you can't believe anything. Nothing's true. It leads to a sort of cultural, moral, sort of relevant, kind of a postmodern, like, hey, man, it's your truth.

There is no final arbiter of fact, right? We're not just disagreeing about opinion. We're disagreeing about what the actual facts are. And again, I think part of that is that the media has abdicated their role as being kind of honest brokers. I mean, everybody makes mistakes. Sure, absolutely. That happens, but I think that it's really crossed the line. Yeah.

Well, I'll give you an example. And this has been happening a long time, right? There's been liberal media and all that. There's been sort of, I don't know, salacious content, if it bleeds, it leads. Like, that stuff has been happening a long time. But I think Trump, in a way, broke the media even more. They tried to get even with him, and they ended up, you know, I think, getting down in the mud. Well, two things here. I think if I was a publisher of a newspaper, I would—columnists, yes—

But reporters, I would not allow them to have Twitter or social media. I mean, you can just simply go and know exactly where someone is ideologically if they're a reporter on Twitter. I mean, God bless them. They can't hold their mouth. I mean, it's funny. We have an NBA writer in Salt Lake. She's fantastic. I love her writing on the NBA. And the crap she puts out politically, and she gets in fights with people all the time. It's just like...

You know that's not your job, right? And I'm sure your employer doesn't appreciate you're ticking these people off because she's spouting whatever she's spouting. And, you know, for example, this is something that I've really – all the stuff that's bugged me about the press. The one thing is about COVID and its origins and the lab leak. The fact that they just didn't say –

If you're an investigative journalist, we need to look at all the options and rule them out. So if I go and Matt, if I go, you and I go to Mayo tomorrow, Mayo Hospital, what? And we have some illness. They put on a board a hundred things and then they go one by one, start eliminating them. But there's nothing that's not on the table.

And because Trump said it and because they said he was racist and so forth, they never investigated something that there's a real likelihood this originated from a lab. They went way further. They took the the tainted meat theory and said, if you didn't subscribe to that, which, frankly, at its base is far more racist than the idea that a virus leaked from a lab.

They said you were racist for asking if a virus leaked from a lab. That is a really hefty accusation. So the question goes, you said Trump sort of broke the press. Can they be fixed again? Or is if you're a young, you know, activist, just say, I'm going to go. I'm going to go become a reporter. I'm just going to push an agenda. Is that what we're sort of at now for a while?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't see it. I don't see this getting fixed anytime soon because all the incentives are perverse. Well, and all the J schools are. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. There's that. Yeah, there's that, too. But I just there is I don't see any incentive in changing things. And, you know, like the way that cable news is now, too. I mean, there are some exceptions, but.

By and large, I mean, you pick your team. You're either a right-wing channel or a left-wing channel. And that's sort of understood. You're going to play to your base, and you're going to try to get ratings and clicks and controversy. And that's the business model. And the business model is not healthy for society, but...

I think in the long run, it's actually not healthy for the outlets either, but in the short term, which is what they care about, that's the game to play. I got to tell you, Matt, I kind of disagree with their analysis of the market at this point, where I really believe if a cable news channel came along that was CNN in the 80s, that was just, we're going to tell you what's going on around the world. Like a headline news? Yep, absolutely. I think people would be all over it.

I think they would have real ratings. I would think so, but what happened to Headline News? I mean, I don't know, but I remember it's sort of like MTV is like, we're going to quit playing videos, but we're going to have MTV2 that quits playing videos. And then the next thing you know, MTV2 is also playing...

real world, and MTV3 is playing videos, and I have to assume MTV's not stupid. There's a reason that happens, and it's because reality shows get better ratings. Is headline news still a thing? I don't know if it is. I don't know if it is. MTV has a wonderful show, Siesta Keys. If it's not, I assume... Sometimes people do things for other reasons, including their

Vanity projects like was it CBS that canceled like the Beverly Hillbillies and Mayberry RFD, even though they had great ratings, they canceled them because they weren't seen as cool and hip. But usually these businesses, I would assume, want to make money.

Well, of course, they have stockholders. I mean, that's the other part about it. And so some people would shoot back and say, well, you got NPR. I mean, I was listening to someone this morning that was – well, it was on your podcast with Katie, just saying she listened to NPR, but she just can't handle the wokeism on it anymore. It just drives her crazy. Possibly the most woke reporter in America is Yamiche Alcindor, who is the NPR White House reporter. If she was the White House –

spin doctor, it would be a more appropriate job for her than to be a publicly paid reporter covering that beat. Matt, let me ask you this question. As this has gone on the past five years, and I think your principles, your consistency, and we'll have to answer this when we get back from the break, so I want you to think about it. You've been very consistent in your beliefs, okay?

How has this rolled for you with your colleagues or fellow columnists or at the cable news networks and something? Because I look, for example, my favorite example is Bill Kristol. I mean, Bill Kristol is just a Democrat now, and I don't know why he even tries to pretend otherwise. Right. And it seems like this is a guy, all due respect, that's sort of the architect for the Iraq War.

I mean, you can make a real claim for it. And now he's just, you know, peace, hope, love and rainbows. So we're with Matt Lewis. You can find Matt at MattLewis.org. He's also contributed on MSNBC and the senior columnist at Daily Beast. We'll be back right after this break. Thanks. Thanks.

You know what they say, politics is just show business for ugly people. Well, that's not the case. So get your face on your official .vote campaign web address. Jokes are funny, politics are not. Get your .vote web address from 101domain.com or godaddy.com today.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your hosts Sam Stone and Chuck Warren. On the line with us today, Matt Lewis of The Daily Beast, also the author of Too Dumb to Fail. Fantastic book. For anyone who hasn't read it, I highly encourage you to grab Amazon.com or whatever, get a copy of that right away. It is worth reading even if you disagree with every darn word in it.

And Matt, there are a lot of people out there who have been your longtime friends that have been your ideological allies. And in this polarized world, a lot of those connections are fraying. How have you or have you been able to maintain a lot of those relationships with folks? You know, obviously, I think people can put aside their I think people should put aside their political differences, but too many people are not. They're allowing these things. Oh, yeah.

I don't think we should let politics, you know, interfere. You know, my mom drove people to the polls to vote. Didn't just vote for Trump, drove people to the polls to vote for Trump in 2016. My dad was a prison guard for 30 years in Hagerstown, Maryland. I live in West Virginia. And I go to, you know,

conservative evangelical church over here. It just doesn't come up. I haven't had any fights. I coached Little League this year. Did you win? Yeah, we were the best team. So you learned nothing from the Orioles is what you're saying. You took a Yankees model or something from that. Yes.

We haven't no fights, no disagreements. I really am. First of all, I've been blessed by that. But I also I try not to fight with people about politics because life's life's too short, you know.

Well, again, you have a perspective and a foundation most people don't have. And even among people that I've known in politics, like on Twitter, I don't really think I've lost any friends as far as I know. You never know, but as far as I know, I don't think I've lost any over this whole –

Well, it's funny you mention that. I haven't either. I know one person, but I haven't either. But I do – it's funny. I get DMs or text messages saying, I really like what you post, but I can't like it because of X, Y, Z, right? And that's pretty funny. It's just like – I have people whisper to me. It goes, I go from my news to your Facebook page, but I can't like anything because my board will see it. I mean it's a real interesting scenario now. Matt, going forward –

And let's take Trump out of this equation. What do conservatives need to focus on? And there's so many, but if you are all of a sudden made the party leader, what are the three or four things conservatives should really focus on, you feel, that's good for America? I mean, I think...

I would say two tracks. I mean, one track is I think conservatives need to actually develop a proactive, coherent philosophy. And it very well may be that that philosophy is more popular than the one I would prefer. But there should be – it should be coherent. And maybe it will be. Like maybe if someone like a Ron DeSantis is the nominee –

end up being one of the externalities over time. I also think, though, in the short term,

That conservatives should probably focus – look, I think the culture war stuff is important, and I think you were sort of talking about cancel culture just a second ago, right? Where your friends are afraid to publicly say things. That is a problem. But I think Republicans need to focus more also on –

substantive policy disagreements with Biden. And that could be things like, I mean, I remember when there was a $1.9 trillion stimulus and what he talked about it because we were all talking about Dr. Seuss, you know, we're getting ready to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, which I think is a huge mistake. It's an idea that Donald Trump invented when he negotiated with the Taliban and

is now pursuing, we're possibly going to abandon our interpreters, people who are allies who helped us in this war. And we're just going to, you know, completely withdraw. And if we didn't learn the lesson when Obama did that in Iraq and there was the rise of ISIS, like I think those are the kind of things that you would hope the Republican Party would stand against, but for a variety of reasons are not able to do that right now.

What is the economic policy going forward? I mean, I think we are quickly – we are coming in the party, it seems, of a working man. So it's funny the transition from country club Republicans to the working man Republicans. What do you see going forward on that? I mean, you're from a working man family. You're a 30-year prison guard dad. I mean, what do you see on that? It really needs to be fleshed out because, you know –

The problem now is that it's like we're for welfare as long as it's welfare for rural white people. That's the problem with the Republican Party now. It used to be that you could take more of like a principled, across-the-board stance of being for limited government, low taxes. I don't know what that's going to be, but there needs to be some coherent and I think respectable stance

principled position on spending. Well, Matt, we appreciate your time today. We'd love to have you back on the show to flesh these things out more. We're with Matt Lewis. You can find him at mattlewis.org. He has a fantastic podcast. I highly suggest you subscribe to it. He's also a contributor on MSNBC and a columnist at The Daily Beast, one of the great minds out there. Matt, thanks for joining us on Broken Potholes. Absolutely. Thank you.

2020 elections are over. Phew! Thank goodness for that. But don't sleep on your plans for 2022. Start today by securing your name and getting a dot vote web address with your first and last name. Visit GoDaddy today. You are my sunshine, my only sunshine.

Welcome back to Broken Potholes with your host, Sam Stone, Chuck Warren. Today in studio with us,

I got to say it, the irrepressible Kylie Kipper. And Mac the Man. Actually, not even a... I shouldn't say this. But she is the man. And today she's got the sunshine moment. Hopefully we can do a cough drop on that. Bring in the sunshine. We're with the lovely Mackenzie Semerat, who today has the sunshine moment. She has two sunshine moments that we'll be talking about.

And both having to do with sports. First one has to do with Tokyo, Tokyo Olympics coming up in end of July. This story is about the track star, Alison Felix, who is the most decorated female track and field athlete of all time, launched her own shoe company just two years after leaving Nike.

With Nike, she had a big fallout in 2019 because after she had her daughter, Felix revealed that Nike offered her a deal that would pay her 70% less than what she had been earning before she was pregnant.

And so because of that, she did not re-sign with Nike a year later. And she eventually signed with Gap's Athleta brand before branching out onto her own. And that is called the Seich One sneaker. It's S-A-Y-S-H. I believe it's Seich. And that sneaker will be sold for $150. And it's designed for and by women. And you can buy these at www.seich.com.

And it's basically what she said is when you see me run, know that I'm not running for medals. I'm running for change. And she's won six Olympic gold medals. And she's running for greater equity for each of us. And that meaning women. I'm running for women more than anything. I'm running toward a future where no woman or girl is ever told to know her place. So I really liked that story. Nice. And what's the other one?

The other one, going right into it. Devin Booker. So another sports story now that we're in the...

Playoffs this became relevant because Devin Booker is not only exciting on the court He's been doing some pretty neat things off the court as well and just in May he received the NBA Cares Community Assist Award and that was for his continual commitment to support youth and families throughout the greater Phoenix area through a starting five initiative and all five recipients received $100,000 through his initiative and those five

programs that he just awarded in May were the Arizona Autism United, Central Arizona Shelter Services, YMCA of Southern Arizona, The Gap Ministries, and Elevate Phoenix.

So that's pretty neat that not only is he an all-star on the court, he's doing some pretty neat things in the Phoenix area. He does a lot of great stuff. So do the Phoenix Suns. I don't think a lot of people are aware of how much work they do with the local YMCA organizations and the Boys and Girls Clubs. They're really active. A couple of years ago, I think they renewed, I think it was 50 basketball courts or built 50 basketball courts for organizations around the city to celebrate their 50th anniversary. Yeah.

They do a fantastic job here in the community. Well, and that's the one thing about sports, even if you're not a sports follower. So Arizona is blessed with Larry Fitzgerald and Devin Booker. Yes. They have come here. They have stayed. This is one reason why...

I would really love to see the Suns win besides being a fan. Devin Booker didn't complain. Didn't ever say, I'm going to leave town. He said, this is my home. Yeah. And he's made it his home. And you can tell that by the way he treats the community. I,

I don't have the sense Devin goes out and has 15 homes and leaves the minutes. This is done. Chris Paul does that. Other players do it and other teams. But people like Devin Booker, Larry Fitzgerald, and Salt Lake Donovan Mitchell have done the same thing. These people just say, this is here. This is my home.

I'm going to build the community I want to see. I don't think enough athletes recognize the long-term benefit and value they get from that level of loyalty. Obviously, you still want to see them get paid. You want to see the organization treat them right and try to compete in their situations. You know, I'm a big Boston fan. I grew up in Boston when Ray Bork left the Bruins. Everyone understood he needed that opportunity to go win a title at the end of a Hall of Fame career. You can understand that. But these guys jumping around...

getting together to form super teams, I think really takes away from the fans connection to their teams. I do too. Let's talk about the shoe situation. I mean, this is one of the benefits of social media now, you know, 10 years ago, she could not have done that. Now she can go, she can create a shoe. I mean, she knows what she needs and it's probably a fantastic product. Um,

You can also design these things with modern computer systems. These were million-dollar operations to design a few years ago. Now you can use software and do it at home. Mac, when you – so Mac, for our audience, played soccer at ASU, was a starter there. Did you see when you – because you had Nike – when you were there, they had Nike contract, then they had an Adidas contract. So you saw both worlds. How did the shoe companies treat –

female and male sports differently, if at all. Was there any difference?

It's hard to say. And take football. Take football the equation because football is the – Yeah, that's a different – Football got way more than everybody else. Yeah, because it's a 1,000-pound monster and it finances all the other sports, frankly. Yeah, that's a tough question because we didn't have a men's soccer team, so there wasn't really a direct correlation there between women and – How would you compare, like, to the baseball team, though? Because that would seem to be a fairly similar standing. Baseball, softball. From my interpretation at the time, it seemed like they got a lot more –

products, but I'm not positive on that. But they seem to always be a little bit more swagged out than everybody else. And you know, I think this, and I'm going to talk about this, we have Kip and Mac and Jamie here today, but this is the one thing I've noticed about women, okay? Women are not as prone to ask for something. And I'll give you an example. So I'm a major sponsor of the Men's Tennis Program at SU, right? I don't think I've said no ever to the Women's Tennis Program, and they're fantastic, but

But like one day the men's tennis program said, we need this software program that analyzes all of the shots. It's $15,000 a year. They do the shots. I bring the players in. We show you shots where you're missing it, where you should have done differently. I mean, it's a major thing, right? And like only five programs in the country have it and all the major pros have it, right? The women call and say, we need a couch.

And I think Matt gave him the credit card. We need to count. It was $1,200, right? And, you know, the men say, we need this. If we do this, we can feed all these players. And based on what they do, they're able to provide basically, it's like another scholarship and a half based on the rules, the women. We need seats. I mean, it's just such a different thing. And this is a program that's been to, like, over the last 20 years, I think, 50%.

15 or 16 NCAA tournament, but like we need a couch and I'm still laughing about it. Right. Cause they knew what I was writing and they came back and said a couch. And I think that is one thing. Yes, there is a bias with women and stuff, but sometimes it's asking, right. And it's, it's always a hemming and hawing or, or if they come to ask, uh,

It's very simple. There's no middle ground. It's not simple. It's either they ask for it or it's like, I would like $100,000 raise a year. I just started last week. I mean, it's two different worlds. There's never a middle appropriate ground on it. Well, Chuck, I would totally agree with you because I've hired a lot of people over the years, both on campaign things and in the office. And one of the things that I found...

Was that the guys have no hesitation at all coming up to you and going, hey, I've been here three months, six months, whatever it is. I'm ready for a raise.

And with respect to Jamie, who's in the studio with us today. Giggling quietly. Yeah, she is giggling because she knows the deal. And what I'm about to say here is that I've gone to her and been like, hey, I'm going to give you a raise. And she goes, I don't know that I actually deserve that right now. What's worse than that? She gave me an invoice after six weeks. She's supposed to get paid every two weeks. I had no idea. That is true. I have a story. So there's a startup company here in Phoenix area. It was like a wedding shop and they hired people.

13 girls and one male. And the guy said to every single one of them, I had anticipated to pay all of them X amount. I'm going to start at this amount. The only person to say I want more was the male. So the male was getting paid more than the 13 females because no one asked for a higher pay. Because they don't ask. Yeah. Right? No, I mean, and so I wonder sometimes we say that and men get blamed for it, but

If you don't ask, you don't know. I mean, I've had this conversation, I think, with most of you. If you don't tell me, I mean, Jamie and I had this conversation. She goes, we were talking. I go, how would I know? You don't tell me. I mean, you know, and we had a good friend of ours, Brad Butterworth got married a month ago. And his wife's vows were great. And it was said the following. I promise to remember you can't read my mind. Okay.

And like every woman in the world just needs to understand that. Right. Great starting point, please. Exactly. I kiss. I promised. I know you can't read my mind. And I just and everybody's there going off. And I just burst out laughing. I mean, I was totally disruptive because it's true. Right. Yes. Like Jamie.

You send me an invoice every two weeks, right? Kip now doesn't ask. She just buys. I'm going to buy this. Is this okay? I'm going to wait until he asks me what this charge is. An interesting news here today that was just fascinating I saw this morning is –

They found a dragon man fossil skull in China that tells a story of an unknown human ancestor. So for 85 years, the human skull laid in an abandoned well in northern China in a city called Harbin. I've been there. It's not very exciting. A farmer canceled the relic there in 1933 like an heirloom, treated it like an heirloom, so invading Japanese soldiers couldn't seize it as a war booty.

The farmer has been part of a labor crew who had unearthed it while digging foundations for a bridge over the river. So anyway, we got this skull. It's supposedly an ancestor somehow connected to us, but they're not sure it's human. Well, you know, one of the most interesting things I don't think, because I think politics have sort of overwhelmed everything between politics and sports. That's the only news Americans get these days. But

In anthropology, there have been some really massive changes coming. Yes. And people are learning about. So, I mean, the traditional idea that there were Homo sapiens and, you know, the cave people kind of thing in two branches has been thrown out completely. And we're now finding there are, you know, dozens potentially of human offshoot or similar ancestors that have come together. And we share all their DNA, right?

So it's a wild party. They had they were going to some some wild clubs, I guess. Let's talk a little bit more about Matt today. So I don't think I think what's what's happened sometimes with people who despise Trump is that.

I don't think the party's ideology is really much different than what it's been in the past. I think there's more of a populist thing I've seen as becoming more of an isolationist, which I'm definitely not an isolationist. But I am more. You and I disagree. You and I disagree on this issue. And we have both been within the party boundaries on that issue, and we're both still within the party boundaries on that issue. And I think that's... But, you know, it's... But he is right. And what I am concerned about is... I'm not concerned just about my...

I'm concerned about my country. We just seem to be unwilling to sit down and have a conversation, not always have disagreements, but try to understand where each other's coming from or what our point is. And I don't know how that changes. And I think – and I really do believe this. I think the lack –

or the steady decline of people going to church. I mean, you can say what you want about church, but church thought there's certain rules. There's a golden rule. We treat people with respect. And I think that has really disappeared for many. So there's no ground rules anymore. My ground rule is what makes me happy,

And if you don't believe in it, you're just wrong. And it's a very bad tradition we're starting. I think both church and the decline of civic institutions. I think one of the things Adam Smith noted when he first came to this country was Americans are –

At that time, we're deeply vested in civic institutions. The average American, if you go back to 1960 or so, was a member of three or four different organizations. Lions Club, Rotary. Lions, Elks, all those things. And those are great places where, look, you're there for other reasons. It's not about your divisions. It's about the things that unite you, the things you agree on, whether it's charity, whether it's community, all these things. With the decline of these institutions...

I think it leaves more and more room for polarization. And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing people who don't talk to each other. Republicans aren't talking to Democrats. Democrats aren't talking to Republicans. And then even within our party, you know, you see the thing like with Matt, where he's been, you know, I know he's maintained his personal relationships, but he's been isolated from a lot of the sort of mainstream Trump portion of the party.

Well, look, he got so fed up with that. They live in Alexandria, Virginia, which is basically the Beltway. And they just picked to move their family to West Virginia. So he's like two, two and a half hours outside D.C. And you have to go to D.C. because we go in about once a week for 24, 48 hours. Well, but they've set up home there. And it's been interesting. Like you said, he goes to evangelical church and we talked about everybody's a Trump supporter there. And he's like, you know.

Whatever. Well, great program. Lots of lots of stuff to sort through. Broken potholes will be coming back next week. Another fantastic guest. We'll try to get an interview with the Dragon Man. Kip, will you jump on that, please? Right away. We'll be back next week, folks. Broken potholes. Broken potholes.vote. Thanks. Running for office? You need a campaign website. Introducing the web address of the democratic process, .vote. So how do you purchase your .vote website?

visit www.yourname.vote. Type your website name, example www.johnsmith.vote. It's available. Add your web address to your cart and check out. Once checked out and have received confirmation, you may begin to create and utilize your website to connect and engage voters. To learn more, visit get.vote. Happy campaigning!