Michael Lieb on Solving the Housing Crisis
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Welcome to Breaking Battlegrounds. I'm your host, Sam Stone. My co-host, Chuck Warren, off in the air today. He does that quite frequently, leaves us in here all by ourselves, except we're not. We've got a full crew in the studio. And with us, our first guest today, Austin Smith. He is a fifth-generation Arizonan, which makes him far more of an Arizonan than just about anybody else who lives in this state.

I think the last time I heard 72 percent. We're a lot like Florida. I think 72 percent of our population has moved here after they were born, myself included. I'm about ready to call myself a native Arizonan because I've been here for 34 years. I don't know if that counts. You're grandfathered in. I'm grandfathered in? Okay, good. Good, good, good. Austin also, folks, you're going to love his background. He is running for the Arizona State Legislature, candidate for LD29.

He was, getting this right, director for Turning Point Action? Still am, yeah. Still are the director for Turning Point Action. Based right here in Phoenix. And they are doing fantastic work across this country, firing up young people. And folks, if you check this out on the podcast, you're going to see Austin. How old are you? I'm 26. 26. That's what we need right now. I got to tell you, I'm tired of these gray beards. Look like me. Haven't gotten anything done.

Yeah. It's kind of a problem, isn't it? Well, you know, I also run the Arizona Young Republicans, and so we have a lot of good support from the older, the old bulls, the old guard and stuff like that. And they may not be considered young Republicans, but they're young at heart. But at the same time, like we need this this new shot of energy. It's time for a fresh wave of Republicans across this country. I mean, the legislature, the halls of Congress, everything. You look at the ones that are getting stuff done like Ron DeSantis in Florida. Right. Right.

You look at the ones that are getting stuff done in Congress.

the ones that are really fighting the fight. I believe Madison Cawthorn has the record for a freshman introducing bills. But at least he's pushing it. Yeah, I know. Look, that's what you need, though. Democrats push everything all the time. And as Republicans, we sit around and play defense. And coming from turning point action, defense is not what you guys do. No way, no. Because if you're getting comfortable and complacent, that's what you start to lose. And that's kind of like,

What this happened on the right for so long like I feel like you know they had that malaise Jimmy Carter era and then Ronald Reagan came in and just dominated the conservative movement created a whole culture and then like after he left like I think Republicans kind of like were Ostriches put their heads in the sand and like just died off and then Donald Trump came and now look at it like the biggest event for every party in every state every year is their Lincoln Day dinner Yeah, right like I get it. I

But, man, we could really use somebody new to host a dinner for. Right. Right? I mean, look, I love Lincoln. I love Reagan. I love our history. But we do need new leaders who are willing to step up and take this on. So it's awesome to see guys like you in the race. Now –

Tell us a little bit about, first, tell people where they can find you if they want to follow your platform, but also tell us what you're here to fight for. Yeah. So guys, go to austinforarizona.com. Check out my website there. I've got my bio, several policy platform points that I'm really passionate about that we can get done at the legislature that we've got to start the ball moving now. Some of them are kind of long projects.

But we have to get the ball rolling now because I want to live in Arizona for the next two decades. And we can't beat California if we don't get these things done. And you can go to at AZAustinSmith. You can find me on different social medias, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. But I'm really passionate about after...

I've been involved in the grassroots here in Arizona for several years now since I was 18, 19 years old, 2014, starting in the midterms. Got pulled on in 2016 with Charlie Kirk when we started a new division, the Campus Leadership Project, when we moved Turning Point from

the suburbs of Chicago, Lamont to Mesa, Arizona, then Phoenix, Arizona. So, you know, I'm really passionate about saving the state. And that's what we've done here at Turning Point in Arizona. And that's why I'm running for the legislature now. I think that what happened in 2020 between the COVID lockdowns, the election, and how the state has kind of taken form over the last two or three years, I don't think we're at a crossroads anymore. I think we took a wrong turn a long way back.

Absolutely. And that's and that's why I'm running as I was like, you know, a lot of people will think, you know, Congress and the president's going to have all this say over our country on which they do. But the remedy for things like that is the states is the city councils is the board of supervisors. That's kind of like the last stop right there. So that's why I'm running. The legislature is going to be the only thing. God forbid we get Katie Hobbs as governor.

And I don't think that's going to happen. But we are going to need really strong constitutional conservatives in the legislature to stop somebody like Katie Hobbs. If she were, I don't think she's going to become governor. I can let that happen. But we are going to need good laws here in Arizona to stop the Biden regime the next two years with a really good legislature. So that's why I'm running. I'm passionate about election integrity, passionate about securing the border, our water future, abolishing the income tax.

You know, ending lockdowns and mandates forever, completely. No, no shutting down of businesses, churches. And I'm passionate about those type of things. See, and that's what's needed right now. And it's interesting because we're on the air, obviously, in Arizona and Florida. And I think you've seen two states that are kind of going in different directions in the last couple of election cycles. Right. Florida is getting more red. Yeah.

And a lot of that turn has come with young people and it's come with Hispanics really shifting their views because they're seeing an affirmative Republican Party that's taking action that benefits them. And we've been defensive here in Arizona and Democrats have made full advantage of that and they have made gains. And, you know, they talk about turning the state purple, turning it blue. I think we're on the verge. I believe, like you do, we're going to knock them back this year. I think it's going to be a big year for us.

But we have to get that message out. And we have to go full bore. You know, when Ron DeSantis, he won by a razor thin margin in Florida. Right. And then he governed and he was given the opportunity. Do I shut my state down completely or do I give the power to the people and say that's not it's not my role? I'm going to follow the science. And he's the most popular governor in America now. People love him. There's Democrats that have come over and said, oh, my gosh, this is amazing because they've never experienced that really strong conservative leadership. Same thing with Kristi Noem.

Governor Ducey, Ron DeSantis couldn't have been night and day difference in their decision making when it came to COVID. And people want bold, decisive leadership. They want somebody to be strong on these issues and go on on offense and really give it to the left. You and I know here in Arizona, we have a 31 to 29 majority in the House.

House doesn't always feel that way because three or four Republicans will split off and kill bad legislation or the Democrats will just drive the narrative of what's happening down there. And we need people in the conservative movement through this new, I call it the MAGA wave from 2016 to now, people rising up to run for city council, the legislature, board of supervisors, Congress, all those positions. We need that kind of bold leadership in every level of government to go to put the left kind of like we got them on. We got to get them on the ropes.

Our country is on the line. It's no more patty cake kind of things. Well, and I love what President Trump did. I love what he did in office. I love the MAGA movement in America first. And I think it's really important that we understand that needs to spread a lot beyond one person. Right. I mean, those were more about a different vision for America.

Than we have seen in a long time. Yeah. Putting our country, our states, our citizens first and not being apologetic about it anymore. Right. And that is a really important shift, I think. And it resonates with a huge portion of the voting populace. And you're right. DeSantis, I think he's going to win this reelect by a lot of margin. Yeah. Kristi Noem is fantastic. Yeah.

But when you have governors and when you have leaders who have been wishy-washy, who have caved to the media pressure, who have caved to Democrat narratives, they're not winning reelection. They're not getting back in office. And thank God it's time to move on. How the country looks now compared to, let's say, 2018 or 2016 is completely different.

We had good conservative leaders that we thought were good conservative leaders. And then they and they caved, they cracked, they folded like a cheap banquet chair. And that's too bad. But people people lost their jobs, their livelihoods. Their children have been cut out of school for years. They've been wearing masks forever. They were forced to do things that they didn't want to. People's lives were robbed from them. And leaders, where were some of our nation? I mean, China unleashed the world's greatest act of bioterrorism, in my opinion. Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. And.

The worst impulses came from some of our nation's leaders to lock down our churches, to lock down our schools, to regulate your business even more. And we had people that were – that are in like C-level positions of corporations running our states, and they shut them down. And that's just wrong. And people wake up to that. It's like are you going to shut down my school? Are you going to tell my kid he can't go to high school prom or play sports anymore? People are fed up with that.

And they bought those folks, quite frankly, with a giant bag of federal cash that is now harming every single person in America. But right here in Arizona, we have the highest inflation in the nation. Over 10 percent. I talked to a friend who has an apartment in Tempe and her rent went up four hundred dollars.

I'm like, that's unbelievable. And if you're a young person here living in Arizona, it's going to be tough. And that's one of the reasons why I'm running is to get some because my generation is going to have to pay for these decisions at the state capitol and at Congress. And so that's why I encourage if you're – especially if you're under the age of 30 and you meet the threshold to run for office, start now. City council, board of supervisors, get started.

Town council, school board, the state legislature, find something. Find something where you can be impactful because these decisions that are being made right now are going to affect us a decade, two decades from now. And you've got to have some skin in the game. And that's why I'm starting to run. No, that's a fantastic point. And, you know, look, I go back to 2010. In 2010, we had just come off Obama where he had the House. He had the Senate for two years. They passed Obamacare, which was a disaster and continues to be a disaster.

They solved a billing problem by creating an actual health care problem, which is just insane. But in 2010, Republicans told us, hey, if you get us back the House, we're going to stop this stuff. We got them back the House. They didn't stop this stuff. In 2012, 2014, they told us, well, you got to get us the Senate. So we got them the Senate. They didn't stop this stuff. 2018 or 2016, we get them the presidency and they're still caving. They're still caving. That cannot continue.

And, you know, for me, I think it's it's what happened in 2020 and what the Republican Party looks like now is completely different. Like you said, like it is totally we have different leadership now. The leadership in Arizona for the Republican Party is different. We're kind of like we've you and I know we've kind of been like in this.

Republican Party Civil War for a decade in Arizona now. And so, but we're kind of getting towards, yeah, we're kind of getting towards an end a little bit. You and I are both veterans of this. And, but we've seen the changes and all these changes that we were told that were going to be good for us sometimes didn't end up being good for us. Right. And that's why people are hungry for this new leadership. People that are going to put the left on the ropes are going to say what they're going to do. They're going to be bold. They're going to be unapologetic. They're not going to take any prisoners with the left. They're not going to make any backroom shady deals because people are onto it.

the information is so much easier now. Now you've got, you know, the media is coming out of the woodworks to say, oh, fact check this, fact check that. You know, this is disinformation. People are tired of it. And they think people, the voters are stupid. And some politicians do too. And like, they're going to be in for a rude awakening come 2022. Some Republicans and Democrats.

Absolutely they are. It is going to be – I think it is going to be an absolute bloodbath. A red – not red wave. You're talking a red tsunami. No. I think it's about to sweep this country because if you look at what's going on – and I want to get into this on the next segment. We're going to bring you back here for one more segment with us. But –

You look at what's going on again, DeSantis in Florida and that Florida legislature, they step out front on this bill that Democrats have branded don't say gay. But in fact, all it does is say that you can't push radicalized sex education on kids in elementary school and only through third grade. Folks, that is craziness. And we're going to talk more about it with Austin Smith when we come back. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone.

We are going to be having some Florida guests on in the near future, but since we just got up in Florida and we are based out of Arizona, we are a little Arizona-centric. That's a good thing this morning. We got some good guests on. First guest is Austin Smith, candidate for LD29. Young gentleman running for the Arizona legislature.

And look, I'm loving what you're saying here, Austin. I mean, I think this is what we need, right? We need this young energy. And fortunately, I got some other young people who are in the studio with us this morning. As most mornings, I've got the irrepressible Kylie Kipper, our producer. Hello, hello. Who finds all these great guests for us. Although, I've got to admit...

We actually lost one this morning, and we caught Austin on his way out of the studio from doing another show, and we hijacked him. Yeah. No, I'm glad you guys brought me on. This is great. I've had a blast. Our country, like we mentioned in the last segment, our country, not just our state, but our country took a wrong turn a long way back, and young people have got to get in front and turn this thing around or we're going to be in big trouble. Well, you know, the craziness, and maybe it's because I grew up in a different era, and sometimes it seems like

Every era has certain things imprinted on it from when they're young, right? But I grew up in an era where you unapologetically celebrated America. That was something that was really built into our culture. And then Democrats have hijacked that just like we hijacked you and turned you around and kept you in the studio. They have turned that around and turned it into an attack on this country, an attack on our values, an attack on all the things that have made this country great.

And what I don't understand is how we went from young people who wanted to break all the rules and not get pigeonholed by society into a society that's desperate to conform to whatever the left has decided today is the new narrative. And it absolutely blows my mind that we've gotten to this place where

And I with we have Kylie here. I also have will in studio who is helping me out on my campaign salutations and

So I'm going to start calling him Slacker Will because you can hear it in his voice, right? We got to get this guy moving. But Austin, as you're doing this, I really see a shift now coming in young folks that they're kind of reawakening to the fact that this is a great country. And you don't need to bow to all this craziness. You don't need to get into whatever the left is demanding of you today because that's a pretty miserable way to live where you're tiptoeing on eggshells all the time. Awesome.

And being conservative is the new counterculture. It's the new punk. It's the new outside thing. You're conservative on a college campus, or you're young and you're just conservative at all in high school. You're the outcast. You're the guys that are going against the mold. It's the new punk rock to be a conservative. It's cool to be conservative. It's punk with better clothing. Better clothing. We smell better. We're not like the left. We're not like the left. Don't shower. We actually are.

take care of ourselves. O' Say, Will, are you listening, Will? Absolutely. O' Okay. So, look, this is something I think has been coming for a long time, right?

And I'm wondering if you guys – because Kylie and Will, for those folks who don't know us here, they're not terribly political. They didn't come into this from a political perspective from a young age like you or I did, Austin. Yeah, I always think that growing up it was always very discreet. My parents never – they're both very conservative. They've never pushed anything on my brother and I. And so I personally – I came out of this being like, how did I go to public school –

And then still come out as a... When I finally got into politics was like, oh yeah, I am a conservative. You know, like when I was looking at both sides, I've worked on both sides of the aisle as well and just been like, I really don't agree with any of that. So I'm just wondering how...

That happened. Your first job was for a firm that works for candidates on both sides of the aisle. Yes. And in your experience with that was was an eye opener, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, because you just start thinking like, well, I really don't align with these clients. So it doesn't really want to make me work all that hard. I'm not going to you know, I don't want to go above and beyond for them.

I had great relationships. Because there's people who get into that business and then they have no moral compass. Yeah. I mean, I'm surprised they can find their way back to the parking lot after work. No, I think that's a big problem. And I think Democrats really use that system.

They use it to influence us here. When you get into the legislature, you're going to run into an organization you probably know of them well called the League of Cities and Towns. Right. Sounds very benign. And they come into the legislature and they'll tell carrying Mao. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, they are. They are left of Lenin. Yeah. No, I mean, there is no left that gets any further here in Arizona. They are so far left that when I dealt with them at the city of Phoenix, which is about as far left as you get.

in Arizona. Also, they're left of the city of Phoenix. They're doing things down at the legislature that they don't even admit to the cities they work for. And they do it by going to those Republicans, the squishy ones, the unreliable ones. They go to them and they say, look, we're going to make a big issue out of this. They do. They kill bills, good bills behind the scenes. And they go and do it because they also represent a lot of cities and towns and counties around the state that are red. Yep.

And they do not tell these cities and towns and counties really what they're doing. I've seen them hide it. They hide it in conjunction with the staffs and all of these organizations. And so you have to watch for these folks because they will use that bipartisan cover. Mm-hmm.

in a way our side does not seem to understand. Yeah. And it's interesting you bring that up, too, because, you know, in Arizona, we have a 31 to 29 majority for Republicans control there. Yeah. And one seat majority and a one seat majority in the House and the Senate. Yeah. So it's 16, 14 in the Senate, too. Yeah. So like we don't have a lot of wiggle room. One guy, one Republican peels off and it's over. It's done. And so that's why we need like we've got to we've got to expand these majorities because of organizations like Arizona City, Leagues and Towns. They'll pull off a couple people

Maybe there's a bill there that they don't like. They just got to go peel off a couple of those Republicans to kill that bill. And that's – I mean that's the reality and nature of politics. But that's also important why you got to have a bigger majority than just like one or two. And there's been a lot of good bills here, things in Arizona that have passed because of that. And there's a lot of things that have died because of that type of majority. And I'm hoping that there's me and –

several other people that are running for the legislature. We may not get to a super majority. We may not get to 40 or 50, but maybe we get to 35, 36. And we got to like, just like you mentioned, like the Florida legislature and Governor DeSantis, when they got in there, I mean, they went full speed ahead. They're like, we're not stopped. We're going to follow through with our promises. We're going to tell the media where they can stick their narrative and we're just going to keep going. And that's what we've got to do here in Arizona with the next governor. Hopefully it's Carrie Lake.

We have constitutional conservatives in the House. As I have to admit, I am Kerry Lake's policy director, so I'm 100 percent on board with that. But, you know, before we go, I wanted to touch on because we kind of ended the last segment touching on this bill that has been branded the don't say gay bill in Florida does nothing of the sort. It just keeps, frankly, child sex grooming out of the classroom while they're very young. You're talking very, you know, six, seven, eight, eight year old kids. That's totally inappropriate.

Democrats keep overplaying their hand. There was a poll out today that shows Democrat primary voters in Florida oppose or support that bill, support what Governor DeSantis is doing by a margin of 52 to 36. We have to get those narratives out there. Younger people have to understand and see what's going on. You cannot continue to allow them to pressure kids in school.

You have it. Same thing today in Georgia. Stacey Abrams organization outed as having been in, you know, embedded in the schools for their ridiculous narrative around election integrity. Austin, you're a fighter. We need more more like you.

Tell folks again how they can follow you here. Go to AustinForArizona.com. Check out my website there. You can go check me out on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. It's all the same, at AZAustinSmith. Sam, thanks for having me on. You're a fighter, too. I know we've got to have more guys stepping up. You're running for the city council. I mean, we need...

really bold leadership in Arizona or a decade from now this is going to be just LA County and folks if you're in Florida and you're asking why I should follow this guy it's because he's going to he's going to impact the future and we need more like him and you really need to get in and support these America first candidates the ones that are fighting the fight and putting you ahead of the Democrats and ahead of the commies breaking battlegrounds we'll be right back

The 2020 political field was intense, so don't get left behind in 2021. If you're running for political office, the first thing on your to-do list needs to be securing your name on the web with a yourname.vote web domain from godaddy.com. Get yours now.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren is out of studio today. We have another lineup of fantastic guests for you. Our next guest is Michael Lieb. Mike has been among the Valley's leading real estate and land acquisition professionals for decades now. Been a catalyst for redevelopment by promoting and creating infill development throughout Phoenix and the greater Maricopa Valley area, including a lot of work in downtown Phoenix.

This is a critical issue. Obviously, breaking battlegrounds is on the air in both Arizona and Florida, two states that are seeing massive numbers of people moving into them from all across the country and are having enormous spikes in housing costs. It is becoming really unaffordable for a lot of people that need to be, you know, obviously need a place to live.

And the housing crisis is absolutely upon us. This is something we've talked about on the program before. So I really want to thank you, Mike. You have come together with a group of like-minded folks here who are really trying to highlight this issue and get the construction that we need to address the problem. And that, as far as I know, is the only way to address the problem is to build, baby, build.

Yes, that's for sure. So, Mike, tell us a little bit about this organization you put together and what your goals are and what some of the things that we need to be doing right now to start addressing this problem. Because I can't tell you how unfair, I mean, you know, but folks, you know, if you're living in a beautiful home and you want to go out to a restaurant, the person cooking your food and the one delivering your food to the table need a place to live too. Right, Mike? Yeah.

You know, we've never seen anything like this. I've been involved in housing for 35 years, been a leader in this market. And, you know, I went to Arizona State University and took a class economics 101. And it is that simple that supply and demand are so out of whack that

You know, when our 20 and 30 something year old children with good jobs want to move back into the communities where they grew up and they can't afford it, we're doing something wrong.

And so if you want me to kind of delve into how our group Home Arizona came together, because we believe that we've been the catalyst throughout the state and helping move this conversation along and how we went about it. So I absolutely do, because you guys have been a major catalyst in bringing this to the forefront and bringing awareness to this issue, because it is becoming a crisis level issue. I mean, here and across the entire country.

But in the two states that are going to be hearing this program, we have never seen this before. And so we, you know, people need to understand what it is. So tell us, please, about about home Arizona and and how that came together, who's involved and then what what y'all think maybe we could start doing in all of our states, including obviously first and foremost here. And we're talking about Phoenix and talking about Arizona, but.

across this country. What do we need to do to get after this problem and make housing affordable again?

Yes. So about a year and a half ago, I have projects going in 14 cities in Maricopa County. So, you know, I have had a first, you know, had a seat, a front row seat to watch this phenomenon take place. And I called out, I sent an email out about 200 people, developers. Did we lose Mike there, Jeremy? No.

Warning, there is a shortage coming. It is a perfect storm of lack of supply and demand far exceeding it. And then about before the summer, I did it again and got 50, 60 replies. What can we do?

And so, you know, I could be a force of nature when I get passionate about housing has always been my life and my business. So we decided that the way to do this was if it's just the multifamily folks yelling about they need more supply or the housing developers yelling about that, it's just going to look to the public.

as a biased type of scenario. So we decided to put together a group called Home Arizona. And on our board, we have two ex-mayors. We have Elliot Pollack, the leading economist here in town. We have John Graham, who's been on a lot of different boards. We put our board together with

diversity of leaders and stakeholders in the Valley so that nobody would feel like this is just one industry, you know, trying to promote another industry. We spent four or five months with doing empirical data with Elliot Pollack. We did branding sessions. And, you know, we came up with this Home Arizona. And our, you know, obviously Arizona's got a housing problem.

Yeah, Mike, I got to cut you off for one second. We're going to bring you back on our next segment here. We got to go to break here in just a moment. But I think the point you just made is so critical. You're bringing together people from a lot of different industries, a lot of different areas, all committed to solving the same problem. Breaking Battlegrounds. We'll be right back with more from Mike Lieb momentarily. Welcome back to Broken. Oh, I was doing so well. We changed the name of the show a few weeks ago when we got on in Florida.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. With your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today. In the studio with us, the irrepressible Kylie Kipper, our producer. Thank you, Kylie, once again for getting us some great guests. Absolutely. And the fantastic guest we have on right now, Michael Lieb from Home, Arizona. One of the really leading lights in trying to address the housing problem, the housing crisis in Arizona. Yeah.

And so much of this is applicable in Florida as well right now. Mike, when we went to break, you were talking about how you put together this organization with people from across a variety of industries in a variety of areas. I've said on this program for a long time, the key to getting out of this crisis is we've got to build not just one type of housing, but every type of housing.

And it can't be an endless process to try to get those approvals. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the policy directions and things that your group has come up with that folks could get behind that can and will solve this problem? Yeah, so thank you for that lead in. So our group believes that economic development

starts with a pro housing policy. Arizona has done an incredible job

the amount of corporations and employers that are moving here. We never say anything like it. But the question is, where are they going to live? It's simple. So our group focuses exclusively on housing supplies role in economic development, corporate relocation, job creation and quality of life. What inspires our leadership, our stakeholders,

It's our belief and our responsibility to pass on to future generations the opportunities we inherited. Here's an interesting stat. Mike, I think we lost you right there for a second. You said an incredible stat, and then it cut out.

So there's an incredible stat going on that I have here in front of me about the net amount of people, over 100,000 moving to our state every year, many from California. The cost of a U-Haul from Los Angeles or San Francisco is over $1,000.

$2,000. The cost of a U-Haul from Phoenix to Los Angeles or San Francisco is about $300. What is it? Hell yeah. It's pretty simple that everybody's moving here. So,

You know, what are the seven things that our economists came up with to end the shortage housing? You know, you might think this is a joke, but build more housing, build more housing, build more housing, right? Right. We did, you mentioned something earlier in your comment about the affordability by occupation. We did some studies from 2020 to 2021 for the waiters and the workers and the teachers and the firefighters and the police officers.

And the affordability by occupation, these are for renting of a two-bedroom and one-bedroom, has almost doubled from 20 to 21 in the lack of ability to rent these units. When rents are going up 30 and 40 percent, again, I went to Arizona State University Economics 101.

So what do we do about it? Well, I was asked by the newspaper the other day, how many of these projects around Maricopa County are being turned down by the mayors and the council? And I said, you're asking the wrong question.

the question is how many of these projects are being turned down because the planning departments at many of these cities uh you know are inflexible and if you you know if your idea of a redevelopment doesn't meet their plan they tell you no and the economic development directors are walking the hallways whispering to mayor and council please don't take any more of our employment land

How short-sighted can you get? And so, you know, one of the things that we are doing is, in home Arizona, I'm very proud of it, we have over 30 CEOs that have signed on with us with quotes. The reason why we're doing this, we want the head of Intel and Motorola and Banner Health and Blue Cross and the leaders to say to the mayors and councils,

What are you doing? You're not providing enough housing. You're driving up the cost of the housing cost for my labor. I can't attract talent. What are you doing? We need to shorten the red tape of getting projects approved. An interesting stat, a conclusion. We have 80 to 100,000 new people moving here every year.

Our economists are telling us we need an additional 25,000 single family units, an additional 15,000 rental units just to replace the the

the average amount of units that are coming in now, because we're so far behind in a pent-up balance of not building enough housing, we have this perfect storm. There's only one answer. Build more supply. Absolutely. Across the board. I think you hit on a couple of good points. One,

We've got to cut down the time. And people don't understand this who haven't been in the development world or who haven't been in city government and that kind of thing. But it's something I got to see firsthand. You've seen throughout your career the amount of time it takes to get approval, to go from the idea of we're going to build that house or we're going to build that apartment building to actually putting the shovels in the ground is one of the most important elements in the eventual affordability of those units, right? Yeah.

That is it in a nutshell. And, you know, what's interesting is, you know, some cities, Phoenix has actually been fantastic, right? I mean, you know, they have the same problems that everybody has in every industry. Lack of labor, you know, overworked. I mean, nobody saw this housing crisis coming. We already had a hot market before COVID. And after COVID, it's like a fire hose went on. And

And it's unbelievable. So, you know, to the defense of a lot of these cities, it's taken longer to get through the process from a building and safety standpoint. But here's the answer. You don't start with no.

You don't start with no at the counter at a lot of these planning departments where the answer is, well, let me pull out my plan, which, by the way, in some cases is 10 years old. Think back about 10 years ago and what's happened today. But you don't start with no.

Absolutely. It's why I say very frequently that Phoenix, along with every other city, needs a new general plan. You need to readapt for the climate we're dealing with now. And, you know, I think with that, there's sort of two elements of opposition there.

within the public to a lot of new housing projects, right? On one side, you have a lot of people say, well, all that gets built are expensive houses that low-income people can't afford. And on the other side, you have people who are saying, look, I don't want apartments anywhere near me. I don't want any kind of density. I don't want the multifamily housing around because that's going to create problems. But the fact is both of them are wrong.

That a unit is a unit is a unit. You build a really high-end unit, a Class A unit. If you have enough housing, someone moves out of a Class B unit into that one. Someone moves out of a Class C unit into the one they just vacated. And now you have a hole in the market that helps keep the price down. And on the other side, this fear about multifamily housing and about larger development, when I've dealt with it at the City of Phoenix, when you really get down to it, Mike, what I have found – and tell me if you think I'm wrong here –

The biggest issue with people is how many folks are going to be on the road with them. And you really just kind of got to address that with good transportation policy to tie into this, right? Sam, you hit the nail right on the head. Here's a fact.

We're netting 100,000 people coming here. We're not, it's not going to stop, right? We, you know, Arizona is a great product to sell. We got beautiful weather. We got very pro-business environment. We've got, you know, good government. And so they're coming. And so where are they going to live? You know, I hear all the time about density. And, you know, what's interesting is many of these businesses

come, I hate to use the word NIMBY, but many oppositions come from neighborhoods that don't want density near them. Well, today's density, the people that are living in there, and I mean this respectfully, most of them are making 75 to 100 grand a year or more. You know, the income levels are high. So this isn't, there goes the neighborhood. These are lifestyle choices. Yes. And

And these are just like in today's world, many of them have business centers and people are now working from home a lot more. These are lifestyle choices. And we can't say no. The people are coming. Here's a very interesting fact that happened. I know we're all aware of this. About a month ago, a bomb was dropped on the legislature.

about the housing bill, somebody trying to create what just got approved in California, which is, okay, cities, if you're not going to approve zoning for more housing, then we're going to take away your right to zone.

We want to go on record of saying we're not in support of that housing bill. We don't believe the state should take away zoning from the cities. We filled in a lot of calls from mayors and councils. Was this you? And our answer was, no, this was not us. No, we don't believe it. But the simple answer is, holy mackerel, if that's not a wake-up call to everybody, that we better do something in a pro-housing environment or

or it's going to be forced upon us. And so we're hoping that the mayors and the council are listening because at the end of the day, it's our responsibility to the next generation, not our responsibility to four or five people that may be calling, you know, 10 times to a mayor and council and council members in some cases are making a reactive spur of the moment decision versus, you know,

looking at from a vision of what we want our next generation to be and housing to have.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, that bill, for folks who aren't familiar with it, it basically took away a lot of the as you said, it took away a lot of the rights of zoning of cities and towns. It would have required very high density zoning anywhere near an arterial street. And I kind of had the same reaction you did, Mike, that that was a bad bill, but it was good intentions that.

There's a way to do this and a way to do it with local control, but it needs to be a real priority. And frankly, I think a lot of politicians have to be a lot more honest with their citizens about

Like what you just said, people are coming here. We can't stop them. The only thing we can do is to try to create a better environment than a lot of these cities, and California is always the poster child for this, that have stopped development and as a result created a terribly unequal and unfair environment for young people and people starting out if you're not making huge money.

They're highly unaffordable. We can't let our cities become that. Yeah. You know, Sam, not only is that a good point, we, this is 50 board members. There's about eight mayors. There's CEOs of a lot of companies and they move very methodical and, and they've come to the point where they're now realizing, cause they're the ones that, you know, if Apple or, or Google, I'm just using examples, big companies like that, put their toe in the water and,

to GPAC because they've been the leader of helping these companies. And they're hearing across the board, it's starting to affect companies coming here because of our affordability and attracting talent. And so, you know, I gave a, we gave a speech the other day, myself and Elliot, former mayor, Paul Johnson, to GPAC. And I ended with,

Here's the solution. And it was kind of a little humor, but I had a sign made out and it says, here's the solution. And I hold it up and it says, welcome to the city of X.

We appreciate the housing developers and your investment. What can we do to facilitate? We are no longer going to say no as our first response. Our focus is going to be on design and quality. How can we work together? That's the message that needs to be sent to the housing community because many cities are stiff-arming. And it's just a fact. And, you know, I'm at an age...

Blunt and tell it like it is. Perfect. We have just about one minute before we go to break here. We're going to come right back with Mike Lieb from home, Arizona. I think this is a really important conversation for people around the country, but particularly people in Florida and here in Arizona. Texas is another state with the same kind of problems where we have a great, great states, great place for people to move to, great place for companies. And we want them. We want the economic growth. We want the opportunities here.

But we've got to address the housing also. And we are not we have not been doing that aggressively enough. We have got to get serious about this. Love what you're doing, Mike. We're going to bring you back here in just a moment. I want them to.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today. This is the beginning of our podcast-only segment, but we are keeping Mike Lieb from home Arizona on because he's talking about an issue that's both near and dear to my heart, but also one that is critically affecting all of our states that you're hearing this in, whether it is in Florida, Arizona, if you're listening on podcast in Texas, if you are on the coast where this problem has blown up years ago,

We're talking about housing and ways we can really start addressing the crisis that has come about in this country where we have really failed to build enough housing for the last decade or more. And, Mike, we really appreciate your time on the program today. And I can't thank you enough, you and your group, for what you're doing, bringing together business and community leaders from across our state to start taking on this issue.

You've hit on the biggest issue, which is we've got to build, build, build. We've got to say yes. We've got to find ways to make housing a real priority in all of our cities and towns.

What else can we do? What are some of the... Did I lose you? Nope. I hear you loud and clear. What are some of the more important steps we can take beyond just that attitude of saying yes? What are some of the policies that local decision makers can look to implement that will actually help make this happen effectively? So very good question. I, you know,

I'm going to throw a couple more stats at you, and then I'll answer that. So apartment rents are up 30%. The single-family resale is up over 30%. And that's in a year. That's in a year. But this is an important factor. So I don't know if any of you have had your 20 or 30-something children out, or 40-something even, out trying to buy a house.

Not only are rents up 30% and the average resale of a house is up over 30%, but here's what happens. If a house goes on the market and it's $400,000 or $500,000 and a young couple wants to go buy a house, there are these large funds that are all over Arizona because of the rental of housing.

that are coming in paying $50,000 above the list price, waiving inspections day one, close seven days later, and putting it out in the rental pool. So you can't even afford to buy a house. So what are the key takeaways here?

affordability has fallen and is plummeting. There's no vacancy. Supply is not keeping up with demand. Our success in attracting jobs is being affected. And a continued shortage of housing is driving up the cost for economic development. So solution. Number one solution, obviously, I don't have all the answers, but a pro-housing solution.

policy and the message being sent to the investment building community that we're open for business and and we're going to help streamline getting these processes through

People don't realize it takes me 18 months if I want to build a 300-unit apartment complex from the start of putting that land in escrow, if I'm lucky, 18 to 20 months to get a building permit and another 20 months to build it. One project, 36 months.

You wonder, with all these people flooding in here, how the supply and demand has gotten out of whack. So there needs to be some streamlining of the bureaucratic scenario and the time it takes to get to hearings and to get through the process. Obviously, building and safety issues are very important, and those can't be shortcutted. But there are ways to do it and still streamline the system.

And, you know, part of it is for some of the cities, and I know this might be a challenge, to hire more staff or to allow the private sector. I know that Councilman DeCiccio had done that with some building codes, some building plans for single family, allow the private sector maybe to certify versus it all being in the...

the city side of it where they're overworked and overburdened. Well, and I've talked to some developers here who have said straight up that, look, they would pay double or more of the fees to have cities contract with outside engineering firms to help them get through those processes a lot faster. I think there's a lot of willingness to put the money behind that

even if cities aren't able to hire in-house and do some of the things like you just mentioned. But we've got to get this process down to six months, really. It should not take longer than that to get your approvals. And then obviously building code safety, those kind of things, as you said, you can't shortcut that. But there's no reason you can't get proper input on a project in six months. And, you know, in many ways, and I think we all realize this,

It comes down to politics. And, you know, here's the interesting thing. Like in Phoenix, for example, you know, we're a nonpartisan city in many ways, and a housing unit doesn't care whether you're a Democrat or Republican. And so the reality is the culture from the top down is the only way it's going to change because the planning department, the economic development department,

They answer to their mayors and council. And the mayors and council are reading these articles just like we are every day. And many cities have allowed us to give presentations to them. Gilbert, Goodyear, you know, Phoenix we're working on. You know, Tempe. You know, some cities get it and some cities don't.

still believe that we'll take the jobs and let people live elsewhere and drive. And that really is a culture that permeates through a lot of cities in the suburbs. And that's got to change. Yeah, absolutely it does. I want to real quick before we have to go here, I want to address one other issue because I think this is a big thing that a lot of people don't understand.

I think there's essentially three classes of housing need. One is for subsidized housing, and that is something the government has to be involved in for very low-income people. That's not something development is going to be able to address other than to help build those units at as low a cost as possible. But second, there's workforce housing.

That's for the lower income folks like you were talking about, everyone from waiters, waitresses, line staff in restaurants through firefighters, police, nurses, teachers, so forth and so on.

I have said for a while now, we have to get really serious about figuring out how to make that element of the market profitable to build. And the only thing I can come up with is you have to make the building process go much faster and cost less along the way to do that because that has to be a segment that it's too big for government to address. Right.

So, Sam, you hit on a really very good point and one thing that we haven't talked about. So there isn't a housing type across the board, entry-level, move-up, market rate, workforce, low income, extremely low income, that there isn't a huge shortage of. The reality is people will say, well, we need more low-income housing versus market rate housing. At the end of the day,

That box that you build, for use of a better rough term, still costs X. And then what you put on top of that, you know, the extra ginger, if you will, kind of in some ways differentiates between the market rate and the affordable. But here's the biggest issue that is affecting everybody. Construction costs. Construction costs are up 40%.

I mean, I'm talking to both the family guys that are telling me their costs are going up 2% a month. Now the rent can't keep up with that. And, you know, we've got an incredible lack of labor and, and the construction cost is driving the,

Whether you're building a low-income rental or a market rate deal, let's not forget that when the government gets involved and has to build low-income housing, then there's some very strict rules. Like they have to be built with Davis-Bacon wages and other ways that probably drive another 15% cost of that box. And so construction costs is a whole other segment that we could spend an hour talking about that.

is a consequence of the, you know, incredible amount of demand and the very short amount of supply. And it's a constant that is a constant battle that these builders are fighting. They literally are getting a cost to build, and nine months later, the cost of that

building could go up $5 to $10 million and have budget cuts. And so construction costs is a major problem right now that is affecting and will continue to affect until we can attract more workers. Well, and to attract more workers, you also need to train more workers in all of those fields. And that's where I think

states, and in fact, across this country, we really need to look at how we're educating students and driving them all into four-year college degrees when a lot of kids would be better off going into trades, where you can make a lot of money. I know a lot of guys who started off swinging a hammer on a job site who have their own construction firm now. That's a really good career path if you're interested. I think we have to work really hard to make that

more socially acceptable as much as anything else.

It is. Many of the multifamily and the single-family housing developers I've been following have been working on some trade training. And what I'm hearing from both of them is they can't find enough workers. Yep. So the idea is a great one. In many ways, the construction trade for people that aren't going the college path can make really great livings.

But they have to want to work. That's a whole other segment. But I hear that from a lot of the trades out there. We can have a whole other show on that one, Mike. But I want to thank you so much for coming on and giving us your time today on Breaking Battlegrounds. I think it's been an absolutely fantastic discussion. I hope a lot of people around the country and around Arizona and Florida, all these other states that are growing so fast, I hope they were listening in because I think this is incredibly important information.

For, like you said, it's the heritage we're going to leave our kids, but it's also the environment we're going to be living in in the next 10 and 20 and 30 years. So people need to take this really seriously, and it's critically important that we get after it right now.

This is a crucial thing that we need to discuss, and I'm glad to be a part of your show today. And, you know, you're doing very important work here. Mike, very much appreciate you being here. We'd love to have you back on again in the future. Folks, Breaking Battleground is going to come back for just one more quick segment after this. Stay tuned in on your podcast. ♪ music playing ♪

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Sam Stone. I just wanted to add a little bit. Normally we don't do an extra, extra podcast segment, but we're doing it today because I do have the three young people here in the studio. And that last discussion I think impacts all of you maybe and young people like you across the country more than it does a lot of others. And you have sort of different situations. Kylie, you apparently just bought a house. Yeah, in May of 2021. So it's been an interesting...

It's probably worth a lot more today than it was when you bought it. Very much so, which I'm enjoying. Okay, very good. It's like a little townhouse community. And so when one a size smaller than mine sells for more than mine, I'm like, woohoo, this is exciting. And Jamie, I know she's a renter.

I'm saving for the house, but it will be a little while. And Will is hoping to get to the point where he can get a house and rent on his own, I assume. He probably wants to get away. For those folks who don't know, I dragged Will out here from Baltimore to work on my campaign. And so he's having to put up with me, which, as every girlfriend I've ever had, and I'm not married, so that might tell you something, will tell you is not an easy thing to do.

So he's probably ready to find an apartment of his own. But I think one of the things about Mike's discussion that's so important for everyone across the country right now is a few years ago, I used to say all the time that if you lived here, you know, people were talking about income inequality. When Bernie Sanders came on the scene, that became really a big talking point. But if you looked...

income inequality was much more an issue in the big blue coastal states than it was here in Arizona or it was in Florida or it was in Texas, where you could make $36,000 or $48,000 a year and you weren't rich, but you were having a very good life. And that's getting unaffordable real quick for that class of earners, which is a lot of young folks when they're starting out. So I just wanted to kind of get your guys' impression of what was just said and

And, you know, what you think, you know, are we doing the right thing if we're saying, hey, let's build, build, build?

Is this what you think we need to do? You're the next generation. I'm too old for this. I'm already the classic guy who owns apartments. I absolutely think we need to be building more and more and more. And I'm a little crazy, and everybody hates this, but I want it bigger, taller, more dense, as crazy as you can get it, because we just cannot keep up with housing costs here otherwise. There's no way. Has your rent gone up? So much. It just went up a lot.

My unit, I've been there long enough that they didn't raise it too much on me, but it went up $200 last week. I don't want to get too deeply into your finance, but what percent increase is that? It went from $1,400 to $1,600. The unit next door to me is renting for about $2,000. Wow.

Wow. That was one of the reasons I ended up buying was because my rent, I had been in the same place since 2016 or 17. And it had, we started at $1,700 a month. It was three bed, 1800 square feet, pretty good size in Arcadia. Yep. And by the time I was looking at houses, it was almost at 20, it was at 2,500. Probably if I'd stayed to renew for my fifth year, it would have been at almost probably 3000 at this point. It probably sells, it's probably renting for that much.

And now my mortgage is just so much more affordable. But the place wasn't getting nicer because I had lived there for five years. So it's not like it was worth that in my mind as a renter and I was getting nothing out of it. So it's getting very... But then buying the house was a whole nother frustration of its own that I was like, I should have just renewed. And for Will...

I mean, you know, you're in a position where you know you're going to have to start making a lot more money to be able to afford a place like this, right? I mean, in Baltimore, I was living in an apartment complex with four, like at least three other people, sometimes four. So three or four in a how many bedroom apartment? In like a, it was around three, four.

So three-bedroom apartment. Yeah. Okay. There was like a back room that we would sometimes make like a fourth room as well, but everyone would be paying like $675 a month. And then on my final year, they tried to increase that by $100, and that was when I called you. So you're looking at about $1,800 to $2,000 per person for that three-bedroom, and then that going up to $2,400, $2,300 per month. And it wasn't like in any means. I mean, that's a 10% jump, and it's –

It wasn't a great place. It was not a great place. I mean, I know from his mother, actually, I'm giving away inside baseball, but not a great place is understating the not greatness thing.

I mean, and that's what we're talking about, folks. You can't get into that position. And so I hope everyone took something away from this segment in particular and really start thinking about what it's going to take and the fact that we all need to understand that we have more people in this country. We have more a growing country. We have a growing world. And we've got to just address that head on. So I want to thank you all. And I want to thank our guests, Austin Smith, Mike Lieb,

Another great show, Breaking Battlegrounds. We'll be back next week. The political field is all about reputation, so don't let someone squash yours online. Secure your name and political future with a yourname.vote web address from godaddy.com. Your political career depends on it.