Unwrapping the Magic of Christmas: Traditions, Family, and Festive Music
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To the appreciation, Brian Earle, the creator and host of Christmas Past, the longest-running and number one podcast about Christmas has for it. Since 2016, Brian has been sharing the fascinating stories behind Christmas traditions and memories from listeners around the world. Brian Earle, welcome to the program. Thank you very much, and Merry Christmas. When did your love for Christmas begin?

You've obviously got a passion for it. Yeah, I mean, I guess it would be a little on the nose to say that as a child growing up, I loved Christmas because what child doesn't? But I feel like I get a little extra dose of Christmas spirit through my mom, who was just a very crafty person. And I look back at photos of myself from childhood, and my mom would make a Christmas pinata and would make all of the decorations. There was a handmade pinata.

advent calendar in the house and just all of the baking. She would make a gingerbread house from scratch and had all these different kinds of cookies that she made. So I grew up with really with no choice but to develop a really, really deep love for Christmas. So your podcast, Christmas Pass, is wonderful because each segment's around 10 minutes. I've been listening to it at the gym this week and I really enjoyed the story, the stories. Would you tell our audience a little bit how Toys for Tots started? I found that segment just fascinating.

Yeah, and it actually follows a similar trajectory to a lot of Christmas traditions that we have now, where it just kind of started very small, almost by accident. This was right after World War II. There were some war orphans or people who were, you know, just in economic straits because of the effects of the war.

And the wife of someone from the Marine Corps, the Reserve Marine Corps, had made a handmade rag doll and wanted to give it away to someone somewhere, but she didn't really know where. There were no toy drives going on or places where you can go make a donation. So she said to her husband, well, why don't you and your Corps reservists put together a toy drive and you can do that?

So that happened the first year. It was just a local effort in Los Angeles. But the thing is, a couple of things were happening at the same time. Number one was that the Marine Corps itself after World War II was some people wanted to dissolve it and it really could use a little PR boost. And so the higher ups kind of saw this as their ticket to that. And then the other thing was that the.

the uh... the person who organized it i'm forgetting his name at the moment uh... again he was a reservist so he had a civilian career and he was doing public relations for warner brothers so he had all these show business connections so walt disney he tapped walt disney and some of his illustrators to design a poster for the effort and that little train the toys for tots train was actually just came out of disney studios that's one of the illustrations but then

A big part of the reason Toys for Tots has flourished is because of all of the celebrity endorsements, and that could only have been possible with all those showbiz connections. That's an amazing, iconic thing. I had no idea that was a Disney Studios design. That's incredible. Yeah, and it was all volunteer work. That's kind of the, everyone really likes to participate. While it's mostly showbiz, you know, the sports teams have gotten involved too. The Yankees have had games dedicated to raising money or collecting Toys for Tots. Right.

Well, firefighters are all over it because we know how they are looking for a good PR opportunity. Good PR for them. So, Brian, one thing your podcast goes is you research Christmas traditions. What are some interesting Christmas traditions you discovered doing your research? Well, yeah.

One of the big themes that runs throughout the podcast is that the version of Christmas we celebrate today is only the latest one, and there have been many. And think of all the traditions that you think of when you think of Christmas, like Christmas lights and listening to White Christmas and watching Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. I mean, none of those things is more than 150 years old, and the vast majority of Christmases throughout history didn't include any of that stuff. So we can look at things like in the Middle Ages, where Christmas itself was not the kind of

the holiday that you celebrate in your home with your family and you give gifts and there's a magical gift bringer, the holiday itself was a lot more like Mardi Gras or the 4th of July or Halloween where it got raucous. So there were traditions like the Feast of Fools where, yeah, the idea was that the normal social order, normal social or moral ideas were kind of cast aside for 12 days.

And there was all kinds of misbehaving in ways large and small. So it's a concept known as social inversion, which has been pretty much washed out of Christmas now, but it was a big theme back then. So it's not necessarily specific traditions, but just the entire tone of Christmas all throughout the Middle Ages for nearly a thousand years was just a completely different ballgame.

How many of the traditions that carried from that period do we still hold? Or what are some of them that people might not be aware are carryovers from that period before the marketing of Christmas?

Well, let's see. Things like a Christmas pudding, which is more of a British thing. We don't do it here in America that much. And even in England, a big portion of it's here. Nobody does British food anywhere else very much, and for good reason. Yeah.

Not even the British anymore. We're making a large study this year to find out about whether people in England are carrying on those traditions. And something like 70% of people don't make a traditional figgy pudding. But those things come from the Middle Ages. The thing is, over time, what they looked like was very, very different. So the earliest versions of figgy pudding were a lot more like haggis, believe it or not.

It was only over time that it became more like a cake. The same is true for things like mincemeat and all of the eggnog. The versions we have now are just the latest iterations of old, old ideas.

One thing I love about your podcast, because it brings up so many points to think about, you also at the end of every podcast allow listeners to submit memories. I do love how you say keep it clean, which is funny that you have to do that. But besides that point, you have the listeners submit memories. How does that shape the direction of your podcast? Yeah.

Yeah, that was one of the first creative decisions I made about the podcast is, you know, because I keep things short and the earlier part of it is more like I'm doing an interview with an expert, but then kind of shaping and editing it. It's supposed to sound like, you know, like a news report, you know, that's the idea. But then I knew that I also wanted to have, you know, a listener perspective where they're sharing a Christmas memory. So the idea is like overall listening over the course of 10 minutes, you kind of learn something, you get this kind of cozy, homey Christmas vibe and you get a glimpse into a

other people's Christmases, because that's another thing I find really fascinating and always have about Christmas is you go over to somebody else's house and you see how they decorate or what their Christmas Eve tradition is. And I wanted to make that a central part of the show. And you're right, I started saying that a couple of years into the podcast that you need to keep it clean and family friendly because some of the ones I was receiving, I was hesitant to put in the podcast. They just weren't appropriate.

You know, the traditions are funny. I remember the first season of Modern Family, their Christmas special that Manny, the young boy, Gloria's son, wanted to light fireworks because it's a Colombian tradition. And it makes me think, as you've learned about traditions, what traditions have you taken and implemented in your family's Christmas celebration?

Well, almost certainly the one that I am doing the most strongly in the last couple of years is adopting a lot of the British cooking. I never grew up eating mince pies or making a figgy pudding. I do that every year now. And we have a tradition in the house on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. We take the figgy pudding and light it, you know, cover it with brandy and light it on fire and sing a Christmas carol while the brandy burns off. Yeah.

And then also observing the 12 days of Christmas. I mean, one of the biggest differences between Christmas and the distant past and today is the length of the season. So this is like a fifth century idea that the Christmas season begins on Christmas Day and lasts until January 5th. Those are the 12 days of Christmas. Whereas today, the Christmas season is the period leading up to Christmas and basically the day after Christmas, it's over. So one of the ways that I can keep the Christmas vibes going after Christmas is to just keep celebrating until January 5th.

That's fantastic. Going back to these listener stories, is there any unusual or heartwarming stories that people have shared with you that you can share with us?

Yeah, there are some that get really personal. And the one that always comes to mind is there was a man who had been listening to my podcast for years and years, and he knew that he was going to his family's house to celebrate his last Christmas with his mother because she was ill. And he had a lot of things that he wanted to say to her, and he felt like he would get choked up when he did that. So he wrote to me and asked me to read this.

his thoughts about his mom on the podcast so that they could listen to it together. And those are the kinds of things where, you know, this podcast started out as just a little personal hobby for my love of Christmas. And then it's grown into something like that, where it's just this community. And I feel this great sense of affection and responsibility in a way to the people who listen, because, you know, they're starting to ask things like that of me.

I get other little quirky ones, too, and just, you know, a lot of things that I guess are unsurprising. People kind of write in and talk about how, you know, what Christmas morning was like, or they'll tell stories that would seem familiar to most listeners. But every now and then I get one that's just really heart-wrenching and unexpected.

What for you – those have to be really tough because obviously Christmas is very emotional. My own family has been going through the loss of my father and you watch all those traditions become more important in a certain way. What has become sort of the single most important tradition around Christmas for you and your family? What do you emotionally value the most?

Yeah, ever since I became a dad, and that happened later in life. So I'm a 50-year-old guy with a four-year-old son. And it really is, it's going to sound trite and cliche, but it's just about being together and forming memories and making sure that, you know, these days, it's a lot easier to

catalog those memories. You can take a thousand pictures a day and write things down and blog about them. And there's all kinds of platforms where you can share those kinds of things. I don't know if that makes things better or not, but I know that we definitely try to capture the moments and create the moments. And so, you know, here in California where I live, Christmas is very different from New England, but we have a lot of our unique traditions, Bay Area traditions that we try to do every year. But really, it's about...

As I've gotten older, carrying on a lot of the things that my mom did. So like I said, she had a handmade advent calendar. She actually created a copy of that for me as she's nearing 80 years old that we do today. I always make the cookies that she made. I still have the same recipe and the same cookie press. She gave it to me. So it's really about carrying on a lot of the traditions that I grew up with and passing them on to my son. Now, for those of us who like to eat, we have just about a minute left. But do you by chance have that Christmas cookie recipe on your site? Yeah.

No, I should put it on there. That's a good idea. Oh, yeah. I mean, look, you put it on there. We're baking those things up here in just a moment. We're going to be coming back with more from Brian Earl in just a minute. He is the creator and host of Christmas Past, the longest running and number one podcast about Christmas. You can follow him, christmaspastpodcast.com. And it is a – there are wonderful, wonderful stories. I spent a few minutes tracking around them last night.

my own experience growing up like you, Brian, in the Northeast. The one thing I miss being here in Arizona is those beautiful white Christmases, waking up to new snowfall. Folks, we are coming back. We hope you are generating some wonderful Christmas memories for yourself and your family this year. Breaking Battlegrounds, back in just a moment.

Folks, this is Sam Stone for Breaking Battlegrounds. Discover true freedom today with 4Freedom Mobile. Their SIM automatically switches to the best network, guaranteeing no missed calls. You can enjoy browsing social media and the internet without compromising your privacy. Plus, make secure mobile payments worldwide with no fees or monitoring. Visit 4FreedomMobile.com today for top-notch coverage.

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Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds.

Anytime you need your principal back, there is no attack on it. You can get your money back 100%. Again, it's a fantastic opportunity. So check them out, invest the letter Y, then refy.com or give them a call at 888-Y-REFY24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. Brian, I have a question. I want to talk a little bit about the traditions you've done podcast segments on. But the one question I have is in the song 12 Days of Christmas, why are there so many birds in there? What is the background on that? Yeah.

Yeah, we don't know. And the funny thing is that's only the latest version of that song. There have been other versions where there have been ducks quacking. There have been other versions where it wasn't my true love who gave me those gifts. It was my mother. So that's a song that's just changed over time and almost certainly was never written as a song. It probably was the result of what's called

a forfeit game, one of these games where everyone has to kind of like make up an idea on the spot. And if you can't make one up, you're out and you keep going until there's only one person left. And also the partridge in a pear tree may have been a mispronunciation because a partridge doesn't live in a tree, right? Like they make their nest around. And so some people think it's pear tree, which is just a French word. And I'm forgetting what it means now, but it doesn't mean pear tree.

Something that seems to be a Christmas tradition, especially for moms and girls, is going to the Nutcracker. They drag us guys along. I stopped that silly tradition for myself because I personally don't like it. But what is the background of the Nutcracker? Chuck's Grinch moment. It seems like it must have been around forever and ever, but that is a really new one. So this was a Russian ballet called

And at the time, it was not a couple of things. Number one, it was not a big hit in Russia. And number two, Christmas wasn't even the central theme. You know, yes, there was a Christmas tree on the stage, but the Christmasification of the Nutcracker would come much later. So this was, I believe it was in the 1950s where we got the first American production in San Francisco. And over time, it has become, number one, more Christmas-like.

And then number two, it has become for most ballet companies, their main source of revenue for the year. They make all of their money in the weeks leading up to. Oh, I believe it. So basically the origins of the Nutcracker is sort of like Die Hard. There's a Christmas tree. So now it's a Christmas ballet like Die Hard's a Christmas movie, right?

And it is a ballet that was based on a story by E.T.A. Hoffman. And the story is much more violent. I mean, there are the girl Clara actually, you know, like it gets gets into an accident and cuts her fingers up on broken glass. And, you know, the mouse king is trying to kill them. So it was sort of sanitized. And then I think as years go on and on, it gets even more sanitized. So a true Russian story.

Yes. Sam, go ahead. Chuck, I'm wondering if you won't be more willing to go now that you learned that the Russians don't like it. I swear, you open up your social media feed and every woman in the world's gone to the Nutcracker. We're just friends. There's no males in the picture, which is funny about it. No, no, we all gave that one up. Brian, tell us a little bit, the day after Christmas now, Christmas.

our family had some kind of specific traditions around this, but we didn't call it Boxing Day, which apparently they do in a number of countries. What is Boxing Day? Yeah, well, we're missing out on it, first and foremost. So that is the day after Christmas, December 26th. It is also St. Stephen's Day, or the Feast of Stephen. This

St. Stephen's Day and Boxing Day are often conflated. People just think there are different words for describing the same thing. They're distinct observances, but they happen to fall on December 26th. And in most places it's celebrated. It's a bank holiday. Schools are closed. It's a day off. And the way that they celebrate it is a lot like American Thanksgiving, where you just eat a lot, you watch a lot of sports, you hang out with your friends. So it's surprising and kind of disheartening that we don't have it here in America. But what it commemorates is...

People often ask, like, what is the box in Boxing Day? Because some people say, oh, that's the day that you take all your boxes back to the store or the things you didn't want to return. Others say that it might have had something to do with that was the day that the servants got the day off after Christmas and their employers would give them a box filled with gifts.

That's not quite right, but it's a little closer to the truth. The boxes were earthenware boxes that service people, people in the service industry would use to collect tips around Christmas. So, yeah, it's something that's been going on, especially in England and other parts of the UK for a long, long time. I'm just surprised that we don't have it here.

So Christmas, especially when we're all of the age where this was a big thing, event television, we watched Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, Santa Claus is Coming to Town, the Rankin-Bass Christmas specials. What's the back story of those? Yeah, well, that was the creative team of Rankin and Bass. One of them was a commercial jingle writer and the other one was an artist. They actually had done a lot of work for Mad Magazine. And

One of them, I'm forgetting which, had gone to Japan and seen this new style of animation that they were doing. People often refer to it as claymation, which it's not. There's no clay involved. I think they're just thinking of those California Raisins commercials, but it's stop-motion animation. And the reason that they were able to do what they did was that these Japanese studios had developed techniques for doing this stuff at scale very quickly, where you could pump out a lot of these and not for too much money.

They didn't start out doing Christmas stuff. They had done some kind of Wizard of Oz thing for a local television show. But they got to the point where they wanted to do a Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. They got sponsorship from General Electric and NBC. And after the success of that was proven, they were just cranking these things out. And I grew up with all those. I grew up in the 70s and 80s.

And, you know, I think of the ones like Santa Claus is Coming to Town or A Year Without a Santa Claus or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. There were a lot of other ones that actually didn't become classics, right? They made some great ones, but they also made some clunkers, to be honest with you. And some of those are making a comeback now, but they're not the ones that we think of as classics.

We have just about two and a half minutes left here. You have, as I understand, you have a book out, the Christmas Past book. What are some of the past fascinating favorite traditions that people just kind of have left on the sidelines? Traditions that we don't do anymore? Yeah.

Well, I think for one is celebrating the 12 days of Christmas. Now, again, the way that it was celebrated a long time ago is there's all kinds of raucous behavior and misbehaving. But, you know, as a way to sort of close out the season and to sort of bring, you know, New Year's Day and other observances into the Christmas season, I think is important.

This will sound, again, a lot of people say, well, Christmas has become so commercialized. And, you know, in the past, it wasn't. I think there is something to be said for returning to a simpler time where not only is it not all about the gifts, but think about a long, long time ago. If the culture contributed something to Christmas, it was more like they would have some festival or some, you know, regional dish or something.

or you know some local folklore character now it is when think it contributed to christmas it because i would make me a product a wrote a song or made a movie most of celebrating christmas nowadays is basically interacting with different pieces of intellectual property your brands where i think back in the day it was a lot more just like a sort of organic celebration of your local culture which is something it's not a tradition per se but just more about a theme but i i think you know is worth taking a second look at

Other traditions that have come and gone are, you know, like the boar's head. That was mostly for rich people, but, you know, the boar's head carol you've probably heard of, and that, you know, was something that you would sing as they would very festively present a severed boar's head for the feast. There are a lot of traditions that have come and gone that are just very strange. They would seem so just out of place to us today that were just, yeah, part of Christmas for millennia.

Well, I got to say, as someone who's picked at a boar's head, the cheek is delicious. It's a little hard to eat with it sitting there on the table, but it is delicious. Brian, thank you so much for joining us, folks. You can follow Brian Earle at Christmas Past Podcast dot com. Brian, we really appreciate you taking the time. We hope you and your family have an amazing and wonderful Christmas together. You as well. Thank you so much.

Folks, Breaking Battlegrounds will be coming right back with more from our Christmas special in just a moment.

Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. Folks, check out 4freedommobile.com. That's the number 4, freedommobile.com. Learn how you can protect yourself from digital piracy and spying. If you want to protect your information in a world where it is increasingly vulnerable, get rid of the big networks. Go to 4freedommobile.com today. And when you put in code BATTLEGROUND at checkout, you get a 10% discount.

We are continuing on now with John Fuller, vice president of the audio team at Focus on the Family, broadcast and co-host of several popular programs, including Focus on the Family Daily Broadcast, Focus on the Family Minute, Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast, Their Parenting Podcast, and especially relevant, obviously, today for our Christmas special, Their Christmas Stories Podcast. John Fuller, welcome to the program.

Hey, thank you. I appreciate the invitation. And Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas to you. So, John, Sam and I, you probably, too, have been lucky to have strong families growing up.

And, you know, Christmas is a family time of year. So like it's a two-part question. What is the meaning of family during Christmas? And then what can we do to help those who don't really have family? I've become more conscientious about this topic the older I get, how lonely it is for some people.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Let me address the first question, or the second question first. I think we just have to have a mindset of letting go of kind of the postcard picture, perfect kind of Christmas that is just us and say we want to extend our family's love and appreciation to those who are struggling. So just in the Fuller household this year, we'll have

Two VIPs, two very important visitors. First, I have all six kids that are going to be here, three coming in from out of state. And so that'll be great. We'll have eight of us all together. But then my mom is a new widow, and she's going through what you're talking about, Chuck. She's dealing with an empty house after 66 years of marriage to my dad who passed away just a few months ago.

So we invited mom to come and she is coming and we're so glad and it's going to be joyful and it's going to be hard and there'll be some tears as you know, well, dad, we're here. And then one of my daughters has a deep, deep heart for some friends, one in particular who literally has no family. Her family exploded and passed away and she is, she's basically got nobody. And so my dear daughter invited her to come and spend a couple of days with us and

She'll be coming in on Christmas Day and our heart is for this young gal who's just like mid-20s and has nowhere to go. And

And so we are anticipating showing love and adopting these people into our nuclear family. And I think that's a great way to approach the season. How can we open our hearts in our home and even maybe just do a meal together with somebody? I think the meaning of family is right there. We are called to reflect God's image and his love and care for all. And so it's messy sometimes. I mentioned six kids. They don't all agree.

Yes. We're not going to talk about certain topics. Has there ever been a time when all six were on the same page? You know, they're fiercely independent. And so, you know, we're not going to talk too much about religion and politics. I think that's a good way to go in. We're going to major on the majors. We're going to have games and fun and food and

And hopefully some good serious conversation about life and where we are as individuals and collectively as a family. It's a rich time already, but I'm really, really, really looking forward to this Christmas.

John, we have just about two minutes left. We're going to come back with more. But I wanted to ask for people. This is you kind of touched on something for people who aren't religious or perhaps aren't part of the Christian tradition. I'm Jewish, for instance. We always we were Christmas tree Jews, but we always host a big gathering with all our friends and anyone who would like to come for a Christmas dinner.

How can people who aren't part of this kind of put aside maybe their qualms about Christmas and just focus on bringing people together? Yeah.

Well, I think the culture generally has done a good job of emphasizing the non-religious aspects, if you will. I mean, there's a sense where you're smiling more in the stores. You're giving people a little bit more of a burst for that cart to be blocking the way. You just tend to, I think, generally, because of the festivities and the spirit of the season, approach life with a little more openness and love.

a little more grace, even if you're not a believer in Christ or a religious person. So I think in that sense, the culture has done a pretty good job of emulating the best aspects that we see as believers of the Christmas story, which is selfless giving, which is sacrifice, which is looking out for others, which is loving.

and loving will. These are things that I think all of us aspire to. Absolutely, 100%. We're going to be coming back with more from John Fuller, Vice President of the Audio Team at Focus on the Family and host of their Christmas Stories podcast in just a moment, folks. Stay tuned. ♪

Folks, this is Sam Stone for Breaking Battlegrounds. Discover true freedom today with 4Freedom Mobile. Their SIM automatically switches to the best network, guaranteeing no missed calls. You can enjoy browsing social media and the internet without compromising your privacy. Plus, make secure mobile payments worldwide with no fees or monitoring. Visit 4FreedomMobile.com today for top-notch coverage.

digital security, and total freedom. And if you use the code BATTLEGROUND at checkout, you get your first month of service for just $9 and save $10 a month for every month of service after that. Again, that's code BATTLEGROUND at checkout. Visit 4freedommobile.com to learn more.

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Check them out. Invest the letter Y, then refy.com. We're continuing on now with John Fuller, vice president of the audio team at Focus on the Family. And he is also the host of their Christmas Stories podcast. We appreciate his time today. Everyone is gearing up for what we hope will be a wonderful Christmas for everybody.

John, the Christmas Stories podcast has been around six or seven years. What inspired you to create it? And second, what are some stories you can share with us that have stood out in your mind? I appreciate that. And first, let me get this on the table. I didn't create this. I'm surrounded by some really good talent and creative people. And so one of our producers was saying, hey, you know what? We've got some great building blocks of material here.

that we've collected in various shows throughout the years. Why don't we pull some of those together and kind of wove them together with encouragement and some special themes. And so we've been doing this for a number of years, as you indicated, and I get to have various focus on the family colleagues joining me in the studio. Part of the fun is hearing their perspectives on the importance of family. I talked to my colleague Paul Boutour a few times

a few seasons ago and he's got three boys. Okay. Can you picture three boys like 12 and under? Yes. Yes. My assistant has one. So yes, I do. I see it often. Yeah.

Now, Paul's boys are a little bit older, so it's a little more sedate, but there's just like a rocket loose in the house. And I loved hearing about that because with six children, we had that kind of energy, but it's been a long time. So going back and just kind of thinking through happy memories and really rich moments, that's been personally fulfilling. And I love being able to do that and just bring that to the listener because I think –

Wherever you're at, it's just good to hear some of those warm stories and be reminded of the sense of love, the importance of family and those family memories, good and bad, that make up the fabric of our lives. John, with all the people that you've interviewed on this podcast, is there a tradition maybe that isn't common that just stood out to you as man that that has to just be enriching for that family or in those people?

Oh, well, I appreciate that because let's see, 14 years in the studio and I produced for five before that. 20 times 200. I'll loan you a Grok app to sort them out. There you go. Yeah, I need some AI just to augment what I forgot. Over the years, in

In terms of the people in the studio that we have, I'm going to say there are two categories. There are authors and speakers who have given thought to their story. They've crafted talking points and application, and they've got the stories that really, through time, they've kind of fine-tuned those. And then on the other end of the spectrum, there are guests that have

but they haven't crafted it. They're not necessarily speakers or well-known authors. And there's a richness in both. What commonly unites them is that these are stories. These are what we call God's stories. And so, like any good story, there's usually an element of conflict or loss or some dramatic element, and then God steps in. And so the

The two different ends of the spectrum and everything in between, I really enjoyed the story, the thread of stories of people dealing with life in its messy, messy ways and finding meaning and purpose and redemption. So that's one aspect. In terms of families or guests,

We didn't mean to, but we pretty much talked to the entire Duck Dynasty tribe. We've had everybody from Phil and Kay Robertson to Al, just everybody and their aunt and grandma, pretty much literally. And that's turned out to be wonderful because the Duck Dynasty folks are, they're just who they are.

There's a realness to them, and they've gone through a lot of life.

And I think once you get past some of the scripted, quote, reality show things, those are real people who are dealing with real things. And they have some fantastic, entertaining, uplifting stories to tell. So that's one of those unintended things. But we sure have enjoyed talking to the Duck Dynasty folks. We have, this time of year, a lot of frantic moms who work very hard.

to create memories for their children, to create traditions. It's a great time because as kids grow older, as you know, they remember the traditions. That's why your six are coming back, I'm sure. They're just great memories you provided a house of love. How would you recommend to families, especially to mothers who are working so frantically right now, balancing the commercial Santa aspects of Christmas and the true meaning of the season?

Well, any answer I give you is going to be seemingly dismissive of moms who really care and work hard, which I think is most moms. I worked really hard to build in these big memories when I was a new dad because I knew how to do it because I work and focus on the family and we know how to do things.

And along the way, God pried my fingers away from that sense of control. And he's shown me through success and through failure that I need to have a plan to make some meaningful moments. But I also need to give a wide breadth for my kids to be kids and for them to kind of create their own things.

So Dina, my wife, was so good at doing Christmas cookie decorations and making gifts for the neighbors. In fact, that's what I'm doing this next few days is I'm giving gifts to the neighbors from my wife. She makes them and I have to go meet everybody because she already knows them all. Just little things along the way that make it easy for us to kind of grab onto meaningful moments. But then

So step back and recognize that organically, you just got to give space for the kids to be kids and for some things to happen. There is one particularly painful Christmas. This is just being transparent. We had plans. We were going to go to the local Catholic church and do midnight mass. Now, we're not Roman Catholic, but I grew up Roman Catholic. I had fond memories of that. I thought, let's do that.

One of her kids had a massive meltdown about 10.30 at night. We were at some friend's house, and it was a real conundrum. Like, what are we going to do? And so I took this child home and skipped midnight mass, and the others went, and they came home and said it was great. But I had to let go of me having a nice moment because I had a child who couldn't have a nice moment.

And I think we have to just be aware that not everybody's going to be on your plan. Not everybody's going to buy in. But if you make room and you give grace and you just look for the good parts here, you can grab on to some really wonderful things, maybe even unintentionally. There was another moment. Let me just say this. I had another moment where we went up to a nearby park, and I'm a photographer. I put the camera up.

We're all standing there getting a selfie of all eight of us. Okay? I'm doing the remote. We go through like 100 pictures. We get back home. I am not joking. My children conspired against me. There was not one good picture out of 100 because they all made stupid, silly faces in every stinking shot. I'm oblivious. I'm smiling naturally and nicely. They are absolutely...

in total disrespect, disconnected their spirit

so in my face and all I could do was smile because they got me. This was years of pent up angst for my children saying, Dad, can we just be done with the Christmas tree pictures? And finally they got back at me and I had to say, touche to you, my independent children. Well played. Doesn't that though in a certain way become the best Christmas photos you ever took? Just because it's, you know... It's real life. Yeah.

Yes, yes it is. And, you know, we have a 30-plus year tradition of going up and cutting a Christmas tree in the National Forest, Pike National Forest, right alongside the back end, the backside of Pikes Peak. Do they still let you do that, or we need to keep that under wraps here? No, we do that. You can buy a permit, which we do every year, and go and cut a tree. But the trees are not cultivated. These are Charlie Brown trees.

And so this is another one of those embrace the messy, embrace the imperfect. Because once we choose that tree and we put it up and we decorate it, it's our tree. And imperfections and all, it's our tree and it's a memory. It's a memory all the way around. So let me encourage our listeners, lean into the messy and imperfect and even the pranks that your kids do on you.

to some degree because it's all part of the fabric of good Christmas memories. Exactly. I got to throw in real quick. When I was growing up in upstate New York, my mother, we always cut our own tree off of our property. Only you basically had to turn my dad and I into loggers because she would go out and none of the small trees would be good enough. So we'd have to cut down some 40 foot pine and take the top off. Yeah.

Yes, this was us. We actually developed a system where my wife would go find the tree. She'd have a walkie-talkie, and I'd have binoculars. I'm like, raise your hand up. Nope, nope. That one is three times taller than you. We only have an eight-foot ceiling. Go to a different one. And so, yes, absolutely, that is part of the deal. Aspiring moms want the biggest. And us dads, well, we've got to carry it out. Yeah.

We had a 32-foot ceiling and a very narrow hallway to get it in there. It was an adventure. Oh, my goodness. 32 feet. You can buy a big tree. Oh, it went to the top with a star up there. She put scaffolding around it to decorate it. Literal scaffolding. Yeah.

I feel better. Thank you. We talked about this a little bit earlier. There's a loneliest epidemic in this country, especially for those from 18 to 30, apparently. And we know a lot of people. What is the advice you would give to young adults who are feeling isolated during this holiday season? I know for us here talking, our job is to reach out, as you're doing, as I'm doing, as Sam does. But what would be your advice to those people?

who are isolated and feel lonely during Christmas. Boy, this sounds probably trite, but if you can put yourself in the mindset of that classic movie, It's a Wonderful Life, if you can just kind of picture Clarence alongside you saying, you've got purpose. Look at the rich life you've been given. It might feel pretty sucky right now.

But look at the good things. Take a moment and just consider the good things and look at the people that you've been able to impact because you do have meaning and value. And again, I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a counselor. Focus on the family has counselors. They're free. You can call and speak to a counselor for a free 20 minute, 25 minute phone consultation. Um,

And I'm not saying if you're lonely, you need counseling. But if you're lonely and you're alone this season, take a step. Just look for somebody that might be feeling the same way and reach out to them and say, hey, tell me your story. And maybe you'll be able to get together for coffee or maybe you'll be able to give them a gift or buy them a cup of coffee or something. But I think if you're able to

to recognize I'm lonely because I'm built for community and I'm disconnected. I need somebody. It's not like you're going to find a life friend, but if you'll take a step and see if there's somebody you can bless, somebody you can give to, that might help a little bit. And don't be like some of my kids. They don't make their needs known. They just don't. They're really stubborn about that.

Find somebody that you can trust and just casually mention, I need somebody. Can you help me? And that ties to... Oh, go ahead, please. Yeah, I was going to say, if you need that counselor, give us a call. We'll have somebody give you a call back.

And our donors make it possible for this free consultation. It's 800-A-FAMILY, 800-232-6459. And we'll let that be the last word, folks. Focus on the Family does wonderful work, and Christmas, like their mission, is really all about bringing people together. Be sure to tune in for the podcast segment. We have more coming. Merry Christmas to all of you out there.

Make it a wonderful Christmas with your friends and family. Bring people together. We'll see you on the flip side.

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Welcome to the podcast for Breaking Battlegrounds with your host Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Thank you for tuning in, folks, to our Christmas special, a time of year that is very, very important to both Chuck and I. As to all our guests, our next guest up today, Alex Rawls. He is the host of the 12 Songs of Christmas, covers indie music and culture at MySpiltMilk.com.

And talks about the podcast from Christmas in July until Christmas. I always love Christmas in July. I do too. It was a great invention. Did Hallmark create it? Did Hallmark create Christmas in July? Do we give them credit?

I will. I have absolutely no idea of the many things I have tried to explore over Christmas. That's one I have yet to get into, but it gives me a starting point. So therefore I love it. I actually think I do know the horror, the origin of that one. And it is not a hallmark. It is minor league baseball. Really? Yeah. As far as I understand, and I might be wrong because I come from a minor league baseball background. So maybe we're patting on ourselves on the back unnecessarily here.

But as I understand it, that started out with a team that did a big day Christmas in July kind of promotion event where they were giving away gifts. And literally within two, three years, every minor league team was doing it. And then it took off from there.

Oh, that's great. Oh, I so hope that's true. Yeah. Now, I call it 80%, but I was working for the Tucson Sidewinders at the time, and we talked about that when we instituted our first Christmas in July game. Oh, that's great. That's one of the things I'm most fascinated by is how Christmas things, how fast they move into the world, and then seem like they've always been there.

I recently did an interview that I'm going to actually run next season with the program director who basically started the idea of All Christmas Radio. And that wasn't until the early 90s. But it now seems like it's always been there because it now has become so ubiquitous. Wait a minute. That only started in the 90s? It seems like that was there throughout my entire childhood. Yeah.

That might have just been my mom's record player. It used to be that before that, once you had the first week of Christmas, you had two or three Christmas songs an hour. And the closer you got to Christmas, they'd filter in another couple of songs. And then it's only in the day or two before Christmas that they really went hard. Now, we've all got these stations. Since you're all over Christmas music, I have to ask, I mean...

What is like a song by, let's say, a group that's a heavy metal band or something like that that's way outside the norm that is still an incredible Christmas song? That's a reach for me. Okay. I would go with, I think, Trans-Siberian Orchestra and their...

uh, Sarajevo slash Carol, the bells. Correct. It's brilliant. Yeah. Which I quite like. And I have to say one of the most interesting, entertaining interviews I've done, uh, for the podcast was talking with Al Petrelli, who's the musical director for trans Siberian. And we talked about what's involved in getting ready for their show.

And he said, like, they rehearse for two or three weeks musically. And then there comes a point where they spend, like, two days just learning how to walk around their stage because so many different pieces move and levitate and move out toward the audience. They said, like, you take a wrong step. It is so easy, like, to fall, break a knee, crash, burn, end up in a flash pot. So...

It was all, there's a moment where you're just literally learning how to walk on your own stage. That's awesome. That's very true. I actually saw the concert and took a bunch of friends last year. I've never seen it. And it, it is a production. It's nothing what I expected. And I, and I thought afterwards, I go, there's fire everywhere. There's lots of moving parts. Like no one's dead. This is amazing. I love this Christmas special. Alex, two things I want to ask you. What do you think is the most underappreciated or,

overlooked Christmas song or songs? The one that doesn't get the love it deserves or isn't acknowledged is Christmas Time Is Here from the Charlie Brown Christmas. It's one that has so many people I've talked to on the show. It's their favorite. And it's one that...

I have to have at least 10 to 15 really good cover versions that are smart and interesting. It offers so much musically. And at the same time, it's, you know, it's always kind of lives in its own little place that it's not thought of in the same way that you think of being and not thought of in the same way that you think of Mariah Carey or the way you think of anything by Sinatra. So, yeah,

Shaking a fist at Mariah? Yeah. Well, Mariah's making $3 million a year. I'm not shaking my fist. I'm just trying to figure out how I can get on it. Let me ask you this, since you cover this. You hear so many stories from people that Christmas music is like a comfort food. And you hear so many stories with apparent passing, like...

My mother just listened to Perry Cuomo's Christmas or Dean Martin or things of that nature. Why is it such comfort food for the mind and heart? I think it's because we associate it with so many good times that for so many families,

Christmas was the one time they could get their act together. And now as families have spread out and gone different directions, that it's easy for families to remember the time when they were all together and these were the songs they listened to. And like with all of us, we remember, we tend to focus on the good times and it's easy to forget how kind of challenging some of those Christmases really were. But instead, you remember the good parts. And

a lot of those records come, especially records from the 50s, 60s, they have such a strong sort of musical atmosphere of their own that you hear it and you immediately go to that place.

What we're speaking with Alex Rawls. He is the host of 12 Songs of Christmas podcast and My Spilt Milk. Alex, what for me, it's little drummer boy. Every time I hear that, it takes me back to a very specific moment in Christmas when I was a kid. What's that song for you? Must be Santa.

from the Sing Along with Mitch, Mitch Miller Collection. Mitch Miller was he was a guy who he had a TV show Sing Along with Mitch and he had a bunch of people behind him. And that was where you actually first saw like the bouncing ball bouncing from syllable to syllable in the lyric to teach you how to sing along. And my mom got that for us as kids. And

There were and that's the one song I didn't know it was everything else in there was a song we already knew and so that stood out because it was at the moment fresh and then flash forward to the 2000s and Bob Dylan releases a Christmas album Christmas in the heart and he actually uses the Mitch Miller version Oh, wow inspiration for doing a doing must be Santa. That's amazing. Oh

Sam, by the way, the best version of Little Drummer Boy is by Josh Groban. Oh, it's brilliant. There will be no debate on this subject. He was very, very good at this. Alex, first of all, you're in New Orleans, correct? Yes. What is New Orleans like at Christmas? And is music a big part of that down there, as it should be? Yes. Yes. It is, well, right now, it's about 50 outside. It is, these days...

It is cool. It's sort of autumnal at Christmas time. And yeah, Christmas is... Music is such a big part of it that...

There is, I mean, tomorrow night there are two really good shows, very, very different, one of which is a, there's a New Orleans sort of hip-hop style called Bounce, and there is a Christmas bounce show in one venue, and the other side of town in the French Quarter, that there is a show with actually about six women who've come together, and they've made their show kind of a

a pivot and you have a lot of musicians come to join them. And so you have a sort of a whole musical community coming in and singing and sort of sharing songs, sitting in with each other. And so it becomes a really communal experience. And that's very much a New Orleans thing.

What is the most controversial Christmas song? I know like in movies, people debate, is Die Hard a Christmas movie? We found out today from our earlier guest that Nutcracker basically is a Christmas ballet like Die Hard because there's a Christmas tree. Now it's a Christmas tradition. But what's a controversial Christmas song? Oh, I suppose it depends on who you ask. I mean, this year was the 40th anniversary of Do They Know It's Christmas?

by Band-Aid and the which started off in 84 as a obviously as a Ethiopian famine relief effort and I had a great interview with the producer of that mid-year who helped organize the musicians and he recorded it and they've stayed involved and

It has continued to have to work on trying to get money for famine relief in Ethiopia. But at the start, there were complications because you basically had people who weren't in the charitable giving business and the money didn't always go at first where it was supposed to go.

And as time has passed, there have been people who have been concerned that what this has done is make people in Africa look like they're all starving Ethiopians and as such made some people in the world concerned that maybe investing in Africa might not be the best way forward. So this year specifically, that's sort of controversy number one.

You have a particular heart for Christmas music by bands you follow year-round. What are some of those bands and the Christmas songs by them that you really love? I got to say, Lizzie, this year, I guess the number one right now, partly because it's sort of on my mind and somebody who I have found this year,

is an artist named Eduardo Arenas. He was the, is the bass player for a band from Los Angeles, an indie rock band, Chicano Batman. And they sounded like a great high school dance band from the 60s on the West Coast.

So a great combination of R&B and garage rock and the Latin music that was part of there growing up. And his stuff has gone far more into cumbias and into the music, you know, sort of more traditional musics. And partly because that's music I've discovered this year. I'm interested in that.

Because I know a lot of sort of regular Christmas music, having somebody expose me to Christmas music I don't know about, that's exciting. And trying to get my head around how Christmas expresses itself in other cultures and getting into what do Spanish language Christmas songs sound like. The fact is you don't get sleigh bells.

You don't get traditional melodies. And so how do you plug in? And it's very clear. It's very clear. A whole lot of people do. So that's kind of become a fascination of mine. So this year, Eduardo Arenas is a has been a real interest.

You've been doing this, you've been collecting Christmas music for 20 years. So I have a two-part question. Two-part question. Well, three-part. First, how many Christmas songs have you collected? I don't even have a clue. Okay. And, well, this is a good question for next year when we have you on. And then two, do you just, like, it's June. Do you used to start playing Christmas music during the day sometimes? Sometimes, sure. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I love Christmas music because it does what I like from all music. When I'm listening to anything, I'm listening to if it's a song that someone's writing, it's somebody writing a song that has a reason for me to listen to it. Somebody writing something interesting enough to catch me.

And whether it's a love song, whether it's a going to work song, whether it's me and my pals song, or whether it's a Christmas song, it doesn't matter. A well-written song is a well-written song. And if it's a cover...

what I always want to hear is, is this person doing something with it to give me a reason to pay attention? And again, these are the same questions we ask all year long. So I don't, I'm not a very nostalgic person. And so I don't tend to plug into these songs because they take me back to something. I plug into them because I genuinely have the same fun listening to them now that I have listening to Mardi Gras music

all year round that I have listened to anything else in my collection all year round. It's really is. I, I genuinely like these songs as music is fantastic. I'll kind of let this be the last word, but, uh,

Is that an example of an area where culture sort of underappreciates the quality of the work that goes into these seasonal type productions? That the artists really are taking this seriously as art, that it is not schlock as the way it was presented in that Mariah Carey song movie, whatever. I always forget the title. Absolutely. And even...

I mean, you know, there's a sort of a great example is on The Simpsons when Krusty goes to record a Christmas album in the middle of summer, which is when they are recorded. And they make a joke of him walking in and dashing it off. And obviously it was a riff on people like Sinatra and Dean Martin. But the bottom line is, is that there are a lot. I would say there are a lot of cynical Christmas records in the world that

But the ones we hear aren't. The ones that endure, somebody paid attention to what they were doing. Somebody invested something in it emotionally. And what's been, I think, really exciting is that really in the last five to ten years, I've found more and more artists who continue to do Christmas music and have clearly...

invested their own artistic sense and their own sort of identity in this music. And it's not that music, that Christmas music lives in a separate world, that Christmas music is a part of their, a part of their world and a part of their artistic world. And I find that really exciting.

Well, Alex Rawls, he has the podcast, 12 Songs of Christmas. Anytime you use a Simpson reference, we always want to have you back on the show. Very important, talking about culture, having Simpsons and Christmas. We wish you a Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for joining us today. You too. This has been great. Alex, thank you.

All right, Sam. Have a good day. Thanks. Well, as always, thank you to all of our guests on this wonderful Christmas special. I really appreciate, quite frankly, just as always, Chuck, with our holiday specials, getting outside of the confines of this program and being able to focus on things that bring joy and happiness and happiness.

bring people together as music does, as Christmas does, as family does. And so appreciate all of our guests who came on the program. Next Christmas, we need to go to new Orleans. Kylie needs to set it up and we need to go, go tour new Orleans, Christmas music with Alex. Oh, I'm waiting on, I'm waiting on we're in it folks on behalf of breaking battlegrounds. We want to wish you a Merry Christmas. Take the time to reach out to those who may have nowhere to go.

If you're fighting with family, skip it. Give them a big hug. Tell them you love them. You can work out those problems later. On behalf of Sam. Go ahead, Sam. You know, I was going to say, actually, because I do the Jewish Christmas tradition. We go out for Chinese food with my friends here. If you have no one to be with on Christmas and you're here in Phoenix, go on X at Sam the Paul, Sam the P-O-L. Send me a DM. I'm happy to invite you to come join us.

That's a wonderful, wonderful offer, Sam. So on behalf of Sam, Kylie, Jeremy, and myself, have a Merry Christmas. We thank you for your listenership. We thank you for your friendship and have a great weekend. Absolutely.