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cover of episode How Did Our Democracy Get so Fragile?

How Did Our Democracy Get so Fragile?

2023/12/5
logo of podcast The New Yorker Radio Hour

The New Yorker Radio Hour

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Evan Osnos
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Jelani Cobb
J
Jill Lepore
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Michael Luo
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Jelani Cobb:美国民主的本质在于即使失败也能对胜利保有信念,但这种信念如今变得脆弱。美国人对自身卓越性的观念是一种缺陷,阻碍了对自身不足的反思。美国历史上一直存在着自由与奴隶制之间的矛盾,这种矛盾至今仍在影响着美国的政治。对美国黑人历史的研究可以作为衡量美国反民主程度的指标,因为对黑人的压迫正是为了阻止民主。 Jill Lepore:当今美国民主的脆弱性体现在人们对失败的承受能力不足。对美国历史的解读存在极端对立的两种观点,这使得政治讨论贫乏化。人们选择性地解读历史以符合自身政治立场,这是一种危险的行为。美国目前面临着宪法僵化、政治极化和收入不平等三重危机,这些危机相互影响,难以解决。 Evan Osnos:1月6日国会骚乱暴露出美国民众与政治体系脱节的深层问题。许多参与者是第一次来到华盛顿,这表明他们与政治体系的疏离。美国右翼民粹主义运动中往往混杂着荒谬的言论和合理的批评,需要仔细辨别。

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The discussion explores the fragility of American democracy, touching on historical roots, current threats, and the role of public engagement.

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We’re in the midst of another election season, and yet again American democracy hangs in the balance, with a leading Presidential candidate who has threatened to suspend parts of the Constitution. How did the foundations of our political system become so shaky?  Jelani Cobb, the dean of the journalism school at Columbia University; Evan Osnos, a Washington correspondent for The New Yorker;* *and the best-selling author and historian Jill Lepore joined The New Yorker’s Michael Luo for a discussion of that very existential question during the most recent New Yorker Festival. From Cobb’s perspective, “it’s not that complicated,” he notes, “If we went all the way back to the fundamental dichotomy of the people who founded this country and the way they subsidized their mission of liberty with the lives of slaves. So we’ve always been engaged in that dialectic.” Lepore argues that people on both sides of the political divide choose to embrace an account of the past that accords with their politics, something she considers “incredibly dangerous.” Osnos, who witnessed the upheaval of January 6th firsthand, thinks the deeper problem is disengagement from the country and the political system. “I was struck by how many of [the rioters] told me it was their first trip to Washington,” Osnos says. “They came to Washington to sack the Capitol.”

*CORRECTION: Jelani Cobb notes that Queens was at one time the second-whitest borough of New York City, and is the most diverse county in the United States. Measures of diversity vary; in some recent data, Queens ranks third among counties. *