Fire to Work with Crumbs w/ Dr. Pam Ross
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Have you ever been so hungry that you started thinking about leftovers that you didn't finish? Like you out and about thinking about that pasta and how it's probably marinated because you know some things are just better the next day. This week, we're talking about having the fire to work with crumbs, taking on the perspective of redefining an

honoring what we have and not only harping on what we no longer have or completely missed out on. Those leftovers, what you have left over from your heartbreak, from your dream, from your purpose, your energy, your spirit, there's power in those leftovers. My co-host today, Pamela Ross, has countless years of experience in guiding leaders and redefining success.

which is why I thought she'd be perfect to chat with you on the topic of working with crumbs. Are you ready to get fired up?

Miss Pam, I want you to know that I talk to grownups all the time and I usually call them by their first name, but there is something about speaking to you. Maybe it's because I know, I feel like I know you the way that I just can't bring myself to just call you Pam. It feels wrong. It doesn't roll off the tongue the way that I think it should. And I just want you to know it's going to be Miss Pam for me during this podcast. Okay. Oh,

That's fine. I'll take it. That's so interesting. How are you? I'm doing great. It's hot. Is it hot there? It's so hot in the Midwest. I mean, single people are taking cold showers normally, but it's so hot like married people are taking cold showers.

That's how hot it is. I love this for me. I love it. And we're not, we're just not used to it this early in the year, you know?

So this heat wave that just has moved through the country, it's so hot. But other than that, I'm doing great. I'm honored to be here. Oh, I'm so glad to have you. And I'm really honored to meet you. So thank you so much for this opportunity. No, it's amazing. How has it been with Imani transitioning to L.A.? I forget what city we were in. Yeah. You know, I have three daughters. Yeah.

And Imani is the firstborn blessing. And Imani just had this grace to stick close. And even when she was really young, she would come with me to, and Imani could sell books off my book table better than anybody else. And so when her sisters went away to college, Imani went to school locally.

I've worked in church for years. Imani would be the one in the car with me being at church at 7 in the morning. What kid wants to be at church at 7 in the morning? And so when I dropped Imani off at the airport, I went to the nearest Target, went in the bathroom, and I thought I was going to be sick. Hmm.

I was just like, oh, God, my writer. Like, what is happening here? And I knew that the timing was perfect. I felt like it was a safe place. And this is, I believe, her destiny to have another level of exposure. So, yeah. So, I'm good with it now. But I'm going to be terribly honest. At first, I was just like... Because at first, it's like...

baby, take them by storm. You know, can't nobody tell you about you like your mama. Right, right, right. So I told her, you know, it's going to be amazing. And the testimony behind it, I don't know if she's told you, but it's just how she got there is phenomenal. But for me to be able to say, I'm good with it now. I'm very good with it now. And I think she's happy. I was going to say, that sounds like my mom. When I moved to LA, she told me, how can I be so happy for you and so sad for me?

Yes. Yeah. And that's been the journey. Well, I tell you, I try to take, she doesn't, she doesn't tell me a lot about how she's doing, even though I ask a lot, but I try to take good care of her in the times that she will allow me in. And I try to not mind my business to check on her. So. Oh, please. Yeah. Cross all boundaries. Yeah. And, uh,

I will. You've been deputized. Yes. Across all boundaries and just see how she's doing. She's a natural caregiver. She's the firstborn. So it's just natural for her to say, no, I'm here for you. I'm here to serve you. So Imani being in a place where someone says, no, really, how are you? Yeah. It's a good thing. Good. It's a good thing. Okay. Well, now I have permission. So it's only up from here. Okay.

Oh, yeah. Tell her. I've been deputized. I have a whole badge from your mom. I love this because for Woman Evolve, our theme for August is revolutionary fire. And one of the things that I have heard about you, one of the things that I have gleaned from even looking at your resume and your extensive background is that you don't just have revolutionary fire to make things happen. You have revolutionary fire to work with crumbs. Like, it doesn't have to be...

massive. It doesn't have to be huge. You don't even have to know the, all of the mechanics connected to the vision. All you need is the fire to work with the crumbs that you've got. And so I want to hear out of your mouth, like, how did you come to a place where you said, if God just gives me crumbs, I'm going to work with those. Like he's given me any and everything that I need in order to manifest this vision.

Let me tell you, I think I came to it because it's what I had. And I love these women in the New Testament. And I love that you brought this whole idea of revolutionary fire and being able to work with these crumbs. I think for me personally...

It came from crying out to God to how do I cooperate with you to move forward in my life, to really possess the thing that you already said was mine. You know, sometimes God can give you a promise and that promise can irritate you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't even really want that. But you told me it was mine. And now I feel this thing stirring in me, almost like God gives you permission to hope.

And you being somebody who you are, you are a fountain of hope. You give people a new picture of what their life could look like everywhere you go. I mean, you you paid over the graffiti of the devil and you give them a beautiful picture of what God could do for them.

And so the Lord comes and gives me this hope. Now this hope, this righteousness rises up where you feel like you have a right to it. Wow. And so reaching a place where you get to the end of yourself and you're saying, God, how do, if you show me, I'll do it. If you help me, I'll do it. And then the Lord is dealing with me saying, what do you already have in the house? Oh.

Okay, so you done said 18,000 things. I'm going to need 18,000 of them. And I don't even know where to begin. I'm just going to, let's just go. Okay. You know, we did our tour. We did the Revolution tour. And the message that God gave me is really about desperation being the birthing place for the Revolution. Shh.

Okay, so now you know. So now you know where we are. I mean, same page, baby leaping moment right here. Even in history, the reason why revolutions arose is because the people got desperate. And you cannot overthrow anything from a place of complacency or resentment or anger because all of those, though valid in a moment, are

distract you from strategy. It's not until you get desperate that you really begin to say, now what can I do with what I've got? These may be my crumbs. I may not have anything left, but this is what God gave me. And so how do I use it? And I want to talk about when you first started, you said that you think that you got this fire to work with crumbs because it's what you had, but how do you

not be resentful that it's not what other people have, or it doesn't seem like enough. Like, how do you make that mental shift from this is what I have. So it must work to from this is what I have. And I don't think that it's enough. Yeah. You know, amazingly, I think about for me and I've been around people with varying levels of access to

Varying levels of resource, varying levels of head starts and varying levels of privilege. And so the challenge for me was do not compare what they have with what you have. And if I really, really believe that the Lord supplies everything I need.

If I really believe that Psalms 23 is right, that I have what I need. And one of my favorite scriptures, God has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness. So if I have what I need for what's next, then I can't, if I start comparing, well, God, they've got a great marriage. I didn't. Well, God, they've got, I mean, they have parents that set them up. I didn't.

Lord, they had people make introductions for them. I didn't. And so rather than shake my fist at God for his decisions about me, I had to get in line. And you said one of my favorite words, strategy. Strategy comes when you stop looking at what you don't have and you look at what you do have.

Strategy comes when you stop looking at what you don't have and say, what do you do have? What do you have in the house? What do you have in your hand, Moses? You won't get a strategy until you recognize what God has already done. And then actually believe that.

He's going to use this little bit. And so I had to flip the script in my own mind and say, well, if they got all that, that's because they needed it. Yeah. Right. Right. Because otherwise, let me tell you something. Let me tell you. Let me tell you something.

Had God not put me in this family, there's no way that I would be in ministry. It's not. I mean, I just wouldn't do it. I just wouldn't do it. I just needed all of this push. I just needed. You know what I needed? I needed all of these people.

to respond from the onset to say you've got something because I don't think I would have believed it had it just been one person. But because I'm in this family where you open your mouth and more people listen than they would listen if you were just maybe on a corner, it's both scary and affirming. It's scary in that if you mess up,

everyone's listening, but it's affirming and that if there's a grace and an anointing on your life, then God's going to allow that response to come back from people. And I am so intimidated by the platform and the influence and the pressure that I would rather not like in my gut, I would rather not, but I think God said, let me drop her over here. Which is a qualifier for you. Let me tell you, one of the things I said

about you and my immediate exposure was this woman knows how to handle an inheritance well. Mm-hmm.

And so what God gave you, you needed the call on your life to be identified quickly. Wow. But you're also born not just in a family called to ministry, but you were born into a family full of grace. So perfectionism was never chained to your neck. Yeah. So you had the room to develop your own identity and your own story. Yeah.

And so I do firmly believe like Moses needed to be in the basket. And you needed to be in that particular family. I needed to be in the atmosphere. Listen, I was in a place that I thought was a hard place to learn.

Man, I mean, like this is a hard place to learn ministry as a woman, as a woman of color, as a leader, as a lady teaching leadership in a mega situation. I thought it was a hard place to learn. But when I got out, O-U-T out, then I went back and said, oh, now it makes perfect sense why I had to be there.

Now it makes perfect sense. And so being able to work what you have, work with your crumbs is to recognize if this is what I got, this must be what I need. OK, so you got to tell me he ain't going to short me now. Right. Yeah, surely not. Surely he wouldn't call me and then not give me what I needed for the call.

Come on. Surely he's not going to say live holy and not give you the Holy Ghost. Yeah. Yeah. Surely he's not going to say, you know, go into all the earth and not give you authority. He said, all authority is given unto me. I'm giving it to you. Now go. As you know, as a leadership teacher, I tell folks, if you give someone responsibility without authority, it's frustration. Yeah. Yeah.

God does never come to frustrate us. Now, listen, I had to learn all of this. It wasn't like I woke up one day and looked in my little pocket like Jack and the Beanstalk. And I was like, you know, if this is all I have, it must be all I need on my mind.

You know, no, I did go through my seasons of frustration. God, where are you? God, why have you left me with just this? God, you know, all of the questions. But he's not intimidated by our questions. He welcomes them.

I mean, he welcomes them. Let's talk about it. Yeah, no. So you ask God these questions like, why? How? Where are you? This isn't enough. I'm not enough. Like, I'm not enough. That's, I think the greatest...

Yes.

Because when you feel like a crummy person, like I'm barely put together and I'm always falling apart. Like I am a crummy, I'm a crummy person. And God, you're calling me to do something that should require solid and strength and confidence. And yet you're using these crumbs. And I think that that's where...

The marveling, that's where the awe and God's strategy and God's purpose comes into play. Because it's like, how could you take these crumbs and place them in this fire and it come out like this? I think that's what fascinates me about God.

It does. And I think a part of it was learning that, you know, we sing these things, we pray these things and we say, father, I want to give you glory. Yeah. Lord, let my life give you glory. Lord, how can I glorify you? And the Lord says, display your weaknesses. No, is there another way? You're breaking that. You're breaking that. Yeah. I can't hear you. And I think a huge part of that is,

I tell people, especially if Jesus was picking a basketball team, he wouldn't pick Charles Barkley like that hilarious commercial. He would actually pick the little short kid with the glasses that have the tape in them with the gym shoes that don't cost $100. Yeah.

I mean, he would actually pick that kid. So then when that kid went up for the slam dunk, everybody would say, oh, my God. They would know Jesus is real. God is real. So a part of it, because you have a little is not an indication that God wants to do little with your life. Yeah. Because you have a little is an indication of the amount of glory God's going to get with your big life.

Because he feels that's where that tension that we both feel, everybody called to do anything feels, is we look at who we think we are, what we believe we have, and the distance God has called us to go with it. And that gap in the middle...

When you feel like these crumbs aren't enough to do much. And then the call is churning. You call me to be a mother or you called me to be a wife or launch my business or elevate to the C-suite or even just to get it together, get my thinking together. You've called me to do these things, but I don't have the models. I don't have the friends. I don't have the template. You feel like all you have is just these little crumbs. Right.

But because they're from God, it's not like someone else gave you something little.

You know, the old folks used to say little becomes much, you know, because what you have is from him, the supernatural element with your faith and that little, the amount of glory that God gets is it's, it's amazing. You know, the Bible talks about that weight of glory. So much more than we could ever imagine, particularly when we start with little.

And you got to start with the little. And we want to start with so much. Like if when I have a whole lot of confidence, when I have a whole lot of peace, when I have a whole lot of joy, when I have a whole lot of education, a whole lot of finances, then I will start because I want to feel certain in my own ability. And yet when we're talking about working with crumbs, I can't, I'm just thinking about God making Adam in the garden out of dirt, which looks like crumbs.

And God's like, if you can trust what I can do with crumbs, you won't think that you need everything in order to get started. And I think if we're really going to believe that we're made in the image of God, that means that we have to trust that when we are given crumbs, that there's a miracle in the crumbs. So we get to get fired up about that.

Mm-hmm. And the idea of some of the crumbs that God has used in my life, small little sparks, like one idea. Yeah. Where, you know, sometimes you'll get a thought from God, it'll feel like the first raindrop. Yeah. And the first thing you think is, is it raining? You know, you'll get an idea from God and you'll say, wow, is that God? Yeah. It seems so tiny. It's just a little crumb. But if you work that idea,

If you sit with him and ask questions, if you strategize around it, if you can't do the whole thing, do the first thing, you'll be amazed at everything big with God starts small. Everything big. So what crumbs are you currently working on that are getting you fired up in this season? Yeah.

I tell you what, I am releasing, you know, I've been training leaders for years and I'm releasing my first e-course. And yeah, it's fun. It's entitled Rules of Engagement for a Professional Family because you don't have to sacrifice professionalism to treat people like family. And one of the things we're discovering, companies are losing people. They can't keep good people. And so, yeah.

So I asked the Lord this year, and this is a recommendation I would say to anybody, Lord, what do you want out of me this year? What do you want out of me? And he said, build your online library. So if you think about a library, you're thinking about volumes and volumes and resources. And so I thought, okay, let's just start with one.

Of course, I would love to start with 10. Right. Because everybody, we want to show up big. Social media wants everybody to show up big. But it takes humility. And humility is a part of your partnership agreement with the Lord. And so it takes humility to say, hey, I'm just going to start with this and my little team of three people. And we're going to create something for the purpose of helping. How about if we can help one organization grow?

Create a culture where good people want to stay. Let's just do that. And at the same time, maintain your levels of professionalism, ethics, and even profitability. Let's just work on that small thing. If you can get fired up about that, your passion will do the rest. Your passion, it'll do the rest. God will give it to you.

Okay, so I hate to interrupt all of this good conversation, but I wanted you to know that I want to talk to you too. I want to hear your story. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions. You can send me your application, your video to be a co-host to podcast.

Podcasts at womanevolved.com. Let me know what it is you want to talk about, why it's important to you that you be on the podcast. Maybe you're like, girl, I am not going to be on anybody's podcast. I don't do talking to people. First of all, this is a sign. Overcome yourself. But if not, you can send me an advice question. Podcasts at womanevolved.com. Okay, let's get back to the podcast.

This is so I preached a message about living outside of the system and the introduction, the setup was really centered around companies shifting from being results oriented to employee oriented because especially with the generation that wants to feel passionate. I want to feel like what I do matters. If I'm put into a system that makes me feel like it's only about output and results, then I do lose my passion. And yet you're saying that there's an opportunity to really have both.

Oh, yeah. There's absolutely an opportunity to have both. If you treat people like they're people and don't treat them like they're machines, if you decide to place people based on how they're created and how they're made, and if you give people room and...

And and give them room to grow, be themselves. And then most people are attracted to either who they think they are or who they want to be. That's why representation. You got a little brown daughters. That's why representation matters there. The reason why we love seeing people that look like us in the arts is because it inspires the little ones to say, oh, that's that's who I want to be. That's what I want to do.

If you're creating an environment that has the standards that people aspire to, that's who you're going to attract. And so to say if we have an environment that's creative, you're going to attract creative people. But you can't find the most brilliant creative people out there and then put them in the seat and then shut down their creativity with fear, restraints.

those kinds of things. So when I say I'm fired up over just that, it's just a little workshop that I've trained everywhere. Ha ha ha!

Little workshop, trained everywhere. But I'm telling you what, you never know what one thing could light the whole fire. Well, let me tell you, I am going to be coming off of sabbatical soon, but this is what I want to do. Like, I want to take your course. I want to be your guinea pig because it sounds like you're laughing and I'm being serious. Yeah.

I would love it. I want to be your guinea pig. I will just send it my way. Let me know. Have your people call my people. Your people are my people. So we should be able to work something out here. You know what I hear you saying, though? And I don't even know if I can articulate this the way that I am processing it in my mind. But when you said that if you treat a person like a person and not like a machine, you

It kind of made me feel like what we're really called to is to really always see people as crumbs. And I want to say this the way that I'm hearing it in my mind, that at the end of the day, I think we're longing to have relationships, organizations, dynamics that ultimately become machines where they're on autopilot. The love is always there. The children are always obedient. Yes.

And yet when you were speaking, I'm wondering if our greatest asset to our relationships and benefits that actually see people as as one part, as one small, fragile, singular crumb in a big world, in a big system, in a big.

culture and to tend to that crumb intentionally and to resist the need to see people as maybe stronger than they are or more resilient than they are, but to really care for them in a way that honors their potential, but also meets them where they are.

Let me tell you, you said it in such a gracious way and I so appreciate it. You know, even with friendships, with relationships, we want everything perfected, tailor-made and ready for us. And yet we want people to give us room to grow and develop and become. And if we open our hearts to love, and this is my definition, contending for your highest good.

If we can really open our hearts to love and say, okay, God has put certain people in my life, in my world, in my company, in my friendship circle, in my church, in my small group, wherever they are. And every person you meet is a whole story. And you don't know in what chapter of their story you're meeting that person.

And you don't know where they're going all the time. Yeah. You don't know. You know, I remember leaving my house one day and, you know, I have my list. I love productivity. I have a little bit of an addiction to productivity. I just like to check the boxes. In fact, if I do things that are not on the list, I go back and write them on the list so I can check them off. Testify. Yes. Yes.

And so I had my list. I'm going to go here. I'm going to do this. I'm going to go here. I'm going to do this because this is my world and I got to get my things done. And as I was leaving the house, the Lord said, hold up, hold up. Most people you meet today are going to be dehydrated, sleep deprived, or have unprocessed trauma. Slow down and don't see people as props in your story today.

You're going to encounter people today. Wow. And so you can't take everything personally or walk by someone hurting that you could actually say just one kind thing.

slow down and recognize we're in this thing together. Yeah. I'm just marveling at the fact that you dehydrated, sleep deprived. It's like you were reading my bio. It's like, oh, wow. I didn't know. But yeah, you're going to encounter people today. They may not all jump and snap and go as quickly as you want them to go because people have their

They have lives. You know, that reminds me so much of when the pandemic first began. And I remember going to the grocery store and seeing everyone in their mask. And I thought to myself, wow, we are all literally one exposure away from at the time was a life-threatening exposure. Yes. Life change, not just life-changing, life-threatening exposure.

And I really felt like I told me like we're always one exposure away from a life-threatening situation.

circumstance, a life-threatening situation. And that changed the way that I just saw people. And it's so easy to get back in that autopilot. The world's opening up. Things are going back to normal. But there's still one phone call, one text message, one bad doctor's report, one financial decision away from everything falling apart in their world. And I don't know. I think when we first... And them being left with crumbs. Yes. No, that's...

That's what I was just thinking. I was like, when we first set this theme, we were talking about the woman who Jesus has this encounter with at the table. And she says, I'll take the crumbs. And if you just give me the crumbs from the master's table, even the dogs eat the crumbs from the master's table. So surely you could bless me. And I think that we, I initially saw this as an opportunity for us to really create in women, this desire to say like, God, anything that you throw my way, I can work

with it, you know, and it was supposed to be really empowering. But I also think there's a compassion angle that's being unearthed as we have this conversation that will maybe not just empower us, but we won't be bulldozers while we build. Because I think, yes, you know, in order to build, I think that we feel like I got to be beast mode. I got to be willing to knock people down.

to make it happen. But I think that culture, that way of doing things is over and there is a compassionate way to steal progress without having to knock people over in the process.

Absolutely. Because listen, there's a whole picture that the Lord gave me probably 20 years ago. I was brand new in ministry. I was determined. I'm going to put, I mean, I'm going to make a difference in this world. And the Lord showed me a team of people climbing a hill, taking a mountain. They get to the top of the mountain. They plant the flag of the Lord. I mean, the bloodstained banner. Absolutely.

And they are ready to salute the King of Kings. And the Lord comes out and says, what's that on your shoes? Oh, that's just the guts of the people I had to stomp to get here. But I made it because I'm a boss. I made it. Yeah. There is a way for you to win.

That does not permanently damage anybody but the devil. Now, yes, you got people disappointed in your victory because they don't understand that God has a plan for them. You know, you're always going to have you're not you're not you're not doing what God's called you to do for the applause of men.

But there is a way that you can win in the Lord that does not allow you to devour other people. We can get to the top and not have blood on our teeth and devour other women, devour other leaders, devour folks that are doing in our same field, or maybe even devour people that don't think like us, believe like us yet.

You know, maybe people that have made some bad decisions in their life. There's a way for me to win without having you for lunch. Goodness. So we have to not override that.

how easy it is once we've been given power, right? Because you weren't talking about working with crumbs. Once those crumbs turn into whatever God's going to do and you're given power and influence, we have to override the ease of using our power to get what we want or to treat people any kind of way because we have arrived. I'm thinking about David in scripture and

And when he got in trouble, it's when you like you too big for your britches. Like you think you're somebody out here and you need to remember. And he was correctable. And I think that if we're going to climb any mountain, if we're going to pursue any level of growth, that we can't just fear getting it wrong. We have to know that getting it wrong may be a part of the course, but we have to respond.

with change and conviction in those moments that we get it wrong. We have to be willing to go back to that crumb state and to really have divine connection with God so that we can build again without this time stepping on someone in the process. And that's what I desire like for my life over anything as I continue to see like

The influence grows, the platform grows. Like, I think one of my greatest fears is that I will start to believe that I am beyond conviction or that I will believe that I am beyond being corrected. I don't want to, I don't want to.

I don't want to lose me in the process of it. I don't want to believe the hype. And so though it's painful and though it's humbling when you find out like that you're raggedy, it also keeps me close to God because it helps me to remember like,

You still got growing to do and that's okay. First of all, that's such an amazingly healthy perspective to have to say, God, I don't want to lose me. I don't want to lose my understanding that apart from you, I can do nothing. Yeah.

Can I give you a commercial? Please. There's a phenomenal book called Get Ready to Fly. And in the book... Okay. Who wrote that book? Who wrote Get Ready to Fly? Oh, I did. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Where can we find that book? Let's finish the whole commercial. Oh, okay. You can find it at PamRoss.com. Okay, love this. But the book...

But the book is about preparing your soul to soar, preparing yourself for elevation, because as you elevate, there are going to be fewer and fewer people who will tell you the truth about you. And so you obviously have a culture around you because your culture comes from the heart of the leader. So you have a culture around you that says, oh, no, I want to stay open to adjustment, to

to correction. I want to hear the ideas of the people around me, because if not, you're going to, you don't want to end up being the naked emperor where everybody just kind of goes along because you're paying us, but we're not, but you're completely uncovered, you know? So this idea of, hey, I want to succeed with the crumbs that God gave me. But when I get my seat at the table, I don't

I don't want to look down on the next person who's got crumbs. You know, I think about this lady coming in

has a desperate need. Yeah. My daughter, she has a desperate need. Her child is sick. She can't heal this baby. And then Jesus is like, I'm not called to you. You know, she's like, well, just give me some crumbs. I'll work that. He gives her the word. Yeah. She doesn't get up and tell everybody in the room. See, told you she doesn't go back and tell the bouncer, try to keep me out. Hey, I'm heading back to my kid. I came in.

I got what I needed. I'm coming right back out. It's not always our job even to get everybody else at the table straight. She didn't want to be at the table with them. She just needed what she needed from God. And it wasn't, you know, she could have resented the fact I'm a woman. I'm not Jewish. I'm not a leader. I need to get an invite here. Straight up, I crashed. You know, I just, I snuck in the servant's quarters. I'm just trying to get my miracle, sir. And never, never,

I never saw any resentment from her to the Lord about her situation. And I love that example that just because somebody else has something you don't have doesn't mean that God loves them more or that his plan for you isn't great. You just got to work what you got, work what you got, and God will make it happen for you.

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therapist via phone, video or live chat. So you don't have to see anyone on camera. Mental wellness is just one click away with BetterHelp Online Therapy. That's so good. It's so full circle that I don't want to mess it up. I want to jump right into the advice question because if I pile on top of that, I'm going to mess it up. But yeah.

Man, I love speaking to you. I think you're brilliant. Oh, thank you so much. It's a tremendous joy. It is a joy to meet you. You're phenomenal. Just love it. So thanks. Okay, here's our advice question. As a young lady trying to walk in her calling, I have discovered that everything I do or not do, everything I say or not say, it's under a microscope.

I feel pressure from everywhere and don't have anyone in ministry that can help me make sense of it. I love listening to your teaching. Could you give me some guidance on this issue? I want to hear from you first. Wow. OK, I would say to this person, if they are this beautiful sister, it sounds like her heart is to do right by God, but at the same time, not disappoint everyone else around her.

And so there's going to have to come a time where you get hyper-focused. Is God pleased with me? Because pressure will throw you off pace, right?

And you'll find yourself showing up. It'll be like that nightmare people have where you show up at school and you're not dressed or you're just dressed from the top up. You'll show up. The pressure of people will have you out of pace. And so God is preparing you. He's undressing. There's some deliverance happening. He's washing and giving you healing. He's dressing you for the place you're going. And it's happening all

on the way. Sometimes people around you get so excited because they can see where God is taking you and they want you to hurry up and get there. Slow down. Don't feel, I won't say don't feel the pressure. Don't let the pressure move you. Find your pace, find your rhythm. God, what's next? I had to believe I'm going to live a long life. And so that's why I ask him, what do you want from me this year?

What's my long-term strategy? I've already had conversations with God about my 60s. So let's walk out these 50s and let's get done what you want. So yeah, that's what I would say. And then also seek out a mentor, ask the Lord to send you in a direction of someone that you can either have a in-person or virtual relationship with, or even be mentored through their books.

their writings, someone that you can kind of watch how God dealt with them. And you can begin to learn not about them, but about God.

We can learn about him, his ways through his word and how he deals with people. So as you understand God's character, it's going to help you walk with him better. That's so good. I said a lot. No, not at all. It was exactly what we needed to hear. I think that this generation lives under a microscope. It's

part of the reason why social media is so successful. And so when you begin walking out your life on faith, you're going to be under that same microscope. Only this time, your faith is going to be highlighted because that's what you're choosing to display. That can be beautiful to God, scary for you and questionable for other people. And that's just the reality. But to be able to say like, God, did I do what you told me to do? Did I say what you told me to say?

finding your hope and your peace and your comfort in that question being answered is the only thing that will quiet every other noise when it's all said and done. I used to get, and I still get nervous when I speak, but I've kind of, I've got this shoulder shrug about it when I finished. It's like, I'm not going to dissect what I didn't say, what I should have said, what I messed up. I have to be able to say, did you say what God told you to say? And the

Only time I'm frustrated now is when I feel like I didn't say what God told me to say. And that's like when I'm up there, that's my only goal. I'm going to get this out. I'm not trying to go viral. I'm not trying to shift the room. Like we're going, you know, we're doing our tour. And I'm like, listen, I don't know what's going to happen. All I know is that I want to be able to say that I said what God told me to say, because the pressure is not going to go anywhere. The pressure is inside of you. It's outside of you. So you got to be able to talk back to pressure.

Yes, you do. And let it know you're not going to move me. You might try to push, but my feet are going to move at the pace of God. Let me tell you, I've been in that same place. And the Lord had to, he deals with me a lot with humor. It's just how he knows in each of us individually. And he said to me, Pam, have you ever seen your postman put something in your mailbox and go back and sit in the truck and bite his nails? Wow. Like, I sure hope she open that. Ooh, Lord, if she don't pay that big. No, no, no, no. Ha ha.

You are my delivery system. I've called you because I know you'll open up. You'll study. You'll show up. You'll deliver with passion and love and then go and pray for them after. But you got to trust that the same way I speak to you, I'm speaking to them. So, yeah, shake that. I feel the same thing. I mean, I still feel it. But at the same time, we know, God, you're with me. You're going to help me. And you're right. We got to shake it off.

And they'll be reading your bio and you're like... Right, like who is that? I don't even know. Who is that? Where is she? I've never heard of her before. I didn't know. I made them change my bio because a part of it that says Sarah Jakes Roberts expertly balances career parenting. I was like, y'all need to take that out of there. Are you kidding me? Sarah is doing the best that she can to juggle, but she doesn't know how to juggle and she doesn't have rhythm. And y'all think it looks cute because you only caught 10 seconds. I want the bio to tell the truth, but...

We should write our own brand new bios to say, Dr. Pam Ross has a laundry. And she probably should be folding that, but she's talking to you anyway. Yeah.

It's truth. It's honesty. Just throw in a few real lines in that bio to help people relax. I do. I think it would help people not feel so disconnected from the person who's up there. So like my prayer is that I always stay authentic and real so that people see themselves in me because Lord knows I see myself in them and we're all on a journey together.

I'm grateful for journeying with you today. It was a lot of fun. It is amazing. Thank you so much. And you need to know you're hitting it out of the park. You're outrageously relatable. And to women of various generations, you speak to right where we are. You speak to the reality of us wanting to partner with God and just live a life that brings up glory and gives us joy. So I thank God for you. I just declare the blessings of the Lord over you in every way.

thing you touch absolutely everything get ready for more I'm going up from here I'm nervous thank you so much this was amazing thanks take care

this conversation. I am so full. Like literally, if cup running over was a person, insert SJR's photo because that's how I feel. I hope you feel the joy. My cheeks are hurting from smiling and receiving from Miss Pam Ross. I hope you enjoyed it. I want you to run it back a few times. I know I'm going to. Miss Pamela, thank you for carving out time in your busy schedule to hang with the delegation. It was totally

and completely my honor. Now listen, if you or someone you know is interested in being the next co-host or if there's an advice question you'd like for me to answer, hit my inbox at podcast at woman evolved dot com. All co-host submissions must include a one to two minute video about yourself and why you'd make a great co-host or we're going to send that email right back to you. OK, put your video in there. I love you guys. I'll see you next week.

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