Placement of Your Knowledge w/ Yasmine Cheyenne
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Can't bless who you pretend to be or who you compare yourself to he can only bless you and the lane that was created for you You don't need no edge entity you need boundaries What? I don't need your likes I don't need your validation All I need is a God fighting for me that says all things All things All things Child

Make no mistake, we learn something new every single day. It's how we apply that knowledge that determines who we have the potential to evolve into, even if it means unlearning a thing or two. For the sake of when you know better, you'll do better, I invited my girl, Yasmin Cheyenne, to teach us all the things from creating boundaries to self-healing. Sis is basically a guru, and let me tell you something, you're going to be better as a result of it. Let's go. ♪

So I have to tell you, I don't I think, oh, because of my Explorer page, one of your graphics came up on my Explorer page. And then, of course, I go to stalk your page and I'm like, she's giving what needs to be gave. But I'm just telling you that I was stalking you. I love the compassion that you have when speaking to us, when navigating our wounds and our issues.

So I am mostly excited to speak to you this week for my own selfish indulgence. Everyone else gets to just kind of ear hustle on this conversation. But thank you so much for joining the podcast. I appreciate you.

Thank you for having me. I just want to quickly say that I'm just honored to be here. You know, I live in D.C., so I don't attend One L.A., but I'm a One L.A.er. I'm a potter's house. I've already got my tickets for Women of All. I'm in a circle. So it's just it's awesome when you get to do something with people that you love their work. You understand it. So thank you. I am.

Looking forward to next year. I feel like I should be like, I don't know, overwhelmed and in over my head, which I'm probably all of those things somewhere, but I do feel a lot of peace about everyone coming together. I don't know if you've ever been to a woman evolve event, but I mean, we had 3000 women last year, which for me was like, it's in the middle of the pandemic. I'm like, this is a lot of women to have out. So for that to be multiplied right now, we're at almost 18,000. I think my greatest prayer is,

has been like, how do I still create this sanctuary, this sacred space, even with all of these women there? And I think if every woman comes in in this sacred space within herself, that it'll just multiply. But I'm really looking forward to cultivating an environment of...

Love of care of nurturing and of growth. And I feel like this podcast is going to be a part of the conversations that we continue to have as we lead into our event. And so I'm wondering, how would you define the work that you do?

Oh, I love that. I think my work is an invitation. I'm always trying to get people to understand how you can learn so much through curiosity. And I think we're not as self-aware as we are about other people's business.

And I think that I'm always trying to invite people back to, but what's really going on for you? Why is that triggering you? Why are you talking about her dress? Why are you, you know, there's something going on within you. And often when we bring it back to ourselves, we see the sadness, the feelings, the emotion, whatever it is that's actually under the surface of our judgment, our resentment, our anger. So that's what I think that I, that's what I hope that I'm inviting my community to do, to look,

within. I already, I love an invitation. I hope that part of what I do feels invitational. I think that especially in a place of faith, I think that as we seek to serve this generation, that they want to go on a journey and not

have an authority figure who is mandating how they should walk and where they should walk and what those steps should be. And I think that my goal is to be, I mean, Jesus is an invitation for you to come, you know what I mean? Into relationship with him. And I think that if we can continue that walk,

heart posture, that spirit posture of like, I just want to invite you to have an encounter, to not be perfect, to not have it all together, to bring your wounds, bring your scars, bring your identity, bring what you think to be true about yourself and bring it into this space where

where curiosity can lead the way. And I feel like you do a masterful job of doing that with your work. I love what you said about us being triggered by, especially the way other people live their lives, because that is something, yes, that I have found myself doing.

guilty of. And I can tell you, even as, I guess I'm in women's empowerment now, but I haven't always been this way. There were so many times when I was threatened by another woman walking in boldness, threatened by another woman walking in purpose. And I know that it was a direct reflection of my own insecurity. And I can still see her peeking out every now and then, especially the more

exposure that I receive, I think the more inadequacy I flirt with. And so I'm questioning myself in ways that maybe I wouldn't question myself before. Do you think that success...

is an illusion because most of us feel that success will be that space in which we no longer feel inadequate, insecure. We feel confident, we feel purposeful. But I have found that I feel like success can actually make you more insecure and more unstable in your confidence, in your identity.

I totally agree. I think there is a naiveness that comes with thriving and wanting to grow and wanting to. And it's a we need the naiveness, because if we didn't have it, then we would be like, oh, that's what you get when you're successful. Oh, that's what happens when you come. It's like this blind. We're so caught up in the idea of what our dream can become. Wow. I have found that success is when you really find out what you're doing.

are, what those spiritual demons are, what all of those things come. I mean, you're married. So, you know, like when you're planning a wedding, for example, those are the moments when you find out who your friends are, who's jealous, who's angry. I don't know what it is about weddings, but I think they become just they they create an atmosphere where people begin to question their own lives and in comparison to someone else's life.

based on their perception of what their life is, not what their life actually is, but what they're judging their life to be. And I think the same thing happens with success. People put you on a pedestal. They believe that you don't have a real story. They think you don't have real things going on. And I always like to remind people this quote by Dr. Maya Angelou, where she says, you know, she talks about people having a story and that if you say yes to

to their success, then well, you have to say yes to the whole thing. You can't just get the part that looks glittery. You're going to get everything that's coming with it. And I really find for myself that, you know, having moments of success or what people, the world deems as success, I've had to remind myself that the projections of others isn't an invitation for me to question why I'm here.

And I think that I'm often like, oh, they're thinking this about me. Does that mean that I don't belong here? No, they're thinking this about them. And it's hard because when you're in that situation, you're thinking, oh, this is evidence that I don't belong. And it's actually just evidence of their projection or their trigger and perhaps an invitation for me to ask myself how I can stand firmer and stand stronger and stand more grounded in the knowing that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.

Okay, she's stressing me already because I feel like I might have to go deep. I might have to tell you my business. I don't know how I feel about it. I think it's the voice. It's the way that you're delivering. I don't enjoy it. But okay, so you have said, you just said, let me tell you what you told me. You told me that you think success is knowing your triggers and knowing your trauma and knowing

Nobody wants to do this work like me. I am nobody like I I want to get to a space where I don't have the triggers, where I don't have the trauma and I'm no longer governed by it or ruled by it. And I become frustrated with myself constantly.

Mm-hmm.

the knowledge that it exists into my perspective. So I'm no longer surprised or tormented when those triggers take up space in my mind, but I can see it clearly for what it is. Is that what you just told me? Cause I don't like that. Listen, I don't like it. You know, it's, it's the, it's the,

It's the idea that, oh, I'm supposed to get good at healing. Like why we have this perception that there's going to be perfectionism in this. I'm going to like, there's a checklist, like throwing all of that away. There's never going to be a moment where we arrive. That's the thing. Like there is no arrival point. Yes. We're stepping into new versions of ourselves. Yes. We're accepting new challenges. Sometimes we're initiated. Sometimes I know in my life, God is like, oh,

here's this new opportunity. I'm like, man, I just want to have a normal month. And, you know, can I just be normal this month? And then I realized that even that seeking of normalcy, everyone is going through something. Everyone has something that they're going through. The facade, the TV facade, the fairytale facade is that there is going to be a point where there is nothing. And I think I...

When I see you on stage, not on stage, but at the pulpit, when I see you pastoring, it's and I and I experienced this and I don't know you personally, so I'm not trying to speak for you. But what I'm experiencing is someone who is stepped fully into their purpose and the human part no longer matters as much as the purpose part.

Yeah. And I think that that's what, you know, I'm in my work, too. There's there's moments where I have to do something. And I'm like, the human part of me is like, I cannot believe I even said yes to this. But the purpose part of me is like, there's no other choice.

And so every time I do that, I'm not doing that with the understanding that everything is going to work out. I have no idea what's going to happen. I'm trusting that because I'm stepping into what I'm supposed to be doing. And I think it's the same thing for healing. I have no idea how it's going to turn out. I have no idea what's going to happen on the other side of this. But I have to be willing to take the chance to see what I'm going to be given or what's going to

fulfill me or what abundance waits for me by saying yes. Okay. I love this conversation because I have, you know, all of these voices in my head that can try and argue against what I know is true, but I have to ask it anyway because I just have to give space to that voice even though I know it is unreasonable and not fruitful at all. But someone's going to say like, what is the point? Like, why...

talk about the abortion? Why try and heal from the heartbreak? I'm functioning. The paycheck is still coming in. I'm still paying the bills. I don't have to deal with it. I'm not falling apart. It's taken everything I have to just stay tight together. Why would I unravel the memories, unravel the dreams, unravel the pain and the shame and be

become undone? Like, what is the point when I can just keep on existing the way that I've been existing? So we can make space for something else because it's taking up space. And I think that's the part we don't recognize. When I am sitting down, if you're in church and instead of listening to what's happening, I'm thinking about the shoes that she has on. I am not having space for what I'm there to get. Right.

My mind is already, I'm picking up on a trigger. We're distracted. And I don't believe in we're going to be in healing forever. Let's unravel every single experience we've ever had. Not healing for healing's sake. But if you're listening to this right now and you have things that are coming up that you know are on the surface, that you know are saying, look at me. I don't feel like I belong.

I'm worried that I won't get married. I'm worried that I won't make up with my children. Those things that are on the surface that we're distracting ourselves with other things. Those things are taking up the space that we could be having, building something different. The things that you say you want for your life, I feel like the things we don't heal are the things that are taking up the space.

And so when we think about energy or when we think about even spirit, we're making space for that to exist. And I know like, you know, I don't know what is moving through. I know what's moving through you, God, but I don't know what it feels like when it's moving through you. When you are literally relieving someone of something that they've been carrying, that the Holy Spirit has now given you the space to relieve from them.

I believe that we also have part of that responsibility ourselves when we carry God within us to do what we can in our human space to make space, energetic space for the things that are weighing us down to no longer be something that we're saying yes to. We can't influence everything that's going to come in because life's going to life. But the things that we're choosing, I think that that's our responsibility to start to choose something different.

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Thank you.

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What are your thoughts on how this work marries with, I'm not even going to say faith, I'm going to say religion. I want to know what role you think, I hate to say traditional church, but I'm going to say it, like the traditional church philosophy of maybe religion.

You just get saved. I'm going to say just religious because I don't know. It gets weird when you start talking about church. But I do think that there is a line of thought in some circles of religion, some circles of Christianity that deflects.

from the type of work that would allow for someone to go back into their history, to get those things that are yet on the surface that keep us from having genuine encounter with God.

Because it's just something you should pray over or something you should just get over. But this intricate work of what seeds were planted by the enemy, what seeds were planted by doubt. I don't know that this is the type of work that we spend a whole lot of time doing in some traditional faith spaces. And I'm wondering, do you think that that has played a role in people maybe leaving faith?

or leaving church because there is this longing within, no matter how you slice it, there's a longing within to be reconciled, to make sense of what has occurred, to maximize what is still available. And if we don't do this work of reconciliation, I don't think we can afford to just keep moving as if it has not happened. Absolutely. I think that there's a lot of things. The first thing I'll say is,

I think there's a lot of people that have experienced church hurt. I did not. In my personal experience, my mom was like, I'm going to let you choose whether you want to be a part of church life or not. And so I actually didn't choose church until I was an adult. And my first church service was at the Potter's house. Someone I was dating took me to the Potter's house. And I was like, oh, I can do this. So that was my that was my first introduction to, you know, to church.

or religion. And I think that there is such a powerful step that we can take as adults in reminding ourselves that we cannot...

undo all of the things that we experience. If you have church hurt, if you have all of these things that have happened in religious institutions, you may not be able to undo them. And this goes for anything that we've experienced. We may not be able to undo the fact that your mom or your parent didn't give you the love that you wanted. You may not be able to undo the relationships that ended or the things that you chose that are no longer working. But we do have power and what we can choose now and how we can use our discernment to help us to really be able to

choose and grounded decisions in ways that really align with what we want today. And I think wellness overwhelmingly works beautifully if you are in this religion, if you are in a religious space. Now, I will say that

I identify as Christian. I do not put that often into my work, not because I'm embarrassed by it, because I am very clear that I am not a teacher of this work. And I don't want anyone to ever get confused that they should come to me for that kind of work. They should go to you. They should go to church. They should go to their pastor.

But I do believe that the work that I'm doing and the things that I say and how it comes out, I know that there is no doubt that it is coming from God because it could not be me. And I believe that we're all given those individual gifts. And so I'll say this. I think it's important to...

And this is the way that I teach it. I think it's important to honor that human, that human aspect, that human experience we're having. We are humans on earth and there are things happening that are hurting our human hearts and affecting our human minds. And I think that often those things even make us feel like I'm not going to be accepted at church. They're not going to like me. They're not going to want me. I'm not worthy of Jesus. I'm not worthy of God. And then when you begin to get away from those layers and see that there is something

I hope that there is change, that you can choose differently, that you can make different choices, whether you're Christian or not, whether you're Jewish, no matter what you are, you can find a faith that speaks to you. And especially if you're not in it because you think that you don't belong or you're too unworthy to come into it, which are so many people feel because of the rhetoric that's often used. I think that

If anything, it's helping people to find that they can do both. You can have God and you can have your therapist. And there's nothing wrong with you if you pray and also make space for your mental health. Have you always been like this open or did something trigger you? Did something initiate you into this space of like really being reflective? Yeah.

I've always had a curiosity about why people say or do the things that they do and genuinely wanting to understand, not from a place of why is she crazy, but more so like what happened to her? Wow.

And I think that that evolved into a curiosity that made me reflect, well, then why have I said and done the things that I've done? And it's made me so much more empathetic, not a pushover, but also just really like, OK, this person is hurting and they're not for me.

But I understand why they're doing this. And so but I will say this. When I was on active duty in the military, I was a victim advocate and I worked with people who were victims of crime and victims of sexual abuse. And that kind of cracked me wide open. It was at the same time I had just so interesting to be talking to you about this. I had just went to the Potter's house the year before I deployed.

I had joined the church. Like I was like gung ho, like, yes, for God joined the church when I was deployed in a choir. And I came back and I was a victim advocate and I just wasn't expecting that. And I was only 20 years old. I had never, I had never experienced what these women were going through or heard stories like this in real life. And I knew that I had a capacity to hold space for really hard, heavy things. As you know, you know, when people tell you those hard, heavy things, they're,

It weighed on me, but it was something that I knew I could carry and somehow release and continue to live my life. And I just knew that it was a gift. And from there, I kind of continued on that journey.

Man, okay. So I've never heard someone say that they knew they had the capacity to carry it. I think that you just gave me language because I do feel that very same way. I don't know why, but I feel like no matter what your story is, like I can hear it and find a way to love you and find a way to become you in that moment and to see life through your eyes.

and to hopefully also inspire you to move into a direction of hope and healing, regardless of what you've gone through. I love what you said about empathy. Empathy and boundaries can coexist. Empathy means that I can understand why you did what you did. And boundaries means I can make sure you never get the opportunity to do it again to me. Exactly. Exactly.

I get it. I understand. I release you. I forgive you. And it won't happen again. But that idea of being able to carry and hold space for other people. What do you do with compassion fatigue? Do you have those moments or do you are you just able to continue to ingest and release, ingest and release without having moments where you just are over and tapped out?

I have a very close group of people who I keep around me who I don't really have a lot of the issues that I used to have in my relationships where a lot of the people around me were raggedy, just for lack of a better term. And I was also boundaryless and just wanting to fit in and just wanting to belong and just wanting to be chosen.

Now, understanding that I choose myself, I choose the people around me and that they're human and they're going to disappoint me. I think that's what helps me so much with compassion because I I'm not expecting or asking for disappointment. I just know that they're going to disappoint me at some point. My kids, my husband, my friends, they're going to do something that's upsetting. And instead of and I do have that moment sometimes still where I'll say, OK,

This is why I don't ask anybody for anything. This is why, you know, I still have those moments. And then I come back to, actually, she's human. Actually, they're human. I think it's become...

Almost a reflex that I'm so grateful to have because those used to be the moments that would. And I think that's the moments for most people, especially, you know, when I work with my my clients, it's like those are the moments someone disappointed me. I can't move past this. I feel betrayed. And now I'm more so like this person disappointed me. They're human. They're probably doing the best they can. Oh, I can say, hey, you disappointed me. I can say this wasn't this me. This hurt me.

And then we can have that conversation. And I think that's what creates the grace, because usually we're carrying the resentment, the hurt, the disappointment, everything ourselves. Now I'm saying, well, you disappointed me. Can we share this for a moment? Can we talk about this? And I can release that through and have compassion for them because I know I don't have to carry it and keep it a secret within myself that I don't get to share with them.

Okay, so I'm totally this way where I always feel like people set out with the best of intentions and like maybe they were just tired. Like I've constantly rewired my mind to think that way. But I am wondering recently, like, am I doing a disservice to the reality though, that there are some people who may mean to hurt me? Like there are some people, I think especially the more that I see

growth in the exposure of my name, the exposure of the work. And, you know, there are people who say a lot of mean things. And I think sometimes...

I don't know how to guard myself from the reality that people are human and they're going to disappoint. They're going to make mistakes. But like, how do I stay open for people to disappoint me, but also stay guarded against the people who do mean to hurt me and who can enter my space at any given moment because of social media? And if you charge for the hour by this, just let me know when it's in the payment because I feel like I'm about to get some real one-on-one client coaching here. Yay!

No, you know what? This is a good question because it's a there's a clear distinction. The people who have the people who I'm opening up to potentially disappoint me are the people who have earned my trust.

People who I know aren't intentionally trying to hurt me, my husband, my kids, my my close friends, my parents, like those are the people who I'm like, OK, I know my sister wasn't trying to devastate me by rescheduling our lunch. She doesn't know what I was going through and I was looking forward to it.

The people who don't know me, the people who don't know me but think they know me. Because when you have a platform, there's so many people who feel so connected to you, but they don't know me. And so I have put a clear boundary around that.

I love my community. I'm so grateful to have them. And also there is not a reciprocal relationship here. We're not exchanging. I am holding space for them. They are receiving what I am putting out. I am here to provide for them. I can't consistently think that they're going to perform or show up in a certain way because we don't even have that kind of boundary relationship.

Yeah, they're they're going. They don't you know, you understand what I'm saying? Like there's no reciprocity in this relationship. So in a reciprocal relationship, I'm telling you what I need. You're telling me what you need. We're showing up for each other with my community. There is no reciprocity. I'm just the space holder. If you're coming to my event, you're showing up and I'm here to hold space for you. I'm here to pour into you. And so that has really helped me remind myself that.

I'm not actually in a relationship with them. And anything that they say about me is what they say about the name in front of the blue check. It's not actually about me. It's their perception of me. It's the pedestal they put me on. It's what they think I'm supposed to be. And it's been very hard at times for me, too. And also...

I know it's just I just know it's not true. And reminding myself that any mean things they're saying about me or any judgments they're making about me aren't true. They aren't the reality. I do what I call fact checking. Like, is it really true what they're saying about me? No, it's not true.

What's actually true is that I'm devastated that someone would say something like this about me online. I'm hurt. It makes me not want to do this anymore. It makes me want to just go home and pretend that none of this ever happened. And that's what makes me not want to show up. That's usually my truth. And so those are two different emotions to deal with. I don't actually have to deal with that mean person because that's just a quick block. Now I need to deal with my hurt.

And make space for the people who know me and love me to remind me of who I am and remind myself of who I am. And that's why I'm in Bible study and on church on Sunday, because I need to also be reminded of what's real versus what social media sometimes tries to make seem like real, like reality. I love that because I feel like I hear you saying like, I can't need them to be me. Like I can't need their presence.

I can't need their comments in order for me to be who I am in real life, like who I am as a person. And I think, honestly, I feel like I made this mistake early on when Woman Evolved first started. Part of the reason is because I feel like the people who began following Woman Evolved validated a gift in me that I didn't know that I possessed. Mm-hmm.

And because they validated that gift, I felt like the gift did not exist outside of them. That the gift didn't exist outside of that community. And I think that it was a dishonor to the gift that God gave me to think that it was only real if someone approved of it. And so I feel like I had to do some work, especially...

Honestly, the more it grew, because the more it grew, the more it scared me because I felt like I'm going to be responsible for so many more people. Now I'm going to be in relationship with so many more people now. And I think that it made me try to control or manipulate a grace that didn't even start with me.

And so I am reminded that at the end of the day, to your point, you know, it's the grace, it's the anointing and, you know, some personality and the language and the culture that allows for it to be effective. But it's not, you know, me with these, you know, Queen Latifah braids up underneath this wig and...

And, you know, stuffing my teeth, eating popcorn and in bed with crumbs. And like, you know, do I think people will be like, I can relate to that for sure, but we're not. And.

in an everyday relationship. And I think that it helps me because I, and then I became possessive. So people are like, you know, I really enjoyed you when you first started speaking. I don't like it now. You know what I mean? And now I'm like trying to figure out how do I continue to stay in relationship with you instead of just allowing myself to be a vessel and open and a channel and not a hoarder of God's people. They're God's people. You know what I mean? They're going to be inspired

and some of them will do life with me until I'm in my grave. And then there are going to be other people who move and say that didn't do anything for me or served me at one season and doesn't serve me now. But to allow myself to really be a vessel, I can't need the people to stay connected in order for me to be effective. So you just help me. Yes. Thank you.

glad. And you know, with the scripture you sent when you were saying it was 216, Joseph 216, when you were talking about, like when I read it, it basically validated what you just said in that or the way that I interpreted it. I am not, you know,

This is not my work, but I interpreted it in that there's going to be so many people that are going to come along and try to tell you they're going to come along with information. They're going to come along and tell you just the tidbit that you need to get to the next place. And I feel like when she was told to wait.

When she told them to wait the three days and then they could go on. I feel like so many of us are getting information from people like, oh, you need to do this. Oh, you need to do that. And we're getting like when you said the people that validated your anointing, there are people in my life who have said, you need to put your writing out there. You need to do this. And so then I felt like I was indebted to what they wanted of me. I definitely went through that. I feel like I needed to mention them every single time I did something. This is the person who, you know, put me on. Yeah.

This gift was always in me and you and in everyone who's listening. And sometimes God has to choose many different people to validate so that we have to hear it from the right person. So we'll be hearing it from everybody. And that doesn't mean that I have to shape shift or perform because they want the gift to show up in a particular way. And I think people definitely feel ownership of,

over when they have been with you from the beginning. Why are you changing? Why you got a new hairstyle? Why you got on new clothes? Your nails are different. I'm still the same person that I am. Can I glow up? You know, can we glow up together? It's really reminding people that

The show may be changing and hey, I might be doing things that are making me feel more comfortable. You think I'm changing and I'm doing what's making me feel like I can actually stand here. And I think it's so powerful when people begin to see that.

this is just what it is to be on TV or to be on stage or to be writing a book or to be doing all of those different things. The message that you're giving is still so the same. I mean, I think that's a gift too. When I think about when I heard you first speak all the way to now, it's so, I mean, you're way more powerful and you're the way that you share. You just know that woman evolved next year is going to be amazing.

But it's just the same essence. And anyway, I just want to share that with you because it felt important.

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Okay, so that's good for me and it's helping me because I think that what people, especially because we're viewers of everyone's life from the beginning of something to the maturing of something. And I think that we can lock in ourselves

on a version of someone when they're in seed form. And then when they begin to take root and we see, okay, this wasn't the fruit, this was just the seed, that we can become so longing for the seed version of who they are that we don't honor the fruit that has been connected to it. And I think that's what happened. When I first started speaking, I literally like...

We'll say I am not a speaker. Like this is not my thing. Like this is my gift and it's seed form. And to hear that what you saw in the beginning, you still experience in a different level on a different level today is really encouraging for me because I think ultimately I came to a place where I'm like, I'm just going to continue to nurture this seed and see what it becomes. And everyone's watching that because

coming and they're watching the nurturing and they're watching the seeds and they're watching things spring forth and they're watching when the fruit falls and goes through different seasons. And I think that I have to become comfortable with knowing, and this is something that I think really happened.

This last year, I really came to a place where I just came to a place where I'm like, you're going to have to be comfortable learning with an audience. Other people may get to learn and they're behind the scenes. Other people may get to make mistakes on a smaller scale, but you've got millions of followers and you're still figuring it out. And pride wants you to show up perfectly. But if you can just be comfortable saying I'm on this journey and I'm learning and I'm going to mess

up and I may not say everything the right way. And someone's going to write a YouTube channel about how I messed it up. And someone's going to do a TikTok video about what I did wrong. But at the end of the day, you're going to do this in front of people and you're going to survive it. You're going to be okay. And I think that that's probably why God had to disconnect my worth from the reception, that relationship that I was building, because I think that I would have ended up being...

more wounded than effective when those moments where I made mistakes, where I make mistakes. Absolutely. And I'm a recovering perfectionist. I self-identify recovering perfectionist. So I think reminding myself that it's not going to be perfect, but I think that's why people identify so much with your story and people who share their stories publicly, whether you have millions of followers or whether you just have a few hundred, when you share your story publicly and then you see someone get to the other side of it. When we were watching, um,

when we were watching Women That Are Loosed and we saw you become anointed. That's why, I mean, I was bawling. And I think it's because, yes, I was so thankful for what was happening for you and I was so proud of you, but it was like it was me. And I think so many people...

So many people are waiting for the moment that someone publicly validates that no matter what your story is, you are loved, you are seen, you are respected, and you are still a woman of God. That is the story that I think so many people are waiting for. And I think when we think about healing...

That is what people that's why we make the space. That's why we do the work so that when we get to the other side and there's always going to be another side and another side. But when we get to it, we can say no matter what I just went through, I'm respected. I'm seen. I'm loved. I'm deserving. And that I think that's the work that we're doing for ourselves when we say yes to this.

Okay, so I have one more question and then we have an advice question because I feel like I could just pick your brain all day. But I have to ask this. So I feel like we are serving a generation of women who are engaged deeply with this work of honoring their stories, honoring other people's story, preserving their worth in spite of it all. Like I think that there's...

Certainly a generation of women, maybe there has always been, but I feel like it's something different happening where women are really coming to this place of true empowerment, not based on climbing a ladder and proving that we are just as equal as our male counterparts, but we are just worthy because we're worthy. There are some people not engaged with this work.

other people who are stuck in old ways of thinking and how do we navigate our healing, our commitment to this work, our commitment to compassion and empathy and knowledge and awareness? How do we honor that while being in relationship, family relationship, parental relationships, friendships, maybe with people who are not as engaged with the work? Whew.

That's the work right there. I think the first part is this is the hardest part, accepting them for who they are.

This is the hardest part because not everybody wants to come. Okay, hold on now. Before you finish, before you finish. But what if they need to change? Like, it's not even up for debate. Like, you are toxic. Like, how do I accept someone for who they are when who they are is toxic? Like, you're poison. Like, you just came in and the energy shifted. Look at you. You're bitter. You're nasty. Like, how do we accept people? Yeah.

And it's real. Like how, like you just making poor decisions. Like, are you two years old? Like, how do we accept people who are out here just deciding to live in disappointment? Okay. Now finish your answer. It's going to be so good. Bless me. The truth is we accept the bitterness, the toxicity. Like you,

You literally say to yourself, this person is choosing for whatever reason to live in this toxicity, to live in this bitterness, to be judgmental, to be a thorn in my side. And I recognize that they are not interested in the change. They're not interested in what I see for them. And I think that's the second part, because once we accept that, the second part is who I know they could be. They don't want that.

And I have to grieve the hope that I have for what our relationship could bloom into.

If they would change, if they said yes to my invitation to come with me on the journey of healing, then, oh, my gosh, our relationship would just become something that is out. Unbelievable. But now, because if I hold on to your toxic, you're this or that, I'm also holding on to my hope. There's so much happening when we when our hope is deflated and we real because acceptance deflates the hope. It pops the air in the balloon. They're not coming back.

Then I have to move to allow myself to grieve the disappointment I feel that, no, I don't have to let this relationship go. Because people always ask, what if it's my mom? What if it's my sister? I don't want to leave the relationship. You don't have to leave the relationship. But you may not be able to continue into the relationship the way that you have been. You're going to have to put boundaries around. I mean, there's some people...

There are some people I know that are like, I won't be in a room with you unless there's another person. I'll see you at family events because I can't do one on one with you and having to make those hard boundary decisions because this is the other piece, the last piece. You can't have the closure you're seeking with someone who can't have a conversation with you.

They have to be willing to hear what you want to say. This is the other piece. We're doing all of the healing work on our own because when you have a relationship with someone who can hear you, who understands you, who is willing to have communication with you rather than a debate about what you're saying, then you can kind of come to a place of compromise. It's hard to come to a place of compromise with someone who's not speaking the same language as you. So you're going to have to realize that

You're going to have to move forward and they're going to sense that the relationship is changing and they may have things to say. They may call you selfish. They may call you all kinds of things about the fact that you're deciding to move forward with your life in a way that doesn't give them the same role to be codependent or toxic or violate your boundaries in the same way that they were before. Right.

But this is what choosing yourself looks like in real time. It's not being nasty. It's not necessarily having to leave them that last text so you had the last word in. We all have those moments. I'm not saying you're going to be perfect, but it's doing the hard thing of recognizing that I'm going to have to choose me. And this is the part that people...

people say are selfish. And I think you can be someone who's loving and caring and you can still have maybe a door open that they don't know about. Like if they decide that they want to walk in, I'm going to be right there. But until you make that decision, this door is closed. And that is how our relationships begin to shift. The relationship isn't going to be what we hoped it would be. It's just going to be something that ensures that we feel safe because that's what boundaries are supposed to be doing. They're not ultimatums.

creating change with the people we're in relationship with. They're creating rules that say, this is how you get to deal with me. And if you can't deal with me in this way, then we can't be in relationship in the way that we were.

I love boundaries being rules for engagement. This is what it takes to be in relationship with me. And this is the way that I like to be communicated to. This is the way that I like to be respected and honored. This is how I value my time, my resources. And when you break those rules, this is just a reminder that this is the space that I live in. And if you need to function that way, you may have to function with someone else because I choose to not live that way. I think that's impactful.

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Okay, my advice question, because listen, in a minute, I'm going to just completely pick your brain. Oh, and it's long. I like them long. Hi, Sarah Jakes Roberts and the Woman Evolve team. I have an advice question. I've been feeling so lost and empty for quite a few years now. I feel like I've been optimizing

Operating in survival mode for the past 14 years and feeling lost and empty for at least the past six. I'm at a loss as to how to jumpstart my life. I'm a shell of a person. I have run out of steam and don't know what to do to get out of this rut. I feel so lost. I've tried everything I know to get out of this space. Prayer, listening to sermons, reading books, reading devotionals, exercising, therapy, and more therapy for depression. Hmm.

Friend groups, etc and just feel so empty and at a loss. I literally have nothing to look forward to each day I'm lacking purpose and mechanically going through my life. Even when I try to do something fun. It doesn't feel fun anymore And most times i'm doing it alone. So it feels even more lonely. Don't get me wrong I enjoy my own company, but i'm doing everything alone because I really don't have anyone I don't enjoy my career, but I have no idea what i'd even like to do to begin exploring a new one

I don't have meaningful friendships. So I'm generally feeling very lonely and I'm in a loveless marriage. I really feel like God is just so over me because I can't seem to get connected or get any direction. Sometimes I question if he even really exists. I'm just so lost. I'm approaching 50 years old.

And feel like I'm running out of time for a meaningful life that I love or even like my question is, what can I do to jumpstart my life? How can I be happy and whole again and not just existing? Thanks for taking the time to listen to me. I would first want to just say thank you so much for being so brave and so vulnerable. I think one of the hardest things to do is admit that you don't like where you are and what you've chosen for yourself. And some people never do.

The first thing I would think is, first, I would invite you to give yourself some gratitude or congratulate and celebrate yourself for all of the things that you have said you've been doing. Because you said you've been out there trying to be with friends, exercising, doing all these different kinds of things. And I think sometimes with healing, there's this

that there's going to be an automatic switch and everything's just going to be fine. And unfortunately, healing is, I always say, it's for lifetime. We're doing this forever. And so we have those ups and down moments and it seems like you're in a down moment. The first thing I would say is congratulate yourself, celebrate yourself,

think about things that you love and that you enjoy and that you look forward to that would make you feel good that you can do and small things. So,

I like to have a joy list. It may sound corny, but I have a joy list on my phone. It's in my, um, my notes section and it's like 25 things. And I keep adding to it as things happen of things to do when I'm like having that day where I'm, cause we've all been there where we're like, is God, does he hear me? Do I, you know, I need a direct line. Um,

Um, and I go to my joy list and it's something that I know is going to bring me joy in that moment. Because I think one of the other things about joy, that's confusing for a lot of folks. And still for me, even though I teach this is why can't it last? Like if I'm having joy in this moment, why can the next moment feel like this moment never even happened, but by bringing joy intentionally into my life, whether it's dancing to a song, going into your garden, going for a walk, um, calling a friend, um,

FaceTiming them and laughing about a show. Those are things that...

bring me so much joy and last throughout my day. Because when you're dealing with depression, and again, I'm not a therapist, I'm not your therapist, but when you're dealing with depression, it's consuming and it's exhausting. And everything feels like work. So finding small things that you don't have to Amazon and you don't have to buy anything. You can just go into your backyard. You can listen to some music on your phone. You can do something that's going to bring you joy. The other thing that I think is really important when it comes to the loneliness is

healing or being on a journey is that I have found that it is lonely and there is no way around that part because it's a journey that you've chosen for yourself. Yes, we can do it in community. Yes, we can do it with people around us, but the things that we're healing, the things that we're working on is our work. And I think it feels so consuming sometimes when we're

we feel the gravity of what we have uncovered and what we're working through. And so I think finding spaces, whether it's a yoga class, whether it's your church, finding communities of people who are interested in the same things you're interested in and speak the same language that you speak,

so that you don't have to show up and be somebody else. You can show up just as you are, just as you're feeling, and they'll understand what you're going through. And you can begin to build new relationships because that's something that happens when we're healing often. We end up not being able to fit into the groups that we were in before in the same ways. And some of our relationships come with us. And then a lot of times we have to meet new people and make new connections so that we can make sure that we're choosing people who are choosing themselves and building the same types of lives that we desire as well.

I love that so much. And I feel like our answers are going to be so similar. I'm just going to zoom out the lens a little bit. So a few years ago, I started realizing that there were, it was actually after my book, Woman Evolved came out, it hits the New York Times bestsellers list. I'm sitting outside on my swing and my friend is like calling me screaming. She's like, you hit the

the list, you hit the list. And I was like, I know. And that's so cool. And she was like, why are you not excited? And I was like, I mean, I am like, this is me excited. This is my whole excited face. And it made me realize that like,

I had been so busy surviving my life, building my life, following the voice of God for my life, following purpose that I wasn't present in my life. Like I didn't feel present. I didn't feel joy the way that you're supposed to feel joy. I didn't feel things. So I started reading this book called permission to feel this was before I called a therapist or anything. I started reading a book called permission to feel. And

Now, who knows? I love my feelings well. And so I have my feelings well and I have permission to feel. And this book told me, let me tell you what this book told me. This book told me that you always feel something. I'm like lies and fairy tales. Like sometimes people ask me, how are you feeling? And I'm like, I feel nothing about it.

And it's like, it's not true that you feel nothing. It's just, you are so numb and so desensitized that you're calling it nothing. And so like a toddler in preschool, I would have to take a minute and go on to the feelings wheel, figure out what it was that I was trying to feel. And then from that space or what I was actually feeling from that space, begin to really engage in my prayer and my worship. God, I need a healing here. God, I need to touch there. God, thank you so much. Like my,

praise became praise and my worship became worship because I took the time to navigate some of the emotional landmines that I had learned to not fool with at all. I say all of that to say that you sound numb to me. It sounds like you're in your life, but you're not.

Yeah.

And that you're winning and that you haven't given up, which means that there is victory yet for you to behold. And then I want to encourage you to maybe take some of those tools the way that I did. And I began writing down what I would feel any given moment. I'm going to say this.

then I'm finished. I'm gonna let Yasmin go. But I, um, I was cooking dinner one day. PT comes downstairs and he's like, how long is it going to take for dinner to be ready? I'm like, it's giving 20 minutes. And he's like, I'm gonna go get something to eat. I'm really hungry. I was heated. I was upset. I know.

I was upset. And he was like, yeah. And I didn't say anything. I let him walk out. He came back. I had an attitude. Like, I mean, anger thumping in my chest. And then I went and got that feelings wheel to figure. I was like, what is this? I'm like, am I having a panic attack? Am I having anxiety attack? And then I realized like, this is anger. Like, this is what anger feels like.

And I just want to tell you that when you begin documenting your different feelings and emotions and how things show up in your life, that there are going to be moments where you are able to say, this is what joy feels like. This is what love feels like. This is what peace looks like, even if it is but for a

fleeting moment, like Yasmin said. The fact that you can identify it means that just like you have those moments of anger that it'll pass, just like you have those moments of fear that it'll pass and they come back again. Joy comes back around. Peace comes back around. But you have to be willing to open yourself up to be present in the moment so that you can be in relationship with what's happening in your world. So that's it. That's my whole sermon. That's it. Yes. The only thing I have

to add is that when you do what she just shared, when you start documenting your feelings and then you do the next step, sharing them with the people who you feel safe to share them with,

You're going to be amazed that people are like, I had no idea you were angry. I had no idea you were sad. I had no idea you were lonely. And we think we've been sharing. I know I did because I would be like, I've been sharing and I wasn't. I was just staring across the room, angry and pissed and nobody knew. But I was like, you couldn't tell. You couldn't tell. I was done with you. And.

When I started saying, actually, I'm disappointed, I'm upset, I'm sad, I feel alone. They were like, oh, let's hang out. Let's spend time. We do need that validation. I think a lot of times in wellness, there's like this perception of you're supposed to just be validating yourself. And it's all about, yes, we are healing ourselves and also so that we can be in community, so that we can experience love and support and care in our relationships.

And the validation comes when we show up with the people that we trust and we say, this is what I need. And they say, I'm here. That is why we're doing this work.

There are some women who make me proud to be woman, who make me proud to be on this journey. And you are one of them. I'm so, so grateful for you. Thank you, Yasmin, for everything that you're doing, the many ways that you're showing up for us all. We owe you so much. And we're going to pay you back by living and healing and growing because it seems like that would be the greatest gift that we can give you. So thank you. Thank you for your time with me today. Thank you for having me. We did it.

We did it, Joe. Well, I guess I'll see you next year. You will see me next year because I'm front row VIP. I cannot wait. I can't wait. I went virtually last year and then I DM'd Gia

And I said, yeah, and I saw she was there this year and I said, I didn't go this year because I was afraid to go by myself. And she was like, do not miss another. I was like, you know, I'm just going to buy my ticket by myself. But I'm excited to see it. Thank you so much for having me.

I hope you have a beautiful week. I can't tell you how many people come to the event alone and leave. Like, I just made me some good girlfriends. Like, it happens all the time. So thank you for trusting us. You're going to have a good time and I can't wait to see you. Yes. Have a wonderful week. You too. Take care. All right. Bye. Bye.

And there you have it, Saints. I tried to tell you. I think we can all say that we've just evolved. I feel lighter. I feel better. Yasmin, we honor and appreciate you for freely sharing your wisdom. Thanks so much for co-hosting with me and leaving us with practical tools on how to live well. Because of you, we'll be sure to enjoy the sweet things in life.

I'm not going to stop. I think I love it, love it. Never underestimate.

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Hello. From Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten.

Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the team table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.