Presence of Access w/ Shannon Brown
37:04 Share

Most deals are barely worth mentioning. But then there's AT&T's best deal on the new Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 6. You can get it on them when you trade in your eligible smartphone. Any year, any condition. It's a deal so good, you'll be shouting from the rooftops. So grab a ladder and learn how to get that new phone on AT&T.

I'm a good lawyer, and I want to win. I'm a savage. I think I killed JT.

She needs someone who's going to fight for her. If we don't follow the right plan, we lose. The hit series Reasonable Doubt, now streaming on Hulu. She was defending herself against a monster. Starring Emma Yatze-Coronalde. I'm the best lawyer you have ever worked with. And Morris Chestnut. I'm not gonna stop.

I think I love it, love it. Never underestimate the power of attorney. Always bet on tax. Reasonable Doubt. New episodes Thursdays. Streaming only on Hulu. Hello. From Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten.

Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the team table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Can't bless who you pretend to be or who you compare yourself to he can only bless you and the lane that was created for you You don't need no edge entity you need boundaries

whether it's in abundance or it's limited, no matter what it is, it has a way of...

Really shaping our perspective when we think that we don't have access we can be disappointed bitter even feeling dejected and rejected from life but when we have an Abundance of access it can make us feel powerful and also sometimes a little bit confused think about it our access to creativity either makes us feel like we can produce anything or

or nothing at all. Our access to resources either relieves us from stress or adds to it.

The presence of access is pivotal. We've been talking about it all week long at Woman Evolve, but this conversation is going to be the capstone because I believe whether you're looking to access hope after disappointment or resources for a career change, that our co-host today, Shannon Brown, has exactly what you are looking for. She is no stranger to how life-changing access can be. So let's learn from her. Hi, Shannon. Hi, Shannon.

Hi, Pastor Sarah. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you. You look gorgeous. I'm excited. I've heard so much about you. Thank you. Hopefully most good. It's been mostly good. Someone's a little ratchet, but we got to keep that in there. It keeps things spicy. We own it. We own it. That's fine. Balance. Balance. Someone should write a book. I like it. I read it.

Shannon, I'm so excited to talk to you today because I hear that you are a woman on a mission to make sure that women of color, people of color have access. So I want to know when you hear the words denied access, what comes to mind immediately?

Let's find the real resource. Um, when I hear denied access, no, it's not, it's not that it's in my, not in my vocabulary, but the way I see it is that maybe I'm choosing the wrong Avenue. There's another way, because if I'm making a decision, if there's something that I need access to and access is denied, then I need to check my resource. Um,

God brings you all types of things in all types of ways that you don't see coming. And so the package probably isn't what you're expecting. Choose a new door, a new avenue, a new friend, a new something, and you'll get where you want to go. So access denied is just a detour.

Okay. So I love this because what I hear you saying is that it's a detour, but I feel like most people get stuck because when they are denied access, they think that they are denied promotion. They're denied progress. They're denied the opportunity to grow because they experienced a restriction in one area. But you're saying that just because you are restricted in

one area, it doesn't mean that your entire mission, your entire journey, plan, vision, dream has to be denied altogether. How do you come to a place where you feel that even though I am denied here, there's still access somewhere present in this time of my life, in this season? How do we move from being so disappointed about the denial that we miss that there's still access available? Yeah.

So I won't speak for myself because that's the only thing I really have authority over. But I know that the moment that I came in full agreement with what the vision was that God had for me, we were in full agreement. I also understood that that like that small writing at the bottom, the fine print, not

how I want it to, but I can expect that I'll get there. And so if access denied in this one space, that means, okay, it might not even be denied forever. It might be come back to this later, but I'm going to try every single route before I get there because I'm in agreement with what's been said about me, what the vision is. I feel sure about that, but I'm not tied to how it has to look because that gives me opportunity for

for all of these other possibilities. If we get so tied to the process and how it's supposed to look and how it's supposed to be and all these steps that we're supposed to take, we're going to miss a lot. Okay, so you got to rewind a little bit. You got to take me back into your own experience since you have offered yourself as a witness, a living witness. I want to know, was there one particular instance in which you realized that

This denial is not going to be the end that I still have access and it could be access to physical resources or access to joy, access to peace again. And I want to talk about that because I feel like a lot of times when we speak about access, especially when it comes to maybe entrepreneurship or even funding, that we're really talking about access.

access to resources. But the truth is, this is my personal belief. In order to access the physical resource, you have to first access the inner resource, the inner resiliency, the inner hope, the inner faith. Because if you cannot access that, you will allow some bank's denial to be the end of your journey. But when you say at the end of the day, God started this, so God's going to finish it. Anybody can say, no, I'm still looking for the yes, because I realized that God

is going to make a way out of no way. So tell me, I want to know your experience, your moment. Let's go. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm going to use quotes, but I got married back in the beginning of 2020. Literally, we'll shut down the Monday after I got married. But

Throughout that process, we ended up not having the best relationship at all. And it brought me to a place of a low, of not really being comfortable with the things I was seeing coming out of myself in reaction to things, how I was handling my emotions, my anger, my

frustrations, it really made me a stranger to myself. And so when I was becoming a stranger to myself, I began to not think that certain good things or possibilities were afforded to me. I didn't have permission to certain things because I was having all of these negative thoughts about myself, all of these negative thoughts about the experience that I had allowed myself to get into.

What really was like the worst moment of my life, the biggest blessing of my life, because what ended up happening is we were starting the divorce process and we're going and we got our lawyers, we're paying our money and we're starting to show up to virtual court because all of this is during the pandemic. They ended up telling me that my marriage wasn't legal.

And so I felt a lot of things about that. I felt so out of sorts. So I'm going through all of these changes to try to make these things happen. Then I find out that all of the work that I'm doing for this thing that I felt like was giving me an identity, I'm still good because I'm still working for this. I'm still worth being married to because I'm doing all of these things to make this marriage work. But then you tell me that the marriage isn't valid. And that was a gift because that began the

the process of me realizing that there wasn't any act.

I could do to be worthwhile of the things that God had promised me. And that even though they weren't going to happen in this particular marriage, it doesn't mean that there might not be another avenue that they can happen in. Even though the things that I kept trying to fight for in this marriage didn't happen, doesn't mean that I couldn't find the same level of love, of comfort, of validation through my relationship with God. And once I understood that I could

pivot how I saw myself, it began to open up a wealth of things to me that I never thought I would be doing, working in places that I never thought I'd be working in, talking to people I never thought I'd be talking to. But it's all because I got stripped down and had to

kind of look at what, what was I saying about me? If these relationships don't work, but what God says is that I'm still worth it. Even if these don't work, even if I made a mistake, even if I had a non-divorce or a non-marriage, um, I'm still worthwhile. And so that began a journey. And so, and now if I hear something, say no marriage wasn't legal, that's really big to hear when you've been fighting for so long for something.

But if someone were to say to me, now you can't do this or this isn't your route, it kind of makes me laugh because I've been here before. That means that there's just another way that I'm going to have to do this. There's another way that this is going to show up for me because I trust God and trusting God allows me to trust myself. Okay, so if I could backslide from Mind Your Business Ministries for a minute, like...

I'm going to just backslide. I know my way back, so I'm not even worried about it. I'm going to backslide for a minute. Like, so, like, because I watch a lot of Lifetime. It's giving Lifetime. It's giving, like, how, like, what do you, it's none of my business. And let me tell you, one thing you can tell me is this, I'm not ready for that. That's none of your business. But, like, how, for what, could, how come, what happened, what happened?

All of that. Honestly, I've been very open. Part of kind of working this out with God has been sharing this story in a more open forum because it does not make me look good. No. I don't even think it makes me look smart.

Wait a minute. Don't talk about my friend like that. Wait a minute. If you're going to tell the story, you can tell the story, but we're not going to carry you in the middle of it. First of all, wait a minute. No, ma'am. You are. OK, beautiful, brilliant. No, ma'am. All of that heart was open. You were trusting. And this is what happened. You were living wholeheartedly. But no, we rebuke that now. All right. Right, right, right. But what I.

we got, we got married. We had a ceremony actually had two. So we really, we really tried this thing, but because of COVID, we had to change our plans. So we, um, we had like a literal, a literal backyard thing where it was just our parents there. We, um,

had a friend kind of preside over, we signed all the paperwork and in the state that I got married in, what you have to do is you sign two documents and you return two documents to the magistrate. You get one back with a stamp on it saying, yeah, y'all are legit. This is legal. I got one paper back, but it seems as if, well, what we discovered is that that other one just never made it. Like it just never got on file. There's zero record of it.

both our teams tried to call and see, why don't you have this on the file? I have a stamp, but we don't have the other one. It just disappeared. God was just that serious about that. Yeah. It's giving God blocked it. It's giving God blocked it. And it quite literally saved my life. I'm very, I'm very glad that, that, that happened. But I really, I,

If it wasn't me, the way that it unfolded and the way all that we did to try to make it happen, I wouldn't believe it. I would come outside. Are you sure you turned the paperwork in? But it really, I don't know if it got lost, if the Holy Spirit literally took it.

out of the mailbox, but it just never made it to the court. And so when we go and we're trying to go through the process of divorce, they were like, you can't really get divorced, but y'all can break up because y'all aren't married. And it was, it was crazy. Even with having the, the one of the signed copies of the marriage license, because there was a lot that literally changed months before we got married. Um,

If that law hadn't changed and we wouldn't legally marry, we would have gone through the whole divorce process, which probably would have been, I mean, it was already rough, but it would have been even more detrimental. But I really think that that was an unbelievable amount of grace that I really got. I feel like God gave me a real life do over. Like this one doesn't even count. It's not even on the records, but it was tough and it's tough to, it was tough to process because in the beginning you're like,

You want the respect of having been the wife, given that you were, you honored your vows. You were very serious about that. You were betrayed and all of these different things. And you weren't, and you find out that you weren't even the wife, but then I realized, so what? I still kept my vows. I was still committed to my vows. I made those promises to God. I made those promises to him and I didn't go back on that. I,

I honor that even if the court didn't. Yeah. And I mean, you did because that's a heart posture. I mean, in the biblical days when they were talking about marriage, it wasn't a sheet of paper that was going to a court and then being filed and returned to you. It was the heart posture of the people involved. And I think that when you tell that story that you honor your heart in it, because I think that you did exactly what all of us

think are the right steps to take. And there was just this loophole that you happened to miss. But okay, thank you for letting me mind your business. I appreciate that. Thank you.

It's one thing to go through this and decide that, all right, you know, that was a denial, but I still have access even after that. That's an awakening, a new lease on life. But you aren't just looking out for yourself. You're carrying others with you. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you are using your life, your purpose, your gifts and talents to present access to other people?

Absolutely. So I'm in a really interesting position where what I do for my career also really directly aligns with my passion and mission of life. And so I work with organizations to find communities of color. And hopefully we like to lean into women of color specifically.

to find them access to things like career changes, coaching, making sure that they're in the best possible position to climb the ladder if that's what they want or figure out what they want to do with their career in general. One of the things that was really interesting for me was my pathway into finding a space in corporate world. I'm a creative. I grew up learning about

ballet, dance, and all of these different things. But one thing that remained consistent was a desire to share stories. And so I didn't know how I was going to be able to do that in a corporate space. I didn't know how I was going to make that matter. But every time that I present, I always care about a community or every time that I...

present why we should work with an organization to share their story. And so that's a lot of the work I do is really just finding the right people to come together to build resources, be something as simple as creating workshops so that people in Detroit have access to the careers that they want to, making sure that we are talking with the folks in Africa about why people are going off

and going to school in the U.S. and staying there for their careers. We want them to come back. So I have this ability to have a global reach with folks that I never would have thought

if possible. And then in my personal life, I'm able to, again, share stories. I share the story of what happened within my non-marriage all the time to help men who are going through bad breakups or maybe even full-fledged divorces. Men too, they're sprinkled in a little bit like the delegation. They creep on in there. And so bringing those things together has been just such a gift and not something that I would have thought I would have been doing. It's what I spend my

All of my waking hours doing. It was great. This summer, I took an extended break from working and in my time away, I was able to make even more space for my mental wellness. Whether you're a working mom, stay at home mom or a stay at home and work mom, sis, your mental wellness is valuable. And that is why this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.

You know you've already been thinking about it. Now is the time to take that step to make some time for you. Having a therapist has helped me pace myself, remind me of my growth, and also holds me accountable to my mental wellness goals.

BetterHelp is just as convenient and affordable as it is necessary. Problems can come from every part of our life and it's vital that we have the appropriate tools we need to tackle them and BetterHelp can assist you with that. For me, instead of solely focusing on the problem in front of me, therapy has shifted my perspective into having healthy solutions and improved my communication skills.

When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com slash evolve today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash evolve.

So you said that the career changes they want to make or the careers they want to have, which I feel like is something that we should really unpack because I believe that what you're saying is that there are so many women who are employed or are in situations in which they are in a career that isn't necessarily what they want. And so part of what you're doing with the work that you do is helping them to get into a lane that they want. That to me is...

I think that it would extend our lives if we were in fields that were fulfilling. It would increase our passion. It would take the glass ceiling and shatter it if we felt like we had the momentum to reach for something that we really wanted to go for. So I'm wondering, what is it that keeps women of color from being in the career that they want? What barriers are they having to overcome?

And how can we begin to awaken more people to the resources that are available to them? I really believe it starts with mindset. We start to believe that

Some of the stereotypes and the limitations, most limitations that are around us are something that we accepted. We place it upon ourselves. Yes, there are folks who think that if there is a black woman or a woman of color in a corporate space, then she's either going to be mean or hard to deal with or all of the things that she

That are just huge stereotypes. People are people. They're going to find things in every culture that you come across. But I think that there are some parts of us that believe that if we are even in the room, we don't have to worry about being at the top or we don't have to worry about what it looks like or we feel like we're the most educated group. Yeah.

out there. We're the most educated group. We're starting the most businesses there. We have so much capacity, but we hold ourselves back because we feel maybe we can't be, and I'm sure you might relate to this, maybe we can't be mom and entrepreneur. Maybe we can't be wife and this, or maybe we can't be wife and mentor and do all these things at the same time.

But you can with the proper resources. You can with access to great teams. You can with access to resources on folks who've done this before or you don't have to reinvent the wheel. And so I think the limitation that we put upon ourselves put us in the mindset of scarcity, but there's no

available to us if we just simply stand up and ask the questions. This is something I need help with because that is definitely not a woman thing to do. And I really don't think it's a woman thing to do to say, hey, I need help here. Hey, this is too much. Hey, I need a break. Can you pick this up for me while I go take care of my mental health and then come back?

We will burn ourselves at both ends instead of looking at what's available to us. And so those limitations, those mindsets, we have to get past because they've been given to us by someone else. Now we're starting to believe them.

So when we begin to attack the mindset that keeps us from having just the mentality that there is access available to us, then what do we do? What does that woman who's like, you know what? I'm open. I just literally don't know where to start. Maybe she's in a dead end job in her mind or she's in the same career path that every other woman in her family and community are in. But she has a goal. She has a dream. What are some of those next steps that a woman should take when she's really ready to act

I would find two people. So when I was kind of coming out of the start time, I sought out a mentor and a sponsor. Hmm.

And the difference in those two is a mentor is someone who you can maybe strive to be like, they're going to give you advice. Sometimes it's not that their critique is not always going to feel good, but they're doing this to help you grow. Um,

A sponsor is someone who will get you in the rooms. So you have these two folks who are working with you. They're part of your team. This person is at a place that you want to be. I knew that I wanted to work with folks globally. So I found someone. I looked at LinkedIn. I looked within my own organization that I was at before. I looked for someone who looked like me. I looked for someone who didn't because I really wanted the opportunity to step into something. And I was very specific about my ask.

These are the goals that I have for myself. These are the things that I'm interested in doing. Are there books I can read, courses I can take, people I can talk to? And the difference between a sponsor is a sponsor is not only going to give you all of that, but then they're going to help usher you along. And there are not a lot of sponsors that will fill you enough who are willing to kind of take you under their wing. But there are folks who are willing if you ask.

Okay, so I hate to interrupt all of this good conversation, but I wanted you to know that I want to talk to you too. I want to hear your story. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions. You can send me your application, your video to be a co-host to podcast.

Podcasts at Womanevolved.com. Let me know what it is you want to talk about, why it's important to you that you be on the podcast. Maybe you're like, girl, I am not going to be on anybody's podcast. I don't do talking to people. First of all, this is a sign. Overcome yourself. But if not, you can send me an advice question. Podcasts at Womanevolved.com. Okay, let's get back to the podcast.

Okay, so I love that you said a mentor and a sponsor. I've never heard it broken down that way, but it feels so valuable to make sure that you have both of those working at the same time. And I'm a big advocate for sometimes you're being mentored by someone from afar. It's not necessarily someone you have direct access to, but because you have access to their thoughts through their books or their messages or their podcasts, you're able to glean from them. I also hear though that this is,

going to require a lot of vulnerability to be willing to say like, yes, one,

I don't know, like we want to have to be willing to come off like a little bit like a groupie, a little bit like a fan, like someone who admires the work of the person on the other end. We have to be willing to believe that we're not bothering someone in order to approach them. And then we have to really identify the areas where we need the most support. Can you tell me the cost of access to

For our pride, our ego, our fear. Like, what is the price that we pay in order to open ourselves up for next? It's big. I'm not going to deny that you might not face more rejection than you thought you would. Or you might have to go through a couple of mentors until you find the right one. Or you might need different mentors for different phases of your career or life or whatever.

But you have to decide what's more important, my pride or the vision I have for my life, the experiences that I want to have for my life or for my children, for my family, for whoever might come after me. Because one day you'll be the mentor. One day you'll be the sponsor and you'll have the opportunity to pay it forward. So you have to be willing to kind of slow some of that down. And I'm not going to act like that's like my gift, but...

I do. I do. If there's something that I want more, I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask because if you don't, you absolutely won't get what you're looking for. How can you get what you need from a stranger that stranger doesn't know? If that person doesn't know, there could be people in your church. And it's so funny. I'm in a sorority. So a lot of times I'll start there. I'm looking for someone who does this. Try a network that already exists to you and then kind of spring out from there.

If it makes that transition a little bit easier to want to talk to somebody, but maybe they're a connection of a connection, but you have to put yourself out there because if you're not willing to take a risk on yourself to do that, I would think. Yeah, that's so good. Um,

I feel like that's going to help a lot of people. I think we have to come to a place where we're like, this may not be what I am good at, but it is what I am practicing in this moment. And I feel like if we allow ourselves to practice this opportunity to engage with others who are further along a journey than we are, that we will begin to become the people we think we can be in our soul, but aren't daring enough to actually act

out. I'm thinking about so many people whose motherhood I admire, whose entrepreneurship I admire, and how much better my life would be if I would just... I really admire the way you speak to your children. I really admire the way that you handle that business. What is it? How did you learn to do that? What are some tips that I can take?

And I think that it creates community. And in that community, we all become better. And you never know how much a person needs to see themselves as being valued and admired. Sometimes someone's doing something that comes naturally to them and they don't realize that what comes naturally to them is a blessing to someone else. Mm-hmm.

I have those same folks in church now. I want to, I want to grow in specific ways. I want to have better understanding of there. There are starting to be people who come to me to ask me questions and that makes me nervous because I'm not a, I'm not a pastor at all.

I go to church. I love Jesus. Like those are, that's like, those are my credentials. But when they ask me questions, I have to put them on pause. Like I'm absolutely going to circle around to you, but I would like to teach you to the right person or the right place. The more that that happens, the more I'm also getting access to those people as well so that we are really doing this together. We really are in community. We really are expanding our resources and becoming resources for each other. I feel like that's supposed to be.

Yeah, no one's meant to do this thing alone. You can't be an island and grow at the same time.

Starting my day with prayer and meditation has honestly changed my life. It allows me space to clearly hear from God and to set intentions for my day. I've even found myself using the Abide app in the middle of the day when it starts feeling like anything other than what I'd hoped for. Whether an unexpected issue arises at work, my kids start to stress me out, or I'm simply feeling a bit off, meditating has helped me recenter and mentally get my day back on track.

If meditation is new for you, or if you're already a meditation vet, Abide can help you with your meditation goals. It's the number one app for a limited time. Our listeners will get 25% off a premium subscription when you text Sarah to 22433.

Get started now with 25% off a premium subscription by texting Sarah to 22433. You'll get additional stories and meditations, premium music, soothing sounds, and so much more.

Take advantage of this amazing offer and try out the two minute sessions that you can choose from with topics ranging from overcoming anxiety to finding forgiveness. Support this show and get 25% by texting Sarah to 22433. Okay, so we have an advice question. Are you ready?

I'm ready. Okay, so it says,

I felt like a burden because she was a single mother working two jobs and in school. I wasn't the best in school, so I was always compared to my younger cousins. She used to tell me she wished she could give me to my father, but he doesn't want me.

There were days I was left alone and had to reach out to my aunts and grandmother to rescue me. I used to have conversations with her and write her letters about how I felt, but nothing ever changed. As I got older, those conversations turned into arguments. I never had a relationship with her, and now I'm 22 and don't speak to her.

Last year, she kicked me out mainly because she chose her boyfriend over me. I was homeless, sleeping in my car and hotel hopping. I had no idea what to do and who was on my side. As for my dad, when I was 10, he chose his girlfriend and her kids over me. I have no relationship or communication with him. I'm currently in therapy, but a part of me feels like I will never get over the fact I wasn't chosen and it shows in my friendships. I stay where I'm not wanted and try to work on relationships that don't deserve it.

I have my Eve moments and I know better, but don't do better. I want to do better. It says, since then, I've started my own dog sitting business, found an apartment and got my dream job. I'm doing great for myself, but this is the only thing I feel like is hindering my growth.

Man, that's so layered. I'm so sorry. Oh my goodness. I'm so proud of you. Whoever that is, she's started a business, got a job, not living in a car anymore, moving forward. Ooh, that's a lot. It is a lot. I think that I'll start it, but Shannon, I want to hear from you too. I think that

What you're experiencing as far as not being chosen is not something that is unique to only your experience. There are so many people who can relate to one parent, both parents, not choosing them. Sometimes people felt like they weren't chosen and they had both parents in the house because they chose other things over them as well. I say that to let you know that your pain is a familiar pain for so many of us.

And while it is comforting to know that it is a familiar pain, I think you should also know that there is familiar growth and purpose connected to it as well. What I have learned in my own moments as a PK and sometimes feeling like the church was chosen over us or felt like there were other things that were more important is that at the end of the day, and there's a scripture that I'm going to mess up if I try and tell you where it is, but it talks about when my mother and father forsake me, God will pick me up.

that there are moments in our lives where we have to say, if my dad doesn't choose me, if my mother doesn't choose me, if my friends don't choose me and my siblings don't choose me, I can still choose me. I can still choose to take care of my heart. I can still choose to trust that God is protecting me. I can still choose to believe that God's going to make all of this work together for my good. And so I say to you,

This is a season in which you're going to have to learn to choose yourself and to mother yourself and nurture yourself and love on yourself in a way that your family could not. Because the real truth is that if your family really could, if it was in them to do, they would not have left you in this situation, which means that they are incapable of delivering in the way that you need them to. But you have knowledge that...

that you deserve better. That hunger that is inside of you that wants them to fix it, that wants them to heal it is the inside of you knowing that I deserve better than this. I should be loved better than this. Don't allow that hunger to turn into malnourishment. You can be fed and nurtured.

by a relationship with God, by self-love and self-care, and by coming to a place where you need not for other people to validate you because you know that you've already been validated by God and your breath is evidence that you have been validated by God. So I commend you for surviving. I commend you for still fighting for more and believing that you are worthy of it. You're right. You deserve more and you are worthy and valuable. Shannon, what do you think?

I mean, all of that. But I'll also add that in choosing yourself and getting that validation from God, you'll have the ability to create the family that you deserve. It might not be the family that you thought that you would have with your mother or your father. Humanize them, allow them to be who they are while you decide who you are.

are going to accept and how that's going to look. I don't know if they'll ever become the parents that you want them to, but you can become who you want to be and you can do and have the things that you want to have. You can have the family that you want to have, even if that doesn't include your mother and father in the way that you wish they had shown up for you or wish they could pray for them, but focus on you.

God can mend a lot of things, but I don't think you should concentrate on anything other than the mending of your own broken heart. But I'm rooting for you. Yeah. I'm reminded of you.

And how you so eloquently shared with us how the denial of that marriage, the denial of where you thought your heart would be intertwined was actually a blessing. And I am praying that same grace for our sister, that where she has experienced denial and rejection from her family and for anyone who's listening.

that those denials will actually be doors, doors that lead you to the access of more peace, more hope, more confidence, more love. And so you've got to do the incredibly challenging work of not getting stuck in the hallway of denial, but dare to move forward and believe that there's access on the other side. Thank you, Shannon. This was great.

Thank you. It was. Thank you for having me. And thank you for all that you do. You put up a your images and about perfection and about possibility, which I think is even more, more powerful. And so I just have so much gratitude for that. Thank you. That means so much to me. I'm going to carry that with me today. Definitely do. Take care of yourself. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Guess what you have access to? Being my next co-host. So let's make it happen, Captain. Send me an email to podcast at womanevolved.com and include a one to two minute video about why you'd be the perfect co-host. We're always on the lookout for advice questions too. Send them to the same email, Addie, and we'll get right into your business anonymously. Because, you know, we mind our business, child. ♪

I'm not going to stop.

I think I love it, love it. Never underestimate the power of attorney. Always bet on tax. Reasonable Doubt. New episodes Thursdays. Streaming only on Hulu. Most deals are barely worth mentioning, but then there's AT&T's best deal on the new Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 6 featuring FlexCam with Galaxy AI. You can get in on them when you trade in your eligible smartphone any year, any condition. It's a deal so good, you'll be shouting from

the real talk so grab a ladder and learn how to get that new phone on at&t at&t connecting changes everything requires trading of galaxy s note and z series smartphone limited time offer 256 gigabytes for zero dollars additional fees terms and restrictions apply see att.com samsung or visit an at&t store for details hello from wonder media network i'm jenny caplan host of womanica a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten who

Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the team table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.