Discovering Their Roots | A Philadelphia Story (302) with special guest Ryan Michelle Bathe
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- On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season three, episode two of Philadelphia Story. Rebecca searches for a new home while navigating the kids' looming college decisions. Kate begins her IVF journey, which sparks some family tension. Randall becomes more involved in his father's old community, and the entire Pearson family comes together for Kevin's big movie premiere.

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Mandy, Chris, how the hell are you guys doing today? Well, how are you? We're doing very well. Today on the podcast, we're joined by a co-host of the Smash Hit podcast, we don't always agree, Ryan Michelle Bathay and Sterling K. Brown. Yes! Yay!

Hi, guys. Thank you for having me. Welcome to our set, Bird. It's very sweet and cute. It's so awesome. Real true story. The wife threw me a little birthday party last night. It was a get-together. It was a get-together. A casual hang. A casual hang. Very much. That happened miraculously. And while I was watching episodes and whatnot, she was straightening up the kitchen, doing all these wonderful things to keep our house in pristine order. For the record, I don't want to feign it.

I do love you. I love you a great deal. I think you are a quality human being. Nobody was questioning that. I'm just making sure. I don't put it on the record. For posterity, I put it on record. You're the homie. I'm glad you had a nice time last night. She's not just here because she's my wife. She is a part of our This Is Us family. She plays Yvette.

counselor to the Pearsons in the past. We meet her for the first time in episode 104 entitled The Poop. And they have Rebecca and Yvette have a wonderful sort of introduction to one another. There's a confrontation. Yes. We can call it like it is. I'm curious for you, what do you recall about your first time being on set and playing those scenes with Mandy?

I recall a lot. I'm not going to say the first thing that comes to mind, what I remember. You can say it. This is a safe space. Okay, okay. Please, do what you got to do. I remember there was that guy with the MAGA hat and the glasses. Oh, yeah. He was so...

We won't say his name, but I know exactly who you're talking about. And he was really tall and he was always carrying a lot of things. And it's like, you know, I get why people have glasses because obviously it's outside and we're at the pool. But it was just, there was something very intimidating. And I was like, is he doing this on purpose? Like it felt, it felt purposefully intimidating. And I remember that a lot because he would like walk past me and I would always try to like avoid him. It was pre-election. It was. We all decide what we're going to wear to work.

And that was a choice. That was a choice. That was a choice. That I wouldn't have made. You could have made another choice. But anyway, I remember that. You remember that. I remember being very nervous. Why were you nervous? You're a seasoned professional. Talk to me about that. What's my favorite movie being Julia? Just nerves are the, nerves are the something that we pay, the nerves are the tie that we pay our audience to. Because she's like really nervous and it's,

Remember that movie, Being Julia? Yes. With what's her name? With Old Girl. With Old Girl. Yeah. Oh, you know Old Girl. Yeah. You know who Old Girl is. I can't think of her name right now. Anyway, it'll come to me. But the point is, is that that's why I think why. You know, I'm always nervous. I hear you. Especially when you go on somebody else's set, somebody else's playground. You don't know how things go. You don't know how people really are. You don't know what to expect. And it was such a big day because it was the pool.

- It was a pool. I mean, it was an, you know what I mean? - So many extras. - So many. - Like all the logistics of being on a location we had, yeah, it was outside, it was hot. - Yeah. - And then it was older. It was like an older pool 'cause it had to look older. So things weren't really like, you know, you're like, is this up to code? - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know what I find interesting about like what I recall from that episode and conversations that we've had, like we've been at parties with

really lovely people who have adopted a white family that's adopted like black children, right? And on a couple of occasions, I want to say, but I remember being at a friend's party and us looking at the daughter's hair and sort of like, do you, you don't remember this? And like, you were, and you were like, I wonder if I should say something about her hair to her parents.

Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't know specifically, but I feel like that's happened a couple of times with us. Sure, sure, sure. Where we feel like we, you know, where I question certain things and should I say something? What is your place? Well, I'm not Yvette. No, but still, I mean, like, does Yvette just chime in unsolicited? A little bit. Very much so. But I think...

I feel like in Yvette's situation, and you know it's funny because I'm very much down this rabbit hole of adoptees and how to do an adoptee-centered adoption. Just the...

how the rhetoric is shifting around adoption based on people who have actually been adopted, you know? And like, you really get a sense of like how we talk about adoption actually from the point of view of more so the parents, even though the parents who gave up a child for adoption or the people who adopted the parents, but it's not always from the child's perspective. So it's been really interesting to me. And I think that Yvette knew you, right?

Or knew Randall. Randall had come over and introduced himself. A couple. The idea is that he had built this relationship with the children and these people. That was why he chose to go to that particular pool. Because he knew his friends would be there. Right. And so I feel like she felt...

In my mind, Yvette felt empowered to speak on behalf of the child and not just this random family that she didn't know. She did have a relationship. Yeah, there was a relationship there. I totally agree. Even if it wasn't with Rebecca.

The mother. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Okay. Okay. Well, let's, we'll talk about how you factor into this particular episode as we, as we weave through it, because it's, there's going to be a tie in that we'll come back to. But how does this episode start gang? Who wants to take the top of it? I mean, it opens on the most depressed Rebecca we've ever seen.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. She is reeling from the death of her husband. She's making coffee. She's in an apartment now. Yeah, sort of a nondescript apartment. Yeah, like transitional housing, nothing really personal about it. Yeah. And the kids are kind of...

floating around trying to figure out what's going on. There's two things that happen almost immediately. There is an envelope from Howard University, right? And she's like, rejection letters don't usually come in three pound packages, which is, can I tell you, I

This is non-applicable for the person who just decided to just start a career. But for everybody else who like did that whole college thing, what was it like when you received your acceptance letter? Yeah. I mean, it was, were you excited? Yes. Yes. Could have fooled me. Yes.

So excited. Yeah. So excited. You got the big envelope. Yes, yes. Did you get in everywhere you applied? I did. Okay. I did. Good for you. SKB? I did. Shocking. But it was such a thing because I actually got my acceptance letter on April 5th. Oh!

I got it on my birthday. And I remember we were talking in school. They're like, if you get rejected, they give you this like a small envelope. But if you get accepted, it's like a big thing. And I remember seeing like the big, I think it was Manila and it had Stanford on it and had like, maybe it had congratulations like going crossways on. And I was just like, spoiler. It was a great day. It was a great day. Ryan got in everywhere. And listen, tell them, tell Rye, tell everybody, our audience where you applied to school.

Come on, Bert. Come on. You know him. Come on, come on, come on. Okay, fine. I applied to Georgetown. Yep. Wash U. Mm-hmm. Princeton. Mm-hmm. Stanford. Mm-hmm. Spelman. Mm-hmm.

Columbia and Harvard. Save the best for last, girl. That's right. You see how she held that one? Just to make sure you had options. You see how she held that? Let me just let y'all know Harvard. And was mad for the first two years. So what made you choose Stanford? That is a really good question. What?

So, you know, it was a very hard decision because I didn't have a lot of help in terms of navigating the process. I had help in terms of getting in. I knew what to do to get in and then everything fell off a cliff because I don't know that it occurred to me what to do

after you get in i just i mean again you're 17. yeah who would yeah you just are like i gotta get in i gotta get in i got i mean you're like yeah and then you'll figure it out from there and then yeah it felt like basic application pro like i went to a very nice high school yeah that had all the resources sure it was like here's how you apply but i don't think anybody knew anything about theater and i'm like i didn't even know about nyu i didn't even i was like it wasn't even an option i didn't realize like the difference between

a college with a theater major and a theater program. That's interesting. For some reason, it just wasn't in my purview at all. Because they didn't speak about it? I don't know. My school did. But you went to... I was very similar to Chris's school. I went to a public school.

So maybe that's why. No shade. I love my public school. But what was the difference in terms of Stanford versus Harvard? I think that... And Spelman, which I think is going to tie into this episode quite clearly. Oh, yeah. That's actually... So I grew up on the East Coast. Yeah. And I think I felt...

I understood what my trajectory would be had I gone to a Harvard. I mean, I knew Princeton was out for other reasons, but it basically came down between Spelman, Harvard, and Stanford. Okay. And only reason because when I went to visit Princeton, it was raining and it was depressing and all the buildings are gothic and I literally was like, I'm going to get possessed. This is a vampire movie. No, it was like, but not in a good way. You know, like gargoyles, but also not in a good way. And I was like...

they were like do you know what an eating club is I was like well I'd be on the menu I don't know no thank you no thank you would you like to join our eating club and they're like I get drunk every week it was just anyway so it was those three and I felt very clear like if

I go to Harvard, I kind of had this very clear vision of who and what I would be, but I couldn't pin down who that person would be or who I would be if I went to Stanford. And because it was such an unknown, I was like, I wanted to see. Did you visit all of these places? I did. You did? I did. So wait, in terms of this episode too, because why Stanford then over Spelman?

So, and had to do it all over again. Maybe I'd make a different choice. But when I visited Spelman, I was also in an organization. But we didn't meet. When we visited school, they have something called Black Recruitment and Orientation Committee. Brock Weekend. Where they bring black students to school. But neither one of us went to Brock Weekend. I was doing All My Son's.

senior year of high school and so couldn't make it to that weekend. And you had to miss it for something else. I was busy. I had things to do. But I was in Jack and Jill. That's probably what I was doing. You were busy letting Harvard know you would not be attending. Yes, I was probably counseling with them. Like, so listen, next time this happens. What else do you have to offer other than acceptance? Spellman. Spellman. So when I went to visit, because having been in Jack and Jill

and knowing all of the kids on the East Coast. - Jack and Jill is a African American mothers organization where their children get together. It's a mother's group, but it's for their children and sort of for their social development to sort of augment the Black experience, especially if they tend to occupy predominantly white spaces to make sure they have a connection to culture that is also present in their lives. - Got it. - Got it.

And so, and it's, when you get, the older you get, the more it becomes like about your region, right? And so you can imagine back in the day, living on the East Coast, you can hop in a car and get to Boston. You can hop in a car and get to DC. You can, you know what I mean? You're on a train. So we were just all over. We were in Philly. We were in DC. We were in, we loved to go to Brooklyn. We thought it was so, because we lived in Stanford, Connecticut. You know what I mean? So we're like, we want to Brooklyn. We want to Brooklyn. You know, it was like 40 acres and a mule. It was like,

So we just thought we were so cool. And I thought I was super cool. And like Jersey and like you go to the Jersey parties because they play the house music. And then like in D.C., they played the go-go. So you just felt so like a sophisticated and worldly. That was the extent of sophisticated and worldly for me was go-go music. But when I went to Spelman, having had that experience, I saw so many people that I knew.

And it felt good, but it also, again, felt very familiar. You wanted something different. I did. You wanted something sort of uncharted. I did. For college, that sounds understandable. I got you. I wanted to go somewhere without expectations of who I had been informing who I could be. And something sunny. And sunny.

And that helped. I didn't. Sunny's not bad. Bad health. I'm telling you, one of my main things from St. Louis is I wanted either black people or sunshine. So I applied to two schools in D.C. I applied to Howard and Georgetown. And I applied to USC, Claremont McKenna, and Stanford University. I was like, I'm going either way. I'm going to get these black people or I'm going to get some sunshine. And you got sunshine and black people. Yeah, yeah.

Quick question for you, because I never, I know, like, you've been doing this for such a long time. Was there ever any thought in your mind as to, like, pursuing formal education concurrently with career? Or are you like, no, this is what I do? I guess I think...

I thought about it more after the fact. Like once my friends started graduating, it kind of dawned on me like, oh, I guess like that experience has passed me by. And did I really miss out on something? Which I do often think like my trajectory was just something inherently different. Yes, absolutely. And a different education. And a different education. Yeah. But it sounds fun. Hearing you guys speak about it, I'm like, oh, wow. I think you did just fine.

I think four years of being able to just figure out who you are, make mistakes without the world watching, without having that sort of adult responsibilities. That to me sounds really alluring. Did you feel...

Older than what you were? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. There was no way around that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're thrust in an adult world with all of those responsibilities. Like, I was always still allowed to be a kid, too. Sure. I could go to the mall. I could go to the Beverly Center and go to CPK with my friends and, like, see a movie or something. But it was still, yeah, I was then, you know, you put on the work hat. I got you. Something different. But never learned to read, right? But I never learned to read. Right? Right.

It's overrated. She has to do scripts like voice memos. People read them too. This is how rumors get started. There are people who literally have to fight rumors that they can't read. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

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- Before we get in trouble with our producing team, let's see if I can turn this into this thing. Because so he gets accepted to Howard. We know that he visited Howard and that he had a great experience. And I think for a character like Randall who this felt unfamiliar to him, but familiar.

right it was not a part of his life but he very much wanted it to be a part of his life so my man had a big smile on his face when he got that acceptance and this whole episode is about as or for this storyline is about the future of these kids yes their trajectories yes who's going where and how and why and yeah and all these things and and expectations and of course kevin kind of gets

Left out. Left out. And it's another example of him just being here. I guess I'll just be here. Yeah. Until we get to the end of this storyline and we realize that people are changing their trajectories. They are indeed. So Randall gets his acceptance letter. Then he's hugging his mom. Mom is in tears and she's crying. Right? And Randall kind of clocks it. She's having an interesting emotional response to this. Like, are you happy? Yeah.

And she's like, of course I am, darling. But happy tears. Kate comes in. She's like, you two get a room because everybody thinks that me and mama love each other inappropriately. And it's not true. I just want to be clear. Obviously. We just love each other. Period. That was always a funny thing for me. I'm like, why do they love each other? But there is a bit of like a hard boundary that's being kept. That's like an odd support. Like there's maybe a little bit of too much of an emotional barrier.

scaffold put on Randall. Yeah. Possibly. Randall, we're getting ready to go meet with the realtor. Like, this is kind of the beginning of Randall's, assuming what we find later in this episode, that Randall sees himself as the

as the support system for the entire family. And if he doesn't do it, everything will fall apart. There's some codependence right there. No, it's true. It's true. That's a good point, Chris. Because then, Kate, and I clocked it immediately, and I was wondering how you guys felt about it. We see Kate come in, get a room, whatever, go straight to the Pop-Tarts.

pops a Pop-Tart in. And hats off to hair and makeup because you can see that they've started to put a little bit of weight on her. I noticed that. And you see Randall clock it. And you see him waiting for mom to clock it. And she doesn't. And she doesn't. She's like, we're out of these, by the way. Hashtag

Pop-Tarts, brown sugar and cinnamon used to be my Mickey, Vicky jam. Strawberry Frosted. That was your joint? Strawberry Frosted. And let me say this. I don't know if we'll ever have them as a sponsor, and you guys can always edit this. It's about the worst thing you can put in your body on the planet. I think about this all the time. I'm like, our parents, well, my parents let me have a Pop-Tart or a toaster strudel. Do you remember?

Do you remember those? - I definitely remember Toast and Wiggles. - That is with sugar on top. - 'Cause you got a packet to look at. - With my Reese's Peanut Butter Puffs cereal. - I was like-- - Oh, they had a cereal? - That's what we ate. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah, they did. - Paired it with my Carnation Instant Breakfast. - Oh my God. - You're gonna love it in an instant. Shout out Carnation. Listen. - I can't. - I remember when they just came in a six pack. It was three packets of two.

I would finish it in a day. Yeah, get out of here. Pop-Tarts? Then they would make an eight-pack. Oh, yeah. Sterling. I'd finish it in a day. Then they made a 12-pack. Somebody at Pop-Tarts was like, people are going through these six-packs too quick. Guys, they made it. Something's happening in St. Louis. They made a 12-pack. And you went through it in a day? We were burning calories, though. We were burning calories. But less the calories, there is zero nutritional content. That's what I think about. There's energy.

There's energy until there's not. That's right. That's when you sleep. And learn anything when that was how we were fueling our bodies. Yeah. I used to take a full-size ice chest to school with food in it. Full-size. Those igloos with the plop top, full-size. Five, six sandwiches. I'd start eating period one and just eat all day long. Not only Pop-Tarts, I would come home from exercising. I'd have a great day of exercise. Run six, seven miles. Yep.

and make a pitcher of Kool-Aid. - Yeah. - To hydrate yourself? - Let me top this shit off. - That's called electrolytes. - With a bucket of sugar and colored water. - Yeah. - And we'll just be happy as, okay. - Don't tell me Gatorade's not just

- Sugar water too. - Gatorade is Kool-Aid. - Yeah. - I'm convinced. - 100%. - It's a deep down body thirst. - Anyways, this episode brought to you by multi-billion dollar. - Nobody is gonna sign up. It's like these guys shit on everything.

- We're just trying to bring a little health to the world. - Anyways, childhood, the 19, kids, the points, the 1900s were fucking awesome. - Yeah, you missed it. It was cool though, wasn't it? - So in that storyline, they go to look at a house, right? That's the next thing that happens.

And we hear Jack's voice as Rebecca's like walking through the house. And she's sort of having a silent conversation with Jack. Not so silent. She's kind of like... She's speaking out loud. She's talking to herself. She's talking to herself. And again... We're talking to him out loud. Randall is sort of clocking it, right? And then they have this conversation about, well, we got to get a house and do something because we know Randall's going to be gone. Kate's going to go to Berkeley, perhaps. Kate's going to go to Berkeley. And you don't say anything about Kevin. Kevin's like...

And my ass is going to be sitting here doing not a damn thing. Right. Nobody says that, but he's sort of feeling bad and understandably so. And he's a little off.

He is a little off. He's more than a little off because he's inebriated. Yeah. Right? He's drunk. And we'll make reference to that. Still on the cast, right? No. No, the cast came off. The cast is off. The cast is off. We see Rebecca have a couple more conversations with herself looking at the garden and everything and then she mentioned something about growing something. When have you eaten pesto? Yeah, when have you eaten pesto, right? And this whole time, like, Randall's like...

what's going on with you, right? So eventually they have a conversation. And if I missed anything in this, you guys let me know. Kate basically admits that she never sent the tape into Berkeley. That's right. She never sent the tape to Berkeley. Yeah. Right? Because Kev's, I mean, Randall's like, oh, you're going to be gone too in a second. So she's like, I don't know. I never even sent it in. Yeah, she's staying home with Kevin. And it's like, oh. Like, brother is like, what's going, like, he feels sad. Like, you can see him feeling sad because it's like,

I'm about to go do this great thing. And it seems like everybody else is kind of just an arrested development, right? Like it stopped moving. So eventually there's a confrontation out in the garden where he says to you, like, where are you right now?

Right? Like, you said that you were going to take care of this family and everything was going to move forward, but you're not. Like, things are falling apart right now, and you said that they weren't going to fall apart. And I'm a little frustrated. Kate is eating, right? Kev is drunk all the time. And you're not even, like, paying attention to any of this stuff. You don't know. And she just sort of takes it on the chin, you know? Then they have a conversation a little bit later.

And he apologizes. He says, like, I'm sorry for that. And she's like, bruh, you're right. And let me tell you something. Some days, it's just a struggle to get out of this motherfucking bed. There was an admission in that scene that I had forgotten about, was that Jack had taken her. To look at a house a couple of months before the house burned down. Before the house burned down. Right. Which was just a little...

turn of the Dan Fogelman screw. Like, just a little insult to injury. They could have been in a whole new house anyways. Yeah. And she says, even when you see the flashback, she says, like,

I love our house. Like it may not be perfect or whatever, but it's ours. You know what I'm saying? And again, that's the turn of the screw just being like, and they lost it, you know? So then is there anything else in that conversation between the two, between Randall and Rebecca that I need to make note of? I don't think.

I don't think so. Okay. Because then quickly we see at the end of the episode, Randall's on the phone. He's calling up the admissions office or whatever at Howard University. He says, thank you so much for the acceptance. But unfortunately, I'm going to have to stay closer to home. So...

Thanks for that. Right. And what I wanted to sort of talk about, especially because you're here and Yvette is one of the first people that Randall calls and she shares her enthusiasm and talks about making fried okra, which is a cultural thing. But personally, I do not like fried okra. I find it's kind of slimy even when you fry it. Do you enjoy fried okra?

- No. - It's one of my mom's favorite things. - Really? - When we used to go to churches, churches made fried okra. - I remember. We were both from St. Louis, yeah. - And that was always one of the things that she wanted to get. You guys familiar with okra? - Oh, of course. - Churches in Florida. - You enjoy? - I've had fried okra. I don't mind it. - I've enjoyed it once. - Okay. - In deep middle of nowhere Texas, this woman made fried okra salad. - Ooh. - Okay.

Which was little pieces of fried okra. Yeah. Bacon pieces. Oh, now you. Raw white onion. Raw. Interesting. Diced up. Diced up. I know. I know. White vinegar. Okay. And honey. Okay.

Oh, so a little sweetness to go with. And again, I watched her make it and I was like, I don't know. And then sure enough, I ate half the bowl. Okay. Oh, okay. But yeah, hard to pull off. Okay. It is hard to pull off. It can get slimy. But he shares that with you and then-

does he come over to the house while you guys are does he come does randall come to the house no he doesn't everything is on the phone you just see it was going to be a party there was going to be there's going to be a party just talking about this is us uh and their and their ability at excellent phone calls yeah we do great we got the best phone calls on tv we do great great phone calls but i i'm curious like because one of the things and it'll tie into the present day storyline for randall as well um

And maybe I should talk about it after I talk about the... That's pretty much all the flashback. That's all the flashback. So I'll come back to it in a second because there's something specific I want you to weigh into. Let's go to present day Randall. And first day, first week of school or so, he's excited to take the girls out for fro-yo. He's typical over-the-top Randall, just goofy and silly. Yeah, over-the-top Randall. Over-the-top. Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely. Not Sterling. Typical over-the-top Randall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You want to chime in? No. No. Wait. So, okay, this is a good one. This is a good one. Because people will ask me this question, and I think that I have blinders to a certain extent. How much of Randall is Sterling in your opinion? Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. I want this answer. Let's go. Let's go. Give it to me. Wow.

Because I'll accept your perspective because you see me all the time. But you never watch the show. That's the hard part. So you have no reference. So it was, was it, was it, this was, the name, the is, is it, this is? Anyway. Who is it? Yes, you are, I would say you're about, I think it's 77%.

Sandy Sandberg, Sandy Randall? Yeah. Yeah. And then like what part of me is not him, would you say? The fun loving. The nice part. No. I'm laughing because, okay, don't take this the wrong way. I won't take it the wrong way. I'm good. But the part of Randall that like locks in to things that are like,

that he doesn't necessarily want to do, but he does for the greater good of the people around him. Yeah. That's not brown. It's very admirable. No, no, no, no. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to We Don't Always Agree. Yeah. We're talking with... But I actually do agree. When the kids were babies, he'd be like, eh, diaper doesn't need to be changed. He's fine. And I know he loves me and he loves... Whoa! Okay, you know,

You know when that diaper can wait a teensy bit. Yeah. Or you can change it now just for the. Like prematurely. Yeah. He's not going to prematurely change a diaper. I'm getting the full value off the diaper. One poop, there's room for another. I'm getting full. Well, not poop. Not full poop.

No, come on. Come on. That's a bridge too far. But you can get a lot of pee in it. Yeah, yeah. It can be a little heavier. Thank you, man. I get that. I get that. That child needs to be walking different.

I need to see a droop. Or you know when it gets real smooth because it's so heavy? It's so distended. It's like a nice, cold, smooth diaper. That's what he would wait to. There's a lot of landfills out there. Sterling is looking for a 16-inch softball. And yet, when I tried to do the, what do you call it, the cloth diapers, you were like, nah, he was not in. That's admirable. How long did you do that?

We did it with the first child for a bit. She tried to hire like a diaper service or whatnot. And I was just like, man, this is just raw doo-doo. I don't know what to do with it. I don't know how to get rid of it. We never got the hang of it. We never got the knack for it. It's not...

I think you have... You have the genie. Wait, there's a... But the genie's for diapers. There's something else. Some of those cloth ones ended up in the genie. It was a mess. I don't even want to talk. I think there's this level of... You have to have like...

- Double sink. You know, you just have to have a lot of things where you can- - You can't be washing your diapers and your dishes. - You have to have a doo-doo sink. - You have to have a doo-doo sink. - That's a faux pas. - And that's just, we didn't have a doo-doo sink. - Doo-doo sink. - So one time I was outside because we had like a hose right out. Oh, it was, I was like- - That's what those garage sinks are for.

77%. That may be fairly accurate. The energy is very similar. Yeah, like the goofiness? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a lot of goof. It's very effortless. I'm not going to argue that. So anyway, he's being over the top. Randall. Fro-yo! Fro-yo or ice cream? Fro-yo or ice cream. I'm lactose intolerant, so I'll have to go with the fro-yo. But ice cream, come on. Ice cream or gelato? Gelato.

In Australia, we just got back from Australia not too long, there's like gelaterias everywhere. I ate a lot. Yeah. It's delicious. I feel like even just sometimes outside of the country, like the ingredients are a little bit pure and it doesn't mess with your tummy the same way. In the Midwest, they got frozen custard. They do. Oh, yeah. Now that. Those are Ted Drews. Come on. Ted Drews. Jarlings? Do you have jarlings? I don't have jarlings. That's in Illinois. I think so. Okay. That's good. Or you know what? The soft serve from McDonald's used to be like- Yeah, used to be. The best thing ever. What happened? I loved it.

They switched to a different mix. You guys, you think I don't follow this? Chris is so disappointed. I'm also pissed. In and out. I'm also looking at you. You used to have real ice cream shakes. Now you got some powdered mix. Get out of here. No more advertisers. Look, so they...

This is not advertising. I'm coming for you. His two daughters, his two have something else to do. Somebody's got to do a Taylor Swift thing. Somebody's got to do something else. But Deja's free, right? And he's trying to get a little, figure out what's going on with her. Like every time I ask you what's going on with school, you say it's just fine. And she's like, honestly, Randall.

it's a lot of white people, bro. And he's like, there's white people at this school? And she's like, ha ha ha. Well delivered. It was good. She misses her drill team. And so Randall goes back. He and Beth are hanging out. Beth has got some sort of proposal that she's got to do for her job. And it's still at this point in time, we don't know what Beth do. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I got this proposal that I got to finish. City planning.

Yeah, we're like, what do you do, girl? But she's trying to figure it out. She's a CIA agent. Undercover. She's like on the Americans, like living with Randall. So Randall says, like, I'm going to go visit the property. And there's this rec center. And I know this woman who's got a young lady that I think Deja would get along with. So I'm going to make that happen, right? So he goes to the rec center. We meet this woman, Chi-Chi.

Which is a tie-in. We didn't talk about it in the flashback, but this is an old friend of William's. This is an old friend of William's because I think we meet Chi-Chi first. Do we meet Chi-Chi first? Yeah, when she has the baby. Yeah. And then the flashback to William. Shout out to our man, Ron Cephas Jones. I love seeing his sweet face. Seeing him. And we see this Nigerian woman coming off a bus with her baby. And he's like, can I help you out? And she's like, I got it. Don't worry about it. She drops something. And she's very independent. Like, no, just leave me alone. You looked really good in these episodes. Can I say that?

I was thinking the same thing. Was this post his procedures? Yes. There was health. There was health. Vitality back in his eyes. Yeah. And it was sort of cool to see, like, because he's five years sober in that timeline or whatnot. It's like, oh, William looks good. You know what I'm saying? So we meet Chi Chi in the present. And Randall introduces Deja to this girl who was also one of the young ladies who auditioned for Deja. Right? That's right. Very, very cool.

very sweet young girl. And she goes with the drill team and you can tell Deja feels at home, right? She feels comfortable. Randall sits next to Chi-Chi and he's like, why is there a mattress up next to the thing? Because of the hole in the wall. Covered a hole in the wall. Why is there a hole in the wall? Because of the busted pipe. Why is there a busted pipe? Randall, I don't know why you're asking all these questions. He's like, well, maybe I should go talk to somebody about it. She's like, if you want to, you can. He's like, well, maybe I will. She's like, okay. He's like, maybe I'll do it right now. She's like, okay. And he's like,

I'm gonna get up and go do it, right? He goes to visit the councilman, finds Councilman Brown. And this is where Sterling and Randall diverge? Very, very much so. Okay, good, good. He would never ask about a mattress on a wall. Okay, I'm just joking.

And if you did, you'd be like, oh, that makes sense. I don't know how this whole guest co-host thing is working out. The boss is here. And I'm like, you know. This is the first time we meet Councilman Brown. Yes. This is the first time we meet Councilman Brown, who's played by, what's Rob's last name? Somebody tell me his last name. Rob Morgan. Great actor. Who I did two other TV shows with. Are you serious? Yeah. Because he's also in The Nick. Is he? Okay. And he's also in Stranger Things. Oh.

Oh my God. All right, Rob. Rob works. He's all over the place, right? So great actor, great dude, had a great time. And you see him and Randall sort of make this connection in the barbershop. He's very sort of polite and polished. And he's like, yeah, I know that place. Like I had to almost agree to get it shut down or whatnot. But now I'm going to see what I can do. I'm going to send a maintenance crew out there later today. Because Randall's just saying like there's kids in the care and the place is just falling apart. And I wish they just had something better.

He's like, I'll send a maintenance crew tonight. He's like, I'm going to hold you to that. I'm going to be there. And he's like, all right, now you do. And the next thing you see is Randall hanging out late night because the sun has gone down. No maintenance crew. He mentions that there's streetlights that are out, et cetera, holes in it. So Randall says, I'm going to do something. I'm going to get the ladder. He goes outside. He puts in a light bulb. Again, this is not like Sterling. I'll say it before you even get to say it about me. Where did he even get a municipal light bulb? Yeah.

the same thing. I was like, wow, that's a proper street light. Yeah. You just go to Home Depot for that? Proper street light. Randall, Randall don't play. There's a 60 watt. Randall don't play. Sterling, on the other hand, it will just be in darkness for

For a long, long time. I was like, there's other lights. Y'all can see. That's how I'll justify it. The light of the Lord. Amen. That is actually what he was saying. Twinkle, twinkle, little star. Y'all acting like you need electricity. I can see perfectly fine. Orion, there's three dots right there. Look in your heart. Look in your heart. He puts it up. And then he comes back and he's talking to Chi-Chi.

And he's like, yo, I'm gonna stay on him. I put the light up, like I'm do something. And Chi Chi's like, Randall, like, you know, I knew your father. Let's go to the flashback of that again too, because William was making some food. He hears a baby crying across the hall and he brings food over to the hall. So like, you know, I thought you guys might be hungry.

And she's a little overwhelmed or whatnot, just a single mom taking care of things. She says that they moved to this country fairly recently. Her husband passed away before they moved. So she wound up coming as a single mother unintentionally. And William's like, can I give you something to eat? You know?

And she takes a bite of it. He's like, I didn't say it was good. You know what I'm saying? But it is nourishment. So just take it for what it is. And she offers to let him hold the baby. And there's a couple of things that I want to take special note of. Because when COVID came, it was something that like, I'm sure, and I'm sure it's probably a little bit different for you, Mandy, because you had lots of babies all the time. But seriously.

seeing a real baby on screen does something. Yeah. Versus when you have the doll, you know what I'm saying? And you have to cover its head and make sure it's where... But like when the real baby is there, the frame, the DP is always like, hey, make sure you keep that baby. That's an expensive baby. That's an expensive baby. And so folks know, just in case, there's always...

two babies on set and catch one baby wiles out all of a sudden. - Yes, having a bad day. - It's not having a good day. She's like, "All right, I'm gonna switch this baby out, bring any other baby." But that baby was so sweet. And just looking up and like she gave him to William and she said, "You're a natural but not." And you just see the magic happen of like, oh, here's a man who had to give up something.

You know what I mean? You just read that on his face. Like what could have been. And I will say this without even that history. One of the, I think one of the most generous things that can happen to a man is when a woman offers to let you hold her baby because you know, that's her baby. Yeah.

you don't just give your baby to anybody yeah when somebody gives especially a dude because they'll they'll pass off to women relatively quickly happening a lot anymore it's not it used to happen more i think covet sort of shifted things a little bit in terms of germ conscious and everything but like when somebody gives you their baby and it means there's a level of trust yeah that's there and it's just like this is the most precious thing in the world and both brown and chris love the babies because i can remember being on set before he was a father

And I was watching this dude hold a baby. And I rolled up on him. I was like, you ready for one of these, ain't you? And he's like. I remember that day. Yeah, yeah. And then I was like, Sterling, how do you get one? Where can I get one? How do you do this? How do you make one of these? And Sterling was like, I'll send you a video. We'll talk through it.

So I reference all of that to say that Chi Chi winds up saying to Randall, like, you know, it was different with your, I see so much of you and your father, right? - Or your father and you. - Yeah, yeah, your father and you. And he was one of us and was willing and wanting to do these things, but you get here and all you see is problems.

And you don't even sort of like take the time to get to know the people, et cetera. So you're not one of us, dude. We are not our problems. Yeah. Yeah, we're not our problems. And it's really interesting because, and I tie this back to Randall not making the decision to go to Howard and how most of his life is really defined by

by not only just being an adoptee and, like, what I have to do in order to be loved and accepted, wanted, et cetera, but his blackness, right? And is he doing enough for his community? Is he doing too much for his community? And he winds up saying that when he gets to the premiere of the... Right.

of the movie, you know? And he's just like, you know, it's always like not enough or too much. And I'm always just trying to figure out what the right calibration of that is, you know? And it makes me wonder, at the gathering last night, we have friends who went to Morehouse, we have friends who go to Howard, we have friends who've gone to Spelman, whatever. And we're talking about these conversations

about where to send our children eventually and options to think about, right? And I'm curious as to like, I think he would have fundamentally been a different person if he'd gone to Howard. Oh, yeah. And because there would have been this immersion in community where you'll figure out after the course of four years of like where exactly you fit in, right? And not left like for another lifetime of wondering of like,

How do folks see me? How do I see myself in terms of my relationship to my community and everything? Because that's a question he carries with him throughout his entire life. Throughout his entire life. Understandably. Yeah. But I think so much is predicated on that decision and him making the choice to like forego school there. Yeah.

and stay at home with his mom. I mean, it is something that, yeah, we just like continue to explore as the show goes on. - Totally, totally. So that's the conclusion of that one, right? - Yes. - 'Cause we end at the premiere of that. Did you wanna say anything about like, I'm curious for you, right? Because you are such a beautiful lover of your culture, of your heritage, et cetera. Do you ever wonder if you had chosen "Spellman"

what differences would have been? Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm in a very different situation than Randall. Than Randall. Obviously. Yeah, you were raised by him. I mean, obviously, things would have been different. Sure. You know, I would have met different people. I would have had different friends. I would have had a different, you know, there would have just been a completely different... A more helpful husband. Maybe. Maybe.

You did this. But then he wouldn't have been as fun. He probably would have been very helpful, but very blind. This was Sam's suggestion. Maybe we should have Brian on the show to be a co-host. He would have been, yes. But no, I think... Oh my gosh! I love you, I love you. I love you guys!

I started off the whole thing saying I love Ryan too. Go ahead. It's on record. It was early. It was just too early. We're just getting started now. We're veering to the left. I

I don't, you know, I think what Randall would have been able to experience is a diaspora of black people. And I think he would have understood how the, I mean, he probably wouldn't have been the only transracial adoptee at Howard, for sure. He wouldn't have been the only person to have grown up

I'm sure there would have been biracial people who would have grown up solely around white. I mean, he would have seen. Because I thought that was what was so interesting when I got to Stanford was how so many of, not so many, but a lot of my Black peers didn't,

They thought they were the only people who have had that, whatever their experience was, they thought that was the only experience. Because they've been so accustomed to be one of the few or one of the only in most of the environments that they've been in before. Right, or even one of many. I mean, you said when you went to Stanford, you thought everybody was going to be like you. Well, this is a funny story. Because you said that too. And what did we mean by this?

Like, tell them what you, tell them. I think we meant it in sort of more economic terms. We did, because I was saying, I was like, you know, I thought everybody who was black at Stanford was going to be, like, had to have financial aid, was like a hustler and sort of, like, achieved in that way to where Uncle Sam was going to help to foot the bill. And she's like, I thought everyone was going to be like me. And, like, their dads just paid for it. And we talk about people from the opposite side of the tracks, man. And she's like, and I wound up meeting you.

I had a little bit more consciousness that people apply for financial aid, Sterling. Did you? I did. I was not that. Did you apply for financial aid? I did. Not? I did. But did you get it? No, no, no, no, no. Did you get financial aid? I got a lovely note from the financial aid office saying, thank you for this laugh. We needed it. That was hysterical. Your daddy makes too much money. That was so sweet of you. You are an only child, ma'am.

Go have a seat. But thanks for the laugh. My experience was so different because I had to roll up on Arlene Brown and be like, Mama, you got to fill out this thing. It's called a FAFSA. And she's like, what do I sign? I was just telling her how much money you make. She's like, I don't make no money. I was like, well, just put that right there. My father filled out the FAFSA by hand and gave it to me. Really? And that was the first time I saw how much my father made. And you were like, we ain't going to get nothing. And I was like, I don't know.

More That Was Us after this short break.

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Anyway, the point is, is that I wish that Randall could have seen that he wasn't the only one. And that there were so many different ways to show up in the world as a black man, as a black person. Especially at the time that he would have gone. Were we 90s at that point? He's four years younger than us. So, yeah. Did you talk... I mean, this had to be quite the crossroads for the writing staff. Because...

Either path is the amount of storytelling and the possibility involved for that character. Like, was there ever any question that he would go or not? No, no. I think he was always not going to go because I think a lot of what they based Randall and Beth off of is Sterling and Ryan.

And they'd heard how Ryan and I met at a predominantly white institution of higher learning or whatnot. And the financial aid office. And the financial aid office. Because Randall did get it. The bursar's office. We didn't have a whole lot. The bursar, right. We didn't have a lot. We didn't have a whole lot, so Randall got help there. But so yeah, I think they based a lot of it off of us, actually. Okay. Right? Like, yeah. So wait, let's table that for now because I think one of the most interesting developments in this episode is Katobi. Okay.

And one of the first things, I want to talk about you for a little bit. One of the first things that we see is Toby's knee bouncing, right? And it's sort of reminiscent of Randall had a tremor at one point in time before he had his breakdown. He had a little tick. And like even your wife noticing, like, will you stop doing that with your knee or whatnot? But what she doesn't know, that the audience knows, is that last week he took his medicine, threw it into the toilet, right? Yeah, he's detoxing off of his antidepressants.

So talk a little bit about, like, this is new territory for us and Toby. What's it like for you in the plane? Yeah, I mean, it was an interesting moment because it was going to be, like, the first big emotional shift for the character. But I had very limited time.

kind of story time to maneuver these shifts, right? Because there were all these big stories going on and Toby is helping Kate with this process or, you know what I mean? There's a lot of evolution happening. So ironically in season three, I think the story

The amount of words I had to deliver this shift was getting fewer. So it was an interesting kind of shift. And we have a moment as Kate and Toby have decided to go down the IVF route and they're going to Kevin's premiere and they're going to be around all the friends and family and...

And they've decided to keep IVF a secret until they, and they also decide because you have to keep your medication cold. They're going to hide it in the pudding packages. And you have to know Miguel Rivas loves pudding. You have to know this.

Of course, me. You've got to know Miguel loves pudding. Especially the caramel cream. I was like, oh, really? And you're like, oh, wait, wait, wait. And then you see the needle and the vials fall down. And was that scripted or not? That I'm a heroin addict? I think it was scripted, but you can definitely see that I was having a real hard time delivering it. Do you remember that day? I do, I do. I couldn't turn to everybody in the room with a straight face and go, I'm a heroin addict.

It was like I caught the giggles. Taylor wasn't even watching and he watched that part and he just like burst out laughing. I was like, that's silly. Because it was such like economical writing. I'm a heroin addict. Yeah. And you can see it on my face. Like if you know me, like that is the only take that was usable. Yeah. Because it was the only one I didn't laugh in.

Because also, John and I do this, like, slide in. You do the slide across with each other. And we're, like, getting our, like, our supporting actor moment in. And...

And so the secret is out and there's a car ride. And now the family's concern over Kate and Toby going down this IVF road becomes contentious. You guys are in the car headed to the premiere and Rebecca's very vocal. And very vocal because she has a friend that went through it just last year, right? You want to talk a little bit about that? Eloise in Plaza.

Really good writing. Really good writing. Really good writing. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I don't remember shooting this episode. Do you ever have like holes where? Sure, sure. This is one of them where I was watching it thinking, wow, I don't remember being on set with the heroine. I don't remember any of this. All four of us could not keep a straight face. Mandy. I'm sure. I was hysterical. You loved it.

You couldn't. You loved it. I loved it. You were like, this is the best day on set ever. It was amazing. Too bad you can't remember. But Rebecca sometimes, yeah, flips into like super maternal mode. Yes. And it's like, this is a threshold we've never crossed before. But since we're here, like, I'm going to make it known how I feel. It's interesting, too. This is tricky. Compared to the past when she's eating the Pop-Tarts and you sort of like,

clocked out or whatnot you you make a point of saying like listen this egg harvesting thing is not easy especially with someone who is your size and it's it's such an interesting thing because

We all know it is a taboo to reference, but in terms of just health and caring about an individual, you just want that person to do everything they can to be safe and healthy. So it's not even born out of anything. There's no shame in it or anything else. It's like, I want you to be alive as long as possible. Period. That's the only place it emanates from. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Is that the first time we hear Rebecca say something that direct about...

about Kate and her size or is it always oblique? I feel like, yeah, it's always sort of danced around a little bit. Maybe in like previous seasons it's sort of been alluded to, but you're right. I think my reaction watching it was one of like, oof, just because it's... It's about something adjacent to the weight. Exactly. But it was so transparent that you're like, wow, okay, I guess...

that's good that she's just putting it out on the table. Yeah. I mean, it's good and it's also like...

When is the right time to do it? You know what I'm saying? In Rebecca's defense, it's like, I just found out this information. I have something to say about it. Might as well do it now. They're on their way to Kevin's apartment to get ready for the thing. And we roll in mid-conflict. A lot of tension. Kevin Pearson, get ready for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rebecca's on her phone, like, reading. It's kind of cringy. It says right here. Yeah.

Kate hints that Kev's not going to have kids. Like, Kate says in this conversation once they all join Kev is that I'm the only person that has an opportunity to continue dad's legacy. To pass on a piece of dad. To pass on a piece of dad. And Kev's like, what, you think? She's like, come on, Kev. And he's like...

And so we'll dovetail into that because Kev's sort of arc for this whole episode is like, what does it take to be taken seriously? - Yeah. - Right. - What does it take to be taken? - And Toby snaps because he's flushed all of his medication down the toilet. - Toby tells everybody, "Shut up!" - Yes. - "Shut up! Shut the hell up!" - I do remember that part. - I do remember that part. - That's the part you remember? - Oh yeah. - And I called you all asinine, which I thought, "Wow, Jesus." And then he calls everybody asinine, tells everyone to shut up. - Yeah.

And then goes for a walk. Well, he says, like, it's none of your business, Rebecca. This is something between me and my wife. You know, we know the concerns and everything like that. So please, like, let's everybody stop talking about it. And he's like, I know it took too far. I'm going to take a walk. Anyways, got to go. You know what I'm saying? What a delight. As an actor, it's actually one of my favorite things to blow shit up. And then I'll see you later. Leave the scene. Leave the scene. Clearly.

I don't have to deal with the consequences of what I just caused. See you later. I'll be in my trailer. You do remember that. I do remember Chris. You were like, shut up, shut up. And I was like, whoa. So shooting it, give me a little bit about talking about the real estate before getting to step into that scene. What recollections do we have specifically? Yeah, I mean, it's a big emotional shift now in front of people who are not Kate. Right, right.

Right. So it's like there were small conversations in the past between Rebecca and Toby that were like, hey, I appreciate you, but I'm over here with this lady. And this is a different tone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's clearly like, and Kate points it out, like, hey,

That was weird. A little edgy. Remember when you yelled at my mom? Yeah. Well, before we even get to that part, there's a nice little conversation between Kate and Rebecca in which, I'm trying to remember the gist of it, Toby's late for the shot. Right. And basically... She needs her medication, her hormones. She needs her hormones. She needs to have it at a certain time on a regular basis. And Rebecca's like, well, I'll do it.

You know, and Kate's like, really? They go into the bathroom. She pulls up, shows a little thigh or whatnot. She's like, just right here or whatnot. Sure. Bex takes it, puts it in there. And she says, I think there's an apology. So it's like, I just want you to be happy. Like when you become a mom, you'll see like all you want is what is best for your child. Yeah. Like that's it. And I think we have a little bit of a flashback to you and young Kate on the couch as well. What happens in that scene? Cookies. Cookies.

She tells her, she's like, I've gained 25 pounds. And she says, it's been a hard time for all of us. And then you eat a cookie. And then you eat a cookie. And it's an interesting, because it's like a show of solidarity. And it makes you question everything as a parent. Everything. Because you're like, here I am, I think I'm doing something good.

Right. And then you look back on hindsight and you're like, did I do something good? And can it be both things at the same time? Do you know what I'm saying? Like there's no right or wrong necessarily to it. It's just like, I'm doing the best that I know in this moment to be with my child. Yep. Right. But there was still a little shame though. Like, I mean, so many people meet those kinds of moments, shaming people. And because Rebecca had,

Yeah.

And then you think from the perspective of like, well, are you enabling, you know, all the other conversations we've had, but then it's like at its core, to your point, Sterling, you're just meeting someone where they are and you're meeting them where they are with whatever you have left to give. And so it is a little bit like, you know, wow.

Is that the moment? Where I gave her permission? Where I, you know, yeah. I'm sure you could look back and see it both ways. Sure, yeah.

All right, we'll invite you back. When you're not talking about me, you're very insightful. Maybe it could just be just you. I'll learn to change some light bulbs. Is that okay for you guys? You wind up giving the shot and it's a beautiful moment because you're like, listen, in that moment, it's like,

It's not maybe not the safest thing. It's maybe not a choice that I would make, but I'm respecting your life and I'm going to be of service. And I think both things are happening in the past and in the present in that way. You know what I'm saying? Just in a very different way. But don't you think it's interesting that Kate says something that is both very hurtful and also true?

And you say something that is also very hurtful, but also very true. What is the thing that Kate says? Because Kate says, I'm the only one who can pass on dad's genetic material. Yeah. Piece of dad. Which is not technically true. Kev can too. Yes, but you know what I mean. Where you're concerned. She's assuming that he's not going to have kids. Right, right, right. But she completely discounts you and your children as having anything to do with your...

Passing on a piece of data. Biological. And we know what she meant. Yes. But we also know that she could have framed it in a very different way. And she says it when he's not around. Yeah. And it's like, is that how you have always thought about Randall? And is that why Randall never really knows where he fits in? Because you guys...

Pick and choose when Randall is a part and not a part. You know what I mean? That's interesting. And then at the same time, you say something that is also very hurtful. Rebecca says something that's very hurtful, but also very true. There are statistics that show that IVF is very difficult in the best of scenarios. And when someone is not at their opposite,

optimal health, it just becomes, it can be very, very dangerous. More of a challenge, yeah. So it's like you both say these very biologically true things that are also very hurtful. And I just think it's interesting that Kate says that and doesn't

is oblivious to how you would perceive it. - It could be me or my brother. - It will be taken, yeah. - Me or my brother, yeah. - I mean, she's not that oblivious to, you know, but again, it's that very, "Come on, come on, Kev, come on." - She's like, "You're not gonna have kids. What you talking about?" - Yeah. - Which is a perfect segue, thank you, Ryan Michelle, for Kev's storyline, right? At the end of the last episode, we have a warning from Beth. This, "My cousin, Zoe, will break you," right? And we see them at the beginning,

He's laid in bed. No, no, sorry. He's at the premiere. And you see Kate's having an emotional reaction to what's going on on screen. And you turn over. And this is one of those moments for me, Mandy, where you see Jack is watching the premiere too. And like...

- What? - How's Jack doing this thing? And then Kev wakes up, boom, right? So it's also just one more scene that I didn't know that Milo was in with like, you know, everybody else, right? And you see Kev sort of roll over. Zoe's listening to, he's interpreting a French documentarian or something for her thing. And he's just trying to be amorous and lovey and sort of just connected, you know?

And he tells her he wants to invite her to the premiere. And she's like, ah, that might be a bit too much. And he's like, yeah. And she says, I just want to keep it light and cash. And he's like, oh, totally. I'm the most cash dude. I wear cashmere. That's my thing. And she's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Right? So he plays it off.

He plays, "Ha ha ha." You know, I say, "I'm getting a fever." He got a little jungle fever going on. And she's trying to keep it cash. So he says, "I'll take you to the airport." She's gotta go to Chicago the next day. He's like, "I'll take you to the airport." And she's like, "No, look, I'm just trying to keep it real mellow." He's like, "Okay." And then we see him waiting for everybody for the premiere. Hold on, I wanna make sure I get this one right. Because I think this is an interesting storyline

for him that I think pays off later in the show. This idea of no one really taking him seriously. - And dad was the only one. - That's what I'm saying. Because Kate's- - He responds to Kate that way. - He responds to Kate like, "What do you mean? You're the only person that can pass on that." - She says, "Are you serious?" - Yeah, she says, "Yeah." And then he winds up telling this story to Randall at the premiere.

Like, there's a whole bunch of drama going on. Kate's thinking about doing IVF or whatnot. And Randall's like, oh, really? Really freshly off of his whole idea of, like, am I enough within my community to be of anything? And Kev's telling me, he's like, and Kate said, like, she's the only person who can pass on a piece of that. Like, what does she remember that? And you see Randall just stop. Yeah. Squawk.

Just stop as Kev keeps going on. And he's telling him, he's like, you know, I guess, is he talking to Randall when he says this thing about dad was the only person? He says to Kate, he says, he was always the hardest one on me. And I think it was because he was the one person in the world that took me seriously. Yeah. Which is such a sad thought. Like, you know, the loss of Jack means something different to each one of us.

to each one of the Pearson family. We all had a different relationship. Because I was Jack Pearson's boy. And now he's become the Manny, right? And he knows that people haven't been taking him serious as an actor, right? He got into this relationship with his ex-wife that he was very hopeful about, but then the idea of kids sort of freaked him out. So he's even questioning how serious he takes himself. You know what I mean? And will anybody else sort of see me in that?

way. And this movie is a chance for him to be taken. This movie is an opportunity. Zoe is seeing him, I believe, on the red carpet being asked questions about, like, do you have anybody special with you here tonight? And he's like, no, just here with my family and everything else. And she sends a text saying, like, I get home from the airport, like, pick me up at this time. And so there's a reason to smile there. Like, maybe she's sort of coming around. But then that frees on Randall. And Randall ultimately says she's the only person that

you know, sees herself as being able to pass on a piece of dad. And like, my heart broke a little bit because that's not what she meant. She wasn't trying to throw shade, but that's really what he felt in it. So you got two brothers sort of questioning like, well, what am I, chopped liver? Mm-hmm.

And she's sort of like, y'all ain't chopped liver, but I'm going through something myself. Yeah. You know, we all got some shit. Yeah. Such is life. Typical Pearsons. Typical Pearsons. Should we do a fan segment? I think we should do a fan segment. Is there anything else in terms of the end of this episode? No. No? I think we touched everything else. We should also thank Ryan Michelle. We'll keep her around for the fan segment. Yes, please. You have wonderful insight when you're not talking about me. Aw. Aw.

And I appreciate it all a great deal. And actually, I love you, even though you treat me terribly. Stop saying actually. It's always a surprise when you say that. No one's surprised. Surprised to himself, all of us. No one's surprised. Actually, I love you. She's like, you're most of the goofy part of Randall, but the productive part, not so much. This has been We Don't Always Agree. You want to plug it? No. No.

No. I'm going to plug it. If you haven't listened to their podcast, it's called We Don't Always Agree. And it is an incredible look into your marriage. It is. It was actually a lot of fun. That's a really good... You're good at this. You're a strage. I listen to every episode. I was fascinated by the whole thing. Thank you, man. We appreciate it. And it was very helpful. It was great to do together. And I think the biggest comment that I get is like, how are you guys...

Able to talk about that stuff and we were saying this to each other the other day We're 19 years in and there's certain conversations probably three four years in that we couldn't talk about Without feeling like you were reliving it But now we it's almost like we have enough we've gotten to the other side of so many things that you can recount it and be like you remember when With distance and not feel like it's triggering sure something. You know, what are you guys gonna do to celebrate 20 and

Oh, that's a good... I don't think we thought of it. Just putting it out there. That's a really good question. We should do an episode of this podcast. But for us, like 20 is the same year that we turn 50. So we have all of that to do. Or the same year that I turn 50. Not you. No, yeah. I just want to be clear about that. You know what? Edit it out.

Even though they know we met freshman year of college. They don't know how old I was. You're some wunderkind. She did get into every school she went to. Thank you. Harvard. You don't do that without being a little bit older.

- Dukie Blackser, whatever your name is. - Dukie Black, come on man. - Edit that out, edit that out. - You could have done better than that. - Boogie Houser? - Bougie Houser. - Bougie Houser. - Bougie Houser is better. - There we go. - Bougie Houser is better. Keep the whole thing in for the Bougie Houser video. - Keep it in. - Let's do a fan segment, we'll be right back.

Gang, here we are. You know what time it is. It is time for our fan segment. This time we're going to be talking about people's decisions surrounding college. So after watching Randall decide not to go to Howard so he could stay close to home, it got us thinking about those big decisions

decisions we make after high school. We received a beautiful email from one of our listeners, and we're going to read that email and then give her a call after. Let's do that. Let's hear her story. This is such a cute podcast. I love this guy. You should listen to the podcast. It's cool. You would love this podcast. Like and subscribe. It starts right here.

I was struck by Chris's comment following the chat about William's visions, referencing seeing a life that never was and that it was a positive glimpse at a future that never happened. I lost my mom at 17 in May of my senior year of high school. That experience not only changed me, but the trajectory of my life.

Prior to my mom getting sick, I had envisioned myself going to school at NYU, becoming either a journalist or author, and living a busy, exciting life in NYC. Instead, my mom passed away from cancer three weeks before my high school graduation. Being the youngest of five, I felt I should stay close to home and my dad, so I went to community college for business before switching to humanities and then transferring to a local college to get my BA in English.

I eventually went into education as a teaching assistant for emotionally disabled children before meeting my husband and going on a years-long fertility journey to have our children.

To say this was not the version of my life I thought I'd be living is an understatement. Now, as our 15-year-old daughter starts to figure out her next moves after high school, I am brought back to my 1994 self. That young high schooler was excited to take on the city and the world, only to have the most important person in my life taken from me just as I was going to venture out of my small hometown and big Irish family.

It still lives in the back of my mind, the life that could have been, the me that could have been. Some days I shake my head, knowing I am exactly who and where I am supposed to be in this life. But there are moments where I catch a glimpse of the Noreen who just released another best-selling book and is a world traveler on assignment writing exposés, and I smile through a tear or two.

My imagined self might have been more carefree, but the me I actually am has walked through many storms and feels more powerful for it and has the love and support of a man and children I never could have imagined in 1994. As the poem goes, I chose the road less traveled by and that has made all the difference. Thanks for always talking about topics that speak to my soul. I enjoy every episode of the podcast. You guys, and this is us, means the world to me.

Noreen Toastley. Oh, Noreen, we should give her a call. Yes. Let's give Noreen a call. Hello! Are we here? Hi, Noreen. How are you?

Very good. Very good. I also want to let you know, besides Mandy, Chris, and myself, Sterling, my wife is joining us as a guest host, Ryan Michelle Bethay. So, Ryan, say hi to Noreen. Hi, Noreen. Nice to meet you. Hello there. I'm glad you finally made it onto the podcast. Exactly, right? Right on. We've wanted you forever. Your letter was exceptionally beautiful. Let me say, first and foremost, thank you.

I know it was a while ago, but what a difficult experience that must have been senior year of high school to lose the rock of your family. Absolutely.

Forever changed, as they say. Never to be the same. Forever changed. But the way in which you sort of highlight it is that you being exactly where you're supposed to be. Like there is, you know, obviously a sense of loss. But like if things didn't play out the way that they did, you wouldn't be the individual that you are. And it seems that the individual that you are is pretty impressive. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're very, very welcome.

Tell us about your books. I mean, this is why I was just doing a little Google. Tell us about your books that you just had your second book released. Oh, I wish. In my mind, yes. In your mind. Did I misread something? In her other life. In her other life, yes. I misread the letter.

I blog, but that's about as far as I'd go with that. Well, tell us about that then. Yeah. I have a grief blog that I started after I lost my triplets at 22 weeks in 2010. Oh, Maureen. Yeah. Your show has been like a mirror to my life in so many ways, I can't even begin to tell you. So, yeah. So, I took writing back on because I...

I wrote a little bit after my mom passed, but then I kind of gave up on writing for quite a while. And then I got back into it with a grief blog. And then now I've also started a blog kind of talking about how I'm becoming the person I am now through all of my journeys through my life. Do you have, I'm curious because, I mean, in losing mom, in that miscarriage or whatnot, like...

What are the coping strategies that you found most helpful for you in terms of just processing and moving and living with grief? Music plays a big part. I've always been a person that can turn to music no matter happy, sad, whatever's going on in my life. I'm definitely a music person and that helps cope. And I've also had a lot of people in my life that have had losses. So I kind of have like a kind of a group of us that kind of bond together through grief.

So that's helped. Community. Yeah, community is always the answer, right? Not feeling like you're an anomaly. I have a question about your connection to the show. Like, were you able to start...

watching the show from the jump because we often talk about understandably like the show is not for everyone at specific times like it's totally understandable that it might be too much to take on and people either can never watch it or come to it later after

maybe they've processed something that's happening in their life that they maybe find it just too difficult to take on all of the emotional information that the show sort of touches upon. So was the show something that you found and found it to be helpful in your journey? The group,

grief group that I belong to online actually was talking about the trailer when it first came out. And they were like, we're just warning you if it's something that you can handle, we think you should, but if it's not, that kind of a thing. And then my sister-in-law called me and she's like, you have to watch this.

She's like, I know it's going to be hard, but you have to watch this trailer. And as soon as I completely broke and I love Dr. K for that speech in that episode, because that speaks to my entire life. And yeah, I loved it from the beginning. Every episode, I had a box of tissues just in case and got through every season, every episode and loved it. Absolutely loved it. Yeah.

Yes, it was like holding up a mirror to my life. All the different characters and all the different experiences. I could see myself. I could see people in my family. I could see other loved ones. It was just incredible. And I thank you guys. I love this podcast for revisiting it. And I love the show every episode, every minute.

We appreciate it. We're so grateful, grateful that you're on this journey with us and so humbled that even the show, what we were a part of was helpful, even remotely helpful for you in the midst of your grief. And it actually helped my husband as well. I forced him into watching it with me. He works nights. He's a police officer. So he wouldn't be here Tuesday nights. But the next day he would come home and I'd be like,

can you watch it with me? You want to watch it? And it allowed us to speak about things that we weren't able to say to each other prior to that. And that's incredible. Wow.

life-changing actually so thank you again for that thank you uh noreen thank you for sharing your soul with us and your letter is gorgeous and if you haven't i want to read your second book too if people wanted to check out your blog what where would they find it

It's on Weebly.com. It's called Life After Death is the grief one. And the other one is Pieces of Me. Okay, great. And if you were going to write a book, what would you write a book about? My children. Yeah. How old are your children? Absolutely. I have a 15-year-old. I have twin boys that are 11. And we lost several along the way. God bless you, Noreen. Wow. What are their names? Yeah.

My daughter is Maggie. She's named after my mom. And my sons are Joseph and Christian.

Joseph Christian. That big Irish family. Can I call Maggie Peggy when I see her sometimes? Or do you just stick with Maggie? Because I like Peggy as the nickname. It's strictly Maggie Rose after my mom. Maggie Rose. That's a good name. That's right, Maggie Rose. God bless you, Noreen. Thank you for sharing with us again. We love you. And thank you for this. I appreciate it. I love you guys so much. Thank you. Right on, sister. Take care. Have a good day. You too. Bye. Bye-bye.

What a story. What a life. You know? The vulnerability just to be able to share that. I didn't know if she had children or not after she had talked about the part. It made me just fill up a little bit more. Yeah. That's it. I just... Noreen. She ended up with three? She ended up with three. She ended up with three. Look at that, man. All right, listen. That's the fan segment. Like, that's the kind...

Guys, listen. I know. We always get filled up probably more even than the fans. But knowing that the show...

had that kind of impact for people to be able to share so much of themselves with us. - And with each other, that she and her husband, it elicited conversations between them. Like is so incredible to have that kind of impact. - We were blessed. We were blessed to be a part of something like this that meant something to so many people. So I love you guys and thank you for doing this part. - Wait, can I ask a question? - What's your question? - You know, you guys, your show came at a time

When it was like the shows that were so popular where you, the heroes weren't even here with the antihero. You could barely root for them. You know, it was like they were so you watched to hate. You watched because you didn't like them and you wanted to see, you know, and you guys were not only did you guys go back in time, but it's almost like you went back in time and grabbed the people.

of the shows that we used to love where you could, you wanted to love each and every one of your characters. There wasn't, your characters are so profoundly human but ultimately profoundly good as opposed to what was on TV at the time which was like,

Like, no one's all good or all bad, but they're mostly bad. You know what I mean? What was that like for you guys? That's an interesting question because where I would see me, I mean, I love the Mad Men's and the Breaking Bad's and Sopranos and all these other shows very much. And I guess you are right to some extent because that's just not Dan.

I think that's not what is in his heart to put out into the world. He is a fundamentally good dude, and I think he wanted to see goodness. Yeah. It seems like everything we grew up with, that they did not think it was possible to make good people interesting. Right. That it was in vogue anymore. And there's so much drama in it.

in all of our lives. Yeah. Like, if you write this family down on paper, it seems completely outlandish. Right. All of, like, the details on paper of this family. Sure. The addiction and the adoption and the, like, and then you take a step back and it's like every family you've ever met. Yeah. Has these same stories. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it also, like, unfolded at a time where it's, we sort of started thinking

Things started to feel incredibly divisive. And the fact that we were a part of something that felt ultimately like unifying felt good. Like we were a part of something that was inherently hopeful. And I think we definitely need that now, but like we really needed it then too. And I just remember like we all, it felt good. It felt good to put something out on the world that was like, was universally sort of across the board, like, like,

put on a bit of a pedestal in that sense of like, oh, you can make entertainment that is for everybody, but also like is elevated. Yeah. I think that... We're not talking down to the audience. That's, I think, his sort of...

superpower and that Fogelman specifically in that there's something that had a wide ranging appeal for a very broad audience and still received sort of accolades from the industry as well you know it's usually sort of like either or but they were able to sort of like bridge those things in a really lovely way so thank you for saying that's a good question would you do us the honor of looking in that camera and saying that was us

That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.