Happy Thanksgiving | "Pilgrim Rick" (S1E8)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing 108, Pilgrim Rick, air date 11-22-16. An unforeseen detour interrupts Jack, Rebecca, and the kids' trip to their traditional Thanksgiving dinner. Kate makes life-altering decisions. Olivia accompanies Kevin to Randall's house, and Randall learns a heartbreaking secret.

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Thank you.

I say good morning, lady and gentleman. - Good morning. - How are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. You were saying, Chris, just off camera, these episodes start to hit a little different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there anything you want to-- I mean, it was just-- First of all, it was good to see Thanksgiving Randall. Thank you. Forgot about Thanksgiving Randall. Thanksgiving Randall is one of my favorite things in the world. I found it-- In rewatching it, I found it so-- Such a charming choice for the writers

- 'Cause you'd think it would be Christmas, Randall. Like if somebody asked you ahead of time. - Yeah, that feels like the more traditional obvious choice. - Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. - What holiday does he love? And Thanksgiving is way better. - Thanksgiving is his jam. - Focused on gratitude, focused on family. - But the way they pull it all together. - Yeah. - My question is though, for someone who loves Thanksgiving so much, why is Randall not like a bit more of a prepper?

Do you know what I mean? Not like a prepper prepper, but like, why isn't he like the day before? I'm like, oh, he just sets his alarm early on Thanksgiving day. I'm like, I would have thought he had stuff in the fridge already. You know what I'm saying? Like half done. You think there'd be a little bit more pre-planning that goes into it. But I think the spontaneity of the day.

I think it happening on the day means something too. Do you know what I mean? And I feel like I had kind of forgotten and going back and watching these episodes. I'm with you, Chris. I think it hits different as a parent now. Yeah. I had a long conversation with my husband, which we'll get into after 109. Oh, goodness. But I love that like how we really discover –

all of the traditions that stem from this one particular Thanksgiving that goes awry for the Pearsons and just how, how like broadly it sort of influenced the family for years to come. Right. Yes, ma'am. The worst, the quote unquote worst Thanksgiving. Yep. Is the one that creates all of the. Tradition. Closeness and the tradition and the, and the, the positive memories, um, which I, I,

I think that's true for my life, too. Really? I think so. Wow. Well, I think, I don't mean like the horrible experiences are the things that I love the most. What I mean is like when unexpected things happen and you thought you knew how you wanted things to go,

But the universe says, no, it's actually going this way. And it's going to be much more enjoyable if you just allow it and go with the flow. I mean, I feel like Jack Pearson really is a hero. And he took that Dr. K advice that he got when his kids were born and was like, you know what?

If you give me a lemon, I'm gonna show you something. I'm gonna add a little sugar to this joint. - Yeah. - I'm gonna put a little vanilla in there. We're gonna mix it up with some ice and we're gonna turn it into something nice. - That's right. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Yeah. - This was like one of his more, you know, first like heroic moments in a way. I was like, oh, Superdad is- - It's pretty outstanding. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Is making it all work because

I think we opened this episode and recognized just how stressful Thanksgiving is for Rebecca. Let's start there. Let's start there, okay? We start with Rebecca making this cranberry sauce. Speaking of preparing on the day. Yeah. Listen, but her cranberries, to your credit, stuff look nice. I was like, oh, the red wine. I don't even like cranberries.

- Same. - I was looking at it, I was like, I would tear that up. - Orange zest. - Ginger. - Some orange zest, some red wine. I was like, this is an interesting recipe. - Turns out she was just making sangria. - Yeah. Totally. - Edible, with a little bit of a chew to it. - That you could spoon. Spoonable sangria. - It led me to my first question, honestly. Are you a cook? - I'm not. - You know what's funny? I'm not either.

Thank God for editing. That's what I think when I watch those sequences. I'm like, oh, wow, they managed to make it look like I knew what I was doing when truly I did. Like literally when the props department has to walk me through every single step. Yeah. Like just the minutia. I mean, that's how I feel about 90% of my acting career. Totally.

- It's just like, wow, they really made it look. - They made us look like we knew what we were doing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Thank you editors, we appreciate you. - So much. - And then Jack talks about how he was hoping that one day, like after his parents passed away, that they'd start to form their own tradition. So he sort of plants,

that seed right there. Right. Right. You also now have two boys. They're still young though. Cause it's the two boys that run into each other that knock stuff over. Yeah. What kind of rambunctious, they're not rambunctious yet. Are they? They're not quite there yet. They're still teeny tiny. Yeah. 18 months and,

- Three. - Yeah. - I see the makings of it though, 'cause they're close enough in age where they're almost, you know, they're definitely gonna have that kind of relationship. - It gets to a place with my two boys when they walk into the kitchen and I have something close, I just hold it up and I hold one arm out just to keep them away from me. - Yeah, keep things safe. - You know, because I was like, just to, I know what's going to happen. I'm giving them the Heisman, just it's not gonna, yeah. Randall has that first thing about, I don't like going there.

to his grandparents' house because they take the pictures and then they go, "Okay, okay." - Now just the twins. - Let's get one with just the twins. - Sure. - Right? And then we have this note in our producer notes of this saying that like, how much our kids pick up on, even though we think that like innocuous things are happening and they may not be paying attention, they absorb.

- Everything. - Right. Yeah, and if we've learned anything about Randall, he is a highly sensitive human as well. So of any of the children, he's going to absorb what's happening around him. And I think it's interesting that so far, my kids are very young, but the things that I think are going to affect them are just

Gone to the wind. Really? And little things like, okay, my son split his eye open. Yeah. He had to have his face stitched up. We had to hold him down. Four adults had to hold him down while a three-year-old had his eyebrows stitched up. I thought, well, here we go. This is nightmares for a month. The next day, I'm like, I need to approach this with him. I'm like, Spick, is there anything you want to talk about? How are you feeling about not a memory? Yeah.

Not a memory. On to the next. Yeah, yeah. I was like, at the hospital when we got the stitches. Was that scary? And he just blanked his blank face. Like, well, we got to watch all those cartoons at the hospital. Is that what you're talking about? Like, no. But then other little tiny things about when I like yelled,

Not at him, but like just at, hey, remember when you did that? Why did you do that? And it was like a year ago. - Sure. - Yeah. - Buddy, you were two. - Yeah. - Like you were nonverbal. - It's the memory, yeah. - It's the emotional impact that sort of like evokes the trauma. Like there could be a physical thing that happens, but it's the emotional trigger. So I think from Barry's like, oh, I had to get a stitch. Like nobody was doing anything wrong.

- Right. - Right. - So it's like that had to happen. - Right, right. - Sure. - I don't know if you had to yell at me. - It wasn't even at him. It was just like, I was like yelling to get someone's attention. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But it startled him and dad's voice sounded different. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, and so it's kind of the same with this episode and traditions. Like the things, like if you tried to make any of these things traditions, wouldn't stick. But because of how it all unfolds,

Generations and generations will eat hot dogs wrapped in cheese and rolled in crackers. With the saltines. Let's continue with that storyline, though. So they get in the car. They're on their way.

What's a song that we're playing in the car? - You can call me out. - Call me out baby. - It's Paul Simon. - Jamming on the one. Thank you that we got the rights to it. Sometimes you try to get the right to these songs. - I know, I was like, "Great Sam, that feels like it was pricey." - This was part of like the first thing that got me into this episode. The next one was like, my mom's car was Paul Simon all the way up.

- All the time. - Oh, wow. All day, every-- She had one group of CDs and it was a three-disc set of like Paul Simon's greatest hits. So like, as soon as Paul Simon hits, I go to a different age. - Wow. - Yeah. I love that.

- They're driving in the car. - To Rebecca's parents. We've already sort of gotten an inkling too that there is a contentious relationship between her and her parents. - Yeah, which we build out a little bit later. - We do, for sure. - Which is really cool to see, 'cause who plays your mom? - Elizabeth Perkins. - Perkins! - Yes. - Yeah, killer. - Love. - And your dad, Matheson? - Yes. - Oh God, this is great stuff. - Yeah. - We'll catch up. - Yeah. - Things to come.

But they're driving and like, was it just a swerve? What happened? You hit a bump? A tire blew out. Tire blows out. Man, have you guys had this ever happen? Knock on wood, no. No, no. Had it happen. Yeah. And it is freaky. My wife was in the car. This was on the highway. She was swerving. She hit the median. Oof. Then careened from the median all the way over to the other side of the highway without getting hit again. Oh, God.

And everybody just has a collective sort of moment. And I got kudos to the kids in the back seat, because the look on their face, that's it. They're like, "You guys okay?" They're like, "Oh no." - Yeah, yes. - And especially in a 1990 Grand Wagon here. That thing barely drives on all four tires, let alone with one blown out. - There's no airbags.

Barely seatbelt. Back in the day when you just like... My favorite move, this will remind me, and this is not applicable to this particular thing, but if I'm in the front seat with my mom, have you guys all experienced this move where she has to hit the brakes fast? Yeah. Yeah. It's my favorite. Yeah. It's my absolute favorite. It only happens with people who are alive...

before shoulder harnesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, now it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen as much. I will every once in a while with Andrew because he gets to sit in the front seat now. I'll still like do it. And I was like, oh, you're fine. But it is instinctive. I would just break my arm. I remember the children were always confused when we would get in some of these older model vehicles because they would go to get the shoulder strap and it's like, oh, no, no, no. It's just a lap belt, guys. And they're sort of like, what? Best of luck. Yeah.

Yeah, off to grandma's house. I don't understand this. It doesn't compute. This is my carpool life going to school as a kid. So then we have, we got to hike.

we got a hike how far did we have to walk 3.4 miles come on now mama i knew you knew yeah they go on this hike to get to uh whatever lodge or they're trying to get the tow truck with a car sure hats off the casting my man and uh that's off the casting has to offer this is when the episode turns horror movie yeah like the look of it changes the tone of it changes the lighting is like is it high

- It is, it is spooky. - It gets creepy, yeah. - My man's like, "You're not gonna get a tow truck today?" He's like, "Why not?" He's like, "It's Thanksgiving." And so it's like, all right, we gotta pivot. Mom goes to the phone. Is this when you go to the phone to call? Let them know what's going on? And then you're like, "You know what? We're not going." They've already told you, the kids have told you in the hike, right? Listen, anytime we go there, you know, grandparents are sort of wilding out and they said, "It's not just them.

And they said, like, it's you too, mom. Like your voice goes to this weird place. You're aggravated. Yeah. And you're like, what are you talking about? And then you get on the phone. Hats off to Mandy Moore on the phone talking to her mom. And you hear the voice go up. And you're like, you know what?

- A shift has occurred. - A shift. - You're like, you know, I'm not gonna do this to my kids anymore, right? And Jack is listening. He's like, what's up? And she's like, I guess we're doing something else. We gotta go to this, what's the name of the lodge? I can't remember the name. - Pinewood Lodge. - Pinewood Lodge, something like that. And he's so happy. He's like, great, great. - Gonna make it work. - It's gonna be wonderful. - It's just our Thanksgiving now. - We're gonna make it work. And you get there. - And then the casting department shows up again. - Dude, my man who plays Pilgrim Rick

I was like, you could not have come up with a better choice. This dude was so committed. - So committed. - And the thing is, if he wasn't committed, then Milo wouldn't have had anything to play off of. You know what I'm saying? Like this dude was great.

I was like, welcome to Pilgrim Red. He's just a whole thing. It's a bit. He's doing a bit. He's doing a bit. Maybe a question. Is he doing a bit? You show up in July. This guy's still in the Pilgrim hat. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. So then we go from there. We get to the cabin. And it's like, okay, things are not great.

- Right. - There's no food options. - No food options. - The kids are cranky. - Furnaces on and stuck on, can't get it off, what have you. So Jack's like, "Let me go see if I can find somebody for maintenance, what have you, see if we can fix this thing." Get a knock on the door, boom, boom, boom. Everybody's like, "Hey, hello, what's up? What's going on?" "It's Pilgrim Rick."

And she's like, "Oh, we're okay, Pilgrim." - Yeah, we're good. We don't need you to come in here and fix the furnace. - He does a pretty good impersonation of him too. - He does a great impersonation of him. Pilgrim Rick. And they're like, "You know what, bro? You stay out." - Here to fix your furnace. - Things are about as bad as they can be. I'm coming in. - And it's such, dude, I mean like,

I don't even know how to explain it. Like the just sort of sense of warmth and joy of seeing this man refuse to let it go bad for his family. He just refused, right? He comes back with Police Academy 3 and wisely, Rebecca's like, is this good for the kids? It's like this between this and nine and a half weeks. We go with it.

This was another like of my own childhood touchstone. Are you serious? The Police Academy movies. Police Academy movies are pretty great. They are not...

- Did they hold up? Did they not hold up? They were great when I was a kid. - Of course, of course. Because we should not have been watching them. - They should not. - They are. - Totally inappropriate. - Totally inappropriate. - We watched a lot of risque stuff. - But it was another touch point for me. I was like, okay, Paul Simon hits and then, oh, Police Academy 3. I forgot about Police Academy 3. It was just, it was another like kickback to, yeah, you make do with what you have. - Yeah, yeah, you absolutely do. And,

You know, he comes back with sticks and we're gonna put the dogs on the sticks and it became fun for the kids. We get to stick the hot dogs into the furnace. - First of all, what's a furnace? Wait, this room is heated by open flame? There's a gas?

- Component that we're sleeping? - Was this 1864? It used to be a metal box on the wall with an open flame on the bottom. - Open flame, baby. This is how we do at Pinewood, whatever. We have an open flame. And we're gonna roll it in the cheese and we're gonna coat it in the crackers and it becomes a thing, right? - Yeah. - And the last thing we see

I don't wanna miss anything, but just that moment of them all lying in bed together and Randall being hugged up by his mom saying, "I changed my mind about Thanksgiving." I want it to be exactly like this for the rest of my life, bro. Now listen, I'm not Teflon yet. So the show always moved me. It's still, I've done this already. Why am I still crying?

- I'm crying, it's just so much fun. - Yeah, why am I still feeling all of this? - Lord have mercy. It was so beautiful. - It's beautiful. It really is. And I love the tradition too of Kate's sweater was starting to unravel, her itchy sweater. - Yeah, yes, yeah. - And Rebecca sort of came up with the idea of like,

let's go around in like a circle and talk about what we're thankful for. - And destroy this sweater. - Let's destroy the sweater. - She's been itching in this sweater. - Grandma made this awful sweater. - The whole episode. - The metaphor of grandma's there. You know what we'll do with grandma's sweater? Slowly unravel it with our gratitude. - This is a moment where I think in my mind as an actor, have the producers come to me and told, am I getting written off this show? - When I read, I don't think this is gonna work.

uh toby said what do you mean and chris sullivan reads i said what do you mean that's the end of it this won't work i think it'll work great what does toby have to change what does toby have to change do i mean i'll do whatever i don't care whatever you need i'll you need me to die i will die he'll die it i'll make chris sullivan will make toby die no it was i was

- Don't think I wasn't worried. - I'm saying like, did anybody come to you beforehand? - No. - No, you're just like, okay, so this is it. - So you trusted. - Trust, I don't know. Like I said, remember, I was on a one year contract. - He was on a one year contract. - But also first table read, first TV, like first, like I didn't know how any of this worked.

I had heard stories about people being like, yeah. - So you're like, oh, this is how it happens. - And then my character got shot and that was it. And I was like, oh, here we go. - So some of you who's been there, it usually happens either at that episode or an episode before. They'll come up to you and be like, hey man, I just want you to know you've done a great job. We really appreciated everything you've done on this. We got sweeps coming up or whatnot. And so somebody's kind of gotta go and it's gonna be your character. And you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, you're cool. - Obviously. - Totally, I get that. - Thanks for having me. - Totally, my pleasure. - I love that. - My. - Thanks for having me. This was so fun. - I had so much fun, you guys. - Thank you for the opportunity, oh my God. - Yeah, if anybody wants to know about the life of an actor.

Whenever anyone in a position of power comes to you and says, "Hey, I gotta say, you're doing a great job." What goes through our head is not, "Wow, I've been doing a great job." It's, "Oh, okay, but you're gonna have to recast?" - Yeah. - Something bad's about to come out of their mouth. - Something bad is about to go down. - Yeah. - So, okay, so you have this conversation with Kate.

And this is also one of these moments where I can't wait till Chrissy comes on. - Me too, I was thinking about that. - Because everything with Chrissy, it's just on the surface. - That was in my notes. I was like, she has immediate access. - Her trying to catch her breath, to retain control of the conversation. Yeah, the breath was so real.

And such an interesting choice, because it's obviously what someone would perhaps do in the moment in real life. But normally as an actor, that's not necessarily the route you would take it. It was so beautiful and it really grounded you in the moment of like, "Oh, this is such a conflicted person." This is someone who clearly loves this person she's partnered with.

and is so lost and just doesn't know what to do. And this just feels like-- - Something has to change. - Something has to change. And so like, this is the easiest thing to do, or this feels like the obvious thing to do, or the self-sabotage-y thing to do, like all of that. But I agree with you. I can't wait to have her on so we can get into all of this. - We love you, Chrissy Metz. - Yes. - More "That Was Us" after these words from our sponsors.

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Backtracking just a little bit because we go to the Overeaters anonymous meeting and somebody's talking about how they just got gastric and how they lost, you know, seeing 30 pounds have come off or whatnot. And this was like a big, I think it was a bigger conversation when we were shooting the show. There was a lot of people deciding it and they were deciding whether or not it was safe for them.

or weighing the consequences of the possibilities of bad things that could happen versus what the good things were, et cetera. 'Cause it's a real consideration. - Several public figures were getting it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this comes up in there and that seed gets planted in that class and you see her just listening.

And just sort of, and as I'm watching her listening, I'm like, my sister's not in a good place. Like that's like, I was just like, as it ran, I was like, she's not in a good place right now. So when she comes to sit down with you at the dinner and oh, happy-go-lucky Toby is, you know, he's living his best life and doesn't know. And she's just like, I don't think I can do this anymore. Or she says, when we go, when I go, I don't think I should bring you home with me.

And it's interesting. I didn't think I could fall. I told you I couldn't fall in love with a fat person. That's one of the bars that she drops. And you dropped back, but you did. You fell in love with me, right? So now what do you do with that?

And God, if you just saw it, like, I mean, you saw it all happening. Like at the same time, like, I love you and I love you. And it wasn't a, but it was a love you. And I don't know if I can become the person that I want to, if I stay here, I just went home and I smashed, was it donuts that she wound up killing or whatnot. And it's just sort of like, I'm trying to find my North star, but I've attached myself to someone who has a different sort of North star. Yeah.

Yeah, it's one of the first, not one of the first, I think it's happened earlier in earlier episodes, but it is a trend in our show to deliver like brutal honesty with the most love and compassion that a character can muster. And it happens a lot. And it happens a lot in this episode and the next episode where I was just amazed at like the brutality is such a violent word, but like the, the,

- Rigorous honesty. - The uncut. Yeah. That is also delivered by the performer, Chrissy Yu, with so much love in their face, which makes it hurt more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so then we'll continue with Sister.

Sister leaves you and we don't know what's going to happen with Katobi. Everybody's already shipped them. I've shipped them. I don't know how everybody, I've shipped them. I like my brother-in-law. Tobias is a good dude. She gets on the plane. And this was a really, this was a moment for me of real sort of like checking oneself.

I'm gonna be honest. I've had a feeling like when I'm sitting on the plane and a big person sits next to me. I was like, oh, I don't get whatever, the armrest, whatever. I'm gonna be perfectly honest, right? And I never until this moment thought about what the F they go through having to get on that plane and knowing that everybody's doing that ish, right? And it caught me. And I was like, oh, Brown, you can be fucking better, right?

And you see her come and be like, don't worry. I bought both of these seats. Right? Like just before you even like have anything to say about it. You don't have to worry about me rubbing up against you or anything. Cause I got, and I was like, fuck.

you got me yeah got me man it's a real consideration yeah yeah and then the flight attendant comes up and is like here's your seat belt extender and you could just tell that kate is like i got it got it like i got yeah like this is the less attention i can draw to any of this i just want to get on get to where i'm going sure just like everybody else without making a scene and be on my way right correct i mean it's the the separation that we

walk through life with, right. As we, as we, as we separate ourselves from people in some ways to keep ourselves safe or to keep ourselves, you know, uh, moving through the world. Yeah. Until all of that gets broken down by a uniting experience. Yeah. Which is this moment of turbulence. Yes.

Right? An excellent metaphor for a uniting experience, whether it's a pandemic or 9-11 or whatever the thing is that brings people together regardless. And she finds herself after this turbulence holding hands with this woman unexpectedly. Yep. It's just a moment of...

all the walls coming down, right? For both of them. Yeah. A moment of acceptance, forgiveness, but also it really hit me like these seize, again, it's probably the place I am currently in my life, but these seize the day moments don't normally hit me as hard

- Hardest, this one. - Hard, yeah. - We got you. - I was like, no. - We're gonna have to talk off camera. - You're right, this is us. - We'll break this down at lunch, Chris. - Seize the day. - It's also, I don't know if you guys have had this, but I know I've had it. Something about a total stranger that you can just tell them,

you can tell them the deepest, but you can't tell like the people who are closest to you. You know what I'm saying? The plane, train, whatever it is, the situation, and you're just like, "Oh, I'm never gonna see you again. I'm gonna let it all out." - Yeah, the stakes don't feel as high. - "I've been in this dude, he's been cheating on me this whole time. I'm getting a divorce." And you're just like, "Thanks for helping me."

- You're not letting me say that to someone. I haven't said that out loud before. - Yeah. - That's what you got from hearing that woman's like proclamation on the plane. And obviously you see the wheels turning in Kate's head as well. Like, well, what do I need to do with my life? - Yes. To which she finally makes it to Jersey for Thanksgiving. She comes and just like- - Walked right in the door. - Doesn't know what she walked into as- - Announcement. - I'm getting gastric bypass, right?

She doesn't realize the moment she interrupted. I thought it was-- I thought this moment, this reveal was so well written and so well executed because I forgot the reveal was coming. I forgot the reveal was coming. Like, they set up your character in such a way that like, no, we do these things, that even when Beth says, you're going to drive how far to get these tapes? That I was like, yeah, no, but that's where-- of course Randall's going to do that. That's Randall. That's Randall.

- It's potentially William's last Thanksgiving and his son is gonna do whatever it takes to make it as comfortable as possible for him. - Yeah, right. - Yeah, I agree. I was like, there's nothing about this premise that bumps me in any way. - Right. And then you go and you find... - We find a letter, but I wanna go back. I find a letter, but we're gonna go back because the opening montage of "Randalls" to "You Can Call Me Out"

is one of my favorite things. Because I would ask first, I was like, can we-- can you guys play the song a couple times? Like, I know you're not going to play it

the day but I want to hear it just see if I can get the rhythm and I just loved annoying the hell out of everybody to wake them up cuz not cuz he's trying to know that he's like I'm so excited guys yeah t-minus nine minutes - eight minutes jumping on Kevin I

I was like, I really wish I were a fly on the wall for that. That's what I used to do to my brother on Christmas morning. Did you? I think it feels like Christmas. Yes. And it's Thanksgiving. It's Thanksgiving. It's Randall's Christmas. It is Thanksgiving, right?

He goes through all this, everybody's up and excited. He's down there, he's getting the bird ready. William comes in to help out, but he's a little tired. He's like, "William, you sit down, you relax. Everything's gonna be fun." And then his brother's there. And I love that, like I had to do a couple with the English accent and then I had somebody tell me, he's like, "Well, maybe not with the English accent." I was like, "No, you should use English." Like, trust me, like he's giving a bad English accent, which makes it even better. You know what I'm saying?

The reaction that I get out of Justin is he turns around and says, "Hey man, don't do none of your Randall stuff, please." He's like, "Are you scared?" - Oh, when they were doing his stuff? - "Are you worried about what's going to happen? You think I'm gonna take your woman?"

- Make me very happy. - Thanksgiving dad's a hot dad. - Thanksgiving dad is a hot dad. - That's right. - It makes me very excited. And it's the juxtaposition, which I've enjoyed so much in the writing, that he got to go so high. - Right. - And I think that's the thing about the show is that like, you're with us on the highs.

So when we pull that rug out. Man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we go on. Kev brings his girl. Olivia comes to the house. Shout out to Janet Montgomery. Because I just want to say real quick, like she plays someone who's not likable, but she plays it very well. And there's layers to it. You know what I'm saying? And I just like really appreciate how it goes. But we'll get to that with Kevin's thing. We go on a hike.

Everybody's hiking, we have different side conversations. William's taking another little break. This is when we find out he goes like, "How long is this hike?" He goes, "You know, it's 3.4 miles." What have you. He's so excited to have like his biological dad and his mom in the same room. And it's all just so exciting and exhilarating.

He finds out about these tapes. He's like, last Thanksgiving, all my sober friends get together because we're sort of not attached to our family. So we become a family of our own. We have a little jam session. And we record the tapes for posterity. And last year, I just listened to the tapes. And it was cool. And Randall's like, I'm going to go get these daggum tapes. We finish the hike, come home. He tells Beth. She's like, why are you going to leave? And he's like, it may be his last one.

He goes to Philly, he finds the tapes. He's very excited. Opens up this drawer, he sees a letter. And it was interesting because I was like, "Why are you snooping through this letter, Randall? Why are you looking at it? You know that letter's not for you." But he recognized the handwriting. - Yeah. - So when he comes back, and I'm gonna tell you guys something. This was a weird feeling as a person watching me.

as the actor and the character. And I was like, I was watching me saying he's not happy. Like, and I got very sort of like tense watching it, right? Because you could tell it was just darkness. And you're not used to Randall being a dark cloud. - Right. - You know what I'm saying? Like Randall is the dude who brings like buoyancy to things. And so like to see him sort of brooding, that's a Jack move. Jack will brood. - Yeah.

really brewed and so to see him just like not having any of it so sitting at the table mom starts off the yarn you know and she says the same thing every year which first came from Jack from back in the day and it's sweet and loving and she throws me the yarn I was like I don't want to

And then Beth's like, "Hey girls, maybe you should go upstairs." - Yeah. - What's even like a... - Things are about to be said. - It's about to go down. And like the way it gets broached, he just pulls out the picture and he says, "Why is there a picture of me in William's house that was sent from you?" Right? And Mandy, like it's all, Mandy Moore. And she's just like, "Oh."

I was going to tell you, sir. Let's back up real quick because Beth, as soon as she walks into the house, it's like, look, I don't know how things work in your marriage.

but in my marriage, we don't keep secrets. And you're like, I'm gonna tell him when it's the right time. I'm not gonna do that to him on Thanksgiving 'cause this is his day, right? And both arguments are valid, completely valid. Like I wouldn't necessarily have dropped it today, but Beth was like, all right now, 'cause she said she's gonna say it tonight possibly if you didn't, right? Turns out that got taken out of either one of them. - That's right, that's right.

I will never forget filming this scene. Yeah. It was such a complicated episode. You know, we were still on the precipice of introducing this version of the character present day. Yeah. And it's so wholly intimidating. I think this is the first, like, kind of like the first real time that we were all...

It was like a large group present day. John is there. I mean, it's like, it's a holiday. It was a big deal. And I just remember like watching that scene back now. I'm like, I could feel the same sort of, yes, like my heart just racing. Yeah. And not being able to catch my breath and feeling like I was sort of on edge because of it.

I mean, this is a deeper conversation that I feel like kind of bleeds into 109, but like the secret that this woman kept for 36 years, never told her husband before he passed, like no one knew but the two of them, right? Rebecca and William. And the idea that like she probably just

at some point started living her life thinking, this is a secret that I will hold myself. And he will hold, but when will our paths ever cross? Like, there's no way we're ever going to see each other again. So this is something I will die. I will go to my grave with. So the prospect of everlasting

of this boat being rocked in this way. Like, I can't imagine the edge that this woman was living on for these past several weeks. - 36. - Yeah. - All these weeks. - We all be like, oh, this is like, eventually like the dam will break. Like, I have to tell him this is just too weird. - Right, she'd probably let her guard down a considerable amount leading up to this. - Yes.

Okay, okay. We're all adults now. Like this is not, you probably don't even know if William couldn't still be alive. Oh, correct. Yes. Right. But yeah, it's hard as an actor to disagree with what a character is choosing to do. Sure, sure.

And I had a very hard time with this, truthfully. I just vehemently disagreed with how Rebecca handled this. Sure. I can understand. And that's how I was able to find my way into it. I wouldn't have made that same choice. Yeah. So having to separate myself from the character was always, and again, that kind of bleeds more into 109, was something that I had to contend with. I want to talk more about that, actually, as actors. Go. But-

I will say, a quick side note, that I'm with you at the beginning of 108. I disagreed. And by the end of 109- 109, you felt different. I felt different. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I was actually moved. Same, same, same. Oh, okay.

yeah like they're like the feet it was it was the fear that moved yeah yeah yeah and and we'll get it but as but as but as actors but as actors it's it's it's it's that is an interesting thing to talk about it's a little i'll talk about insular but like i gotta say i have spent 30 to 40 percent of my career playing like vile white supremacist

- Jeez. - Like characters. - Really? - Yeah, yeah. Six foot five, bearded, shaved head, you know, like vile. - We know what you'd be good at. - Come in, come in. - Wait, Sully. That's who we need.

But to like, to like put yourself, like my first big acting job was playing Milam, the murderer of Emmett Till. Oh, wow. Like on stage, like crazy things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so to get, to have to like put yourself into that character and to understand that the character doesn't disagree with himself. No. Character thinks that everything is, I mean, obviously there's conflict, internal conflict,

But it can be a really hard thing to do. But to accomplish what you accomplished knowing that there's that conflict, not only within the character, but within you as the actor, it's really something to watch. I think one lends itself to the other with regards to Mandy, Rebecca, in this particular moment because she was conflicted.

- Of course, yes, it wasn't cut and dry. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think those sort of things are sort of like symbiotic in that way. Because to what you're saying, Chris, and I think we all know this, I'm just saying it because it's an interesting conversation.

It is nice to like your character. It is not necessary to like your character or their choices. What is necessary is that you understand why they make the choices that they make. - And the show always did a very good job, especially in the next episode of illuminating why she would have made this particular choice. - Not putting the onus on you as a performer,

to explain this to the audience. - Or the audience just to accept it. - Sure, they gave you good reason. - Exactly, yeah. - Right, so that scene, it ends with him, with Randall sort of being like, "This is something that you've kept from me my whole life. If you had not kept this from me, maybe I could have had a chance to have a relationship that now is gonna be fleeting because my man has terminal cancer." Right? And he's like,

He said like, "I can't even look at you." - Yeah. - Yeah. - Sterling, I'll never forget when you went. - Yeah, oh.

Stop with the hand. That was the first time we saw that character do that. I was just like, it's burned in my conscious of like filming that scene. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, there was no choice. There was nowhere to go. It's like you were so ultimately in control of that moment and what happened from there. And I think as a parent, like,

It was just really sobering. Yeah. Thank you. And I don't like watching it. Like, I don't like watching Brandon be mad at Rebecca. I love my mama so much. But in that kind of pain, too, that's what was just like, ugh.

Just unquestionable. Just, yes, you want to, you're like, I, as a parent, like watching it, you're like, what can I do to rectify this situation? And there's just nothing. Not in that moment. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

Summer means two things in my household, the 2024 Summer Olympics and hydration. I'm very excited about the Olympics. Gang, I'm excited about the Olympics and it's hot outside right now. This summer is going to be a hot one. Hydration is going to be incredibly important. Did you know that there's going to be break dancing this summer? What?

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and handed them out and we soared to excellence. - Can I tell you guys in the first bouts of nausea in my first trimester, very hard to stay hydrated. Liquid IV was the only thing, I am being completely serious. It was hard to drink water and so I had to find a way to sort of like add something to my water that made me excited to drink it. - We're not gonna say that liquid IV saved your pregnancy.

But we're going to say that it helped a lot. It helped a lot. It kept me hydrated when I most clearly would have been dehydrated. Excellent. Yeah. So liquid IV has so many great sugar-free flavor options too. Hydration multiplier cotton candy is back for the summer. I did not know that. Plus you can always grab a packet of white peach, green grape, raspberry melon, lemon lime, one of my favorites. Just grab the liquid IV packet of your choice, tear it open, get more hydration than just drinking water alone.

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- And Miguel. - I wanna try to make- - And Miguel, this was the, I was like, wow, okay, so now we're laying the groundwork for just how deeply he disregards Miguel. - Yeah. - And what an afterthought he is in his life. - He said, like even like in their first conversation between Randall and Kevin is like, yeah, they're coming over, right?

He's like, what about Miguel? I was like, dude, he's not... He's our stepdad, not ISIS. If that's not a reference to the time. That's not 2016 for you. I don't know what is. Not ISIS. Yeah.

Kev is gonna be with his family for Thanksgiving. He's doing the play with Olivia. She says she goes to some bar, has whiskey or what have you. And he's like, "You should come hang out with my family." She's like, "I don't wanna be around the milk toast people that created you." He's like, "Oh." - Let me break it down. - He's like, "You wanna know about my family?" He's like, "I got a plus size twin who's still working on her habits. I got an adoptive daughter."

who just met his biological father, who's like died of cancer. He's like, "My mom is married to my dad's best friend." She's like, "You think we're boring?" - Yeah. - Like, "You have no idea." And she's like, you can see her be like, "This sounds interesting." - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? - Funny experiment. - So she decides to come home for Thanksgiving. And at this point, they knocked boots one time after they went to the,

wake, right? Yes, yes. So there's sort of like, you know, are they together? Are they not together? What have you. There is...

What is it? She wants to leave why at a certain point. Because it gets too intimate. Yeah, too real. It gets too real because Kevin regards her. He's listening and he brings her that. Right, that's right. The piece of pie. The piece of pie. And William's watching this. Because she never made it to the pie. Yeah, William's watching this. And so William goes sitting outside getting a little bit frustrated. But the pie moment is also when Miguel pops in. Miguel pops in. And it's like, hey, pardon me. Do you mind? Do you mind?

Excuse me. I know that you guys, it's so sweet. And I'm just wondering if this year, if I could wear the Pilgrim Rick hat. You want a red hat? And Kevin's response is a lot of things, but he literally says, no dice. Like, no.

Like the lack of consideration for Miguel's feelings. I was like, can you believe this guy? I was going to wear the hat? And that's another interesting shift because when Miguel asks, I'm still on the team of like, well, this is the Pearson tradition. I mean, Kevin probably didn't handle it the best, but he's probably right. Here's the thing too. At this point in time in the history of our show,

Miguel is persona non grata. Correct. Like by public perception. Yeah. They're like, they don't have enough information with this dude. If they could just flash forward to that Miguel episode in season six. And we'll have, we'll have him because I'm curious. I want to ask him what that was like.

Like if that's something that he felt or if not, we'll get to that later. - I mean, you know John. - I do know John. - If anybody like was able to brush that off, it was him, but yes. - We'll ask. - What we gonna do? - So this fantastic conversation between William and Olivia happens outside and she asks the actory of actoryist questions.

Completely inappropriate. So inappropriate. But as an actor, I kind of be like,

if I had like a more of a relationship with the person, I could have seen myself asking this question, but I don't think I would have just been like. But it's also goes back to what you mean about like they have no relationship. Yeah. And, and, and her, her brokenness for all of its detriments actually is, I, nobody asks dying people this question because they don't want to know. Sure. But it's actually, it's, it's, it's surprising. It, it inappropriate socially, but also like,

-very considerate. - Yeah. -To be like, "How does it feel?" - Yeah. "How are you feeling?" Like, "I know you're sick and I know--" - Sure. - "How does it feel to be dying?"

Yeah, Olivia to William, how does it feel to be dying? And he responds, it feels like all these beautiful pieces of life are flying all around me and I'm trying to catch them. The pieces are moving faster now and I can't catch them all. I can feel them slipping through my fingertips. I know it feels like you have all the time in the world, but you don't. So stop playing it so cool. Catch the moments of your life.

Catch them while you're young and quick because sooner than you know it, you'll be old and slow and there will be no more of them to catch. And when a nice boy who adores you offers you pie, say thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You really get the sense that he had a profound understanding of what he was saying. Yeah. I thought that too. And because he's not with us anymore, the beautiful human being that he is, it's just like, wow. I thought that when...

We were watching the hike part of the episode, because I very viscerally remember it being a physically taxing exercise. Physically taxing for the human, Ron, because he was suffering. And it was really hard for him to breathe. And I remember like...

him sitting was scripted, but also because he genuinely needed to do that. - Necessary, yeah. - It really brought home knowing what was actually happening in real time in those moments while we were shooting this show and this season.

You're right that Ron just had this intrinsic connection to what his character was going through and it makes it all the more poignant. It does indeed. But that is such a beautiful sentiment and I guess just like continuing in the fashion of what the show has sort of already laid the groundwork for of these just like

these pullable quotes of like, wow, this is instructions on how to live. - Yeah. Seize that Mickey Ficky moment, man. Like hold on to it. And so it inspires, like when they go and the kiss that comes after it, off of it, I was like, that's a kiss. I was like, okay, we lip locked up in this joint. I was like, yeah, I felt that. Which is so interesting because it's like,

When we come to the next episode, it's almost like she exposed herself so much that she just went all the way back in the opposite direction. - Yeah. - Right? I was like, that was too much. I showed too much, right? Kev, then he's got the kiss.

Next thing we know, he's got the Pilgrim Rick hat on. He's going to come perform for his sisters. And I love it. Like a true actor, he's like, I'm not going to overplay it. You know, he's like, Dad may have done it this way. Like, hey, guys, Pilgrim Rick. He's like, less is more sort of thing. And then he checks and sees Miguel in the background. And he's like, you know what, man? I just had one of the best kisses of my life. This is what's happening in the back of his head. He's like...

I don't need this hat. I feel a little generous. I can let you wear this hat for a second. And Miguel is so touched. The look on his face got me. This was the moment in this episode where I was like... He was so touched. Yeah. It was an amazing little...

It's just small moments like that where a performer like John takes this thing and you see an entire world happen in moments. Absolutely. What I'm left with this Thanksgiving episode is like,

We build traditions. We see how important traditions are to this family. We see what they're born out of. Like, you know, we see Jack sort of taking the lemon and making the lemonade and turning it into something beautiful. And then it comes full circle because now the thing that is beautiful, that has been upheld by his son to, like, make sure that it continues to be so, has now once again been somewhat tainted by the fact that

He feels betrayed, right? Like there is something, a secret that has been kept from him his entire life from the person that he probably trusts the most. - Than anybody.

- And we're left with that. - A reckoning is coming. - A reckoning is coming. We still don't know what's happening with Toby over here. - Yeah, Chris Sullivan sitting in his apartment wondering. - Chit-talling his phone. - He's like calling his agent, like, "Do I need to start auditioning for things here?" - Texting the cast, "That was a great episode, you guys." - "Have we gotten 109 yet?" - "Has anyone seen 110 or anything?" - "Little did you know." - "There's more to come. There's more to come."

The first, like the tension between these two, 'cause I think Beth has had to carry this tension of knowing this secret now. And now that it's out, like what does that mean in terms of that relationship? I'm really wishing Kev the best. Things look like they're gonna go good with Olivia or what have you.

And then we're wondering about sister and whether or not she's going to take on this surgery or not. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's 108. That was 108. Tell them about how they can reach out to us. Listen, we still want to hear from you. Yes! We want to talk to you guys. We want to hear all of your stories and the way that you've connected with the show. So we have an emotional support hotline. Mandy, what's that phone number? That phone number is 412-501-3028. Yeah, yeah.

And Sterling, please tell me. We also have an email that people can send their stories. We do have an email. We'd love to hear your stories. Please hit us up at thatwasspod at gmail.com. Were you about to say AOL? I almost said it. Wow. Thatwasspod at gmail.com. Send us your emails with all of your stories, the way you connected with the show. We want to hear from everyone. We'd love to connect with you.

Speaking of connection, should we connect with some fans? - Yeah. - Let's connect with some fans. Always a pleasure, Amanda Lee Moore. - Likewise. - Christopher Sullivan. Sterling K. Brown. All of our producers who remain unseen but so important. We appreciate and love you all, as do we, our fans. For this episode's fan segment, we asked our parent listeners out there to tell us about a time that they were maybe in over their heads.

And we covered a lot of that, I believe, in today's episode. Sure did. Yeah. Rebecca, especially, I think, was in over her head. It was a lot. We're doing a lot. A lot going on. A lot going on. You had three kids at one time. Yeah. Yeah, she's trying to make everything perfect for Thanksgiving. She's trying to get...

her kids to her parents' house, make it perfect for them, blah, blah, trying to do everything for everyone. The kids are fighting. Cranberry sauce ends up on the floor. I mean, it's a hot mess. And it's too long of a drive. First of all, let's talk about this. Six hours. Six hours. Makes no sense. Where do they live? Where do they live?

They live in Bethel Park. They live in Bethel Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Outside of Pittsburgh. Yep. At the end of the day, all of these calamitous, you know, tire blowing out, long hike. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ending up in Pilgrim Rick's Hotel. Creates beautiful memories and lifelong traditions. That's true. So for this episode's fan segment, we asked our parent listeners to tell us about a time that they realized that

They were maybe in over their head and to share any words of wisdom for all of us. So here is what some of them shared. Okay, I'm good. I need all of this. Start it off. Start it off, Sal. This is from Colin all the way from Belfast in Northern Ireland. My wife went out for the afternoon for the first time since our son was born. And I was at home alone with a newborn and a two and a half year old.

Hmm.

Because you get through. It passes and peace and calm returns. This too shall pass, bro. That's true. The good and the bad. The good and the bad. Look, I don't think you're fully initiated into parenthood until you've had some other part of...

fluid from your child land on your body. - Yeah. - Right? - Absolutely. - Be it vomit, be it poop, be it pee. - Urine. - Yeah. - I can remember holding the kid. Ryan went into the store to go grocery shopping. Me and Andrew were hanging out and I was like, oh, his diaper got full. There were no extra diapers. So I was just like, all right, we'll just wait till we get home. And then like he went again and then it started to come down. And I was like, just sitting there and it's on there. And I was like, this will never happen. Before you have kids, like this will never happen. I'm not gonna let anybody just,

deuce on me and then all of a sudden yeah yeah you got deuce yeah last week i had throw up on me on two separate occasions the same day the same day that's how it goes let's see what brittany has to say in terms of her advice brittany says and i like this it's okay to not be okay take a step back take a break walk away you can't parent effectively

If you're not in the right headspace. Come on now, Brittany. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? I feel like I remember that on a daily basis. You know? Right. Because it is very easy to be reactionary as a parent instead of responsive. A response you get to choose. A reaction is involuntary. Take that breath, everybody. Yeah. Keep moving. Rachel and I call it the tap out.

Yeah. I literally, I look at her and go, I'm tapping out. And she slides in, takes over whatever situation. And I'll be back in 20. It's nice when there's two in the house. So Desi says, I decided to let my one-year-old and five-month-old and my two-year-old and nine-month-old help make breakfast. Oh my goodness. Wasn't long before pancake mix was in their hair, on their faces, all over the floor. I've learned to step back and embrace the chaos. Wow.

Those hysterical laughs live on forever in my heart. That is some dynamite perspective. That is the Randall in me, by the way, like love's order. Yeah. Same. I don't know if I can have little kids running around in my kitchen, but God bless you. We should clear. That's just two kids, right? Three kids. It's a one year and five month old. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. No, it's just two kids. No, it's just two kids. It's just two kids. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

- Because I don't think that's genuinely possible to have a one year old, a five month old. - I don't understand how this is happening. - But this is, she's not counting by months, right? It's important to count by months. - I am specific when it comes to the age of my children too, but let me rephrase that. - She has a 17 month old. - So let me read this again. So decided to let my one year and five month old and my two year and nine month old help make breakfast.

We thought there was four. We thought there was little kids crawling around just doing this. The way it's written, one year, I'm five months old, and my two-year-old. No, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Not at all. It's all good. Oh, wow, wow, wow. Yeah, sometimes you just have to lean in. These hysterical laughs will live on forever, too, and my mistake. Sometimes you got to lean into the mess. Yes, ma'am. And just let it be the mess. Yes, sir. I appreciate that. Who's next? All right, Ashley wrote,

All of the newborn phase was something that got her in over her head. It's okay to not love it. It gets better. I'm a pediatric physician assistant

and work with new moms every day. It helps to know you're not alone and your feelings are valid. - That is so incredibly important. - I mean, it is. - It's a highlight. - It is. I think, I mean, especially for moms and the idea that like you're supposed to be instantaneously in love, head over heels completely, and that's the only thing that you're like allowed to feel. - And know exactly what to do. - Exactly. It's the only space you're allowed. - Right, like you're allowed that

and everything else, right? Because it is, I always try to break this down because people sort of like, they'd like to talk about, so when are you gonna have a kid and are you excited and dah, dah, dah, welcome to the club. And it's a great club. It's an awesome club. It's the hard club. - As soon as you join, there are no other members. - The hard club. - It's only you. - As soon as you join the club, everyone disappears. - Everybody's gone. - You're like, I used to have friends. I used to have friends.

And now I'm alone in this house. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's real. So like, I appreciate that sentiment very, very much. Thank you, Ashley. Jennifer, this is what she has to say. "As a parent, I realized I was in over my head when I went through a divorce and was suddenly on my own as a mom of two boys."

My dad had recently been diagnosed with dementia and my mom was overwhelmed as his primary caregiver, so I suddenly couldn't lean on them either. And they suddenly needed me too. It was a whole new reality, completely foreign that I had to navigate and it was overwhelming. I don't know about words of wisdom, but I would say I navigated through it four years later by just staying the course and taking it day by day, sometimes moment by moment.

one task at a time, one foot in front of the other. Like that saying about taking the first step even if you can't see the whole staircase. That is an MLK quote that she's saying, "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase." Listen, that's a bar. - Yeah. - When you think about the totality of things that need to be accomplished, sometimes in a given day, like sometimes I feel like when I try to look at the whole elephant,

I'm like, I can't put that in my mouth. - Yeah. - Right? You gotta take it piece by piece. You gotta take it moment by moment and trust that the next moment will be there. And then when you get to that moment, you'll know what to do. - Yeah. - 'Cause otherwise, life, period. That shit can- - No matter the circumstances. Yeah, 'cause everyone's gonna have different circumstances. - Yes. - Certainly, yes. That is incredible advice. - Yeah. - Thank you, Jenn. - Beth, a twin mum from the UK says, "When the sonographer said,

There are two in there. Not quite a big three, but still a shock. Words of wisdom. Repeat the mantra. It's just a phase each time a new hurdle appears. That is the truth. The good, the bad, everything in between. Good phases. Yeah. Totally. It's like you can't sort of get any – nothing is set in stone. You can't get used to any one thing because before you know it, it's going to change. Everyone's sleeping fantastically and then –

Someone's going through a sleep regression or potty training or something. Parenting seems to be the ultimate Buddhist exercise in non-attachment. Yeah. And trying to stay present. Yeah. Yeah. And trying to keep hummus off your shirt. And don't forget the deuce, Jack. Don't forget the deuce. I'm just saying. It's real. This is Sterling Brown reminding you, don't forget the deuce.

- Thank you guys for your advice, for sharing moments of being overwhelmed and ways of making it through it. Deeply appreciate your perspective. - It's helpful to everyone, including us. - Including us. - Yes. - Yeah. Certain lessons you can learn over and over again. - And also if you have a friend with a new child, reach out. They long to hear from you. - Come on, man. - Don't forget about them. - Yes. - They need you. - All right. That's it for this fan segment. Appreciate you guys.

That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.