Homeward Bound | "Clooney" (S2E12)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing season two, episode 12, titled Clooney. Kate goes wedding dress shopping with Madison. Kevin embraces sobriety and moves in with Rebecca. Randall digs into William's past. The Pearsons go to the mall.

Hello, friends. What's going on, people? Hi. How we doing today? I'm having a wonderful morning. I'm glad to hear it. Oh, man. What's happened so far? Can you rub off on me a little bit, please? Well, let me tell you, like, last night in the evenings, Bear likes to rock out before bed. Like, wait. Hey, Dad, can we rock out? What does it look like? It looks like him up on the couch holding a ukulele and me playing whatever rock song he's never heard before. Oh.

So I give him like a new rock song. And last night I played him Smells Like Teen Spirit for the first time. Okay. And he lost his efferlover. Did he really? He loved it. Loved it. Loved it. And so this morning on the ride in, I re-listened to Nevermind, like front to back. Oh, cool. And I was like on the 10 freeway. Wow.

Transformed back in time. 16 years old. Yeah, yeah. Like, so excited to see you guys. That's awesome. I'm amped up. He likes to rock out. Apparently. That's amazing. Apparently. And Aoife just sits there and head bangs. Yeah.

Cool, kids. Well, that is a good morning. My morning's been good. My wife's got an audition today. It's always a good thing. When prospects are on the horizon. I told her that Chris said she should do the podcast sometime. And she's like, well, if you guys are dragging the bottom of the barrel and you need somebody, of course. I was like, you're not the bottom of the barrel, Bert.

Never. And then the brainstorm came, if we have an episode that focuses on couples, which our show always focuses on couples, then maybe we all bring our spouses. That's fun. That could be a cool idea. And can do a little something like that. I think she should sit in on, not just guest on the show, but help us narrate an episode so that we can cross promote your other podcast too. I appreciate that.

But let's also get her on the phone because if she remembers, she was invited to like the first round of recordings. She was. She was like, I can't. She was busy. I'm busy. Boom, boom. And then I think she was invited to the second round of recordings. And she's like, I don't feel like it. So Ryan, bottom of the barrel. Hardly. My ass. Not even close. Not even close. First thought. Mandy, you look lovely in red. Thank you. By the way. Mandy Moore just had a baby, folks.

Can't tell I can't see like I don't know how you do it. Oh my goodness. It's just you got the snapback Okay strategically place Anyways come see us on YouTube. Yeah So this is it's entitled Clooney my first question I have we all know because we've read the scripts and etc Do you think the audience remembered?

Who Clooney was when they first see the cat running across the screen? You don't know they're like, why are we watching the cat? Can I also say I am an animal lover? Yes, anytime there's an animal like on a television show or in films I'm petrified like where is this going? Okay, and I've heard there is a website that

that like chronicles every movie or TV show that has like an animal featured in it. Just to make sure you can like check and say like, no, no, all clear. You know it's going to be fine. Yeah, yeah. All clear. It's not like a Bambi situation. Like you're not going to be watching Old Yeller and something's going to be going down. Okay, I got you. Because I can't handle that. So seeing this guy, of course, the whole time he's like running across the street, dodging him. I know, I was like, I was like,

This is NBC. There's no way like something's going to happen to this cat. Right. Yeah. And we're all sitting there, I don't remember what happens to this cat.

- The one little ear? - Do you think the one little ear was like glued down or is that the way that cat came? - I think that cat was like that. I don't think you're allowed to glue animal ears. - Surely you could. - No, I don't think so. - I don't think it's what they call humane. - You can't put makeup on an animal? - Did he have some stretch and stipple on his ears? - Stretch and stipple on the ear? - To like glue it down?

He's in there getting it removed, hot towel at the end of the day. Hopefully folks will let us know in the comments because we all know from the beginning that it is William's cat. Yes. But I'm curious to the audience is like, who's this cat? Yeah. Okay.

The episode after the cat, we see the little cat montage, et cetera. We see Jack doing some woodworking, right? He's building an entertainment center. Correct. Very excited, wants to have it ready to go before the Super Bowl. Yeah. And then Kate enters and she wants to go to the Winter Formal. Yes. And asks her mom if they can go to the mall, which is like...

About knocks Rebecca over. We're going dress shopping. Did you see that? Did you hear that? She wants to like spend time with me. She wants to hang out with me. In public. Scooby snacks. Okay. And then everyone wants to go to the mall. Jack goes to, Kevin's laid up in his cast having a pity party, but Jack takes everybody to the mall. Randall says, I want to go to the mall. And I'm like, why does Randall want to go to the mall? Like, okay, cool. And then Kevin says, God, he's weird. Because he just sort of like pops up.

like pops out he's like he's like I want to go it was a perfect weird delivery yeah I want to go to the mall I love him so much he's so great he's great

Okay, so then we go to the present and Randall is helping Annie with this diorama. He's very excited. He gets all into it, etc. Do you guys remember dioramas? Did you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was an active part of the California curriculum. I have two kids in California school. Dioramas top off in the Browns. They're still a thing. We did missions. California missions. Oh, cool. Wait, what do you mean when you say a mission? Like a church? I mean Catholic missions. Yeah.

You know, there, you know, there are, there are famous missions all up and down California that are from the Spanish.

Viejo. Viejo. That's one I know. Viejo. I mean, I can't even remember which one I did. But yeah, it was a lot of macaroni, a lot of lasagna noodles for those Spanish roofs. Oh, cute. Very, very innovative. But I also noticed that Randall was the one sitting in front of the diorama, putting it together. He's doing the whole thing. Doing the whole thing. And my mom was kind of the same way.

- He's doing the whole thing. - She just did it all, did all the hard work. - Kind of. - This is an unemployed dude who's like pouring himself into whatever's in front of him at that moment. 'Cause I ain't got nothing else to do. - That's right. - Yeah. - Is this the first time that we, is this the first time or do we hear any hints of Beth's occupation before episode 212? - Oh, I think we have. - Have we? - Remember when she like went back to work and- - Yes. - I just, I feel- - She went back, do we,

The job itself though, did they say anything right? - Was sort of nebulous, much like Toby. Until one day we were like, oh, he works in IT. - Toby's in IT. Beth is in city design, public. - Yeah, public. - Public works. - Public works, et cetera, right? She just lost the lot to what did they? - A Costco. - A Costco. - To a Costco. - And then Annie's like, hmm, people probably want a Costco more than they want a- - That was funny because then Randall's like, hey, don't talk, your mama's upset. - Yeah, yeah.

Which is a brown move. Anytime Andrew says something to his mom that's just a little more sass than what it needs to be, you got to read the room, big dog. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes like, hey man, don't say it. You making life hard for me when you make her mad. Let's take it back to one. Let's try this again. Bring it down again. Yeah.

So he says he's sorry that it's going on. He has a job interview later on that day, but he is so nonplussed about the whole thing. It's a job interview that anybody could do and doesn't get his- Beth would really like him to be happier about it. You know what I'm saying? More into it. She would like him out of the house doing something productive because Randall's not the dude that can just kind of be there and be cool. No.

he's going to be in everybody's stuff, right? So there you go. Not doing anything for his juices. We'll go to Kate@OA.

And she's talking about the wedding dress, right? And sort of kind of brings some things up. My man wants the big wedding, so that means you got to have the big dress. And that's sort of bringing a few things up for me. But, you know, this is what he wants, so we're going to make it happen. Madison makes a joke. I think my wrists are getting fat. She asks me that, and they're like, okay, that breaks the tension. Dan?

So we always, our show does this thing where you kind of delve into something and it feels a certain way. And there's always sort of like a slight tension release. And it's not...

it's not for like a pure laugh per se, but it's for like, so it doesn't become too heavy too soon. - Sure. - Sure. - I feel like he does a good job of finding the balance of it where it doesn't disrespect what happened immediately prior. - Right. - But it's also how we kind of as human beings is like, we can't live that heavy all the time. - Yeah. - Right. - Like even when folks ask us about the show, what is it like doing the show? Was it just sad all the time? I was like, we cracked up.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Constantly. But I also think you kind of had to crack up constantly because the flip can be true too. You can go to a comedy set and when they're not like cracking yucks, dead silent. - People get real serious about comedy. - Very. And it's almost like they think that that's what it would be like on our set and our set is completely the opposite of it. - Yeah, it's true. - Yeah, drama seems to need that flow. You need to have that lightness

So that you can flow into these be present in these moments. Yeah, and I'm and I in my experience what you're talking about like comedy a lot less fun Yeah, because it's a lot more mathematic it is there are rhythms there are things well I found it when I was in we were in New York a couple summers ago doing a comedy Yeah, I was I was doing a play it was a comedy and I thought oh this is gonna be great and I forgot like how stressful a comedy sure is because drama is

just works. Sure. You just put it up and people look at it and go, this is dramatic. Hopefully I'm feeling emotions with you. But if comedy starts failing, if everybody on stage isn't in rhythm... Like a sinking ship. Yeah, if a joke gets missed, if the audience doesn't quite hear the punchline of a joke, then everyone's out of sync. It's like double dutch. Absolutely. It takes you time to get back into it. And it's terrifying. It is. It's terrifying. So yeah, our set...

was always very light. - Yeah. - And that definitely came from the top down too. - I would say so. - But also it's like, it is a group of naturally funny humans. Like the two of you, John Huertes, Justin, like there is just a, Chrissy, it's like, there's a lot of like, just your instinct is always to be funny and to be light and that helps, I think. - Are you not funny? - No, I'm definitely the straight man.

I'm not the funny person in the group, but man, I loved coming to work with you guys because I was like, oh, I'm not going to be able to keep it together. I just get to laugh at my friends all day. Were any of the kids particularly jokesters? Were they like...

Eris is very, very funny. Like Eris would have us all in stitches. Like literally, she has such a big personality and whatnot. She's always trying to crack up lyric and crack up. And actually Faith, who plays Annie, is also really funny. They started giving her like those one-liners at the end of like Pearson scenes and she would...

every single one of them, right? So those guys were really, really funny. What about your kid? The littles were always with their parents, so it's not like there was a ton of... You weren't standing at Crafty? Yeah, exactly, getting a cup of coffee with them. Tell me a joke, kid. But Niles and Hannah and Logan, they all had their own language with each other, and they were constantly... I mean, Niles is always laughing. He's always like...

in a great mood and I felt like the three of them had their own language. - And like perfect mom and dad. - We weren't always like led into. - They were doing their thing. - Perfect mom and dad fashion. Like, what are you guys laughing about? - Yeah, totally. - What's the joke? I wanna laugh. - Yeah. - Do I laugh? - Yeah, Eris made me laugh.

- All the time. - Oh, I love that. - All the time. She would do this thing in scenes sometimes, like right before the scene would start, she'd go, "Eyo!" And then I remember a couple of times it made it into the scenes where folks would just go, "Eyo!" So dumb. I loved it. - No, it's the best. - It's the best. It's the best. - More "That Was Us" after this short break.

I remember one year we all went down south, I think we were in Atlanta, and we found this beautiful home and big family. We had about 16 of us all in this house and it had four stories and we were able to split it amongst ourselves and the family got a chance to be together. Little cousins playing with each other all under the same roof, ping pong table, foosball table, pool table. It was absolutely perfect.

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Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. Then we go to Kev and Barbara, and she's talking about the need for structure in his life. And I don't know if going back to Hollywood is necessarily like the right thing for you at this moment. Kev says, "I got an idea. Like I'm actually, my mom and I had this great conversation. I'm thinking I'm going to go and stay with her." Right? Which I think is,

Like after going through everything that we just went through, like, do we have anything with each other, et cetera? He's like, I want to spend some time with my mom. Yeah. Right. He goes and Miguel's there and they're all talking to each other. And like, you know, maybe we'll go grocery shopping. Grocery shopping. And Miguel's like, you know, I'll come along too. Right. And you see Kev just like, hey, man.

I'm trying to spend time with my mama. Here you are up in the spot." Miguel's like, "Yeah, I'll come along too." So anyway, we go to the dress shopping with Kate and Madison. I'm gonna take you dress shopping. She's very excited. It's a really sweet offer too. Like after listening to her thing in OA, et cetera.

I'm jumping all around. Like, should I continue with one of these thingamajiggas? Why don't we go to the mall in the past? Okay, let's go to the mall in the past. I like that. Yeah. Where do you want to start with the mall? What do we have? We have three different situations. Yes, we have Kate with her mom at the clothing store looking at dresses for the winter formal. Yes. We have Randall...

Who we've realized is pursuing a lady. Yes, we do. He stutter stops on a... We see a redhead. Yep. At like a little boutique. Like Randall's Charlie Brown. Yes. And then we have...

Kevin is with Jack. Correct. Buying a suit. They're both looking at suits. Correct. Because they both need suits. All right, so let's do the ladies. Rebecca and Kate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're in this clothing store. Kate finds this dress that she likes. She takes a couple of different sizes in and kind of tells her mom, like, you never know what one's going to fit. And Rebecca's like, absolutely. Yeah. She goes into the dressing room and...

Rebecca's just, you know, futzing around the store, like very excited. Like I'm shopping with my daughter. I was like, oh, what a dork. I love the enthusiasm that you bring to it is so genuine. I'm just waiting for my daughter. I'm just waiting. We're shopping. Yeah.

Me. Me and my daughter. Would you believe it? Yeah. And Mandy. That was funny. It was. Oh, gosh. Rebecca. She sometimes has a sense of humor. She doesn't realize. But the overarching theme of this interaction, which if we want to stick with this one for a second, was really interesting to me because it is a...

not often discussed angle on this situation. We've obviously already talked about Kate's insecurity around clothing, clothing size, trying on clothes, all these things. But what we come to find out through this whole miniature storyline as it relates to the present day is that she is a little self-sabotaging on this trip, which I can relate to. She has a dress that fits. Yeah.

But it's not good enough. She needs to try the next dress down. Yeah, which doesn't fit. Which doesn't fit. And then go, see? Yeah. See? I have no value. I have no value. And it's an interesting, as the quote unquote family of addicts conversation that was started in the previous episode, it's an interesting thing.

That alcohol is not the problem. Food is not the problem. These are solutions. Sure. These are...

solutions for people. I see what you're saying, yeah. They're like, this makes me feel better. Right. It doesn't work. This will fix me. It's dysfunctional. Yeah. But it's the solution. Sure. The real problem underneath all of these things is an addiction or an attachment to shame. Yeah. And to feeling shame. Yeah. And I mean, Kate says as much to Madison when they're dress shopping. She's like, you know, I got skinny. Yeah. Right before my dad died. Yeah. And I, you know,

Once I lost the weight, I realized I didn't know who I was without the weight. Right. You know? And she was like, and I liked that voice. I liked being mad at myself. People get it. People get so, they tie their personality around this thing. Yeah. And then they can't, they get so terrified that if they lose this thing. Who are they? Who am I? Yeah. I've heard comedians talk about it. Will I be funny without alcohol? Right. Yeah.

I've heard actors talk about it. Will I be effective without my trauma? Yeah. Yeah. What happens if I'm musicians? Yeah. What if I'm happy? Yeah. What am I going to write a song about? Exactly. And so they get so attached to destroying their life. Yes. Yeah. Like drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever the thing is to create chaos so that I can balance

Be an artist. Yeah. Or, yeah, it's a dysfunctional attachment to self. And it comes from a core belief of what you were saying, lack of value. Yeah. Low self-esteem.

If I truly believe that I am worthless, then it makes it easier to believe that if I behave in a worthless fashion. Yep. Correct. Yeah. And so she looks beautiful in this dress. Yeah, she does. She hit, I mean, ready to go to the ball. Yeah. And she decides, but what if I try on a size five? Yeah. And now she can wallow. There you go. Yeah.

-leaves the-- - Yeah, 'cause she likes-- That's where she feels most comfortable. With that voice sort of egging her on like, "Nope, not good enough." That's right. And it's so interesting that these inner critics, these voices, they don't come from--

always, don't come from Jack, don't really come from you. Yeah, they just come from within. They come from those little moments at the pool where the girls draw a picture and she gets-- And a little eight-year-old gets this image of a monster in her head and attaches it to who she is and then runs with it for 30 years. -Carries it with her. -And we all-- I mean, I do it.

We all do. A lot of people do it. We all do to certain degrees and different ways. Absolutely. It's a hard thing to get out from underneath. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a good summation of their trip. I don't know how it gets... I don't remember how it gets resolved. Well, I think it just sort of like it's there as a device to sort of show what's happening present day with Madison and that she's sort of like...

Like, she's trying to relate to Madison because she's called over to Madison's house later. Right. Madison has eaten a ton of macaroons and sweet stuff when they were wedding dress shopping. Yeah. And she goes home to purge. She excuses herself to the bathroom there. Yes, and Kate knows...

what she's up to. And then later that night, she calls Kate and says that she passed out. She hit her head. Can she come and kind of be with her? And I think this is the conversation that follows where Kate admits that, you know, she knows what she's going through. Like I got to a point where I thought, you know, if I get to a certain weight, if my body looks a certain way, then I'm finally going to be happy. And once she got there, she realized that voice

She needed that voice. She was so comfortable with the voice that was sort of screaming at her. Yeah. It's another great example of...

Essentially empathy in photo negative. Like it's the same thing that happened, what you talked about in the last episode with Jack and Randall about Randall talking about feeling unbalanced and Jack finding a way to not just sympathize, but empathize with him, even though it's like, all right, well...

your experience as a young black man and my experience as a Vietnam veteran shouldn't be in your mind, but you find a way to connect and empathize. It's the same thing with the way Kate gets chaotic versus the way Madison gets chaotic. Correct.

But they can empathize, or at least maybe this is the first time that Kate really has a real understanding of the dysfunction that Madison is going through. I think because up until this point, anytime Madison says something, to the most part, you're like... It was an eye roll. Yeah. Why are you here? What is it? You don't have the same problems as us. And then there's this moment of empathy, and then there's this beautiful...

And also comedic sort of thing that sort of like allows us to exhale a little bit, Madison saying, "I finally have a best friend." I wrote that down too. And Kate was like, "I guess, I guess is that what we are now?" Is that what this is? Yeah.

Another little peek at like a little dysfunction. Also, I love that she was like, should we have a podcast? Really good. Yeah. And Kate's like, no. Like, yeah, that was hilarious. Who would start one of those? Yeah. Bad idea. Yeah.

Anyways, we're being heckled from the past. Yeah, totally. I thought that. Let's, I would, Randall's sort of storyline, because I think it's quick to sum up. Yeah. Because it's small, but then there'll be dividends later on in this season.

because you see him at the beginning of the episode, young Randall, sort of like doing something with a magic eight ball. Yeah. It's like opening it up. I was like, man, you're a real nerd. You're cracking open eight balls and changing them. Um...

It's so sweet. Excited to go to the mall. He sees little head red girl, Allison. Allison, yes. Allison. And he leaves, et cetera, because he doesn't have the nerve. Wasn't the right moment. Wasn't the right moment. And I'm wondering, I think there was something that happened. He goes to the food court with Miguel, Jack, and Kevin. And Miguel, and this will intersect, Miguel winds up talking to the fellas like, you never told him about Big Three Houses?

And he's like, no. He's like, your dad was going to start his own construction company, building homes, et cetera. And you see Kev kind of looking at him like, oh, I wonder why he didn't do it. And then Jack says something to him like, you know, you own your choices. You stick to them and you see them through. Right? And you see Randall for a second be like, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go ahead and do this thing. Yeah. And so then later in the episode, he goes back up to...

I don't even know if this redhead chick knows who he is. Like, I'm wondering like whether, I'm sure they, something. - They know each other from school. - They know each other from school. And he asks if she would go out with him and she's like, "Uh." And he's like, "Well, you know what? Maybe you should consult the eight ball before you get a chance." And what does the eight ball say?

Try not to think too hard about it or something like... Yeah, it has her name on there. It does have her name on it. Oh, it did? Yeah. Yeah, it had her name on it. I didn't catch that. So she smiled and I was like, he got a little charm, a little smile. And so ultimately she does wind up going out with him. But that was sweet to see what happens. And it's also because...

There will be personal resonance when we get to later on in this storyline. Yes. With like how it all ultimately winds up playing out. But that's the summation of that. Well, I love that, you know, Kevin and Jack are suit shopping and they run into Miguel and Miguel is sad because Shelly's just gotten engaged and Kevin's wallowing in his own, his life has fallen apart. And Jack goes to give like a pep talk and he's like, stop, stop.

You always do that. Let us be sad. Like, I'm bummed out. Miguel's bummed out. And then when they get to the food court, you know, Kevin is sort of, I think he's sort of like, I mean, have you not ever lost something that you really wanted? And that's how the big three homes comes up. And Miguel's like, he has. Did you not tell them about, you know, when you were going to start this company? So that's sort of the...

the connective tissue there. Randall shows up and Jack thinks it's going to be a ray of sunshine, but he's also wallowing. Yeah. Yeah, everybody is. It's really good. You know, that aspect of Jack is something that I have to check within myself. The desire to not have people

feel down. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You feel responsibility. Yeah. For booing people. Yes. But also recognize that there's a time and a place for all things. It's okay to let people feel what they're feeling. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Hell yeah. And I think for the longest time it would make me uncomfortable. Like, hey, come on.

"Hello, my baby. Hello, my darling." You know, just trying to lift everybody up. But like, there's a time and a place. And I think it's become clear for me over time. But like, as that was happening, and as Kevin said that to his dad,

He's like, hey man, why are you, the dude just lost his wife. I just lost my whole like future and everything. Like, can we just have a moment? Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, Ryan tell me that sometime. Yeah. She most definitely does. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just clacking that for myself. Yeah. I'm the same. Yeah. Well, this storyline eventually wraps up with Jack going home and talking to Rebecca about like, maybe we should do this.

You know, maybe I should start big three homes again. Like maybe this is the time the kids are getting ready to go off to school. Rebecca's into it. Rebecca's into the idea. So supportive. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, it's scary. Let's do it. That aspect of that relationship is so...

When you feel supported by your partner, even when like, it seems like it's not the prudent thing to do, but like your partner has your back, what an incredible feeling that is. - How safe. - You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, everybody else may think I'm nuts, but my girl, my dude, like they think I'm okay?

I can do this. Let's take a shot. You know what I'm saying? Jack and Rebecca, man, they're my parents. Yeah, they're a good team. But they also allude to something in this episode. There is the reminder in the beginning and then at the end of like, remind me to get batteries, right? Right. And then the episode sort of ends on a similar note. And there's a close-up of the fire alarm. Yeah, of the smoke detector. Of the smoke detector. Which will factor in...

Yes. Should we talk about Randall? Present day and present Randall. Yes. Let's do present Randall. So he has to go pick up a box from Williams building, right? As of keepsakes or what have you, he says he'll pick it up and then he'll go to his job interview. So he goes there, he gets the box and,

There's a lovely moment of him just being in the building and just sort of like William walks right past. Yeah, I love that. It's like his father's spirit is still sort of permeating the edifice, if you will.

And he gets the box. He goes out to his car. He's got sweaters and there's radio and all sorts of things. And then he finds a journal and like a poem, a poem about this lady and how like, you know, he's sort of transfixed with this lady and everything. And then there's some sketches of who this is or whatnot. And he's like,

I've got to find out who this is. Who is this woman, right? Yeah. So he goes back into the building and he starts sort of asking people. Well, first he goes to visit Beth. Does he visit Beth first? At work, right? I believe so. He's like, I found this thing. Yes. And he's interrupting Beth at work. Yeah. And she is not having it. Not having it at all. No. This felt very much like me and Rachel. This felt like me and my wife. Rachel's constantly working on stuff and I'm constantly like, you're never going to believe it.

And she's like, do you mind? I'm working on something. I got stuff to do. And she said, listen, you need to get a job. You know what I'm saying? It's not for the money or anything like that, but you need something to give your attention to. Yeah, pour yourself into. You know what I'm saying? It's going to be better for our relationship. It's going to be better for our family. And he's like, all right.

but he still goes back to ask some people if they know who this lady is, right? And the first moment he goes, "Did you know my dad, William?" She's like, "Yeah, I know him." Like, did you know him like- - Did you like him or did you love him? - Did you love him?

She's like, wasn't he a fancy man? Yeah, she goes, wasn't he a fancy man? It's like, oh, you mean gay? Oh, you mean gay? He's like, bye. Bye? Yeah. And she goes, bye. Bye. Good writing. Good writing. That was so funny, though. Fancy man. You're like, no, he wasn't that fancy. Oh. Oh. You mean gay? He's more bye. And then she goes, bye.

Shuts the door. Hilarious. He goes through a few people and he's trying to find some information, whatnot. He winds up leaving and I think he gets a call from Lloyd saying that he was always talking to the super. Let's talk about Lloyd. What are you going to say about Lloyd? Listen, Garrett Morris. Yeah. Legend. Another legend. Legend. Original cast member. Put it on the list. Saturday Night Live. And that man is...

He was funny when we were shooting. You know what I'm saying? Like he's up there in age or whatnot, but like any opportunity he had to make people laugh, he seized it. - What a gift. - It was kind of awesome. It was kind of awesome. We also had Don Lewis in this episode in the building as well, who is a series regular on "A Different World." - Yes. I have a question about Garrett Morris. Because sometimes I show up to work and

I don't look too far ahead and I don't know what's happening that day. And I look at the call sheet and I'm like, no way. And we'll get this. Like I had a scene with an actor named Michael O'Neill. Okay. And I was like, no way.

- No way. - Michael O'Neill's. - Remember who I'm talking about? - I do. - We'll get there, many seasons. - I do. - But was Garrett Moore, do you know he was coming or was that like- - No. - Was that a day of type? - Just a day of like- - You gotta be kidding me. - Garrett Moore's? - You've gotta be kidding me. - Totally. - Cool. - Yeah, very cool. - What a great job. - It's a great job. Michael O'Neill, I have a story. You have to remind me of the Michael O'Neill story because he was on "Army Wives." - He lives in my neighborhood. - Does he really? - We see each other all the time. - Okay, we'll get there when we get there to Michael O'Neill.

We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

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while Rebecca might go for a more soulful yoga session with Aditi Shah. Allow me to give a special shout out to my girl Jess Sims for the dope Sims 60 that she always brings the pain on. Adrian Williams with the Thunder 45. I love you guys.

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But one of the other things that's happening is he's also finding about how William would help other people with things in the building. Like anytime I had a complaint. Yes, about something, he would go and talk. The building's in kind of disrepair, right? The building's in a bit of disrepair.

I go and talk to the super and I was like, were you and my dad in some sort of thing? She's like, child, please. No, he would just come to complain to me anytime somebody had a problem with their oven or with their stuff, like something in the building. He was constantly coming here and letting me know what was going on. And I was like, oh man, I was just trying to find this lady. And he's like, you know what? Give me a second. I got an idea. Because I think she knows. Do you think she knows who the lady is? Like when she tells him to go look in the apartment? Yes.

She's like, why don't you take a look around? He's like, I don't want to disrupt anything. She's like, no, just go look. That actor, her name, I have it right here. Kathy Moriarty plays the super. Raging Bull. From Raging Bull. Yeah. We got beasts permeating the world of TIU, big dog. You know what I'm saying? And our producers have pointed out to us, which maybe wasn't even, I wasn't aware of it, is that every tenant in that building

is a TV regular. Like, every... The entire casting of that are TV regulars. So they all live in the subconscious of the audience. Of ours, yeah. They're all family. I love that. We go... Randall goes into the building, into the apartment, looking around and just sort of feeling his father's presence and what have you, looking for any kind of clues he can. And he goes to the window and he looks out

And there is a picture of Billie Holiday. Yeah. Right across. Lady Day. Lady Day. And there's a little bit of a montage of William talking about, ah, Lady Day. You know, just enjoying that whole thing. And so it wasn't a lady per se. It was just...

the space yeah you know i mean probably because we open did you know that episode opened with billy holiday as oh right the music yes yes yeah with uh as clooney's running through god bless the child god bless the child and so it dawns on randall as he comes to his wife he's like i think i know what it is he's like i think

we should get this building together, right? And rehab it and make sure that these people have the building, the space that they deserve. He wants more than a job. He wants a purpose. He wants a purpose, right? And he wants to do it with his partner.

Which was, lead me to one thing. You guys, you make music with your husband. And it's a pretty harmonious experience, which you said. Look at that big old smile. She's just happy. She's like, yeah, he's pretty cool. He's pretty cool. You guys have done music together as well. Have you done other ventures professionally together? Collaboration. Yes. I mean, Rachel has started her own business. Yeah. But I have very little experience.

I sit on the board of directors, but I stay out of it mostly. I hear you. So the podcast, Ryan and I's podcast is like the first thing that we've sort of done together. And it went pretty smoothly. And it's interesting because I had a little bit of agita surrounding it because I'm like, if it goes bad, then when we go home, we have to talk about how it went bad.

You know what I'm saying? There's no space or separation. My life is a podcast. You know what I'm saying? The day at work, the car ride to work. Sometimes I feel like absence helps the heart grow fonder in that sort of way. But I do, when I remember doing this show and I remember the Randall's in

for being in partnership with his wife, I remember thinking that's something worth modeling, Brown. - Yeah. - Like if it can be done, not in a way that feels forced, you know what I'm saying? But like, it feels like, oh, Rye's skill set is this and Brown's skill set is this. Maybe those things fit together in a way that makes sense. - Sounds like you found that though.

It's we did a season one. Yeah. But that's... We'll see. But that's something. And I feel like because you guys have your own respective careers... Yeah. ...that, like, are the focal point, being able to come together when it does make sense... Sure.

It's great. So for you guys, in terms of like the, how it works, is it just, does he just sit around and jam? Do you sit around and write? Do you write something and be like, Taylor, what do you think? And then does he like get an idea about how to? It has to be intentional. Like, okay, I'm going to make music now. Okay. And let's do this together. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's not more of just like, oh, I like what that,

Remember that riff. - What were you just playing there, sir? - Yeah, yeah. - This seems to be one of the great misconceptions about how artists function is that they're always just kind of floating around and then- - Maybe some people are. That's never how it's worked for me. - Yeah, I mean, maybe, but I guess this is what it is.

- In our younger days. - Sure. - When you're 22. - Sure. - And you're sitting there and you've got no kids. - Yeah. - You wake up at like 11. - Nowhere to go. - Yeah. - And all of a sudden you're like, "Oh my gosh, this melody's in my head."

And you just have time to like go sit at the piano. Taylor is probably cracking up listening right now. Is this what Taylor just did? Yeah. And, oh God, let me, I just have to record this before it gets away from me. Yeah. I have to get this idea. I'm so moved. Before it flies away. It's being channeled through me. Once being an artist becomes your job. Yeah. Right. There's like, no,

No, no, no. Now it's office time. Yeah. Now I have office hours. Sure. And I've heard, especially writers who do it alone, I've heard many, many writers who are like, from the hours of 9 a.m. to 12 p.m., I am in my office. Yeah. And I sit in front of my computer, typewriter, whatever the thing is, and I sit there. Yeah. And if I write, I

I write. If I don't, I sit there. Ass in the seat. Ass in the seat. And sometimes I'll just write garbage just so that I'm writing. But so that the process is in motion and there's a time when it has to happen. I was just saying these trips back and forth to Toronto, I try to go a day early so that I have a day. Yeah.

Two, look at my scripts, go over my things, make some choices, whatever, prepare. Because it's just not happening at home. I hear you. Yeah. It's not happening at home. Yeah. There's, okay, wait. So I'm going to go back because we still have to get to present day Kev. We wrapped up Randall, yeah? Yeah. We decided to do the building together. I mean, we can go straight to that conversation between Kevin and Miguel in the cereal aisle. It's a really good one. Because it is.

It's a really good one. Yeah. Okay, let's do that. It is blunt. It is. What are you doing here, Miguel? He said, you know, you see I'm trying to hang out with my mom and you wind up showing up. Like, what's that about? What are you doing? And he said, you know...

After therapy. Straight up. Yeah, I'm protecting my wife. I'm protecting my wife. I'm here to protect my wife from you. From her child. Well, you don't have to protect her from me. I'm her son. And he says, well, I'm her husband. And then he says, he being Kevin says. My father was her husband. I was like, okay. Yeah, yeah. Good thing Rebecca was getting eggs or whatever.

That was so ice cold. Because again, Justin's delivery is never like sort of like, Justin doesn't go hot. He just goes like matter of fact. You know what I'm saying? It's the shiv. It's the prison shiv that you don't see coming. You think you're talking to each other. Didn't even feel it. Look down, you got blood on your hand. And so later on,

Kev is upstairs in whatever his upstairs bedroom is because clearly Rebecca McGill's house is bigger than... Than Randall. Than Randall and Beth's, right?

but there you guys are watching like some sort of home renovation show home renovation show about the tiny homes etc and just having the best time and just laughing and smiling hugged up underneath under each other's arms and kev walks down and you see rebecca sort of separate from her husband and like what's up man you need something and he's like no i was just you know coming to see what's going on i can't remember exactly what

But then later he goes to the kitchen. Him and Rebecca have a conversation saying, "I noticed when I came downstairs, you kind of separated from Miguel. Like, was there a reason why?" And she says... Like, "I didn't want to make you uncomfortable, right?" And it's almost like he realizes in that, I feel like in my mind, it's like, no, he really is her husband. Well, because let's get back to the way that conversation wraps up in the supermarket.

is Miguel says to him, essentially all those things happen. I am her husband, but Kevin...

I'm not going anywhere. That's right. In a gauntlet town. But it was also, it was a big moment for our audience. Yeah. Because they took it two different ways. The gauntlet, like, you can't get rid of me. But also, Kevin, I'm here. Yeah. And I know your dad is not. I know your dad went somewhere. Right. But I'm not going anywhere. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm curious for audience members who are going through it at that time, who are obviously having their own difficulties with Miguel. Yes. Like if any people settled at that point or if they were still... I'm sure... I feel like it was a gradual thing. I feel like different people got to a place of comfort with Miguel at different times. Well, I feel like the conversation that proceeds from here between Kevin and Miguel...

-a lot of solace. - Yeah. Because Kevin basically, like you said, I don't know if it was the next day, -it's in the kitchen somewhere. - Yeah. He basically says, "Were you in love with my mom while my dad was still alive?" - That's right. - Yeah. And Miguel's like, "That would have been impossible." - Yeah. Absolutely not. - Like, they were so synonymous with each other, your parents. - Like, it wouldn't-- - Your mom and dad were one. Yeah, it wouldn't have even entered my--

consciousness to like that that would ever be an option so no because and it didn't even occur to me until he asked that question that that was the problem that people were having yeah that was the question that people needed the answer to and that's what I mean it was just sort of like it's not so much that he's in love with you

- Or that he married you. - Yeah. - When did it start? - Exactly, exactly. - When did it start? It never occurred to me. - Yeah, were you waiting in the shadows? - Until Kevin asked the question, I was like, "Oh, that's why people have such an issue." They need to know the answer to this question. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And then Kevin giving that permission to Rebecca to be happy with Miguel and not have to hide that. - Yeah. - Is this the episode where you talk about, it's probably the next one,

Like for a long time after your dad died, I didn't know like if happiness was going to be. No, it's this episode. Because if happiness was going to be a part of my life anymore because of the things I grew up. Yeah, and what we have is like it's quieter. It's quieter. But it's like, but it's no less important. I think that's why people had a big issue jumping way ahead to the train. They felt like Miguel didn't get his due. Yeah.

You know, that it was like he was more so Jack focused. And Rebecca and Miguel like shared more years and a very important chapter for both of them as healing older adults to like find each other and have become grandparents together. And like, I never thought about it. Yeah. People were like, what? That's messed up.

He was so glossed over on the train when he really had-- But he was still alive. He was still alive. No. No, he dies before Rebecca. That's right. Spoiler alert. Sorry. Sorry. No, I was getting turned around. Yeah. Yeah, and I also think, because you said it's quieter, but you said, "He makes me laugh." And you saw Kev be like, "You know what, man? I got to cut this dude some slack." You know what I'm saying? This is her husband.

And it's crazy that you would, it would take this much time to get there and have this conversation. Yeah. I feel like, listen, he's been in LA. Of course. No, I mean, it makes sense. But like, I don't know as Mandy, if I could have lived with that sort of very obvious tension. He made no bones about how he felt about Miguel. Right. Yeah. He needed to be rough on Miguel, right?

so that the audience could eventually be, could eventually see that like, okay, buddy, it's been going on long enough. - Yeah. - Like you can. - But it's, and it's true to most folks that I know, and I don't know if you guys can speak to this personally, however tangibly. If you have a step-parent after, you know, watching your parents have been together for years, et cetera, now all of a sudden you seeing them coupled with somebody else,

That's not an easy transition for most people. You know what I'm saying? I've seen both of my parents with new partners. Yeah. And it took time to wrap my head around the idea of my parents not being together and what that meant and how that sort of informed my idea of monogamy and love and what did that mean that they weren't together anymore. Yeah.

I think growing up with divorce all around and it being so commonplace and seeing so many of my friends' parents sort of families fall apart for, you know, lack of a better term. Yeah. That was such a fear of mine. So when it did eventually happen, it took a long time to come around to accepting their new partnerships. Yeah. And, you know, but now it's like the realization is like, oh, everybody...

ended up where they were supposed to, with whom they were supposed to be with. And they're better for it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not so scary. There was a season where it lasted and then that season ended and they moved on to someone else. And that's because I feel like, and we'll get to this later on with Katobi or whatnot. Yeah.

I had my cousin who was divorced. Like people act like it's a failure. - No. - Right? And so like, maybe it was supposed to be for that season of my life. This partnership was supposed to be for this time. And there was something else meant for another time. - And look what it brought. - Yeah. - It brought two beautiful children and Kate and Toby's situation and so much growth and so much learning. And then they just got to a place where it was like,

We've branched off from one another and it's no longer serving us in the way that we both deserve. And I think that's to be celebrated instead of the idea of like digging your heels and sticking with something when it's no longer working. Amen. Amen. Oh my gosh, you guys. You know what we should do, guys? What should we do?

let's do it let's do a kick-ass fan segment i like that um we have a a fan coming on the show who is also a friend i know personally yeah you've you've met her story is not matter but boy does she have a story to tell i've heard it you two have not heard it the audience certainly hasn't heard it but you're not going to want to miss this

All right, folks, it is time for one of our favorite parts of the show, the fan segment. A lot of mysteries are uncovered in Clooney. Kate finally sees Madison. Kevin finally sees the sacrifices that Jack made. And Randall realizes that William's love, lost love, I should say, is actually the view from his window. But...

At the heart of the story is really Randall's desire to connect with William and his former life. Even though William only had a short time with Randall, he made it count.

And Randall is determined in this episode to extend that connection just a little longer, looking for answers to a mystery. That is right. So for today's fan segment, we are talking to a fan and friend of the podcast, Olivia Allen, who will tell us how This Is Us inspired her mother to do something pretty amazing. It's a story she told me when I was on her podcast, Broad Ideas. Yeah.

You two don't actually know the story, so I am excited for you to meet Olivia. What up, Olivia? Hi, Olivia. Hi, guys.

I love that you don't know the story. Yeah, I made sure not to tell them so that you could tell us. So, Chris, you were on the podcast. So, yes, I went on the podcast, on Broad Ideas with Olivia and Rachel Bilson. Okay. And we got to talking about...

The fact that that's not only had Olivia seen the show, but that her and her mom had kind of a really interesting story around the show. Yeah. I was telling Chris that watching the show was obviously emotional, as it was for everyone in the whole world that watched it. Yeah.

My mom and I started a tradition where she would come over every week and we would watch the show together. And it makes me feel emotional even thinking about that because one day I will miss that. But she would come over and I had just had a baby and it was a really bonding time. It was like our thing. We'd watch the show. And then one night I heard her upstairs crying in the bedroom by herself.

And so I went in and I was like, what is going on? And I could hear that it was like she was trying to stop the crying. The show was already over. So I knew something was brought up. And I said, what's going on? And she said that, you know, and I knew this information. I knew she had given up a baby for adoption when she was 19 years old. She's now 18.

82. So at this point, I don't know how many years ago it was, but she had told me when I was young, it was a close adoption. We'll never know who he is. And this was something that caused her great pain throughout her life. And then while we were watching the show, she said it brought up so much pain of wanting to know who

who her son was, that she would never see him, she would never find him. And through your character finding your dad, that's what broke this open 50 years later. Okay? So the next morning, I went on 23andMe, and I'd been on 23andMe for, I don't know, five years at this point, something like that.

And it was the first time I clicked the buck and opt in to connect with relatives. And when I did, I saw that there was someone that shared 25% of my genes. And I was like, it says I have an uncle or something along those lines. And I wrote him and I said, this is going to sound crazy, but I think you're my brother. And he wrote back immediately. This is why I got on 23andMe. Wow.

Drop it, Olivia. Yes. He is in my life. He is in my mom's life. They have the most beautiful relationship. They talk twice a week. They're best friends. He came, he met the family. He is a complete light. He is a wonderful guy. And it was 100%

because of watching This Is Us that that happened and it caused lineages of healing in our family. Yeah, well let the shell shock set in. Yeah, I'm like, hold on. That was how I responded when I heard the story. So this, what is his, can you tell us his first name? Steve. So Steve, with the direct purpose of trying to find you guys to solve this mystery, got on 23andMe and just waited.

And just waited for someone to click that button. Yes. How long was he on there? Do you know? He had been on it, I believe, for years. Wow. And nothing ever moved. And that one night when I heard her crying...

It's like an episode of This Is Us. It's like the episode opens with a guy who invents a DNA service. And it's like, you know what I mean? Like the whole story is an episode of This Is Us. It totally is. Wow. Well, it also is because it's a good outcome. Yeah. It's a great outcome. Yeah. It's the best outcome possible. Yeah. And let me tell you, she lived with this, you guys. The pain of not ever meeting her child again.

For 55 years. I can't even imagine. And in one night of cracking that open, it made me go, wait a minute, there is something I could do. Wow. Wait a minute, Hunter. My question is,

Because Randall looks for William like on the pilot. Was it the pilot or was it like later on in the show? Do you know like after like what episode it was? Are you sure? We were deep in. You were deep in. We were deep in. Yeah, because it's like, yes, in the pilot, he looks for him. That's what got it going. But then it was like the relationship building that really solidified it. Yeah, yeah.

It's such an incredible story, Olivia. Such an incredible show. This is, kudos to our producers and to young Sullivan for like, they're like, they're like, let's, let's, let's not tell them what's going on until, so, because me and Mandy here are just like, I'm like, I can't stop, I can't close my mouth. It's true.

Do you have a relationship with him or is that just... Oh, totally. Yeah. He's a wonderful guy. And the craziest thing is he grew up down the street from where I lived at the time. So when he came to visit, he's like, I grew up three streets over. No. Wow. Three streets over. No, he's fantastic. He's a wonderful person. It's so crazy. He looks more like my mom, acts more like her, the mannerisms than any of us. Are you serious? Wow.

genes man yeah gene genetics are wild yeah so if you want to shake up your life just go on that 23andme app click connect with relatives i've done it have you really i got people there i mean there's nothing nothing like this did you find a brother no no but there's definitely like it's it goes down to like

fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth cousins. - Does it really? - It's a long list of like people that you are genetically related to who, you know, you would never know or there'd be no reason you would know. - Sure. - But this is the second story I've heard. My next door neighbor has a story like this too.

I'm sure there are some crazy stories too. Not spawned by this is us. Just a 23andMe story. No, no, a 23andMe story. I gotcha. I gotcha. That's why this show will always hold the most profound place in our hearts. Thank you so much. That's amazing. We're so honored and honored that you would share this story with us and our audience. I tell you. That is unbelievable. It's one of those things. I say it time and time again. You think you're making a little show?

Trying to like bring a little light, you know what I'm saying? Do your thing or whatnot. But like the number of lives that it has changed, impacted, transformed to that level, like,

I don't know if we'll ever do something again quite like it. That touches that, yeah. Maybe, but who knows? At least we had this. Yeah, you guys nailed it. And she's a grandma to more kids because of it. All of it. It's just incredible. However, you guys should take a lot of responsibility for that because if it didn't hit so hard on the emotion, it wouldn't have propelled the action. Sure. And so, like, what...

what you're doing is actually very important in this world. Thanks, Olivia. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing your story with us. Wow, what a story. Thank you so much. Please give your mom my love. Yes, and your brother. Oh, that'll make it so fun. Yes. For sure. I guess we should have your mom on. Yeah. I guess we should talk to your mom. Yeah, just interview your mom. And real quick, before we say goodbye, I have to know what that pillow says behind you.

I can't always. Such a good question. I don't always whoop, but when I do, there it is. And if that's not a reason to subscribe on YouTube so that you can see this pillow. That's the best pillow I've ever seen. Yep.

Wow. You've brought now two amazing stories to this podcast. Want to plug the podcast before we get out of here? Oh, yeah. Please, please tune in to Broad Ideas with Rachel Belson and Olivia Allen. We need you now, Sterling. We've had Mandy and Chris. Yeah. Anytime. Okay. Deal. Thank you very much. I look forward to it. Okay. Right there on camera. Wonderful. I said it. I'm in. I'm in. Seal the deal. Awesome. I trapped him. Got him. Yeah.

That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.