Shownotes Transcript
On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 2, Episode 10, Number 3. Randall and Beth are faced with a hard choice when unexpected news impacts their journey fostering Deja. Jack takes Randall on a college tour.
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How's it going? How are ya? The third episode in the second trilogy? No, the first trilogy. The first trilogy. End of the first trilogy in season two, because we've already gone through Kevin's, we've seen Kate dealing with the miscarriage, and now we're seeing what's going on in the life of Randall. The same day. All in the same day. From Randall's perspective. And I love, of course, that Randall...
didn't just walk, but he also was talking. He was talking a little bit, too. Jack and Rebecca were like, wait, wait, did he just, what did he just say? Did you say table? Table. Not surprising. Overachiever from the jungle. Sterling worked with that actor. I did indeed. I was like, let's make it real, big guy. Let's make it real. Let's take it again. So we start off this episode, what I kind of really enjoyed about it
is that you just see him in dad mode, right? Hanging out with his girls, helping with homework, et cetera, et cetera. And then he goes and he talking to Deja.
And you see they've been working on this project together with the plants and seeing like what other things besides just, you know, water, whatever, affect plants, playing music, making cheesy jokes about Beyonce and Lemonade. I think he had a dad joke with Faith and Tess about, you know, why did something go to the dentist that had Bluetooth? I can't remember all. He's so dumb and so delightfully dumb and just enjoys being a dad.
Yes. And I can say that those are points of synchronicity between myself and him. And we're upstairs talking to Deja, and then we hear a bit of a kerfuffle. Outside, yeah. Outside. It turns out that Shauna...
Deja's mom has come. She's been let out of prison because the gun was not hers. That was found in her car. Charges were dropped. She said it was really charges were dropped. So her and Beth are having a bit of a heated discussion. Yes. Let me tell you, if you haven't had firsthand knowledge of two sisters in the midst, that was a close representation of what it's like. And mama bears. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like going at it. Yeah. Yeah.
i so love to see suge because you don't get mad you know what i'm saying but like there was there was like she said like i'll be back and she's like we'll be here you know what i'm saying like yeah you know and it was interesting because you get a chance to see this little girl and she gets mad she would get mad even at that time lyric when i would call her a little girl she's like i'm not a little girl i'm a young lady and i would say okay young lady
but you get a chance to see her handle her mom. Like she becomes the pin.
the parent. And this mom is like, that's not the way it goes, mom. We have to call the social work and everything will work out, right? Did you not find that heartbreaking? Very much so. Yeah. I just was like, oh. Very much so. A child being asked to like parent the parent. Yeah. Yeah. You understand their dynamic. It's like, oh, this is the way it always is. Yeah. Yeah. And the girls go, is everything okay? And he's like, no, just you know, it's Deja's mom coming and
Everybody's just trying to do what's best for her. I can't remember all the lines, but that's the gist. Deborah Jo Rupp comes back as Linda. Yep. As Linda and is telling us that she is indeed out, that she's gotten herself together. She's got an apartment. I checked on her the other day. She seems to be doing really well. And I'm going to recommend to the court that she be reunited with her daughter. Like Beth and Randall, like, you gotta be kidding me.
Like, oh, that's what you have to do? Like, you have a gun in the car, whatnot. The kid could have got to it, not gotten to it. Like, I don't care how she's doing right now. Like, how are you going to tell me that the woman that showed up at my doorstep yelling at my wife last night, by the way, let me go back real quick. Nothing is more embarrassing to black people acting a fool in front of white people. Yeah.
The neighbor's coming out. Like, everything okay? I'm like, oh, bro, you weren't supposed to see me. Oh, God. I'm just being honest. Like, that was a real moment. I was like, we're not supposed to do this in front of them, right? So you're going to tell me...
That this woman who showed up last night is fit to be like, and I say it in the lab, like Deja actually had to like parent her. Yeah. Right? And so now you're going to reunite them and we're just through with it. Randall is, I would say Beth is here and Randall's like even a little bit hotter. It's like, listen, I have to go drop my kids off now. I have two drops. I keep my house clean all the time because that's how we do things. Because before she'd ask you, are you finished? And I was like, no, I'm finished. Right? Yeah.
Okay. Go drop the girls off. You can see Annie's like, is everything going to be okay with Deja? I said, yeah, we're just all trying to figure out what's best for her. That's all that matters. You guys go to school. Everything is going to be fine. Then he has to drop off Deja. And she asks, like, have you talked to the social worker and everything? I was like, no, we're still figuring it out. So he gives a lie.
Not because he's just trying to obfuscate, but he's like, "I don't know if I'm ready to just get into this just yet." Yeah. So she goes to school. He's going to come back later to see her project, right, that she's been working so hard on and they had a wonderful time doing together. Calls Beth, admits that Linda had already given permission for Shawna to be reunited with her. I just wasn't ready for it, right? He has a memory to when William was alive.
And he just had his breakdown in season one. And he's like, "Man, that was a lot. I didn't know that that was something that you had to deal with." And he's like, "You know what? I'm not actually..." Oh no, it was after Thanksgiving. It was after Thanksgiving, excuse me. I know Thanksgiving was a big deal. It was a lot to go through. And he's like, "You know, I'm not ready for small talk right now." And he's like, "Okay, I got you." They're just laying on lawn chairs, going through it. And he said, "How many times have you met my mom?" And he said, "Twice."
You know, once when you were newly born and she just kind of wanted to connect and see me, et cetera. And then once when you were about nine and she told me you were doing really well and I got myself cleaned up and I was doing much better. And I got really excited at the prospect that she might allow me to be a part of your life. And so I'm getting myself together and she ghosted. Disappeared. And we remember that from previous episodes. What we didn't realize
is that he followed her, right? And I was like, oh man, like I'm like remembering these things as they come to me too, because I was like, oh yeah, that's right. He did follow her. He only had $20 and he asked the cabbie to go as far as he could, hoping that he had enough money. He thankfully did. We see Rebecca going to the house and we see young William walk up to the house and knock on the door.
And Jack and Rebecca let him in, right? And he gets a chance to meet young Randall. And he's like, I didn't know if I was going to be a part of everything, but maybe just sort of like the bigger moments, right? Birthday party, you see they're celebrating his birthday and he's standing in the background just smiling. Happy as can be. Graduation from high school or whatnot. You see William there. Now, we obviously know that this didn't happen, but we're just seeing it play out what would have been, what could have been. Yeah.
And then you see him standing at the door and he says, but I saw these three bikes. And they said, one, two, three. And I realized I didn't know which bike was yours. That there's this history, these nicknames that you guys had already assigned to one another. A whole life that it transpired that I had absolutely nothing to do with. Who am I to inject myself into that and disrupt the equilibrium of what your life is right now? Sure. And so he decided not to.
And so you flash back to Randall in the car just kind of being like, he decides then to go check out Joy's apartment. And he sees Shawna, played by Joy Brunson, who I absolutely love. And you see her smiling, talking to neighbors. She's got new clothes that she's got for Deja and whatnot. And it's like sort of like in a good frame of mind, right? Yeah.
So then he goes back to school and he meets with his wife. And I love, like the scenes with Beth and Randall are so just like, I love that woman. And I love the relationship that we were able to have on screen. And I was like, I don't know if it's right for us to keep Deja from her mom. And Beth is on the same page. She's like, I was thinking the same thing. Right. And...
Now, this is an anecdote here because I can't remember this whole thing, but I remember Dan coming up to me for this episode and be like, I have this thing about Pac-Man.
And I was like, okay. He's like, it doesn't really make sense, but it kind of makes sense. You'll do great with it. And that was it? And then he's gone. And you did. And people really responded to that metaphor. Yeah, the fans on social at that time. They did? Well, because he goes through it and he's sort of breaking it down. And he says, you know, you're just...
Like Sisyphus, you're just going in and you're doing the same thing over and over again, just trying to gobble up these dots and avoid the ghost. But eventually the ghost catch up to you or whatnot. And Beth is sitting there listening to it. She's like, baby, what are you talking about? I said, I don't know.
But maybe that's kind of like what life is and that they're supposed to catch up to you and that's the beautiful part of it. What's the whole kind of reinterpretation of the Sisyphus myth is Sisyphus smiles? Yeah. Is that the one thing we don't realize about that story is that Sisyphus loves the rock? Is happy.
Yeah. Sisyphus loves the push. Right. Sisyphus loves the... Yeah. And so they leave it there, but recognizing that, you know, I think of William and like, I don't know if he says that in this, does he say like...
Well, he doesn't say this, but you understand that like my mom made a choice with regards to my life and keeping me from him. And listen, we've only been a part of her life for a hot second. Like we're actually the ones that are disrupting what was. And if she wants to be there, like who are we to keep her from that? Right?
And Brown got a little teary and they're standing in the back of the classroom and she's doing her presentation. Presentation of her science project. And she's talking about one particular aspect of the project and she goes, "My foster dad helped me with that." And I'm telling you, it's... Okay, a couple of things. Let me get anecdotal for just a second and we'll jump into the past storyline as well. I got two boys, love these little boys.
And I think God/the universe has blessed me in television many times to just have these girls. - Have daughters. I love that. - And I gotta tell you, I love them. I love all of them. And I was like, maybe like, and I don't, there's no regrets. Like, I think everything happens exactly as it's supposed to happen.
But I'm so thankful that I get a chance to like supplement my own fatherhood with these beautiful young women that I have in my life too.
That's it. I love that. True. Brown gets a little misty. It's also one of Brown's favorite memes is putting his thumb up of himself. I use memes of myself from time to time. GIFs of myself. I do too. It's my favorite thing with my group of friends. I also have a thumbs up meme. You do? Yeah, it's Toby early in one of the recovery meetings inviting her to a Super Bowl party at his house. Oh, yeah.
I'm going to use them both in our group chat. You have to use them both in a group chat, right? More That Was Us after this short break.
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So we go back to the house. Deja's packing her stuff up. There's a little bit of a montage of the girls saying goodbye, et cetera. Randall goes out to see Shauna and gives her a bag, says she's bringing the rest of her stuff down. You know, if you ever need any help, right? Like, you know, math and science are kind of my jam. If you need help with homework. And she's like, well, we're going to be in New Jersey. And he's like, yeah, but still, like, I can pack the girls up. It would be an easy thing. We'd just come through. And she's like, no, I think we're good.
And you get it, like the wind that is in Randall Pearson's sails, he's like, "Okay, this one is not going to go that way. So, okay." - Yeah. - Deja comes out and she says goodbye to Beth. Very sweet exchange between the two of them, what have you. I gotta keep this one together because this one actually got me, for real, for real.
And she's talking to me and she says, you know how when we first met, you were saying you kind of felt split in two, right? Because you had the bio father that you didn't know, but you had this family that you're with that you obviously love. She said, well, just because I want to be back with my mom doesn't mean that I didn't really enjoy living here with you guys. He's like, yeah, I know that.
And I says, oh, look, I know you're not too big on me touching everything. She's like, well, that's just when I don't see it coming. I was like, oh, okay. So there's a hug. Man, man. Yeah. Lord have mercy. There's so much love that like,
that I have for this child who's now 21 years old. She's grown. And she was just so mature and just like, it was like, it wasn't hugging. It was like hugging someone that I've known all my life. Oh, yeah. And, you know, we talk about the big house and the fancy car. And then she just ends it by saying, bye, Randall.
You know what I'm saying? And she's gone. And there's a couple of tears from Randall. He goes to be with his wife as they say goodbye. And the last part of the storyline is after she's gone and there you see Beth sort of cleaning up her bedroom, folding up blankets, et cetera. And he's like, you know what? I feel like we should try again. Like maybe not immediately, what have you, but I feel like we should do it. And she's like, you know what?
We have a lot of love in this house and we are set up for it and we will try again." So there's a positive thing. He's like, "You know what? Maybe next time it'll be a little boy." And she's like, "A boy, huh?" I was like, "Yeah, man, make a dream." You know what I'm saying? And then there's a shot, is this in this episode, of a little boy
Being talked to by a black woman. Yeah. Who we assume is like a social worker. Yeah. And that this little boy could be like, it's a seat. Potentially like the boy that like. And here's it. So, okay. I'm going to say, I'm going to give everybody a pause for a second, because if you're watching along and you haven't gotten ahead, don't listen to this next part. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Because we know.
I didn't realize until watching this again, I was like, oh, wow. That the social worker is grown up Tess. Yes. Right? Yes. And it's such a wonderful... From the future. The way these writers be sprinkling. Yeah. They be sprinkling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a sprinkle, but it was a diversion sprinkle. It's a diversion sprinkle. Yeah. So that's where that storyline ends up. So, okay, Chris, what's on your mind? No, I just, the montage and the longing that young William had for...
Imagining how something might have gone. Not immediately, not as I was watching, but in the days following. And I don't know if you guys have ever experienced this. I had a visceral, it was almost like a memory of what my life would have been if I never moved to New York. Oh, wow. And the important part is it was great.
Like I had this because of the way I was thinking about these episodes and, and, and the way that literally the way the show was structured, I had this memory of Rachel and I's life together in Chicago as a, as a theater actor, as a working theater actor living in our home and like the children in the schools. And I could picture the schools cause I've seen them and the neighborhoods and like all these things. And, and, and I,
That never happened to me before in my life, ever. Ever. And you think it was a direct, like the correlation between this episode. Because I was really sad for young William that he didn't get to have that. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. And it was one thing to imagine it. Yeah. And it was another thing to like see it. Yeah. And it really, really fucked with me. Yeah. Yeah.
and and and i was kind of blown away that it evoked like a positive version of that for myself like it's not that i regret anything sure that has ever happened but there was this weird medicinal like sliding door thing that happened yeah and it was yeah it was it was a lot i was sitting there sitting in the car i was like it was like a whole like a whole nother life had been revealed to me i was like ruminating on the idea that like
These three episodes, there's like this pivot point of pain for all three of the characters, right? Kevin hits rock bottom. Yeah. Kate loses the baby. Randall says goodbye to Deja. It's like, it's so interesting that like these three siblings find themselves at this like
real inflection point of like things are about to turn in what direction, who knows? But like, maybe it can only go up from here. Right. You know, but I just, I was like, that's so interesting that like they chose this like seemingly natural
you know, like innocuous time, right? Like for in the past and in the present, but it's like, oh no, actually like it's all for a reason. Like it all means something. These are very, very big monumental chapters sort of coming to a close or to a head for these characters. You know, so to that point, the thought that I have with it is that
Because in the next episode, we'll get into Kevin's addiction, right? Yeah.
But because these two siblings had something so critical going on in their own lives as well. Yeah. Like they were not necessarily tuned into what was happening with their brother. Sure. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. In that way. And it just reminds you that like life be life and for everybody. Yeah. You know? Yep. Because Kate says later on, like, I'm so sorry I didn't, wasn't there. I didn't see it. And you're like, you just lost the baby. Yeah.
- Yeah. - You know what I mean? - This is the constant struggle for me in my life, is to stay as present as I can in my own life while still acknowledging the fact that everybody is going through something. - Sure. - Something, yeah. - And to try to be present for them too. - Right. - For the kids and for Rachel and for some people, I know they're going through stuff and I'm just like,
i got nothing for you yeah i've got no energy i i don't have any insight i i
Sometimes all you can do is just sit with people or just listen or whatever the thing is. But I have definitely been guilty of that, having all of these people around me going through things and I'm so self-involved or so self-focused on whatever the thing is, even if it's justified that they fly by and it's painful. And I'm curious how you feel about this, man, because I feel like it is oftentimes the women in our lives that
put the needs of others before themselves. So I'm curious to this idea, what you made me think of is like, you know, you got to put your own mask on first so you can help other people get their masks on too. Sure. But I don't know if everybody thinks that way or not. I'm not 100% sure. I think for a big part of my life though, I'd put my mask on and then worry about how I looked in my mask. Okay.
Am I doing this right? Is it, I don't feel any air coming in. Like, you know what I mean? But you're not, you're not wrong. I mean, I think it's the, I'm aware that that is the way it's supposed to go, but it doesn't often unfold that way. It's like my, my,
I think I'm predisposed to want to take care of those around me. And especially like being a parent now, it's like, that's where my focus is. Like I need to take care of these little people that are relying on me and then I can focus on myself. That's interesting. Cause like, if I take, I mean, true to, I was like, if I take care of myself first, this is not the term,
I'm better able to take care of everybody else. 1,000%. You're not incorrect. That is not incorrect. That is not incorrect. That's what I'm saying is like, I feel like I'm at this juncture of my life where that doesn't feel as feasible. Sure. No, I understand that. But maybe a couple years removed, I'll be like, yes. But it does like come to a head because sometimes then you reach that point where you're like, if I don't have...
a moment to breathe for myself, like I will not be able to fill my cup and therefore be as present as I need to be for my family. I've also been listening to this incredible podcast called We Don't Always Agree. And I know that if one of the co-hosts, her name's Ryan Michelle Bathay, if she were sitting here, she would say, of course you get the chance to take care of yourself.
because somebody else is taking care of everything else I hope she hears that because she would love it because it's exactly what she would say she would feel validated
Well done. But as long as you come back around and take care of people, taking care of yourself is never a problem. Self-care is not selfish. No. Let's go to the past because there's still like a little bit of a thing, a coda that I want to get to in the present. Yes, exactly. But I want to get to the past. Okay.
Kate's doing her songs for school. Kev is figuring out what he's doing for college. And Randall's filling out his college applications. Randall's filling out his college applications. Got Harvard and Stanford and all these things, right? And he's looking at them all and whatnot. But he lingers particularly on this application to Howard University. Anecdote.
Susan Kletche-Watson attended Howard University. Sterling K. Brown applied, got accepted to Howard University, visited the campus of Howard University. Was probably my second choice. Okay. Beautiful place. Gorgeous. And one of the only reasons, one of the main reasons. I wondered as I was watching. I was wondering about you. One of the main reasons why I didn't go is I thought I would leave with children.
there were so many beautiful women. - Wait, for real? ♪ Solid as a rock ♪ Like there were so many beautiful women on that campus. Number one, I was like, I don't know if I can make it. Number two. - This is hysterical. - Number two was that if you go to an HBCU by and large,
folks be dressing. Like you dress up for school in a way that you don't around like in a PWI. Got it. You know? Okay. And I was like, I don't know if I have the wardrobe for this school. So those two things together. So if you want to avoid both of those things, the attractive women and the, you go to Stanford University. The multitude of attractive women. It was just. Sure, sure, sure. Stanford did, we did fine. Bird, you were gorgeous. Yeah,
Yeah, you did okay. I don't want to say Stanford is the whitest college. It's pretty white. Okay, I digress. So Randall goes and he finds his dad. Was it his dad first or his mom first? I'm trying to remember. He said, Dad, I want to go visit this college. Because his dad was going to take him. He's like, okay.
Harvard, you know, I just found sounds good coming out of my mouth, Harvard. He's like, actually, dad, I would love to go to this other school, Howard. It's in DC and I kind of want to check it out. It's about four hours away. He's like, all right, man, we'll get around to it. He's like, can we go this Friday? Because that's when they're meeting and everything. He's like, well, Kev's got a game this Friday. He's like, Kev got a game every Friday. You know what I'm saying? He always has a game. Like he wasn't letting it go. He wasn't being pushy, but he was like,
Can we do it? And he's like, yeah, we can do it. Kind of a first for Randall. Yeah. Like asserting himself. Absolutely. Like in a very effective but definite manner. Adult. He's like, let's do this. And he's like, okay, cool. And he's just beaming. Like he's thought about it. Yeah. He has a plan. He's thought long and hard because you know that, who's Rye's character on that show?
Yvette. Yvette's son. Yvette has a son that's already there. Yes. Keith. Keith. That's right. Thank you very much. Yeah, if people didn't make that, it took me a second to make that connection. Yeah. I was like, oh, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he agrees to go. You see the same scene retold three times. Like everybody at the door can't be like, oh, don't worry, man. I got plenty of fans. Ugh. Every time it just makes you cringe. And I have to give Niles credit for, because Niles was...
What he does with the corniness that is Randall is whereas like I sort of lean into like, I got, he just goes, "See, hello, cool K." Like he just keeps, he's like, "It's a dumb line," but he's like, "Why hello, cool K." And then I evolve it to like, "Hey, hello, cool K." Like it's just like put a little sauce on it. - Sure, sure, sure. The confidence arrives. - There you go. - Real quick, I think the interesting mirror of this episode is Randall and Jack pushing the limits
of fatherly connection. Yeah. Like really trying to see how far they can-- Take it. Just get in there, just hold their kids. Sure. So they get to campus, to this point, Chris,
They get to campus and there's Keith and a bunch of his friends. And they're like, "Yo, what up RP? How you doing?" And he's so excited. I also love they both have on the same kind of coats. Dude, Jack and Randall, right? Like he's got like the sort of like pea coat, long sort of thing. And everybody else is dressed differently, right?
And they're about to join the college tour. And then Keith's like, "Actually, I was gonna show him around some of my friends and anything like that, have it be a little less formal." He's like, "Well, you gotta show him everything, Keith, make sure he sees-" A real tour. A real tour. And he's like, "Okay." And just Niles' face, Azra, he's just beaming. He's just so happy to be in this place, right?
And you show Jack like, oh, okay. I thought it was going to be this one thing. You see Jack kind of by himself, what have you. But then you see Randall go through a lot of things, right? He's meeting new people, et cetera. They're shown on the campus. A couple of sisters walk by. And he's like, okay. He's like a Cheshire cat, man. Like he can't stop grinning from ear to ear. Just so happy. Then there's this conversation where he's talking to the guys. He's like, you know, like...
He goes like, "My high school is pretty much all white." And they're like, "Yeah, mine too." He's like, "Yeah, mine too." 'Cause I think there's this expectation that everybody here is gonna have like this quote unquote black experience that I haven't had. And so to those guys saying that like, "Man, my high school is kind of like that too. My high school is like that too." There's a place for you in this space. - Yeah. - Right? You don't need to feel like you are outside of it. Like we all come from a similar sort of thing. And you see him just,
ease into it even more and more and more, right? So they're out on the quad at the end of the thing and Jack's walking up because it's time to get back. They got to get back to everything. And you see Randall kind of go quiet a little bit and is like, oh, dad, I want you to meet people. There's a little bit of a hesitation, if you will. And he goes, well, it's time for us to go. He's like, oh, really? He's like, yeah, we got to get out of here. So he says goodbye to all the fellas. They're like, hey, man, can't wait to see you. Like, it's all love, right?
They get in the car and they're driving back. The afterglow, Niles kills this, man. He's just warm. - Beaming, yeah. - You know what I'm saying? Every part of his fiber is just like- - Activated. - Activated. He's like, "How was it?" And he's like, "It was great, it was great." Also, I have to make my voice deeper to catch up with Niles 'cause he's like, "It was great, Dad."
And he says, you know, there was a moment there where it seemed like you didn't want to introduce me to your friends or what have you. And he's like, oh, he's like, well, I didn't want to introduce you. Not because you're white. It's because you're old. Right. And Jack was like, oh, OK. Still not 100 percent convinced, but like, I'll take you at your word. He goes, but dad, you know, that feeling that you felt when you didn't feel accepted for that moment when I didn't introduce you? Feel like that.
All the time. Yeah. Off balance is how he put it. Yes. What I love about this conversation is that it's a conversation between a young black man and a white man who love each other. And I think this is one of the magic things. Conversations that are difficult still transpire. And just because they're difficult doesn't mean they need to be had.
But because you know that there's love on this side and love on this side, I can tell you the truth and you will meet me where I am. Yeah. Right? I wish that was a more readily available thing that we practiced. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Or just even coming from a place of love so that you don't immediately vilify someone that has something to tell you. Right. Yeah. And so Jack hears him. He's like, we'll make one more stop. And he shows him.
The wall. The Vietnam Memorial. Vietnam Memorial in D.C. And he talks about how, you know, he was in the war and he got drafted when he was 25. And a lot of things changed for him. He's like, there's some things that it's hard to talk about. Don't even tell your mom about it, what have you. But when I first got back, I kind of felt out of balance and out of place, too. It was a moment for me of real sort of like,
He empathizes. Yeah. Like he didn't dismiss how he felt. He's like, listen, it may not be the exact same thing. Sure, but I'm going to find a way in. Yeah, but I've felt what you felt. And I'm going to tell you from my experience, it comes and goes, right? There are times in which you feel a part of, and there's times that you feel on the outside of it. But you just keep showing up basically because you belong. And he says, oh, Milo, is it extraordinary? Spectacular. I wrote spectacular.
He goes, "Whatever choices you make, dog, you need to trust them and lean into them and go with them because you're spectacular." And he goes, "No, no." He says it again. "You're spectacular." What a word. What a choice. And here's the thing that I thought of too. Such a specific choice. Here's the thing that I thought of too, because this will come up later in terms of the words Jack uses with Kate as well.
and how she sort of reaches an impasse with regards to how much she wants to hear them. And then something else happens too. I always think in my head, I don't know if you guys are at this place. This show, I think even sort of helps me with it. I want to be the voice in my child's head that they want to hear. - Yeah. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - My wife in particular, my wife talks to herself.
She's not crazy. She's an only child and she does a lot of talking to herself. Like talking out loud. Talking out loud. And I always just sort of roll up around the corner because I'm always curious, what is Ryan thinking now that she won't tell me? And sometimes she'll be talking about things that other people have told her about herself, about the industry, et cetera, et cetera. And they can be affirming, they can be critical or whatnot.
And I was thinking, I was like, when my kids, if they do have these conversations with themselves out loud or otherwise, I hope they can think back to the things that their dad said to them and it makes them feel good. Oh, I have no doubt. Because that spectacular one, I was like...
That's a good one. That's a good one to have reverberating in your dome for perpetuity, right? Yeah. So that, is that the end of that storyline? It is. And they all come together and then, you know, Kevin there at the hospital, et cetera. But yeah, that's the end of that. And it sort of makes you wonder, 'cause I know we'll get into it a little bit later on,
Who would he have been if he went to Howard? But see, we don't know that. I thought about that watching this episode. It was like a little more crushed for him because I thought, wow, what could have been? Again, like with William. Sure. What could have been? What would his life have looked like had he been given the opportunity to go there? Yeah. Yeah.
- We'll never know. - We'll never know. - Oh, except when we get to later on and he dreams about how he went to Howard and it gets later. - We'll get there. - Hold on a second. Coda on the present is that it sort of wraps up and then we catch up with all three of our big three.
Mom calls Randall, tells him about Kate losing the baby. So when Kev shows up and he's like, Randall, I got to tell you something. He's like, I already know. Kate lost the baby. He's sort of like, oh, not fully knowing that as well. And sort of shook. Kev goes into the kitchen doing a little day drinking, vodka and orange juice, right? This is the same episode, right? Yes.
Vodka and orange juice, taking it to the head in front of the girls. And, you know, Randall can tell, he's like, "Man, you don't look great. Like, you know, hope you can get it together, but I should go call our sister." And that's probably the right play. We just found out. Sister lost the baby, like she needs- And he was like, "Nah, I'm good. I don't want to talk to him right now." He's good. And then so he decides, telling the girls, he's like, "You know what? Just tell her I had to go." Right?
So Kev takes off after like downing two glasses, right? We saw two glasses of OJ and vodka. Yeah. He's in the car.
He's not, you know, he's swerving a little bit. Yeah, kind of intentionally, right? Like dangerous driving. Maybe he wants to hurt himself or who knows. And then we find out that Tess is in the back of the car. Uncle Kevin, what are you doing? Slow down. And she's like, what are you doing here? Put your seatbelt on. Like he, last thing that he ever wanted was for one of his nieces to be in the car with him, right? We see the police, gets pulled over.
Phone call to Black Pearson house. Beth is, Tess is, 'cause we're looking for Tess. We don't know where she is. Tess is with Kevin, your brother. He just got pulled over for a DUI. All Randall says is, "I'm gonna kill him." Right? - Yep. - That's pretty much where we leave it. - Yeah, that's the end of this trilogy, the first trilogy. - Okay, so let's just talk about the trilogy
It was great. Period. There's so much more on the watch. It is. We are going to talk to... Niles. We are going to talk to Niles. Niles. Yes, we are. Today. Today. Right now. Let's do it. So we'll be right back with more That Was Us. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.
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Ladies and gentlemen, everyone, we are back with more That Was Us. We have a special guest with us, as we referred to. The linchpin, I consider, of Randall, because there's the younger version, then there's the older version, but the one, the tie that binds, that brings it all together. My main man. The cornerstone. Niles B.
What up, homie? How you doing, bruh? Doing great. How y'all doing today? We're great. We're doing great. It's so good to see you. I was just teasing Nas. I was telling him he gained weight in his neck. My man got thicked out. You know what I'm saying? He's grown. He's graduated from USC. Well, you were 14, 15, right? When you started the show, when you got cast? 14 going on 15. Now I'm 23. My goodness. Look at him. Yeah.
College grad. Niles came to a premiere of American Fiction one time. Had a lovely date. He was so sweet. It was so great to see him. We had fun. I always tease him. I'm not going to tell you what I said about him because I don't want to embarrass him too much. But he's been one of these people in my life that I've always just been happy with.
to be in the presence of. You get a chance to see these young people grow up and you and Milo probably feel it even more acutely than I do. I have these little girls, but you got a chance to see this dude become a man. - Yeah. - You a man now, big dog? - Yeah. - Trying to be, trying to figure it out. - It takes a long time.
Oh my God. I'm still working on it. I thought it would click. Yeah. Click overnight. No, no, no, no. Talk to us a little bit about what's going on in life. You just graduated. You are, are you a directing major? Like the focus that you want to do is start being behind the camera or what? So the, uh, the program that I did kind of encompassed it all. So it was directing, writing, editing, producing. Okay. So just any route that, you know, I wanted to take. Yeah. I learned about. And it was, wow.
- Amazing, amazing two and a half years. - This man also has sent me a full script. Your script is like 120 pages. I haven't read it yet. I promise I'm gonna read your script. - No worries, no worries. Throw himself under the bus there. - I thought he was sending me like, you know, I'm trying to do this short. And I'm like, no, it's 120 pages. - Yeah, proper script. - I'm doing real stuff. We're doing real things. - He's not sending you shorts.
He's not, "Hey, you wanna be in my student film?" No. He's graduated. - We've graduated beyond that. - We've graduated to another level. We're watching 210, which is episode number three. So it has Kevin's episode, then it has Kate's episode, then it has Randall's episode, right? And your storyline sort of focuses on
Howard University, applying to colleges and whatnot, but being uniquely sort of pulled to Howard University. You go on a road trip with your dad. Tell us a little bit about your experience of shooting that episode. And this was one of the few times also... We traveled. ...that TIU went on the road. They actually went. And I think it was one of the first things to actually shoot at Howard University. Really? Yeah. So I'm curious to hear what your experience was like. The experience was really good because at the exact same time, I was also a
applying to colleges too. Yeah. So I got to do a little tour of Howard and all the students that were helping us on set were super nice. But being able to travel, especially with Milo, man, it was a great experience. My mom got to come. I had some friends from Atlanta pull up too. Nice. God, it was...
being able to travel and work is like the two best things you can get. One of the comments that I was making to the team is that you as Randall just had this Cheshire cat grin on your face the whole time you were on campus, right? And I'm wondering like how much of that was just Randall and how much of it was Niles also just being like, yo, it's a campus full of Black folks
like how cool was it just to be in that environment they call it the mecca what was it like to be there that was 100 all not like you know not only that at the time i'm 17. yeah so i'm seeing people in college i'm seeing you know i'm seeing what i'm about to become yes uh so i
I was bright-eyed and, you know, I wanted to experience everything that I could in the little time that we had out there. Absolutely. Did you say it was the first time anything had filmed? I don't know if it was the first time, but they don't let a lot of people from what I remember talking to from Sue, like, onto the campus a lot. So, but at least shooting Howard for Howard. Interesting. I think it was one of the few times. Oh, wow. That's very cool. Yeah. Very cool. Niles, can you
walk us through the process of how you got on This Is Us? Like your audition process, what you knew about the show? Because we've talked to Logan and Hannah and the audience is aware that like we did shoot a sort of younger version of the teenage big three. Yeah.
And then they realized that there wasn't enough of a jump between the young version and what, because your characters had to sort of like live through Jack passing away. And so it just, it wasn't going to work age wise. So you guys had to kind of like jump in very last minute. What was the process like?
Yeah, my process. So I originally auditioned when the show before it even came out. So I believe Dan was in the final meetings, but it was me and like a bunch of kids that were Lonnie McKenzie's Parker age. And I'm 14 at the time. So I'm looking around and I'm like, okay, this probably isn't going to go my way. So then maybe three months later, out of the blue, I get a call to come in, you know, audition.
I audition on a Thursday after school. The next day I'm getting out of class. I get a call saying that
I booked it and I need to be ready to do wardrobe the next day because we film Saturday and Sunday. So it happened in less than two days. - Oh man! - Nuts. - And then I'm coming on set and Milo's like, "Oh, we have a lot in store for you guys." And I'm looking like, you know, to me, that's just a one episode thing. And one episode turned into six years of my life. - Wait, wait, wait, you were just,
They asked you to do one episode? Like, there wasn't a full contract that you signed for multiple years? It was just one? I had no idea, especially because I hopped on and they said that it was potential to be a guest star. Like a reoccurring? I think it was only a guest star at that point. Mm-hmm.
And, you know, here we are. And then we were reoccurring and then series regulars. And wow, it happened so quick. And I was only in L.A. for six months prior to that. Are you serious? And that's how it goes for everybody. Yeah, it's just that easy. You have to put your time in and then they call.
When you least expect it. You're totally when you least expect it. Talk to us a little bit about the relationship that you, Hannah, and Logan had with each other through that whole process because you guys were with each other all the time. And it seemed like a really authentic and beautiful bond between TV siblings. Talk to us a little bit about it. Well, I think Hannah and I's relationship specifically was able to grow
when we first started because we both lived in the same area. - Okay. - And I didn't drive. So my mom was working, so Hannah and I would carpool to work nearly every single day.
And then, you know, Logan and I would go surfing and we would hit up Six Flags all together. So just over time, we truly, you know, built this brother and sister relationship. And even post-filming, they were at my graduation, my birthday party that I had, you
you know, a couple months back. They took me out to dinner after I graduated, but, you know, we've really built a real bond, and I'm glad to have been able to meet them, you know? We heard about that birthday party. Y'all better not ask. We were just, you know, I... We were like, where was our invitation? I moved, so my address... There you go. It got lost in the mail. Yeah, it definitely got lost in the mail. It's totally cool. It's totally cool. We understand.
How long before, how long were you on the show before you three going to Universal Studios together became an international incident? Oh, that's a good question. Like, I'm sure you became quickly recognizable, especially when you were together. Man, maybe not until like two seasons in. Oh, wow. Two seasons in. Okay. Then it was like we go to Six Flags and people are taking pictures, but luckily,
the demographic that would recognize it usually wasn't at a Six Flags. - That's true. - Sure. - Okay. - Slightly older demographic. - Yeah. - You know, we were able to traverse it and not have any problems. - You gotta go hang out at old folks homes like me and Sterling. - To get recognized. - We just wander in and be like, could you see if we can help with anything? People go crazy. - Was it, is it, I mean, after six years of doing the show,
Would you say that it changed your life? Has it changed anything in terms of career opportunities or trajectory? Or have things kind of like mellowed out again? Tell me what life is like right now, and especially immediately after the show to now. I think what was great about me doing the show was I started acting when I was three. So I had been working before the show. So when getting on the show, I was...
I think my mindset was, okay, this is a great stepping stone for now giving me a platform for people to be able to see my talent. So I really tried to utilize that to, you know, when we would have an off season, be working on something else. So it's always just building up the resume to be able to show one day, Hey, you can trust me with a $10 million, $15 a month.
you know, $15 million budget. $15 million budget, not 15. That's the short films that I was. That's right. He hasn't read those scripts either. I got $15 for you. Since then, since filming the show, since finishing the show, uh, I did, uh,
This movie that did really well in festivals with Jenna Ortega and Maddie Ziegler called Fallout. Okay. This comedy on Netflix with Anthony Mackie. Yes. And I have this TV show coming out by Mara Brock and Keely and produced by Regina King called Forever. That's to come out next year. And then I was doing college, so.
Just trying to stay busy, man. Just a little busy. Just a little busy. Prioritize school. Did you and Regina meet on This Is Us ever? Never did. Never did. So it was really cool being able to meet her and
to be able to meet somebody that you've looked up to and then to exceed your expectations on how kind of a person they are. Yeah, it meant a lot. Yeah, she's an incredible lady. She's exceptional. And she does it all too. She started off and she's directing and acting and producing. You guys have a very similar trajectory or could have a very similar trajectory. Yes, exactly. I could see that. We'll have. Come on. Yes. I got you.
Thank you. Let me ask you a little bit more about 210, especially just scenes with Milo. You talked to us a little bit about being on the campus or whatnot and how the smile was real, because I had a feeling that it was. But just the scenes with Milo, because these race conversations between a young Black man and a white man, right, and how...
If you remember it, I don't even know how much you can remember because it was such a long time ago. But talking about dad, you know that feeling that you had for a moment when you thought that I didn't introduce you to my friends because you were white? I feel like that all the time. I'm curious for a young man, what was like to tackle those scenes dealing with race head on? I think it really helped me and Milo had a very honest relationship. Yeah.
I was in the show, you know, we do have you and Lonnie and your family in the show. But when it came to my age range, I was the only, you know, black person. So I would even experience it when we were, you know, when we'd have an event or, you know, they're going up to Logan or Hannah and, you know, I'm just there. So being able to then talk about that in the scene with Milo, I
I felt like was very natural because I was kind of already experiencing that in my real life. And Milo is someone that I feel like he's aware of race in America. So it was honestly seamless and he's such a great person to act with in a scene. So
it it really i feel like it worked oh it was definitely very effective to put it lightly it worked sterling was talking about it being a a bit of a a healing a magical moment a a moment of healing not just for the two characters but for
and for the audience watching. It was this moment when he was, you guys are sitting outside of the Vietnam Memorial or whatnot, and he's telling you, you know, whatever, sometimes you're going to feel off balance and sometimes you won't.
you know, but whatever choices you make, you lean into them because you're going to make spectacular choices. You are spectacular. And you try to shrug it off. Again, he says, no, I'm repeating like you're spectacular. Like you should know that about yourself. And I was saying, I hope that my children, when they look back in life, when they hear their dad's voice, they hear things that are affirming who they are in the world.
and are buoyed by what they hear in terms of their father's voice in their head, right? And so I thought that that scene was beautiful in that way between you and Milo because, man, how delicious. For me as an actor, I got a chance to hear that from time to time as I'm moving through Randall's arc in life right now, knowing that somebody believed in me like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And, you know, this is something that you'll understand
You know, I lost my father young. You lost your father young. But some of those conversations that I wish I would have been able to have in college, I wasn't able to have with him. So in a way, being able to do that on screen with someone that I've known for years and trust, it was healing for me. And I don't even think I understand the implications that it probably has had on my life.
my development to be doing a role where you're like a unicorn, but people are pouring into you around you, on set and off set. - Yeah. - You know? - That's what's up, man. - Yeah, very true. - Lord, you forget sometimes, like this thing called acting or whatever, you know,
A lot of people, I said this before, they feel like it's make believe. And yes, it is. But it's also you invest yourself as fully into the given circumstances of the character so that you don't have to act. You can be right. And so like the difference sometimes between Niles and Randall, between Sterling and Randall, between Toby and Chris and between Rebecca and Mandy is very thin. Yeah. You know, if you're doing it that way. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. What else y'all got for this dude? Oh, you know what? Before I let you go, because I mean, hopefully, hopefully we'll get a chance to have you back later as we get into other storylines for y'all. Because I'm so curious, once you meet Beth, like,
That whole storyline, like for a second, I didn't know if they were going to put me in young age makeup. I was like, Brown, you look too old. Let's go ahead. Let this young man do his thing. Just wishing and hoping. But I'm sort of curious because like, because you were young and you were going through it or whatnot. Like talk to us a little bit about that whole Beth Randall storyline for you and
I mean, and what's our girl's name? Rachel. You and Rachel. I'm just curious, like, what that process was like, what that relationship was like, how you enjoyed it, et cetera. No, it was really cool. And, you know, Rachel's a fantastic actress. Yes.
And I believe when we started working together, I think I was 17 and she was 24 going on 25. Oh, yeah. You're like, OK. All right, Sterling. Let him finish. Let the young man eat. Come on. So for me, I always felt like, you know, she doesn't even know this, but.
she was always so mature and so talented. In a way, I felt like I was always trying to make sure that I was likable or I was mature. When we did do a scene together, that it was everything that she envisioned and then some. Yeah. So it was really cool then
I felt like that really portrayed well in the relationship. That sounds so much like Randall. You know what I'm saying? Just trying to please. Absolutely. And like every man who's ever met a woman.
But Niles, you have always been so wise beyond your years. You were never a 14 or 15 year old. I mean, you are, I would say your kindness and maybe like innocence, but like the level of talent, I think it speaks to like all three of Logan and Hannah. Like you guys all arrived so fully formed. You knew who these characters were, even though you were thrown in at the last minute. It's wild. And like you were thrust in this like
crazy situation and you all rose to the occasion in such like a spectacular way to bring that word back around. It's like I have such visceral memories of like, I mean, shooting the Super Bowl episode, us like being out in the cold on that roof together like...
I mean, we just like we lived some really crazy things with each other, but you were always so fully realized. You knew who you were as an actor, as a human. And it's just like it's so nice to see you now as as truly an adult. Yeah. But you've always been that.
I'm going to be honest, though. And I told this to Sterling. I was faking it till I made it. Well, we all are to a certain degree. Truly. We just admitted to that, too. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, bro. It's all good. No. It's trying my hardest. And if you are going to be directing, I'm also accepting scripts. I just want to put that out there. Yeah, we all can't wait to work for you, Niles.
Niles, if you want people to follow you on IG or anything, where can they find you? And if there's anything else they're supposed to be looking out for you for right now, let the people know. My name on Instagram is Niles Fitch. Forever comes out next year on Netflix. Exciting. Yeah, I'll be seeing you guys around. Awesome.
- Thank you, Niles. - Niles, thank you so much for joining us. Give him a gun flex real quick, 'cause Niles has been working on the guns. Go on, Sean. Go on, Sean. - No, I'm not doing that. No, no, no, no, no. - Niles, Niles, listen. Hold on, Niles, Niles. It's not vanity. We need people to subscribe on YouTube. - They can see it in forever.
Fair enough. He said they could see it forever. And Netflix next year. Make sure we watch forever so you can see Niles' gun show. Yeah, they'll see the gun show. Appreciate you. See, but Love's going to do it, and then Sterling was going to do it and completely kill him. I'm covering it up. I'm covering it up. No, look, he's covering it, and it's still there. You stop. You stop. You guys. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Niles Fitz. Let's give it up for him one more time. Thank you for joining us, brother. We love you so much. So much. We'll be right back with more. That was us.
I mean, how great was it to talk to Niles? Absolutely wonderful. And see him. Seeing everybody just grow up. You know what I'm saying? Like babies becoming grown-ass people is pretty damn cool. Yeah, he was 14 and now he's 23. He's a college grad. Lord have mercy. A grown man. And he's so unattractive. I know. That's the only thing he doesn't have going for him. It's going to hold him back. You know what I'm saying? It's tough. YouTube. You got to watch on YouTube. You'll see what we're talking about. Poor guy. If you've ever had a reason to like and subscribe, it's...
To see the interview with Niles. He's gained weight in his neck. Beautiful man. That is it for this episode. If you guys want to contact us, reach out to us in any shape, form, or fashion, you can email us at thatwassuspod at gmail.com. You can also leave us a message on our emotional support hotline. That number is 412-501-4122.
- Yes, do that and do what you said. - Yes. - Do both of those things. - Both of those things. - All of those things. - Like, subscribe. - Yeah. - Tell your friends. - Tell a homie, man. - Help grow the show. - Help us grow. - Tell one person. - We wanna stick around for as long as possible. - We wanna do this for the entirety of the series. - That's what we're trying to do. - So that we can keep saying. - That was us.
All right, and welcome to your favorite part of the episode, The Retread, brought to you by Peloton. Find your push, find your power with Peloton. What are we talking about in this episode? Well, we talked about two specific things. One, it turns out Niles Fitch is the most beautiful cast member of This Is Us. He's pretty handsome. Yes, he really is. An incredible human being with an incredible future ahead of him. Absolutely. And we talked about the fact that Sterling K. Brown could not go to Howard University for the fear of impregnating too many women. I was scared. I can understand. A lot of beautiful women. And...
- It sounds like Niles had a very similar experience visiting Howard. He said that that was mostly Niles and not the character. He was just elated to be there. - The smile on his face, like anytime his sister walked by, he's like, "Oh man, I'm excited." - He's in the right place. - He's a 17 year old kid who's amongst like, you know- - Star of a TV show. - Star of a TV show. That's a good point. You know, getting a little bit of attention. - I'm here working, ladies.
I'm here working. Who was coincidentally applying to colleges himself. So it's like he was living this shared experience with Randall of like, wow, could I go here? He also shared a really interesting thing about how both he and I lost our fathers at an early age. But like having Jack on the show, his relationship with Milo was a surrogate of sorts. Yeah, it was healing. For the father that wasn't there. It was healing for him. So it was really cool to hear that as well.
Right? Find your push. Find your power. With Peloton. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-da-dum, da-da-dum, that was us.