Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season three, episode three, Katie Girls. Everyone rallies around Kate as she undergoes egg retrieval surgery. Both Randall and Kevin go on personal journeys to connect with different parts of Jack's life. And Rebecca must decide between the comfort of her previous life or the excitement of a new one.
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Hello, friends. Hey, guys. Hey, Sterling. What were you just doing? We just had lunch. And Sterling literally just finished this episode. Good.
Did you even finish it? I'm close. I'm like five minutes from having a whole thing done. All right, we'll wait. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, go ahead. It's time to go. No, we'll just look at the camera. Time to go. Oh, you guys, there are lots of questions being answered in Katie Girls, right? I mean, I think we could just jump right into how the episode starts, and it's sort of a
flash, flash, flashback to the 50s with a doting wife and a husband who just comes home from work. The wife is just like putting dinner on the table, pouring a drink. Little girl sort of posted up in front of the TV and then clocking the dynamic between her parents, right? The good old days. The good old days. You know what I mean? And I think we come to realize that that is...
That's young Rebecca Pearson, Rebecca Malone. That's right. And her parents. The only Rebecca not played by you? The only Rebecca not played by me, but Taylor was watching it with me. He's like, oh, they did this before they casted your parents in real life. I was like, well, no, Elizabeth Perkins had been cast, but I don't think you'd met Tim Matheson yet. I'm not sure. Had we? No, I don't think we had. Because he looks nothing like Tim Matheson. There you go.
Just, you know. Yeah. We don't always nail it. Right? Can't win them all. You course correct when you can. We course correct. This is also the youngest version of Rebecca that you did get to play. Yes. In high school. And you're 16? 16, yeah. We got pigtails going on? We don't have pigtails. We just sort of have the flippy bob. Okay. Yeah. And bangs. With the hard bangs. With the hard bangs. Curtain bang. And, and,
There were braces at one point. They didn't end up using the braces. And they took the braces off. They took the braces away. A bridge too far. A bridge too far. Well, it's interesting because in that sort of evolution of things and you watching your mom at that time in schools, and it's still in schools today, like home economics is like a class that a lot of folks will take. And in that time, I guess it was dominated by the girls and shop class was dominated by the boys. And you sort of reminiscing on what you've seen in your household, your mom just sort of like...
waiting on everything for her dad. And you're like, you know what? I don't know if that's what I want to recreate for myself. So you're like, I'm opting out of this home ec thing. I'm going to go do me some shop class, right? She doesn't know what she's doing. She doesn't know what she's doing, but there's a nice boy over there. Let the saw do its thing. It'll take care of itself. And so you let the teeth do its thing. You're like, thanks. Appreciate it. And this dude, his name is Alan. And I think this is one of the things that you can't trust about a dude named Alan.
I don't know if it's A-L-A-N or A-L-L-E-N. I think it's A-L-A-N. You think so? I think so. Was that on the call sheet? I want to say it was. But that's why you can't trust them. You just don't know. You can spell it two different ways. And if I can spell your name two different ways and they sound the same, I don't know about you, sir. I don't know about you. Hot take. Hot take. Right there. Hot take. Zoom in. But he delivers quite the line. He says, they've never seen anyone like you. And they never will again. And they never will again. Right. Right.
It turns out that this young man is the same young man, not so young anymore, a little bit older, who we see on the doorstep. Just showing up kissing people. Kissing my mama. Yeah.
That's right. While my daddy was like, yo, I thought you left the jacket. I thought I was supposed to. That was a sign. But there's even like after the kiss and she comes in, it turns out that Alan's moved away for some time and he just showed back up to come back for the girl specifically. And even when she lets him in and after the kiss, there's a sort of look out into the horizon by Rebecca Malone as if like somebody else is supposed to be here. Yeah, I just feel...
Maybe something out there. You know, sometimes when you're being watched. Yeah. Yeah.
I know that. Yeah. Like someone's looking at you, but I think that was the... It's usually my four-year-old. I know that well. Get out! Stop staring at me! It's so quiet! So you guys, we find out, this is Mr. Allen. Allen's moved to London. He's working, is he a writer? He is. He's a journalist. He's been working at the Telegraph. He's working at the Telegraph, and he comes back. I don't know if we know it in that house, but you guys go to his parents' house? Yeah.
And his mom and dad seem really, really lovely. Lovely. Right? Another TV legend. Who is it? And his mom. Oh, from Malcolm in the Middle. Malcolm in the Middle. The mom from Malcolm in the Middle played by- Jane Kaczmarek. Is that Jane? That's Jane Kaczmarek?
Yeah. That's right. I knew I knew who that was. But you know, because this is us, weaves it all in. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. And had the beautiful sort of silver white hair. I really did like that. Real hair? I believe so. Probably. Yeah. And she was saying like, you know, I knew you picked a good one.
And like, I knew that you were somebody special when you said that you weren't going to follow him. To London. Interesting thing. You know what I'm saying? There was something that you wanted to do for yourself and you weren't going to chase some dude. I said, kudos. And so he comes back realizing that his life is unfulfilled with that. And then they ask, how's the singing going? He's like, you know,
It's going okay. Like, I sent my demo out to these people who represent. Do they represent Joni? It's her record label. They did her last album. To her record label or whatnot. So I'm thinking about going out and, like, paying them a visit or whatever. Don't do that. I don't know if it's A-L-A in there. Don't go to L.A. Come to New York. Don't go to New York.
Because I can introduce you to some people at, is it Time Out? Or is that something like that? Some bullshit. Yeah. I can write there. You can pursue your music. And we could go together. Right? So he's not crapping on the dream. No. But he's molding it to his own. Yeah. To his own liking. There you go. Right? And you can see Rebecca sort of like,
New York's not bad. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that. It's not what I had in mind, but... It could still work. Yeah. And it looks like you agree. Yeah, I don't disagree. You don't disagree. Yeah. There you go. That's even better. I don't disagree. Okay. So also at the top of this episode, because these two things will dovetail...
My man Jack is home. And the sort of dueling domesticity scenarios is his dad is just...
A prick. Yeah, he's emotionally, physically abusive. Abusive, right? And mom is running around, again, like a chicken with her head cut off, but there's not even sort of the satisfaction of like, oh, well, my man will appreciate this and my daughter's doing well and all this stuff. It's just...
heartache throughout the whole thing. She makes him a sandwich. She brings it to him. He's like, what is this, a pickle factory? I don't know if that's exactly what he said because that's a whole other thing. Pickle parade. Yeah.
Not much better. Throws the sandwich on the ground. It was like, make another one. And Big Jack is like, no, mom, leave it. Yeah, this ends right now. Like, this is the first sort of time he's like, dude, I've watched enough and I've been quiet because I don't, but like, no, you've gone too far. And he says, mom, you can pick it up
And stay, and I'll kill him, or you can leave. Yeah. Right? And that's it. You're a big man now. You come back from the war, et cetera. You notice he didn't get up out of his seat. Nope. You know what I'm saying? He's like, I'll say something. But like, dude, they just come back from the war, and he could probably beat the crap out of them. Yeah. Mom agrees to pack up her stuff, but she's like, we got to stop by the store. I got to...
take her a coffee yeah she's going to stay at a friend's house and she's like i can't arrive and i can't arrive let's get her a coffee and like and it's such a it's such a wonderful male female moment in terms of like all right get the coffee cake you know what i'm saying like she doesn't care but if that makes you happy that's what i mean like he's saying your friend won't care but if it makes you happy do what you gotta do yeah right so they um they go to get the coffee cake
And before we even know it, like, you guys have had your conversation, you and Alan, what have you. Yeah, his mom and I have this great conversation in the kitchen, and she's just spunky, and I like the rapport that she and Rebecca have. Like, there's definitely, she's...
She, I think, aspires to be like Alan's mom. Sure. Like she definitely like you see that she's powerful. She has a sense of authority. She's really confident. And the choices that she's made in her life as well, I think kind of mirror what the kind of woman Rebecca wants to be. And then Alan shows up in the kitchen in another scene and basically is like, sorry, I was going to try to wait at least like a week before I asked you to move to New York with me. And Rebecca basically says like, okay.
I'll go with you. Yeah. Right? That's right. So then she is like, we should celebrate. This calls for champagne. I'm going to go get some champagne. Okay. You stay here with your family. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Let me go do this. She goes to the grocery store where she runs into- A smack dab in the middle of Jack and his mom, right? Yeah. Looking for a coffee cake. And she's sort of like, wait, what are you doing on this side of town? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's not where he lives. Yep. And she's visiting Alan's parents. Yeah.
And he's like, you know, I'm with my mom or whatever. And they have this very like awkward, stilted sort of conversation where it's like they're both not saying what they really mean. They don't know each other. They don't know each other. But it's sort of like I don't want to stop talking to you and I don't know why. And that's probably not appropriate. And I'm I've just left the house with these people that I've. You say you never came. Yeah. He's like, I did.
I did. And I saw you on the doorstep with some guy. And you're like, oh, that was a dude from, you know, no big deal. We dated for a few years. Okay. And he's like, well, you know, I'll make sure you get your jacket. I said, you don't owe me an explanation, which is true. You don't have to explain. And you're just like, but like, I'm going to New York.
And I'm going to pursue my dream. And I'm really excited about it. And he's like, you should. You got a really great voice. And you're like, thanks. That was really well delivered. It was really well. Because Rebecca's kind of testing his waters with her dreams. Yep. How would this guy react to what I want to do? Exactly. And she goes, Jack? He's like, yeah. Do you have a dream? And he's like, wow.
No one's ever asked me. Nobody's really ever asked me that. And he starts talking about, well, I want to make sure my mom's okay. And I want a decent job and a wife and a family and, quote, a house that feels nothing like the one I grew up in. And he's like, does that sound all right? And then he says, bye, Rebecca. And she's standing there and he walks back towards his mom. And he turns around. And he stops to turn around to look. And Rebecca's gone. Yeah. It's a good scene. Yeah.
I feel like that's the question we should be asking. Huh? Do you have a dream? Like, instead of, like, I'm always, because I'm constantly around, like, bears and,
kindergarten parents. Yeah. And I'm like, instead of being like, so what do you do? Sure. What's your job? That's a good icebreaker. Yeah. You know, like, hey, what's your dream? That's a good one. You know, like, it's such an easy. Yeah. Like, and most importantly, if someone's never been asked that. Yeah. You know, like our last fan segment. Mm-hmm.
Write the book. Write the book. Come on, Noreen. It's in you. She writes all the time now. It's in you. Write the book. For sure. What would the book be about? I would hazard to say that the three of us are privileged to be living our dream. I was about to say, there is a lot of privilege just in the act of dreaming. Absolutely. But out of curiosity, was there ever any other dream? Or does where you are look a little bit different than what you dreamed of?
I don't think I ever could have imagined or dreamed of this. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I do. Truly, truly, truly. Like, oof, now I'm going to get emotional. It's like, yeah, the gratitude of how things have unfolded in life. It's like I didn't know to even dream of any of this. Yeah. Yeah. You? That's a good answer. You know what? I agree wholeheartedly. I wanted to act.
I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And I went to grad school for it and felt great. And I was like, well, I have all this theater training, so I'll probably do a lot of regional theater and hopefully I can do Shakespeare and maybe I'll get a chance to do Shakespeare in the park.
and maybe, maybe I'll get to do some Broadway or whatnot. And that was sort of like really cool. It's like, maybe I get a few guest spots here. If I can get the insurance, you know, to a certain amount, then I'll be covered that way, et cetera, et cetera. And then to be a working actor is a dream in and of itself. To pay the bills just by acting was sort of like, oh, if I can do that. Then like right before like this show happened, like to go from the OJ thing to this, it
was that was when it really sort of became like, oh, like I'm not just showing up and saying the lines, which is all I really wanted to do. But now people want to know what I think. And we have a podcast, like, you know, all this other stuff I'd never imagined this part. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? I just want it to work. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Same. - Yeah, same.
Yeah, I mean, I was perfectly content with my life in Chicago. Yeah. Being like a blue collar theater actor. Sure, man. Paying the bills, owning a house, working in the theater. Yeah. And then scooped off to New York out of nowhere. Yeah. Like a magic trick. And the same, and then- Was Lombardi took you too? Yeah, yeah. Okay. It was, I'm not kidding, it was a magic trick. I was doing The Artist's Way with a group of people.
And we were doing our morning pages. You were telling me, because the Artist's Way is kind of cool and funky for anybody who doesn't know about it. The Artist's Way is a 12-week workbook to recover your creative self. Gotcha. To break through any of the inner critic voices, to move past any of the blocks you have, to maybe following your dream. It doesn't have to be even artistic, but...
creativity is involved in everything. And it was written by this woman named Julia Cameron, and she is a famous kind of 12-stepper. Okay. And ironically, the book is 12... Not ironically. It's not ironically. It's 12 weeks. There's a reason. It's 12 weeks, and each creative recovery step is based on one of those steps. Okay. And they tell you not to do it alone. Yeah. They tell you... Do it in community. She says do it in a group. Yeah. Have you done it? No, no, but I know all about it. It's like hard, emotional...
soul searching and to do it by yourself. A lot of people, if you ask anyone who has tried it on their own, they have made it to week four. Okay. And they, and they put it up on the shelf because week four is where you have to like look back, dig deep and figure out why you're not doing what you want to be doing. Okay. And admit it to yourself. Okay. And try to move through it. Yeah. That's hard work. Um, but the, the, that, uh,
One of the things you do every day is you wake up in the morning and you do these morning pages, which is three pages of just like... You don't edit. You don't edit. You just blurt it all out. And it's essentially like a release valve for negativity or anxiety or whatever, doubt, whatever the thing is. I used it for several different things, including songwriting and all these things. But one day I was like, this is going to sound stupid, right?
But I feel-- And there's no-- This is arrogant. It was like, it's where you can say the things you can't say to people. But I feel like I'm done in Chicago. I'd only been there five years. I'm like, I feel like I've done what I can do here. And I feel like Broadway is the next thing. And there's no-- I had no prospects, no connections to New York, nothing. And I can show you the page.
And one week later, I got a phone call from a company manager of a play I was in, in Chicago. Yeah. Who said, hey, a friend of mine in New York is casting for a Broadway play. And she's looking for football player-sized actors. And she said, they're already in callbacks, but if you'll fly yourself out, they'll see you. And I flew out and met Tommy Kailh.
and read with Dan Loria. Tommy Kell, the director of Hamilton. Yeah. And Rach and I were four months out from getting married, and I got this part in this Broadway play. Living in Chicago. Wild. You want to hear the craziest part? Give it to me. I wasn't the only person in that artist's way group of 12 people to get a Broadway play. Who else? There was another, this woman named Elizabeth. Okay. Six months later, got a Broadway play.
Really? Out of nowhere. Like just manifesting things. People record, two people recorded albums. One person moved to Thailand to become a filmmaker. Like it was a magical group. But yeah, so the scope of like what's possible. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, I never dreamed. Yeah.
At every moment, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. No, I can't believe this is happening. There's something very powerful about putting internal sort of hopes, desires, dreams on paper. Because I remember, similar to you, I remember writing something recently. I was like, I did a lot of guest spots and I pop up on different shows. I said,
I was like, God, I want to do something like on Showtime or HBO or FX or like one of those sort of prestige network things where I get a really juicy part where people will remember it in the industry. I want to do something that actors look at and they say, oh, I like that guy. I like what he's doing in that show. About a year or so before O.J. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
That's powerful and real. Very real. It's really, really cool. So it's real, guys. If their dreams are out there, man, don't shy away from that stuff. You have to. Put it out there. Manifest it. And you don't have to tell everybody about your dreams because people will crap on them. You just need to tell yourself what they are. Yeah. Be honest. That's it. Be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Oh, I love those stories. Which is why we should ask that question. Yeah. We should ask each other. I agree. And if you want to share, you should share it. And if not...
Maybe you should think about it. And if somebody hits us up later on the information hotline or on our email, share your dreams. That'd be cool. That'd be really cool. More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.
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So after that, Rebecca goes back to Alan's home and confides in his mom that she has said yes to Alan to going to New York. She has this feeling about someone else and she doesn't know him anymore.
They have very different lives and very different dreams and ideas of the future. But she just has this feeling about him. And his mom is essentially like...
Like, you can't ignore that, right? Yeah. This woman, like, it's so, the writing and the way they've set up this relationship, like, it's very clear that back in high school, you even said early on, like, I had a good example. Yeah. Yeah. Not talking about your mom. No, no, her. Talking about this woman. Yeah. She's definitely an inspiration, I think, to her. But she has a lot of respect. And it's not, like, loyal to her son. No. Above. Right.
And also the sisterhood. She's like, this is a woman who has a lot of potential. Like, I wouldn't want to see her waste that. Even if it means being with my son. Yeah. Right? It could be a benefit to him. But like, I want to see you shine. That's right. So Rebecca finds Jack. She looks for the car. She knows his car at this point. And deduces he's at this particular house. And she just tells him.
Goes up and knocks on the door. Yeah. And he answers the door and it's, you know, he's dropped his mom off at her friend's house where she's going to be staying for the future. And they went out on a walk, but he's home. And it's so interesting because he sort of invites her in.
And then, like, kind of just, like, they have this conversation. He just, like, goes back to the kitchen and starts doing the dishes. He's sorry for the mess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, like, he's not, it's not like he's welcoming a guest with open arms and how you would sort of, like, not roll out the red carpet, but you would at least, you know, feel like, oh, this person who I have this connection with, we just went on a date or whatever. I don't know. Right. But he just sort of leads her to the kitchen to do dishes. And they have this, like...
Like, they just sort of stand there in silence. And, like, one washes the dishes and Rebecca, like, takes them and dries them. But it's comfortable. It doesn't feel... I mean, yes, there's things that are being unsaid. But the fact that you were able to be in each other's presence without having to talk. To say anything, yeah. That's, like, another level. Yeah, it was sort of like...
We don't have to have a conversation about anything right now. We don't have to address like the elephant in the room. Do we want to be together? Do we want to pursue this? We can just like, I just need your essence. Like I need to be around you. Mm-hmm.
And I don't know why. And I don't have to answer that right now. But I'm comfortable enough to just stand here and help you dry these dishes. That's all I need. But you did ask him a question, Rebecca. Yeah. What'd you ask him? I don't remember. What did I ask him? You asked him if he wanted to go for a drive. Oh, yeah. At the end of the episode. At the very end. At the very end. And you're like, where do you want to go? And she's like, you said, where do you want to go? California. To L.A. Yeah. And he's like, he said, yeah. Let's go to Los Angeles. Let's go to Los Angeles.
and you guys keep doing the dishes or what have you. But it's also, there was no balking at it. There was no like, you want me to just pick up and go to like, he's like, I will do what you want.
Like, I think that is the clear message in terms of the arc of the episode. That was the answer she needed. It was like, this is how they got together. Yeah. Because you said it before earlier, I'm thinking about going there. And my man was like, ah! Only New York. New York, New York. LA's fine, but New York? Yeah. Way better. And you said, I'm going to take a drive. I'm going to go to LA. He's like, yeah.
Well, because in a passive way, it's what Jack wants too, which is to get as far away from here as possible. It's very true. Yeah. Once his mom is set up, I think he's good to go. Yeah. Done, done, done. Let's roll. That's a great arc. I love all of that. We got Kev's movie premiere? Yeah. Yeah.
Everybody is just, I love seeing us in the audience just overcome with emotion. Now, I know you're talented. Was that your tier? They're all my tiers. That one was yours? They're all mine. The one tier, I love it. I love the single tier. Sterling can just pull it up, just to sit there. Yeah, and watch a fake movie. Enraptured. And I would like everyone to notice, it's camera side. Of course!
No, Sterling's like, what, you need the left or right? Where are we? Right? Oh, you're over here? Okay, good, good. Got it, got it. I will give you an anecdote. I was doing, shooting something. Before this podcast, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. Before this podcast is over, we're going to ask you to do it on this podcast. Maybe. It doesn't work like that, to be perfectly honest with you. You still have to get there. There has to be something emotionally going on. Oh, we'll get there. But I was doing a scene, and I was shooting it in Paris.
And makeup people, they're very sweet. And they're like, if you need, what's the stuff they blow in your eye? Like people do? Oh, yeah. It's like the, it's menthol. Menthol, yeah. They're like, if you need the menthol, what have you. And like, there's a part of me that was like, you must not know who I am. Yeah.
Yeah. But I was like, have you, do you use it? Have you ever, listen. No shade, no shade. No shade to people that do. Whatever you need to get to. But like most of us were just like, we had enough on the page or in our lives or what have you. I've had the menthol before. It doesn't help. It just like, it just makes your eyes feel like they're burning. Yeah, it's not.
That's not a natural, that's not an emotional tear. It's just like my eyes are irritated. It just looks like you have been crying. Totally. Everybody, we're all sort of like. No, no, it's all on the page. It's all on the page. The K stands for crying. Sterling. Sterling crying brown. But we're all so moved. And you can like, I love Justin because he's got this look like, you guys like him? Yeah. Like you're impressed? Yeah.
This is going well. I thought people wouldn't take me seriously. Kate and Randall have this conversation about the IVF because Randall's sort of late to the whole thing. But he also shares concerns similar to his mom about this can be very dangerous. Are you sure you've thought this all the way through, et cetera, et cetera? And she's like, yeah. She says something about...
It becomes really strangely contentious because she's like, you know, if it comes to that, I could always adopt, you know. If it comes to that. Right. And he's like, adopting doesn't mean anything. Because he's sort of fixated on this phrase of like having a piece of dad. And Kate thinking she's the only person that can share a piece of dad. And she's like, bro, that's not what I mean. You know, like...
Like, I'm not trying to do it to make you feel a particular way or what have you, but he is feeling a particular way, especially because Chi Chi just told him, like, you don't even pay attention to anything that's going on. I was like, he's catching strays left and right. And he's sort of in his feelings, right? But she kind of puts him in his place. - Yeah. - It's like, look, man, it wasn't easy for me.
Like it meant it was easy for you. You did wind up adopting after you had two children, you know, the old fashioned way or whatnot. Like get off of my case. I'm sorry that it was so easy for Beth to get pregnant. It hasn't been easy for me to get pregnant. This is the only way I can. Right. So he's like, oh, he's kind of like, you know, being quiet now. You see him later talking to his wife. All right.
I think he's talking to the councilman before, upset that the maintenance people didn't come. Councilman winds up hanging up on him. So he's sort of feeling crappy there, but then he's talking to Beth about the whole thing and she asked if he apologized.
And he's like, why do I need to apologize? Like, we talked, you know, kind of, but not really. And there's... We have a group text thread. You have a group text thread with you? Me, Miguel, and Beth. It's mostly GIFs, but...
Jeff's talking about how messed up your family is. It's pretty jacked, yeah. And I think you guys sort of represent the audience or a portion of the audience is like, will these people ever get over themselves? And the answer's like, eventually. That's got to be a fun text chain. It's got to be a lot of fun. And so she even takes it upon herself to just call Kate. And hands you the phone. I have Randall for you.
Right. And Kate just got these flowers from Kev, like a big bouquet. And she sort of interprets like this is the kind of thing that you give somebody like as they're about to pass away. They look like flowers for someone who's never going to see flowers again or something like that. Right. And so she's about to go on the surgery and she's like, I don't have time for this conversation because he never quite gets to an apology. Sorry. You know, he's like, you know, I said uttered some utterances that maybe shouldn't have been uttered.
And I'm utterly, she's like, I got to go. Yeah. And so he tells, and he can tell that she's scared. And I think one of the beautiful things about the family is like when somebody is in crisis, they respond. Yep. You know what I mean? Whether it's Kev, Randall, or Kate. They show up. Like when they sent somebody, and Rebecca, for that matter. We're like, still to this day, when you show up at the doorstep. To hug her. Like right after the, yeah.
Folks show up. So he decides, like, you know, Beth is saying, like, you know what Migs also says is that you guys like to overreact. And he's like, I'm flying to L.A. to go see my sister. He's gone. There you go. He gets to Los Angeles.
And she's in surgery already. Toby and Kate, he's already... Kate has given you permission to remarry if she passes away. You consent to marry somebody. But not to Sharon in HR or whatever it was. Yeah, not with Sharon or what have you, but somebody who's less interesting, but fairly safe. But it is one of those moments that you try to make light of
But there are concerns. And I take it for granted. I've been put under three times, three or four times, and I never give it a second thought or whatnot. Because I always think it's like, oh, it's just they put you to sleep or whatnot. But the caltration of it is real specific because there is this idea that you cannot wake up. And I think the caltration becomes a little bit more complicated when you're dealing with a plus-size individual. So you may collide with things, but there's still...
She says it in a real abundance of grace so that you know if something happens, I want you to be happy, which is sweet. And you're like, nothing's going to happen, which is what you're supposed to say because you don't want to think about anything other than that.
She's in surgery. He's sitting. He's waiting. Randall comes in. And I remember this a lot, Chris, because this was like our first scene. Yeah. Three seasons in. Three seasons in. And it's just Sully and Brown doing our thing. And we're both dealing with anxiety and depression. Your knees bouncing and you're trying to get it to stop.
I see teeth grinding as my thing. And you look at me, is that a manifestation of your anxiety? I say, yeah. And he's like, I'd never think about it to see you. And I say, you know, we all cover. We all got to be strong, what have you. And then you tell me about the antidepressants. And I was like, bro, you're like one of the funniest people. I never would have imagined it. And you're like, you know, that's being a man, etc.,
And in the midst of sort of this vulnerable moment of these two guys admitting that, like, you know, we are not... Dissimilar. Dissimilar in that way. And, like, while we both try to put our best face forward, whether it's through humor or, like, taking care of things, et cetera, et cetera, nobody's perfect, right? And I think what I loved about it is, like,
Like when there is that shared admittance of imperfection, it sort of allows us to be like, oh, I'm okay to be not all right. It's okay not to be okay because he's a good dude and he's doing all right. And he's a good dude and he's doing all right. And it's kind of like, okay, I'm okay to not be okay. Yeah. Right. Doctor comes in.
It's taking a little bit longer for Kate to wake up. To clear the anesthesia. To clear the anesthesia. But she's still going to be fine. We'll give you an update when it's all said and done. You're like, okay. And...
So you kind of have to dovetail all these things because they all sort of tie together. But I want to jump in just a little bit to Kate's anesthesia. Yes, because while she's under, there's this beautiful montage where she sees herself as a baby with her brothers, like at the hospital.
And then suddenly she sees, like, she's at the ice cream parlor, right? Yep. Where she sees all the other two versions of herself, right? That's right. Her, like, littlest version, her teenage version. The teenager comes first. Yes, yes. Exactly. And she's sort of like, oh, sorry, she's at the hospital. Heckling. She's at the hospital. Yeah, like, you want to have a baby? Like, you're the least...
Put together person. What is wrong with you? Yeah, you are not supposed to be a mom. You're not supposed to be a parent. And then we see her and the smallest version of Kate and Jack is there. Yeah. And they're all together. They all eat the, what is it, banana? Yeah.
Banana cream ice cream? Yeah, the banana pie ice cream. The one that she wanted for her wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's really sweet. And you sort of understand the correlation between her being here and seeing her dad and sort of making peace with the different versions of herself. Yeah.
And not clearing the anesthesia yet, not ready to wake up. It's like she has this unfinished business. Yeah. And she finally has to tell Jack and the other Kates that like she does have to go. I got somewhere to go. Yeah, I have somewhere to go. I have somewhere to be. I'm not like ready to be here with you guys yet. Even though there's such a pull, there's such a draw for her to be there with her father. Yeah. And these other versions of herself where she feels sort of really comfortable, right? Yeah.
And she, of course, then wakes up. She tells the teenage kid, I know you're going through a tough time right now, but it's not going to last forever. Right. She tells the youngest version of yourself, you're going to make earlier, like you're going to marry a guy. Is he going to be like something? He's like, no, he's going to be even better. And he's going to be tall and he's going to be really funny. It's going to be great. Right.
And it's this pull because I think what the anesthesia represents as far as the doctors and their legitimate concern for what her future is, is like it's a liminal space of do I decide to come back?
Or do I decide to cross over? Right? And in that, it's like, you know what? There's more for me to do here. I'm not ready yet. Eventually, I'll see y'all. Yeah. And when I see y'all, it's going to be wonderful. But, like, it's not my time. Yeah. You know what I mean? And she wakes up. Yeah. It was really sweet. And she sees...
She sees Toby. She sees Toby. And she sees that Randall's there. She sees Randall. And basically tells him, like, it's the most dad move ever, that he flew all the way across the country. She's like, what? You're here? Like, she can't believe that she wakes up and you're there. To say, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Because he had to say it to her face. And after we have just seen dad agree, although we haven't seen the trip, to go to Los Angeles with you. Yeah. Like making the move to the West Coast. So he just did that as well. And they got eight eggs. They got eight eggs. Yeah. It's a big one. It was a very successful egg retrieval surgery. Yeah.
They got eight eggs. And yeah. And so the journey continues for them. The journey continues. Their fertility journey continues. Because it's interesting because right before she was about to go into surgery and while she's doing that, Toby will go ahead and farm some of your semen or whatnot. And you're like, I can't wait. That's why we were hugging. Remember she asked. That's right. We were hugging. Yeah, my arm was around you. This is unfortunate timing. Yeah, that's unfortunate timing.
So all those things are happening. Then for Randall, too, he goes home and he winds up telling Beth, you guys help me out on this because I'm a little fuzzy. You didn't get to. Okay, got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. Well, what we didn't see earlier in the episode was that Beth was waiting for a proposal of hers to get approved by her boss at work. Yes.
And when she arrives at work that day, that next day, in anticipation of him sort of reviewing her proposal, she gets unceremoniously fired, like out of the blue, and basically is just told that she is less valuable than two other colleagues. Yeah. Yeah.
Beth has this flashback to William when William was around and he basically like has this beautiful analogy and says that, you know, Beth is sort of like the bass and like a jazz quartet, right? She's the quietest, but the people who really know music, who really love and really listen, like they're the ones that are listening for the bass. She holds the beat. Yeah, you hold the beat.
Soloist gets all the glory, but you're the one who keeps it all together. Exactly. Yeah. And then, you see, eventually your time will come when you get to solo.
Yes. And when that time comes, you better make sure your husband, basically, to use a Chris Rock euphemism, you make sure that brother plays the tambourine when it's time for him to play the tambourine. Because it's your time to be out front. And when that happens, don't twiddle your ring. Yeah, don't twiddle your ring. He did mention that. Yeah. And pretend like you forgot why you got married. There you go. There you go. So all of this to say, when Randall flies back to see Beth,
And says that he has made a decision, that he wants to do something, something concrete to really help. He says he's going to run against the councilman. Yeah. And just as Beth sort of takes that in, she admits to him that. I just lost my job. Yeah. She's been fired. So this is like the beginning of one of my favorite periods in the show. Yeah. Yeah.
It's the beginning of a period of Beth and Randall sort of being at odds with one another. Yeah, it's a tiny chasm that's sort of like...
We feel the first break with them. But there's also, we have this running joke through the first two and a half seasons. And what does Beth do again? And even to a certain extent, and what is trading weather future? They both do things that... Their jobs are both a little ambiguous. They're a little ambiguous, right? So I think the writers are like, we want to give them things that people can sort of hold on to. That give them a sense of purpose and purpose.
what their dream is. Right. Right. Yeah. Randall's definitely not living his dream. Nor is Beth. Nor is Beth. Right. Neither of them are. Like family life is great. Is a dream. Kids are great, et cetera, et cetera. But in terms of what they want to give their lives to. Right. There's something lacking. Right. Yeah. We'll be right back with more. That was us.
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Google is a trademark of Google LLC. So now we have Kev and Zoe. Yes. And he's about to get interviewed. By Terry Gross. By Terry Gross, whoever that dude is. And Zoe's like, he's not a dude.
She's a lady and she's awesome. Right? And he's like, oh, okay. And she did. It's because of Ted Gross that she wants to come as well. Zoe wants to come and check out. Suddenly she's changing her tune about spending time with Kevin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going on this press run. This is a serious interview. There you go. It's a serious thing.
And Kev goes, meets Terry. Terry Gross, you're great in the show. Yeah, she's great. You're really, really wonderful. Like, she took it super seriously. It felt so real. She was totally herself. And when she meets...
Kevin and Zoe. Zoe admits to being a big fan because she's a documentarian. Like what allows you to ask these questions or whatnot? You know, I try not to underestimate my guest, right? She says something else. - So I'm curious? - I'm curious. - And I don't underestimate people. - There you go. And I think she said that in a way that Zoe and the audience and the way in which Kevin is set up, like from the beginning,
Kevin is the most consistently underestimated of his brothers and sisters. You know what I'm saying? Yep. And Dan frequently gives him some of the coolest things to do because of that. Like, you think I'm only capable of this. Yeah, you think I just sort of exist on the surface. But there are many, many, many layers to the onion. Exactly. So we get to the interview.
Terry's interviewing him and she's talking about how complex and layered the character is, that he's playing or whatnot. And as she's saying it about the character, I think we're also hearing it about Kevin. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because Kevin is more than what meets the eye. And she said your father was in Vietnam, right? Were you able to tap into his experience for this portrayal?
And you see him sort of have this moment. Yeah, he stumbles on the answer a little bit. You know, not really. I guess he didn't really talk much about it, you know? Yeah. And then Terry sort of bails him out a little bit saying like, you know, men of that generation probably found it difficult to talk about unless they were talking to other veterans. Yeah. Right? And he's like, maybe. And there's a flashback in the middle of the interview where young Kevin is with his dad and...
And they're at some store. They're at like a model airplane toy store or something. And Kev starts sort of like playing war. He's like firing a hole or something. Toy gun. Toy gun. Jack is trying to get him to stop or whatnot. But Kev's just having a good time doing his thing, playing around. And then Jack gets serious. He's like, stop. Raises his voice a little bit, gets into his face. Yeah, very stern. And then Kev, back to the interviews, was like, I don't really know anything about it.
You know? And Terry's like, that's okay. It's sort of an awkward pause in the interview, but, you know, she tries to steer it onto its way. You can see the wheels turning in his head, though. He's like, wait, I don't, I've never really thought about this. I don't know much about my dad's service. I never asked those questions. Why didn't I ask those questions? Why didn't he talk about it? I mean, it's like you just saw all of this sort of on his face. Yeah. So present day, Kev's got a board up.
As one is prone to do. Yeah. You know. He has a Vietnam board. To let a TV audience know that I'm thinking about something. There you go. And Zoe is like, what is this supposed to be? He's like, it works on Homeland, right? With little strings connected to pictures that mom and dad was able to save from the fire. Right? And that you ultimately give him to check out.
And you can see there's another flashback to where his dad, after that scene in the store, comes into the room and he goes, you know, I don't talk about the war a lot. It was hard. A lot of hard things happened. So why I see people play this game, it's not so fun to me. Right? You know, I'm sorry I did that. But then he says, would you like to ask me anything? Yeah, do you have any questions? And Kev's like...
Kev, it's interesting because Ryan and I have this happen all the time.
where I'll go, did you ask your mom X, Y, Z? And she's like, nope. I was like, well, why not? And she's like, I know that would have been the first thing that you did, Sterling. But sometimes what she might say could be so uncomfortable that I don't really want to cross that bridge to begin with. Like, I'm afraid of what I might hear, and it may be uncomfortable. And I get the sense from Kev, it's like, if he wanted to tell me,
He would have told me. Yeah. And then I should just sort of leave it alone. I'm curious, like, how do you guys tend to operate in terms of your own negotiation of like, if there's a question that you have about something in the world with an individual, are you apt to ask that question? Even if the person may seem reticent or do you just say like in their own time, they will divulge what they want to divulge? It depends on the relationship, but I feel like I tend to err on the side of in their own time. Okay. Yeah, I freeze up.
You do? Like, I don't know how to ask. I feel like I'm imposing. I feel like, yeah, like it's none of my business. Even my close friends, close family. Yeah, maybe it's more, obviously, it's like a self-pity type thing more than anything else. I don't know what to say. It's none of my business. You know, that type of kind of locking up. I don't know. It's just...
Part of the wiring, part of the way growing up. You know, so my mom, and she's not probably wrong, because I would ask my mom these questions early on. She would tell me things about how she would go on the road with these bands. Yeah.
And how she had to like, you know, I kept a pistol. Like my mom was like, oh yeah, she didn't play around. And if I ever asked her, what did you do with the band? And she's like, don't be nosy.
And I was like, you're the one who's talking about it. I just want to know like what kind of stuff. Well, it's because she didn't want to talk. She's a lady and you're left to infer whatever you're left to infer. But I will always ask for the specific question and she's like, none of your business. I was like, well, quit talking about it, Holly. - You brought it up. - You know what I'm saying? - That's great. - I actually find, what is it that I find? Because this is probably slightly different than you guys.
And I find like you guys could probably employ it too. I find, by and large, that when you are vulnerable with people and willing to share aspects of your life that folks don't frequently share, that they are prone to reciprocate and con. Right? You're very good at it.
You are very good at checking in and just coming out with it. Like I've seen you do it. You've done it with me. Sure. I've seen you do it with other people. And you do it in a way where there's no –
None of your questions are leading. You have a natural curiosity. Yeah. You do. I do, yeah. About others, about the world around you. And it's really beautiful. It's one of my favorite things about you. Thank you. But so I think it comes maybe it's more effortless for you. Okay. Than it would be for me. But I agree. I wish, I want to employ more of that. Yeah. I'm okay to be vulnerable, but it's,
And not saying that you have the expectation of someone else then being vulnerable back with you. But yeah, I too sort of share the idea of like, I'm a little hesitant because I don't want someone to ever feel obligated either. There are very few people I know, friends included, who I don't have the response, like in my head, them thinking, what makes you think we're close enough for you to ask me that? Really?
which is my own thing. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I feel that. So like this is really good because you guys can sort of vibe with Kev and I'm sort of like in the Zoe place because Zoe says to him, she goes, why are you helping me?
And he's like, I'm a curious person and I'm trying not to underestimate people. Right? That's what she says. Something to that extent. It's still all feeling a little phony to me. Is it really? Yeah, because she's jumped in because she gets to meet Terry Gross. Not because she's trying to support Kevin. I feel like that's the... And then she takes Terry Gross's quote about Terry Gross and applies it to herself. Yeah.
Like, get out of here. - Well, our heckles are already up a little bit with Zoey because of what Beth said to Kevin. - And I trust Beth. - She's complicated and she's, I do too. When Beth gives you a warning, you heed Beth. - I trust Beth too, but I also had the feeling that like, while her motives for going in the first place were to meet Terry Gross,
Something uncovered. Like in terms of the through line from last week in terms of why doesn't anybody take me seriously? I think we're seeing Zoe begin to take him seriously. He didn't charm himself out of the question. He actually got stuck in a thought and realized I don't have an answer. I think she was intrigued by it.
Yeah, that's her world. That's how she operates. Yeah. So now my job is to excavate and figure out what's happening in that whole thing. Right.
It's another good episode to tell. It's a really, yes, it's an interesting one. It's setting up a lot. You know, we've talked about the Vietnam storyline and sort of, I just love how we just slowly piece it up. We get a little bit of things, right? Kev, I mean, it turns out Jack did speak to his son about it briefly. He spoke to Rebecca about it briefly. And in speaking about it, he speaks, I don't like to speak about it.
- Yes. - Like the lesson that like the overall, the through line is like, I'm telling you this 'cause I don't wanna talk about this. - Yeah. He had his boundaries. - He had his boundaries. - That's for sure. - Yeah. - Yeah, so it didn't really allow for the conversation to go forward. - Right. - You know, people, his son, his wife respected that. Like, okay, that's territory we don't cross with dad. - There you go. So, you know, 'cause I'm even curious too.
I don't even know if it comes up in the cross-country trip, but we're going to find out because they're about to drive to L.A. Randall is about to run for office, which is, or he thinks he's going to run for office. We'll see how that whole thing plays out. You guys come out of the surgery. You got eight eggs. We're all very hopeful that everything goes well there. Yeah. That's where we are. And Kevin and Zoe are going to embark on. Well, we already saw them on the plane at the AMC.
end of season two. Exactly. They're going to start putting the pieces together. So that's going to be... Finding some of Jack's buddies that are in the photo with him from Vietnam that they have. Because he sends the email. That's right. Sends the email. I also like... I feel like 18 episodes for us was just right. And what I mean by that, something's always happening in the episode. You know what I'm saying? And it feels very sort of like, ooh,
I can't wait to see what the next part is. It's not like we're just standing still like a soap opera. You can sort of jump in. No shade to how they used to be because those were very comforting. But it's like, you got to watch the show or else you'll be like, Vietnam? Hard show to syndicate. Very hard show to syndicate. Let's do a fan segment. Our favorite, favorite part of the show. Let's do it.
So in terms of like how we're going to answer these, should we do this on camera? Let's do it on camera. Please allow me to host. Go. Yeah. If you don't mind, contestants. Apologies. Welcome to the fan segment, our favorite portion of the podcast today. We are talking to Ashley Mims. Hi, Ashley. Hello.
Ashley is going to be competing against my co-hosts, Sterling and Mandy. Here we go. On their This Is Us trivia. Oh, boy. And Ashley, what we've decided is, I've got a series of questions here. Some easy, some medium level, and some hard. Oh, wow. I'm definitely failing. But.
Since we don't have buzzers, what the buzzer system is going to be is as soon as I am done reading the question. Yeah. As soon as I'm finished reading the question. You have to finish the question. Okay. You say your name to buzz in. Okay. Okay. So whoever says their name first. I'll take a quick mims. Okay. Okay. And...
Mizzle? Mizzle. You should say one syllable and I should say one syllable because otherwise Mims comes out quick. Brown and more. Brown, more. Okay. Are you ready for your questions? Yes. Let's do it. Here we go. Okay. So all of these questions are from season three, episode three, entitled Katie Girls. I'm legitimately nervous. Okay.
I will be embarrassed. I'm excited. Ashley, ready? I believe Ashley is going to smoke you and I'm going to be embarrassed for us. Yeah, you should be. Here we go. Question number one. Please only buzz in after I'm finished reading the question. Where does Rebecca run into Jack when she says he never showed up for their second date? Brown. Grocery store. That is correct. Wow. You are fast on the draw too with the fake buzzwords. No, thank you. Sterling, if you answer all of these. I won't.
We got two very competitive cast members here. Question two. What surgery is Kate undergoing in this episode? More egg retrieval surgery. I'm going to give that to you. You buzzed in a little early. Please let me finish reading the question.
I didn't give you the chance to catch your breath, but I thought the question was answered. Okay. Question three. In a flashback sequence, Jack gets mad at young Kevin for playing with what item? More. Grenade. Also correct. Come on, more. Come on, Mandy. You guys are smoking me. No, no, no, no. You got this. You can catch up. Okay. Now the questions get to a medium level of difficulty. Okay.
This is where I fail. Before Kate goes into surgery, she tells Toby that if she dies, she wants him to move on, but she forbids him to move on with which two people? Oh, more. Madison and Sharon, the woman he works with. That is correct. I forgot Madison. I used Sharon. That is correct. All right. I hope someone else is keeping score. It's three to one. Get on track. You got this. Come on. You got it. You got it. You got it.
This is a hard format for a trivia show. We're figuring it out. Question two in the medium category. When Jack is moving his mom out of her house and over to her friend's house, away from his abusive father, what does Jack's mom say she has to stop to get? Mims. Brown. Sorry, that was Mims. Let's give it to Mims. Go ahead, Mims. Go ahead, Mims.
She has to get a cake for her friend. That's right. It's a coffee cake. Mem's on the board. Yes. Mem's is on the board. It's a coffee cake. I just want to be clear. Yes, it was coffee cake. That's very specific, Sterling. But yes. Go for it. Question three. At the end of the episode, Rebecca asks Jack if she wants to go for a drive. Where does she ask him to drive to? Mem's. Go on, Mem's.
She wants to go to California. That's right. Specific city? She... I know she wants to...
Oh, what city? It's not San Francisco. Los Angeles. Yay! Good call. You got it. I got it. You good. You good. Okay. Where are you from, Mims? I am from Birmingham, Alabama. All right. Come on now. All right. In Birmingham, is it Roll Tide or is it Tigers? It's Roll Tide. It's Roll Tide. I got you. Okay.
Here we go. That was a dangerous question to ask. Well, I said it's either one or the other. But even to ask it. To whom, question four, to whom does Rebecca confess she might have a feeling about someone other than Alan? Brown. Okay. That was Brown. Alan's mama. Yes. That's right. Yes.
All right. I don't know what the... Someone give me score? Mandy Moore's got three. I got two. Manum's got two. Got it. There you go. All right. These are the hard ones, y'all. Yeah. Wow. These are worth more points, right? These are worth two points. These are worth two points. Good. Okay. You just made that up. I'm the host. I can do that. You can. Except for you. These are only worth one. Okay.
No more talk back. Okay, question one. What's Alan's line to Rebecca which he says both when he first meets her and when he shows up on her doorstep? More. Vamps. Go ahead. He's never seen... Sorry, how...
I've never seen anything like it. That was a timer. Sorry, time's up. He tells her that they've never met anyone like her and they never will. And when he shows up at the door, he says the same thing.
I would give it to him. They've never seen anything like you before and they never will again. There you go. Okay, okay. That's why I do two points to each. They both get two points. I was going to say the same thing. You get none. I was getting there, but you caused me. Yeah, well, your time ran out, ma'am. I'm sorry. My God. These are the rules. You signed off on this at the beginning. There are no rules. All right, question number two. What color is Jack's car when
When he drives to Rebecca's house, when he sees Alan on her doorstep. Mims. Yes. I think. I hope I'm right. Is it blue? You are correct. I think so. Yeah. All right, Mims. I can tell if it's gray. It's a light blue, right? Yeah, it is. It's like a sky-ish blue. Nice one, Mims. Nice one. Right on. Question three. Who does Beth have an imaginary conversation with after getting fired? Mims. Who's that?
I'll give it to you, Mims. Okay. William? That's correct. That is correct. All right. Two more questions. Okay. Okay. I hope someone's keeping track. What city did Alan ask Rebecca to move to three years prior to which she rejected the proposal? Brown. Mims. That was Brown. London. Okay. Last question. Jolly London town, mate. This is the last question. It is worth five points. Here we go. Oh, wow. This is it. Let's do it.
When Toby and Randall are sitting in the waiting room at the hospital, what word do they both say while hitting their heads and chest? Brown. Man. That is correct.
- I was in the scene, it's not fair. - It's true, it's true. And you just watched it, also not fair. - Yeah, and he just finished watching it. - Okay. - This was so much fun and I'm not sure if it was totally fair at all, but thanks for being here and testing this out. - Ashley, you dominated, thank you so much. - Thank you, I really enjoyed this. Like I said, I've watched a few times
And I do still intend to send you all an email or voice note. Yes. Because I just love the show and it's just resonated with me on so many different levels. Please do. Please do. Yes, I still will do that. Yes. Well, thanks for being on this journey with us. Aw, thank you. We love talking to you too. We love you, Ashley. This was an absolute blast. Yes. Take care of Birmingham for us and we'll see you or hear from you sometime real, real soon. God bless you. Okay. Take care. Mims out. Bye. Bye.
Guys, that was our first quiz. That was fun. What should we call this? Do we just call it guest quiz show? Interactive fan segment? Interactive fan segment. Trivia. Trivia. We need something cooler. I think that's my new favorite fan segment. Yeah. The two Aries in the room. Yeah.
Well, you don't get to be the host each time. One day you have to do it. I'm going to be the host next time. Okay. Randy gets the rules. I'm not going to make the rules. There you go. This one's worth no points. Yeah. None if your name is Chris Sullivan. You get zero points, even if you answer correctly. This has been another episode of That Was Us. Thanks for joining us, friends. Absolute joy. If you guys...
If you haven't done it by this time, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. You can see us on YouTube or anywhere where you catch your podcasts. If you want to share any thoughts, feelings, reflections on your experience with the show, please hit us up at thatwasuspod.com.
Right? Uh-huh. At gmail.com. At gmail.com. Or you can leave us a message on the emotional support hotline at 412-501-3028. Again, that's 412-501-3028. There you go. We'll see you next week. Take care, everybody. Bye, friends. Bye. Bye.
That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.