Lessons, Layers, and Love | "Still There" (S2E4)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing Season 2, Episode 4, Still There. When Deja refuses to wash her hair, Randall begs Beth to let him solve the problem his way. And after his injury, Kevin Fears' history will repeat itself.

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Gang, how we doing today? Hello, friends. How's it going? Hi. I'm having a cookie. Chris is eating a cookie and having the time of his life. He living his best life. This season has been fun. It's like I'm rediscovering. I know everything that happens in the end game, but I think because the later seasons are probably fresher in my head, going back through and watching it, it's kind of like, oh, snap.

That happened. I feel like seasons two, three, and four are going to have the most, like, obviously, because they were so long ago, they're going to have, like, the most revealing information for us as viewers re-watching it. I think you're right. Because one is ingrained in, like, just the deep recesses of my brain, and obviously the later seasons, because they're just so much closer. Yeah. But this, too, yes, I was like, wow, I remember...

I remember this episode. Yeah. I remember filming this episode. You do? I do. I remember because, you know, it's a tricky situation. And we can get into the logistics of it. Oh, boy. But, you know, I will just say it was tricky because...

of the racism storyline and wanting to be mindful of a young person and be respectful and make sure everybody was comfortable because Lonnie, sweet Lonnie, had to walk in on my mother and I having this fight where I essentially call her out for being a racist and really ostracizing Randall from Kevin and Kate and...

It just, it's a very delicate conversation. Nowadays on set, we have things that are actually mandated called intimacy coordinators, where when scenes are, it's usually physical intimacy. And I don't think we had this back then, but I imagine like if a scene like this happened today on set, that that coordinator would probably be brought in. Maybe. There were some things.

When a child's involved? I guess it was definitely couched in sensitivity. And that's what I mean is it was handled very well. Sure. But I just remember it being like, you know, it wasn't just like a scene that you're willy-nilly shouting these things out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for everybody involved. And so we wanted to find the most respectful way

where nobody felt out of place. But yes, we can jump right into it. - Let's dive right into it. Yeah. - Yeah. In the past, there is a snowstorm that is brewing in Pittsburgh. You see the family at the video store, which I remember. - Oh man. - I think I have some good pictures I can put up on social from this time. - Do you really? - Yeah, but it's just like, this was, you know, when you're shooting a show like this,

You're on location some of the time. You're on stages. Randall's house, Randall and Beth's house, Jack and Rebecca's house with like the young people. Well, with every iteration, they just would sort of change it for whatever timeline we were in.

we were in, those were like permanent sets on stages. And then you'd have these swing sets as they call them, where it might be, you know, a vehicle that's on like, you know, a green screen and you're doing a scene in a car or whatnot.

And in this particular case, they built this faux blockbuster, this faux video store that doesn't exist anymore. That is such a relic, I think, of all of our childhoods. And so I just have some funny pictures of the kids looking at, what are any of these movies? It was so, of course, because they're...

nine yeah they had no idea any of the references of like look who's talking and you know so it was like really cute they just kept asking Milo and I like what is this like and also what is it a store a video cassette like all of it it was always fun to kind of teach them it's amazing that they have no clue did you rent movies was that a big like are you kidding me

- Huge. - Massive. Bro, not only did I rent movies, we play this game still on set today called the movie game. Have you guys ever played this game with you guys? Well, you start with a movie or an actor. If I start with a movie, you have to name an actor in that movie. And then if it goes to Sully, he has to name another movie that that actor was in. So if I start off and I say Castaway, you would say- - Tom Hanks. - And then you would say- - Forrest Gump. - And then I would say Michael T. Williamson.

And then you'd be like, "Ooh, I don't know what Michael T. Williamson is." - Is the goal to try and stump? - The goal is to try and stump. You see that? I pick black dudes that I knew you guys wouldn't know. - I was like, "I know who Bubba is." - He plays Bubba, but he's also in "Waiting to Exhale." And so it's played like a game of course. And you try to get M-O-V-I-E to not get an M. - Oh, that's so fun. - So she got an M because she couldn't answer, right? So then you continue to- - Then you're out. - Then you get out. But so I would go to Blockbuster

And if I didn't even get the movie, I would just look at the back of the thing to find out who was in the movie. So you've been playing this game since then. To just store the information for later. To store the information for later. Wow. Because I'm an Aries. Because you want to win. Yeah.

- Did you have a go-to movie you used to get over and over again? - There's a couple of movies that I would try to lead people to that I knew all the actors in. - Hey, what if we... - Oh, it was still part of the game for you? - Still part of the game. - Oh, well, what were those movies? - Well, you know, I know like all like random people in the color purple. You know what I'm saying? Like, it depends on who I'm playing. If you're my audience, I'm going to lead you towards black cinema.

If I'm playing with young people, I'm gonna lead them to the 60s. You know what I'm saying? So it's all who you're playing against and what you think their wheelhouse is not. So strategic, Sterling. Gotcha. By the way, real quick. So strategic, Sterling, made me remember just the other day, I lost to my son in chess. For the first time? For the first time. It's a big day. That is gratifying. That's a big day. It's both.

It's both because as I saw it coming. It would have been gratifying for a cancer, not for an Aries. Listen, I saw it happening. I was like, this little is going to beat me. And I could feel it. I was trying to come back in or whatnot. And I couldn't. And I finally had to tip the king. Did he know he was going to beat you? He knew it. Yeah. And he goes, GGs.

Good game. He played it real cool. - Didn't rub it in your face. - He did not gloat. He did not rub it in. And I knew the day was gonna come. And I do feel proud. - You should feel proud. - And I'm gonna beat him. - Yeah, and you're like, let's go play with basketball. - Yeah. I still got you there. - No, right now. Let's go play a game of basketball. - So anyway, wait. - So Jack and Rebecca are in this video store. - In the video store. - She's trying to sell him hard on broadcast news. - Wait, wait, did you have go-to movies? - Did I?

- Beaches with Bev and Larry. - Really? - Yeah, I always wanted to touch that button of like, make me cry. - Back to the Future and Beetlejuice. - Oh, I was gonna say Beetlejuice too. - It's coming. - I know, I used to watch Beetlejuice over and over and over and over again. - It's fantastic. - The new one? - It's fantastic, huh? - The new one? - No, no, I haven't seen the new one, but I'm just saying like, first just like sidebar for Michael Keaton.

- Incredible. - Yeah. - Beetlejuice? - Yeah. - One that people don't sing a lot about? - No. - Multiplicity. - Multiplicity. - Canolee's Batman. - Like 12 characters. - The dude playing his copy of a copy?

- Absolutely brilliant. - Oh, I gotta watch this. - It was a standup before anything else. Okay, that's that. They're in the video store. - They're in the video store. She's telling him on broadcast news, on Roadhouse. - You're also into the dudes. I love how like open Rebecca is. - Rebecca's like, "Oh, Patrick Swayze, John Travolta." I was like, "What?" - And he's like, "What happened to my wife?" - Not my cup of tea, but okay. I can play that off. - But your cup of tea is, just so everybody knows. - Who is my cup of tea? - DG.

- Oh, Donald Glover? - Yeah. - Yeah, blow up my spot. Blow up my spot, Sterling. Yes. - Everybody has a celebrity crush. I don't know if you named yours the other day, 'cause I wound up naming Dolly Parton a couple episodes ago. - That was our first. - That was your first. - My first. - Your first. - Well, who is it now? - Current celebrity crush?

It's more talent-based than anything. Uh-huh. Yeah, you can couch it in that. It's Meryl Streep. Oh, okay. Okay. I thought you were going to say some hot young babe. She's gorgeous. She's gorgeous. Gorgeous. Sidebar, I got a chance to meet her. She was very kind. She liked my work in American fiction. She kissed me. On the lips? On the mouth. And I allowed it. And my publicist took a picture of it.

And I showed my wife. - And I printed it up and I put it in a picture frame. And I hung it above my bed at home. - And she goes, "Meryl Streep kissed you?" I said, "Yeah." And she said, "You must've been the hap-." I was like, "I'm never gonna watch these lips again." - Okay, Meryl Streep, Donald Glover. - My current one, I don't even know. I don't even know. - I'm thinking something bad.

I think there's the actress from the first season of, what's the hotel movie? The hotel TV show? - Oh, "White Lotus." - "White Lotus." - Are you talking about, there's Daddario, there is Connie Britton. - Connie Britton. - I mean, Connie Britton goes way back. - I was gonna say, Mrs. Coach. - Daddario, about to do a movie with Daddario. - I bet you are.

There we go. Yeah. I'm sorry. Let's get back to the show. Sorry, sorry. I digress. This is going to be the most interesting part. We have to start over. We have to start over. Yep. Anyways. Racism. Racism. And this is us. Get chicken pox. Can't get

- Nick, children get racist chicken pox. - He's got a fever. He's trying to sort of like battle through like the itching and whatnot. And Jack is like, "Hey man, you gotta be tough." Right? He's trying to wrap his hands up. You can't keep scratching and everything like that. You kind of got to grin and bear. And it sort of reminds me of the language that I use with my son and why it's, you have to be careful what the lesson is that you're trying to impart into that young man. - What do you want them to learn?

you don't know exactly what's going to get internalized. - Yeah, what's gonna resonate. - That way, you know what I'm saying? So that's happening. Does Kate get it next? - Kate gets it next. And then while they're at the doctor, he says, "Randall's not exhibiting any symptoms, but I suggest that..."

kids get it in one fell swoop because it's just easier that way. And he's sort of like, what? - You people are crazy. - She's not wrong. I mean, you're like, I'm perfectly healthy and now you want me to get chicken pox. - It's not wrong. But I tell you, my cousin who was the oldest to get chicken pox, she was 17 and it was awful. It was in her scalp. It was like under arms and she just had to take a full calamine bath.

Just laying the whole thing. I was around eight or something and it was bad, but I was like glad to have gotten it over with when I saw my cousin later on. - Rebecca chats with her mom at the doctor, finds out she had chicken pox when she was three. Jack's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I had chicken pox too. Well, lo and behold. - Chicken pox? - Oh yeah. - Chicken pox? - Yeah. - Yeah, me too. - Everybody had chicken pox.

- Now they have the vaccine. - Exactly, we don't have to worry about it in the same way. - Let me tell you something about vaccines. - Okay. - I was like, don't get us canceled, Sully. So they get back home and...

I believe it's not the next day. They get home that day and mom- - Shows up. - My mom arrives unexpectedly. Like you didn't say you needed any help, but like just she insisted on barging in and coming to help. - It is such a delight. - Again, played by Janet Malone.

Right? That's her character name. Elizabeth Perkins. Elizabeth Perkins. Elizabeth Perkins plays Gemma. But we get the echo of the tension that exists between Rebecca and her mom and the tension that exists between Kate and her mom, Rebecca. Yes. And you were saying before, and we're not going to blow up your spot. Yeah. But you were just talking about how it had familiarity, the complication of mothers and daughters in relationship with as surface as you'd like to be.

How does it mirror in your life? I think what's tough is my own mom doesn't live near me. So it's not a dynamic that I have to deal with on the regular. And so there is guilt that comes in when we are together.

And I do find myself getting annoyed for no fault of her own. It's clearly like it's my own, the work that I have to do myself. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But I do, I remember while we were filming the show and even watching it, it's like I see shades of myself. I see shades of her. I see, it's just, it's, there is so much universality and the specificity. Yes. Of a show like this. I cannot wait. Because for me.

30 years from now, there's going to be a 30-year-old girl. Who's like, I hate my mom. My mom's so annoying.

When she comes to visit, I roll my eyes like, ugh. - It'll be interesting to see who do you relate to more in terms of the mother or the daughter, or will there be some sort of like melding of both of them together? - Oh man, hopefully I'll do the work so. - You gotta kill it. - I mean, I think there's some perfectly imperfect purpose behind that kind of tension between mothers and daughters, sons and fathers, sons and mothers, all the different combinations that,

is important, that allows you to put some distance between you and this person who for the longest time you thought was the moon, the sun, the stars. Is this a leaving and cleaving sort of thing? On a pedestal. Yeah, leaving your father's house, whatever the metaphor is to putting some arm's length between, okay, what I was told that I think and what I actually think. Sure, sure, sure. Challenging all of those things to come up with your own

your own belief system. And some stick and some do belong to you. And there are other things just like, that's not for me. That's not how I'm, yeah. - Okay, so Beck lets her husband know like, listen, this woman's here, you gotta help me. - Don't leave me alone with her. - Don't leave me alone with her. Things could turn hairy. She has gifts for the kids. She refers to Kate and Kevin as the twins.

And Rebecca's like, they just refer to them as like the kids. The kids. Or their names. Or just say their names and I'll be fine. She has gifts for them. For Kev, it's a football helmet. For Kate, what's the gift for Kate? It's a little mermaid dress that's too small. That's too small. And she said it can be her gold dress. Her gold dress. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, well. We'll just let that lay there for a second. Yeah. And then she gives Randall. A basketball. Now listen. For the third time. Yeah. Sterling loves basketball. But Randall's like. What am I supposed to do with this? I don't even like that. Yeah. But thanks. And she says something like, well, everyone should be good at something. Everyone should be good at something.

And you're like, "Oh gosh, Elizabeth Perkins, shout out. You murdered this." Like, it was great. - Yeah. - Great. - Because it was like the level of offense was palpable and there, but also the level of unintendedness was also like, "Oh, she's just talking." - She's just naive. - It was not blind evil. It was like, it allowed you to live with Rebecca who sees it and is like, incorrect.

"My mother, I love you." - Right. - Like, because you are my mother, but also all of this is wrong. - Yeah. - Yeah. - She, Randall, oh no, let's see. She sees Jack and Kev sort of like, Kev trying to like stop scratching himself and scratching his face or what have you. And she says, "Don't scratch that face of yours. It's gonna make you a lot of money someday."

And then Randall invites her to look at the science project. The Rube Goldberg machine. The Rube Goldberg machine. He's like, I don't know what's going to happen in the middle, but at the end, like the dominoes fall and everything sort of happens this way. And she's like, you know, maybe when you finish it, I'll come check it out. Let me know when it works. He clocks and he's like, okay. And Rebecca's making, I'm guessing, some sort of like chicken soup. That's right.

You played this pretty nice too, because it was a turmeric or- - I'm sorry, would you like to- - Thyme. - Thyme, thyme. She's like, "I put in this much." You still go, "Well, that's not enough."

Would you like to make the suit, Mom? - Yeah, go for it. - You know what? It would be great if you'd make the suit. - I'm not gonna engage. I'm effing pissed, but you go for it. She calls me Bunny, which really annoys Rebecca. It's like, I don't look like a bunny. - She's living it. - Yeah. - She's living it right now. - Bunnies aren't even cute. Like she just, she has to tell Jack- - You know what I remember from that is that Bunny and Bug felt like sort of like- - I thought the same thing. - Yeah.

I was like, wow. I wonder if Kate likes bug. I call my kids love bug. Yeah. So I was like, oh, I hope one day they're not going to be like. Bug slipped into Rachel. She calls them bug. Really? Yeah. It's just an easy, cozy thing to slip into. They're little bugs. So you go tell your husband. I call them little shitheads. You little shitheads.

And it turns out that Jack has pox too. He's starting to feel feverish. - He gets sick, leaving her even more alone. - Right, she's completely and totally isolated. So everybody's laid up. There's a moment where everybody is avoiding Janet. - Well, that's the next morning. - That's the next morning. - The night before she goes and says, "When the snow's gone,

I need you to be gone. Yeah. She's like. Get it. Not before. Okay. The laundry list of like, there is a straw that breaks the camel's back. Yeah. What was it? And this is when Randall overhears, right? Yes. Correct. I don't remember what it was exactly. You talked about your housekeeper.

Yes, I know the laundry list of things, but I don't know what it is that eventually, it just got to a point where Rebecca's like- It was one thing after the other. It was like, you know what? You want to talk about it? Let's talk about it. Because I think she calls me out. She brings it up. She's like, why are you so mad? And I'm like, this is what you do. You come here, you criticize me. You say my house is too dirty. My-

Just a million things you- - You have this way of infantilizing who your maid was. She's a grown woman with four kids. - With four kids. - With four kids. And you're acting like the way that she speaks is gonna like change. Yeah, right. - So she goes through all of this

And kind of leaves it with like, you know, like these, they're all my kids. You constantly separate Randall and the twins. And it's become like abundantly clear to me that you are, you're racist. Mom, I'm sorry. Like, I have to call that out. Just as sweet Randall is walking downstairs because he's finished, he's figured out his project. And he has his first chicken pock. And he has his first chicken pock. Right there. And he's scratching and he wants to show me.

And you said, she's like, "You're a racist, mom. You're racist." And I was like, "Oh, this is an uncomfortable conversation to have right now between Rebecca and her mama." But the look on your face when you turn around and see Randall standing there was so... You went through 17 emotions in like a second and a half. Watching it, I was gutted. I'm like, "This is the last thing in the world I want my child to hear." Yeah.

me having this conversation with my mom at all in general. And it was just like, as I wasn't a parent yet, but looking at it through that lens now, I'm just sort of like, oh, you can, like, I just want to, like, I don't know what the next move would be other than like, I have to get him out of this situation, out of this space. More That Was Us after this short break.

So the holidays are officially right around the corner. The best time of year, the most exciting time of year. I'm sure all of you guys have travel plans. People be traveling at the holidays. I'm going to go see my family. I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited. Yeah, I've been traveling a lot actually back and forth to Toronto for this new gig and I'm checking out the entire city with Airbnb. I get a different apartment every time I go in a different part of the city. Whatever.

What a great way to get to know a city. I love that. Oh my goodness. Mandy, nobody knows Toronto better than I do. You'll have to be our tour guide next time. Listen, like many of you, we're getting into the swing of holiday planning. Whether you want to or not, it's the season for figuring out who is traveling where, who is arriving when, and is the dog coming? And for all these reasons...

We rely on Airbnb. I have been using Airbnb for years, and it's become my go-to for finding places that feel like home, no matter where I am in the world. It's also a wonderful way to share my own space with travelers, offering them the comfort of a home away from home.

We've done so many renovations on our house, I've been thinking, these renovations are too good, I have to share them with the world. Hosting just makes sense. Come on. And it might be for you as well. Yes. Hosting on Airbnb is a smart way to utilize your unused space. And getting started with hosting has never been easier. It's a great way to earn a little extra and can help subsidize the busy holiday travel season. You know I can always use a little extra money in my pocket. Your home might be worth more than you think.

Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. But it does lead to she... And Jack have a conversation with Randall where they talk about MLK and he's like, wait, so grandma shot MLK? I laughed this morning. I was trying to wake the house up.

Grandma shot him, okay? Yeah, yeah. He's like, grandma shot him? No, no, no. It's delivery. When Jack starts to explain how racism can appear and he uses you as an example. You see Rebecca be like, why you got to put my name in there? Mom sometimes says really nice things, but she doesn't really mean it. But in not a nice way. Yeah.

It's like, what? - But because the analogy worked, you were like, good analogy. - Racism's kind of like that. - But the crazy thing is, is, you know, he leaves somewhat satisfied with the answer that they gave. And the two of them look at each other like that. - It's one of those conversations. - Like that wasn't, that didn't go well. - We could have done better with that one. - Yes. - And it reminds me, like there's this thing, gosh.

The study, I can't remember the study, but it talks about the average age and when race gets discussed within a household and how it varies from household to household. And it happens latest in white households. That's interesting. You know what I'm saying? Because it's not the forefront of your consciousness or whatnot. And we hearken back to that in episode six and when Randall, episode, season five, et cetera. But it was interesting.

a moment in the show to see this young man sort of like slowly, like,

what's the word I'm looking for, sort of come to terms with his blackness, right? You know, because it's not, it is a chief distinguishing factor within the household. I don't look like anybody else, but like at least they make me feel welcome. And then my brother sometimes calls me Webster or something like that. And that's not cool. It doesn't feel good, but you know, they love me. And then my grandmother keeps giving me basketballs and

Why does she keep doing that? Like, that's annoying, that sort of thing. And I overheard this conversation when my mom was calling my grandmother a racist. You know, that's,

- Formative. - Formative. - You're not gonna forget that one. You know what I'm saying? And so like from that point forward, like it becomes like even more sort of like emphasized. And I just think about as adult Randall, the idea of not feeling like enough, not feeling black enough, not feeling like you said before, just enough in and of itself, right? It just sort of like,

was a very formative moment in my mind as I was charting the trajectory of the character. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And this storyline sort of wraps up with, you know, the next morning, everyone's avoiding going downstairs.

Rebecca's like, she's down there. And Jack's like, oh, no, no, no, no. I don't care that I'm sick, that I have the chicken pox now. We're not going to be held hostage in our own house. Like, I'm going to shovel her car out of the snow and let her get the heck out of here. Right, yeah. Just as important, his son gets up and helps him. Yes. Kevin. Yes. Gets up and helps him. Yeah. Because that's going to tie back in. It does tie back in. And, you know, before grandma leaves...

He talks about how his project finally works for the science fair. And do they want to see it? And, you know, mom and grandma kind of like peek into his room. And she's like, you're a very special young man. And like without skipping a beat, sweet young Randall goes, took you long enough. Took you long enough. I got a little. Same. I was like, yep. He didn't wait. He was like, yeah. Like, I'm just waiting for you to catch up. Yeah, I've been here.

Yeah, it was a great, great episode, a hard episode. Let's jump to Randall, Deja, the girls. Black Pearsons, we are at the kitchen table. Randall is doing Annie's hair, which shout out to Randall, because I don't have any daughters, but hair is not my strong suit. I believed it. I bought it. I was like, he knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing, right? And you see him...

Deja's hair is in a state of, it's chaotic. - Yeah. - It has not been taken care of. - It hasn't been taken care of, right? And they're trying to do hair in front of her to say like, "Hey, if you want us to do something with your hair, like we can go ahead and knock it out, dah, dah, dah." She's like, "No, I'm okay, cool." And so the kids leave Beth and Randall like, "I don't know what to do. I haven't changed up this girl's hair three or four times just to make it look cool or whatnot."

And Beth is like, well, we need to do something because it stinks. It's unhealthy. It needs to be taken care of, right? And he's like, can I take the lead on this? Because, you know, Beth is always the lead parent, as he says. And she's like, lead parent? I don't know what that is. And she's like, but you're at work right now. I'm here in the house.

I want the young lady to feel at home. I want her to feel accepted and welcome. And I don't want to do anything to further alienate her. And Beth's like, you got to do something though, bro. You can't just leave well enough alone because, you know, it's getting a little ripe up in the crib. He hears it. He takes the note. And so he decides to like, well, let's do some sort of family bonding thing where we can all just go out and have a good time. Who doesn't love bowling?

- By show of hands, do you not love bowling? - Oh, I love bowling. - 'Cause I love bowling. - Yeah. - I'll kill it. - I'll go bowling. - I've only broken 200 twice, but it's a good feeling when you do. - I love the bumpers. - I bowled a 250 once on accident. - A 250? - On accident? - Yo! - Eight strikes in a row. - Sully.

1230 in the morning. A hook or no hook? Straight ahead, man. I bowl hard and fast. The way I do most things. You throwing a 16? What are we throwing? That was a 16. That was a 16. Strong. Anyways, I digress. Okay, anyway. We go to this bowling alley and...

this young lady who's standing behind Deja was like, yo girl, your hair stinks. And she said, what'd you say to me? And like, you know, if you're going to say it, say it to my face. Lyric coming with, if you want to start something, you feeling froggy. Jump baby, let's go ahead and make this happen. And so the dads have to intervene. She pushes her. Yeah, she pushes her.

this dad steps in, he's like, I want an apology for my daughter. He's like, look, man, I'm sorry that anything happened. Let's calm down a little bit. - Randall's real polite at first and then glasses came off. - Then the dude got in my face and I was like, son, I need you to back. - Back.

You know what I'm saying? Coming at me confrontational like this. He goes, "If you can't control your daughter, daughter." He says it two times. And the second time he says, she just says, "He is not, I'm not his daughter." - Yeah, and she walks away. - Walks away. - She walks away and everybody winds up walking out of the place. And I'm glad I didn't have to fight 'cause that dude was big. - He was a big man.

But you can't come from my family. That's right. You're going to step up. You're going to start something. That's right. We're going to finish it. But now nobody got to bowl. Nobody got to bowl and my frames are not going to get messed up. So we go back to the crib. I tell Beth what happened. And I'm like, what was I thinking? Why did I think? You know, Randall overthinking everything in terms of how it's supposed to go. And so he's like,

I think they sort of like, passes the baton and like, "Can you do something? Can you help me out?" And Beth goes, she has a conversation with Deja about how, you know, her and her sisters used to bond over doing their hair. And my mom had this thing about the way that you look on the outside as a reflection about how you feel about yourself internally. And I still believe that, right? So if you want me to help you out with something, you let me know. And she's like, "Would you do my hair?" Right? And it's like a small win.

And you see her about to wash her hair and whatnot. Turns out that she's got a little bald spot in there. And she says, you know, I've seen alopecia before, but I can braid your hair in a really cute way so it kind of covers it up. And she's like, okay. And you see Daisy start to feel a little comfortable and start to relax about this whole thing. And so...

Beth tells Randall about what happened and whatnot. And he's like, "Man, I never would've even thought about that." And I think it's Randall in that moment, as small as it is, just sort of being like, "Okay, you don't have to have all the answers. Lean on your partner." You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't have to figure it all out. I know you think that you have the master plan all the time, but allow your helpmate to help you 'cause you're not good at all of this, right? And so he goes to see Deja

And he makes a comment about her hair and how it looks. And sometimes I get a little anxious and have these things happen. But one thing that really helps me out is I go running. So if you ever wanna go running and hang out with me or something like that, I would love that. And the takeaway from that from Deja is like,

She told you what I said? - Yeah. First Beth goes through her physical things and now Randall has accidentally gone through her emotional things. - Yeah, they share everything. - It's so funny 'cause when we talk to Daisy, I remember how she made me feel. I remember, I was like, oh, I'm an innocent. I was like, I'm coming at you the right way. And then when I realized what her takeaway from it was,

Like as an actor, I was like, oh wait, did I say the right line? I was like, I felt like I messed up. Because she made me feel like, oh, I effed. Right? And so, and we talked to her about this scene. She had to cut her hair. Right? And I remember being on set because I think Ken was around. Was Ken the director on this episode? I believe so. Check and see. It was written by Black Vera.

- By Black Vera wrote this? - Mm-hmm. - Black Vera is not Black, but we call her Black Vera because she got nominated for an NAACP award for writing and therefore she's Black Vera. - Yeah. - And it was directed by Ken Olin. - And it was directed by Ken Olin. And you know, Ken is so caring and she had, you walked around with Lyric for a while and she's like, "I don't wanna cut my hair." And I was like, "I know, I know you don't wanna cut your hair." And I remember walking in to see her and I was like, "This is gonna be hard." Right? And she's like, "Yeah."

I was like, "You're gonna be okay." I think she said, like, I said, "You really want to do this?" And she's like, "Yeah." And so as she's cutting her hair, and very little of this actually makes the footage in the show, it's just tears streaming down her face because she's taking scissors to her actual hair

On camera. On camera and cutting it. And you have to do a few takes in this business or whatnot. So like, so can we go a little, so it would be like this length to this length to that length. You know what I'm saying? And each time just, and everybody was behind Video Village. Holding their breath. Holding their breath, just making sure that this 13 year old baby was going to be okay. She's a trooper.

She's a trooper, you know? And so then the next shot you see is everybody in the kitchen all together. And she just walks in as nonplussed as possible with her hair down.

Not all the way shorn, but chopped. Chopped off. Chopped off. And Beth and Randall are just left looking at each other like, we thought we were making progress. And... No, we took a couple steps back. Beth wells up. Beth is almost crying. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, there was no acting at that point in time. It was just like, okay, we're going to have to figure out how to move forward now. Yeah. So...

That was that storyline. So powerful. On that one. Kate and Toby. Kate and Toby. We can touch on this, on her obsessive exercise. Oh, yeah.

like journey that she's on. She's trying to, as she says, like fit into a particular dress for this bar mitzvah that she's performing at. But like, you can tell it goes a little deeper. Something else is going on. Correct. And Toby clocks that and tries to bring it up multiple times to her. I mean,

We come back from like, you know, Toby and Kate pick up Kevin from his knee surgery, which we can get into. And she immediately is like, okay, he's here. I'm going to yoga. And it's like, wait, what? Hold your horses. She's in the pharmacy looking at diet pills or in the diet aisle or so we think. And Toby, you just continue to try to like...

Tell her like, you're amazing. Well, you are, you continue to be awesome. But to tell her like, you look great. You're doing all the work. Like you don't have to like,

your entire life doesn't have to revolve around the food, the exercise. It was just the obsessive nature. This was a good one. And what I mean by that is because at the beginning of it, I was thinking about, again, diet culture and this obsession with thinness versus health and wellness, et cetera. And it was a real...

It took a turn in a different direction. This one got me good because the last thing that we see after we think that she's obsessing over image, right? But it actually turns out she's six weeks pregnant. So she's trying to take care of herself for the baby. She's trying to take care of herself for this baby, right? Yeah. And I was like, oh, snap. Again, early. I forgot, guys. I forgot. I forgot.

that she got pregnant here. - Yes. - Me too. - Did you? - Yes. - Yes. - I was like, this is,

Four episodes into season two? Yeah. What happens in the last four seasons of this show? Yeah. I don't remember. Someone gets on a train. That's all I know. I remember something now. I'm not going to talk about that. We all get on the train at some point. But there is that. So that was a nice little turn. She's keeping it to herself. And it's interesting because you keep the first trimester to yourself a lot of times, but you would think that she'd let go.

- And then Kevin, last but not least. - Last but not, definitely not least. - He's trying to rush his recovery. Toby's trying to slow him down. - This guy is like, you can see it. And makeup, his knee looks jacked. - Yeah. - Like, I don't know. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah.

Freaking awful. Yeah, Brian Grazer. Yeah. Brian Grazer. Shout out to Brian Grazer. He's like, hey, Kevin, let me see your knee. Could you pull your pants up? And Kev pulls them up partially. He's like, no, a little higher. And he's like, oh, Brian, normally a guy has to take me to dinner first before I do all this. And he shows him his knee. He's like, dude, what is wrong?

That's why we have a medic on set. Yeah, he's like, "No, I'm gonna be okay. It's no big deal. I'm gonna power through this. I'm good at things like this." And that's the sort of parallel between what Jack was telling him about being tough with chickenpox and what he's taken it to mean for himself at this point in time in life. And one of the things we forgot to mention in the last episode that Ron Howard

says to Kevin, he's talking about Kevin's character in this film he's shooting. He's talking about his relationship to Sylvester Stallone. And Ron Howard says to him, he's like a father to you and he's going to die on your watch if you don't save him. I mean, if that doesn't just cut

To the core. So as Kevin is recovering, he is trying to get back into this movie to metaphorically save this father figure to him. And they get some page corrections. And they've taken one of his lines, which is him saying like three words, I got you. Yeah. I got you. And gave it to another character. And they gave it to another character.

- Because they wanna let him recover. - That's right. - He has to have this knee surgery and he's like, "I'll be back on set in like a week, 10 days or something." So they're rejiggering the schedule for him and Kevin. - He's trying to save Jack Pearson. - He talked about early in the episode how he didn't like taking the pain pills because they made him feel a little foggy in the mind. - Yeah, he mentioned that a couple times. - So he kinda wanted to do without them, even though he took a pill at the end of the last episode.

And so now he's trying to go without, go without. He's on the treadmill doing stuff. Toby has to literally unplug the damn thing to get this dude to sit the hell down. But I think we do see him taking the pills again at the end of this episode. We do. There's a really incredible montage with Madman Across the Water by Elton John. Right. It's a favorite song. Yeah. It just, you see Jack and Kevin-

shoveling snow, you see flashes of Kevin watching old football videos of Jack saying like, "That's my boy." Like videos that clearly they were, they sent to scouts.

And Kevin tells Toby, like, essentially, he explains the significance of, like, why I can't let this knee sideline me before. Like, I wasn't just good at football. I was incredible. I was being scouted. Like, as a sophomore, I was on the varsity team. And, you know, I got hurt and it sidelined me and it changed the course of my life and I became an actor. And it's like, I'm going to be damned if I let this... That's right.

This knee sidelined me again and ruined, like, everything that I've been working towards. Yeah. And you feel, you understand. You understand why it means so much to him. And it's not just, like, you know, him, I don't know, trying to be as professional as possible or something. It's like there's so much more at stake for him. And I think that juxtaposed with watching these old movies.

you know, home videos of Milo popping on talking about how proud he is of his boy and-- - "My boy, he's tough. My boy is tough!" - And that's, you mentioned it earlier in this episode about the things, the way we talk to our children and the way, it's not what is said, but it's the way they latch on to what we say, right? - To what information. - 'Cause the point, Kevin is tough. Kevin is strong. Kevin is capable.

But that's not why your dad loves you. Right. Well said. You know what I mean? Yes, sir. And you can tell the difference. Absolutely. Between what he's going through. But he's getting a mixed message there. Right. And his takeaway is, to honor my dad, I have to be tough. I have to tough this out. And you see him at the end of the episode swallow a pill.

shows up on set, walks out of his little sports car into his trailer, says hello to everybody. Like, I'm back at work. Like, nothing's happened. And Brian Grazer's like, you're a man of your word. Good job, buddy. Like, you did it. You've just been rewarded for being tough. Totally. And that's sort of where we leave them. Vera Herbert does it again. Ha!

- Shout out to Black Bear. Great, great episode. Again, it's a great episode in and of itself and the way that they just keep setting stuff up that is to come. - Slowly but surely. - Masterful, man. - I know, I know, it's true. - Should we check in with the emotional support hotline before we go? - I think we should. - Let's do that. - Right after these messages. - More That Was Us after these words from our sponsors.

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We had such an incredible time doing the emotional support hotline last week. We decided, why not do it again this week? Folks, we weren't kidding. This is really one of our favorite things to do. All right. So let's see who we are talking to today. We are going to talk to Brittany. But first, we are going to listen to the voicemail she left us. Go for it. Hi. Hi.

the big three of that was us. Um, my name is Brittany and, um, I just started listening to your podcast recently and it's like reliving, um, watching the show, uh,

And I will tell you, I have not watched the show through once, but twice through. And the first time I watched it through as it was live on TV, my life was in a completely different place than it is now. So re-watching it comes with a lot of different emotions than I had before. Just pinpointing

so many different things that the characters are going through and how realistic it is. And a lot of times we watch shows on TV and even dramas that we walk away and say, "Oh, that's not realistic to everyday life." But this, this is. There's so much that I've been able to relate to

before getting married, now that I'm married, now that I'm raising a child, and even just specifically having a family member that has a medically fragile child and watching that experience of one of the characters in later seasons.

And my job as a foster care worker and working with kids who have been in and out of the system and Randall's story and how important biological family is to reconnect, watching that.

situation unfold. It is just something I actually reference a lot. So just all that to say thank you and

Watching it the first time is one thing, but I'm with you and rewatching it and how it kind of brings up a lot of different emotions. So if you want to give me a call back, my phone number is 7... Yeah. Right on, Brittany. All right. Wow. Let's call her back. We will call her back.

Hello? Brittany! Brittany! This is Chris Sullivan. Sterling Brown. Mandy Moore. How you doing, Brittany?

You know, I'm living it up today. Thank you so much. Listen to your message. Thank you for it. It's beautiful and touching and means so much to us to know that we've been a part of your lives not once but twice. But you hinted at a timeline. I think the first time you were single and the second time you've been watching it, you are now happily married?

happily married and have a child. Congratulations! And she just turned three yesterday. Happy birthday. So these things, like you got married while the show was still on or after the show had ended? I did. While it was still on, so I started watching it hooked from the first episode and then I had to finish it on my own and then

convinced my husband to start watching it because he's not into the sappy dramas, but he did. I knew there were certain things that he could

relate to um it being so realistic and so many people's lives just touching on so many different topics um unlike any other show i've ever watched so and thank you oh my gosh no thank you thank you for watching thank you again for that really beautiful message yeah this emotional support hotline is actually for us we thought it was for our fans but it's actually for us

It's just a nice ego boot. Nice little pick me up. But you alluded to the fact that your work takes you within the foster care system. Can you elaborate on that? And was this a line of work you were already...

in when the show was on and you were watching the show or was there some sort of potential like influence there? I'm just, I'm curious. So it's really interesting how multi-layered this show is impacting just, you know, in my personal life, but seeing some of the storylines play out of family members. My mom was actually

raised by paternal relatives from two years old until she graduated high school and did not know anything about her biological mother or her maternal family at all. For whatever reason, they kept that information from her and she kind of had to figure it out on her own as an adult. And

had a little bit of information and tried a couple times here and there in her adult life to get more information just to

figure out if she could get in touch with any maternal relatives. Sure. Had only pictures of her mom and the names of her grandparents and where her mom was born. I actually, in high school, went on a very spontaneous road trip with her to visit the place where her mother was born. No intention just to go visit. No intention of anything happening because, you know, that's like...

What?

And so looking at, you know, similar storyline, Randall and his experience with William, but just that that desire deep seated, even though he was raised and adopted from birth, but that deep seated desire for biological family.

always with him. My mom was in her 50s when that happened. It was always and she wasn't even adopted or raised by strangers. She was raised by her own relatives. So that experience, you know, it's interesting to show how it uses the flashbacks and then kind of correlates them to what's happening in the present timeline. So in that experience, me being able to see that play out before my eyes was just like

eye opening and I was only 15 at that point and had no idea I would end up working with kids in foster care.

Eventually, it was always in my mind that I wanted to help people, but I honestly couldn't tell you how I ended up in the social work field and how I ended up with working in foster care. It just happened. - You're a saint. - Can you tell us a little bit more about that actually? Because my wife and I have actually talked about it. I mean, mostly because of the show, like that's an interesting idea. Is that something we would ever be interested in? Will you tell us more about your work

with the foster care system. And I guess, I don't know if I'm asking you for a commercial for the foster care system, but tell us, seriously, tell us how people...

They've ever had an interest can help can be of support can I have what you're looking for? For these kids. Okay, so I started my career Fresh out of college. I started off working in a group home for teenage boys Which if you saw me on the street, you'd be like what why? Why did you do that? but it was

a very incredible experience. I mean, there were definitely times where it was, uh, there were interesting situations that happened, but I feel like that, uh, gave me perspective when I then, um,

moved to direct casework as a foster care worker, working with kids in foster care and their families, being able to relate more with the foster parents because as a caseworker, you're seeing like a 30,000-foot view. You're not in the throes of it day in, day out, 24-7 with kids. And I will say that exactly the way the show depicts that whole foster care scenario and timeline is amazing.

Wow.

in and out of psychiatric hospitals. I've never been in one myself. So how could I possibly relate to kids like that? Because, you know, I had a pretty seemingly normal childhood growing up. Um, but seeing even the, the way that, um, Randall and Beth are able to relate. Beth wasn't in foster care, didn't have the same timeline as, as Randall and had,

seemingly perfect home environment was still able to relate to these kids. I would just say anyone who wants to become a foster parent, there is a huge need. There are so many kids in foster care. There's so many, and more specifically, so many teenagers in foster care that I've seen on the more

Heart wrenching side of things where these teenagers literally do not have a foster home that's willing to take them and they end up sleeping in hotels and social services offices because of the deep seated trauma where it manifests in different ways. And there's, you know, obviously a risk and people that are signing up to do this. It's not easy at all.

But there's such a need for people that are going to be in it for the long run. And understanding trauma, childhood trauma, and even the biological family connection, how important that is. I have, you know, I've seen kids sleeping in offices, but on the other side of things, some of the most beautiful things,

things I've been able to witness as a direct foster care worker with kids are when they're able to reunite with their family. They might be thriving in a foster home and have joy, happiness on their face, but it's nothing compared to them reuniting with their parents or their family members. And even in scenarios where

The child might be in foster care more long-term or they're adopted out of the foster care system, seeing how beautiful it is when their foster parents are willing to, um,

invite the biological family into their world yeah inviting them to holidays and things of that nature and this made world of difference um so i will say there's a huge need for kids and foster care in general but there's a huge need for kids for foster parents for teenagers

in the world we live in wow well that is an incredible commercial for the work that you do and thank you thank you for your service to kids and their families and it's just that it truly is such a specific kind of person that can carry the emotional baggage that comes along with a job like that so yeah wow there aren't enough of you in the world thank you brittany

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, it's hard work. It's hard work from where I sit, but it's hard work. Foster parents deserve medals of honor. Seriously, yeah. Yeah. Foster kids, you know, I've even, like, if you...

If there's somebody listening to this that's wanting to get more information, I mean, just going to every state and county is different. So just going to wherever your local government office is and trying to get more information is

um, on training, but, you know, I've learned so much from the kids that I've had the privilege of working with. The fact that some of these kids are able to wake up, get dressed, eat and make it through a day is a miracle in and of itself. And they've changed me more than I probably have influenced to them. Um, so as hard as the work is in foster care and as a foster parent, it is extremely rewarding.

It's also just so heartening to hear, not that it is about a television show, but that you see the show reflected back to you in a realistic way because we

we all know the power of entertainment and the fact that it can elicit a conversation or some curiosity from folks that maybe don't know much about the system. They're able to watch the show and have a little bit more of, you know, a breadth of knowledge and understanding of, you know, Deja's story and the Pearsons and what it sort of took to kind of become a family. Absolutely. Yeah. It, I, I,

even seeing the entire story play out is the most realistic depiction of foster care I've seen. And even just talking to, you know, I wasn't in foster care, but talking to kids that have been in foster care and their recollection of their experience, it is very accurate. So it's great that people have that form of entertainment to even watch and potentially consider becoming foster parents themselves.

Brittany, thank you so much for calling and leaving that message. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you rock, Brittany. Congratulations on your three-year-old son or daughter.

daughter on your three-year-old daughter congratulations on marriage congratulations on the good work that you do for humanity and society and i hope you find a way to take care of yourself too because that is not oh i know it's a daily it's a daily thing a daily practice i'm sure exactly lots of self-care britney have a good day thank you for your message yeah have a wonderful day bye it's britney

That was incredible. Good gracious. If you want to call and leave us a message on the Emotional, our Emotional Support Hotline. Yes, yes, yes. The number is 412- That's correct. 501- Also correct. 3028. Bam. If you want to give us a ring, maybe we'll give you a ring back. Yeah. Maybe even-

It's just cathartic to leave a message. Yeah. I mean, it's lovely for us to be able to filter through and listen to all of them. We really, yes, we appreciate anyone taking the time to let us know anything about their lives, their connection to the show, et cetera. You can also send us an email at thatwasuspod at gmail.com. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share.

share with friends, help grow the podcast. We enjoy doing it. The more support we get, the easier it is for us to keep it going. So we appreciate you. We thank you. We'll see you on the next episode of That Was Us. Because that was us. That was us. That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us.