Nowhere to Run | "Number One" (S2E8)
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On today's episode of That Was Us, we'll be discussing season two, episode eight, number one. An alumni honor ceremony brings Kevin back to his high school where painful memories of that time in his life further his downward spiral. And Jack and Rebecca are hopeful about the future of their kids.

Gang, how are we doing today? - I'm pretty great. - Yeah. - I'm happy to be discussing this episode in particular. I've been waiting. - So Manny and I have been having this conversation for a long time. I'm gonna go back to when I first read the episode, 'cause we got the three episodes coming up focused on each of the big three in the past and in the present, right? And I read Kev's episode and I was like, "This is really good." And then I saw Kev's episode.

And I was like, this is the shit. Justin Hartley stuck his foot so deep in this episode that it's probably in my top 10 of episodes of the show, maybe even top five. It's top five for me. It's top five for Mandy. And Sterling, before you arrived yesterday, Chris, Sterling and I sent a little video to Justin because-

We just had to let him know. Gotta let him know. We had to give him his flowers. Have to. We had to just tell him how much we missed him, how much we appreciate him. Yeah. How my, my,

mind-blowingly good he was in this episode. It is just like, again, re-watching it, it just, it took me back to seeing it for the first time and I hadn't watched it since I saw it that first time six, seven years ago or however long that was. The fact that he doesn't get the recognition and the accolades

Come on now for the work that he did on this show just blows my mind. Yeah, so so that's that's our just little The episode begins with the home movies back in the past of Jack and Rebecca watching the big three They're all around a year or something. Maybe a little less a little older and we're trying to see who's gonna walk first

Like, come on, Vic 3, who's gonna go first? And number one starts walking and he's moving forward. He's like, oh, it's number one, he's going forth, right? And so we know Kevin was the first person to sort of take those steps. And this episode is the first in a trilogy of episodes. So it'll be Kevin, then Kate, then Randall. And we'll revisit this motif to sort of set up each one as we go through. And the interesting thing is, in the first,

past, the more present past, I guess, when the big three are teenagers, when they're not little, little kids, which is sort of the time, the two timelines that we're living in, in these, these particular episodes, right? The teen years, right before Jack passes away, or we come to realize later on before Jack passes away. And then the present day, we shot all of these episodes sort of block shot them in a way, meaning that like,

we had to figure out, we kind of shot these particular scenes that we see from these different perspectives in any given episode, whether it was Kevin's perspective or Randall's perspective or Kate's perspective. We kind of shot all of these scenes at the same time. That makes sense. Just,

kind of you see maybe like if Kate goes into the kitchen, we follow Kate into the kitchen in her episode. Whereas in Kevin's episode, we would have stayed with Kevin wherever he was in the scene. - Did it take longer to shoot? - It did. It was like, I believe Ken directed all three of these episodes, right? Which much to his chagrin, I just remember. - This is when he cracked. - This is when we broke Ken Orland. - This is when he became a problem on Twitter.

Totally. I think you're right. There is a real correlation between him going crazy on Twitter and doing these three episodes all at once. But yes, there was a lot of choreographing how these scenes were going to be blocked and how they looked because we kind of shot these different perspectives all at the same time. It's a Rashomon sort of thing. Yeah. It just reminded me as we jumped into these episodes, I was like, oh, that's right. It was something we had to kind of break down. Yeah.

and understand and kind of wrap our heads around before moving forward. So the first thing that we see is Kev in the hotel.

'Cause he hasn't, you know, he didn't, obviously- - He is clearly- - On a binge. - On a binge. - Yeah, on a bender. - It's Kev with a beard, which we've seen for the first time. We've never seen before. And I don't think we ever see it again. - Was that a real Justin? - Old Justin. - Old Justin. - Silver Fox Kevin. - Silver Fox. And then a couple of other times we'll see Kevin with a goatee.

And remind me of this because he hated that goatee. - Oh, Justin hated it? - With a passion. - Truly. - 'Cause it's like, neither one of us were used to what Milo had to do in terms of painting, like gluing it on all the time. And every once in a while I would have to glue mine on and I was like, I can't talk. - That's why Milo talked the way he did. - That's why he talked the way that he talked because you move there and it's like- - It pops off. - Pops right off. - Was this Justin, was it a real beard?

I do not know the answer to that. I don't think so. You don't think so? I don't think so. You think it was- Should we call Zoe real quick? It was fixed double? We need to find out if that was a real beard or not. Seriously. We'll text her. Let's text her. Text her and then we'll continue to talk about this, right? Okay. Because he's on a binge.

It's clear he hasn't gone out. He hasn't showered or not. The maid for the hotel. The hotel where he's staying. Martina comes in and she's like, do you need anything? And he clearly, he's making a phone call. He truly is making a phone call. He's unhinged. And she picked right up. Hold on one second. This guy's unhinged. Hey, we're actually playing the game on the podcast right now. Real beard, fake beard. Are you kidding?

No, we're serious. We can't remember and we couldn't tell if Justin's beard in his first episode is real or fake. Would you like to answer the question? Remember Justin in number one, the first time we did it, 208. Was that a real beard when he's sort of like on a bender the entire episode? No, that was fake. It was! Wow, Zoe. It was hand laid. It was fake.

It was hand-laid into his own facial hair. I think he had a little bit of stubble and we hand-laid it in. The only time he wore a fake, fake beard, do you want me to tell you? Yes.

What, Silver Fox? When he's Silver Fox. Silver Fox. And then for like Randall's wedding, I think he had a goatee or something like that. He did have a goatee. That's right. Yes, we gave him a little goatee. Zoe, thank you for playing the game. You are a champion. You are a champion of all. That was amazing.

We love you. Talk to you later. You're welcome. Bye. Bye-bye. Wow. That was a great fake beard. That was one ring she picked up. She really did. That was a great fake beard. She liked you, Chris. I guess. Yeah. So he...

He gets a phone call. He gets a phone call. From Kate? From who? He thinks it's from Kate, but it's not. It's from his high school. From his high school alumni association. Saying, see you tomorrow. Yeah, just checking in to make sure you're all set for tomorrow, for your speech, to come to this ceremony where we're honoring you, we're giving you an award. And he's saying that's not going to be to the whatever. That's on the 20th. And he's like, yeah, that's tomorrow. Yeah, it's the 19th.

And he's like, "Oh, snap." And he goes to Martina, "Do you think I should do it?" And he goes, "Does it mean you have to leave this room?" She's like, "Then yeah." - Get out of here. - Made me need to take a shower. - She was great, by the way. - She was wonderful. - She was exceptional. - She was absolutely hysterical. - And by the way, that room, I was like, "Wow, he is messy." - He's messy. - He's a messy man.

Yeah. Okay, so old high school wants to honor me. Oh, we go back to the young three filling out college applications, right? Yes. So this is something that we revisit in all three episodes. You see Kev has an application for Notre Dame, right? And while this is all happening, the lights go out. Jack has to go fix the breaker, get it back up and whatnot. And so Kev

is there's about to be the coach for Pitt is about to come to the house. Yeah, have dinner at the Pearson house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rebecca's icing a cake. Being a prick. Kev is in his robe and shout out to the mid-90s because he's wearing his crop top. And just quick anecdote, if I may. Please. Wore crop top

Underneath my football pads all seven years that I played football. There was one year, senior year, we went on an eight game winning streak. And I said, I was not gonna wash this crop top until we lost the game. I would go back to my locker

and it will have crusted over. You have to understand this, man. - Oh yeah, I- - Because the salt is, and so I would have to like squeeze it to give it shape and wring it out or whatnot. - You understand, Mandy. You've been- - You understand, you know what it's like to do that. - Sure. - And then eventually as I would sweat, it would loosen up again and get that nice form fitting in it. And then I would hang it back up again. - And then the salt would start to burn your nipples. - There you go.

Eight games. Eight games. Eight games. It was rancid. I bet that smelled. And then you eventually lost a game? And then we eventually lost a game. And you also had a yeast infection in your armpits. Possibly. Good. Possibly. All those things happen. I can't wait to retread this episode. So he's like, why am I getting dressed up for it's just pit? Like he's being very pejorative, dismissive, just...

Rude. Entitled. Entitled and everything, right? So they tell him, go put on some pants and a shirt with a collar. Get yourself together, right? Should we stick with that timeline and then go back to the first? Yes, absolutely. Even though it jumps around. It jumps back and forth. It jumps back and forth between the two, but it's interesting. So he eventually does go put a collar shirt on, puts on pants. The coach gets there. Seems like the nicest guy. Yeah. Yeah.

-In the whole world of what? -He's very interested in Kevin. -Very interested. -Recognizes his talent. He says, "Man, you're gonna be playing in your first year." And he goes, "Well, Kev's like, 'Am I gonna be starting?'" And you can see Jack and Rebecca both be like bristle. You both give this slow look over to him that's very parental. -Yeah. -And very different. Two very different looks going on that I really liked. Sure. I guess it was good. The creeping dread of like,

wouldn't want to be Jack's child when you make Jack Pearson angry. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, thank you. And so then he goes like, well, you'd be a part of the great tradition of Pittsburgh quarterbacks, Joe Montana. Joe Montana went to Notre Dame.

Like he shut it off real quick. And Jack is like, "Bro, what are you doing?" And even as I'm watching it, Logan was so good in it. When you hate the person that's doing it, but you hate them because they're doing it so well, you're like, "Quit being a douche." - The arrogance. - Dude, right? Before the coach got there,

This was important. He said, "You think we can move dad's AA stuff out of the way?" Because you have a sense that like there's something about Jack going through this AA thing that is bothering him. He views it as, he seems to view it as weakness. Yes. Okay, so door closes. Jack turns to him. "Get out of my sight."

Okay. Get back here! Yeah. Immediately changed his mind. Classic 90s dad. I didn't mean that. I meant, get back here. And so he goes, he's talking to him about how lucky he is to be in this place, to have a coach from this school who's interested in you. And he's like, it's not luck. It's talent.

I mean, like each time you think that he's been as douchey as he could be, he takes it like a step higher, right? Jack tells him it was embarrassing to watch you behave just like you did.

He looks him in the face without blinking and he goes, "I know the feeling well." To his father. And it's like, it's really challenging our audience to be like, "Is this where you would have gotten popped?" Yeah. "Is this where you would have gotten..." No. Yeah. It would have happened a long time ago. Yeah.

This kid's already taken it three steps further. Dude. Really showing the zen nature of Jack Pearson. Absolutely. So because, okay. So if we're sticking in that timeline before we go back up to the front then. What you said was wrong. Oh, wait, wait, sorry. I'm jumping around. Oh, no, Jack, yeah, takes accountability. He goes, good, because he goes, I'm not strong. Why, no, wait, I'm sorry. I'm jumping around. I don't know what timeline I'm in.

I'm getting confused between the two. Well, after these messages, we'll be right back. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

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Jack comes up to Kevin. He asks him what's going on with him because he doesn't... Like, even Jack, like, it wasn't anger. He was like, what is going on? I'm so confused as to this level of insolence that you're, like, giving to me that I'm just sort of, like, befuddled, right? So he winds up leaving, and then...

Kev walks out of his room to see Jack on the phone with his sponsor. - Yeah. - Just sort of saying like, "I don't know what's going on with him. This is a low point, but thank you for being here for me. 'Cause I don't know what I was gonna do." Like he's sort of just lost, right?

And so then he sees his dad- - Get on his knees. - Drop, gets on his knees and he starts praying the prayer. God, thank you for giving me- - The serenity prayer. - Right. And then you see Kev sort of break a little bit, right? - Yeah, he's crying watching his dad on his knees. - He's crying watching his dad going through this thing. And it sort of reminded me to a certain extent

of what I thought one of the great draws of the show was. Because the great draw of the show, one of them for me from the beginning, is that you get a chance to see parents and children living life at the same age in two different timelines. And what it sort of echoed to me is that we put our parents on these pedestals when we are young and have these expectations of them to be superhuman.

right super mom super dad et cetera and then you get a chance to be the same age that they are and you realize oh they were just people yeah trying the best that they knew how to figure this out yeah day in and day out yeah right and it's almost like in that moment

Jack went from there to there, but not in a way... Before, it was like a demeaning sort of thing. And then it was just like, oh, my dad's just trying to figure this shit out. From resentment to understanding. Yes. So that was like a beautiful sort of thing because as we move...

through the episode, we know that Jack is gonna go out of town with Randall 'cause he's got a college trip that he needs to go. So he may not be able to make it to his football game. And so the football and Kev's like, "It doesn't matter. Like I got plenty of fans in the stands. Don't even worry about me." And it's like, "Ah, come on, dude." Like every time you get a chance to like recover, it just doesn't go. So he's at the football game.

And this is when we find out about the initial injury to Kev's knee, when it just sort of blows up. And his future, as he saw it, blows up with it, right? Yeah.

there's a necklace that, well, Jack comes, they return from the trip. Well, they basically, Rebecca and Kate see that this is, you know, somewhat catastrophic. He's not getting up on the field. And the next time we see them, they're all at the hospital. Jack and Randall have come home from their college trip. And...

Rebecca tells them that they're doing an MRI on his knee and it's not looking good. And basically you see Rebecca and Jack then out in the hallway talking to the doctor and him obviously telling them the news. - Yeah. - That, you know, this is not what they-- - His life is not gonna go the way he thinks it's gonna go. - Yeah, his life is forever changed. Jack then goes into the hospital room to see Kev

And Kevin's basically expecting him to say like, what? The playoffs are off the table now. What do I have to sort of wrap my head around? They don't know me. They don't know how strong I am. I'm going to get back up. I'm going to defy the odds. I'll be back out on the football field, what, in a couple games or something? And Jack has to break the news to him that, you know, I get emotional thinking about it, but it's just sort of like the life that you expected, right? Like he was going to go to some place

incredible school on a full ride. Yeah. Starting quarterback, whatever. Like his life now has been forever changed. Yes. And Jack has to tell him like, I know you thought it was going to go one way, but I know in my bones that you are meant to do something else. Yeah. Incredible. Like you have other, exactly. Yeah. You have other purpose in this life. And so,

He has a necklace that was given to him, I think in Vietnam. And it's the Buddhist symbol for purpose. Of purpose. And he gives it to Kev and Kev has apologized. He says, I know I was awful to you. And he says, you're going to be all right. And they hold each other. They cry together. And it's a beautiful moment. Okay. And a side note. Yeah. There's a little song by a sweet Taylor Goldsmith, a cover of a Jackson Browne song these days. I was like, Taylor and I were watching it the other day. I heard his voice and I was like. I was like, it's a good song.

"It's you!" He's like, "Oh yeah!" Like he totally forgot that Ken had actually asked him if he would record a cover of this song for this episode. And both of us had forgotten until the song started. And I was like, "That's you!" - Yeah. - So it was a sweet little musical moment. - I love that. - Also, as we're talking about the music in this episode, this is one of the pieces of Syd's score beyond the painting that I remember

left a real mark on me um i love this like if you you can go on to wherever you stream your music and you can listen to i think i believe like all six seasons of sid score of the show but this is number one the theme for number one and it's it's just beautiful there's something about it that like again immediately transports me back to this time this series of episodes because it

It plays throughout, it plays throughout Kate's episode and Randall's episode, but it's a really, really beautiful reoccurring theme. And I just shout out to Sid. I love it so much. - You know what I didn't realize also, shout out to Sid, he won his first Emmy at the Emmys this year. - Oh yeah. - Like right after our podcast, I think the Emmys happened. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - And he wound up winning. So just shout out to Sid. Yeah, it was awesome.

- A talent. - He's talented. He's solid. Okay. So that's the past, right? - Now we get to the meat. - Now I get goosebumps. I really do get goosebumps.

I wanna say it is so easy to celebrate everybody on the show because I think we collectively celebrate each other. There's no sense of like, if somebody got something, somebody else didn't get something. It's like, we all win in this thing together. So when we talk about the enthusiasm that we have for Justin and how he ripped this mother effing episode, it's real.

He winds up going back to the high school. The young lady had called him or, first of all, we see him go to the airport

and people are taking pictures, et cetera. And he's a shell of himself. You know what I mean? Like barely keeping it together. But all people see is the Manny, somebody famous and they're shooting their shot and they're taking their moment and taking the pictures. And he doesn't really have the strength to say no or to like give a smile. He just sort of stands there and then just kind of keeps moving through the whole thing, right?

Before he gets back to the high school, he asks his driver to take a quick detour. - This is where the tears started for me in this episode. - He's like, "Yeah, I know where we gotta go. Just make this turn real quick." And he winds up pulling out in front of the old house. And directorially, like this is some beautiful stuff that happens because we see the house as is right now that he's seeing. Then we see a burned down shell of a house, right?

for just the briefest of seconds. And then we see the family, the old Pearson family, playing a game of football against each other in the front yard. In the front yard as 10-year-olds. And it's just like, and Kevin's just standing there

watching that whole thing. And then it flashes back to, oh, we're in front of somebody else's house. And the dude's like, can I help you? - Oh yeah, the owner's like, what are you doing? He's staring at my home. - Yeah, just creepy dude with beard standing in front of my crib. I don't watch the Manny so you don't get that social capital. Bounce.

He winds up going to the school. The young lady, Kelly, who talked to him on the phone was so excited for him to be there. Winds up telling him that there's a green room for you to hang out in. We didn't expect you to be here this early. This is so exciting. I've never talked to a celebrity. He's like, you know what? I'm just going to take a walk. Winds up walking through the hallways of the school. And a shout out to this directorial choice too. Yeah. I love this part.

and this slow, truly, it's like I think about it when I think about the show. I love the slow motion. You start on Kevin and then you go around the hallway and you end up on Logan's face. And just- The man. The juxtaposition of-

Him reliving his high school years when he was on top of the world, juxtaposed with where he is now, coming back to his high school. It's, again, chef's kiss. I just, I love it. There's a few, because there's another one coming up, right? Yes, agreed. So he gets to the thing where he's being, no, before he gets honored, there's like a little reception before, because there's a few other people who are being honored as well.

And there's a girl, a woman. Charlotte. Charlotte. Who's a plastic surgeon. Who's a plastic surgeon who works, you know, burn victims, et cetera. We wound up finding this out. Who had a- A big crush on him. Big crush on Kevin when they were in high school. And you probably don't even remember me. Like you were always with Sophie, but dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. They're having drinks and Kev's pouring extra wine. Like he's, any opportunity he has to drink, to,

to take a pill or whatnot, he's taking it, right? And he's not even really hiding at this point. He's just doing it. Indulging, sure. Indulging. So she's very sweet and very sort of flirtatious with him or whatnot. And then it comes time to the actual honoring, the ceremony itself. To introduce Kevin, they bring back his old high school coach.

right and this was another one of those uh uh eternal sunshine of the spotless mind sort of moments yeah where you circle the camera and it's the old coach talking and you circle around kev and you go back and it's jack saying the exact same thing and then circles back again back to the coach and you stay with kev just sort of watching it and realizing

There's a sense of loss. Like that dude is probably like the male figure. Yeah, the surrogate. That's closest to like what his dad would have been or whatnot. And so Kev goes and hugs him and

and is taking everything in. And it's like, you know, that's what I was reading before. It's like, you guys were wrong about me. Because the coach winds up saying, you're one of the strongest kids that I know to bounce back from what you went through and to make something out of your life. Like, you don't make them like you anymore, Ken. I know your dad would have been proud to see who you are, right? He says that in the speech. And Kev's like, you guys are wrong about me. I'm not strong.

And somebody yells out, we love you, Kevin. It's like, no, don't, don't, don't do that. Don't love me. It's completely undeserved or whatnot. And it just elicits uproarious applause, right? And this is where I have to take a moment because this is, and I won't say I've had this experience, but something analogous to people not seeing you.

and you trying to tell them who you are, right? But here's the thing. Yeah. The thing about this episode and Kevin's path to rock bottom, which is, as I view this, what it is, and his experience with addiction, and the lining up of history, trauma,

all of these things that have brought him to where he is now. The ironic part about when I was watching this scene, having had some of these experiences myself with program, with recovery, with sobriety, is that that coach, those people are the ones who are right. What Kevin is living in is self-involved,

shame, narcissism to a certain level, self-centered thinking that he thinks we feel we have regret for things. We feel regret for things we've done. We feel shame for things that we think we are. Interesting. And he is in this shame spiral of who he thinks he is and he's wrong.

Because we know Kevin. He is not this person. He is just a person in crisis. He's a person who is actively being dragged down by his addiction. And the ironic part is that his dad would be proud.

even though he is struggling, even though he is at a certain point. The audience is right to celebrate him and to be excited by him and the work he's given them. He deserves all of these things. Yeah. This is interesting. And the actual crime here is that he's so self-involved and so woe is me and so full of shame that he can't see that they're right. You kind of just blew my mind there, Sully. That's interesting. Well, this is the confusing part about a

Addiction, right? And this is the confusing part about people who are addicts and people who love addicts. Yeah. Meeting, finding common ground about who you are.

and who you want to be. Because he, again, we talked about this in the last episode, he's also not wrong. Yeah, currently, you are not behaving. You're not acting like yourself. Right. Yeah. You are not living up to the highest level of who you are as a human being. Sure. Wow. But all of this is necessary to arrive at a place where you turn around and go back the other direction, right? Rock bottom.

Rock bottom is only where you stop and turn around and go back the other way. -Yeah. -It's different. It's different for all these other people. But there's all of these-- This episode is just full of them, right? His need to be with someone, his need to be touched by someone, his need to be seen, his need to be saved from drowning. That's all these, like, as Kevin reaches out and, like, hooks up with this person or gets in bed with this person, he's like, "I'm drowning.

are you a life jacket yeah are you a life preserver yeah and addiction as it uh as a broad idea isn't just like pills or alcohol or sex or whatever whatever the thing is that you're you're attaching to to try and to try and save yourself the real problem becomes these character defects

Right? Which is this attachment to shame, this attachment to, I'm a piece of shit. I don't deserve any of this. I don't. It's all, that is what you become addicted to. Right. This way of thinking that then leads you to like, well, if I think this way and it must be true, then maybe I'll just behave that way. Yeah. So that everything lines up. Yeah. And what we see in the beginning of this episode is,

is the very beginnings of like a self-centered, someone who's trying to save himself. He is developing a coping mechanism, which is confidence, which quickly turns into arrogance. You know, with the coach, they show him in the hallway, they show the high seat. It's this coping mechanism that becomes a defense mechanism

And then as he gets older, it becomes such a part of his personality that it turns into this defective process where he, it doesn't work. It works for a while until it doesn't. And then he has to add all this other stuff, drugs, alcohol, whatever the thing is. - Yes. Thank you for that. - Thank you. - Thank you for that. I think that is an incredible insight. - Distillation and insight into- - 'Cause we all know Kevin is a good person. - We absolutely do. - For sure.

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sort of relate to is the idea of people don't always look for the fullness of your humanity. They may see the highest version of yourself, even though you're trying to say like, that's not who I am right now. Sure. Like, could you see me for who I am right now? Sure. Because actually the person that I am right now needs help.

- Yeah. - Sure. - Right? But I feel like-- - It needs that acknowledgement. - There's an idealized version of like, because there's some level of celebrity that folks are just like, "Oh, everything you do is dope." - Right. - And he's trying to say like, "Everything I do is not

- Right. - Although what you're saying is also true. - But the selfishness of the situation is like, well then don't come here, like mistreat this crowd of people. - Sure, yeah. - Like have some humility, have some respect. - This is not the spot to-- - Have some gratitude. - Right.

humility, respect and gratitude are the antidotes to all of these other things we've been talking about. - That ails him, yeah. - I mean, I can tell you, there was a time early on when I had just quit drinking where I was so self-involved, so woe is me, so down on myself that I inadvertently caused a scene at a very good friend's wedding. And I didn't cause a scene,

I diverted attention because people were like, what's up with, why is he, why is he so down? That's not Chris. Chris isn't a down person. Right. And it didn't occur to me because I was so involved in my own bullshit to like set that aside and celebrate. Yeah. And I had to have like a conversation with that, with that friend and her husband afterwards to make amends for,

to apologize for that person who showed up who wasn't there for them, who was thinking about himself. So Sully will talk quite openly about times before we got a chance to meet him about drinking and how he stopped drinking. And every once in a while, I'll have a cocktail. He's like, no, just have a sparkling water or whatnot. I was like, oh yeah, that's right. Sully didn't know. And it's always like mildly shocking because the person that I know

who's like in front of us today or whatnot, is so incredibly introspective and thoughtful that you have a tough time imagining the person that you describe. Any other version of you. Yeah. It's hard to imagine any other version. The anecdote I just gave was during season one of this show. Which is wild because I don't feel like I ever...

Saw that side. Listen, listen. It was a process, right? And I was going through all of that. I mean, I quit drinking in between the shooting of the pilot and when we started shooting. That's what. You know what I mean? So it was all through the first three, four seasons of the show, me trying to figure this stuff out. On top of being a part of something that is taking you on this crazy stratospheric ride, right? So as we talk about on this show, holding.

joy yeah and grief yeah never before in my life had i been asked to hold the most joy i could have possibly held with this

the greatest thing that's happened to me in my career with the literally rock bottom of my personal life. Don't forget Taserface. I won't. Okay. I'll never forget Taserface. I mean, it's metaphorical. I just want to make sure. Okay. Wow, Sully. Wow! You're miraculous. But I just, that's why sometimes I have a hard time expressing to people like what this show means to me because it was a literal show.

You know, it was a literal manual on how to live a connected life where I turn towards people instead of turning away. Wow. I love that.

i did not expect that to happen in this episode but i'm very happy that it did there's a reason why this episode means a lot to me yeah and why why i think justin is so good so damn good in this episode and it's and it's it's a different mirror yeah yeah all right so wait let's continue because after the speech happens why not

He winds up taking a walk with the doctor and they're outside. Yeah. He's hurting. He says something. He's reaching for anything. He says, "I feel like I could be standing completely naked out here and all anyone would see is me and that number one jersey." 'Cause he talks about how, you know what my number was? My number was one. Was one. And he goes, "Did you pick?" And I was like, "No, they just gave it to me." And they called me number one in my family 'cause I was the first to walk, et cetera, et cetera.

And she says to him, well, that's not all that I see. Yeah, she makes a move. And he says, please don't do that. See you, Charlotte. And he gets up and he leaves. He goes out to the football field. Man, listen. With a bottle of wine. And he gives the performance of the series. Yeah.

-Truly. -I mean... -For real. -For real. It's... He winds up sort of reliving the day that we were talking about in the past when he's on the football field and... What happened? Because we don't know. Pearson can do no wrong. He's doing great. He's already ran for two touchdowns, thrown for what have you. And it looks like everything's gonna go right and he takes the snap and he goes back and wait a minute, the rush is coming and boom.

Like his knee folds under him, his knees wrecked. Will he get up again just in time to bury his beloved father? Well, then he goes on, he cheats on his girlfriend. Then he gets a sitcom that pays him millions. Keep going. And even when he tries to tell people how pathetic he is, they don't listen to him. And what you're talking about is that sort of like the shame cycle that he is in in that moment. But he's articulating it in a way

- I just want to go back to this. Like when you are by yourself, especially on set versus on stage where you have the invisible cast member known as the audience, there's an energy that transfers even when you're like delivering a soliloquy. When you're on set by yourself, I guess you have A and B camera operator. You're like, maybe I can give something to them and they'll feel it. 'Cause every once in a while, you'll get the cameraman to come up to you and be like, "Hey, that shit was really good." And you'd be like,

Thank you. Oh, that's something. Thank you so much. Thanks, James. Yeah. We all know that. Yeah. Because you buy yourself, you have no idea how it's going. Yeah. This man proceeds to bare his soul by himself, and it is an extraordinary

extraordinary piece of acting. Feet, yeah. Extraordinary. So he's down on his knees, completely crumbled, whatnot. And young Kelly, who we've seen throughout the episode, who's very good, by the way, whoever played her. Yeah, she was great. She comes up to him and says, "I've been looking for you. Do you want to party?" Right?

And like, you can feel as an audience member, I was like, don't do it. Oh, no. Oh, Kevin. Don't go with the high schooler. Please. Because we come back from commercial break. And he's in bed with someone. And he's in bed with someone. And like, it's probably one of the creepiest sort of like. Reveals.

misdirects, thankfully, you know what I'm saying? Because it winds up being Charlotte and not Kelly, where you go like, okay. - Thank you. - Yeah. You're like, this is still not worked out. - Still not good. It still hasn't worked out. - It's not great. - This was not the healthiest choice. - Not the healthiest choice.

But so he's talking and he's still, he's clammy, he's bearded up and she's just snuggled up, happy as can be. I can't believe this is happening. - Yeah, like fantasy fulfilled. - He gets up to go to the bathroom, right? And just like,

Just immediately starts rummaging through her medicine cabinet, looking for pills, looking for something to use, etc. Comes out of the bathroom after flushing the toilet to make it sound like he went to the bathroom. He's like, you know what? I actually may just be a little hungry. You got anything we can whip up in the kitchen, what have you? And she's like, yeah, I can make something real quick. He winds up rummaging through all of her stuff, looking just, you don't even know what he's looking for to a certain extent, right? I think he's just looking for pills. And then he finds the script pad.

And you're like, and he takes off, he rips off a sheet, puts it in his pocket and fucking leaves. Like, no, I gotta go. No, just goes, right? So next time we see him, he's in the drugstore and he's got the prescription thing filled out and he's waiting to go up

And there's a little paranoia that's beginning to set in. Cops come in from outside and they're just doing whatever they're doing in the drugstore. But in his head, he's like, "Oh, God, this is kind of bad." So a couple of times throughout the episode, you'll see he'll sort of just like reach up and grab his necklace. And it's sort of a comforting touchstone for him. And as the cops are there, he reaches up to grab and he's like, "Oh, I don't have my necklace." So he goes back to Charlotte's house.

Charlotte, can you let me in? I left my dad's necklace. Like, could you please let me in? She sticks her head out the window. Like, what are you doing here, bro? Like, you just left. Like, you expect me to let you back in? And maybe I misspoke earlier about the football field scene. This is the performance of the series. Oh, I'll say both of those. On her front lawn. Both. Because, and I'm, I gotta like take a moment here because there is the vulnerability of like,

him asking for his necklace. And he's like, "It's the only thing I have left of my dad." Right? "Could you please just look for it, please? I just need this necklace." Right? Because he says over and over again, "Can't you see I'm in pain here? I just need somebody to help me." Yeah. "Can you help me?" And somebody just huddled over- In a ball. In a ball. On the lawn, just completely crumbled. Yeah.

As a human, it's... I don't think we ever see Kevin like this ever again. I don't think so. This is Rock Bottom. Welcome to Rock Bottom. Welcome to Rock Bottom. On the front lawn of a stranger's house. And did she throw it out? Like, how does... No. We don't ever see him get it back. We don't see him get it back. In this episode. I...

I don't remember. So when he comes to Randall's house. Is it back? That's a good note. We have to find that out. I'm not 100% sure. Well, let's continue watching the show, shall we? We'll keep watching the show. So because the episode ends with him coming to Randall's house. Again, like, because he had called Kate before to try to, like, have someone help him out. Now you see him at his brother's doorstep, and he's clearly looking. Maybe he's going to ask for help. He's looking. He's like,

asking for help and uh randall tells him like hey man i i already know and kev's like no what he's like kate lost the baby and that's the end of the episode well it ends with with um right with the flashback flashback too it's like who's gonna walk next he's like come on number two number two and we're setting it up for kate's episode so what that means

One of my favorite episodes. Yeah. Shout out to Justin, to Ken, to Yasu, to everybody. Who wrote this? Who wrote this, John? One of our favorites. KJ Stiner. Of course it was KJ. Man, KJ's a beast. KJ's a beast. We're going to have to have some writers on. Oh, we do. KJ, Becca, KJ.

Yeah. We have beasts in the writer's room. Please come and join us so that we can talk in depth about the episodes. But KJ was an OG. Yeah. Like K, like Isaac and Elizabeth. KJ the whole time. Whole time. Front to back. Yeah. I remember reading it. I was like, KJ, you wrote something special. And just real quick to Justin, who's off tracking people on CBS or whatnot. Just being a gigantic television guy. I'm a tracker backer, by the way.

- A tracker backer? - Yeah, I'm a trackie. I'm trying to name his fans. - A trackie? - The dude is like, when you go and tell him stuff, like they say, "Oh, thanks man." - Oh, it's such a deflection. He's like, "Yeah." - He's so like under. - The radar. - But I remember we were gonna all go out to eat. John and Glenn had this restaurant and he had invited a couple of us to go grab a bite. And he's like, "No, I gotta work on this episode."

Right? Like he couldn't go, like, cause he was so focused and understandably so. Like it was a daunting one to carry and he executed it beautifully. Yeah. Beautifully. We love you, Justin. Thank you so much for this episode and for all six years, but this, this was exceptional. Yeah. Um, we'll be right back with more. That was us. Yeah.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the fan segment of the show. And today we have a letter from a fan named Lori. - Yes. - Yeah, in this episode. She wrote in because she had a real connection to Kevin's storyline, especially as it relates to his journey with addiction. Yeah. And so we thought that we would just read you the letter. The letter speaks for itself. Dear Mandy, Sterling, and Chris, I joined the This Is Us fan base a little late, starting in 2018 during season three.

After getting hooked, I quickly binged the first two seasons to catch up because I didn't want to miss out on what all my friends were talking about. There were so many storylines and characters that resonated with me deeply, but I'll highlight a few that left a lasting impact.

Growing up, my dad struggled with alcoholism much like Jack and his father, so that storyline hit home. Kevin's journey with addiction was especially profound for me. At the time, I was recovering from an addiction to painkillers, codeine, which my doctor prescribed for migraines, but it wasn't long before I started taking them not just for the physical pain, but to numb some emotional pain as well.

I had just left a toxic relationship, was living alone, and was a busy career woman with no children but caring for plenty of fur kids, my pets, who were relying on me. I knew I had to pull myself out of the dark place, so I weaned off the painkillers over several months without rehab or even letting anyone close to me know what I was going through. The withdrawal symptoms were brutal.

insomnia, all over pain, nighttime leg tremors and restlessness. During that difficult time and those sleepless nights, This Is Us was my lifeline. Binge watching episodes helped distract me from the physical distress and the beautifully written relatable characters provided me some much needed comfort. I'm proud to say I overcame my addiction to painkillers and would never go back. Watching Kevin battle his addiction

demons at the same time as I was battling mine was incredibly cathartic. And I noticed how every character had their own addictions, whether with food, control, perfectionism, or substance abuse. Each struggle mirrored some of my own experiences. And it reminded me how universally human those battles are.

beyond the addiction themes so many of the characters resonated with me like kate i was also the only girl in a family with two brothers and i was bullied as a child by mean girls who i thought were my friends the pool scene made me cry and kate's toxic relationship with mark mirrored my own teenage experience with an abusive boyfriend i also related to randall's anxiety being a type a control freak myself

I understand how crippling it can be when life spirals out of control, as it often does. And somehow, as Randall learned to let go, I did too. The relationships in the show were just as meaningful to me. Jack and Rebecca's love was the kind most of us can only dream of, while Randall and Beth were the ultimate team showing us how a true partnership filled with love, laughter, and respect should be.

Even Toby and Kate's journey, though sad at the end, I appreciated the very honest and relatable depiction for so many couples who grow apart despite the strong love they share and ultimately separating turns out to be what's best for everyone involved. The sibling conflict between Randall and Kevin resonated with me too, as I've had similar disagreements with my brother, especially around the care of our elderly parents. And Sophie and Kevin's love story?

Well, it touched my heart because I ended up with my childhood love after many unhealthy relationships and years spent alone. Beyond the writing, acting, and directing, one of my favorite things that I don't think enough credit is given to is the show's fabulous wardrobe, music, and props.

As a Gen Xer, having grown up in the 70s and 80s, the nostalgia it brings back makes the whole story come alive even more. A lot has changed in my life since that last episode aired. Last year, I became very ill with long COVID, which has left me mostly bedbound and housebound as I slowly try to recover.

Revisiting This Is Us has been a source of comfort again during hard times. With this latest rewatch, I'm noticing new things, appreciating all the little magical moments sprinkled throughout the big plot lines that make the show so special. I did my series rewatch before the podcast came out, but now I'm starting all over again.

One episode a week to relive it all over again with you when the Tuesday podcast drops. Thank you for creating such an incredible show that has been and continues to be such a comforting gem to me personally. Thank you for showing up each week for the podcast, for the priceless insights and behind the scenes commentary. It's been a joy to revisit with you and get a glimpse into the real people behind these beloved characters.

It's easy to see now how you were able to bring them to life so brilliantly. With immense gratitude, Lori. Ah, Lori, we mirror that immense gratitude back to you. Amen. I know we were going to let this letter speak for itself, but I will just say really quick, Lori, I'm very glad that you made it through. But this letter reminds us

that we are not alone and that you do not have to go through this alone. And that sometimes going through something like withdrawal alone can actually be very dangerous. So if you are looking to make a change in your life, you can ask for help. Yeah. Reach out. There are, there are places you can go. There are people who will help you so that you don't have to do this alone. And there are people in your life who love you, who will help,

support you through that. Yeah, they don't want to see you do it alone either. This letter connected us with Lori. And now I feel less alone. Yeah. Having heard her story. True story. If anybody else wants to connect with us, please feel free to email us at thatwassuspod at gmail.com. Or you can leave us a message on our emotional support hotline. It's 412-501-3028. We would love to hear from you.

That's it for this episode of That Was Us. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll see you again next week. Take care. Thanks, friends.

Welcome back to our Retread segment. Retread is brought to you by Peloton. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton. On this episode of the podcast, we gave Justin Hartley his flowers. I mean, this Retread could just be Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin. We could call it This Justin. This Justin. This Justin. Justin Hartley.

Justin did. Justin did so hard. He was absolutely beautiful in terms of just seeing someone hitting rock bottom. We also heard from Sully and your own personal experience and being so incredibly vulnerable, pouring out your soul, burying your soul. We say it time and time again, naked with his clothes on. Just trying to feel less alone. Yeah.

We had a wonderful letter in our fan segment from Lori. Just a love fest to all the different facets of the show, but how she related to Kevin in particular and his addiction. We're wishing you all the best. And she's rewatched it so many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Finding new little details. You are not alone. Amen. You are loved. Yes. You are capable of being loved and you are capable of loving others. Amen.

Men, this retread is brought to you by Peloton. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Da-da-da-dum, da-da-dum, that was us.