RE-RELEASE - Jon Huertas and Us | Miguel Rivas
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Hey, everybody. Chris Sullivan here with another re-release episode for our holiday break here on That Was Us. Today, we are listening back to one of my favorite episodes, our interview with our favorite person, John Huertas.

who played Miguel on the show. We also refer to him as the most interesting man in the world. You'll soon learn why. He is a man of many talents. We get into him studying musical theater while he was in the Air Force. And that right there would be enough for anybody to be the most interesting person in the world.

We also talked to him about an interesting audition experience where he later realizes that Norman Lear was sitting over there. He finds out from hair and makeup that he's married to Rebecca in the future and many, many other stories. It's one of my favorite interviews that we've done. It came out early on. So here is a chance to listen again. Hope you're all having a good holiday. We will be back with new episodes on January 21st.

Welcome to a very special episode of That Was Us. We have a very special guest in the house today. Everybody's favorite stepdad.

Slash caretaker, slash dad's best friend, slash just all around homie. Ladies and gentlemen, we're talking about John Huertas. Welcome to the show. - Thanks guys. Thanks for having me. - Miguel Rivas. - Thank you for being here, man. - That's right. - I wanna start off with something that I was asking. We were talking in episode 108, and we were talking how early on in the show,

like the public perception of Miguel was not the most positive, shall we say? - We could say that. - They didn't have the information they needed. - They didn't have the information they needed. - I was like, if they could flash forward to season six and see that Miguel episode. - Slow burn, guys. - Slow burn. - The first question I have to Huertas as the actor

Was that sort of like dislike from the public of the character internalized in any shape, form or fashion? Did you have any feeling about it as you were going through it and people were like, nah, dude, that ain't right. You shouldn't have got with your best friends. You know, did you have any feelings? You know, I think, you know, first of all, when the audience reacts the way they react, it's something that we as actors can sometimes take personally. Sure, sure, absolutely. And, you know, you learn...

When you study acting you learn that you know, is that it I did But you want people to like you want people like your character even if you're the villain like sure you wanted to You know love to hate you or whatever and so

you know that reaction was something that was a little bit jarring but at the same time as an actor you like to be challenged too sure so i i i wanted to take on the challenge of saying all right you guys don't don't like this character now yeah uh can we get them back watch this exactly did you okay let's take it back to the very very beginning what was your experience like

being cast on the show? What was, did you read the script? Did you just meet with Dan? Like, what was, how did it go down? Good one. So I was, I was on a show before that. What was the name of that show? Castle. Oh! Okay, both for both.

- We'll be acting all incognito. We know where the show is. - That's where I met you. - I know. I did an episode of Castle when we got a chance to kick it. It was fun. - That's right. So that show had gone down and I was like, oh shit. And I needed a job. - I need a job. - And so, you know, calls started coming in and I was doing this chemistry read with Justina Mercado for

- Love this thing. - Yeah, yeah, she's great. For "One Day at a Time" for Netflix. And so same casting director as "This Is Us." And so you guys had shot the pilot. I was still doing "Castle," whatever. And so I didn't know what the show was, but I kept doing this. I did two chemistry reads.

And Norman Lear, who I think we're gonna bring up later, I didn't realize he was in the room when I was doing it. I just thought it was Bring Your Grandpa to Work Day. I swear to God, there was an old dude sitting over there with a hat on. And I was like doing my thing with Justina. By the way, I've known Justina for like two weeks. You got a chance to audition for Norman Lear? Yes. It's like, who's this old dude in the corner? Anyway. I did. I was like, who's this dude? So I'm talking to Justina. And...

Suddenly, the old dude was like, "John, can you do it again? But I want you..." Why is he talking to me right now? Director's here, showrunner's here.

- So I'm looking at this. - Who is this guy weighing in? - Again, a little insight into our industry. You walk into these rooms, nobody tells you anything that's going on. - Right. - But also it's- - They're just like, "Go in there and act." - Right, and it's lit. - Yeah. - They've got almost, it's like a set. So it's me and her on set. So it's lit and it's kind of dark like this. - At no point does someone say, "But just so you know, Norman Lear is in there." - No, John is like, "Hey, okay." - No, of course not. Nobody told me a legend was in there. - I'm trying to audition you.

I was like, I got it, bro. Thanks, man. And so he said, he goes, and by the way, it's a sitcom, a multi-cam sitcom, double-spaced words. You know, that's like, there's a certain style of acting. Yeah, there's a cadence. Right. Sure. And so he was like, I want to feel like you're trying to rip her head off her body. Intense. That's the normal.

Okay. And so I did it again. And I wouldn't... So I didn't do his... No, I didn't do his note. You didn't do his note. I just did my thing. I'll do it my way. You know what I mean? I'm making my choices, bro. If you don't like it, cool. Brass ones. Brass ones. But I didn't know it was him. Because everybody else is liking my shit. So then I leave. And I get a call and they're like, yeah, John, they want you to come back and do it again because...

because everyone loved what you were doing, except Norman Lear thought that you just weren't getting to where he wanted. I was like, "Who? Norman what? That was the old man?" 'Cause I thought Norman Lear was like, he was 94 when we were sitting in that room. - That hat's the giveaway. - Yeah. - If you see an old man in a hat. - That's the signature. - That's Norman Lear. - It was either him or Woody Allen. - Yeah, exactly.

And he's canceled, so I know he wouldn't be. He wouldn't be in the room. Right. But yeah, so I was like, that was Norman Lear. Oh my God. So then I go back, but I still didn't want to, because I didn't want to play a Latinx character. I hear you. That was, you know, a...

an abuser. I didn't want to portray that type of character at that time in my career. So I did it the second time the exact same way. Norman was there again. This time I knew who he was. I was like, yes, Mr. Lear. And he gave me the note. He was like, I just don't feel like you want to kill her.

Because it's not on the page, man. - No, it don't. - Like it's comedy. - So wait, I'm curious, like did you say that or did you just say? - I didn't. I just said, I'll give it a go. And then I did it my way again. And then as I left and I was like, I don't care. Like I really don't. Like I'm not gonna play an abuser. And so as I'm leaving, I'm driving away, my agents call and they say, hey, can you get to Paramount in 45 minutes? They're trying to add this new character to this show.

show This Is Us. - Are you kidding me? - Yeah. So I was like, and I don't like to go in for anything unprepared. And I was like, but it was, you know, it was Telsey. I was like, you know, their office and I love them. So they were like, they think you could do this. And so I drove up there.

to Paramount and they were having meetings with other guys. - Where was the Norman Lear audition? Where was the one day? - Sony. - At Sony. - But I was driving back to Venice and then I got the call to turn around and go back to Paramount. - Okay, got you. - And so they were seeing people. - The LA geography, got you. - Yep, they were seeing people and I walked in and I was like, is there any material? Do I need to like read? They were like, yeah, yeah. And I see other guys there. Now all the other guys are like 45 to 50, salt and pepper hair and white.

And I was like, they want to make sure they see at least one. So they could say, we tried, babe. That's what I thought it was. I literally did. And they're all looking at their side. And you have no side. So you're like, oh, I'm unprepared. I have nothing to read. Right. And so I go down the hall asking somebody, so is there sides for me? I mean, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll go get you some real quick. And then all the other guys were like...

Yeah, just four pages. So they literally handed me some sides and I was like... This is not fair. And like 10 minutes I'm going into the room. And I go into the room and it's John and Glenn, Ken... And Norman Lear. And Norman Lear. And Dan Fogelman. He has nothing to do with this, son. How did he get here faster than me? So...

All those guys were in there and I walked in and then they just started like talking to me and like, we started laughing. Dan Fogelman was like, my dad's a huge fan of yours. He loves Castle. It was this whole thing. And they were like, do you want to read? And I was like, not really. And so I just got this stuff. And they were like, yeah, don't worry about it. Amazing. Yeah. The world's easiest audition. Do you want to? No, thanks. No, I'm good.

God, I wish that were opposed to me every audition. I'd be like, yeah, I'm good. I don't want to. This is it. No, and then I left. This is what you're asking for. I left. I got a call. They're like, yeah, man, you're the one. They're going to put you on the show. And then I was like, so then I was chilling for a couple of weeks. You're like, God, this job is so easy. Right? I've been trying too hard. That's the problem. And then I get a call. They want you to go up to the valley, deep valley, to this makeup, special effects makeup house. And they're going to do a live cast.

I was like, this isn't Star Trek. This is us. I watched the trailer. I was one of the 50 million people that watched the trailer. I'm not an alien. And so I go up there and I'm like, I'm asking them when I get there, I'm like, why are you doing a life cast? And they're like, oh, for the old age makeup. And I was like, old age makeup? They're like, yeah, you're married to Rebecca in the future. And I'm like, they think I'm Milo. No, I don't play Jack. I play Mike.

- Mike. - I play Mike. - That was his name initially. - Michael. - That was it. - Michael with the salt and pepper hair. - And they were like, no, no, no, no. You're married to Rebecca in the future. What? I didn't even know. So then they- - That's how it was broken to you. - Yes, they broke it to me while I'm getting stuff slathered on my face. - You probably knew before a lot of us. You knew before I did, that's for sure. - Oh really? - Yeah. - Clearly. - So that's how that got on the show. That's the story. I'll see you guys later.

That was it. That's all we wanted. Thank you. Are you serious? You never read. No. He didn't need to. Because I didn't have any time to prepare. Well, no, no. I was going to look like an asshole. But the vibe, like, did you know anybody else in the room before? Did you know John and Glenn? Did you know Dan? Did you know Ken? No.

- No. - You knew nobody. - You just knew the cast and characters. - But you just charmed the hell out of them. - Did you know that you'd just done 12 seasons of a hit TV show? - They knew that. - Yeah, exactly. - Eight episodes, eight seasons. - Eight seasons. - Eight seasons of the show. - Don't worry, I know how to do this. - But I will say this, like John is kind of that dude. Like John is anywhere you go,

you'll be like, "Oh, you know Huertas? You know my boy Huertas?" Jon is that connector wherever you are. - You are the mayor of this town and this industry. It's true. - It's true. - I can attest we all picketed during the SAG strike last year together quite a bit. And we couldn't walk five feet without somebody being like, "Jon!" - And any event I go to, I'm just like, "Jon will probably be there." - Yeah.

- Or you meet someone. - Oh, that's right. - Someone will come up to me, they'll be like, "I'm really good friends with somebody that you worked with." I'm like, "John Martez?" They're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "You're just that guy." - You are an affable, kind, genuinely curious human being. So I'm saying that you being in that room, of all people not to have to read, I get it. - It makes sense. - And a man with a constitution who could handle the first season or two of the Miguel unveiling. - Brunt.

So it was like you guys are saying he probably just left it off, but you're saying like, no, you felt it a little bit.

I mean, I felt it, but I loved, I wanted to embrace that challenge. Like, it's like, yeah, let's turn them around. Let's figure it out. Like, it's going to be fun. And was there any solace provided to you by Dan or the writers of, like, this is where the story is going? Like, be patient or just, like, stick it out? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Dan, I would have a sit down with him at the beginning of every season and Isaac and Elizabeth as well once they took over. And we would just talk about, like,

they would assure me like, "We're gonna turn some people around." It's such an interesting position to be in because the audience response at first is literally because of nothing that is circumstantial. Just because of the circumstance that they see. Every time we hear you speak, every time you interact, you're a great, you're this wonderful guy. And then you're put in this like fast forward position of like, "Wait, what the fuck is happening here? What is happening here?" Yeah.

There was that conspiracy floating around for a while. I'm sorry. Did people think that? Oh, yeah. I mean, people thought a lot of crazy things. I kept saying it on red carpet. Because I got tired of asking a question like, what's going on with Miguel and John? I'm like, well, Miguel clearly killed John. And they would be like, really? And I'd be like, no. No, guys. Guys, no. Stop. And I'd go like this. Wink. I'd say wink, and then I would wink. And yeah.

- So this is interesting. You along with Mandy are like the only people that really got a chance to span timelines. I would ask Mandy this question sometimes in terms of like, what's the difference in vibe between past and present or whatnot. Let me ask you the same thing. Like when you guys are back in the day, is it a completely different vibe than when you're working with like the adult Pearsons or whatnot? Or like, is it similar? Or how would you describe differences, similarities?

I don't think we approached it that differently. Not the approach, but the vibe. Oh, the vibe was definitely different. Yeah, the vibe was definitely different. That's what I'm asking. How would you describe the difference? I don't know. Do you remember when we first were in our old age makeup? Yeah. And we were like...

all right, how do we play old people? Older people. And we kind of didn't, because, you know, there's the Saturday Night Live version where it's like, hey, come here. We didn't do that, but we talked about it. And I think we like, I would just stare at Steve Beers. Yeah.

and just soak it in. Soak it in. Watch him move. Watch the way he eats. You have to explain who Steve Beers is. Steve Beers has been working in television since 1932. He is a legendary television producer. He is legendary. He worked with a lot of people that I worked with before, but he worked on the 18-

- Yeah, I mean, he's just- - He talks about that a lot. - That's '70s. I mean, that's like- - He worked on a lot of stuff. - 21 Jump Street. - So he was the- - 21 Jump Street, yes. - The elder on our set. Like he, if anybody was gonna be a model for me, it was gonna be him. - I didn't ever know that, Jon. - Yeah, I would, that's why you guys didn't see me always talking to him. - You just hanging out in the production office, just like looking in his office. - Yeah, I did. But also I think we talked about it. We were like, if we could just,

- Take our time. Like we know that people who are older take their time with everything. When they speak, before they answer, they would just, so I think that was like the vibe. It's like, - They just won't pick it up. - I will say,

My experience was we didn't have too, I mean, over the years, I guess we definitely had like some time where we were together as like younger people. It was Jack and Rebecca. And then obviously you were with Shelly. Yeah. Wild times at Froggies. Yeah, totally. But there wasn't a ton of that. Like when we worked together, it usually was present day. Yeah. But I,

I feel like the set with Milo and the kids and stuff was always a little bit more like, let's get down to brass tacks. Let's do the work. It was way more of a party. I always felt I was like, oh, we're with everybody. We're present day. Even feeling encumbered with the makeup and the process and being there so much earlier and all of that came along with it.

it was always like, oh, I'm gonna be with John and Justin and Sterling and Chris, and it's gonna be a laugh a minute. Like we're all gonna like really. - And you were trying to keep your face wrinkles glued on. - Yeah, I would try to like not laugh so much because I was. - Which is a real insult, which really got John going.

It would make me try harder. Yeah. Like, stop making me laugh or smile. I'm going to pop those prosthetics. Whose process is longer? Mine. How long did you... You'd started at what and they ultimately got it down to what? It started at like... Six for me. Yeah. Yeah. Same. It was like five or something. And it ultimately got down to like three and a half. Five hours? Mine was three. Yeah.

- John's was a little bit quicker. - Yours started at five hours? - Mine started at six hours, 'cause they were acting like fools putting all that stuff on me. - Was it the hair or was it the prosthetics? - It was everything, the hair, the prosthetics, it was all like, the whole process was long. - It became a well-oiled machine. - Yeah, it finally became, and they also-- - You did request those full body prosthetics just to get you in the character. - I wanted my knees to be bold and stuff. - Just your knees, yeah.

I don't care if the audience can't see it. I see it. I know it. I feel it. It's my character. I got to feel it. I got to be in him. Bunions in your shoes. But yeah, I think they put a lot... Like at the beginning, I had a lot of prosthetics on. I had like a full long jaw thing. So they lightened everything. You had the waddle. I remember the waddle. Yeah. But I came in once at like two in the morning to start my process because it was... Two? Yeah, like first season or second season. I went to... Crew call was at...

- I went to lunch, 'cause SAG-AFTRA. I had to go to lunch after six hours. So I'm at lunch while everybody's at breakfast. And then at work, we break for lunch again. - John was on child action time. We only have him for three hours today. - You did that at two o'clock call? - It was like two or three. - I remember. - You had a three something call. - Nope. - Two or three. - When we shot the therapy scene in season two, it was a 2:30 call. - 2:30, it was 2:30. - 2:30 because of light, daylight hours. - Wow. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. That's the earliest I've ever been called.

- I don't complain that much. - It is what it is, but. - I don't, but like, any time I think to do it, I was like, maybe, and two and 2:30. - Jon was my, you were my comrade in this like, I mean, we did this for six seasons. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And Jon, I mean, you guys got a little flavor of it at the end, but like, this was our every day. And Jon always had the best attitude, but also I love that Jon, you were like, rip it off at the end of the day.

- At the end of the day you were like, I just, I don't care. I'm like, I have to protect my skin and you were like, I don't care. - She wanted to do like spa, like a spa day at the end of the day. I'm like, I've been in shit for 12 hours. Like what chemicals do you have? I want that one. - Yeah, yeah. - That one's got the skull, skull and crossbones on it. - Is that Liza to get it off? - Yeah. - Put the lie on my face. - I would get out of there in like 10 minutes and she'd be like,

- I was like, he's done? - Like half an eyebrow. - He's like, hey man, I got like, like crow feet. I ain't got no crow lines or whatnot. I was like, what the fuck is this makeup doing to my face, man? I don't know what's going on. - Oh, it ruined me. - Same. - You guys look fantastic. - Oh, you're kind. - Nothing is ruined. The money is perfect. - All we could talk about, like, we're gonna get CO2 laser treatment. It's gonna be on the production.

We never got there. I remember that. Never happened. Resurfacing. CO2 resurfacing. Yeah, you fixed my skin for this. Yeah. Didn't happen. It did not happen. Did not happen. More That Was Us after this short break.

I want to fast forward a little bit. So for fans who are only just like watching along and they've gotten up to like 109 or what have you, I'm going to fast forward because I want to talk about Miguel and sort of like the arc of his character and everything that he went through and where he ultimately ended in terms of fan appreciation as well. Because I honestly do think, did you feel the love in the end?

Absolutely. Yeah, I got so much, you know, love after the Miguel episode. I mean, so many people reached out.

and they saw themselves in the character's story, especially when it comes to the caretaker storyline, but then also being Afro-Latino and finally telling a story that was pretty complete around that kind of identity. - Can I speak to it a little bit, just for a second, if I may?

'cause we all watched that episode together. - We did. - Dan had us... - I mean, we should come back and do a whole nother episode just to talk to you about that episode. - Oh, we will. - Oh, we will. - Yeah, we absolutely will. - Absolutely. - When we get there, for sure. - But we were at, what resort did he have? - San Ysidro Ranch? - Yeah. - Yeah, we were at the ranch, whatever. I can only come up for the day for some reason or not, but I'm so happy that I did because we all watched, we watched two episodes together. And the first was,

6:15 is Miguel's episode. And it was, tell me how you got the director because this was pretty cool story. Cause it was our girl Zetna who had directed like a couple of episodes before. And I think you saw her at the Paramount lot. And it's like, yo, we got this episode coming up. Like you should direct. And she being a Latina as well. I think it was like a perfect sort of symbiosis there.

Yeah. But she wasn't directing. She was taking a break from doing episodic. She was trying to just do pilots and features. She was like, yeah, my agents don't really want me. And then I'd said, this is an episode that speaks to who you and I are. You know, there's a lot of Afro-Latino elements in this, and it's all Puerto Rico all the time. And she was like, what? Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And she said, "Let me talk to my people." And then I told Dan and Jess, I was like, "Hey, I saw Zetna." And they're like, "We can't get her. We've been trying to get her back." And I was like, "She coming back, y'all." - 'Cause she talked to the man. - For John. - She talked to the man. The dude who does not have to read when they thought he had to read for shows. That episode, I mean, the capturing of an immigrant experience

in terms of like what America means to them, seeing sort of like the sort of divide between where you came from and where you are and how to sort of like meld those things together. 'Cause at a certain point they don't go together seamlessly. It's like, am I going to be like a capitalist sort of like

seize the day sort of American person or from a cultural thing, like it's more of a community based sort of thing. And those two things are at odds with one another. And to see your character sort of go through that and sort of become estranged from his family to a certain extent,

And then also be like, why did you bring me here? Like you brought us here so that we could have take advantage of everything that this country has to offer. And now it seems like you're sort of resenting that part. You wanna speak to it a little bit? - Yeah, I mean, first of all, Johnny who wrote that episode did such a great job. We had in the writer's room broke the episode, broke the story. And I remember just talking about all the ideas that we wanted to try to, you know,

like a list of ideas for the episode that I thought three of these will make in the episode. And somehow Johnny got almost everything in there. So that was a big, you know, thing. And a lot of it came from

you know, my own personal experience being, you know, an Afro Latino from, you know, moving from one city to another and having to kind of give up a piece of his identity to fit in and not be bullied or to hopefully, you know, make something of myself. And, you know, the whole blow drying my hair thing was, you know, from an incident where this kid called me pubic head. He said, because the hair on his, my head looked like the hair on his

- Yeah. - And I- - Penis. - On his penis. - Got it. - Well, the hair doesn't actually grow on the penis, but- - We understood. We understood. - Yeah. - The nickname was enough. - You know what I mean? So anyway, I got in a fight and we kind of got in trouble and started blow drying. Well, the fix was a woman who my mom knew blew dry my hair straight and now he looks

more white so you won't get picked on. So then I did that every day through high school and... - I need pictures, by the way. I need to see this. - I'll have some pictures when I do my one man musical. - Copy that. - But I gave up a piece of myself to appease, you know,

- This assimilation. - And so then that's, so we wanted to kind of try to, you know, bring some sort of element of that into the Miguel story and show that he's like giving, he gave up,

a part of who he was to become a capitalist. And, you know, if you remember, and especially in season one and two, like he was always trying to get Jack to kind of toe the line, do the same thing. Like, hey man, it's gonna be better for your family if you gotta join the country club or you gotta, you know, all of these things. And what was great is, you know, Jack didn't really give up himself like that. But Miguel was. And he lost his family due to it. And, you know, I liked it.

Miguel ended up having a full kind of circle moment because once I think once Jack died once he started getting too close to Rebecca he had to go and find himself yeah so that when he comes back he's a Better version of himself and he's you know prepared even more wealthy He is the most interesting man in the world there

There is this article that we got sent or that I found the other day. There's this thing. Did you, that's in this to you? No, I saw it. I saw it. You saw it. Someone sent it to me. This Norman Lear center on this is us caregiving storyline. This is what art is supposed to do. It's an exclusive. And they're talking about just how it sort of opened folks eyes to what caretakers go through. And it's like, we don't have enough depictions of it in art or what have you. My mom has ALS.

We have caretakers for her around the clock or whatnot. It's a thing. And I'm blessed to have a certain level of resourcefulness. As the Pearson family is blessed to have a certain level of resourcefulness that not most families do. Yeah, they talk about that in the article. They talk about that in the article. It's like we got to show people who don't have all these resources also what they have to go through in order to make it happen. It was opening people's eyes, but the study...

It was interesting because of our social media, it was the first time that they were ever able to measure this issue in a way that they had never been able. They couldn't figure out how to gather the information they needed to make a case for paid leave, for elder care, for all of these things. And because of this storyline-

through social media, they were able to come up with numbers and come up with people's like opinions and stories. - The social impact that this particular storyline had on the conversation at large. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Incredible. Yeah. - So I just wanna go back to the reaction back at the ranch that we were all in, because we'll go into that, but like,

When your tree, there's the tree that is sort of representative of you, which means that you have passed away, right? I let out this sound that I didn't recognize with myself. - You did it at the same time, right? - I think it was like me, I heard myself going, "Ha ha ha ha." - That's right. - And then I heard you go, "Ha ha ha ha." - Yeah. - He feels it too.

- After that episode, everybody in the room. - Was speechless. - It was so beautiful. - It was so emotional. - And I'm wondering, it must have been a good feeling to be front and center in that episode. - It was a really good feeling. What really felt good is that the execution of that episode to me was near perfect. It was like the direction, the writing, the casting, everything was just, and...

- Proof positive was the reaction that you guys had and that I had. 'Cause I didn't cry that much watching "This Is Us." I cried, I think, a total of three episodes. That was one of them. - Really? - Yeah. - You should try rewatching it because we are a mess. - It is hittin' different right now, bro. For real, for real. - All right, for sure, for sure. - But that one got you. - That one got me, for sure. - It was audible. It was like, I was like, I've made a fool of myself. And then I heard you and I was like,

But to be able to share that all together was so special too, because there are very few moments where we actually gathered as a group to watch the show.

and like celebrate the fruits of our labor. And it just, the culmination of, you know, six years, over a hundred episodes of all working together and to see your storyline sort of wrapped up in such a profoundly beautiful way was just, it was very, a memory I definitely will cherish. Yeah, me too.

Are there, not necessarily scenes, but in terms of experiences of the show throughout the six years, like anything stick out as particularly memorable, moving, funny, what have you, or even just like just the interplay of how it all went? Like what sticks out to you? - I mean, everything is so, every moment was just,

So everything kind of blends together. I mean, I think there's one scene when we were at that, when we were in Paso Robles and you and I were like in the back of this building kind of overlooking this vineyard and it was just like this

this kind of like bonding moment between a stepdad and his stepson. Of course, right after that, we ended up getting into an argument. But before that, it was like, it was just the beauty of this place that we were filming in and the moment. It's just an image that,

is like plastered in my brain somewhere. - There's a lot of good Randall Miguel moments in that final season. - Randall always was okay with Miguel. - Yeah, yeah. - Like there was a deep understanding of the role he played in their lives and the life of this family. And there was, I think the recognition of how happy he made Rebecca.

that it took Kevin a long time to get there. - So the beef between the two of them was different in terms of like how best to care for my mom. - Correct. - Like that's when things are. - Which happened later in life. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. That happened later in life, but that's- - But the initial, there wasn't that same initial rub that there was between Miguel and Kevin, which we just were watching back the Pilgrim Rick episode, which is where-

Miguel asked to wear the Pilgrim Rick hat and Kevin just like shuts him down immediately. Hey, Kevin, I know you guys. I was just wondering if this year, you know, could I wear that? Is that how Miguel talks? I don't know. That's how you played him. It was a choice. That was a choice. That didn't sound like Steve Beers to me. It's much quicker.

Much quicker. When we show this episode, we have to show one shot of our dear producer, Steve Beers, so that folks understand. What we're talking about. How terrible. I love that. But we spoke about the moment when he offers you the hat and the look on your face. It's just like, it was the first moment where I was like, oh, there's a story here. Yeah. I want to know more about this man. The audience doesn't know what's going on.

there's a lot they don't know about how these two have ended up together. But that look that you give him when he offers you the Pilgrim Rick hat, 'cause you just know how much time has passed. - Yeah. - And you can see it all in your face. And it's just, it's a testament to you as a performer, because it's just in your eyes and it's beautiful. - It's gorgeous. - Well, it was all on the page. I mean, incredible writers, so it's easy. - No, no, no. - No, we didn't. - You alone. - I'm talking about you.

with these two and Milo and Justin all had opportunities to direct This Is Us. You did two episodes? Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about your experience in directing, sir. Favorite actor on the show to direct. Stop. I don't want to do that to you guys. It's fine. It's fine. You don't have to say it. Lonnie. Ding, ding. Winner, winner. That's young me. Still counts.

No, which two did you direct? Which two did you direct? One was called Four Fathers. And what was the other one called? Was that me and William driving? No, that was later. There was one with you and William. I felt like that. When he came back after he had his lung transplant, he was much heavier. We were trying to match something from season two. So let's say that a little bit. So Ron Cephas Jones successfully had a double lung transplant.

- Yes. - Incredible. - That's incredible. - And was able to extend his life to the place where he could go do a play on Broadway. And like Mandy mentioned this before, Pilgrim Rick, we'd have to take breaks when we were doing these walks 'cause he would get tired. At the end of the season, he had these oxygen tanks that we just sort of incorporated into the show. And so he carried them around. And so the fact that,

experimental, like this was not something that had been commonplace at the time. He got the double lung transplant, it worked. I think a certain like nutrition, et cetera, filled out.

And his face got round. He just looked alive again. And he goes, yeah, Sterl, I got cheeks, man. He starts smacking his butt and smacking his face. And it just felt so lively. So when he's talking about trying to match, it's like he was a wisp. He was a buck 20 soaking wet. Got him to like 150 or something like that. Yeah, and we were shooting something that was a direct cut from one of those driving scenes. It was incredible to first of all just direct him because he was so...

- He's awesome. - A powerhouse of an actor, right? - Yeah. - My experience directing on the show was first of all, you guys are all so talented and so good. - Thank you. - Especially you, Chris. And I was like,

I'm a first time director. How are they going to feel? Sterling K. Brown, multi-Emmy winning mug. Taking some directing from John Huertas. Hey Sterling, let me talk to you about this moment. Yeah. I thought he was going to look at me like. That was a weird choice that you made. I thought he was going to look at me like, John, come back over there to the chair. But he was very, very, very open. We'll be right back with more That Was Us.

- You know as well as anybody else, like sometimes the idea is that if the director, early in your career, you want direction, you're sort of hungry for it all the time. You get to a place, or at least I'll speak for me, where you get to a place, all right, if they don't say anything that means they like what they see, I'll just keep along that, or maybe I'll play around a little bit or what have you. - I'm gonna check in with the sound guy, see if he liked it.

- Was it good? Did I look cool? Did I look cool when I said it? - But I'm wondering just because you brought it up. I've never been in a place where a director has come up and I'd be like, why are they walking up on me? I've never been like that. - No. - I'm curious to, 'cause an outside eye, I can only do so much. - I've been on a show where it was like that. - Really? - A couple times, at a castle.

And this director would ask me, "Hey, can you try this?" - Yeah. - And it's something I know I just did. - Who is this old man in the corner? - But they obviously, 'cause sometimes when you're directing, and I will say this, you've got three actors on, it's a wide shot, right? - Sure. - You have three actors.

I'm watching, you know, I might watch one actor. I'm focusing on this one because this is like kind of the fulcrum of the scene or whatever. So I'm watching this, and then I might, you know, and then I would say that maybe when I would be like, why is this person walking up on me is because I know that they probably weren't paying attention to what I was doing. And now they're saying, try this. Yeah.

- And you did that already. - And I did that already. And then I'd be like, so they'd walk away and I'd turn to the guy who played my partner, Seamus. I'd be like, I'm gonna do the same shit, watch this. And I would do it. And then I'd yell behind the camera, how was that? Was that what you were looking for? That was perfect, John. Thanks. And I'd look at Seamus like. - I'm done! - So there were some times when I would be like that. - I'm done!

You never have I, on This Is Us, I'll say. That explains your fear, by the way, that somebody was going to do this. Exactly. I would never do this. It's true. Even if I didn't understand the note, because I've had moments of not understanding the note. Sure. And I'm curious how we all deal with this, because in my mind, I'm like, all right, they said this. That doesn't make sense.

Now I have to figure out what it is that they mean and see if I can. And then I'll go ahead and do something. And then I'll ask them, is that what you're talking about? Nine times out of 10, I wind up sort of like getting hit in the butt. In the ballpark, yeah. No, but that'll work. You know what I'm saying? Because I just never want to...

The process I'm keenly aware is the one person who didn't direct of how much responsibility is in the director to make the day, right? To keep this ship moving, to get their shots, et cetera, et cetera. So like if I don't have to slow it down, I'm going to do my best not to slow it down. If I really don't understand, I'll be like, hold it. Let me say it one more time. I may do something like that, but only if I just have to like figure it out.

Yeah, and that's the thing. You don't want to be the one bogging it down. And that's why I always say to directors that are coming from behind the camera or coming from the editing bay, I'm like, yo, man, have you taken an acting class? Because it would be really beneficial if you knew our language. So if you want to get something from an actor to understand how to ask them for it instead of saying, can you do it again, but maybe this time? I don't know.

Faster or... No, maybe slower. No, you know what? If you... Let's just do it again. Although...

Although, I have gotten the, we're going to do it again, just faster. Oh, yeah. Sure. Let's take the air out. I never understood that until I directed an episode. Right. And I got into the edit, and the first person I called was John. I was like, John. You did this. When we were shooting this thing, it was great. And I'm watching this. It is garbage. So slow. I'm like, John, these are amazing actors. And what I have done is made garbage. And...

You didn't call me. I did. I called you. We talked about it. And I was like, I don't know what to do. And it was the first time in my life I was like, that's what directors are saying when they're like, just one faster. Or can you pace it up? You pace it up. Faster is a trigger word. Take that. Can you pace it up a little bit? Yeah, just to remind everybody on set, we're trying to get this story into 42 minutes. Okay, great. Let's go. Yeah.

Let's take the air out of it and let's do it one more time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take that pause off. Clearly you loved directing so much because you've really gone on and made that like a huge part of your life now. And so This Is Us was like your first experience directing. Yeah, an episode of television. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely my first experience directing. Just traffic before that.

- Yeah, I used to be a-- - Over this way. Get out of here. - Air traffic control. - Get out of here. - You shadowed Olin, I remember, 'cause we were doing, we were at the cabin again. Like, wasn't that the first, when you shadowed, were you shadowing Ken? - I think he-- - Yes, it was when we were introducing, it was the wedding of Kate.

Wasn't it? - Togi and Kate? - Yeah. - You were out there at the cabin. - I think you were shy when you were in. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. Yep. - What things did you learn from Ken not? - This is not a safe space for me. - You gotta speak in complete sentences. - It's fine. Ken doesn't know what a podcast is. - He doesn't know we're even doing a podcast. - Yeah, Ken doesn't know what a podcast is. You're right.

- No, I learned a lot of great stuff. - Look at you, you're so sweet. - He's so sweet. - So diplomatic. - I did. - You went on, you did Justin's show up in Canada. - Tracker. - He's done Tracker. - Tracker. - Have you done anything else? - I did The Company You Keep. - You did The Company You Keep with Milo. - Couple episodes of The Rookie, Rookie Feds. - Okay. - Yeah, I'm doing The Irrational. - Are you at a place now, is being in front of the camera still something of interest to you? - Only if it's something that

a friend is doing. - Okay. - Something very, very, very interesting or something I'm developing. - Okay. - But I like being behind the camera. - So you're not trying to be for hire as an actor? - Not as much. - Okay. - Yeah, I mean, it's gotta be something cool. Like I'm doing an animated show, which is cool. - Yeah.

For Disney, that's, you know, that's, it's a lot of fun. It's a Latinx show. It's with Rita Moreno. It's our best be doing that show. Okay, okay. That's, you know, it's like, it's got to be really, really interesting for me. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not really guest starring on shows or trying to get another, you know, long run on a procedural or something like that. Unless it's something that I've developed. We have a couple of shows set up when I, like Amazon Alliance Gates. We'll take them out and see what happens. Okay. You'll go in, but you're not going to read. I,

- Oh yeah, I won't read. - Didn't read for this one. - I mean, that's the person that's been done. - I stopped reading about seven, eight years ago. - I mean, I'll say hi. - Yeah. - We were talking a little bit about you just,

how endeared you are to all of our hearts. You're funny, you're intelligent, you're a kind human being. Like when you are around, I never think that like John doesn't want anything other than the best interest for me and for everybody that is in that space. - That's very true.

an addendum to that like your former air force how many years four years eight years eight years in the air force um and you were there and you were like doing some sort of like like did you get go to acting school from the air force like is that while while i was in the air force i studied musical theater yeah musical theater yeah because they paid for it for most of it now you guys know about amanda lee moore and about chris sullivan and their vocals

I'm surrounded by beasts. Like, where to be blowing? - Yep, it's true. - For his like 50th birthday party. - Oh, the best. - Like he got up on, like everybody's just kicking it, drinks and everything. First of all, like John built like his house. - Designed and built. - Designed and built. Like, we're not, and this is not,

- I have ADD, that's why. - That's not. - But bro, like the thing, but you could use it to just do video games. Like you go and build stuff, you know? You're an entrepreneur, you have, you know, many buildings like for rent throughout the country and then you just, you have a home. - He's a beekeeper. - He's a beekeeper. Dude will come with his honey. - This is us honey. - With his, this is us honey. Like,

What what make is it you say add but like what makes you what do you say is the special sauce that really? Contributes to you just wanting to know a lot about a lot of things. I don't know I I think It's just thousand island We call it specials, but it's I think you know you know my grandmother died when I was pretty young and and

you know the mortality I've kind of looked at mortality a long time ago and yeah and realized and really like you know when I read that the average lifespan for a man is 74 years 74. I was like I gotta get to work I gotta I wanna I wanna see and do and try everything this planet has to offer and so

I want to go see things, I travel. But then I also want to try things. I might not be an expert at anything, but I'll be pretty good at a lot of things. - Oh yeah. - You're not afraid. Your full knowledge of something doesn't keep you from putting your foot in the ring, throwing your hat in the ring and giving it a shot. - Exactly, yeah. 'Cause I know that,

the best way to learn is from failure or from mistakes. So even if I do try something and I, it doesn't work out, that I've learned something, obviously. And it's going to be a, you know, a piece of information that I can always come back to and use in life. So yeah, I'm going to try everything. I'm going to,

Do everything except golf. And I really don't know. You draw a line. That's a perfect way to end an episode. Except golf. There's a storyline. Thanks for listening. That was us.

Listen, we've only had a few guests so far and we're gonna hopefully have the whole cast at some point in time. But you're one of my favorite people. Same. I feel the same about you guys. It's the absolute truth. Guys, it sounds so freaking cliche, but we had the greatest group of people. So it wasn't just the story we got to tell, but it was the people that we got to tell the story with, right? And John Weartas...

is one of them people. He's that. So however you felt about Miguel in the beginning, when it's all said and done, we hope that you came around. - Of course, there's no way you could've. - And if you did come around. - You're made of stone. - Then they're a sociopath.

They bailed early because they couldn't go that emotional. Season four, okay, I can't go in. How about people tap out? They'll tell you that. They were like, you guys just kept doing it to me. I just had to take a break. And I was like, we understand. We're there when you're ready. But I'm so grateful that I got to do this with you, John. Because I think we had such a specific experience together. Yeah, I think so too. I just like to know that I had...

a partner in crime like you to lean on, to go through the prosthetics with, to tell the story with, quite frankly, it was just like, it was so joyful. There was never a moment on set when we weren't laughing and smiling and having fun, even in the harder moments, you know? And I'm just like, yeah, I will be forever grateful that the show brought us together and we got to do it together. It was like lightning struck, you know? Like the way that

every element of this show, every single department head, every single crew member, every single, you know, most writers. There might have been one. What's that?

You know, all the writers. All of them. 100% of the writers. Let's do it real quick. Social media, because Sarah Warehouse, who ran our social media, who's a producer sitting over there, she would come up with stuff. And this is funny, because John is also a former break dancer. Yeah. Like, dude is- On everything. On everything.

- The dude is ridiculous. - I was like, oh, and a scuba diver. The list goes on and on and on. - Brown has decent rhythms. I was like, all right, I'm about to go Merc John up in this dance thing or whatever. And I go look at the comments and they're like, Miguel was serving that church? - It definitely helped that he was in 75-year-old makeup. - Yeah, the makeup helped. - Breaking it down. - Yeah, exactly, the makeup. - High-waisted trousers. - Pleated.

I remember one day we were there. We got Mandy to do her go-to move. My little toe twist. And you were doing something else. I was like, come on, mama. It was...

That was so much fun. We had so much fun. We really did. We had a blast. We did. We had a blast. We hope you guys had a blast watching us. Thank you for being with us today, my brother. You have to come back so we can dive into some specific episodes with you at some point. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll be here. I live close. He lives real close. You want to look down the barrel and say that? That was us. Boom. Boom.

That Was Us is filmed at The Crow and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions and Sarah Warehunt. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.