Ep 1001 | President Trump Surprises Missy & Jase by Attending Her Smash-Hit Speech
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because Americans lose when politicians choose. Learn more at guardyourcard.com. I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed.

It's been a little bit of a break. I feel refreshed. I've been to a tropical island, Jace. I mean, I am chomping at the bits to be back at Unashamed. Got a little bit of a break, and Lisa and I celebrated 40 years of marital bliss. If there was any more bliss, Zach, I would be a blister. That's how...

You look like a blister, man. You come back from the beach. I'm back. I'm tanned. I'm relaxed. I'm ready. Was it actually warm down there? Oh, yeah. I actually got in the Gulf or the Caribbean, I guess, and swam with the stingrays and pitchforks.

Pigs and sharks. It was quite the... You did it all. I did it all. Well, if you ever see me swimming down there, I've fallen out of the boat. So pick me up and... Call for help. Yeah. It was fantastic. And by the way, the people in the Bahamas, the people that live there, I mean, they are... That's why I like going back there is because...

They're just always, they're cheerful. They're excited. You're there. I mean, you know, someplace you go on vacation, people just don't seem like they're that happy you're there. But these folks. It's a tourist town. I live in a tourist town, Al. Let me tell you why we're so happy when tourists come to town. Money. It's because they leave something with us. That's right. They leave something green with us. Exactly. While y'all were out doing all that, I've had in the past few days two kind of top

Top five events in my life. I know. One of the reasons I'm so excited about today, Jase, is because you sent me a picture of

And all you said was, I got some podcast material and the picture blew me away. So I have been waiting. I didn't even contact you. So I don't even want to hear it until we're sitting right here. Nobody knows what I'm fixed to share except the people in that room. And so my wife told me that an organization, let me put it that way. It's called Moms for America had chosen my wife for an award. It was like,

women of influence. And, you know, when we had Missy on, I think it was the last time she talked about, you know, we always talk about the little one we're helping, the baby that dropped from the sky. I call him the little man. And she talks about Karina, you know, the girl from Nicaragua that became a part of her family. But Missy does a lot of speeches and events around family and mothers and mentorship and

So I thought, well, this is really cool. This group is wanting to acknowledge her with an award. So it's awesome. So in my mind, I thought, well, that means it's all women. I mean, wouldn't you think that? Moms for America. Yeah. And I'd actually seen a news story before you sent me a picture. I'd seen a news story. They had made news.

I saw that. From the auction the night before from a good friend of ours, Zach, an old pal. They had auctioned off like a two-day thing with somebody, and it made the news. So I was like aware of this event, not having any idea anything about what you were doing. Yeah, so I saw the event that they were all dancing. There was a big dancing thing they did. Trump came on stage.

If there's going to be dancing, it's going to be Jace. Well, to tell you the picture that I sent Al was Missy and I about six feet in front of the president-elect. A newly elected president. Yeah, so I said, I got a good podcast story for you. Are you talking about the former president, president-elect? Yes.

Yes. And I was so... At first, my first thought, Jace, was somebody's photoshopped this. I thought y'all might think that because we were in such close proximity. Right, it was just right there. I thought somebody has drawn in Trump. So now that I have your attention, so I said, well, Missy, where are you getting this award? And they said they want me to do a speech. And I was like, oh, fantastic. And they said it's a place called Mar-a-Lago. And I said, well, isn't that where...

Trump hangs out and owns. And Missy said, oh yeah. I was like, oh, well that'll be fun for you. So time goes by and she has the event coming up. Well, then I got wind that my three natural born kids were going with her. Well, you know, my son Reed, he's 30 year old man. I was like, are there, is this mixed audience? And Missy's like, yeah.

So I decided to call Mrs. Ant, who's my kind of handler, and I was like, see if you can get me a ticket down there. Zach, I'm just hoping one day I can get big enough to have a handler. Yeah. Wouldn't that be nice? It happens. So she said, I can get you down there. And so I was going to surprise her, but somehow or another she got wind that I was coming due to all these security checks. I found out pretty quickly, if you're going to Mar-a-Lago –

There's some security. Oh, by the way. From your entire life is looked into, you know, from one look at you coming across the bulletin. And it's like, be sure and double check this guy. Actually, it took everybody a couple of days, but it didn't take me as long because they just knew how it was. So that was nice. So I go down there and, you know, it was because the backstory to this is Missy.

did a similar event for them where she just spoke about being a mom and kids seven years ago for the same group. Well, seven years ago, this group was just getting started. And so to see how that had evolved was incredible. This place was packed.

It was all these people you see on TV talking on news shows. They're all there. I don't know who they are, but I had seen them before. I was like, boy, this is kind of a who's who for...

And I was the most underdressed person there, I will say that. Well, I asked if you play golf because you look like you were just golfing. I had no time for golf, but they said the president's actually out here playing golf. He was wearing his golf attire. Yeah, well, that was before we knew he was coming. Nobody knew he was really coming to the event. And so we go through the event. It's great. And so what happened was there's multiple speakers, multiple awards,

And it turned into an auction. They auctioned out some events. And I told Missy, I said, well, if they want to raise some money, they should give away a frog hunt with me. Five minutes later, I'm on stage describing what's fixing to happen if you'll...

And somebody paid 25 grand for the moms of America. All you got to do is throw out the possibilities. They're going frog hunting next spring. So that was fun. So then Missy goes backstage. She's the next person that's going to receive this honor. She's very humbled about it. But she has about a five to seven minute speech.

prepared. And what I didn't know till later was that's when they got the call that said the president is on his way and we're not sure what to do with you. They were talking to Missy because she was standing there like with her Bible. And Missy told me, she said, when that happened, I just felt a peace come over me. And I thought, well, I don't think this is an accident. Nope.

And she said, whatever y'all want me to do is fine with me. If I get, you know, bumped for the president, great. But if not, I will introduce him, I guess. But I have something to say at some point, and I want to say it. And so as they're like... I prepared her for that all the time she spent on the Unashamed podcast. Maybe. Because it's the king of winging. But she said she was a little nervous until that happened. Yeah. And so, and me as her...

you know, her partner. And I mean, we're, we're, we're one. Cause what happened was they said, well, he's, he's coming. And, but as they're trying to figure out what they're going to do, the MC starts introducing Missy. Yeah. Our next, uh, you know? And so they're like, well, just go ahead. Yeah.

But when she walked out, I was probably the only person. She just had a look about her, and I thought, this is fixing to be good. It was a sight I've seen maybe when we were struggling with Mia, born with all her problems. There was just a side of her that's very godly, that's just like a mama bear. And I actually thought, because mama bear got brought up a lot in this event for moms.

And I thought to myself, she's fixed to be a mama bear for Jesus. And I was exactly right. So she starts giving this speech that was focused on Jesus. And when she got to Acts chapter 17. It's Acts' favorite chapter. She started quoting and reading Acts 17 that the God. A little place called Acts 17. A little thing we call it. The creator of the universe from one man created all nations of men. He doesn't live in temples built by hands.

He gives all men life, breath, and everything else. He determined the exact times and the exact places where they should live. He did this so that men would reach out for him and seek him and find him, though he's not far from each one of us. And when she got to right to that point, half the audience stood up and turned around. There was a commotion. And I looked around and I saw the president.

Looking at my wife, he is in the building security as far as the eye can see. And my wife, because I thought this moment, she's now as acknowledged that he's here. He has her Bible and she, she raised her hand and she said, I want you to really listen to this because this is the most important part. And I thought she's going all the way with it.

You kind of got a moment here. She said the creator of the universe, of all the ways that he could come to the earth, he decided to come through the body of a mom, which the place erupted. And she said his name is Jesus. And she said we're fortunate that we just had an election and elected a president that's going to make these principles that I just mentioned

read from Acts 17, easier for us to do as people of faith. And the whole place erupted again. And then she concluded her remarks. But I just thought, you know, in that... So Trump comes in right behind her. Oh, yeah. He literally, as she stepped down, standing ovation, Trump is coming. They queued YMCA. Yeah.

That's where the dancing comes in. The altar call YMCA, and he gets up. That's what I saw. But he did look at my wife and say, thank you, which I thought was awesome. Yep. But what I didn't factor on is when that was over, he spoke seven or eight minutes. Every person in that room, and there were hundreds, who loves Jesus, descended on me and my wife. Yep. And there were songs, prayers, tears, tears.

Because they just thought there was a moment where you could have just said, oh, the president's here. But I'm telling you, raising the finger toward heaven and saying the king of kings is what we're all about. But you sent a picture. Can we show that picture on the – I will share that. It's her with that hand. My lovely assistant captured that moment. That's awesome. And I thought, you know –

This she's reading about the exact times and things not being accidents. And I thought, you know, I just think the president needed to hear that. Yeah. And sure, the transition team, people that came up to us who are believers were really inspired by her doing that, you know, via the Holy Spirit.

It was just a moment. I thought, you know, this is not an accident. This needed to happen. So here I was just getting a surprise. We're thinking it was a mom's event. All of a sudden it turned into something that I thought was kingdom defining moving forward.

And I've never been as proud of my wife as I was in that moment. Well, good news is she's a missus on the next podcast. So we're going to get to ask her about it. So I know she'll be humble because she's winning an award, but what a moment, right? I can't wait to hear what she says about it. All right. So we're going to take a break. We come back. One of our favorite humans on planet earth, our favorite old friends, uh,

is here in the house. And so we're going to talk with him. We'll introduce him when we come back from this break. Zach, we talked some on the podcast about when you guys used to come over to Louisiana when you were little for either Thanksgiving or Christmas. Sometimes it was the either or. What's one of the things that you guys do up there in North Carolina with your family for the holidays, either for Christmas or Thanksgiving? Rabbi scored points.

based it in Andrea seasoning and then we smoke it. So I got that from Phil, but we do that every year. Now, see, that's what I call a family tradition. Traditions are a big part of the holidays. We know that. And part of that is just taking care of your family, taking care of your family's future and bringing peace of mind. And one of our sponsors, Policy Genius, that's what they're all about.

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Welcome back to Unashamed. Before I introduce our guest, since Jace Trump, my story to the Bahamas was Trump by literally Trump, Jace's experience. And Zach, I have to mention this because I had seen, Lisa's tracking this thing on Facebook and she keeps asking me, what is this big announcement about?

that Zach and Jill are making on the podcast. And I was like, babe, I don't know if it must be a surprise to me too, because I don't have any idea what you're talking about. So then all these people are sending in things. Is Jill pregnant? And I'm just like, what? She better not be pregnant. I don't know how this is. So is that your new podcast? What was the deal with that? Yeah, she teased it up right, because everyone thought we were either going to be grandparents or parents, but we were pushing the –

Not yet now podcast release, which by the way, we did. And we debuted in the top 10 on religion and spirituality charts. Really? Did really well. So did you come in ahead of unashamed because now you're competing with yourself.

Well, Zach, this is all great, but now this pregnancy thing has my... You have me... No, we're not pregnant. What was the big announcement? I was fixing to say, if you want to get ratings, that would probably work. Kind of Abraham and Sarah. I don't know how old you are, but... It was a tease. Yeah.

I'm 46. Now, Jill could still, I mean, well, no, if she's pregnant, though, there's been some things that have happened in my life that have, I don't know what I can say. Yeah, there wouldn't be. If there's any pregnancy going on, then me and Jill have to have a bigger conversation. Well, you'd have a different podcast then.

Yeah, exactly. We'll do something different. Putting it back together. So check out Zach's new podcast. I'm sure it's fantastic. I haven't listened to it yet, Zach, but I plan on it just to see how it relates. We'll put the link in the show notes. I'm going to get a new Thesaurus podcast.

When I listened to it. Yeah. You can keep up with the big words. Well, Jay, she'll be happy to know. Overwhelmingly, the comments were very, very positive. There was one lady that commented four times that the words were too big and she was never coming back. Yeah. So there was a little bit. She told you four times, right? So she told me four times. So Jill's not pregnant. That was all. Jill's not pregnant. We're not pregnant. We're not becoming grandparents. None of that. So. Well.

Good. That's good to know. You can just adopt some more. So our guest today is Skinny Santa. Hey.

Mack Owen, one of our favorite people. Mack's been on before, and we kind of gave his backstory from the Raboan days of Zach and – I mean, Zach. Mack and Dad were co-owners of Oliver Hunting Property at one time, which is fantastic. So we go way, way back. Mack is one of the original duck men.

And also had been at our church for many, many years. Now he's in Colorado. He looks like Santa now. And I hear you're actually going to be doing some Santa. Look, I was actually recruited.

by the real bearded, the International Real Bearded Association of Santa Clauses. I'm like, is that a real deal? And they actually called and recruited me. You can't have a fake beard. Well, yeah, you can't have a fake beard. It's the real bearded Santa Claus. And you were talking about the background check with going to Trump. I had to do a background check to be Santa Claus. Oh, my goodness. That's a big position, Max.

It is. It's the kids. It's on the lap. You got to make sure. So you spoke at WFR yesterday, and you actually told that about the SoundCloud. But you also told something that I might can help you with because somebody said that you look like the Prophet Matthew, but you said you had always had a dream of having a part in The Chosen. Yeah. I'm pretty good friends with the guy. Uh-oh. Oh, hey, hey. Uh-oh. And I just saw him. Things are happening. Things are happening. Uh-oh, uh-oh.

I might can make that happen. Oh, hey, if you can make that happen, that would be one of my dreams fulfilled. Okay. And maybe they could have a future like look when Matthew gets older before he's martyred and all of a sudden you're there. You're actually Matthew. That's why I respect you. I've always had a dream of being in a really good Western, even if I die in the first five seconds and fall off the horse. But then when I heard your dream, I thought, that's a better dream.

There you go. Hey, wisdom. I'm feeling good about myself then right now. Well, tell, tell, uh, for, cause I think you, the last time he was on was been a few hundred episodes. So tell, I wanted to know just for our audience, how you got to have such a great relationship with Phil. I mean, you kind of tell your, your story. Yeah. Uh, cause it was interesting. I remember it because I always thought this guy, uh,

you know, he, I think he's serious about this. That was the line that your dad used too. Cause I actually came to church, uh,

decided I had to do something different with my life. I didn't know where to go. The church, ironically enough, sent me to AA cause they didn't know they had the answer at that time. You know, they said, well, he's our first drug addict and we don't know what to do with him. But anyway, AA sent you back. What year was this? It was 1988, 1988. So just imagine you respond and you, and you, and I was actually there. Jason and I were both there and we had just started, uh,

into the school of preaching or that was the year we started. And so we had just come back to White Street Road a year or two earlier. And I think that was actually, you mentioned this in your sermon, but I think that when you responded and gave the details of why you were responding, uh,

being a drug addict and alcohol abuser. There was a, I think there was actually a gasp in the audience. It was like, Oh, there was. Cause Ray Melton was there. The preacher, you know, meant snow bones. He said, Oh, we got a drug addict with us tonight. So, you know, so that, well, there was an audible. Look through the years, there have been thousands of people. They responded with a lot of heart wrenching, heart opening stories, but there's a handful through the years of my years that,

WFR which now for 50 years for me at WFR since I was 10 years old and Max Mac and Mary that night was one that I'll never I mean I just I can remember it in my mind and play it back like it was yesterday so when you were telling a little bit about it Sunday it just my mind always goes back to how powerful that was how old were you Mac?

when i was 29 29 which ironically was about dad's age it was 28 i was 28 so it was the same kind of so then you responded and then tell us what happened next so then i responded the church overwhelmingly uh just surrounded us that night said we want you to keep coming back which was totally not what i thought they would say i thought they would probably say you know we don't really want your kind around here but they didn't say that yeah and

And so I heard about this guy named Phil who was sharing the gospel with people. So a couple of days after I responded, I said, you know, I need to learn how to do that. I'm pretty sure if I'm going to stay around here. So I saw him at church the next Sunday and I said, hey, I hear you share the gospel with people on what they need to do to be saved. So next time you do that, I'd like for you to tell me so I can come down there and just be a part of that so I can see what I need to do now. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get back with you.

And so, yeah. And you know what happened? No getting back, right? So two weeks goes by. And so I just told Mary, I said, I don't know what his deal is. I guess, you know, I'm going to call him. So I called him up and I said, hey, look, I asked you to...

Call me next time you had a Bible study. I know you've already had a couple because I've seen you baptize people. So are you like ashamed of me or something? Is this like a brotherhood and you're like, I'm the bad part of the family or something? He said, hey, Jack, I will get back with you. And he hanged up the phone, looks at Kay, he said, I think he's serious. Yeah.

And from there, from there it was, I mean, I mean, I don't know if anybody's ever been on more Bible studies. Look, as a kid, that's why I wanted to jump in. I had graduated high school. I think I was a year out of high school. I remember every time we'd have a study, cause they were just happening at his house. Every time somebody showed up, he shared Jesus.

And I remember you sitting there with a notebook every time. And Mac would write out the gospel symbols that we always used and then put verses underneath them.

And then you would give it to the person who had been studied with. So it was like they could, if they, if they didn't decide that night, they want to do anything else. You say here, here's something for you to contemplate what's been talked about. So you were like the scribe, the early scribe. Because previously until that time, Phil would share with them, but they never had a record of what he shared. Right. And,

And so I said, I'll just do that. Kind of like Matthew. Yeah, kind of like Matthew. Exactly. See? See? There's a connection here, Jase. I get it. I see a text to Dallas Jenkins coming up from this conversation. But you did that for years. Yeah, I did it for years. And, man, I tell you, we went on more Bible studies that I can't even remember all the people, of course. And we had people literally run out of the house. Ah!

And just burning rubber out of the driveway. And Phil would be like, well, I guess he don't want to be baptized today. I mean, so yeah. I actually remember that. But during all this time. Y'all didn't mince words back then, though, either. No, everything was straightforward. It was real blunt. And just to show you the picture, because those of you who have been listening to the podcast for a long time, you know it's always been a part of just our DNA. Yeah.

And Mac was an early part of that as well. But we were also making hunting videos. You guys started buying some property down there, which then led to our whole hunting situation. Which our wives were totally opposed to. They did not want us buying that property. That's true, Mary. Mary was like, no, that's a terrible idea. Let me just say one thing. We bought the property, and then a couple years later, a timber company came in and said, we want to buy the timber off this thing.

Long story short, we sold all the timber to, not all of it, a third of the timber to a casket company in Mississippi, and it paid for all the land. Then a pipeline came across. They paid us. Of course, you know, they offered us a lowball prize. And Phil, I didn't know he was the negotiator. Normally he's not. Oh, yeah. Well, he said, yeah, yeah, you can come back. I tell you what, you go around our property and he's,

They said, we can't go around this. It's too big. And anyway, by the time the pipelines came across and the timber got sold, Mary and Kay both were like, y'all need to buy some land somewhere else. All of a sudden, they wanted you to go be land bearers. Yeah, that's right.

So if you enjoy our podcast, and we know that you do because we hear from you all the time, we'd like for you to head over to blazetv.com slash Robertson and subscribe. And you're going to save $30. When you subscribe, you're going to get In the Woods Archive, which is Dad's show that we kind of first started us with Blaze. All our old overtime segments are there, as well as cooking with the Robertsons.

And so we've been cooking at our houses, showing some of our favorite meals. Jace, have you filmed the latest one yet? I have not, but it's on the docket. It's on the docket. We got one coming up. Jace likes to do the catch and cook method. So the stuff he does. Or kill and cook. Yeah. Well, catch, kill, and cook. There you go.

But we got a lot of cool stuff. Mom and dad are on there. We've had Sal on before as well. So we got a lot of cool stuff. We want you to check them out. You can sign up at blazetv.com slash Robertson. You'll get $30 off. Sign up for Blaze TV Plus today. And so real life was happening, but then lives are being changed. And so our whole relationship was that. And I thought about it, Mac. Yesterday, they did the song, My Chains Are Gone, The Amazing Grace, kind of the update Amazing Grace.

And as soon as it happened, because I knew you were preaching, man, the memories flooded back. Because the first time we ever did cardboard testimonies at WFR was something you and Mary had found on the internet from somewhere in California. And we looked at it and we thought, that's us. I mean, you're talking about having some cardboard testimonies here at WFR. And so I just never forget that first time we did it.

And we've done it many times since, by the way. And that first group that came through and the last couple that was there, and they're still there, by the way, they had these chains that they had around their wrists and they just dropped them because their whole marriage had fallen apart, but then God put them back together. And that song was playing. And so we all got chills just from the whole setting of that whole morning. But I just thought, man, to get to do ministry with

with people at some point in your life. And now you guys are doing your thing, which I want to hear more about. And we're doing our thing. But it's like you share those moments. And it's all about people. It's all about lives being changed and literally chains being broken.

setting people free. That's right. Fireful. And it literally is all about people. It is. So tell folks what you're doing now because you started our celebration. The reason you were in town was because we were celebrating 20 years of our Celebrate Recovery. Right. And we're recreating the first sermon series we preached, which led to you guys starting on that New Year's Eve that year. Yeah.

And so we're redoing that this year. And Matt got to come back. And this weekend was kind of the big celebration weekend for the whole thing. So you spoke at CRO Friday. You spoke at WFR yesterday. Yeah, I got to speak about Legacy on Friday night. And I thought how cool it is. You know, at our Celebrate Recovery there at White's Fair Road, I still call it ours as in all of us as family because this is always going to be family to us. Right.

And, um, it's just so cool that we started that ministry, pass it on to a young guy who didn't have any addiction problems, but had other problems who passed it on to a guy that started in one of the recovery homes. Now the two on staff ministry leaders both started in one of white fair roads, recovery homes. Yes. Pretty cool. Which was awesome. Yeah. Talk about legacy. And then one of those guys did the communion talk yesterday, like only he can. And he talked about fishing and,

in the solitary confinement area. Okay, now look, I got to confess on that one. When he said they were taking fireballs and crushing them up, I said, hopefully they're not snorting them things. That's what I thought. I thought, where is he going? So Rucker, as you all know, Rucker's been on the podcast a few times.

And he told this story that only Rucker can in a communion talk where he winds up in prison. He says, you know, I was incarcerated. And then he tells the story. But it was beautiful the way he brought it back around the idea that we commune together no matter where we are. And so he talked about it even happening in prison. Right. Which is pretty amazing. That's the legacy, right? But those guys are doing amazing. And every time I see them up together because they kicked off this series, I think about Matt just –

how God had opened up yours and Mary's hearts to do what we're doing now. And so you guys went to Colorado and then still involved and engaged in celebrate recovery at the national level. And for the last few years, you guys have been everywhere, right? Right. I don't even know how many countries we're in, but, you know, I've been somewhere every weekend since September doing a seminar or a conference and

And then before that, every other weekend somewhere. And so, yeah, we're doing conferences and people are, churches are coming to learn how to start Celebrate Recovery. So it's so encouraging to me that churches are opening the doors to the really hurting, broken people. Yeah. Sounds like what Jesus would do. Exactly. Which is what we say all the time.

And I love it. You mentioned yesterday, I want to talk a little bit about your sermon because, and it really leads in great. We're in Colossians 3, and I told you it was really amazing. You're like, well, I'm going to talk about Colossians 3 a little bit in my sermon. Al, the more this goes on, the less I'm believing in accidental encounters. It's just like Missy and Mar-a-Lago. The moment is real. So you told a story yesterday. I've known you, Mac, for 40 years. Yes.

You told a story yesterday that I had never heard before. Okay. I never heard this story. I hadn't either. I hadn't heard that. Yeah. And I asked Lisa, I was like, did I just forget? How could I forget the story? Cause it was so amazing.

and you worked it into your sermon, and I'll let you tell what that is, but about something that happened when you were a teenager or to someone you know. Now, I was a little confused about where it happened. Did it happen here? Yeah, you know where Chick-fil-A is in West Monroe? Yeah. Right behind those apartments, those were the apartments. Oh, okay. Wow. 1975. Yeah, so tell the story, and then tell kind of how that point fit into your larger lesson. So my best friend in high school had—

was part of a situation where a sniper, he was, my friend was going out to get on his motorcycle. His helmet was strapped to the side. He picked up his helmet and he thought a bomb went off. He didn't know that there was a guy in the upstairs apartment shooting at him. So he shot first and,

He just saw blood everywhere, and then within a split second, the next bullet hit him and knocked him to the ground. So he got shot twice. His brother heard the commotion, goes outside to pull his brother in, doesn't know what's happening. He just knows there's blood everywhere. He's going to get him in. He gets shot fatally, kills him, and now he's on top of his brother, his dead body, and then the sniper...

shoots another guy that just came outside to see what was going on. And this sniper wasn't like a military operator. He just was randomly shot. Guy with a hunting rifle. Didn't even know these people. Didn't know these people at all. And you know, this is 1975. This was not a time when you heard about snipers shooting people, you know? And so, uh,

So yeah, he was just a guy that had some really serious mental health issues. And eventually he shot himself. Yeah, he shot himself. Fatally. Fatally, yeah. And with the last bullet. He fired three bullets into the ceiling and then the last bullet he shot himself. Hmm.

And so then you didn't know this guy at the time, the guy with the motorcycle helmet. I knew him like a couple weeks later. Yeah, a couple weeks later you met him. And then y'all became best friends. Became best friends. You're in high school at West Monroe. This is March of 1975. Correct. Which before you tell the rest of the story, let me give you a little, oh, by the way, this was going on. The exact same time this was happening in this story,

Our family was falling apart. And that's right before we came to West Monroe. In the movie, The Blind, the night when dad kicks us all out, that happened in the early summer of 1975. So it would have been just a couple of months after this story. And then we wound up here and then dad would come later and then become a Christian. So all that happened in that same time. Wow. Which was when you were telling me yesterday, I was getting chills because I thought Matt probably didn't know that.

But when all these things were happening in this story, literally that which was dead in our family became alive, you know, not too long after. And that's the, I'm glad you said that because Dane, when he got his arm, his shoulder shot, his arm was literally dead. It was his right arm. The doctors wanted to amputate it. He refused over and over. They said, look, it's going to, we're afraid it's going to affect your circulatory system and affect the rest of your body. And he just continued to believe that one day he would use his arm again.

And so because of that, at 34 years old, it did in fact kill him. His mom called me and said, look, Dane passed away. He never would let them amputate his arm. And that's what killed him. And so from that...

It was my, in my mind, I thought, wow, holding on to dead things will kill you. And so that's what Paul talks about a lot in Colossians and in all the little books, how that, that dead stuff will kill you. Yeah. And that you have to put to death literally. Right. Which you, you'd made such a strong point about, you were talking about a small group that had met years later in your wood shop. And I'm sure I've been to that by the way. And we all have at different points.

And you said in that, you guys were talking about this idea, how do we put something to death? And that some quiet guy in the group said, you don't feed it. Right. Stop feeding that which kills you. And I just thought that was such a say and important point because even the case of Dane, who you mentioned, who I got to thinking about, I guess he would have been about 17 when this happened to him because you guys were juniors in high school. And so that he was halfway through his life at that point, not knowing. Right. And, but he had the second half, uh,

to do something that he couldn't do or didn't feel like he could do. And look, it cost him something. And so I just thought that made such a great point that the idea is we have time to do the right thing if we'll do the right thing. And if we don't, we run out of time. Yeah. You know, which is powerful. Well, and if you, you know, putting it today, you know, in Colossians two, actually before this chapter, you guys are looking at today, um, you know, Paul said that all of our sinful behavior was, and past was nailed to the cross. Yeah.

And I love it in the message because it says, all those arrest warrants with your name on them were nailed to the cross. And so I love that because that's where it should stay, but we pick it back up. And it says even before that, when it talks about the circumcision done by Christ, he cut off this old self idea. Then when it says circumcision,

having been buried with him in baptism, raised with him through your faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead. I mean, that reenactment is us having our old self cut off. Then later on, he says, for you died and your life is now hidden in

But then it also says, since then you've been raised with Christ. Set your mind on things above. Set your heart on things above. So that picture to me sets up for what you read, which then when he gets to about verse 5 or 6 there, put to death therefore whatever belongs to your earthly sinful nature. It has all the list of the dead things, you know, sexual immorality. You read them. Impurity, lust, evil desires, greed.

But then it says, but put on the new self since you've been raised. I mean, that transformation process is how we all got here. And that 1975 with you eventually would come, you know, when you were 29, Phil being 28, that transformation process happened, which is amazing, which is the reason I'm sitting here because I saw that happen in my dad. And I was like, how'd this happen? It's like, oh, it's the guy named Jesus.

I was watching yesterday from, we were driving home and so we were watching on Facebook and so we got to see the live stream host, which was the other half of the dynamic duo that now lead our Celebrate Recovery ministry was Derek McQueen and his wife Kayla. And he mentioned something, I think it was after your sermon, about a lesson he had heard and someone taught, and I had never heard this before, but

But I looked it up, and he's right. There was a form of Roman punishment, which you'd think crucifixion would be bad enough. But they had another one for special cases where they would strap a dead body onto someone and literally link them together, and they had to carry that dead body around. It was a form of punishment. And what would happen was they would get sick and die.

because of carrying around a rotting corpse. But they were talking about it was the same point you were making. If you can't separate death from life, you die in a physical sense, but it's also in a spiritual sense. It does the exact same thing. Right. And like Jace was just talking, you know, earlier in Colossians, he said it was a cutting away of the sinful nature. Yeah. He cut it off. He got rid of it. I mean, either you die in your sins or he cuts away everything.

the sinful self that is dead. And then through that transformation process, which I discovered are words that you should do a podcast on, that process, I heard a man refer to it as vivification.

Viva Vacation. Have you ever heard of that? I have. If you look it up, it says made alive through the spirit of Christ. I love that. That's what you just mentioned that verse. It's not just the putting off of. If you leave it there, then you're not fully, it's not the full picture. It's putting off.

And then putting on. And that's kind of the same language that Paul uses in Romans chapter 8 when he says to put to death the misdeeds of the body. But if you look at the whole context of Romans 8, that's like part of it, but it's put off the misdeeds of the body by living by the Spirit, by putting on.

on the spirit by being clothed with christ so it's the putting off on one side cutting off on one side but then putting on on the other side well and you're right because on in that same text in colossus 2 it says the full all the all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form in jesus and then it then it doesn't stop there it says that now lives in you

So we have all the fullness of deity living in us. And we're like, no, I just can't let go of that. I can't put that down. Well, it's so crazy that you mentioned that verse because the sermon I heard on this vivification, which I thought Zach would like that word. Vivification. He got this from what you just said from Ephesians. This was John Tyson preached a sermon on that. If you want to look it up, it's fantastic.

But in Ephesians 3, just listen to this prayer based on everything we've talked about up to this point. In verse 16, he says, I pray that out of his glorious riches, he may strengthen you with power through his spirit in your inner being so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, which is the same thing he said in Colossians 1. You want to know the mystery of godliness? It's Christ in you. So he cuts off

this old sinful self, and now you have Christ literally residing in your body through his spirit, which makes sense. Like when you read, and you quoted this yesterday, Romans 8, 10, and 11, that verse 10 says, your body is dead because of sin, but your spirit is alive because of Christ. And then it says, and if the same spirit who raised Jesus from the dead, and those four words is the vivification process.

is living in you, then he will also give life to your mortal bodies. We tend to only think of, oh, I got a resurrection coming. But that moment is if Christ is living in you, which is defined in Colossians 3. That means you don't feed the old sinful self that Christ put away.

And, you know, another passage is that one that says we're renewed day by day inwardly, though outwardly we are wasting away. Where's that? St. Corinthians 4. Inwardly, we are being renewed day by day through his spirit, which is what's happening. By the way, that word renewed, the only other place it is other than Colossians 3 is the one you just read, which means to be revived.

I love what you just said there. I think it's so key because we talked about this in our very first podcast on the other one that I launched. The problem is when we hear this verse or a verse like this, we think it means that the body's bad, the spirit's good. So put to death the body and just live in your spiritual life. But when you think about the fact that it says that all the fullness is

of deity dwells in bodily form. It's a form of Gnosticism to think that the human body is bad because it says that God was pleased to dwell in a body. So I love the way you brought those verses together. This is not a devaluing of the human body. This is actually how to bring your mortal body to life. It's an elevation of the physical human body because God wants

lives in a human body. It's what Missy said so brilliantly that when God chose to become a human, he came through a mom. He came through a mom's body. Yeah, through a mom's body. In an unplanned pregnancy. Which, to my surprise, caused an ovation. It should. That's powerful. Moms for America.

Winning. That was a great line. I want to read this, though. You'll be surprised what this says, because it says, all right, he prayed that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through the Spirit in your inner being so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, he says the same thing in Colossians 2, we're rooted and built up in Christ, may have power together with all the saints to grasp how wide, long, high, and deep is the love of Christ.

And to know this love that surpasses knowledge. And listen to what this says. That you may be filled to the measure of the fullness of God. Which he says three different times in Colossians. You've been given fullness in Christ. He says that in Colossians 2. In Colossians 1, Jesus said God was pleased to have his fullness dwell in him. Just think about what he's saying. And this idea of us being.

Him dwelling in us. Well, that's a theme of the entire Bible. You get to the last book in Revelation, and it's like speaking of God's dwelling with people. I looked up.

And saw the church coming out of heaven. I mean, it's all about God living not only, you know, through you and for you, but in you. I mean, you can't get any more intimate to that. He looked for that temple. He said, I can't find the temple. Where's the temple at the end of the Bible, Revelation 21? He's like, I'm looking around. I don't see a temple. Oh, that's because the lamb himself is the temple.

Well, yesterday, Derek said something really beautiful on the live stream around the Sermon Mac. And he said, what I really, because he asked Kayla, you know, what do you appreciate about Celebrate Recovery? So she gave her answer. And then he said, you know, for me, Celebrate Recovery brought me to the feet of Jesus. And I love that idea. And so, and I want you to speak to that because you mentioned AA, which especially back in time, AA has been around a long time.

Definitely has spiritual principles, higher power, but also has made it a little more about not doing something in terms of adding something. I feel like the evolution now of recovery ministry, especially what you guys do at Saddleback and with Saddleback Recovery, is that you get people to Jesus, and that's where the fulfillment takes place. And that's why John Baker and all those guys brought in the Beatitudes and the idea, we can't just get you off of something.

you can't just quit doing something. If something doesn't fill it up, it's like when Jesus said, if we, if we kick out the seven demons, but nothing goes in or kick out the one demon, seven are going to come back. Right, right. So talk a little bit about that. The idea of that's what you guys, because to me, that's what makes celebrate recovery different in terms of what it's trying to accomplish to get people to Christ. Right. And, and I'll, I'll just finish what you just said about the seven demons, more coming back. Uh,

it says the final condition of that man was worse than at the first. And so what we want to make sure is that people are filled because, you know, anybody can get somebody sober and I, my hat's off to AA and any other secular groups that are getting people sober, but that's not enough. You know, the, the, the,

difference between Celebrate Recovery and any of the secular programs is that we have a much better retirement program. It's not going to be just, we're going to get you sober, we're going to get you sober and have eternal life. And so Celebrate Recovery has been...

First of all, I would say this. It's not about Celebrate Recovery. When you come to Celebrate Recovery, it's about Jesus Christ. It just happens to be the best vehicle I've ever seen in getting really, really broken people to the feet of Jesus. So that's the big difference. Like I said, the church sent me to AA. AA sent me back to the church. AA was built on spiritual principles, but like so many things, when humans get a hold of something,

They pervert it and then say you can't talk about it. And so if you go into some AA meetings now, they'll say you can't even bring up the word Jesus Christ. And I'm like, hold it. You guys gave me a book. It's called A Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And on page 87, it says, be quick to see where religious people are right and make use of what they have to offer. Hmm.

So do you want me to rip that page out? And they're like, well, no, don't do that. I'm like, well, then I'm going to talk about Jesus Christ when I come in here. But I'll say this too. There are a lot of good AA groups that don't put a damper on people talking about Jesus. But in Celebrate Recovery, that's the only higher power that we recognize as somebody that

And what you guys were talking about a while ago about the fullness of deity living in bodily form. You know, Jesus says, I came to give you abundant life in your body. Not when we get to heaven. That's right. People are like, oh, you're going to get to heaven. That's when we get abundant. No, here. Here.

I mean, it's not about getting to heaven. It's about getting heaven into us. Amen. That's the difference. Well, and yesterday, Mac, I got chills and tears when you were describing your experiences, because I have similar ones about our church here at WFR.

And all of us have that experience. And no matter where we go, you've been gone. You may have been gone for several years, but WFR is still home. Oh, yeah. Jackson, North Carolina. But WFR is still part of his home DNA. It's the same with Jason and I. I'm back and forth. I'm all over the place. But you honored it because you said this has always been a church that says we'll take anybody.

And really, that's what the church is and should always be, is the place that will take anybody. Yeah, well, I heard that in that sermon I was talking about in Ephesians 3. When we hear that, he wanted them to understand how wide and long

long and high and deep is the love of Christ. Well, that's all about people. And when you start breaking those little sections and when looking at it through the eyes of Ephesians and people, you just think he had just said about Ephesians too, that he wanted Jews and Gentiles. Well, that's the length. That's everybody.

that's ever been. And when you think about that's the width and on the length, it's people from everywhere from the beginning of the world. Remember in Ephesians 1, it says, I chose you before the beginning of the world, throughout eternity. That's this love that he's getting us to try to imagine. And when you think height, he had just said in Ephesians 2, he seated us with us in the heavenly realms. He's given us every spiritual blessing that

in the heavenly places. And when you think of depth, which I think is what the role that Max played in the kingdom, there's no far that's too far in the demonic world, your sinful behavior.

Or, you know, any place in life of despair and difficulty that Jesus can't rescue you, you know, from the, you know, with what he did on the cross and the resurrection. I mean, I think that was the picture he was trying to get us to see of the love of Christ. And really, that's what it was, because even in his own life, what did Jesus do at the most difficult time of his life? He forgave his enemies.

He was concerned about his mom. And then he said, Father, into your hands I commit my spirit. He trusted God's, the Father's plan in the most difficult moment of his life. Well, that's what real God love does. And so it prepares us for whatever comes up. Yeah.

And I like what you just said. There's no far that's too far. There's no far that's too far. That's got to be a T-shirt, man. I got to wear that. T-shirt. We have a list of T-shirt ideas. Yeah, we got a T-shirt, guys, so we're good. We're out of time. You know it's a good podcast when it feels like we just started. Mac is going to be on the Duck Call Room, so I'm super excited about that. For those of you on the unashamed side of things that may not know this, Mac is John David's uncle. Yeah.

And so, you know, a lot of people may not know that. I don't know. Maybe you can explain what happened to John David on the duck car room. Yeah. Well, and you probably don't know this. My wardrobe for this podcast is provided by the Honey Hole.

Oh, well, there you go. When Shay started pushing, he's a shill. Oh, I love their stuff. He loves their stuff. And they're like, keep wearing it because the people are buying, but it's good stuff. So, Mac, it's always great to have you on. Thank you for an amazing weekend. I want to give a shout out to Mary, his wife, who's here because there is no Mac without Mac and Mary. You got that right. Just like every one of us. So thank you guys so much. We love you. We love you being a part of the kingdom and what you're doing. So thanks for coming on, Shay. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast.

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