Ep 1024 | Willie Embraced His Diva Tendencies During ‘Duck Dynasty’ & Jase Has a ‘Joe Rogan Experience’
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I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome to Unashamed. We've already started arguing. Zach, welcome into the Unashamed duck call room. Yeah. Is this your first time in the duck call room? It's my first time recording in the duck call room. No, you were here. We were in here when we did Shane and Shane that time. Yeah, but it was a different setup. Yeah, it was kind of like a six-room. It looked totally different. It had a round table. This is like... No, I sat here at that table.

when the power went out, that's the first time I did an ad read and that you and Phil. Oh, I wasn't here. And that's when Jace told me that Zach all of a sudden turned into a car. So yeah, that was the, where I was one of the funniest memories of my life. When we get to the afterlife, because I think there's going to be a replaying session. Yeah.

Just everybody gathered thousands of people. Do we have edit control on the playing back? Only that's the Lord God. I've got better at it there. I've got a pretty good editor, buddy. Because I've got about 10 arguments going that basically have resulted in we will not know until the afterlife and we have some kind of replay heavenly story.

replay system. And so I'm looking forward to it because my wife and I have about five of those because we just can't, she remembers something differently than I do. And we're 100%, 100% adamant that the recollection that we each have is correct. Well, here's the thing, when I was younger,

I was the same way. Oh, I still the same way. But when I was younger, I was right. A lot more as I've gotten older, I'm still locked in that I'm right. But I found out later, no, you're wrong. Well, that's why these, you know, these politicians will say something and they'll go back and figure out that they, whatever they said never really happened. But I,

I'm not real hard on them because I'm like, if you, the story gets tweaked a little bit and a little bit and you keep repeating it. Especially in our family. Oh my gosh. I mean, we start embellishing off the top. Who knows what's true anymore? We're serial embellishers. Yeah, we've been that way. I'm like pilot at this point. I mean, what is truth? I mean, I can't, I don't, the line is so blurry with the, at least with the stories that we've told and retold.

primarily coming from two people. I think there's two people in our family that struggle with embellishment more than the rest of us. Yeah. They're both named Silas. Yeah. Two people in our family. I'm, I'm, I'm, I got nothing on that. By the way, it's three because you just had to spend enough time around the third Silas, but he's the exact same way. Really? Yeah. Especially when he was a kid. Are y'all talking about me? Yeah. What's going on here, Matty? Is your name Silas? Uh,

Wow. Well, then I wasn't sure I was going to feel, but you being this close to me and me trying to make fun of you just for fun. And it's his birthday. And it's your birthday. But I am really glad that whoever got you that hat for your birthday was looking out for you because I just thought to myself when I saw you today, I thought, you know, if I was from North Carolina and I was coming to Louisiana for Christmas,

Quite a while, a few days. A few days, yeah. I probably need an orange hat so that no one will shoot me. Ha ha ha.

You say that, but I'm looking at a picture right back there of somebody with an orange hat on. There's a bright orange hat. Yeah, they're deer hunting. I'm not the only orange hat in here. Are you hunting in the city limits here? You thought I was making fun of you. I'm not. That was a very good thing. If I were you and I showed up in Louisiana during all hunting seasons are open right now. They're all open. You can never be too safe, Chase. I would think I need to wear an orange hat.

But I just figured someone gave that to you for your birthday. So well done. It was a present. Well, not for my birthday, but somebody did give it to me. Well, yeah. Well, I gave him two hats this morning for his birthday that actually came to me through our buddy that makes hats, and he left them. I knew that was a re-gifting. That was one of the things. I don't got room for this. And he literally just handed them to me. I said, here you go. Happy birthday. They're still there. Now, I do want to say, if you go duck hunting while you're here,

don't wear that hat because although no one would probably shoot you the ducks would see that okay noted i'll make sure i don't put this on i do want to go by the way so you can wear orange hats while deer hunting because deer are colorblind which i think was a bit of humor from the almighty

Because they can see really good. Yeah. But their smell is fantastic, but they don't see colors. I'll tell you what, I drove in last night from North Carolina because me and Al talked about this. If it's under eight, mine's 10 hours. If it's under 10 hours, I'm not flying. Mine's eight now. But mine used to be five.

If it had to be five or I'd fly. But now I've been stuck. Travel is so bad. Oh, we are just missing out. So now it's eight hours. One of the greatest memories I've ever had were 24 hour road trips. Yeah. Yeah.

I love to drive. Well, some of the worst memories I have are 24-hour road trips, too. As long as I'm in control of my own destiny. When you're at the mercy of the airlines, I'd rather be, if I'm going to be stuck, I mean, at least I'm in control. I'm driving my truck. I feel like we've had a breakthrough here. That's it. But anyways, I saw a herd of deer from all the way from, I would say, all the way from, you get over the Mississippi River.

And it's about, what, 67 miles. Is it 67 miles? Yeah, from the Mississippi River to here. Yeah. And I mean... I mean, I've never seen... I mean, it was late at night, but I mean...

you want to talk about the deer that's when they all run around i am yeah hundreds and hundreds and hundreds so zach rolled in i was trying to wait up for you zach your son-in-law beat you here and uh dawson who's a really good guy you the lord blessed you with favor with that one very good and they just celebrated their one year anniversary so we were talking about marriage and life and things such as that so i was going to wait up for zach he was supposed to be at about 10 30. so i gave him until 10 40 you know the robertson way i gave him 10 minutes

I looked over at Dawson and said, you know when your pa and la was getting here? He said, what he said, about 1030 or so.

I said, well, I'm going to bed. I'm sleepy. And so I don't know. When did you get in? I got in about 1145. Yeah. See, Al, I may be a notorious embellisher, but Zach is notorious for being late. That may be true. He learned that from our brother, Willie, who's also notorious. He's also that way. So. Yeah. It's kind of their way. Willie's early if he's two minutes late. He told me that one time. Yeah. He said, no, I read it online. Yeah.

If you're two minutes late, that's the perfect time to be there. Well, back when we were doing the little duck show, Willie showed up pretty close on time at first to call times, and then he figured out pretty quick all they did was make him wait. So he thought, no.

You're not getting me on that one. They just want you around, you know. I was saying, well, I used to always be punctual because, I mean, Phil was real adamant about. And he still did it on the show. He and Cy would come and sit around. But the TV show made, they just could not be on time. Yeah, because you'd have to wait an hour, you know, before you actually did something sometimes. That's a lot of waiting. It's a little bit. I've never understood the waiting game. When we did the movie.

I remember just like we were over overtime every day, which costs you time and a half and it blows the budget. But I was like, we need to hire a guy. I didn't know all the language. We need to hire a guy whose job is just clap and be, hey, come on, let's move it and snap their fingers and move it along. And then I know there's a guy who does that. He's called the AD. That's the way he needs to get on. Is that Anno Domini? Assistant director. Oh, good. You have too many chiefs. Yeah.

Yeah, in a teepee. So last night, our cousin Lulu, who is just one of the best people in the world. She's so awesome. And she listens to the podcast. I know she's going to hear this. She called me and said, my son Casey, who's in college playing college football up in Arkansas. She said he's decided he wants to get baptized.

I said, well, great, because we had talked a little bit back at Thanksgiving. Some of my other cousins got baptized. So I think he's been thinking about it. And so this morning before I came here, I met him down at the church building. It was really interesting conversation because, you know, I always pray on how to explain this to someone young.

because I think people kind of know I need to do it, but sometimes understand the why of it, you know? And so you don't go into a full blown thing, but you kind of want them to understand what this moment's about. And I kept having this thought about family, you know, because obviously he's our cousin and just a good young man, a believer, loves the Lord. And he's just ready to make that all in commitment. And so, and today did that, but he said something really intriguing to me because I was telling the story about,

about how we were doing this. And, you know, places don't matter. The water doesn't matter. None of that stuff matters. But sometimes it matters because it has an attachment to it. So today it happened to be a place where I spent most of my life at WFR at the building. And I was telling him the story about, because he was real close to Harold, his grandpa, our uncle. And I always had an interesting relationship with Harold because he

I was the oldest. I don't know, Jace, if you remember this, but we were living in Farmville. Well, he would have us come over, and I was probably about 10 at the 9 or 10, and he would just work me the whole time.

He had two daughters, and so there were certain things they couldn't do very well, I guess. Hauling firewood. Did he pay you? No. And that was the thing. I was like, I wanted to tell him, you know, how they freed the slaves in the Hebrew days back in Exodus, you know. And yet that's what he kind of had me. But it was because I was a little boy. And so I always kind of thought, man, this guy. But at the same time, I knew he really liked me, and that was kind of his way of showing it.

And so all these years, it was that kind of relationship. He helped, Jace and I, we fell in love with LSU probably because of him and Judy, my aunt. But he stopped by one day after Jace and I were interns at the church and he came up the back stairs. And back then we were all sharing an office. I don't know if he talked to you or not, but he talked to me and he had tears in his eyes. And he said, I just want you and Jace to know something. You know, I am so proud of y'all.

Because I've always wanted to do ministry and I wanted to go to school and I wanted to preach. And, you know, life just didn't take me that direction. But I've always had that desire. And now to see my nephews, you know, getting trained and, you know, he didn't know what was going to happen with us. But he had tears in his eyes and I'd never seen him teared up before in my whole life. And so I was telling Casey that story this morning because I'd never told him that.

And I said, here, 30 years later, we're 30 feet away from where that same conversation happened. And so I said, now here you are making a life decision. And he said what you want young people to say. He said, well, you know, Al, I've got 120 people connected to our football team

And I realized that a lot of them really need to know about Jesus. He said, you know, he said after being with him now for four years, he said, and I'm kind of a leader on the team. He said, but you know, I can't lead people in what I don't know. Hmm.

And so he said, I got to go all in myself. You can't take people where you haven't been. Exactly. And that's what he said. And I thought, man, that's what you want to hear. He's excited. He's going back and he's going to get ready to share Jesus. It was awesome. It was a great way to start the day for me. And it's family. That's why I told him, it's forever family. We talk on podcasts about

being unashamed of the gospel, but it's that Hebrews 2.11, you know, the one that makes us holy is unashamed to call us brothers and sisters. It goes both ways. Yeah. It's a beauty. No, I didn't want to interrupt that beautiful story, but I have vivid memories of being a kid and working. I thought you were part of that, but I wasn't sure. Well, it wasn't that. I guess I didn't really mind it, I thought, you know, because in our family –

It didn't have to be your parents. Right. And one of the worst whoopings I ever got was from Uncle Harold. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Brutal. He was scary. Well, let me tell you, this was a... He scared me. I don't remember any whoopings. I'll just leave it there. I mean, I think if like... There's a statute of limitations. If I would have called 911, he probably would have gone to jail for a short period of time. It was brutal. Brutal.

It's crossed over now. What did you do to receive the? You're so nosy. You want me to share my skeletons. Here's what I did. I'll have to do this so we don't offend the listeners. So there we are.

me and his two daughters and someone else was part of the game i'm willie seemed like he'd have been a little young but maybe it was maybe he was part of the game i'm not sure who the fourth you know yeah the fourth person was well i think we were a little older than so this may have been later it was at his house okay but we used to do like some thanksgiving and christmas up there so we talk a lot about cell phones uh

I guess just in life, we certainly do on the podcast. Chase, you were mentioning that you have to get multiple calls just to find yours, right? I mean, that's what happens when you get older. I have to get other people to call me.

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I want to think it was Willie because this was the beginnings of his Scrabble prowess. We were playing Scrabble. So we'd had to been older than that. I would have been like early teens, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it didn't seem like we were that old, but somewhere in there, somewhere between, you know, 6 and 13. Well, I made a word on the Scrabble board that was a triple word, you know, score that

They said, that's inappropriate. They didn't say inappropriate, but that's a bad word. I did not think it was a bad word. And I said, look it up. And then I gave a Phil Robertson description of the word that I had used. It was a slang word for part of the anatomy. So they went and got...

Their dad, Uncle Harold, and he just saw that word on the Scrabble board. And the next thing I know, it was just, I was twirling around his one arm. And every time I would stop, leather was being applied. And I just thought, that's a word. That is a word.

Was it the syllabic beating that we talked about on the previous podcast? Was he giving you the commentary while he was running you in the circle? Giving me the commentary. We don't talk like this. We don't scrabble like this, Chase. I was playing the game. I was using the word. I was using the letters that were given to me. And I will say with true confession, I did not think that that was –

It wasn't deserving a belt weapon, and I didn't even think it was wrong. I was like, this is- I don't think it deserved a belt weapon. Yeah, this is the game. He was the most intimidating of the seven. Yeah. No, he was. Well, and his siblings, because Dad and Si both said it many times through the years, would say he was the meanest of the crew. Well, that was pretty brutal. They said to me, Frank, he was the second oldest brother. You know what was weird is for years I'd play Scrabble.

And I'd always think, well, you can't use that word. So it did have an impact on you. It was pretty traumatizing. I'm sure if I wind up in a counselor's office one day, we'll be visiting that store. I mean, I got whipped. Your brain under a brain scan, it looks different because of that moment right there. Yeah, it was pretty traumatic. But you know, back then...

Yeah, you know, part of it. The whole family. I mean, I got whipped by my grandparents, by most of my uncles, which is pretty crazy. Yeah, you'd never see that much anymore. No. But at the same time, boy, you had a lot of accountability. Oh, my gosh. Roaming around. Too much accountability. Paul would tell us, he'd say, no, boy, don't make me come over there and thump that gourd. Yeah. And he'd thump you in the back of the head. Well, I guess we turned out all right. I don't – I'm not –

endorsing that but uh it was pretty brutal you know it was a rough memory and i never heard that story before oh yeah that's the beautiful thing about a podcast is you start telling stories i was like i've never heard that one before yeah i know i think that's the first i've heard of it as well he was prophetic because the last thing he said to me is like you'll never forget this and i haven't

Well, I mean, again, he was very intimidating. You're feeling sorry for me now. I do feel sorry for you. I was scared of him, for sure. I was scared of him. At Granny's funeral, he showed up. I mean, he showed up at his mom's funeral, but...

He was so mad that he said, one of y'all showed up with that big beard. It was dead inside. Well, it's actually what I was going to say is how he did come down to my office and say the same thing. But since we had had a different journey in our relationship. You wanted to bring up that. No, I just was very blunt. And I said, I appreciate it, but I'm not going to be here long. And he...

He went from teary-eyed to say, well, what's the problem? I need to break out my belt. And I actually said, I said, you see this office here? I said, you know what the problem with it is? I said, there's two things. And he was looking around. I said, there's no people in here but you. I was like, I believe God has called me to be with people. I can't do offices. I said, and the second thing is there's no window. Okay.

And that was why I resigned. I was an intern for a couple of years. There was some kind of period days back there, and I'm not sure why they did it, but we had to wear ties for a while. Do you remember that? That was probably the third thing that was... You had to wear a tie to preach. We had to wear a tie when we came up to the building. And they finally suspended it, thank goodness. But for a while, for a period, when we were interning, we had to wear ties. Like just...

No, I did it. Yeah, I did it. But when I, it's funny because they wanted me to write down, because I said I was resigning and they were like, they handed me a form. And I was like, it's called an exit interview. I'm not going to fill out this form. And I was like, because one of the reasons that I'm resigning is that you have a form for me to say,

And I gave them the same speech. And I just had a Bible study where a guy said, the only reason you're doing this is because it's your job. And, you know, I was immature, but I just, in that moment, I do think through the immaturity, God just led me down a different path. I said, I'm just going to be a regular guy. I'm going to build duck calls, you know, fish the river. I kind of went to what my dad had done.

And I'm just going to preach Jesus for free. I mean, that was the statement I made. I was like, because what was happening is, and now you remember this, I was studying with so many people back then because I had made a list from high school, kind of like our young new brother here in our family. And I was going down the list. Well, that list didn't have a clock. I mean, most of the studies I was doing was at night. Well, then I had to come to the office every

And sit there all day. And I'll tell you what I did most of the time there. Slept. I slept. There's no window. Right. There's nobody in there. I mean, I sat down. What am I going to fill out some paperwork? I would walk in because we'd have a meeting or something to go to. And I knew I'd go. Because I was always looking after Jay. And so I'd go down there and I'd go in there. And he'd look up and just be, you know, like, oh,

on his face where he'd been laying down on his hand with just these streaks and I was like go wash your face we got a meeting in 15 I finally set up my chair I had one of these chairs that would fold back and I I would make it into a bed but I had to do it where when someone knocked on my door it could pop up in three seconds I would pop up laughing

Hey, that's the worst. Because, you know, you were doing your ministry at O'Banion's Pool Hall. Oh, yeah. That's where ministry was. They were wanting me to fill out forms on all that. And I was like, you don't want to know where I was last night because I wouldn't be here anymore. It's going to make you uncomfortable. But it just didn't work for me. But, you know, Jase, you helped change our culture of leadership there. I mean, and I guess I did too.

over the course of time that we began to start focusing on what was most important. Because those guys that trained us, they came from a background, you wore a tie every day. Yeah. That was just part of it. Yeah, that's what it was back then. Yeah, I mean, you had dress your best, you had look best. Sunday, don't even think about showing up without a full suit, tie, the whole bit. And so you had the mindset to change. That's not where most people are.

And so over the course of time, that changed. Now, look, having said this, I do think I was right in principle, but I don't want to make it seem like – I was young and very outspoken. Right.

And so some of the things I did in meetings, I regret, although I think my principle and my heart was right. Because I remember I gave this big speech one time in a meeting about, it's not about this building. Because I was still bitter that they're making me punch a clock when I just, technically, I was doing the Lord's work all night. I'm tired. I'm sleepy. I don't want to come to the building.

So one of the elders was like, well, I mean, what is your, he was kind of asking like, where are you at on the use of a building? Because you seem to be attacking everything about the building. And I said, burn it.

Were you a shock jock? I don't know where you got that from. But I mean, that just didn't go over well. That was then a meeting after the meeting of that is just crazy talk. You know, what are you talking about? Yeah.

So you were going to get fired if you didn't. I was never going to make it in that city. Your time there was limited. Yeah, Jace lacked the diplomacy necessary. No diplomacy. But you were great at that. Oh, I was good at it. That's why you're- It actually helped me. Jace helped me to be even more when I needed to be. But I was in the same place Jace was. In fact, when I later became the main pastor, I guess, I hate to even call it that,

But whenever I preached and was leading the whole church, I told all our employees, I was like, if this building catches on fire and you call the fire department, you're fired. So along with the firing of the building, if they come and put it out, you're fired.

because this thing is a, I mean, you're talking about a money pit. Oh, yeah. A building like ours is 60 years old. We put so much money into it that, I mean, the only really way to solve it is burn it down. But, I mean, I know you can't do that. That's a crime. No one burned the building down. Don't burn the building down. Disclaimer, don't burn the building down. I'm just kidding, but I tell our employees, don't do it. If it happens naturally, just. But, I mean, honestly, you think about,

the emphasis of the last two years of this podcast has been really from the scripture that the God's not in the building. I mean, he is in the building because we're in the building, but he doesn't live in the temples built by man's hand. ♪

Well, the hard part, Zach, is for people to embrace that. Let's take another break. The hard part for people to embrace the idea about the building there. Well, wait a minute. God spent a whole chapter telling Solomon how to build the temple. But his point always was to show by the building of it and by telling Solomon exactly how to build it, the whole idea was to show one day that it's not necessary. Well, you know what's funny about that in 1 Kings 8?

when he dedicates the temple that God had given the instructions to build, at the end of it, he asked this question, at the end of all that, Solomon says, surely, and I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have it in front of me, but something to the effect of, surely God does not live in a house made by me. That's right. And it wasn't a, like he's like pointing out the obvious, like even in the dedication of the temple after Solomon built it, he recognized that,

the ridiculous nature, the God who made everything is going to dwell in a house made by man? I don't think so. Exactly. And surely this house won't contain you. And it was, that nugget right there was the same message that Jesus gave when he, before his crucifixion, he said, if you destroy this temple, I will rebuild it in three days, talking about his body. Right.

And it's the same, and they got him killed, by the way. It's the same message that Stephen gave right before he was martyred when Stephen said, God does not live in temples built by man's hands, and he was killed for it. Acts chapter 7. Acts 7. John 2 was the first one. Which we're about to be in in a few weeks. And then Paul. Paul said it in Acts 17. Acts 17. We're seeing a common thread. That's where I was getting my take on the building.

But I would even go back to John 1, 14, which I think if you're going to put greatest profound statements of the Bible, the word became flesh. The logic of God, the wisdom of God, the word became human and made his dwelling, which in the Greek, that doesn't seem like that big a thing. But when you look at the Greek word that was used and tabernacled,

Among us, the building became a man housing God in human form or pitched a tent is what these scholars will use that phrase to define it, because it goes back to the system of Judaism where they had the temple, they had the tabernacle, and it was.

The thought, and true, that this is where God and humans meet. That's why this says this in John 1, 14. And they did meet there. But that's also why in the last verse of chapter 1, when he told Nathanael, he said, you'll see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.

Well, that goes back to, you remember Jacob's Ladder, where they called that place Bethel? I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I believe that means house of God. So here and in the tabernacle or temple, these angels would be on each side, which is why I think there were two angels on each side at the tomb.

All of these things are pointing to... You remember, Jase, the picture that's described in what you're talking about was a ladder coming down out of heaven, and the angels were descending and ascending along this ladder. The idea was, I'm coming to be with you. I mean, he was given in that vision way back. Yeah. It's so funny, Tiff. I was thinking about this as we were singing some songs at church on Sunday, and I

I thought, man, how many songs have I sung over the years that actually cultivate an imagination for the complete opposite of what we're talking about? I was thinking that one song that it talks about like heaven. This world is not my home. I'm just a passing through. My treasures are laid up somewhere way out there beyond the blue. We've sang these songs all these years, and we've been catechized in this way.

idea that somehow that God's going to only come in that building and one day we get to go be with him. But we're missing the point of where Jason mentioned that

of heaven and earth coming together. That is the point of the temple. I mean, it is the point that God's presence, God comes to be, it's where man and God meet in the temple. And so it's pretty profound when you think about God coming from and where he's coming to, and he puts himself in a human body.

I mean, you can't overestimate or overemphasize the importance of that because God's ultimately going to make his home in human bodies, which is the ultimate connection of bringing heaven and earth together. It's in us. So our treasures aren't laid up somewhere beyond the blue.

Our treasures are actually laid up in him. He's in us. It's just like that. Remember the song mansion over the hilltop. So there was a mansion over the hilltop, but we are the mansion. Yeah. The mansion is right here. I mean, it's, it's housing the Holy, you know what makes a mansion? The Holy spirit living inside. Yeah. Well, I think it comes from John 14, which we'll get to where, when he said in my father's house are many rooms, but yeah,

The older I get, the more I look at that, I don't think he was talking about what people think it was talking about. Because he was talking about him ascending to the right hand of God and pouring out his Holy Spirit. And we know from 1 Peter 2, the house is being built right here. Well, exactly. I mean, it's being built up in the Holy Spirit. Yeah, Ephesians 2, we rise and become the temple of God.

by his Holy Spirit. But all of that eschatology is right here in John 1. Eschatology. We've already gone there. It's in John 1. We've embraced that one. That's a term that's been thoroughly vetted in this podcast. The audience has testified to it. You shouldn't be surprised. You're using words that I'm having to look up and it's distracting.

A while ago you said catechizing. I wondered if you were going to say that. Well, that's that repetitive learning and being shaped by the teachings of the church. Not categorize, but catechize. Catechize. In fact- Like a catechism. Because I tried to spell it, and according to the internet, I could not find that, so I must have a spelling issue. It's got a surprise Y in there, I think. It goes back to my Scrabble issues.

You could use it in Scrabble. There was a word used in Scrabble. I will say this about the Robertsons. Y'all were great Scrabble players. But... Well, we hijacked the system because I memorized every two and three letter word, especially using the letter Q and X. Yeah. Y'all would know the words, but you wouldn't know what they meant. That was the problem. They said dad. Then dad was an English. He got his degree in English. And so then he learned...

Yeah. Expanded his vocabulary. Do you guys remember the famous ergo? He used the word ergo. Yeah. And somebody challenged him. I think it was Willie. He said, that's not a word in the course. So catechize is C-A-T-E-C-H-I-Z-E. I said Y, but it says Z. So good word. It instructs in the principles of Christian religion that

by means of question and answer, typically by using a catechism, which is the word that we use. We should do this every time because I don't use these words. Yeah. I got it. I knew where he was going. Because if I... Any of our Catholic listeners... Well, I'm dealing with the real people and I'm having...

about Jesus, mainly in the duck blind, because right now it's duck season. But you put it in a context, some people, they may not, they kind of understand what you're saying. Well, but I'm just saying if a man of duck blind and we're talking about somebody's life. You're not going to use the word catechized. Because he'd say, what'd you call me? No, I'm not sure I can do that. Well, you got a first to find who is he. Now we know.

All this time, this thing about the words and everything, Jace has finally revealed on the podcast today what's happened. That memory all the way back to Big H giving him the belt whip and over the word. That's what happened. So now he's got this whole thing about if it's a little bit off, he reacts so strongly. You have PTSD. Yeah, that's right. That's what this is. No, I think what it is is when the word became flesh, I thought, oh good, I don't have to learn all the words. The word is...

Is a person. That's good. I like that. A word is a person. So therefore...

If I come up and talk to another person about God, I can introduce a person. Yeah. And I don't have to use words based on human wisdom. I love that. What's the Paul quote? It was the hypostatic union that brought you to understand it. But when you push back so much, I read the book of Acts, and I wanted to make sure there were no apologetic arguments during that whole discourse of the birth of the church. Yeah.

And you realize that there were apologetic. No, it was pretty much a declaration that Jesus is the son of God. He died. The X-17 is quite the apologetic. There was a few moments where they had a discourse, but the words translated were pretty simple. So you'll want to refer back two days to the Not Yet Now podcast. I interviewed Dr. William Lane Craig. I actually asked him this question, who I would argue is one of the world's greatest Christian apologists. I asked him the question on the podcast.

How do you respond? And then I levied out the charge that has been brought. And he had a brilliant response. I'm not going to tell you what it is. You've got to go listen to it. But anyways. So, well, let me jump in here. Shameless plug for the- Shameless plug. Since we have a new set for a limited time, then we're going to have a newer set, right? Yeah, we got a newer set coming. We're in a transition mode, boys. Can I just say this? I do need to repent.

I was wrong. It is way more than six feet. This is almost to a point where it's awkward. I told you I didn't want this setup. Without the earphones. But not for me because I spent probably 10 years here building duck calls. This is like home for you. Well, you got to think who I was. I like a much. I mean, this has got to be every bit of 12 feet. You got to think about who I was sitting with.

You wanted distance is what you're saying. Distance was preferred. Okay. We're talking Si. Have you ever watched the Duck Call Room podcast? They're yelling so much, especially Si, that the spittle, I'm thinking they had to do this just to get you out of range of all the yelling. Yeah. Well, I sat here and built duck calls with Si, Martin, Godwin, Jay Stone. Mountain Man was here for about two years. You had a group of characters. So I actually, in a weird –

duck commander meeting one time said because they were all talking about how we can improve things i said you know what i would really improve the duck hall room and they were like well i mean it was like jason has an idea i said i think whoever's cleaning this place should clean that room every day after we leave i was not kidding it's not about nobody said a word

Because that was the height of all, you know, it was mountain man. I mean, mountain man inside. Bathing is optional. It was musty in there. And I don't know. It was a lot of men. So we're working on a new studio for us. Yeah, that'll happen. We're in the process of moving now. We may upgrade some furniture. I know y'all have complained about the chairs. I have a new prop that I want to introduce. You got it with you? Yeah, I do. Oh, come on, somebody. I actually took it from this room. Oh, wow.

So now we may get in trouble. When we have a drum roll opportunity, I have a set of drums. Oh, a cajon or what do they call it? And I actually, I was waiting for you to say something that I wanted to.

Which I think sometimes when Zach gets into one of his long, like he's really on a run because he gets on one of those every once in a while, you should lightly play the bongos behind what he's saying. Yeah, because that's not a typical drum roll there. That was like an island drum roll. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like a behind the, you know, you could do that. And I think he'd probably get going and just never stop if you started doing it.

Well, now I'll reveal why I did the drum roll. Because we always have this relationship of I try to keep it simple. Zach tries to keep it complex. Oh, no, that sounded wrong. Zach uses big words. But I have a drum roll moment.

I actually listened to my first podcast over the weekend. Oh, wow. I had never listened to another podcast. You mean like our podcast? You don't listen to our podcast. Not our podcast. But I listened because I got three different messages. I had a really weird weekend. I got three different messages on two totally different issues. And I'll share both, I guess, if we have time.

But this one was, you need to check this out. And it was, the problem is everybody sent it to me in a form of social media. So you got this from multiple people. Three different people sent me a clip. One of them was like Facebook. One of them was like Instagram. Well, the problem is I can't go to any of those places because I don't know my password. I don't frequent them.

And so now I have people in my family real close to me that, you know, represent me kind of like, you know. They know how to get there. They do the heavy lift. They do the extra presentation. So I thought, well, I guess I just need to go find the source. I mean, you can make some spiritual analogies here. So it was actually a Joe Rogan podcast.

That's what you listen to? That's the first one I've ever, anybody's podcast, first one I've ever listened to. I'm with about 10 million. Because, because there was a guest on there who was, he's from Zach's camp. He's a Christian apologist. Yeah, he's a Christian apologist, but he's more into the reliability of the Bible, the 66 books. And this guy is like,

One of his hobbies is taking original manuscripts that were written on papyrus and copper, and he can replicate them. He can write. This guy knows all the languages. Three-fourths of the words that came out of his mouth I had never heard because it was over my head. Did Rogan seem to be? Well, that's what I was going to say. I watched the whole thing. It was three hours and 15 minutes.

Every time you complain about our podcast, Lee Chase, just think about Joe Rogan. If you were doing that five days a week. Yeah. So I watched that because, you know, and how they met, I thought was interesting because this guy, his name was Huff was his last name. And, uh, you know, I don't know him personally, but I've started, I saw, I saw the same interview and started following his work on Instagram. Yeah. And, uh, so I, what I thought was funny is this Huff guy has a debate with a guy about

who, like, picks and chooses what he believes in the Bible because everything in the Old Testament, anything that he deemed negative, he's like, well, this is not legitimate. Well, they had a debate. I'll watch that. Well, this Huff guy, he didn't just win. This was like, imagine Muhammad Ali, you know, fighting Zach. I mean, it was...

- Intellectually or physically? - Physically. - Okay. - It was a complete, just like, so, well, this Rogan had had this other guy on his podcast and like entertain some of that. How do we know the Bible's reliable? And you know, I've always looked at it like, I've never gone down that road because when I read the book of John, I just thought this is based on faith, but it was so thrilling.

it made so much sense even about jesus i just said nobody could have made this up so i didn't feel like i ever had to go down that road this guy went down the road and after i listened to this i mean it was such a powerful argument on how we got the bible and uh it would take somebody doing this for years and have this kind of mind yeah

Well, it was just fun to see Joe Rogan. He just didn't have an answer for it. I mean, he was like, fascinating. This is fantastic. Is Rogan an atheist? Well, he kind of... I think he's like... That came up in the interview, and he was like... I don't know. Well, I don't either. He also had a line about Jordan Peterson, who is obviously... He's been on there too, right? Look, I'm not promoting the podcast, because what I was shocked at...

A couple times, this Huff would have such a compelling argument that Rogan's response would be, man, that's some crazy, and he would have a Scrabble board moment. And I thought...

I think he meant that as a compliment. Oh, I think he did. And he uses four-letter words. I mean, like the F word, you know. Every time I see him quoted on TV, there'd be... But to your point and to your ministry that you talked about earlier, there's a correlation here because I think so... We've backed up and said, we're going to do ministry in the church.

And we've lost the culture. And I love that Huff is going into other places. I love, like, you went to the bar. Like, we need to be taking the gospel into the world. We don't have anything to fear. My introduction to apologetics, which is what that guy's doing, by the way, was...

I was struggling. I talked about this on the podcast. Not yet now, which, again, shameless plug. But you need to hear it because Dr. Craig was the first person that I had ever come in contact with. And I would argue this guy, Craig is like a savant when it comes to just biblical knowledge, defending the truths of the scripture, the historicity of the resurrection. You name it. I mean, he's got about six or seven arguments that he has just owned.

And I was really at a crisis of faith. I tell my story on the podcast, but there was a moment when I was at the end of my rope because I did not believe, I hoped that it was true, but I had a lot of doubts. And I get into this, make the story short, to a Google vortex situation.

I wound up looking at watching a debate between Dr. Craig and I don't even remember the atheist who it was now, and I didn't know what he was talking about. I could probably understand about 10% of what this guy was saying, but I knew he was winning the debate.

And so I ordered his book called Reasonable Faith, which is the name of his ministry. I should not have ordered that book. It was way too deep for me. It took me three and a half months to read it because I just didn't understand everything in it. But that, for me, that was the awakening. How old were you? I was 26. I'm 47 now. So it was 21 years ago. And I never even read books. I mean, honestly, I'm ashamed to say this. I think the last book I had read

but before I read that book was a book called James and the giant peach that I read when I was in elementary school. I just didn't read. I mean, I read the Bible, but then that's what started me. And I was so intellectual. That was your choice. That was it. I went from James and the giant peach to reasonable faith. Before that it was C spot run. It was a Beverly Cleary books and Hardy boys. And yeah, but I mean, um,

I love that branch of Christian theology, the apologetics, and there's a lot of different branches even inside of that that for me have been super, super transformational. But to your point, you know what? The most transformational thing after I've gone through and studied as much as I've studied is I come back and I read the Gospel of John and I'm like—

you can't make this up. Well, I've always, so what was your takeaway Jace from the whole, well, I thought obviously thought it was a positive, uh, just because, because Rogan's got a huge audience. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, uh, well, I thought it was a positive just cause then a few days later, I didn't watch this episode. I'm still at one podcast, but, uh,

I just noticed a lot of people commented then he had Mel Gibson on and he kind of asked the same questions, you know, and I was like, I think this guy is reconsidering because he was kind of in bed with the other guy that had this debate, you know, with Huff, which he thought, OK, I was wrong.

Because, I mean, he was no nonsense on that. He's like, you clearly knew what you were talking about and backed this up and have made me rethink this whole thing. I love that. The guy you debated, he doesn't know what he's talking about, and his career is over. I mean, it was like – because then the guy who lost the debate –

He's like threatening to sue if it was released. He was trying to get out of it. He just got in over his head. I mean, this guy started saying, well, let's just get into whatever language you want to get in. And some of the things he said, I'll just give you a nugget. One thing he said is the book of Isaiah for hundreds of years, the oldest original that we had was,

was what's in the New Testament now. Well, then, I don't know how many years ago, I can't remember, but maybe 100 years ago, they find another manuscript. I think it was the Dead Sea Scrolls. Didn't they find that in the 30s or 40s? 40s. Yeah, 40s. So when they find it, well, they find the book of Isaiah. So then everybody was like, oh, no, because what if, you know? Oh, yeah, they're fixed to scale. See all these differences, you know? And so this huff's talking. I'm just giving you the high points here.

And did you know that it was written a thousand years before the one we had? And it was word for word. And so when Rogan heard that, he was like, you gotta be, I'm going to paraphrase what he said. You gotta be kidding me. Word for word. Word for word. How is that even possible? Exactly. How could, how could the, you know, passing it down orally be,

Be memorized to that point. It made me think of that movie Denzel Washington did that time about... The book of Eli. Eli. And I mean, if you haven't, I don't want to ruin the movie for you. He had memorized it. Yeah. And he was blind, but he could see. It was fascinating. It's hard for us to understand that because our culture is, I mean, we have been so...

changed by Google that we don't have to memorize anything. In fact, I was thinking about this the other day. You know how many phone numbers that I actually know? That's like five. Well, guess how many I know. Probably nine. Zero. Do you know your own phone number? No. So they say, what's your phone number? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. And they're looking at me horrified. Yeah.

And I'm like, you people did this to us. Numbers, you have made numbers obsolete. So I want to button this up because I know I said there was two interesting thing happened. I just want to make this announcement. I am not, I'm not undercover. I did not do a show called American Primeval because three different people sent a picture to me and said, is that you? Oh, this thing is blowing up on Netflix.

Yeah. It's supposed to be the most violent show ever. Yeah, well, I checked out the first few minutes of it, which I thought it was...

Wasn't boring. I haven't watched it. But I thought, I don't even think. There's a character that looks like you? I don't even think that. Evidently, because three different people. And then I showed it to my wife, and she said, that does look like you. So I just wanted y'all to know. This is an episode, by the way. It's not me. As we're talking here, Matty, I'm thinking of all the different title descriptions that we could go with on this episode. There's a lot. Yeah.

Well, look, I will show you what I got this morning from, look, a person who's not even in my phone, so I don't know who this is. And look, they sent this picture. Does that look like me? Oh, gosh, it kind of does. I'll send this to Matty. At about 10 pounds. It actually does. Hold on, I want to say one thing before we leave. I know we got just a few minutes. But that oral tradition is so important because we have a hard time understanding what that is. But in Jewish culture, they could pass down –

large amounts of information, generation to generation to generation to generation. And one of the most powerful oral traditions in the scripture is in 1 Corinthians 15, which is one of the anchor texts of the church that we all grew up in, which is, this is an oral tradition that Paul received. I want to read it as we close because it is the actual gospel.

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, otherwise you believed in vain. For what I delivered to you is of first importance, what I also received, and here's the old tradition, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried and he was raised again.

on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. That's an oral tradition that Paul received. It's one of the evidences, the earliest accounts of the gospel, they say that this was given within 15 months of the actual event. Which if you look at the history of how we access history, this is so reliable 'cause we don't have events

recorded this this close or we don't have records to this close to the event in history so it's one of just something i thought about when you were talking about that but anyways shows the power and we're not ashamed of it so that's what i don't think we ever got started with this podcast well and yet it has to end all right we'll see you next time

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