Ep 1029 | Supernatural Experts Explore Angels, Demons, Giants & a Creepy Robertson Family Legend
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How do you accidentally take off your beard? I was like doing the trim and I was like, oh, uh-oh. You just left it offside of you. Did I hurt your feelings on the coat thing? Because you immediately took it off. He hasn't worn it since. I thought that was funny. Did you have a bad coat? Yeah, I was wearing a coat. I mean, I was like, hey, you're in Louisiana. And I gave him a nugget that's unknown. I was like,

I know what you're doing here by this coat that's like this thick, but the last time a person froze to death in Louisiana was 1747.

He was a pirate. He was a pirate. Probably. I broke him down mentally. I said, you wore an orange hat, which says I'm scared somebody's going to shoot me. I think we're rolling. I think we're rolling. Well, this is a good start. Welcome to the Unshamed Podcast. We call it a cold. Where no plan is a plan. Cold open. Yep. So we have some friends in from Tennessee, Nashville, and Nashville adjacent. Mostly Nashville adjacent. Well, we're from California, but we ended up in Tennessee somehow.

That seems to be happening a lot. Not like that, though. We were way ahead of the curve. I've been there since my 12th year in Tennessee, and Nate's even been there even longer. So we got out when it was still bad, but it isn't like now. We got there when it was a little sleepy town, and now it's a busy town.

It's kind of like the Las Vegas of the South. Yeah, exactly. It's getting wild. You guys, Blurry Creatures podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Blurry Creatures. Blurry Creatures. And I misunderstood because I thought the reason you were here, I thought it was called Furry Creatures. Yeah. And so I thought, well, yeah, it's perfect around here because everybody's pretty furry. And then they corrected me that it was. Well, y'all sent me a memo last night that said we'll have the Blurry Creatures podcast.

Oh, man. For the podcast. Luke and Nate, these guys have been, how long have you been doing this, by the way? This is year five. Yeah, year five. This is year five starting here. 2025, we started in 2020. Perfect time to start a podcast. Yeah, especially about weird stuff. We started in 18, so yeah. Since I'm the most absent from the internet and the social media world, what exactly is Blimey Creatures? This is a good question, too. Yeah. It's a good way to start it.

You know, we kind of started this podcast trying to marry the paranormal. You know, there's a lot of paranormal stuff, podcasts, talk about UFOs, aliens, Bigfoot, all that stuff. Oh, wow, y'all are conspiracy theorists. Well, I don't know. After this episode, maybe not conspiracies, but maybe truths, you know. Exactly. That's what we... And then there was this whole other world of, you know, this theological thread where a lot of guys that...

There wasn't really a marriage of the two where, you know, there's strange stuff in our Bible. There's strange stuff that people experience, everything, you know, under the sun. And there was just a lot of people who were willing to talk about it on either sides, but no one was really kind of put those things together. We did. Really? So you are a Christian conspiracy theorist. Well...

They would not call themselves conspiracy theorists. Oh, well, I don't mean that negatively. Yeah. But they look into the paranormal, which I will say it's interesting because you guys mentioned someone who's been influential in your...

the spiritual side, Michael Heiser. Yeah, we bring doctors on the show and Heiser was one of our... Yeah, you guys have had Tim Mackey on the show. We had Mike on twice before Mike passed away. Yeah. But we had Heiser on twice. I think, Nate, we've talked about this a lot, but his book, Unseen Realm, which we were talking about yesterday, Zach, that you just read a couple weeks ago,

was really like a seminal piece of our show and influence on our show because we... I think what Nate was saying is true. We...

We're just trying to talk about and contextualize a lot of the things that people experience and see. Things we're talking about in mainstream media. We kind of hit it at a crazy time because we're two years into the podcast in 2022, and all of a sudden Congress is having House Oversight Committees on UAPs, right? And we're already talking about the weird stuff and trying to contextualize it within a biblical worldview, a biblical context. So if we're Christians, how are we to think about the weird stuff? And when we look at our Bible, how do we –

Think about some of the things that people would want to gloss over on Sundays, whether it be the conquest of the promised land by Joshua, giants, or you go to Genesis 6, which is not a passage you have preached on Sundays a lot because you have this very odd sons of God to sell the daughters of men. It's how they were fair, and they took them as wives, and they're Nephilim in the land, and they're after, and these were the...

Men of Renown, et cetera, right? This is Genesis 6, 1 through 4. And even later, with Goliath. Yeah, the Rephaim. Left over 10-foot-tall people, and you're like, okay. Yeah, that one I was reading. So you guys were the – I want to say y'all were the first people that introduced me to Heiser's work, which I ignored at first. No, we just had a conversation about Bigfoot, which is where –

This is where our show, like sort of tongue in cheek, begins. Even every episode, right? It's like there's this Bigfoot's the gateway drug. It's the most seen cryptid in the United States and in the world. And especially it's part of Americana now. But you have so many hundreds, if not maybe even thousands of encounters, reported encounters a year.

And as Heiser said, and I promise this is full circle, but as Mike said and said on our show, which kind of stuck with us, is that if even one of these is true, is real, right, then it busts the paradigm. And you've got to figure out how you put something this odd into your worldview. And how do you make sense of that? And I think...

The 2022 with the UAP stuff, we had mainstream media with Tucker Carlson. We had a number of others, Joe Rogan, of course, but like these other mainstream voices, right? Cause mainstream media is dying. There's a whole nother conversation, but things like Sean Ryan show and Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson are talking about this now, right? This, this whole UA UFO thing, which was just sort of relegated to wearing tinfoil hats and, and, and all that before. Um,

- Yeah, but it's a pretty old phenomenon. People have been seeing these creatures for decades. People have been seeing UFOs for a long time and I think as Christians there's not a lot of spaces to talk about these things so we provided a space and we didn't think it was gonna be what it's become but it kind of blew up and I think it's kind of weird. Just all the people who've had experience and are into the weird things. - It's interesting 'cause I'm just meeting you guys but

I mean, I've been studying and teaching and preaching the Bible for most of my adult life. Yeah. And it's so much involving another realm and people that are interacting on this earth back and forth with angels. So it's interesting. People say, oh, I'm about 80. It's like, well, the Bible is full of it because –

We got angels coming and going. We got demons. We got a lot of interaction with another realm. So what's so shocking about things we can't really explain and describe? Right, but that's the paradigm, though, right? This is what we talk about often on the show is that we, you know, the Bible's written to an ancient Near Eastern audience. This is Mike's stick. I mean, this is where he goes, right? And we're 21st century Americans, and we read it like it's written to us, right? But I think the separation, too, as you do point out, is like –

We're like post-enlightenment, Cartesian philosophy, academic era, imperial paradigms where we want to measure. It's a scientific thing. And I think, sadly, in a lot of ways in the church, we sort of – this is just a broad – Well, Mike Heiser, he said that the average seminarian graduate only gets two classes on angels and demons. Wow. Classes, not like a full –

just like almost like a lecture, two lectures. Yeah. Not yet. Yeah. Two lectures inside. Yeah. Yeah. Not two courses. Not two courses. Yeah. Two lectures. And think about how many times there's interaction in the scriptures across thousands of years because of old Testament history and new Testament. We, they're everywhere. And that's my point. Like, I think, I think we live in, in a weird way. We've kind of separated the natural from the supernatural and in the Western church. That's right. And,

And so this becomes like then a paradigm buster to be like, and we talk about in the context of this, like what is an extraterrestrial, right? And this is an example. It's something that's not of Earth. So what's an angel then? Angels are not Earth-born. The sons of God sang for joy at the creation of the Earth, is what Job says. So they by definition would be extraterrestrial. And that's a whole rabbit trail to go down, but like the idea...

that we can create context around a lot of the weird. And that our Bibles got a lot of weird stuff in it that we just don't typically talk about in your-- - Well, the podcast is a great format to do that, right? Because it's just two people asking questions and bringing on experts.

and there's really not like a committee or anyone's gonna shut you down. - You'll have a board. - Yeah, it's a bunch of elders saying that. - Members of my family could fill up about six episodes. The problem with having five people, you can't get a word in here edgewise. But look, the closest, the one time I thought I saw Bigfoot, no lie, I'll tell you the story. - I love this. - Judge for yourself.

But we had shot down a duck. It was all my, I think Al was there. Willie was there. We shot down a duck and it was kind of hazy looking. And the backdrop was big woods. And I just looked up and I thought, that looks just like the picture that you always see of Bigfoot.

And then I realized it was Willie with his arms at a distance. But I would, in that moment, I thought, there he is. So I'm not shocked that you ran up on Willie. And I've also seen my dad on two or three different occasions ask someone if they were an angel.

And he was serious. Yeah. He was like. Because of Hebrews 13. Yeah, you entertain angels. You entertain angels. And one weird thing that happened, that this was kind of serious then, we laugh now. But so my grandma, she had, how would you describe that, Al? Well, they say now bipolar. Back in the day, it was manic depressive. She had a. Mental. She lived right by my parents. And so she would have these episodes of,

That would last for a few weeks. And she literally became another person. She wouldn't sleep. She was lithium deficient, which we didn't know at the time. We found out much later. She would have these spells. And she was literally out of her mind. I mean, not this. Because normally she was just our grandmother. Exactly. And she's like, I never heard her say a cuss word in her life, except during the spells. And, you know.

And she like painted the inside of the house red. And remember, she bought all the bananas out of grocery stores and then rubbed bananas on the outside of the house. So it was kind of sad. But one night, we were all together, our entire family. And we were like, what are we going to do? I mean, do we load her up? And Al probably remembers this specifically. And Zach, your dad said...

You know, have we thought about maybe she's demon possessed? And when he said that, all the lights went off in the house immediately. And I was like that. Oh, wow.

It's about the most terrified I've ever been in my life. It got quiet. It got quiet. Yeah. Now, what we later found out was a picture had fallen off the porch and there was like a main light switch. There was a light switch behind the picture and it clicked the lights off, which doesn't make it any less weird that that would happen as soon as that was said. But again, to your point about explaining things,

- That was weird that it came out at that moment. - The timing is real. - The timing was real, that happened. Y'all were there, you remember it happening and I thought, you know what, I think I might have to revisit my thought on modern day demon possession. I remember thinking that. I thought, what are the odds of that happening? - Yeah, I mean we brought Exorcists on our show and talked to them about kind of what they go through and what their experience is

And there's a little difference between deliverance and exorcist and kind of how they go about things. But it seems like there's an uptick in that. And look, my grandma would later become healed, which was... Really? Yes. How did that happen? Well, I think...

I mean, me personally, I think a lot of it was prayer and, you know, she loved the Lord, but also they got her a different medication. And she got stable in a stable environment too, I think. In the last how many years of her life? So from when she was in her early 70s until she died, she was 96. So her last 23 or four years. Perfectly normal. No, everything. But from 40 to.

To 70, it was these patterns. And she went into mental hospitals. And, you know, mental health through the decades here have been pretty significant. Yeah. I mean, now we kind of laugh at some of the stories. It wasn't funny then, but like –

I mean, I just remember. It's kind of survival when it's your family. Yeah, I remember opening the screen door and she did not have one stitch of clothing on and said, come on in. And I was like. That's not something you can unsee. Grandma, I might scar you a little bit. You wish that was blurry, right? We needed a blurry creature.

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slash unashamed rocket money.com slash unashamed. You've got something you want to share. I know people are going to think this was planned, but I did not know y'all were coming until last night, right before I knew y'all were coming. And now that I kind of am familiar with what y'all do, because I thought blurred creatures, I thought you'd either used to have a battle with whiskey or you'd had some kind of head trauma, but I wasn't sure.

That was a joke. A buddy of mine sent me this video last night and I will read under the video. This is a security camera. And once I found out y'all were going to be on, I actually called him and said, can I, can I use this? Because this is, was his message. And I'll show you, it says, explain this. And look, you'll see yesterday he sent me this. So this is before I knew y'all were coming. Explain this.

last night behind the house. So, I thought it was visual, and so I turned it on and nothing happened. And then I realized that it was the sound. So this is the security camera outside their house. And I just want y'all to listen. It's pretty long, but at some point you'll hear these noises since y'all are in the blurred creature. You hear that? Wait for it. There it is. That is strange. And this is after dark. This is, let's see. What's the location?

This is 1-12. It was at 9.42 p.m. And where was this at? I don't want to tell you where it's at. At the state. Because, well, these guys may be like them crystal ball people, you know, they ask you a bunch of questions. Then they form an opinion. No, I just, based on what you heard...

Diagnose it. What is it? Well, I did ask the guy and he said, well, don't say where I'm at because I don't want people, you know, Ghostbusters showing up in my yard.

But now he he contacted a biologist. I mean, they sent this off. And so then I called him back and I was like, look, I got two blurry creatures. And if you want to find out what this is, let's just open it up to the public. Let them listen. So there it was. And I'll get your take. Now, I realize that's.

that's just a sound yeah but i'm gonna say this i've been in the woods a long time i've never exactly heard that sound and i'll tell you where they live it is deep woods behind their house this guy's out in his garage and he hears this he goes in gets they get a gun his wife comes out and hears it she starts screaming you know call 9-1-1

but they didn't, they called me. - What do y'all think? Any thoughts? - I mean, we've heard a lot of those things over the years. Bigfoot allegedly mimics sounds, a lot of times sounds like screams, women's screams. Could be a cat or a cryptid, some kind of weird creature.

But yeah, it's hard to say because there's so many strange noises. But there is these incredible screams that people will send us that sounds like something huge is screaming like a woman out in the middle of nowhere.

It just is so loud and the vibration is so deep. It's not like a smaller animal. It's something big. Well, this was quite a distance away. The little noises you hear is him in the garage. They said when he heard it, it sounded a long ways away. So you're just picking that up on their security camera. Yeah. It's tough because they're probably not a prime audio collecting device if it was on a security camera.

I'm trying to separate the fact that Cy has talked our ears off about Black Panthers for the last day. Well, that's where I thought this would go. Because if Cy ever gets a hold of this, this is the smoking. Proof positive, boys. Boys, I told you. Now look. So I've heard mountain lions. I grew up in Northern California. I told Cy this as a kid. And it does sound like a woman screaming. That one's tough. It's a little different than...

than what I heard from a mountain lion. There were mountain lions there, like where my grandparents lived when I was a kid. They lived way up in the forest, Northern California. And it would sound like a woman screaming. I heard this as a kid. It was terrifying. We'd be trying to sleep and you'd hear this sounds like a woman screaming outside. And there was a big cat, which is...

equally as terrifying. Which is weird to me because every time I've heard what I thought was a woman screaming when I investigated, it was a woman screaming. The good news is we will have thousands of people that will listen to this. So make sure you comment in the YouTube. I want to hear the collective. I mean, that's unedited. There's no, oh, the guy sent me that last night and he said, explain this. I think I put, it's probably a bobcat and a coon fighting over a dead garb.

but I was kidding. That's a specific answer, Jason. You figured it out. Case closed. Case closed. I mean, that sounds good to me. I don't know. Well, I mean, you wouldn't, you would be surprised at how many times you bring on somebody to talk about something else and they have a, they have a story like this and they have a crazy story. You know, doctors, uh,

military, all these people. They'll be on to tell a story about something specific and then we'll open it up with like, hey, what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? And they have a Bigfoot experience. I mean, all kinds of people have one. And so when you give people permission to actually talk about the paranormal and the experiences they've had and there's no judgment, there's no reservation, people will tell you things they've experienced. And I think around the world people have no problem doing that, but here in the West, a lot of people do not want to talk about their weird experiences because

Either they haven't thought about it and how it relates to their faith or they just think people are gonna think they're nuts and so they don't talk about it. But on our show we want them to talk about it so it's like we're trying to get more of that out of that person. And it's not uncommon to have something like that. And that's, I think that's pretty tame compared to the stuff we hear which is banana stuff. People being abducted by UFOs is probably the weirdest stuff that we, we talk to those people and

And that's really hard to, in the moment, make room for what the story is being told to you. So you kind of have to expand your paradigm in the interview of like, okay, if this is happening, let's just continue to ask questions. And this person's terrified or they have some kind of trauma related to this experience. And so you can't just be like,

cracking jokes and making fun of it's it's hard for them to express what they're what they've experienced we just make fun of each other in the middle of that stuff okay that way to really do it but it's heavy you know it's it's something we set out to try to to try to investigate that stuff and then we got thrown into the deep end of of people who needed up like a safe place to express their experiences and so it got heavy quick and we were like what

what is going on here? There's not a lot of avenues for people to express. - Well that's only really half our show. The other half, if we're getting back to it, is like we try to do highbrow discussions. So we try to have theologians and doctors and authors and people that have created content and spent their 10,000 hours on a particular subject. However weird that may be, we try to at least create this sort of academic highbrow standard so that we have real discussions that

Yeah, you try to learn something. Feel credentialed, right? Because everyone, there are so many stories. People have the weirdest experiences as humans do in general, right? This is like as a kid growing up, Coast to Coast Radio. I remember listening to it at night with my folks, driving home from my grandma's house after Christmas or wherever because my grandma lived about three and a half hours from where we lived. Bigfoot country. My parents would be keeping themselves awake listening to Coast to Coast Radio. I remember falling asleep as a kid to that and loving those kind of stories. I think what we're trying to do is take that

and provide an academic research context to that as much as you can. - And biblical paradigm. - Along with that. - I think that's why the Heiser book was so interesting when I finally picked it up because we had talked about it and then I got invited to a Bible study, an online Bible study called The Unseen Realm. I was like, that's weird. And then I later found out they were going through the book

Then I met with Lagos software guys, and they were like, Heiser was somehow involved. He was like their in-house theologian for a while, or more or less their in-house doctor for a long time. Yeah, their CEO came and met with me in Black Mountain, and he was like, you need to read Heiser. And then two other people told me this, and I was like, then someone sent me the book right before the last trip. And then you're like, okay, maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to read this. I read it.

And what I found to be very profound about it is that he talks in there about the, I think he calls it the Deuteronomy 32 worldview of interpreting the Bible through more of an understanding of this. If you were reading this as a first century Jewish, or even going back to read it as in the worldview in which it was written, how would not from a Cartesian framework, you know, how would we read a lot of this? And

And it was very eye-opening for me, but the interesting part about it was that the entire book, which, Jace, you've got to read it. I told Jace you need to read this book because everything we've been teaching on this podcast, just kind of the eschatological flow of the whole kingdom in the last two chapters of the book, I think, are kingdom-like.

Not Yet Now, which is the title of the podcast I started, by the way, called Not Yet Now. But that's where it ends. So it's kind of this story of the kingdom of God coming to earth, but it's this whole picture of it through the whole lens of this new framework that I haven't really...

had access to before. And so you have things like the Nephilim that you mentioned in Genesis chapter six, which I knew the story we've talked about it almost as like a, it was for, for me, it's always been kind of like, Oh, it's just one of those weird things, but not really a lot of deep theological significance. But then he ties that into the tower of Babel, which is they, they had to make a name for themselves, which is the same Hebrew word used for men of renown in Genesis six. So his point was the Nephilim came back.

and they created more Nephilim, or the sons of God came back and entered to the women, and they created more Nephilim, which is the Tower of Babel, and that's when the nations were created. We talk a whole lot on this podcast about God wants to bring the nations up the mountain to worship Him. The nations were created in Genesis chapter 11, fast forward to Pentecost, and now the nations are coming back together, and instead of confusing their language, which is what God did in Genesis 11, now He's, Acts 2, He's

allowing them to hear each other in their own native tongue, what's he doing? He's bringing back the kingdom. He's bringing the kingdom of God. He's reversing. Yes, you see it. Then you get to the end of the Bible. You get to Revelation, and you see this new city coming, and you see that he's looking around. Where's the temple? There's no temple. Oh, I see that the Lamb is the temple of God, and God now makes his home in humans. So I thought his work was extremely important.

important. And I'm still kind of diving into some of the stuff, but I think opening ourselves up to the different paradigm, Nate, that you mentioned is important. I want to talk about risk levels and ask yourself this question. Is your risk level high enough that an IRS agent could show up at your house demanding you pay your taxes or even worse, the IRS is about to freeze your bank account? It's never fun to have issues with the IRS. You may have a high risk

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Well, didn't they say they were giants? Yeah. That's in Genesis 6. That would be the offspring, you know. When I saw, the only time I thought about it seriously is when I first saw Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah. It's a Nephilim. It's a Nephilim. Yeah. Nephilim. But I also used to call people Nimrods, and they took offense. Is that what you said?

It was in Genesis 10, but I was being complimentary. I'm like, you need to read your Bible because people call people Nimrods. But you weren't being complimentary when you called them a Nimrod. Yeah, that's not a problem. It says, look, I'm going to read this, 10.8. Cush was the father of Nimrod who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. That is why it said, like Nimrod...

a mighty hunter before the Lord. That's what it says. Why did we let our culture? Would you take Nimrod as a compliment if somebody called you Nimrod? No, no, especially how he turned out.

- And it just sounds bad, a Nimrod. Who wants to be a Nimrod? - I mean, a mighty warrior, if you mean you're a mighty hunter. - Yeah, just call him a mighty warrior. You throw a Nimrod in. - Well, the problem is some of these words are different, obviously, like mighty men, mighty warrior, men of renown. - Yeah, you got it. - That's true. - Depending on what translation you're reading, it can really change a lot of the interpretation. And so when we talk about the Nephilim, we've looked at it kind of like data scientists. We've looked at that topic every way we can.

So if there's any proof or any story about the giants, where they were, what they were doing, we've talked about it on the show, everything from language to we've had military guys who've been in Afghanistan with thermals and still see these things today. And so we've explored that topic in depth, and there are a lot of Christians who just don't understand. Like Heiser would say, there's three main reasons why

why everything is so corrupt in the Old Testament. And most Christians only know one. We only know the Garden of Eden story. - Satan, yeah. - We don't understand the Tower of Babel and we don't understand Genesis six. We don't understand that creation was corrupted and then they were trying to build this ziggurat, this pyramid, this portal, this gateway to heaven and have a war. And so you have these three major problems in the Old Testament and Jesus comes and puts all three back together. - Yeah, well that's good. - Somebody said there, somebody recently told me that there, if you Google

map search Tower of Babel that there's a site that shows up that they've been like

four or five different, like Alexander the Great, all these people trying to accomplish world dominance have all tried to build on this one site. And it never, it's an interesting story, but when you mentioned Genesis 6, and you had mentioned earlier too about Goliath. I'm reading Heiser's book, and part of the book he talks about how when Moses went to the promised land, God's like, go take it. It's yours. And they go up and they look,

into the promised land and they come back like we can't take it they're too big there's a bunch of giants in there we're like grasshoppers yeah cedars of lebanon which is like 40 feet from tennessee is lebanon but the more y'all talk the more i do realize it is familiar with people they don't really share it we had uh chad what was chad it was chad and chad chad robichaux and chad right right chad right we're like you know how'd you come to the lord

He said, well, there I was in this old warehouse. I think it was in Germany. Yeah, this is a Navy SEAL. Navy SEAL. It's got some drone Georgia. Yeah, it was North Africa. He was in North Africa somewhere beating up warehouse or whatever, and they started hearing things and seeing that. You'll have to go back and listen to the podcast to get the details. But he was like, man, and he's like, I wasn't in a good place with the Lord.

But I think he said his brother was. Yeah. So he called his brother's pastor called him. Yeah. Well, he said, I'm here with four Navy SEALs and we have an enemy that we don't have the weapons for. And he he goes through all the details. He says he felt the presence of evil like it was a palatable presence that he that they all recognize for Navy SEALs who don't fear anything. And they're and they're crippled by fear.

They're totally armed, but they know what they're facing. Their guns will do no good. They're multimillion dollar killing machines. And look, so we asked him how he came to the Lord, and he started with this story, and I was like, where is this going? I was really nervous that day, but he was like, he called the only believer he knew, which was his brother, who called the pastor, and the pastor was like,

put me on speakerphone and walked through that place, and they were like, in the name of Jesus, and this guy preached. They're anointing with oil all around this place. Oh, yeah. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, they did this, and look, he's like, so here I am.

this was unexplainable because they never felt the presence there again. And he's like, maybe I should look into the one who wrote this Bible. And he started reading the Bible for the first time and he eventually came to the Lord. That was his story. Yeah. And I thought, okay, wow. And just getting to know him, I thought,

he just didn't seem like he was making this up. And so I thought that, but I also thought something else I wanted to share about how prevalent these stories are. Cause you got, I mean, we make fun of Cy and the Black Panthers, but I have realized during this process that,

That I'm outnumbered because I don't believe there are Black Panthers roaming around in the woods like Phil does. In Louisiana. No, that Cy does in Louisiana. But I'm outnumbered because we did a show on Duck Family Treasure because they were like, Cy really believes that? I was like, oh, yeah. Sit down and talk to him. Well, the more they listen, they're like, we...

He's so adamant about it. It's close. So she said, well, wouldn't it, the producer told me, wouldn't it be cool if we had people that would kind of take up his side? And I was like, hey, there's more people in this area that believe this than do not. And I said, I'll prove it to you.

Go on a social media page and just ask them to show up. Tell them Uncle Si, because they all know who Si is in this area. And she's like, they're not going to show up. I was like, oh yeah, they're going to show up. An hour later, when I pulled in, they not only showed up, they had signs. I believe there were t-shirts. It was an epidemic. And they started interviewing these people all day. And they actually ran that in the episode.

We didn't go get them. They showed up and was looking at you into the camera saying, hey, there I was in the backyard. And it was all these stories that wasted a whole day of filming, in my opinion. But it was...

It was funny and I thought they really believe this. Maybe there's one. Well, I think this, I mean, we just learned as a country, I think this last election was that. I think every, you had every single narrative saying this is impossible, this person is this, and everyone did the opposite. Well, that's true. And I feel like

People can't deny their own experiences. And when they look someone in the eye and they tell them their story and you don't, and you get no warning this person's making this up or lying, you have to make room for those things. And I mean, our faith is really based a lot on eyewitness, right? Those who saw Christ ascend and those who saw him crucified. I mean, they wrote the stories down and we didn't see that personally, but...

Our faith is based a lot on eyewitnesses. And so when you have all these credible people constantly telling you the same exact story, you have to make either they're nuts or they're telling me the truth. And what are the chances of thousands of people all describing the same exact creature just happen to be lying about it? And at this point in history, when Bigfoot sightings have been going on since the 60s, and that's when they filmed that famous one,

It doesn't really move the meter in terms of popularity if you come out and say, I saw a Bigfoot. It's like, yeah, okay, cool, whatever. But they're adamant about it. And they'll go to their grave saying they saw this thing. And it does, like you were saying with your friend, the Navy SEAL, is like when you have a supernatural experience, you start to realize life is serious. Oh, right.

This is serious. We are in a paranormal story. We are in a strange story. This is a creation. We're here to do something. We're here to learn something. We're in the middle of a battle between heaven and hell. We're not the main character. We're here. And we don't often know what are we doing? And then you start to...

have these experiences and you're like, okay, I gotta, like there is evil and it's trying to kill me and I gotta do something about it. And I think those paranormal experiences, we've gotten dozens and dozens, hundreds of emails from people like, I've been in church my whole life and now I finally understand how serious this is. And it's like, I think talking about the weird and the strange and the supernatural really wakes people up and they have just a conversion right there on the spot.

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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Go back to what you said. I thought you were going to an interesting place earlier. You said that Heiser talked about the three different evils, and one we all get, the fall. Yeah. I thought it was interesting, the role that the Nephilim play, at least in Heiser's work and how he presents it. And by the way, his work is academic. It's very academic. Oh, it's all peer-reviewed. Mike would famously say that

that he had no new ideas. He just compiled them, right? His story is really fascinating. I mean, he goes all the way through a seminary, gets his PhD in ancient Semitic languages and the Old Testament, and then has this seminal experience where one of his colleagues says, have you read Psalm 82 recently? He says, yeah, he read it in Hebrew. I don't know, goes back and reads it and realizes like, oh my gosh, like this connects to Deuteronomy 32 to Genesis 6. These are all

The Hebrews all the same. What does this mean? And that's the whole divine council. Yeah. For people who don't know, it's like a court scene in heaven and there are characters and God's there. And,

you kind of have to expand your understanding of, okay, there's other players in this story, but it's hard to know what Durante 32 and Simon. - Yeah, but it is connected, and going back to the point I was-- - Well, Gen 6, right, that's what we were talking about. So the idea of the Gen 6 comes out of Genesis 3, which is the first prophecy, and it's God prophesying, saying that the,

seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent he's it's the prophecy of christ right and what you happen to have happen downstream is genesis 6 which is an angelic rebellion at mount mount herman and mike has a book called reversing herman which is fascinating about reversing babel it's the same idea but you have angels fallen angels taking wives and creating nephilim what's called a seed war so they are in a lot of ways they're trying to breed out humanity

- For the idea then if you cannot, if you have no more humans, the seed of the woman cannot defeat the head, crush that serpent, can't beat the dragon, right? So you have the seed war that comes downstream as well. And then it makes the flood make a lot more sense.

And that's where the giants come from. Oh, and the extermination of the Canaanites. So that's the other thing, right? Progressive Christianity has a really hard time with the conquest of Joshua, right? Well, all the violence in particular. It's the number one objection that you're going to get from an atheist on God sanctions genocide. Yeah. And you serve that God. He's not a good God. And I think that's the problem is you mentioned it. Like Moses, they have the spies. And Joshua and Caleb are the only ones to say that we can beat them.

but there's giants here, right? So when you start to take the idea that, okay, this is all part of this seed war and you have giant tribes, so these are hybrids, these are not human, but this is what the language says. This is not just me just being crazy. This is what it says. Then God wiping these abominations out, this attempt by the darkness to,

to destroy humanity is really his-- - Yeah, these are technically hybrids, right? They're not, they're kind of half human. And then even Genesis 6 says the men of renown. I think this is where Greek mythology gets all-- - That was my next question, is that where that comes from? 'Cause I'm sitting here thinking Greek mythology, even the Romans picked it up. - Demigods. - Yeah, exactly. They had godlike qualities. - Pantheon, this also begins with the Canaanites, so you have--

who is a storm god, and you have Zeus who is a storm god. It continues, you have this Thor in Norse mythology, but you have this Satan character. And a lot of people in the space, a lot of researchers will claim that it's just Satan wearing a different mask. The new empire, the empire that dominates, the chief god of that empire,

is the deceiver. He just wears different masks, whether it be Baal or Zeus or

Whatever is chaotic. He seems to love. And what's interesting is when Moses went to the promised land and they see these giants, they retreat, and God's like, okay, when they go another 40 years in the wilderness, then Joshua, taking up the mantle of Moses, goes back in, and he actually does exactly what God commands, and he does exterminate and kill them all. But they left them. Yeah. And the ones they left became a thorn in the side of the Israelites for the rest of...

Well, and they didn't kill them all either in the sense that they didn't go into a certain area. They didn't go into the area of what would be known later as the Philistines. Right. And guess what happens with that? And then you have Goliath. Goliath and his mercenary brothers. It's kind of like the picture. And there's evidence of those things all over the world because there's proof that they weren't all exterminated because they were building the same structures all over the world. I mean, there's pyramids and things like that.

built everywhere and you have evidence that they were doing something in their ancient religions and they were practicing them. How did all these different nations have the same sort of corrupt religions?

without knowing each other. I think they all started from the Holy Land. Every civilization has folklore and stories about giants too. This really all can't be coincidental. But I think that's a hard thing. We're sitting here in 21st century, we're in Louisiana right now and we're 21st century Americans and the idea of a giant, a 10 foot, 8 foot, 9 foot, 10 foot,

giant, it seems fantastical. But that's what I think the podcast does is so we spend a lot of time trying to prove that the Bible is true. It's a very quick glimpse into this story. And you would think that if we were writing about something today that we all knew about, whether it's an iPhone or a text message, and we're writing scripture, we're not going to spend

You know, 2,000 years, we're not thinking someone's going to read, what's a text message? And, you know, and they just drop these terms like Nephilim and they keep going because everyone knows what that is. And so you have a lot of skeptical people who read their Bibles and they go, oh, that's just talking about another race of humans, the sons of Seth. And they come up with all these wacky theories to just explain away this supernatural aspect of the sons of God and marry the daughters of men. It's two distinct different characters.

And so what we'll do is like, we took people to Peru. We looked at the ancient walls in Peru, the elongated skulls. I mean, you, they still have physical evidence to suggest that there was a different race of humanoid on planet earth. And in places like Peru where it's not controlled by academia, you can actually still see these big, big skulls and the weird, uh,

anomalies that they have. They're not human. And people are like, oh, that's crazy. You're wild. But what Luke and I feel is that you have these huge shows like Ancient Aliens and you got Rogan talking about the Anunnaki on his show. And people know that history has been sanitized. And so they're coming up with wild, weird, ancient alien theories. And they're not plugging in the biblical part. So they're being led from the faith because the church won't talk about it.

So we're like, and let's go right into it. Let's talk about it. It's a lot better because most time when someone asked me these questions, I'll say, I have no idea. Yeah. But you know, I'm glad there are some guys cause y'all been studying as ZZ Sop said, you've been studying the parts in between. Yeah. Yeah.

What I love most about what you said very early, we started this discussion, is that it's not just about us. And there's a curiosity to hear and to know and to think. And so a guy like me, so I'm 60 years old.

I grew up, Star Trek was my favorite show as a kid because of the possibilities, right? To go out there and to see and there's more. It was very humanistic in its nature just because Roddenberry was, but the idea was that there may be something more.

So then when I became a young adult, it was X-Files. It was my favorite show. It's still one of my top 10 shows. Based on real cases, by the way. Oh, yeah, exactly. And so I was so intrigued because it just took my childhood into that next narrative. So then I'm a pastor and I have people coming to me all the time and say, well, what about A-Lens? I mean, is that even possible? Because it's easier just to say, no, none of that stuff. We know everything.

And it's all right here in the Bible, as if we know everything here, trying to study it. And so I always say, look, I mean, God's so big.

And there's other realm we know is there and there's interaction that's gone back and forth. It's in the Bible. So anything is possible. Let's just, let's just throw it out there that God does some things. We can't explain everything, but we shouldn't quit talking about her to being curious. And that's what I love about you guys. You see it in practical life though. I've studied with a few like people who have said, I'm going to follow Satan and they've given themselves to that world and

Which at first, when I was younger, I was skeptical. But what I noticed in studying with a few of those people is that whether they thought that was real or not, the consequences of that said decision with me trying to help them was real. And there was nothing good about their life whatsoever. And unfortunately, some of those people that I studied with ended up taking their own life. And

And it wasn't because I wasn't trying to help them in every way possible. There was one particular girl who was young in the youth group, and I just made it my ambition because she wore weird stuff, you know, and she was identifying herself as an occult, demonic woman.

And I just thought, I was thinking not on this watch. And the further I got down into it, turned out she had been abused as a kid. And we just befriended her, me and my wife, and really tried to help her. But the consequences of seeing the crazy things that she would come up with, which I started believing after a while, because I thought, well, you've opened yourself up to something that's really dark.

And without getting into all the details, it just made me kind of rethink, you know, the reality of this when you see the results of it. Well, I think that what could be dangerous about it, though, is if you approach the topic as a novelty. I actually think that's not helpful. What for me, what at least Heiser's work, and I just read the book, so I typically am processing real time with you guys here, but...

I think it has to be connected to the grand story. And I think it is. I think that the conversation, I think he, I'm not saying I agree with him on everything. I just started reading him. But I do think that when I read how he even like,

how he, there's so much in the Old Testament that we read through and we just take for granted. Like there's a lot of instances in the Old Testament, for example, where God will speak about himself in both the first and the third person. Well, how do you make sense of that? You know what I mean? And I never really dove into that. I've just kind of like, well, and I maybe had like a very weak

response to that. But I think when you start to understand this concept of Elohim's versus Yahweh, two different things, you know what I mean? Like it starts to make sense in the divine counsel. And when Jesus prays, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And you start to see it there. There's a much, there's an orchestrated effort on both the part of God to accomplish what God's going to accomplish. And by the way, he in the end wins and

But there's also an orchestrated effort by the evil realm that is seeking to destroy what God's trying to accomplish. And I think it's a lot more comforting to not believe that. But we need to take the demonic realm serious. Yeah, it was one of the pillars of his ministry, but we just never talk about it. I mean, it's like, oh, he healed the sick. He broke down racial barriers.

He took up for those steeped in sin, you know, to show his grace. Oh, and he cast out demons. But, you know, man, I was like, that hog story going on the bank, that kind of got my attention. There's that passage in Mark, I can't remember where he, first time he goes into Gentile territory and he cast out the demons. At the demoniac at the tombs, right? Yeah. Wow, son of man, why are you here before your appointed time? Yeah, and you read that. Oh, we just gloss over that part of that question of it. That's a big question.

How did that demon know that? And what is Jesus doing there? And what is a demon? What is a demon? Where did it come from? But that's why I told you the story about the people who give themselves to that because he was hurting himself and he was showing weird power. And you get into these people's lives and you see similar things and you're like, maybe there's something to this.

But it's not just in that moment. It's not just Jesus saying, I'm going to go prove that I am who I say I am. Let me pick out some random places to go do miracles and cast out demons. It's all part of the grand story. There's a reason why he's in that place and that territory. And what I love about us revisiting the Jesus and his movements from this lens in the last almost five years now of our journey is realizing how intentional Jesus

Christ's movements were. It's not random. He didn't... None of them were random. When they go to...

when he takes them to the gates of hell, right, and has a speech. That isn't like we're just gonna take a little 10 minute walk this way from Nazareth. It is like far, like wear out your sandals, walk. It was intentional. And that happens to be at the base of Mount Hermon, which is where, according to-- - Mount Hermon, yeah. - Where the angels ascended in Genesis six. And so the cosmic, as we say in our show, significance, the cosmic geography of what he was doing, so intentional. As he steps out of, into Gentile territory,

I think that just, it's like this 3D view of the gospel and realizing that Christ is undoing so much that the darkness has done. And his intentionality of his movements, locations, the things he does, he's playing 4D chess. - And you guys are movie makers, storytellers, and you're trying to tell this whole story of, you know,

you understand that when you plug in the characters of any film, any story, you go back to the beginning. It's like why Star Wars was never really over. It started somewhere and then we kind of hop into this story that's been going on for a while. And I think a lot of times a church story

kind of sticks around the crucifixion and they kind of just stay there forever. Yeah. And they never go all the way back. Why did the world get flooded again? Then you get to your twenties and you start asking harder questions to your pastor or your dad or whatever. And you're like, I don't want to be a Christian anymore because I don't understand why a loving God would flood the world. But when you go back and like, let's go to the beginning of the movie, let's go back to the beginning. So we watch,

15 minutes in there somewhere and we come up with wild conclusions and then I think it does a disservice to our faith in the long run. You got whole groups that are saying you don't really need to even study the Old Testament. Yeah, exactly. I mean, why do we need that? Yeah. We'll just pick it up where Jesus comes in and think about how you miss the whole, you know, origin of the story. And I've said this a lot that

You talk about something like human sexuality as God designed it, and you have someone that comes in from this worldview. They come up here. They ask the question.

You give them the answer from the Bible. They bring it back over here and interpret it. And like, man, this sounds ridiculous. Well, yeah, because you interpret it in a different worldview than you have to understand it in the context of what, like who is God? What is, you know, who is man? And I think this is what it does to have the grand story of this, that all these things that Jesus's ministry was not an accident. It's almost like an overlay, right?

of the Old Testament story. I mean, you got the whole Exodus, you got the Redeemer. I mean, it's a perfect, seamless story. And he's doing so many things we don't know what he's doing. We don't understand what he's doing. And I think it's like a 4D war that he's playing. And we see the 3D. We see what's going on. We see our sin, and we see the things that we do wrong. We don't understand what else he's doing in that fourth dimension, that spiritual realm of there was...

There were laws that were broken and there were curses that were put on humanity. And he's undoing those. And we're just thinking, oh, we're the center of this story. Look at us. And we have no humility when we read it. No, that's good. That's so good. Well, man, that went fast. Yeah, sorry. We're out of time. This was way better than I was anticipating.

All right. I'll drop you. I know it was a low bar, Jace. It's a low bar, but I think you should make an amendment because it's blurred at first, but then it becomes clear. You know, the name of our show is actually from a joke. The whole thing is from a Mitch Hedberg joke where he basically says, I'll paraphrase it, but he just talks about how all the pictures of Bigfoot are blurry.

This is even more terrifying than it would be the idea there was actually a blurry creature running around like so. A large out-of-focus monster. There was a lot of blurry things running around in the 60s. It is true. I'm sure if it was the creature or the eye. Tell our audience, because you mentioned about podcasts being a perfect place to talk about it. It's also a perfect place to share ideas on other podcasts. And I know some of our listeners are going to want to know more. So how do they find you guys? Yeah.

BlurryCreatures.com or just check out Blurry Creatures on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and our YouTube's starting to pump. We just moved to a full video show so you can check us out there on YouTube. I had so much more I wanted to ask you. I didn't even get to the drone. I wanted to ask you about the drone. We'll have to do that. We'll have to have you back. You guys can be our resident guests. That episode we did with the Chads, we asked them about the drones. That did

really well. Yeah, it was. We're getting the weirdest stuff sent to us. The last thing I'll say is like every day people are sending us the most bizarre things. And I wonder if it's related to when Jesus talks about the days of Noah in the New Testament, like signs and wonders from heaven and weird monsters and things. So check out that verse. I don't know. We've now set up the next appearance by the Blurry Guys. Thanks for having us. Next time. Next time. Appreciate you guys. Thank you guys for coming. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast.

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