Ep 1052 | Willie Begs for Jase’s Help for the First Time & Jase Lets a Group of Heathens Have It
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. It's, uh, Zach, you don't know this because you're in Black Mountain. Jason and I are here at the, uh, the epicenter of Duck Commander Headquarters and we're going

For the first time that I know of, and Maddie can correct me if I'm wrong, there is a double recording, simultaneous recording going on of Unashamed, and right on the other side of that wall is the Duck Call Room, and they were recording as well today. Because I went by, they still hadn't started, and...

So they were like, is there any way we could sync up together? I said, no, let's don't cross these universes because we need our lane. You need your lane. I do think for sound purposes, if you think you hear in the background...

some kind of supernatural force or just a cry, a distress call. If it sounds like supernatural nonsense, then it's probably just... I call it the caterwaul effect is what I call it. Kasai seems to be on one. Oh, he was in rare form. I tell you what, you come over here, boys, if you want to laugh today. Well, he actually taught the... What do they call it? Oh, that's right.

The field class? The field class. The Bible study that Jersey Joe leads, yeah. I did it the first month there. I did it the first month. You did the second. I did the second. Okay. And it was crickets when I did it. But we did have some people respond. But there was a couple responded yesterday, came to the Lord and married Kepp. Awesome. So that was good. And so I asked them about the class. I was like, well, how did Cy do? And you know what their response was? It wasn't boring. Yeah.

Yeah.

Look, I need to have a meeting with the elders of your church if they're going to use the unashamed. Is it the brand of our podcast? No, it's the Bible brand, Zach. Al is an elder. You just had a meeting with the elders. You just had a meeting, and I just said, we're good. We're good. Are you vetting all these teachers? You got Jersey Joe. You got Cy. I mean, who else we got coming up? I have no affiliation whatsoever, but that's by design because that way when they ask me to preach –

I have no problem in whatever I'm fixed to say. Zach, you're going to be doing one of them. Next time you're down here on our first Sunday, you're going to be doing one. You got to remember. I'm coming down there soon. I know. I heard that. You're doing a retreat or something. Well, they probably won't let you preach because you can't preach under 40 minutes. How long are your sermons there? I mean, I go about 30, 35. 30 to 40 minutes, yeah. Yeah. But now look.

I just did an event where I went 20 minutes. 20 minutes? Oh, it was a...

Here's what happened. I can't clear my throat in 20 minutes. I got to navigate this story carefully because I don't want to offend anybody. He's the best kind right here. And I'm going to break the rule because Missy's like, don't tell people about events. However, when I told her about this event, she's like, you need to tell that on the podcast. So she... Here's what happened. She may be setting you up, Jace. I don't know. I'm just saying. So here's what happened. She didn't listen. She don't care.

Well, she heard this story, and she was on the edge of her seat, so I'll give you an edge-of-the-seat story. Here's what happened. This is interesting. So my brother Willie called me one night and said, Hey, bro, in your—

My relationship with Willie, has he ever started a conversation with, hey, bro? No, never. Me either. Usually it's just like dad's conversation. It's just mid-sentence. When you said that, I was like, that doesn't sound like a Willie line. What that means to me is he's about to ask you to do something. That is exactly what I concluded. So for the first time in my life, I was speechless because I thought...

We should have noted that. That may be the first time it's ever happened. What does he fix to say? Hey, bro, I had my team. He started talking about his team because we all have teams. Is there a Team Willie now? There's a Team Willie has done something kind of crazy. I've got two events scheduled for the same time. Uh-oh.

And, uh, one of them is in Texas and, uh, it's, it's a thing that, you know, I agreed to do. Uh, they, uh, you know, they, they kind of highlight the outdoors and getting kids out in the outdoors. And so it's a good event, but, uh, he said the other event involves me telling my wife, Corey, that I would go to England. And so I, so you see the problem and I'm like, yeah, well,

Yeah, you can't be at two places at one time. He said, exactly. But he's talking real. He's talking real unwillingly. And this event out in Texas, they've really done a lot of advertising, and it's a week away here. And what you got going on?

That's kind of how it went. So Willie is a week out, and he's just now saying, we've got to do something about this. It sounds like Team Willie's a little slow on the draws. Well, Willie don't typically sweat. I would love to have seen that a little bit. Well, he blamed the team, and what I told him was, I said, you know, Willie, when the team does not perform, you know what they do in the real world? They fire the coach. That's right. Exactly.

He was just quiet because I had him over a barrel there. And so I agreed to do it because even though I had an event last weekend and this weekend, I don't normally schedule one in between. So I'm like, well, here we go. You sound like Al now. On my day off, let me go run out here to Texas and do this. And I know you listening, there's a lot to do.

Getting your team now, getting everything lined out. And look, I'm not Willie. And so they kept saying, well, Willie said. Well, I was like, Willie's gone. If you want me. Whatever you negotiated prior to this. It's a total reorganization. Team J is a completely different entity, I guess. So anyway, so we settle. I go out there and –

I thought it was just kind of a private, because I saw the word private in the notes. I thought it was just a little, the group, the board or whatever who does this. Because let's face it, none of us really know what Willie does. I know he's on the road a lot, but I have no idea. Well, and he didn't either. He didn't know a whole lot about this. So anyway, when I got my...

We had a little pre-meeting for it. We went out there, but it was at this huge arena. And I thought, why are they having this at a huge arena if there's only going to be a few people here? I don't know why I thought there was only going to be a few people. I'm not sure where I got that, but it was a misunderstanding. Just because it says private doesn't mean small. Exactly. I think that's where I'm at. I got you. I got you. So when I got my Bible out and my duck calls, he was saying, here's what's going to happen. We're going to go out there.

And we have a video from Willie that's basically saying, you know, sorry, I can't. I'm in London. I was like, I doubt he's going to say he's sorry. Yeah.

I was like, he's probably just going to say, hey, I sent my, you know, sent my one of my lackeys to fill in because I'm across the pond, which I was right. There were no apologies. No, no, no. He said, I sent my number two. Well, actually my number three. He said, size ahead of Jace. Which is a good line. And yeah, he did a little video and he said, after that, we'll introduce you. Get up. And he's like, no, you got 20 minutes because this is a fundraiser and it's an auction.

And we're going to raise, you know, tons of money. And so don't take up our time. I mean, that was kind of what he said. Well, when I got my Bible out and he's like, now, I don't know if you know, there's been an open bar for two hours. He saw that Bible and he started talking about open bar.

And I thought, why is he feeling like... So then I kind of figured it out. They're doing a project that I like. I mean, you're celebrating the outdoors. You're getting kids to experience nature. And I think they help trouble kids and get them out in the outdoors and do hikes and whatever. So I was like, okay. And I saw why they asked us because, I mean, my whole conversion was...

I saw my parents come to the Lord, which this was part of my speech. And my dad, in an effort to become a better father and husband, he starts taking us hunting. And so the creation led me to the creator. So I said that to him.

Because when he saw my Bible, I felt like there was a little anxiety. And I didn't know why until I walked out into the arena. Then I went, oh, I get it. So I told him, I said, well, you got to remember, I love the creation. I said, but it led me to the creator. I said, I think I need to share that.

He just looked at me. No comment. So he's nervous. I was making him nervous. I was making him real nervous. So when I walked out there, it was just, there was 1500 people and it was all these booths and, uh, it was like a city. And to say that it was a distraction is an understatement. Spring is in the air. It's time to get back outside and transform your yard. And our, our sponsor is back.

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Now's the perfect time to plant. Use unashamed to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. There was so much going on with all these booths. And the first thing I noticed was a large group of women who were the hosts, which they had different sections. And I thought, I mean, I immediately looked away because my assistant was there. And she said, don't look back. Because I thought, wow, wow.

They're scantily dressed, and then there's this. We call that the notice and dismiss. You can't help but notice, but then you dismiss. So I literally, Jeremiah style, wasn't it Jeremiah that said, I made a covenant with my eyes? That's Job. Job, yeah. Job 31. Job 31. So I made a covenant since I was the speaker and fixed to talk about the Bible. I said, I am looking from the neck up the rest of the night.

And think about it. Joe made that statement. All he could see was their eyes and their ankles. You were seeing a lot more. So I thought, here we go. Open bar, scantily clad women. They're raising money. What am I fixed to say? And I got 20 minutes. So we watched the video. Look, when I got up, no one, there was not quiet. You know how usually when you get up. Right. It was a buzz. Still a buzz. People moving, boosts. It was crazy.

So I made a few jokes about Willie's video. No one laughed. Zero. And I felt like that I was just a part of something going on. Of the noise. Yeah. And I thought, you're talking about tough crap. Very intimidating. I told Mizzy at 35, I would not have, I'd have been nervous. But at 55? 55, I made a couple jokes. That didn't work, so I...

I just reached over and grabbed my Bible. There we go. I said, well, I brought my Bible. I kid you not. It became as quiet as a church mouse in three seconds. Just, and I thought, no. I gave a withering seven or eight minutes out of love. I spoke the truth about my family, our relationship with the Lord, the Bible,

the purpose of life, the questions that humans have. And I kind of wove that through our journey

And so now I had their attention. And then I kind of went to the Duck Dynasty angle, which is why they even called us because people watched. And I was like, and I explained that. I was like, that was God's project. And he used us as a platform to now share what we're really about, which we're disciples of Jesus. And then I went through the top qualities of why we follow Jesus.

He's innocent. He invites everyone. He's indestructible. There's a way to, you know, experience the actual creation forever. You know, I told the fishing story in John 20. Here's Jesus. He was dead, and now he's fishing in the outdoors. We're eating fish on the bank. But this guy was dead, and now he's alive.

So as soon as I said, I looked down because I had my phone, but they said 20 minutes. As soon as it hit 20 minutes, I was at the end. And I was like, thanks for having me. About 30 people right in front of me jumped up, standing up. And I literally thought, wow.

I know those people are following Jesus. And then it was a one minute because it just, people started getting up, but I'm being honest. I think it was more about, oh, are we standing up and clapping? You know what I mean? Something just happened. It was a one minute slow developing standing up.

And I said, well, my dad will appreciate that because when I go back and see him, remember when he used to always say, did they give you a standing O? Yep. And so then I auctioned off because Willie sent, I called it a guilt offering, which now they were familiar with the Bible. They knew what that meant. They sent a little display, the little wooden box with the four duck calls on it. Yeah. That thing went for 15 grand. Ooh.

And the guy who got it, they got a picture with me, him and his wife, with the duck calls. But when he come up on stage, he just burst into tears. And his wife, and I could tell he had had a few adult beverages. She said, why are you crying, honey? And he said, I don't know. And I thought, oh, I know. Been convicted by the Holy Spirit, but I didn't say that. But we took a picture.

And then when I stepped down, you know, they had the hostess women flanking the stage while I was speaking. But let me just think about distractions.

You're going to look at this bearded guy. Are you going to look at the... So the message was coming here, but there was distraction. They were there. I saw them out of my periphery. But the one on the very end said, excuse me, sir. Of course, I've already made the covenant. So I looked her right in the eyes. And she said, that was the most beautiful message I have ever heard. I said, well, it was from the Lord. And I kept walking. But I just thought, what a thing. Yeah, it impacted her. I think so. Yeah.

It so reminds me, I've mentioned this before, we did an event in Memphis years ago for a sponsor of the show, the Duck Show, and mom and dad personally.

And it was a corporate event, and there was definitely an open bar, and there was a band up just blasting. And I got up to open for Dad, and I have my little opening stuff. And it's pretty funny. I mean, if it's a crowd like our crowd, they love it. But this crowd was just like you described. They weren't laughing. They didn't give me the time of day. My whole thing was a complete bust. I had to shut it down early because Dad was up after. I was just introducing Dad. And Dad gets up there.

And it's the same thing. It's chatter and all that. And he just, I mean, like he went into full bore feel. And within two minutes, you could hear a pin drop the entire, I mean, you talk about shut down a party. And dad thought it was so funny after it was over. He said, boy, I shut that party down. You know, he was like, took it as a feather in his cap, but it was funny. Yeah. So anyway, I thought I'd share that. We talk about spiritual warfare. Yeah.

And what do you do? And I just think that's how God uses us as ambassadors. Remember the old Ducks Unlimited days? Remember when y'all used to go speak and it was usually... It reminded me of that. And look, I'm not throwing them under the bus. I get it. They're raising money. And look, the best way to raise a bunch of money is get people drunk and give them something they... At least loose. To look at that's loosening your wallet and they

Did they save the best wine for last, though? Did the drinks get cheaper as the night went on? Look at Zach trying to segue it back to our day. I mean, you know, my assistant, which is my wife's aunt, said, you know, I was wondering...

how you were fixed to handle that. And she's like, I was so nervous. And cause she had already said, she said, look, I get it. This is a good cause and all. She said, but to tell you the truth, if I came here with my husband,

And saw those women. I'd tell my husband, we're out of here. I'm not sitting here and letting you look at women who look way better than me all night. You know, so I'm saying the vibe was, I'm not embellishing it. Like she was uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. And, uh, but she just, she said, I think the Lord spoke through you. Cause I mean, I didn't have any notes or anything. And I just had my phone. I grabbed my Bible. I had my phone cause I didn't want to go over 20 minutes. Right.

which is very difficult to do, but it wasn't in that case. I thought, you know what? You may have 10, 15 minutes here just to plant a seed. Which you obviously did. Yeah. Well, I was in, while you were in Texas, I was in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Carlisle actually is the town outside of Harrisburg, and they were having their 20th annual sportsman's banquet. So they've been doing this a long time.

And I met some of the most amazing people, but you talk about hardcore fans of the podcast. So one gentleman named Jay gave me this case pocket knife. I didn't realize that case is made in Pennsylvania and it's,

I told him, I said, TSA has gotten so many of my fantastic pocket knives through the years. I had to make sure and put this in my suitcase. I thought you were fixed to tell us how to conceal a knife through TSA. You can't do it. I mean, they have gotten so many knives with my name on it. I'm just like, I can't get it back. But,

But these people were amazing, got a chance to share Jesus. But I was in a completely different environment, James, because they were all expecting that. Well, it's been a while since I've been at one of those. And I can blame Will. I was like, hey, because I told Willie about it. And he was like, are you serious? So he didn't really know. And he's like, well, maybe God just...

Worked it out. Because I said, well, I would have loved to have known what you would have done. He said, I probably would have got past, I wouldn't have got past the first two failed jokes. And I'd have tried a couple and said, all right. He'd have gotten into some of his stuff and who knows where that would have led.

So, but I will say at the end, when I got to the duck calls and all, they were listening. They were participating. They were laughing. You know, they were having fun. Well, the beauty of what you have, too, with that is you have a little bit of other link, you know, because of the duck calls and all that, which is good. Yeah, and I'm doing something that most humans can't do. And I'm not saying...

I mean, try blowing a world championship style duck call. Right. Good luck. If you don't know what that is, Google it. But it will get people's attention. If you can string out a note, highball 50 notes without missing a note, well, people, they don't even know what that is, but they're like, wow, what was that? It is something. Yeah.

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And I'm grateful now. It was an adrenaline rush after it was over because I thought this is, I believe this is spiritual warfare. Sometimes you go to the party and share Jesus. Well, it's that verse that says, make the most of every opportunity.

You just don't know what opportunities are there, and you have to do the best you can with every situation. And in a nonjudgmental way. Like I said, I kind of support what they do. I just thought, well, how we get here is,

Let me use that as a way to get in this. So we're in John chapter 2, and Zach tried to get us there on the segue. I tried. I tried to move everybody. I tried to move the ball forward. You did good, Zach. I'm proud of that. Mr. Segue today. Yeah.

And we're kind of at the, we started into this thing about him clearing the temple on the last time we were together studying the book because we've had some guests on recently. But I thought I'd kind of reset us to that because I know we hadn't

Talked about everything we want to talk about there. This whole idea about temple, I just got through reading a book and it's a, it's a fictional series, but it's heavy into the third temple. And it was really interesting to read the book and it was just kind of a subplot. And so, uh,

it was interesting reading that because of us being in this text and the series was great, by the way. Did they come up with a third temple? Well, they're waiting on it to be built, you know, in Israel. So it was kind of that, that mode of thinking. So it's definitely different than what we think this text is about, but it was interesting because I don't know a lot about that. So even though it was a fictional account, it was interesting to see how kind of folks see that happening in terms of the,

you know, everything in Israel, the rapture and kind of everything that goes with that. We're certainly taking this a little bit different direction. Exactly. And what we think. So it's actually the, we were joking, I'm not joking about it. We were talking about the, there's different, uh,

ways you categorize that belief system. I won't give the terms here, but thank you for that. Cause we would just, cause that, you know, Pavlo's dogs, every time that he would train, they train the dogs, but every time they beat him, they'd ring a bell. And then that bell, every time they ring that bell, the dog would start to salivate. It was because his body had been trained through the sound. And so that cricket noise that you guys do, I've been classically trained not to say certain words. Yeah.

Go ahead and say them. You're wanting to say... I'm not going to say the word. If you want to say the word, you can say it. What if I knew the word he's thinking? Can we play a game here? We need some fun music. Okay.

I'm thinking that you want to say the word dispensationalism. That's one of them, yeah. That is one of them, Jace. So where's the cricket sound for Jace? Can we get a cricket sound for Jace? There we go. Cricket yourself. There we go. See, here's what you don't realize the difference in me and you, Zach, because we get to the same place. Yeah. We just do it differently. But what you got to remember is I love crickets. Yeah.

Because it takes me back to my happy place, which is the wilderness and the wild. And so when I'm out listening to crickets, I'm in my happy place. It does not bother me. And most people wouldn't know this, but crickets are actually not making that sound with their mouth. They're making it with their front legs. That's right. They're rubbing them down. And they do make a great bait if you're going to brimfish. Oh, the best. Well, look, you've got sacrifice there. You've got God's...

design? Because, I mean, who could come up with that? What does Phil always say? What part of seawater...

Got the crickets to sing with their legs. What department in seawater came up with the sound from the legs? But finish your thoughts, Zach, because I'm on the edge of my seat. Yeah, so dispensationalists say what? Well, yeah, it is an emphasis on a third temple being built, the rapture, all of that kind of eschatology. Oh, there's the other one. There's the other one. Look, I don't mind you using them.

But I feel like you need to define it. Yeah, what's our understanding of how the end times are going to play out? And when you say end of times, you mean like end of the age, this age. Yeah, end of the pre-

pre-glorification or consummation, your second coming of Christ, like what happens after that? And when does that happen? What happens before that? Well, and here's what I found interesting reading, again, in this, it was a fictionalized book, but it's definitely a dispensationalist view of the happenings. You have to really work hard with the other countries, with the surrounding situations around the Middle East and Ezekiel, which we've been spent quite a bit of time in,

I don't know. It just feels like to me they're trying too hard because it seems so much simpler to look at it aimed at Jesus and the kingdom and the temple as opposed to having to build this huge structure of prophecy. You know, as I read it and finished the whole series and the book was the series was fantastic in terms of entertainment, but I just felt like they were trying too hard. Yeah.

That's what I felt like. It's a very popular view in evangelical circles, primarily for two reasons. One, the gentleman who invented this or came up with this idea, I think it was John Darby, he was able to get, I think he was part of the Plymouth Brethren. I can't remember. What book in the Bible did he write?

He didn't write one. Oh, okay. That doesn't mean he's wrong. That doesn't mean he's wrong. That's true. But I just make the point that it's a relatively new idea that came about, I think, in the late 1800s. He was able to connect somehow with Schofield. You guys know, like, the Schofield Reference Bible. Yep. Which I think was... Actually, he had, like, some kind of updated copy of that at one time in my library. Yeah, they were very, very popular. And...

And everybody had, so they had these notes in there that people would study, and they all had Darby's work in there, which made it very popular. And then there was a series that came out, I'm not sure when, but I remember the books, the Left Behind series, you guys remember that? Which made it really popular, I think back in maybe the 80s or 90s. So it is a very common view in a lot of churches. It's not the view that I hold, and I think that...

Even our passage today, mainly because I think that what Jesus teaches about the temple, it seems to be there's something else going on here. There's a third temple I think Jesus is prophesying that's going to come. And he does say what that third temple is here. So I've been reading articles lately. One of my friends sent me an article of a third temple that they're going to start building in Israel.

And I'm like, what about Jesus' proclamation here? I don't know what they would say about that, but Jesus seems to be talking about a different third temple than some kind of physical structure. Shall we read it? Yeah. Where it says in John 2, 18, the Jews, because he had just driven out the Jews

Money changers and everybody that was using the sacrifice system for profit, which is, and it had gotten rife with this situation. But he drove them out of the physical temple. Correct. So then, watch how this evolves. Then the Jews demanded, well, what miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this? Because...

When he did that, this is where God and humans meet in their system. Right. And now some human is saying, get out of here. Don't turn. What's the quote he used? My father's house. Well, and now he's...

He's referring to himself as the son of the God that you're meeting. And remember back in chapter 1, 51, he has painted himself as the ladder in between heaven and earth. So there's your review. So Jesus then answered them, destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days. The Jews go back to their temple saying, it's taken us 46 years to build the temple.

You're going to raise it in three days? But the temple he had spoken of was his body after he was raised from the dead. Now, John interjects here. That's why we're spending so much time on this, because then he now is going to

future, saying the disciples didn't even get this until they recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. So they didn't understand for three years. This is after three years. In fact, it's a lot more years after that. Now, I think this needs to be addressed. And I've actually thought about this a lot. Not that I've studied it so much, but I thought, why is this so hard to understand?

And even just like Zach clearly laid out, a lot of people, there's a lot of confusion about this. Right. And I've heard people at churches I meet with, they'll make some comment like, you know, at some point we're all going to wind up in Israel, you know, with the temple. And I'm thinking, well, wait a minute. Because I'll think of verses like Ephesians 2 and verse 1.

19. Does it say temple in 19? We grow up into a holy temple. Yeah, yeah, no, 21, 21. In him, the whole building, now he's talking about members of God's household. Right. In him, the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord, and you two are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. ♪

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that wound up in Turkey. But I mean, the way that he was sharing his faith with the, you know, under this persecution and under arrest, he looked at every opportunity to go to jail as an opportunity to share his faith. And so it's very inspiring, just like it was when we read in the biblical account about the very first martyrs still going on to this day. Each step on the journey is going to challenge you to reflect on your own walk with Christ and

along the sometimes difficult path toward our heavenly home. You don't want to miss out. These are great stories. You can request a free copy of When Faith is Forbidden today. So you can't beat that either. It's free. It's free, and it'll challenge you. It's challenged me. Voice of the Martyrs is a fantastic organization. I love these guys. Here's what you do. Request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059.

That's 844-463-4059 or visit vom.org slash unashamed. The V-O-M stands for Voice of the Martyrs. V-O-M dot org slash unashamed.

Well, because you're like, well, I thought Jesus was the temple. Well, yeah, he said he was. And when he died, buried and raised. But it's the same Jesus that sent his spirit when he was ascended, that then those who surrender to him receive that spirit and you become the temple of God because you have his spirit in him.

I think that's just blatantly clear. So that's why we pause when somebody says, well, yeah, but we still need to build a physical structure over in Israel. So after thinking about that, I thought, why is this so confusing? And here's my take. Y'all can disagree with me or not, but I wanted to have this conversation. I think because prophecy was scripted to keep the powers that God created

through Jesus would ultimately defeat on the cross and the resurrection. There's plenty of verses about that. Think Colossians 2. What is that? 13? Or even Hebrews 2. By his death, he would destroy him who had the power of death. Think, is it 1 Corinthians 2.7 or 2 Corinthians 2.7 where it says, none of the rulers...

of the age understood Jesus having to die, because if they would have, they would not have crucified the Lord, is it? Yes, 2, 7, and 8. 1 Corinthians 2? Yep. 1 Corinthians 2, 7, and 8. And by the way, if you look at the Greek on that word rulers, you also see that all through Ephesians when it's talking about these supernatural forces. So that's why...

When you start looking at, well, didn't they understand the Old Testament? Well, not even the disciples. They didn't even get it. And if you go back and look at all the prophecies. And it wasn't just because they were unschooled and ordinary because the Pharisees didn't get it either. We're about to get to Nicodemus. He had no idea either. I heard a sermon from a scholar one time say that only twice in the New Testament did the writers link

the Messiah dying with Jesus being the fulfillment of it based on Old Testament. And they had two references. I think one of them was Psalm 2, and the other one was like, off the top of my head, I can't believe I remember that. I think Psalm 89. But one of them is in Acts 4 where he quotes basically Psalm 2. And so you say, why is that significant? Because when you think of Isaiah 53, right?

And you think, well, how did they miss that? Because it's, what is it called? A suffering servant. Well, it never uses the word Messiah then there. So they're not linking this up. And I think it's on purpose by God is my point. And I wanted to give you all an example. Now, look, I could be wrong on this. So y'all can correct me. But what I'm saying is based on 1 Corinthians 2, 7,

If the whole evil supernatural world knew that they're doomed if Jesus dies, they would not have killed him. And so it's obvious based on the disciples' response here that

They're not getting this either, that Jesus had to die. Remember when Peter said, oh, no, that's never going to happen. And Jesus said, get behind me, Satan. And also whenever Jesus told Peter that you'll deny me, you'll leave me just like Judas. He said, no, not me. Oh, no, before the night ends, you'll deny me three times before the rooster crows twice. And Peter says, no, I'll die with you.

Because he's thinking, he didn't have a clue about a suffering Savior. I mean, they don't have a clue. They are already lining themselves up as the 12 thrones on either side of Jesus. Oh, yeah. Okay, so I want to read you and show you something. And this is, I know this is a little deep, but this is why I think people get confused. And we have so many different beliefs. And I'm going to show you an example. Because I think people, religious leaders,

They'll take a prophecy in the Old Testament, and they'll take it literally. Right. And I want to show you an example. Like I said, I could be wrong. I mean, somebody smarter than me may show you what I'm fixed to show you, and you say, oh, you're crazy, Jay. So, okay. But I just think this is interesting. All right, so I'm going to read Acts 15 and 14.

So now we're post-Jesus death, burial, and resurrection, and they're going around preaching. And watch what happens here. I'm just going to read this story. This is Acts 15, verse 12. The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God did among them.

among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, now here's James. Watch what James does. He spoke up and he says, brothers, listen to me. Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.

The words of the prophets are in agreement with this. Now, so he's going to quote a prophet, and this happens to be Amos, and we're going to turn to Amos and read what he said. But I'm going to submit to you that he actually takes Amos' prophecy and, I don't want to say makes it his own, but he is under the God of the Holy Spirit.

And Luke writing this, I can't even find Amos. Amos Obadiah. Amos Obadiah. You got to see the Psalms. Yeah. Obadiah. Yeah, here we go. I think you're going to find this fascinating because what are we talking about here? What is the issue? The issue is from Acts 10 on, it was that the Gentiles could be saved. Well, people are like, I don't know about that. You know, we're...

They're not from Israel, and they're having trouble with this. Sure. But now the temple's Jesus, and he's welcoming everybody. That's what they're proclaiming. Right. So he quotes Amos. So I'm going to read this. It says in verse 15, the words of the prophets are in agreement with this. With what? That these Gentiles can come to Jesus also. So watch what he says. Verse 16. After this, I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent.

Well, that seems interesting because I thought this had to do with Israel, which in some versions say temple. But actually, David didn't even build the temple. So I think the point is Jesus would come in the line of the house of David. Correct. All right. It's ruins I will rebuild and I will restore it.

that the remnant of men may seek the Lord. Now watch this. And all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord who does these things that have been known for the ages. So there's a little letter behind that and it says Amos 9, 11 and 12. Now you would think if you turn over to Amos 9, 11 and 12, you're going to see exactly what he said. Oh no, you turn it over. Amos 9, 11 and 12. Let's read what Amos said.

In that day, I will restore David's fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be. Now, I'm going to stop right here. There's a heading over verse 11 in my Bible. You know what it says? Israel's restoration.

So what are you thinking if you look at a heading that says Israel's restoration and read that first verse in 11? It would only be Israel. It would only be Israel. So then it says, verse 12, so that they may possess the remnant of Edom. Well, wait a minute. You turn back over here to when James quoted this.

It doesn't say eat them. In verse 17 of Acts 15, it says the remnant of men, mankind. Now look, I went down the rabbit hole here, and I'm not going to take up too much of your time. But James changed that word. If you look at the Hebrew-Greek correspondent, look, he changed the

Edom to Adam. And so then it was translated here, mankind instead of Edom. Why would he do that? You see what I mean? Well, he did it because he was under the influence of the Spirit and he realized the fulfillment of this was going to be for all mankind, even though Amos said it was going to be

for Edom, which was hooked up with Esau. That's what I was going to say. If you track that back, it goes back to Esau, the opposite of Jacob, which was everybody other than. Well, yeah, you go, if you go to, and that, honestly, this is so good because this is what Paul's doing in the book of Romans as well. When you get to Romans chapter nine, and yeah, this is like the verse that everybody, or the text and scripture where everybody goes to, to talk about predestination. Yeah. And I'm like, and I, you're really missing the whole point of Romans nine through 11, because,

If that's what you think he's talking about primarily, no, what he's talking about primarily is the grafting in of the Gentiles into the faith. That's the point. That's the argument that he's making. So when he says, Jacob, I've loved Esau, I've hated, he's not talking about the individual people of Jacob and Esau. He's talking about who they represent. Right.

Israel and Edom, because if you go back to Jacob and Esau, Genesis chapter 25, when he says that, the older shall serve the younger, which is a quote from Genesis 25, he's talking about Edom and he's talking about Israel. And so Edom represents everyone that's kind of not Israel, and then Israel represents God's chosen people. And so the idea of Romans 9 through 11 is that there's a tree

And these Gentiles are going to be grafted into the tree. And Paul says it's not the children of the flesh who are the children of the promise. In other words, it's not the DNA. It's the children of the promise. Yeah.

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Well, it's not that they were born just in Israel. Like you said, DNA. I mean, like...

What's the better word for that? Like your nationality. Right. You know. It would matter how you were physically born into somebody. But it was a DNA issue to some extent because Jacob, because these were descendants that came out of Jacob, right? And so what he's saying, that's why he starts Romans 9 with, I tell you the truth, I'm not lying in my conscience. It bears witness in the Holy Spirit that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart for I wish that I myself were accursed.

and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen, according to the flesh, my DNA. These are people I share DNA with. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory of the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs. He's lifting up the nation of Israel here. To them, to their race.

According to the flesh is the Christ. In other words, Phil said this one time, when God became flesh, he became Jewish flesh, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not, though, the word of God is failed, for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all children of Abraham belong

are our children of abraham because they are his offspring but through isaac shall your offspring be named this means that it's not the children of the flesh who are the children of god but is the children of the promise who is who are counted as offspring so the idea here is what god is establishing is he said my children are the children of the ones who have made the

covenant with. Yeah. Great. So look, we were agreeing. I was just saying there's DNA within the DNA. Right, right. Yeah. We all have God's DNA. God wants everyone. You go back to John 1, 12, and we're back in the same place. But I want to finish reading Amos' account just because I'm saying this is why this is so confusing. Yeah. Because if you read this, didn't go to Acts 15 and say, oh, wait, God

He actually amended that prophecy into the fulfillment of Jesus, literally saying Jesus is the temple. If you go back and read the whole sermon of Acts 15, what are they doing? They're out there proclaiming Jesus is here. The king is here. To set the context for Acts 15, remember that was a council meeting of the early church to determine, oh, wait, the Gentiles are coming in, Acts 10.

And what are we going to do about this? And they're like, well, I tell you what we're going to do about this. This is from Jesus. We're going to accept this. Exactly. But the fact that he changed... Nobody's getting up saying, well, James got it wrong. No. He changed the words around. Like if you got up and preached a sermon and you changed the words around, they would say...

false teacher. That is not what it says. And look, I know a lot of you may not go down the rabbit hole. He literally changed the word of what Amos said and made it apply to all mankind. And now I'll show you where he got that. He did imply, there is a Gentile reference in verse 12 of Amos 9. He says, so that they may possess the remnant of Edom,

which he changed that into mankind, but then it says, and all the nations. Well, there's the Gentile reference in Amos 9. It is there.

That bear my name. Well, what name you think that was talking about? I mean, it's all about the name of Jesus in the book of Acts. Declares the Lord and who will do these things. But I wanted to continue reading because people who read Amos 9, looking at this, as you called the dispensational view, and let's go build a physical temple in Israel based on

Amos 9, they'll also go to John 2 and with the water and the wine and they'll see this temple thing. I'm not sure what their argument that is. It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus said he's the temple. But however they make that argument, look, Amos starts talking about wine, new wine here in verse 13.

The days are coming, declares the Lord, when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountain and flow from all the hills. I will bring back my exiled people Israel. They will rebuild the ruined cities and I will live in them. So they're saying, see, there's got to be a third temple. It's got to be rebuilt. They will...

plant vineyards and drink their wine. They will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land. Never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them, says the Lord your God. That's how Amos ends. So my point is, don't you see how that could be misinterpreted when you don't look at the fulfillment in Jesus? And I think it gives you a clue of how we should not take all these prophecies literally

Because what James did in Acts 15, you're going to have to deal with that before we continue the discussion. Or, yeah, sometimes these prophecies will have an echo to them. So like there could be a prophecy after the destruction, or there could be a prophecy about the destruction of the temple that could apply to 586 BC when the

the Babylonians came in and destroyed the temple. But that prophecy could have echoes into the future and be echoing into AD 70 as well. And I think you see that in the Old Testament prophecies. And you've got to think about that, the simple explanation to the here in the moment of those prophecies and Amos and all the others,

We're probably thinking, oh, yeah, well, people, Gentiles could be accepted, but you have to go through the Jewish rite to get in. Exactly. That was their mode. And now they're missing out that Jesus was going to be a king, but not the king in the way they thought. That's right. Not of everyone. I'd like to say, I know we're about to run out of time, and I want to say this because I think this is going to be very provocative what I'm going to say, but I want to say it.

So he's about to leave us with a provocative cliffhanger. All right, go for it. Trust me, I saw provocative a couple nights ago, so this is not going to be. I won't be wearing any. I'm not going to dress provocatively. Please keep your clothes on. Here it is. Here's the news that we have found out the exact date that this third temple is going to be rebuilt.

We are going to tell you the exact date, and it's in John 2. It's three days after the crucifixion of Jesus.

Three days after the crucifixion of Jesus is when the third temple will be and was rebuilt. It is Jesus Christ himself. Jesus is the cornerstone of the temple, which leads me to my point. Everyone believes that Jesus is the king, but how can he be a king without a kingdom? We don't talk about the kingdom being here. I don't think that's provocative at all. I think that's just common sense. You know what I call that, Zach? A nice conclusion. Yeah. Yeah.

So anyway. Well done, sir. Well done, sir. You laid it out and we're out of time. So chew on that a little bit. We'll come back and dive in a little bit deeper next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.