Ep 1055 | Jase Takes a Whole Town by Storm While One Guy Makes Things Awkward at 30,000 Feet
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I am unashamed. What about you?

welcome back to unashamed jace has already previewed that he will need much editing today because he hasn't slept it's in a blur well you may i love when jace comes in on two wheels on monday to record because i never know what's going to happen though well he said he came in and said uh handed his coffee cup or his mug there what is that a thermos to maddie and said

I made the coffee too strong this morning. Which that right there told me, I don't know what's in that. Because every time I've ever drank any coffee you've made, I've thought, this is the strongest coffee I've ever had. So for you to say it's too strong, I don't even know what that means. It's the new bitter. As my dad used to say, this coffee would make you do a Russian tap dance. Of which I replied, have you ever been to Russia, Phil? Because I have. And he went...

What's that got to do with it? And have you ever tapped Naz? Because I don't think he's ever done that. Oh, you're laughing at my jokes this morning. That's good. That's what I'm saying. You're on a roll. That's different. You came in. That was intensely funny. I wanted to give an announcement because I did a little event in an obscure place in Arkansas.

which I thought I didn't mention it. No, you did. I know I did. Yeah. And let me tell you something. Unashamed nation is alive and well. We took over the town. They had the biggest building within a few miles there, and they were expecting, I think they were expecting 1,500 men, because that's all it would hold. Yeah. But we exceeded that. You were standing room only?

It just... It was... It's hard to describe. Yeah. And they were going to do a meet and greet. So... And what happened was... Backstory on this. This is funny. They had... They were... The name of the church is called Brand New Church, which I liked. Because I was like, what are you going to call it in 10 years? They said...

10-year-old church? Which is funny because the pastors, and you know, they had weird haircuts and all, but who am I to speak about the way somebody looks? You mean like weird, like country boys or like hipster? Did they have on the little elf boots and the... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've seen that one. That's a thing now. I don't know. I don't do that. I got a pair of those. I got a pair of them.

boots no you fit right into the this thing i'm talking about yeah because you can sing and the elf boots as you're slowly morphing into jd vance's body double when i first sat down i looked and i thought oh i didn't know jd vance was on the podcast there we go welcome mr vice president we're so glad to have you today it's good to be here you know we welcome jd vance today oh no sorry that was that so uh

I get up there, and I was talking to them. They said, well, we had two wrestlers coming, and then they fell through. So we decided to go with you and Jimmy Houston. You know Jimmy Houston? The laugher. Now, here's what's funny, Al. We had a guy. I didn't even know Jimmy Houston was still around. How old is Jimmy Houston? I hate to say this. I Googled it to see if he was still alive because it didn't sound right. That's what I'm saying. He looks like he did 20 years ago. Wow. You know?

And, boy, he was cackling. Yeah. So I thought, are we going to wrestle? So I asked him that. You think you can still do the DDT from the old days? Oh, yeah. They were giving away a boat. And, I mean, this boat, it wasn't like a John boat. That's up in boat territory. Most of the boats in America are made up in northwest Arkansas. I would guess this boat had to have cost $40,000, $50,000. Mm-hmm.

And so when I got on stage, I went and looked at it because I couldn't believe it. I thought, they're giving this away? And I looked at it and went, hmm, doesn't have a paddle in it. I mean, you would think a $50,000 boat or whatever it costs would come with a paddle. So I segued into when I was a kid, we were up a creek without a boat. Yeah.

Nobody laughed. I thought it was funny. Another one of those lines that didn't land, Jay. You're striking out quite a bit at these events. Yeah, I am, but it didn't matter because the electricity in that room was off the charts. They were excited to be there. I thought, you know. Did you ask them how many listened to the podcast? No, what happened was during the VIP meet and greet that turned into just 1,000 people rushing toward where I was standing in about 10 seconds. Oh.

So it went from that to we got to get out of here. The meet and greet was a 45-minute walk through the crowd of trying to get back out. There was too many people, you know. But they all listened to the podcast. Wow. I mean, every one of them, that was the first line. So it made me feel good. I thought, man, we took over that town last night. I mean, it was hooping and hollering and everything.

So the guys were, they were like, now what are you going to do on your altar call? I was making them nervous, you know. I was like, well, you had two wrestlers coming. What were they going to do? Come down front and I'll give you a DDT. And so I was like, y'all handle that. I was like, we're trying to make disciples of Jesus. I'm going to introduce Jesus. And so I thought it went really well. I mean, it was fantastic. Fantastic.

So it was a blur. We took that place over. I feel good about our listeners. A lot of young people, a lot of young men. I mean, young men saying, let's go. It's encouraging. They said they had over 200 responses of first-time declarations.

making Jesus our Lord. So I felt really good about that. But the whole weekend was just filled with weird moments. And I'll tell you one, I bumped into a guy in Atlanta and he said, I go to y'all's church. I mean, this guy, and I can say this, he looked rough.

And I realized how I look. This guy looked rough. And I thought, you look like you fit right in at our church because I obviously didn't recognize. What you mean is he looked rougher than you. And he said, I'm taking this as a sign. He said, my first flight was the first time I've ever...

Been on an airplane. And I was like, well, was it smooth? He said, oh, it was smooth. He said, but I had two other members of the church. And I figured, you know, it was God. He was like going play by play. People tell me that all the time when they're on the plane. They're like, oh, I'm so glad you're on here. And it's like, do you think I have some special insight into a safe place? This is where this is going.

So he said, what seat are you sitting in? I was a little nervous because I thought, we're getting too close for comfort. Are you sure you're a member there? But I went ahead and looked it up. I'm in 2A. And he's like, well, I'm in 3A. I'm behind you. I said, oh, okay.

So I forgot about that conversation because I was having multiple conversations. I met this young woman who was awesome for the Lord, but she was friends with the gymnast that we had on. Remember when we had the gymnast from the Olympics? Brody Malone. Talked to her for 20 minutes. Awesome human being.

And loves the Lord. And so, you know, multiple conversations. So we get on a flight from Atlanta back. And to say it was bumpy is an understatement. Of course, I'm not noticing. It was nothing out of the ordinary. Well, I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I see this hand from the seat in front of me start coming back. And I was friends. I used to play ball with a guy that was sitting to the right of me, him and his wife. I'd never met his wife. So we were been chatting. Well, she looks at me and kind of like,

What's wrong with this guy? Because the hand is like in between. We were talking, and it's like in between us. I'm like, man, this guy, how am I flexible? I thought it was a stretch that wouldn't end.

He's trying to hold your hand. I didn't know what was going on because it was him bumping. So finally, this fella turned around. Well, it was the same guy who I guess got moved in front of me. There was only one seat in front of him. He's in 1A now. He's in 1A. And he turned around and he said, Brother Jase, I'm having a panic attack.

And I thought, he wants me to hold his hand. And I thought, we're going in here. I'm not holding his hand. I said, hey, it's going to be all right.

He said, what should I do? And I looked up and saw the stewardesses. They're up there standing talking to each other. I said, look at the stewardesses. I said, when you see them. They're chatting. You're good. When you see them in the fetal position, that's when it's time for your panic attack. I was like, they're standing. They're talking. This is normal. That's right. And he was like, oh.

Okay. And so then I just thought, you know what? He said he goes to our church. I said, I just gave him a sermon. I said, at some point, you've got to realize, am I going to believe in this or not? I was like, Jesus was raised from the dead. This is, I mean, we either going to believe it or not. And I kind of told him my story about, I used to be scared of flying until I had an emergency landing. Because in that free fall after the oil pump went out,

I felt at peace. I thought, well, this is where it all ends, you know? So let's go on, be with the Lord and pass it on to the next generation to share Jesus. I told him that story. So I thought, now I got him lined out. He said, well, can I get up? And I thought, oh, he's fixed to preach a sermon. So I said,

Sure. I think they'll let you stand up. I mean, even though it was buckled, I just thought, I don't think anybody's going to. So now he's put you in charge of this aircraft. Yeah. I mean, whatever you say is going. Well, he stood up and got in his bag and he got a pill, you know. Oh, well, we're back to drugs now. He's back in the recovery house. So I said, that sermon didn't work. We took a pill. I don't know what was in it. But I sat back down. I said, well, that didn't work.

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Then when we landed. Prayer won't work. Just find a pill. Yeah, we landed, and I said, see? You made it. And he said, well, I knew it was a sign that you were on here. And I said, you got to remember something.

It could have been a sign that me and you, it was our time to go. Yeah. And so this fellow's wife next to me, she said, I'm so glad you didn't say that mid-flight. I do the same thing, though. I look up at the flight attendants. When it gets rough, I look at their faces and I see how are they reacting. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Which is really just testing their professionalism because I'm sure they're trained to always look calm. You're right. I'm the exact same way. But the last, every time I fly, it's just, you know, something I do. I'm trying to figure out where did you fly into?

It said Northwest Arkansas. Yes, that one up in Bentonville. Now, granted, you're mine right now because I know how your mind works. You're the apologetics. Do-do-do, do-do-do, connecting the dots. Why would a man fly to Atlanta when I could have flown to Dallas, which is technically closer? And that's a good question. My team makes the schedule, and I go with it. I'm sure it had something to do with my arrival. Timing of flight, yeah. And so...

There you go. I flew into Arkansas this weekend, too, so we missed each other, but it was a rough flight, too. Did you fly into Little Rock? I flew into Little Rock. Yeah. You know what, Zach? I actually had about, I'd say, five people in the line say, where's Zach? I was like, hey, me and him, we...

We have a relationship that if I drive by his house, I blow the horn. I don't stop him. We don't travel together. We haven't estranged. It's cell phones. It's via satellite. It's complicated. It's a long distance. It's not bad, but it's complicated. I was in my old stomping grounds where I went to college at in Searcy. I went to a men's retreat there that

the church that you guys go to put on. So some of my old college buddies, it was a men's retreat. So I was very surprised at how many young men at this retreat came up to me

And so I just listened to the podcast. I love what you guys are doing. Like, I mean, it was a little shocking at how many. So there is a, I think Arkansas, like you said this before the podcast, Jace, if it all goes down, we just need to probably move to Arkansas. If it all goes down, I'm going to run for mayor in a little town called Farmington. Look, I looked up the demographics. There was only 7,000 people that lived there, and we had a couple thousand men.

So they would come in from all around. Do the math. I mean, was that a third of the town or almost half? But I think there were some from just the area. But, boy, you're talking about fired up for the Lord. The one guy said, no, the dynamic of your podcast is good. He's like, you got Al. He's the good guy. He said, you got you. You're the bad guy. I said, wait a minute. I've been redeemed.

By the blood of the lamb? What are you talking about? Bad guy? This guy is spot on because of the dynamic of the podcast. You got to have a good one. You got to have a villain. And so then I couldn't. I thought we were going good, bad, and ugly here. But he got to Zach. Didn't go ugly. He said, and then you got the okay guy. Okay. And I said, you know what the Bible calls that? He said, what? I said, Luke Warren.

But he didn't get it, so I had to look it up and read it to him. I said, no, that created a vomit from the Lord God. For whatever reason, though, I do hear a lot. They say, you need to tell Jace to lighten up on you.

They start feeling sorry for you, Zach. I have tapped into the victim. Yeah, the whole thing. You're the pity part of the party. That was my point, Zach. We got into that. I said, see, lukewarm is bad. I was like, if you have an emotional response towards somebody, that means you love them. Yeah. But if you just don't care...

That's the lowest form. I'd be really uncomfortable. I think it would make me really uncomfortable if you started being real affirming. I think I would feel like that wouldn't sit right with me. It's kind of like my dad. When he started struggling mentally...

Well, some of the struggles produced a side of him that no one had ever seen. He told my wife, I shared this before, that he loved her. And boy, she cried. And so she told me the story when it first happened because I wasn't there. And my response was, that's disturbing. And she was like, what? It was a moment for her and you just like pooped. Babe, he is not doing well when he's telling you he loves you. But...

I do think it was good. I mean, I think, you know, the Holy Spirit is there. Yeah, yeah. And one of the fruits of the Spirit is love. And so, hey, we'll take it. So here's my, for those of you out there that are afraid of flying because I fly all the time, and I don't like it either, just being up there. But my last prayer is just before the wheels take off is I commit to

mind, soul, body, and spirit to the Almighty. It's yours to take as you will, to leave as you want. I mean, so I'm just doing your will. If you decide to go out in a blaze of glory, now I'm not as bad as Willie because Willie says that he wants to be the guy that's like Willie Robertson died in a plane crash with four others. He says that he always wants to be the headliner.

And then every time I fly with him, he reminds me of that. Exactly. He said, if this plane goes down, he's like, you realize the headline. I just praised it. Despite the fact that Willie's no longer growing, the head continues to expand. Yeah. I mean, that's what he says. And he includes me in that. Well, let me push back. He said, oh, you'll be one of the four others. I said, well, thanks, Will. Well, let me push back a little bit on this fear of flying. You know, I actually had a near-death experience during this encounter to Arkansas.

And so that's where you were on the, yeah, I went to Northwest Arkansas. Well, here's what happened. One of the planes, this time I thought, Oh yeah, this time I didn't even bring that up. You know why? Cause I think your commitment is our commitment. No, nobody's promising you anything.

I mean, you know, the doctor tells you you got three weeks to live. And you're like, that's so shocking. Well, why? At some point, we all got three weeks to live. We will be three weeks away at some point. I'm getting into my speech here. I like it. But so what happened was we land in Atlanta the first time. And we're, what do they call it, taxiing.

which there's no taxi involved, so I don't know why we're calling it taxing. Maybe Zach can shed some light on that. To our little place, what do they call that? Terminal. You're gay. Terminal. Yeah. You're gay. Gayed at the terminal, which is another bad word. I was kidding. I hesitated on purpose. We're now calling this the terminal, which is not a shock because we all are.

And so all of a sudden, the stewardess is like, thanks for flying. Good luck on your... She's mid-sentence and taking the bags. It'll be at the little place. All of a sudden, because it doesn't look like you're going fast when you're taxiing, but you're going faster than you think. Whoever is now taxiing instead of flying, when I say he slammed on the brakes...

Everybody went from back, which is why they always say keep your seatbelt. My head hit the seat in front of me just come on. Because you had taken your seatbelt. And my neck has been sore since then. We slammed on the brakes because there was a plane landing in front of us.

That two seconds after he stomped on the brakes came by at about a hundo mile per hour. Yeah. And that was after he's screeching. So it's like you see these little things that have been happening with air. Yeah. Colliding. Something's going on. So here's what I'm pushing back on. Disregard the stewardess because she never skipped a beat. Yeah.

I mean, there was one slight pause because her head probably hit in front of her. But it was like, and enjoy your journey as we go on. And I'm like, we literally almost died. And she never broke. We're here. We're landing. Have a great weekend. Despite the fact that we all just almost crashed into an incoming plane that was two seconds away. It was two seconds. The plane came in front of us. I was like, good call, not bad.

going out there. If he had been on a cell phone or whatever, same problem. So that happened. So Jace, they have a lot of songs about the heart. When's the last time you heard a song about the liver? No songs about liver. And it's quite important to your existence above ground. It is. If you're feeling constantly exhausted, weighted down, or you just struggle getting through the day, it could be a sluggish, overworked liver. The

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From that happening. But we just don't, we think, oh no, it's not going to happen to me. Oh yeah, it almost happened. And it wasn't even, didn't he make the news? Yeah. I mean, unless someone filmed it from outside. Unless somebody had a video of it. That's exactly right. I don't think they did. But because I mean, I kind of looked around at everybody. I didn't see a phone up.

But I thought, you know, wow. What about your guy? Did your guy realize that that just happened? No, different flight. Oh, okay. Different flight. Oh, yeah, he would have never flown. He would have taken the bus. It's funny, Jay, because somebody who knows this person that was on your flight told me yesterday, so-and-so, whoever the guy is,

is, you know, he's a member here. He's on the flight with Jace. I can't wait to hear that story. Well, I just told that story. He was trying to hold my hand. Oh, we had an intervention mid-flight. Well, here's what's funny. The guy that got me and Jimmy Houston up there used to go to our church. I hadn't seen him in 15 years. Really? And my assistant was like, he's going to pick us up. This is funny. This is embarrassing, but it's funny. It won't offend him. He's a great guy.

So he picks us up. He's telling stories about, you know, he's like, your dad baptized me. And I was like, really? You know, and.

So we get, he gets us to the hotel. He's like going to come back, take us to the event. But as soon as we got out of the truck, we were walking in. She's like, that's so neat that your friend y'all are meeting up. I said, I've never seen that guy before in my life. But you know, uh, people's anatomy and look change in 15 years. I mean, I just said, I have never seen this guy. I called Missy. I was like, you ever heard? And I said his name, I don't want to say his name cause I want to embarrass him. But, uh,

And so she's like, let me look him up. And so she looked him up on Facebook and she said, babe, you're going to find this very disturbing and embarrassing.

She looked him up. Well, he actually sent me a text on Facebook, and I responded. He was like, man, great sermon today. And I was like, hey, if they don't hire you, they can't fire you. The Lord is good. I was like, the fact that she found me, because I haven't been on social media in so long, I was like, she's like, you know him, babe. Apologize.

And so then later he brought his wife. Well, you know, it's funny. I remembered her because she was just a unique person, has a unique personality. And I was like, dude, I did not reckon. I did not think that was you. And so, but it was great. We had a fun time and lots of good stories with them. Cause then all of a sudden I start remembering all, I mean, I actually went out to eat at a restaurant with these people and didn't remember it.

So it was a blur. But he lined it up, and look, what a success. He looks like a genius around there. I mean, he doesn't like work for the church. He just said, oh, y'all need somebody to get. I got it.

Because he organized an event for me and Jimmy Houston 15 years ago, and he said, you couldn't stick another person in it. I'm telling you, it'll work. Well, maybe you and Jimmy need to be a duo. I love that guy. On the road with Jason and Jimmy. We need to have Jimmy on the podcast. We really should have him on there. Oh, my first story was, you know, because he kisses the fish. That's his signature moment. So I said, when I got up and spoke, I said, you know what the difference is in me and Jimmy Houston is?

It was just crickets. Because he had just done a 20-minute Q&A, and I did a 40-minute sermon. But he's a believer. He's a good guy. Yeah. And so I said, he kisses fish and throws them back. I said, here's what I do. My story is a little more complicated than a bumper sticker line. I said, I catch fish. He mainly catches bass. I catch crappie. I said, and then I told him out of my brother's pond in secret. Yeah.

And then I fillet the crappie. And then I gave them the recipe of how I cook them. So then I cooked the crappie. Then I tell my wife, I said, the crappie is ready. And then you kiss your wife. No, we eat the crappie. And then they're so good. She's feeling so good that she married a wilderness man who can provide. I said, and then I kiss my wife intimately. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. You were doing good to me through that. It was a men's group, Al. I said, look, I was at a men's conference. You had me until you put intimately. And so they all laughed. And look, then I said, we just fixed your marriage in one story. Don't kiss a fish, kiss your wife. There you go. I like that. I was at a men's conference. You and Jimmy got a future. I was at a men's retreat.

with the inventor of the crappie magnet. I love that dude. Yeah. I'm actually going to see him. He's got some guys in a Bible school lined up, and we're going to

He's a fantastic guy. We've been doing stuff with him for, what, 25 years? Yeah, he's awesome. I think you can say his name. He don't care. Yeah, Jess Smith. The Trout Magnet. He does all the magnets. Check his products out there. He's one of the few people on this planet, when he asks me to do something, which is not very often, I go do it because he loves Jesus and he loves people. So,

All right, we're going to talk about the Bible. Let's get to the Bible. We've had a lot of nuggets, but I thought you'd find that entertaining, if not inspiring, that unashamed nation. Even though Missy says they're not interesting, we love hearing about your travels. Hey, we took over that town for the Lord. Took it over. Did you stay in a hotel room? I did, out in the middle of nowhere. It was cold. Couldn't figure out how to get the heat on.

I was in there. Look, it was 80 degrees. I never turned the heat on in a hotel. It's too hot there. It was about 40 degrees outside, and the wind was howling, and I couldn't figure out how to get it on. So there you go. I had to film. I'm not skinny enough yet to need a heater on. But I was only there three or four hours, and then we moved on. I told my assistant, I was like, look, when you make these schedules, allow for some sleep time. But anyway, let's go.

All right, we're in John 3 is where we left off, and I'm not exactly sure it's been a... Well, I went down a rabbit hole about the... We've been in so many of your rabbit holes, I'm not exactly sure. I know one thing we didn't get to last time was this story about...

that Jesus puts in about the lifting up the snake in the desert. The bronze snake. And the medical world made a emblem out of that even today. That's right. Because healing and because, look, I've looked this up. When you go back and read the story, where is it? Numbers 24. Numbers 21. 21. Look at there. I was close.

Numbers 21. Yeah, I want to read it because it's... Well, I feel like we left off on the... You left off on the born of water and spirit. Born of water and spirit. We were talking about that. The whole point was the spirit was going to be introduced. Right. Because he then says, talking about the wind, in verse 6, flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to the spirit, which I made the point.

If you think that this was a reference to the Israelites being freed, the Exodus with the partying of the Red Sea and the wind blowing, if you agree with me on that, then the flesh gives birth to flesh, I thought, was a reference to, okay, you're born an Israelite.

But I'm introducing a way to be born again where there's neither Jew nor Gentile. And we talked about the variant definition of that being born from above, which is an even better description of what happened. But then he says, you should not be surprised at my saying, you must be born again. But he was surprised. But he's like, I'm bringing a new...

I think, Exodus, a new lifestyle, a new identity. Because you brought in the idea of the Exodus, which I thought the tie-in was what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 10 when he uses the word baptize there.

The clouds over them, the water's on each side of them, and he saw it as this symbolic walking through water. Right. You know, coming into freedom. And don't give me, don't misinterpret. I could be wrong about this. I think you're right. Yeah, well, I appreciate it. But I could be wrong. But I will say this. Baptism is not the point. No. So, and it's still not. Right.

I try to eat healthy, but I'm human, and occasionally I fall off the healthy eating wagon, although I am doing really well right now. But Al, I think Lisa's using this product, Field of Greens, as well, correct? Yeah, we really like this. If you're watching the podcast, I'm holding some of this in my hand. It's great. You mix it up. You drink it. One of the things I loved about the descriptions that we talked to these guys is your doctor will notice, right?

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That's promo code unashamed at buildofgreens.com. Which is why I think he goes to the bronze snake, by the way. Exactly. Yeah, the language in 1 Peter 3 is just so helpful for me when you start thinking about baptism.

I think if you get focused on the physical act of it, and I do think there is some kind of sacramental, and the debate is, is baptism a sacrament, which means is it a means of grace, or is it an ordinance, meaning is it an expression of grace? I think it's maybe a little bit of both, honestly. See, when you start breaking it down like this, I start getting lost. But I think most religious people know what you're talking about.

Well, I mean, we grew up in a church that the question was always, well, it wasn't a question. It was like, do you have to be baptized to be saved? Well, but put it in context. They also put...

it's like they focused on baptism instead of Jesus. And so I was out on that just from the get-go. I was like, you can't, baptism means nothing. We can't go to the end of a process and then just say, there you go. Well, yeah, but let me finish my sentence because it, baptism means nothing if there's no Jesus. What are we, it's a response to Jesus. It's,

I mean, that's why Paul said, Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel. That's 1 Corinthians 1.17. Why would he say that? Now, granted, they were putting their faith in who was doing the baptizing. But look, it's not dissimilar to what happens next. We're skipping ahead from the snake here. But then they have this big controversy in the same chapter because they

John is baptizing, and then Jesus' disciples are baptizing people, and they're like, hey. John's disciples are like, what's going on? Well, he's baptizing more than you. Well, we have a conflict on who's baptizing more people, which is similar to what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 1. Right. And then you remember the famous story in Acts 19. I say famous. May not be that famous. You remember when now the Holy Spirit has been poured out,

Jews and Gentiles have heard about Jesus and been baptized in water, and then all of a sudden they run across a people that had not even heard of the Holy Spirit. This is Acts 19. And they said, well, what baptism did you receive? And they said, well, John's baptism. So you ran across a group of people.

who had only been baptized by John, they missed the memo on Jesus came, was crucified, resurrected, which to us, that seems weird. But look, you got to remember these people, they didn't have cell phones. They're just wandering around. Remember that guy, Jesus, you were baptized saying he was coming? Not only did he come, he came back from the dead. And they're like, wait, what? But you remember how that closed in Acts 19? On hearing this, they baptized him in the name of the Lord Jesus. Right.

It means something. Why is that story in there? Based on John 3, 22 and following, which they were saying Jesus was baptizing people, but then John 4, 1 just has this little thought that says, the Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John. Although, in fact, it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

But that's the end of that controversy, which we'll get to. So it gets, this is a weird thing to navigate. It's always hard to talk about things during a transitional period, which is what this is, because we're reading the whole story, but we're trying to figure out what they were thinking in the moment of as things were happening. That's a good point. It is a transitional period, and I think,

Really, we don't have the faith that we live in now. It really wasn't inaugurated until Acts 2, until the Holy Spirit came. So the death of Jesus had not occurred yet. The burial had not occurred yet. The resurrection had not occurred yet in this text. But I go back to Matthew 3 when John the Baptist says, I baptize you with water.

But he who comes after me will baptize you with the Spirit. And so I think this is connected to the baptism of the Spirit.

Which is not, in my opinion, in Scripture, it's not. That doesn't mean speaking in tongues. I think what he's talking about here is what's going to happen in Acts 2. But the picture that you get in this passage in John here of Nicodemus, we connected it in the last episode that we talked about this to, I think you connected it to the

The Red Sea, the Jordan River also parted whenever Joshua passed through. Peter connects it. You connected it with creation, which is great. And then Peter connects it with the waters of the days of Noah, talking about baptism. It says through that water they were saved. And so I think the idea that you should kind of get in your mind

is that you're passing through death into life. And so that picture of the Red Sea is probably the best picture that Israel goes through the Red Sea

And it swallows up like all of the enemy. And so that's the picture of baptism. And so it's the physical act of water baptism. It's a physical act of the baptism of the spirit. So it's a tangible expression of that. I think that's a good line. Because look, I want to interject a couple of things. Let's just put the snakes on hold because now he's introduced a can of snakes.

So I feel like I'm going to get to the snake, but I feel like we need to say this though, because this is why this is so confusing. He just read what John the Baptist said. And what'd you say? Matthew three. I'm taking you. I think it's Matthew three, Matthew three. So he's like, I baptize you with water. He will baptize you with the Holy spirit. But then when you get to John three, five, he's telling Nicodemus, well, unless you're born of water and the spirit, right?

You know, I said that's why this is so confusing, because I agreed with what Zach said. I do think when he was talking about that, it is the pouring out of the Spirit. Right. And what makes this more confusing is when he gets to John 7, I'm going to read this, because we have to in this moment, because we're reading John 3, and he says, he starts talking about this Spirit, everyone born of the Spirit. It's like the wind. You shouldn't be surprised that...

I'm saying you need to be born again. Well, watch what he says in John 7, 37. On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, if anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the scriptures has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. So let's just stop. What is he saying?

What is he talking about? Because when you start reading this, your mind kind of goes dull if you're like me, and you're like, wait a minute, he's got an illustration about...

If you're thirsty, come to me, which is obviously kind of a metaphor. If only John would tell us what he meant. Well, that's where I was going. So John realizes you're having trouble with this, like wrapping your brain around this, kind of like John 4 with the woman at the well. He's like, I'll give you living water. What is this water you speak? Because we've got to have water. Why?

Or you'll die. That's right. Where there's no water, there's no life. Yeah. So then he says in verse 39, by this, he meant the spirit whom those who believed in him believed

this is a very key phrase, were later to receive. Up to that time, the Spirit had not been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified. Which is the resurrection. Now look, you might think I'm an idiot for giving you this

This idea about saying Jesus in the context with Nicodemus was, I think, going back to something in Israel's history. What that is, we can debate about. I threw out the Red Sea and the old exodus symbolizing the new exodus because he's saying you're Israel's teacher now.

He brings up Moses and the snakes, but he also, there was one point I forgot to say last time, is when he says in verse 7, you should not be surprised at me saying, you must be born again. Well, look, there's a little letter beside the word you, and when you go down and look at it in your margins, it says the Greek is plural. Well, that's where I'm getting the idea of this is Israel. He's speaking to your Israel heritage.

Don't you think that's weird? Like you, when Nick and Demons are looking around, because whatever that was in...

their language in the south in the south we'd say y'all i mean y'all well he's looking around and thought said i thought we were having a conversation mano y mano why are you saying you i'd look around so he told me about but i i that that's why i think it's the israel heritage yeah we call it y'all we call that y'all that's y'all that's it yeah but which is interesting because you go to the very next chapter and it's almost like like a

Okay, now I just had this conversation with Israel. Now I'm going to have this conversation with a Samaritan woman. And he kind of says the same exact thing, right? You got to be born of water and spirit. You need living water. Jace, do you wish you could have invested in the stock market last year when investors scored the highest profits in decades? I do, and I did. What?

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And that's why I said that I don't think baptism is as important when you read this, because his point was the Spirit of God is coming, and I'm going to baptize you with it. I'm going to pour it out on human beings so that they can get it. That's why I read the John 7.

And then when you tie that in with John 14, 15, and 16, he even goes further than that. He's like, not only am I not going to leave you as orphans, I'm going to...

leave the spirit give you the spirit and then remember he calls it counselor comforter helper whatever your translation that's the we're back to the paracletus you know and he said he'll be in you he'll dwell in you i mean and we'll make our home with you through the spirit i mean it it goes so which is what that's why that's why i never liked the question

Do I have to get baptized to be? I'm like, what do you mean? It's a bad question. Now we're tracking. Now we're tracking. I'm like, what an opportunity. And I think that's why baptism is so controversial. Because it is commanded in Matthew 28. Because I don't like it when people say, well, let's go do it. Because Jesus commanded it. Go into all nations and baptize them.

But I'm like, you're missing the power of what's happening here. We're talking about new exodus, new creation, the Holy Spirit being poured out. Somebody's like, well, he said to do it, so let's do it. Well, we made a point. Yeah, we made a point on the Not Yet Now podcast. Jill said something about baptism, and somebody commented, are you saying you have to be baptized to be saved? Question, question, question mark.

I'm like, you're missing the point of what Jesus is doing here. I mean, this is way bigger than that kind of question. It's like way bigger. And I think that like what hits home is the very next chapter, which we'll get into in another podcast. But if you think about what Jesus says to the Samaritan woman,

When connected with the spirit, he says, the thing about it, she has to go to this well. I don't know how often you'd have to go to the well and draw water, but she brings the water back to her little hut or wherever she lived.

And you can imagine that bucket of water throughout the week just loses its volume as she uses it. And so you got to go back, and it's the same thing over and over and over and over again. Just like when you were flushing the toilets during the hurricane, right? I got to keep going out to the pool, get a bucket of water. I'm really compelled by the Spirit of God right now to do a rabbit hole on first pick of three. Can we not do it, Al? All right, you got to hold that. I got to get in my numbers point.

Do you want to do the numbers or do you want to do the rabbit hole on first Peter 3? I have a rabbit hole. Let me say this first, though, because I want to make this point. I think it's key to everything that we talk about the temple. There is a connection to what's happening here and the temple. Just as she had to go to the well to replenish her water, so Israel had to go to the temple to atone for their sins over and over and over again.

The picture that's being painted here is that you will now be the temple. Why will you be the temple? Because the Holy Spirit now, the presence of God would now live in people, which is why Jesus says to her, if you drink the water that I give, you will never be thirsty again. The water that I give him will become in him a spring of water.

welling up to eternal life, which he goes on to define in John 17, 3 as an intimate relationship with him. So you're saying that's the spirit of God. It's the spirit of God. It's the spirit of God. It's God coming in. Since I'm a good guy and you're a bad guy, can you make your rabbit hole point in five minutes? All right, go for it. Look, what he's saying is what I'm saying. I think the reason we have so many disagreements on baptism is because of what he just got through saying. I don't think we realize...

what it is because people say, well, it can't be some something you're doing because Jesus saves you 100%, which I think we all agree on. Yeah. But I'm like, it's not what you're doing. It's what God is doing in your death. And just like Jesus died, what happened when he died? Cause you're think Roman six, when you're baptized, where are you baptized into according to Paul, his death.

Well, what does that mean? Oh, that means a lot. He died to sin. He took the worst of the powers that stood against him. You know, they're like, hey. So I think 1 Peter 3 clarifies this. I want to read this. This is fantastic. So look, 1 Peter 3, 18. Now listen to this.

And somebody characterized what I'm fixed to read as God putting through Peter a bunch of different issues into a blender, and he wrote them down. I'm not going to disagree with that. Look, for Christ died for sins once for all. So we all know that on the cross. That's what saves us. Of course, we're in John 3. We haven't even got to that, but that's what's going to happen.

And he's going to refer to that in John 3. So then it says, the righteous for the unrighteous, look, to bring you to God. That's how you're brought to God. Jesus died on a cross once for all. But watch this. He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the Spirit. Now, I think that's a perfect...

depiction of what baptism is. And you say, well, where are you getting that? Because he's fixed to bring up baptism. You see what I mean? Just think, you're put to death. That's not you doing anything. You're dying. But you're put to, you're made alive by the Spirit. Now, watch this little intersection. Through whom, through the Spirit,

Jesus also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. And you're like, record scratch, what? So get this picture in your mind, and I get this picture from 2 Peter 1.

Two, in verse four, Peter would say in the second epistle, God didn't spare angels when they sin, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons. So you say, who are these spirits? I believe that when Jesus died physically, his spirit went to this realm of the dead and he preached them a little sermon in that time. And the sermon was, oh, you thought you were Lord of the dead and that we're controlling people? You're doomed.

You thought by killing me, you would end my ministry? That's why none of the rulers and authorities? I really believe that's what he's talking about. He gave him a little message. You're doomed, and I'm coming out of here. And he rose from the dead. Well, then he goes to people. He goes...

In the days of Noah, while the ark was being built, in it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water. Because why? They were in the ark. The ark is what saved them. Yeah, if they hadn't believed God when he said build the ark, guess what? They would have drowned. But the same water that was destroying everyone else actually pushed the ark up and made it float above the water, and they were saved. God provided the way.

Watch. And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also. And it's not the removal of dirt from the body. It's not a ceremonial wash. It's not a bath. There's nothing holy about the water. Nothing powerful about the water. But the pledge of a good conscience toward God, it saves you by the resurrection of Jesus. Go back to verse...

18, second half, he was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit. That's why I say, look, all the evil powers and the evil one that are against us and our sins that condemn us, we're speaking the same thing when a person dies. He's telling that world, you're doomed. You thought you had me. Guess what?

God saved me through a cross. And then you come up. I think the same thing. It's a spiritual warfare verse, which is why when I, and I didn't come up with that. I heard a guy say that. And I was like, what are you talking about? We're declaring to this evil world through the power of God. It's not us. We're just dying. We're surrendering. So I think that was the rabbit hole I wanted to go down. And I'm done. That was in less than five minutes.

That was good, though. I think that's what baptism, what it does is it is our own reenactment of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. It's that Roman 6 passage. It's by Jesus that we get. And that's how we get access into the triune nature of God, right there. We come in through this. The Father plans it, the Son accomplishes it, and the Spirit applies that. It's why...

God is a triune God. This is not something that we can back away from. This is who he is, and he manifests this in us. Are we reading Numbers 21 now? No, we're out of time. Snakes on a pole? Snakes on a pole are going to lead the next podcast because of Jace's rabbit hole. Remember, I'm the good guy. He's the bad guy. But it does show you the importance of John 3.3.

to me, in all of our belief system. This is a powerful chapter, which is why we spent a lot of time here. It's huge. It was huge for the moment, and it's huge for us today. Don't miss the headline. You can start over. You can be free. You can be a new creation.

You can receive God's spirit. There's a reason why you see John 3.16 on a placard all around the world. All right, so we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.