Ep 1057 | Phil's Once-in-a-Lifetime Trip on Moo Force One & Behind the Scenes of ‘Duck Dynasty’ Travel
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Hilton for the stay.

hear that spring is back and so is church of seafood with eight piece shrimp surf and turf or fish sandwich each starting at 399 offer valid at participating locations i am unashamed what about you welcome back to unashamed if you're watching the podcast today

You'll see that I have taken up residence back at the new and improved southern lair. Looks good. I never quite know what I'm getting into because I am a staff of one here. And so I have to set up my own. Unlike Zach, I don't have my minions around me. So Zach, I hear you're coming to...

Gulf Shores at some point. Did I hear correctly? Yeah, I'm going to come down in June. Spring just hit here, but it's still cold. So we've got to get some sunshine. So I'm coming down in June. Let me look up where I'm staying. The Little Lagoon Cottages.

Yeah, that's not far from me. When I booked it, for our audience, I want to tell you about this. I booked my stay on a website. You'll like the name of this, guys. It's called Hayjack.com. I wonder where you got that idea from. Yeah, I wonder where that came from. I wonder where it came from. So we're doing a pilot. If you're going to book vacation any time in the next 60 days, you need to go sign up. It's for our members only. You could go in either under the duck call room or unashamed.

We want you to go in under the under shame. You click in, you sign up, and then you search for your hotel or travel. And I'm telling you, like I book, if I book this right now, I can get the little lagoon. The price is $4,299 for the week.

If I get it on Expedia, it's pretty good. It's about $30 cheaper than you can get on Expedia. Plus, on this site, you'll get $490 cash back. If you're going to book vacation, I'm telling you that you got to check this out. I used it when we went to London.

And I got a significant amount of cash back. So if you're going to book a hotel room, go check out this. It's only for our members. It's called Hayjack.com. You'll set up a profile. You'll search in the engine. It'll show you exactly what the lowest price on the Internet is, like on Expedia or Hotels.com. And then also on top of that, it'll show you the cash back and you can book your travel. So if you're going to book a hotel room, go check it out.

Go check it out. We're going to do a pilot for the first 500 people that sign up. And we want to get kind of your feedback on the experience, whether you like it or not. It's a beta version. It works awesome. I've been using that. So I do want to encourage you guys to go check it out. So, yeah, I'll be coming down there, Al, and you can cook me dinner one night. Well, there you go. And we may can set you up in here in the new studios. We can do a podcast from here. That'd be fun. I'll have to bring my minion down, though, if we do that. Yeah.

You had to slum with us down here. Yeah. Zach's looking for a deal. He's always looking for a deal. You know, he is a deal looker and a deal maker, Jace. Well, you got people who probably book your travel, Jace. Do you book your own travel? No. No.

The rest of the world does. Al, do you book your own travel? Well, Lisa does. You got a person. Your wife does. I don't even know where I'm going until I get there. You just show up at the airport? Yep. And I get a text on your screen, and it says you need to board by this time. So then I work out my schedule, and I look at the little number on top because that tells me my flight.

So, which in Monroe, you only have two choices. You can take a right or a left. Now, I have taken a left when I should have taken a right. That has happened. And then we take off, and then I repeat that process when I land. I was like, well, there's another little number. And I look. And so when I land, because I'm not, it doesn't have the city on it. I said, where am I? And someone tells me. Usually I ask, where are we at? And that's...

About how it goes. Then somebody either has one of those little boards with my name on it. Yeah. And I get with them, and next thing you know, I'm speaking somewhere. When do you realize where you're at? At what point do you know, hey, I'm in. When I ask the question, where am I at? And a human being says, you are in Nashville. All I got to say to that is it must be nice. I need that in my life right now, but I don't have that.

Yeah, I don't either. So I'm real careful when I get up to speak and when I say, hello, whatever, I get confirmation before I walk out there. Yeah. You know what city are we in? And someone tells me. You are your father's son for sure. I mean, it's like Phil, he never had the black box and would brag about never having, he's bragging, I don't have a cell phone. But then everybody around him

has a cell phone, that he asks for information from their cell phones. Let me tell you a cool story here. So last weekend, I spoke, oh no, where I was at?

Where was I? Arkansas. Yeah, I was in Arkansas. This is sad, Jay, that I know where you were. Farmington. And so my son called me the next day. He did his first event, and we started doing the math and the timing. We spoke at the same time. He was in Indiana, and he was like,

sorry dad but I just have to tell you I said well how long did you speak he said well they gave me an hour and he he went an hour and eight minutes I thought oh that that's even long for me and uh he said well I want to apologize because I started talking and I pretty much just gave your speech I was like well Reed you're my son and we it's the same Jesus so but I I was kind of

What's a Zach word for that? Nostalgic about that? I thought my son and I, we did an event, and he had like 3,000 people there. Where was the event? It was just like a church event. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so, I mean, he did the little duck call routine. I mean, he did the... Well, when you have conversations with people enough, what happens is your content becomes their content, and their content... I think about how much of...

of this, our discussions here, it starts to get blurry. I'm like, did I say that? Or did Jay say that? I typically take credit for it, but in my own mind, or did Al say that? Shocker. Or I hear you say something that you came up with. I'm like, nah, I think I came up with that one, but...

I think it's all his content. It's all his ideas. There's no really original thought. Well, and then if you think about it, we really started this because Dad began speaking when we were young and formative. Oh, yeah. And in these opportunities way back before the show and all that stuff. And so it kind of follows his lead. I was thinking about the story we were talking about not knowing about travel.

When things were crazy, when the show was going on, we were someplace every weekend. It was mostly mom and dad. And Lisa and I would go along with them just to kind of help them get point A to point B. And so we were kind of there. Other people were arranging things, but we were just making sure they got where they needed to go. And I would usually open for dad. So I was kind of like Jace was back then.

I would like show up and then I would have a document that would tell me exactly where we're going, blah, blah, blah. So we get to back then because we were having to get back and forth to film. We were mostly flying private travel because you just didn't have time to do airports and go early and all that. The good old days. You call that the good old days. You had to get there and get out. And so, you know, with that, there's there's a lot of real positives, but some negative. But.

But we showed up at our little FBO, which is right next to our airport. And, you know, this happens all the time. There's usually a couple of pilots there. And, you know, we talk a little bit. Here's where we're headed, blah, blah, blah. I knew we were going to Georgia, but that's all I knew. I didn't really know anything about the event or anything. And so I was going to look it over on the plane. Well, we get there and there's a bunch of people walking around and they've got Chick-fil-A like name tags on them.

And I thought, hmm, I guess there must be opening a store. So I didn't know any of these people. And so one of them walks up and I noticed his last name was Kathy. And I knew that the Kathy family owned Chick-fil-A and it was Bubba Kathy. And he comes up and shakes my hand. He said, hey, Bubba Kathy, Chick-fil-A, big fan of the show and love you guys. I said, well, man, Bubba, thank you so much. And we're a big fan of your chicken. We call it Jesus chicken. You know, we're having this conversation.

And I said, so you guys opening a new store? Like, what are y'all doing here? And he looked at me, kind of cocked his head sideways. And he said, well, we're here to pick you up. You and your family, y'all are doing an event. And then I was embarrassed. I was like, oh, I probably should have known that. I would have like, you know, dressed up a little more or something. And they had the Chick-fil-A sandwiches. I just remember dad saying we got on Move Force One, which is the name of their plane there.

It's their corporate plane. It's very nice. And it was just stocked with fresh chicken sandwiches and nuggets and stuff. They'd gone over to Chick-fil-A and gotten for us. And dad was like, hey, Al, we're riding in style, son.

I mean, we got this Jesus chicken and we're heading with the Chick-fil-A boy. I just remember, I'll never forget the moment of his excitement over us being able to eat Chick-fil-A on a plane. They make a good chicken sandwich. The most interesting thing I learned in that story was the name of the owner of Chick-fil-A is named Bubba. It is. One of the sons, Bubba Cathy. Isn't that so? Yeah. Oh, they're good old boys. I feel better about it. Yeah.

Well, I started to give you the joke, but I don't remember it because it was a preacher's joke about, you know, when Jesus came riding in on the donkey. Like what everybody's got to remember is the donkey didn't look around and say, oh, wow, they're glad I'm here. You know, when they were throwing the party. You don't get it? I don't get it. I get it. I'm a preacher, I guess. Where he brought in the king.

King Jesus, he was riding on a donkey. And so what do we do post-donkey? We carry Jesus around and we share Jesus. But at the end of the day, we have the donkey vocation here. Yeah, we're just carrying the king. Don't get up in front of a big crowd and say, oh, boy, look at all. They're cheering for me. No, we're just donkeys carrying the greatest –

I don't like that. Yeah. I've been caught a version of that before. Well, I figured you would go down that road, and it's not too far from the truth. No, I have. I mean, I really have. Jace, you have a copy of a new book that's been written by Todd Nettleton, who's the Voice of the Martyrs radio host. It's called When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians.

And, you know, one of the things that you were one of the first people I knew that were inspired by the persecution of our Christian forefathers and really what that means to motivate us. Yeah, when I first came across that book, I was at that point in my faith trying to just, like we all do, look for validation that this is real and true. Because it's like, who would die for a lie knowing it was a lie? Yeah.

You know, I thank the apostles when they gave their life rather than deny Jesus. But as I've grown in my faith, I realize, oh, this is a way for people who believe in Jesus to live despite opposition.

And it's really inspiring. So what Todd did, Jace, was that he traveled to restricted nations for over 20 years. And so this book is sort of a compilation of the people he met, persecuted Christians all around the world, and how they inspired not only him, but now can inspire us. And so it's kind of like his journey, but it takes us on our journey as well.

to be inspired to live out our faith every single day. So we don't want you to miss the opportunity to be inspired by these remarkable stories. You can request your free copy. Yes, I said free copy of When Faith is Forbidden Today by calling 844-463-4059.

That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. Well, I mean, I do think there's something to that. At the end of the day, God uses flawed people to carry the message of Jesus and introduce it.

So we have donkey tendencies. Now, I think that's actually the perfect segue, nice segue, Jace, into our text, because we're in this right in the middle of Jesus having a conversation with Nicodemus.

who was a Pharisee and had quite the name for himself. He was a member of the Sanhedrin. So this guy was a big deal in his culture. And yet he doesn't understand, obviously, who Jesus is. But everything we've been reading this text is John the Baptist, who was another donkey, to use Jesus' analogy, who just pointed people to Jesus. I can't believe y'all never heard that story. I forgot the joke, but I... Never heard it. I don't do a lot of preaching. Well, it was like, you remember when the donkey talked?

walked in the Old Testament. And so then he came in on a donkey and then we share Jesus. We're riding with Jesus. You remember Phil's line? I'm riding with Jesus. Well, actually, we're the donkey carrying Jesus, if you want to get specific. But it keeps you humble. It does. I just thought those little... I like it. The Bible talks about donkeys. Yeah, quite a bit. Yeah. That was the only point I was making. Okay. That's a good point.

But we are in probably the most famous Bible verse. I think this has got to be the most famous Bible verse in the world. Do you guys agree with that? Well, yeah. And there was an era back in the 70s and 80s, especially where every sporting event you watched on television, someone had a sign that said John 3, 16.

And would hold up the sign. Do y'all remember that? Zach, you may be too young. I'm from the 70s. I was born in the 78s. I don't remember. I have no memories of the 70s. Do you remember it, Chase? Do you remember when they would hold those signs up? Well, they put the eye black on, you know, when you could wear eye black and put messages in football and all that.

have John 316. I don't know if Tim Tebow was the first person to do that, but... Or they would kick the field goal and they would raise the banner. Well, he did it under his eye patch and I do remember that because that was in 2009. Um...

As you see behind me, can you guys see this? Let me see. I don't know if you can see that behind me. Let me move over a little bit. I see a lamp and some books. Do you see that thing right there? It's right here. What is it? Florida Gator statue. It's a Florida Gator. It's not an idol. It's just a little statue of a Florida Gator, but I'm a big Gator fan. Tim Tebow, 2009.

He put under his eye patch, he wrote John 316 on his black eye patch, like underneath his eyes, you know. And, of course, you know, Florida was just completely dominant that year, as they have been so many other years in so many sports. Except lately. Go ahead. Well, I mean, they're probably going to be a number one seed in the NCAA tournament, but we can talk about that. Oh, boy. Oh, we're talking about Vazimo? Yeah.

I didn't know they were still playing basketball. Go ahead. Is that a major sport now? Yeah. Well, LSU's not playing in the SEC tournament anymore. Now we're focused on the big sports. Okay, yeah. Anyways, he wrote that on his eyepatch, and in his testimony, he talks about this. I don't know how many millions of people –

Google this verse, John 3.16, as a result of him putting that on his eyepatch. I mean, it's like the most memorable verse. If you ask anybody, do you know any verse in the Bible? They're going to say this verse.

John 3.16. I feel like that. It's true. And look, we've all talked about Tebow before, how he had to, for those of us who kind of rooted against him when he played for Florida, now we know him. And his stand, he has taken for Christ in all things, including his professional career, when he would bend down and do a prayer,

After every touchdown pass or big play or whatever, it was even mocked for it, shows you he's our kind of guy. So we love Tebow. Well, I wanted to say something before we get to that verse. I believe last podcast we talked about just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up. Do you remember the sermon name for that, James? Yeah.

Yeah, snakes on the plane. That was good. That's stuck right there. That's stuck. But I also brought up verse 13, which is debatable, but it seems like he's referencing his ascension in heaven before it happens. Yeah. Because I think, Zach, before we started today, I was reading something out of John 6 about when Jesus said, if anyone, when he was talking about the bread and his disciples

An analogy, yeah, to his flesh, you know, and talking about his body, which seems like a weird text, you know, because he starts talking about eating and drinking, but he's referring to himself. And, I mean, we get it, what he's saying. But it said, if anyone eats of me, you know,

they will have eternal life because this last phrase is bookended with eternal life in verse 15 and 16. Yeah, good point. But to lift it up, I looked that phrase up, and what I was fascinated about is it's only used a couple times talking about his death.

Every other time, it's talking about when he ascended to the right hand of God. So the word is translated most of the time in the New Testament as exalted. And think, you know, when he said, whoever exalts himself will be humbled, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted. Same word, same Greek word. Now, it's in a different context there.

Which when you think about what he did, he humbled himself. Therefore, he was exalted on a cross in humility. But then he was exalted at the right hand of God. So I only say all that to say, because that seems confusing. You're like, well, which is it when it says lifted up? And I'll give you another place where it says the same thing. This is in John 12 when it says, remember when you had the voice from heaven? Yeah.

When God said, I have glorified it, and I glorify it again. Let me see where that's at. John 12, 32, and then we can go back and read that. But it says, but when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself. So if you kind of back up and read the context of what he's saying, which we'll get to this.

You look at your heading, if you have headings on your Bible. In John 12, 20, he predicts his death. Yeah. So 23 says, the hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you, the tree is unless the kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. So he's talking about his death. Yeah, because he had just been anointed by Mary and Bethany, right? Exactly. Yeah. And they had just had the...

They just had the resurrection of Lazarus. That's why everybody was gathering up. Right. And so then when it gets to verse 27, he says, My heart is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. No, it is for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name. Then a voice came from heaven. I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again. Which...

I went here because when it says, verse 32, when I'm lifted up, I'll draw all men to myself. Because verse 33 explains that. He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die. So I know 100% that this is talking about his death, which I think John 3 says.

Did also. But when you tie in that little phrase, which when I looked at what the scholars said, they were kind of divided on why God said, I have glorified it and will glorify it again. There was a lot of confusion on what that exactly meant. Did you know that? Yeah. Some said, well, he was talking about the earth, the

And this is a picture of the new creation tied in with Jesus being the bridge of heaven and earth. Some said, which what I've always thought, is that he was glorified in that he arrived on the planet

You might tie in his baptism when the Spirit descended on him, because this was the last time God spoke. Remember when he was baptized and the Spirit descended on him and he said, this is my son whom I love. With him, I'm well pleased. Yeah. Because I tend to think that just because I think when Romans 8 is talking about us and all the words are used in the past tense, you remember the little phrase that says those he called? Yeah.

What is that? Little Woman's Eight. Yeah. Or, you know. Justified. As he justified, he glorified. Glorified. He glorified. This past week, I drove down to Rome, Georgia, Al, and I had a buddy with me. He didn't have cell phone coverage at least 40% of the trip. I never lost coverage with Pure Talk. That's a brand new sponsor to the show. This is the only company that I've ever gone to, we've gone to them and said, they've

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to save 50% off your first month. Make the switch today at puretalk.com slash unashamed and join America's wireless company, Pure Talk. Well, so most people think that that's yet to happen. But I think, Zach, your little podcast title, this is a good verse for that. Because I believe, I know Jesus was glorified then and would be again today.

I mean, he says, I have glorified it and I will glorify it again. Is that not what he says? Yeah. That's what he says. I think that's a strange phrase. I have glorified it and will glorify it again. What does that mean? So we know he's talking about his death that's coming up within the lifted up, but he's saying, and I would assume once he's resurrected, I would call that glorified again. Yeah.

And he's still glorified because he's at the right hand of God. Yeah, and to your point, James, if you keep going in that text in John 12, because we know it's his death because John lets us know, but then look at the crowd's response in verse 34. We have heard from the law that the Christ, the Messiah, will remain forever. So how can you say that this Son of Man be lifted up? So they're referring to him dying forever.

But they're also referring to him leaving. Yeah, it's a double meaning. It is his crucifixion, but it's also his resurrection. And I would say his ascension, because anytime you see the phrase son of man, I just I'm not saying every time, but I'm saying you read the New Testament. You see the phrase son of man, particularly when Jesus refers to himself.

You have to just go back and read Daniel 7 again. I mean, we've mentioned it on so many podcasts, but it's such a key text for understanding Jesus' own life.

understanding of his own identity. That's important. How did Jesus understand his own identity? So when he uses the reference son of man, he understands himself in the context of the guy, the figure, the son of man in Daniel 7. So the picture in Daniel 7 of being lifted up, it says he was presented before the ancient of days. And so often we read that verse and we think that means like we're, we think it's about the second coming when Jesus

When really what a lot of this language about the Son of Man being lifted up is about is this is the moment when he is being lifted up, presented before the ancient of days, and given dominion. He's given authority, all authority. He's given a kingdom. And so this is a whole lot more about the vindication of Christ that is going to come. And so what he says, those who believe in him will have eternal life.

which is where we're going to get to today. If we don't understand that, then we're not going to understand what eternal life means and what we're going to think that it means, and I would say wrongly think that it means, as only something that happens in the future. And we reduce eternal life to only a quantity of our existence instead of a quality of our existence. And I think Jesus is going to make the point in the gospel that eternal life is much more descriptive about an actual quality of life

in him than it is just, hey, oh, you're going to exist forever and ever and ever. It matters how we see this text and understand this idea of Jesus being the son of man. Yeah, and I'll read it. It's Daniel 7, 13 and 14. In my vision at night. Now we're going back.

600 years. 600 years. He had a vision, and there before me was one like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven, or appearing with the clouds of heaven, riding the clouds. He approached the Ancient of Days saying,

and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory, sovereign power. All peoples, nations, and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away. His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Which now we're back to Jesus riding in on the donkey saying, the king has come. The king is here. Remember those phrases that are quoted? That's interesting, your translation. It reads a little different than mine. The ESV says, into him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom.

He was given a kingdom. Well, I like that better, but I love it. And here's the reason why he says that. So what's the, well, why was he given dominion? Why was he given glory in a kingdom that meaning whatever I'm going to say next, this is a reason why all peoples, all peoples, nations and languages are

Should serve him. That's, that's the, so what's the, what's the goal of God? What's the, what's he trying to do here? He's bringing the nations to himself to worship, which is, which is why I think that John goes back. I always thought John three 16 through 21 is sort of a repeat of John one, one through 18. I mentioned this before, because when you're talking about the God of creation, come at from their perspective, Yahweh, uh,

And then they didn't really understand the Messiah is really being the son of Yahweh. I mean, they saw him as some sort of, they didn't know what he was. He was a prophet. He had all these different depictions of what he was going to be. But if and when he did come here,

Think about how he would speak if he comes from outside time and space into our time and space. And he was only here 33 years, which from an earthly perspective is a very short time. Trust me, when I just turned 60, I mean, 33 years, you know, went by a long, long time ago. And yet that was the time he was here. So when he speaks, he's

He's speaking from past. He's speaking in the present, but he's also speaking in the future. And why wouldn't he be if he knew he created all this? That's why our good friend and our mentor, Bill Smith, said,

Came up with those little symbols that you see everywhere that we talk about because that is a process of time. And yet it expands all of eternity. And so when we start looking and talking about glorification, as Chase mentioned, and being glorified and having the deposit of the Holy Spirit in us, we already begin to experience eternity even while living on the surface. That's why I brought up the he glorified it and glorified it again because you got to remember this. John 3, 16 comes first.

when he's trying to explain to Nicodemus what it means to be born of the Spirit. Right. Up until the New Testament, and even when I mean New Testament, from Acts to Revelation, you don't see the phrase Spirit of Christ, Spirit of His Son. You don't see that. Yeah. But all of a sudden, once he pours the Spirit out in Acts 2,

you start seeing these phrases. Think Galatians 4, remember verse 6? I'll have to read it because I can't quote it. But he says, of course, this is right after he talks about all of you who were baptized have put on Christ, and there's neither Jew nor Greek. And then that's in 3, 26 and 27. Then 4, 6 says, because you are sons...

God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts, spirit who calls out father. So you're no longer a slave, but a son. Well, that's kind of incredible. It's the same spirit that was hovering over the waters in Genesis one before creation took that form. Remember it was chaos and the earth was formless and empty. And then God said, and so here is creation.

So that's the only thing I can explain that verse when he says, I am glorified and glorified again. When Jesus, obviously there was a little more going on. I mean, but doesn't Paul make your point? And I mean, the way you just connected that to the Holy Spirit.

Well, that's the point I was trying to make. Yeah. And Paul makes the point. I think that is his argument in 2 Corinthians 3 when he says that the Lord is the Spirit, meaning the Holy Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom. And we all with unveiled faces behold the glory of the Lord are being transformed.

So that's a progressive language there, or being transformed into the same image. Yeah, you're glorified. Because there is a death. But there is a death. What I was trying to get you to see is that when I went to get back to this, when I'm lifted up, meaning the death on a cross, and later as far as him being exalted,

Because not only did he die on a cross, but then he was then presented as a sacrifice for humans in the presence of God, heaven itself. Think Hebrews 7, which says that. You go down to the end of Hebrews 7, it's basically like he's appearing in the presence of the Father on our behalf. So it is a glorified body presented on our behalf.

Al, I know you guys have had a little trouble with the IRS in the past. Do you get nervous as April 15th tax deadline is coming fast? You know, it always just gives me a little bit of an extra heartbeat in the pulse. You know, when I didn't make any money at all, you didn't have to worry too much about taxes, but you start making a little money, you start doing a little bit better. You have to start paying taxes. When that happens, you sometimes run into IRS issues, which Lisa and I did.

Yeah, so this is for our listeners who maybe have some unfiled tax returns or maybe you can't pay the IRS. I want to tell you that the IRS is aggressive, and the longer that you wait, the worse it gets. Wage garnishments, bank levies, even property seizures are all on the table. So you need to get ahead of this.

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That's 1-800-958-1000 or visit TNUSA.com slash unashamed. That's TNUSA.com slash unashamed. There's a real consummation of that glorification, but there is the language here. I didn't finish reading it, but he says the language are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory

to another. So it's like you, God does share his glory with us. I mean, that's in John 17. The father doesn't share, the father only shares his glory with the son, but then the son says in John 17, John chapter 17, he's like, I'm going to share with them the glory that I received from you. And so like that happens to the spirit, the coming of the spirit and, and, and the sanctification that we undergo. So I think the language there, I love it because it's progressive.

And when you think about this phrase, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

it really changes our description and our understanding of eternal life. And I think also, ironically, also in John 17, verse 3, the way that Christ himself defines eternal life is a quality of life in him. He says eternal life is this and then defines it as knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ, his son, whom he sent. So you ask somebody, when does that happen?

Like, when can that happen? When can I know the one true God in Jesus Christ, his son, whom he sent? And if the answer is after you die, at the second coming, you would be wrong. You can know him today. So what that does is that takes the understanding of eternal life and it removes it from a far distant place.

that we're reaching towards, it pulls it into the present moment. And it is an offer for us to experience right now, today, at whatever time it is, 12, 18, put the date, mark it on the counter. Eternal life is on that date. It's today. It's right now. Well, that's why I was trying to tie it in with being born again, being born of water and the Spirit, seeing the kingdom, entering the kingdom,

And even though the Spirit is the one doing the conversion, I do think it's interesting in the John 12 passage that I started off reading that says that same language about when the

When the Son of Man is lifted up in 32, he will draw all men to himself. He said they'll show the kind of death he would die. When you back up and read verse 23 of John 12, when he says the hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified, which God the Father is then going to say, well, yeah, I'm going to glorify you, but I have glorified you. So that's what we just discussed. But watch what he says when he includes human beings in verse 24.

He says, I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. And then he addresses humans. He says, the man who loves his life will lose it. I mean, now we're back to a death that happens. While the man who hates his life in this world dies.

We'll keep it for eternal life. Whoever serves me must follow me and where I am, my servant also will be. My father will honor the one who serves me.

So you're getting back to this surrender, the death that happens. You know, think Romans 6 is what I—that's immediately where I go. Yeah. Actually, Romans 6 through 8, you could include all three of those chapters, James. Yeah, because Jesus is like the forerunner of all this. I think what he does is he connects—

Daniel 7 with Isaiah 53, which is the suffering servant. He's connecting the Son of Man with the suffering servant, which the suffering servant passage is this. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.

He was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace. And with his wounds, we are healed. So I think that John 12 passage is beautiful because it's taking...

The, the, it's taking Daniel seven, merging it with Isaiah 53. And it's essentially saying that Jesus to be exalted and presented before the sun, I mean, before the ancient of days, he must go through suffering. And isn't that true? Kind of our own story. Like there has to be a death. Romans six, like we go through our own version of being connected with the gospel where we undergo our own death before we can enter into our own resurrection. Um, and then obviously exaltation at some point, but, um,

I think that's such a beautiful way to see it. But we don't like that sometimes because we don't want to see suffering as a means to anything because it doesn't feel good to do it. Well, and I think it deals so much with the idea of a promise. So if you think about it, we spent quite a few, probably the last two or three podcasts in this context, looking back at some of the promises that were given to

to the Jewish people. And this goes back, I mean, to the very beginning, even before Judaism to people, we talked about Genesis 3, 15 and different promises, but the whole thing was set up on promises. The promises made to Abraham that Paul mentions in Galatians, the Hebrew writer lays all this out. He keeps talking about the promises of God, the promises of God, and all this was pointing to Jesus coming. So now that he's come,

The promise remains for us now. We have a taste of it in the Holy Spirit as a deposit. So we understand, we begin to experience what it would look like to live forever. The last thing we have to step over is the last promise, which I think is why he tells us about eternal life here. And that is our fear of death being overcome by that final coming that when he comes and we're resurrected and we're like him in that final glorification. But we're not waiting forever.

on eternity in the sense that somehow we cannot be experiencing it on this earth. We're waiting for our glorified body. That's the only thing that's left to come. But to me, it seems like we fit fully in the character of God when we have a promise in front of us. And that's the way he did it all through the Old Testament. That's the way he did it in the days of Christ. And to this day, we have one great promise left.

glorified bodies to live forever. We'll be like him when he returns. So that changes a lot of the dynamic instead of like we're just sitting around here twiddling our thumbs and waiting to somehow have an experience or a thousand year experience or all the things we've applied to that in humanity. All we're waiting on is the final ticket

for what it's going to be for eternity. Yeah, so what I was going to say is how would you define, since he uses this term twice, back to back, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loves the world. He gave his one only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. I mean, somebody told me one time when the Bible repeats itself, you might ought to pause

He's making a point twice, two consecutive verses. Because I think most people, when they hear eternal life, their mind kind of checks out a little bit because that's something hard for a human to relate to, even though you're reading it, since we're trapped in time and space. So what does that look like? Because some people have a view that that's some kind of gaseous mist floating forever.

Or some version, like your soul or your inner man. That's just my opinion, but I've heard people say that. No, I think that is what people, that's how I viewed it for years. I tried to imagine heaven and it was really difficult to build an imagination around that because I was trying to picture myself as a ghost, but I'm,

Not a ghost. I got a body. You know what I mean? I'm trying to like, what's that like? I was just floating around. It just seems really weird. I don't know. But I mean, I guess it meets the alternative of being tormented in hell forever. So I'll go with it, but it doesn't sound very appealing. I think based on what I said earlier, that John 17, 3 passage says,

I think it's best understood, maybe the word is relationally. And I think about how does it feel, like those moments in your life when you're super connected in relationship, whether that could be a family moment or it's just a moment where you really feel close to somebody.

Imagine now it's like that on an infinite steroid because it's that type of connection with God first and foremost, and then we get to experience that with each other as a result of that. But I think eternal life is being known and knowing.

Ultimately, it's what it is. It's a return back to Eden. It's Adam and Eve in the garden, completely taken care of before sin entered the world. And they really believed in their heavenly father. And not believe in a way, it's not a cognitive ascent. It's not. Because James says that even the demons believe in

They believe in God and shudder. It's not like believing in it's not believing about God. It's like, I believe in you. Like, I trust you. I lean into you. I think you have my best interest at heart. I don't I'm not worried about I'm really just resting in this relationship that is completely free from the potential of adultery, abuse, manipulation, violence.

Or anything like that. So we just have a hard time imagining that because we've all been hurt. You know what I mean? And we carry the wounds from our past. I mean, Jace, I thought about when we did the movie The Blind and

And I sat down with you when I was writing the story and Al too. And all these years later, I mean, there's like still pain. It's still stuff there, right? I mean, I carry my own wounds, my daddy wounds and mama wounds and all that. We just carry this stuff with us. So it's hard for us to imagine it. But that's the promise. Like lean into this is what he's saying. Like lean into what the promise is. And you're not going to fully get it because you live in a broken world and you're all jaded and guarded. But I promise you there is a real promise.

There's a real intimacy that's being offered here.

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So I want to read the verse, Jace, to kind of answer your question. Because this is John much later in his life after writing this gospel. And this is in 1 John. And so this is toward the end of his life. And he had quite a few years on the earth. We know he was the only disciple to survive those early years.

And he says in 1 John 3, verse 2, Dear friends, now, so he's speaking in the moment, we are children of God. In other words, we understand that. And what we will be has not been made known, has not yet been made known. So now he's talking about something in the future. But we know.

That when he appears or is made known is another variation of that. We shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself just as he is pure. And so to answer your question,

as whether we're going to be a noxious cloud, that wasn't what Jesus was when he resurrected. And so I can only look to his example in those 40 days. But I mean, we learned a lot and we've done that every time we studied one of the gospel writings. But then you go when you combine that with what Paul says in First Corinthians 15, when he gives you that idea that what is sown is

as perishable is raised imperishable, the idea is we don't switch out a body for a noxious cloud. We are who we are. God created us to live forever. And that will happen. And we will be like him. I mean, that much I know for sure. It's not a spirit resurrection. It's a spiritual resurrection with a physical body. Well, right. That's what happened to him. I mean, we're going to get to that, John 20. He's eating fish.

On a bank post-resurrection. So, and we brought up a couple of podcasts ago. Now, there is a period of time that as being disembodied in 1 Peter 3 mentions that. Yep. Which I think he could still communicate in some capacity because he went and preached to the spirits that were disembodied.

You know, the angels in the prison from the times of Noah or whatever. Yeah. So I think that's where the confusion gets. But to your point, there is at the end of the day, a new body. Yeah. And he made a point, you know, even when he was doing the Lord's Supper, he's like, this is my body. And John 6, the analogy. So what I was going to read, I was thinking the same thing you were. In 2 John...

And this is just kind of an introduction to this in this letter, but I think this phraseology is compelling. And we'll wait to figure out who the chosen lady and her children is when we get to 2 John, which we will. But he says, "...to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth, and not I only, but also all who know the truth."

Because of the truth, we got three times in the first verse, which Jesus would say, I am the truth. And think the armor of God, the belt of truth, which everything else kind of hangs on, the truth about Jesus. And here's the phrase I wanted to get. Because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever. Well, there's your little statement again.

Because of the truth which lives in us, which I believe is the spirit of his son, and will be with us forever, which I believe is the new body resurrected. How else could you make sense of that? Well, it matters too on a body because the body is what houses the Holy Spirit now and forever.

So the Holy Spirit lives in the body of believers. And so that language of he will be with you, I think that's another way of saying, I just want to reiterate that John 17 3, because the idea is about presence, to be with. And what you just referenced, that's the language of presence. He will be with you, Emmanuel, God, with us. So the whole cascade of the scripture is,

is that God is going to be with His people. And I thought about the opposite, because that's life. I mean, honestly, at the end of the day, what is eternal life? It's being with God. I mean, it's being with Him. And it's...

interestingly, if you said, well, what is hell? It's being away from God. It's not being with him. That's the definition and the description in 2 Thessalonians when he says he's going to punish those who don't know him and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, which he then defines as away from the presence of the Lord. So that separation from his presence and

and from His glory and His might. So hell is essentially going to be to be separated from the presence of God's glory and His might when He comes on that day to be glorified in His saints. So to be in heaven,

ultimately is to be glorified, God's glorified in us and to be marveled at among all who have believed because our testimony to you is believed. That's that John 3.16 language. I mean, this is like, what is it? It's being able, eternal life is being able to marvel at the glory of God. That's what it is. And hell is to be

scorched by the glory of God. And you think about it, Zach, it motivates you to be different in this life. I spent some time this morning before our podcast talking to a young man who has an estranged relationship from his earthly father.

But he's a believer, and now he has his own children, including a son. And so he's viewing everything through the prism of an eternal relationship with God. Well, guess what? Even though there's a lot of pain and a lot of hurt, a lot of stuff from his young past from years ago,

He totally looks at it differently, understanding a sovereign God and what he needs to do to both offer and extend forgiveness, as well as try to build some sort of bridge back to a relationship. Well, if you didn't have that, just think if you didn't understand God in the eternity of the moment, then you would be hampered. You mentioned it earlier. You would be hamstrung.

by your past. And so many people then would turn into addiction and all these different things to try to deal with it because they don't have an avenue. But eternity and understanding it totally changes your perspective on how you live every single day. Yeah, because Jesus wants to be glorified in us. I mean, that's the call, right? And I love that quote from John Piper that was so transformational in my own life, is that God is most glorified in us

when we are most satisfied in Him. So my satisfaction and enjoyment of God is the mechanism by which God is glorified in me and that God receiving glory and my joy and satisfaction are not on two separate parallel tracks. They are one. And so that's why it matters with the kingdom being here now is that the call to life is like, man, we can live today and to live today is to know God, to taste Him and to see that He is worthy

not that he is withholding from us, not that he doesn't have our best interest at heart. We can trust in a God that really cares for us and has mercy

pleasure for us. It's a big shift. Well, I didn't even get to what I was going to talk about. We're almost out of time, Jay. No, what are you going to talk about? Well, set it up for the next podcast. Okay, I found something interesting. I just wanted to see what y'all thought about this. I was going to read kind of Romans 6 through 8, but when you look up eternal life in the Greek and see how that word is used,

It's not what you think. There's always this little phrase that comes along with it, which is basically of the age or to the age. Think about that verse in Matthew 28 when he says, and surely I am with you to the end of the age. Think about Galatians 1 where he's like, Jesus redeemed us from this present evil age thing.

That little phrase, which I guess is a time word, you know, when you think age, because people say, what's your age? You're like, well, I'm 55. But when you start talking about eternal age, it's like there is no number. It gets lost in translation. But what I was going to say is when you get to all these famous passages in Ephesians and Romans,

He starts talking about, he uses past, present, and future in a way that kind of describes the ages. And so I was going to go down a rabbit trail on that. But basically, I think when the Israel community, that's the way they looked at it. It was like you have a present age and then the age that is to come.

which is forever. Yeah. So it's a hard word to translate, just like my point was when I asked you what it was, it's a hard thing to start talking about on being eternal now and later. Yeah. But I think that's how the Bible words it. And so when you put that in your brain and then you read all the passages, it's a little bit easier to,

to wrap your head around. Yeah, I think that's good. Well, we'll try to expand that a little bit more next time on Unashamed. So we're still in John 3. We'll get back here next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.