Ep 1060 | Jase Got Conned at 9 Years Old & Miss Kay Might Be the Culprit!
58:42 Share

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Mario's Bistro. The special tonight is the Beef Carpaccio. With the Venmo debit card, you can turn the basketball game tickets your friends paid you back for into a romantic dinner that you can earn up to 5% cash back on. Use your Venmo balance to pay for the things you love to do. Visit venmo.me slash debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. Terms apply. Dosh cash back terms apply.

Springfest and Ego Days are here at Lowe's. Right now, get a free select Ego 56-volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower, or mower kit. Plus, shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power. Only at Lowe's. We help, you save. Offer valid through 4-2. Selection varies by location while supplies last.

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We've added...

My favorite guest on the Unashamed podcast, my beautiful bride, Lisa. Welcome to Unashamed. Thank you. One plus one is one. That's exactly right. And synergy makes it even better. So tell folks how you're doing, because a lot of people prayed for you last year. I don't know when's the last time you've been on, but it's been a minute, but you're doing amazing. I am. I'm doing so good. God's been so good to me and healed my body and

Now I just, you know, I'm doing so good that I think I'm going to have to get on that diet with you. How do you feel with Al? I mean, you've got a new husband. I mean, what's that? I mean, he looks like a different man. Can't take my hands off of him. Oh, here we go. Slow down. I'm not.

Does that bother me? This is what married people do. So... They just cleared it. They're all good. Well, people say that. They're like, you know, why are you talking about sex? And I was like, God invented that. He's the architect. As a pleasure for us. Yeah.

As married couples. And to fill the earth. Yeah, that's how we all got here. I mean, everyone on the scat here. I think everyone needs that reminder. Make a public service announcement.

But what I was going to say, I'll tell you a fascinating story about my childhood. This popped into my head because I feel like I'm around people who are shrinking. Is this a segue or this like? This is not a segue. This is all the time. We're leaving one area and we're starting another. The last time I was conned, I was nine years old.

I highly doubt that. I bet you've probably been conned since then. Hear the story. Last time that I knowingly was conned. There you go. Back in those days, we used to get mail that had all these ads and all. And so, you know, I'm living out in the middle of the woods with my parents trying to find themselves. And so I saw this ad on the back, and it was shrinking powder. And the picture of it was a boy crying.

Walking down the street and he had his parents and his dog in his pocket. I thought, wow. So I saved up $9.95 and ordered a can of that shrinking powder. But the image was...

You can make everyone smaller. I just thought, boy, that's... Were you going to shrink mom and dad in the dark? I was shrinking everybody. But you know what? It never came. It never came? It never... They didn't even send you the... I don't need it to not work. It never came. It never came. I sent $9.95 plus shipping. Did you send cash?

I don't remember. Well, he had to. He was nine years old. He didn't have a check. If you sent cash, that might be why. Remember, I sent it, and I spent the next three months going down there getting the mail. Or maybe if you gave it to Kay, she might have just sent you, sent it, and get that money. Yeah, maybe if I mailed it for you, that actually got spent. That's a lot of money when you were nine years old. I mean, with inflation. Exactly. So when y'all said that, it reminded me of that. I was like, everyone's shrinking around me. There was a time in my life where I really tried to purchase that.

And be in control. Shrinking powder. I was going to ask you, how did you go from what we were talking about to shrinking powder? But now I'm glad you said that. You see how he made the leap? Yeah, I was wondering how the mind of Jace works. That helps me understand you more. They never sent it. They just took the money because I probably sent cash. No, mom got that. She blew it. That never happened.

That never got in the mail. You never made it to the mail. Well, you're uncovering childhood trauma. Your mother was the perpetrator of the fraud, of the con job. Mom never met a $10 bill she didn't like. You got conned by your own mom. I have to confess, we've been talking about light and darkness, and there's a part of me

When Jesus comes back and, you know, there's going to be a divide. You're either with the winning team or the losing. Or you're not. Everybody gets judged. And I was going to, I just, part of me has thought,

All right. Hey, let's new heaven, new earth. Let's live in this life. Wait a minute. I'd like to know where that $9.95, where is that dude? Let's see. Did he make it? Did he repent? Yeah, exactly. Do you think your mom could have potentially been the person that took the money from you? No, because I check the mail every day.

I'm saying she could have intercepted it. No, I put it in the mailbox. Oh, you did? Yeah. Well, I wasn't going to tell them that I was buying shrinking powder to shrink them and put them in my pocket. Because they were going in the pocket. I see now. I wasn't trying to hurt them. I just wanted to make them a little bit smaller. You know, it's funny because when Jace was young at this age, Zach, I always thought he was just kind of quiet and kept to himself. Right.

I didn't know he had grandiose schemes going to shrink the entire family. He had a lot working there, you know, in his mind the whole time. I just thought he was a quiet kid. I didn't know. Well, we're talking about like these influences in the demonic realm, you know, that are working against humanity. I mean, I have to think at nine years old, there was some.

Not a benevolent spirit. No, he wanted to control us because we were going to be tiny people. Yeah, this is diabolical. I'm going to confess something. I can't divulge what I'm fixing to divulge, so I have to be careful. We may have to edit this, Matty. Eddie, get your finger on the button. I was reached out to, there was kind of a supernatural phenomenon going on. And through a long process, I was contacted to be a part of a team that

that goes in and address whether this is supernatural activity. And now, at first, y'all are thinking, this is crazy. I actually said, I tell you what, give me the dates because the person who contacted me, he's a good friend of mine and a believer. And so I'm contemplating whether to do this because they're going to film it. And, of course, they asked me to pray for them. I guess he said, well, I'll tell you what he said. He's like,

You're one of the most spiritual people I know, and I'm not sure what I'm getting into. So will you come? And, you know, whatever you want to do, pray for us, talk to us about, you know, the Bible, about, you know, what this is. So I'm thinking about doing that. What do you think? I think you should. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite a few states away, but...

Going there with the power of the Holy Spirit and checking it out. I've been contacted as a supernatural advisor into something. You know what's sad? We had those fuzzy creature guys on, and now that's piqued your interest. That's what happened. Well, it didn't pique my interest. They called me. I know. That's what I'm saying. Every time I think I'm awake, they pull me back in. We just had this conversation. I've been studying about it because I thought, well, worst case scenario, if there's nothing to it, I can give them a sermon.

production this is. Well, it's like Smith used to say when he taught us, Chase, he said, some things you just take and put in your hmm box. Yep, I remember that. It could be something for your hmm box. And if you never see me again, now you know what happened. Then we know what happened. You know what happened? Someone shrunk him. He'll be in someone's pocket. You

How's that for a callback? Jase, you need to leave us, you need to leave some way for us to know where you're going. That's right. In case you don't return. Don't call me without letting somebody know. Not that we're going to go after you. If you don't return, we're going to assume. I have a group of men who I made a deal with one time. I gave them Jesus. They have a special set of skills in military warfare. Yep.

Like the guy you've taken. Yeah, we made an agreement. Like if I ever get hung up somewhere, they said, we'll come get you. If I can just get to them. Yeah, and those are guys you want to know. And a part of me kind of wants in. No, not too dangerous. But get into that situation just to see, hey. Ride to the rescue. I know some people with some certain skills. It is nice to have some friends that you could say, if I could get a hold of them, no matter where I'm at in the world,

I know that they could come get me. Yeah. I think that is. That's some security. Yeah. That's the ultimate. Yeah, that feels good. All right, what are we going to talk about today? All right, so here's what we got. So we had a plan laid out. But we messed it up. Perfectly crafted plan that Jace, of course, ruined. I went down a rabbit hole.

I sabotaged the last podcast because Al said the only begotten son. I was just making the comment so I could stick it in there and we wouldn't have a whole podcast. But that's a thing, Al. People want to know about spiritual warfare. I love your rabbit holes. There's a lot of verses in there. So I think we did a pretty good job. So Lisa, we brought you on specifically because we're

We were thinking we would get to John 4, which is the woman at the well. And you and I have done some teaching on this, and I like your insights on this woman because you share some things with her. So we're going to get there. Well, I have an idea. All right. Do you want to do this section first? You want to do that or do we want to? Let's do woman at the well, and then we'll just go back. Wait a minute.

I have an idea. Look, so when we left off the back end of chapter 3 and verse 19 through 21, I do think this goes with the woman at the well. Yeah. Because I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. I think one of the biggest struggles she had, even though it's not directly mentioned, but once you understand the context, was shame. Yeah.

She had been shaped. You agree? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. We are looking at it. No, at least you just stepped into her. Well, because you just, especially when you understand the culture and what she had done and where she was at, at what time.

Nobody ever seems to want to talk about the liver. No, it's underestimated. There's no country songs about whatever's going on with your liver. But it is an essential part of the body. Absolutely. And, you know, if you're like us, at some time in your life, you felt exhausted, weighed down, struggled to get through the day, the problem could be a sluggish, overworked liver.

The reality is your liver is under constant attack from processed foods, environmental toxins, GMOs, microplastics, fluoride, many things you may not even know about are having a serious toll on your liver. A staggering 100 million Americans now suffer from an overworked and sluggish liver, according to the American Liver Foundation. So

So that's nearly one in three people. So if you're ready to reclaim your vitality, we highly recommend giving your liver the support it desperately needs with Liver Health Formula from our sponsor, Pure Health Research. This cutting-edge supplement combines 11 powerful clinically proven natural ingredients to detoxify and rejuvenate your liver at the cellular level.

So you'll experience more energy and optimized metabolism. This company has helped more than 2 million Americans, including me, including Zach. We've taken the product. We feel great. So here's what you do. As a special offer for all our Unashamed listeners, you can try Liver Health Formula with a discount of 35%.

Use the discount code UNASHAMED at checkout. This is an exclusive offer for our audience. To claim your 35% discount, just visit purehealthresearch.com and enter the discount code UNASHAMED at checkout. That's purehealthresearch.com, discount code UNASHAMED. Take the first step towards better liver health today. What I like about where you're going with this, and yeah, we'll definitely transition because...

We just got through talking about Nicodemus. He comes to Jesus at night. Now, we don't know. You can read too much into that. But the idea was it was evident he didn't, I think, he didn't want other people to know he was checking this guy out because he wasn't sure about it. So he comes at night, basically, where he's looking around. He's got a reputation. He's got a reputation. So then we get into this light and dark. But this woman...

to go ahead and set the stage for you. Her deal is in the middle of the day, but guess what? She's still hiding. She comes in the middle of the day because that's when she can go when other people aren't going to be. Well, that's why I wanted to tie in John 3, 19 through 21, because it says this is the verdict, which I never read last time. We just left people at night. I know, we just were hanging. The verdict is in, and guess what?

Tune in next time. This is next time. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. And obviously light is a depiction of Jesus. But people love darkness, which I think is kind of a thought-provoking verse. Love was behind this, but people love darkness.

Darkness. To me, that's such a transition because it's like, for God so loved the world. Oh, it's so beautiful. But guess what? People love darkness. They love what's going out in the world and love to participate. So then it says, everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. So obviously that's going to, we'll read the story, but that's going to translate over to here's this woman kind of going at a time during the day before we read it where she could be alone.

And then all of a sudden, she has this encounter with Jesus. But what I think is kind of, it's not funny, but it's funny to me. It's like she is so transformed in the moment, which is the opposite of Nicodemus. He eventually comes around later in this story. But she pretty well went from being filled with shame

to going around in public saying, he told me everything I ever did. He told me everything I ever did. It's like all the things you've done is why you were filled with shame, and now she's going around just announcing it to the world. So how does that happen? So before we read it, babe, I want you to tell why you relate, because I think Jace is right on the money, before we read the story, how you relate to her in this idea of shame.

Why does that resonate with you so much in understanding that and being in that place where you felt so ashamed you couldn't get to truth and couldn't get to light? Well, and I think it's because that's one of the things that the evil one uses more than, almost more than anything is shame. And he uses that because it works, I guess. But, you know, whenever you...

Whenever you're growing up and different things happen to you, you know, especially as a child, you feel as though those things are your fault, even if somebody, you know, takes advantage of you whenever you're a child. But you still have a sense of guilt there because you feel like it's your fault. And

So then you keep going through your life and different things happen and it plays back on that shame and that guilt, you know, because Satan keeps bringing that up. Well, you know, you're not, you're not any good. You remember this happened to you. So in my life, it was, you know, sexual abuse as a child. Then it was, you know, bad behavior.

Choices that I made as a teenager, having an abortion, again, another darkness. You're just, that is dark. Then, you know, you get married and you feel as though maybe that's your saving grace. You know, God has sent you this person, but nothing has happened to that darkness that you've been living with for your whole life. Yeah.

And the darkness produces shame. All darkness produces shame. And it's like it's a powerful force that keeps pulling you back to the darkness, right? Right, right. Every time you can begin bubbling towards light, it's just like, no, we're going to pull you back here where it's nice and dark and comfortable and that's the place. Well, because I think one reason is that we have encounters with people, but it takes an encounter with God.

to change that and to get rid of that shame. You know, I mean, I'm in the Robertson family, and I'm grateful that God put me in this family. But I'm in the Robertson family, and so I've got all the influences of all of y'all, y'all's wives. I mean, I've got all of that to pull me out of that, to pull me out of that shame and that darkness. But that's not what I needed.

Because I used you as my Savior for a long time. But you were not what could pull me out of the shame and the darkness. I had to have an encounter with Christ. And I think it's the same with this woman at the well. She went at high noon because nobody else is going to go at high noon. It's the heat of the day. It's the worst time to go and get water. And she went because she knew that. Yeah.

She didn't want to hear the whispers. She didn't want people looking at her. But whenever she went on this particular day, what I love about this is that Christ didn't go to the well for water. He went to the well for this woman. Yeah. That is one of the most incredible stories in the Bible. It's only in John. Yeah. And, you know, he would later say that, you know, everything Jesus did was recorded. The world wouldn't have enough books to hold them.

So there's a reason I think this story is special, that it is shared. It is. I mean, because the overall...

I think is what links God will go to to save a person. I mean, this is she's from the wrong region. You know, there's a verse Jews and Samaritans didn't associate. Then in their culture, men don't talk alone with women in public. And to your point, just reading the history of this, because I really think that contributes to understanding it.

So one of the social places women would gather up were these wells. Early in the day. I mean, it was kind of them. First thing in the morning. Yeah, it was like a small group of women. That's why she was here by herself, because of all those qualities and her life.

was just a mess. Yeah. And even though she had been married, what was it, five times? Yeah. And she's now living with a guy who she wasn't married to. Right. But in their culture, well, women weren't allowed to file for divorce. So she's basically been called five times to go with shame. Because what do you walk away from saying that you're worthless and you keep getting validated?

I don't want you in my life. I mean, five different times. Yeah, it's just a cast off. Yeah. But you've said that before. You said dad always had a saying, boys, you need to convert them or cull them. That's exactly right. And if they're not believers, at least it's a, well, I didn't want to get culled. So, you know, but unfortunately, she had the wrong Lord. That's right. Which was there. Yeah, Lisa, I'm curious if when you were in that place of shame in your life, did you

Did you recognize it as shame? Did you even have a context for it? Or was that something that had to be brought out by the Holy Spirit? I'm just curious. I don't think that I knew it was shame. I think it was the thought of not being good enough and being damaged property, kind of like this woman did.

But I don't really think that I knew it was shame until God revealed that. And a lot of it was guilt, guilt over all the many things that I had done wrong. But the guilt and the shame is what kept me in it. Those are two of the evil one's tools that he loves to hold on to and continue to whisper in your ear about. Yeah.

I made a decision that I was going to try to lose some weight. Lost a little bit on my own, but kind of an epic failure. Didn't get to where I wanted to go. And so I decided, Jase, to make 2025 the year of healthy Al.

And so I hooked up with some folks called PhD Weight Loss, and so far, I'm losing weight. Looking better. You're making a comeback. I'm making a comeback. The fact is, 80% of dropping weight comes from what you eat. And you think that's kind of a duh moment, but it's true.

And our good friend, Dr. Ashley Lucas, who is the founder of PhD Weight Loss. She's a registered dietitian and a PhD in sports nutrition and chronic disease. She has come up with a plan that helps everyday folks. It teaches you what to eat. It teaches you when to eat. It works on your relationship with food.

And it shows you how to lose weight for life. I've lost weight at different times in my life, but I've never kept it off. And so I'm really excited about that. If you're watching on YouTube, this is a picture of me at the start of the journey. Here's where I am now. I'm now entering my 11th week of the program and I've lost 38 pounds and feel great. No gimmicks, no pills, no injections, no awful side effects.

It's not like you're eating rabbit food. I stay full, which is a big part of any diet. PHD weight loss even provides up to 80% of your weekly foods at no extra cost.

Extra cost. So check these guys out. Join us on our weight loss journey. You can schedule your one-on-one consultation today by calling 864-644-1900, or you can visit myphdweightloss.com. That's 864-644-1900. Pelham, Nadal, and Saks sent you. I was thinking about, there's a, I was at a event where a very intimate gathering happened.

And there was a man there who was probably in his 70s, and he was a leader in the church, had a very prolific kind of life experience behind him, very well respected. And he felt compelled at this gathering we were at to share with a group something that had happened to him that he had never shared with anybody. He said, I haven't even told my wife this yet.

He said, but I just feel a conviction from the Holy Spirit that I need to share this and I need to unleash this burden on me. And this was a very, very mature Christian. And he said when he was eight years old, I was molested by a family friend. And I mean, he's just weeping. This guy's like weeping. And I'm like, and he said, I've carried this lie with me my entire life that that was my fault and that I was somehow responsible for this abuse. And he's

And it was like at 72 years old, after walking with Christ all these years, having the Holy Spirit and leading other people to Christ, at 72 years old, he had this moment of transformation and healing and coming to grips with that. And I just think about the nature of shame sometimes is it doesn't manifest itself as shame in terms of our mind. But when the Holy Spirit allows us to name it,

then he can deal with it. And I think that's what's going to happen here in this text that we're about to get into. We had a similar situation where a woman that had moved to Alaska, and she said, the reason I went to the most remote place you can go to in the United States of America is because I've been running my whole life. And she was 72, similar age, Zach, where you were talking about. And she said when she read our book,

And Lisa articulated these years, in her case, you know, 15 years of our marriage, but even the years before that, of running and the shame and how it was there. But finally coming to that place, she said, for the first time, I realized the why. And she was just so...

Both excited and then heart sick at the same time that it took that long to find it. But she found it. Yeah. Which was a blessing for us. And I think that's why this story resonates. I want to read it, but I do want to mention this. I think one of the reasons why Lisa and I resonate so much to it is Jesus has six different times where he engages her in this story.

And she deflects every time because she's still trying to stay. She keeps changing the subject. She got all these different ways she does it until he finally appeals to her at the very end and she finally breaks. But let me read it. I'm going to start in verse 3 because we're going to go back and pick up the end of that chapter 3. But in verse 3 of chapter 4, when the Lord learned of this, he left Judea, went back once more to Galilee. So he's on the move. And I will say this, normally...

Every good Jew went around Samaria. They didn't go through Samaria because there's a ton of history here as to why. But it says in verse 4, he had to go through Samaria. But he didn't really because everybody else went around Samaria. They wouldn't go through Samaria. But he had to go through there to Lisa's point because he had an appointment to make. So he came to a town in Samaria called Saqar near the plot of ground.

that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. By the way, Joseph, his bones were actually buried here at the end of Joshua, Joshua 24. So this is a very sacred place to Jews. Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour, so it's the middle of the day, as we've already described. It's not really when they would be there, women would be there drawing water normally.

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, big taboo, Jews don't talk to Samaritans, will you give me a drink? His disciples had gone into the town to buy food. There's John telling them why they weren't there. So now he's alone in talking to this woman, which is another taboo.

The Samaritan woman said to him, you are a Jew and I'm a Samaritan woman. So she calls out both reasons why he shouldn't be talking to her. How can you ask me for a drink? And then John gives us the thought for Jews to not associate with Samaritans. And we could go into the history, but it's a long history of why they don't. Verse 10, Jesus answered her. So there's the first deflection, by the way. If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink,

You would have asked him, and he would have given you living water, which that's a mind blower. Sir, the woman said, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds? So there's another deflection back to what she had brought up earlier about Jacob.

Jesus answered, everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, here's the money statement. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

The woman said to him, sir, give me this water that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water. Again, she's back in the natural. She just ignores really the depth of what he said. He said, so now Jesus changed his tactics. He told her, well, go call your husband. Come back, which seems random, but now we're getting into the kitchen here.

I have no husband, she replied. Now he's fixing to blow her mind. Jesus said to her, you're right when you say you have no husband. Fact is, you've had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have said just that is quite true. And I don't know if that's almost like a tongue-in-cheek response. Like, yeah, you're telling the truth because you're finally now admitting where you are. Sir, I can see you are a prophet.

Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. Just think a minute about how this shame works. He just told her about why she's there at noon and not associate with anybody else. And the first thing she goes into is a deep theological question. Well, and a place. Yeah. Which I think is going back to John 2.

When they were talking about the temple. Yeah. And he was like, it's a person. You kill this and I'll raise it up in three days. So I think that's why it's in here. Another deflection. So verse 21, Jesus says, believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

By the way, this is a huge revelation that this is being made to this Samaritan woman. He hadn't said this yet. It's not a place. Right. Basically. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth forever.

For they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth. Huge statement. Now the woman says, well, I know that Messiah called Christ is coming, and when he comes, he will explain everything to us. There's another deflection, by the way, because she's like, well, yeah, somebody's going to explain it. Let's procrastinate this. Yeah, let's just push it down the road. I think she's not acknowledging that it's him. Exactly. Exactly.

And then he says, he drops the mic right here, I who speak to you am he. I looked the Greek up. You know what it says there? What? He just says I am. I am. I was going to say, this is another I am. It's an I. He just says I am. Yeah. Ooh.

But, you know, it's interesting as you're reading that, I was thinking, and Jace was talking about it's not a place, it's not a place, which I totally agree. Because the question here she's asking is where is the place where we go to worship, which kind of corresponds to where is the place we go to get water.

And and like we go, we get our fill at the temple. Then we come we come home and then our our spiritual water gets low. So we go back to the temple and it's like this. It's this continual back and forth. And he's like, no, I'm going to like God's doing something new here. He's actually going to live inside people forever.

And going back to, you know. He didn't quite say it like that, but that is the implication. That's what he was saying. Yeah. I mean, it's, well, what Lisa was talking about, think about Lisa when you were, like, when you're dealing with your shame in that moment. Like, if you were to, like, push that out, it's the opposite of being one with God. It was like hiding. I mean, that's how shame kind of manifested itself. I mean, I'm assuming that was how you felt then.

Like you didn't want to be known, right? You didn't want, because like what Phil say, I'd never heard that part of the story, but either call them or convert them. Convert them or call them. So now you're having to hide because you're like, I don't want to get called. What was that like just living in a constant state of hiding? Well, that was the...

The two lives that I was trying to live at once. What is it, Al? You say you're a double secret agent? Double secret agent. Sitting on the... But I think that's where the love of darkness comes in. Absolutely. Because then all of a sudden, you kind of... It's like what did the Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption, he was like telling...

I don't remember this off the top of my head, but Mary was telling about the prison where first you're scared and you try to get out of it, you know, but it's like... See, then these walls start to become your security. Yeah, he's like, then you depend on them. You depend on those walls. It's like you actually love them at some point. That's right. And that's the disturbing part of our condition. ♪

I've heard it said before, and I'll say it again. The only two things in life they say are certain are death and taxes. Well, now there's a third one. If you guys are with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, any of your big boy cell phone providers out there, you could be saving a fortune every month by switching to Pure Talk. That's right, Pure Talk. It's our sponsor. It's my cell phone company. I actually use this company. They're cutting the fat from the wireless industry for just $25 a month. Listen,

Listen to what you can get. Unlimited talk, text, and five gigs of data on America's most dependable 5G network. And also listen to this. The average family of four saves over $1,000 a year when they switch to Pure Talk. That's real money back in your pocket.

With Pure Talk's U.S. customer service team out of Covington, Georgia, you can switch hassle-free. Takes less than 10 minutes. You can keep your phone and your phone number. Or if you want a new phone, you want to upgrade your device, hey, those guys can help you with that as well. Switching is very easy, I know, because I did it. I'm now a

Proud Pure Talk customer. And I love these guys at Pure Talk also because part of their mission as a company is to support veterans. They're working to eliminate veteran debt and raising money to end veteran suicide. We want to be a part of that. So if you want to be a part of that as well, go to puretalk.com slash unashamed to make the switch and you'll receive an additional 50% off your first month.

Again, that's puretalk.com slash unashamed to start saving today. Pure Talk, wireless by Americans for Americans.

And granted, it's temptation from the spiritual forces we talk about, but we convince ourselves, you know, oh, I'm smarter. I can figure this out. And you kind of love that process, you know. And he has that time. He gets out, and he's in the store working, and he's bagging groceries, and he says, hey, boss, can I go to the bathroom? The guy says, you don't have to keep asking me. And then he does this voiceover, and he says, perfect.

48 years I couldn't go to the bathroom without being told when to go. He said, now not a drop unless I'm told. And it was just that idea of being forced into that place. That's a great analogy. Yeah, you become a slave. You become enslaved to what has been done to you and how you responded to it with your choice. I mean, I like how you depicted that. You had

Something that happened, somebody else's sin affected you. But then, so what are you going to do about it? And now, well, then you just compounded it. I think you continue to live in the darkness because of the guilt and because if you ever told somebody exactly where you have been,

You're afraid of what their response will be. I don't know that anybody continually loves to live in darkness. I think it's the fear of the light shining on them so that everybody can see what is in their life. That's exactly right. That's why I said for her to have this transition so quickly,

Because she wasn't going around. She was saying, he told me everything I ever did. Because that was still her perspective. Which he didn't tell her everything she ever did. He only told her about her sexual sins. But he, I mean, she concluded...

He knows me. That's right. Which is why I think he brought up that about when he says you worship what you do not know. Yeah. Because they were all in the place of it all. I mean, I did a little rabbit hole search of these places. What I found fascinating-

was that Jacob's well is still over there. They built a church building over it. I'm like, have you read John 4? I'm all for keeping the well. And look, I know a lot of people that have gone and visited it. When I was in Israel, I didn't go because it's kind of on the wrong side of the track. And if you go visit it, they recommend security. But I saw a picture of it, and I thought it was fascinating.

But so when you go back to the Old Testament history, that's what they thought. I mean, they and people still the last remaining Samaritans, they still worship on this mountain today. They have festivals there. Whatever it's called starts with a G. This mountain that she was referring to when she said, yeah,

Oh, yeah, Gerizim. Yeah, Gerizim. Yeah. And when you go back, and you remember Jacob's ladder, which they called Bethel, which they believe Bethel is in a different place because Abraham got the promise there. So they're going back to this location, which is really what Jesus is making a transition to. But I wanted to say this also.

And we didn't read the rest of the story because that really wasn't where it ended. You know, the disciples come back from town and they're like, you know, Rabbi, you need to eat something. And then he gets into this about the food. I have food to eat that you know nothing about, which kind of goes in with the living water. And then this woman says,

She goes out telling everybody, and that last little paragraph says, many of the Samaritans, in verse 39, from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, which there it is again. He told me everything I ever did. And so then the Samaritans came to him, which is a key phrase. And he stayed two days. And because of his words, many more became believers there.

They said to the woman, we no longer believe just because of what you said, which was, he told me everything I ever did. Now we have heard for ourselves and we know that this man really is the savior of the world. Here's what I found fascinating. If you go back to the beginning of the story, and because I believe this is a very clever way of John describing how all people view Jesus. And if you look at the titles,

This is really fascinating. It starts off with her thinking he's just a Jew because in 4.9, she said, the Samaritan woman said, you're a Jew and I'm a Samaritan. Well, you can't be talking to me. That's where it starts. He's just a Jew who's acting. He's not acting appropriately.

By talking to me in the middle of the day alone. That's right. And especially since he claims to be some kind of spiritual figure. Right. Well, look, then, now his little comments...

Made her then escalate it to sir, which I found this fascinating. She calls him sir in 11, 15, and 19. So now he's not just a Jew, but there's a little authority, which every other time this word is translated in the New Testament, I think but one, it's Lord. So it's an authority, a respectful authority.

So we went from just a Jew to sir. Well, then when the confrontation happens, which we didn't talk about, but it was a confrontation. Because at this point, everything's beautiful. When he says that everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give...

will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life. I mean, this is love is in the air. It's beautiful. Love is in bloom. Beautiful. And then when the woman said, sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here and then go call your husband and come back. She's like, oh, no.

Really, that's what happened. Because it's a confrontation without condemning. That's right. But he confronted her life cleverly because then he says, you know, I have no husband. You're right. But then watch what she says. Well, I can see you're a prophet. So now we've gone from just a Jew to sir, someone that I need to respect. Well, now you're a prophet.

So you continue on with the titles, and then she brings up in 425, well, I know that there is a Messiah called Christ is coming. So that word dropped out, but she's still not directing it toward him. Well, I know there was supposed to be a Messiah. And then in verse, that's 25, and then 29 says,

Watch this. When she said, come see a man who told me everything I ever did, could this be the Christ? Now, she didn't just, but we've escalated again. We've gone from a Jew to sir to a prophet. To maybe Messiah. Maybe the Christ. And then I think when the disciples come in, this is interesting. That's why I read that. Well, they're calling him teacher, which they said rabbi, which is still, he is a great teacher.

But where it ends, and the reason I read it, is when they said he is the Savior of the world. And I think that transition to us individually and collectively is really what this is about. It's like he's the Savior of the world. Yes, he's the Christ. Yes, he's a great teacher. Yes, he is Lord. Yes, he was a Jew. He was a human.

And when I noticed that, I just thought, man, that's awesome. But she had to have had a great hope that he was the Messiah because she went back to town and instead of going into her home where nobody can see her, whisper about her, she goes out and tells everybody in the whole town. Yeah. Well, it freed her, you know. Right. So she has a hope that he's a Messiah. Yeah, and a respectful figure.

had actually engaged her, loved her, and I think that just transformed her. I mean, just think how lonely she was. Think how shame-filled she was. And here's, even though there was a confrontation, you know. But there was also, going back to Zach, to the guy that you were talking about. So whenever he voiced what happened to him out loud and to another person,

I believe that's whenever the release of the shame, that's whenever he was released of that shame because he could actually voice that to another person. So this woman here, so she says, I have no husband. Then he tells her, well, you're right. You don't. You've had five. Yeah. Well, and the one you got now is not your husband. So she says, well, you're right. So she's confessing. So there has to be a confession. Yeah.

before this shame and guilt can be released. Lisa and I travel all around the Fruited Plains telling our story and really Jesus' story as it's lived out through us. And so many times I've heard her tell about how alone

that she felt and afraid when she found out that she was pregnant and it was an unplanned pregnancy. She was only 16 years old. And so in her case, she sought out an abortion. But what we want to do is try to help women just like Lisa find our good friends at Preborn Network Clinics to be able to choose life and not be alone and not have to face this on their own. Preborn offers God's love and compassion to hurting women and

and then provides a free ultrasound to introduce them to the life growing inside their body.

They have a lot of great stories to tell, and one of those is Maddie's story. Not our Maddie, but a Maddie who was in a tough situation. She wasn't sure who the father was, but after receiving counseling and prayer and a free ultrasound at Preborn Network Clinic, everything changed. Maddie discovered that she had twins and found the strength she needed to choose life. Her sorrows had been turned to joy.

to joy and we love stories like that that's why this ministry is so important it's one of the favorite things that we are able to support on the unashamed podcast we're glad you guys do as well you're making a difference your tax deductible donation of 28

Sponsors one ultrasound. So how many babies can you save? Please donate your best gift today. Just dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or go to preborn.com slash unashamed. That's preborn.com slash unashamed. Someone is waiting for your help today.

And that was her. She confessed it right there because she said, you're right. And it's a faith moment. It's a faith moment. That's exactly right. So what happened to her was she was thinking, this could be the Christ. I've got to go back and tell everybody. I mean, you know, I've got to tell people because the shame was gone then. That darkness that had overtaken her for all those years was now gone. And she was able to go in and talk to people that she had never been able to face either.

Eye to eye before. And she was finally there. Same thing with the guy you're talking about, Zach. Whenever he was finally able to confess what had happened to him, even though it was not his fault, whenever he was able to confess it, that's when...

That's when God released that shame and that guilt in his life. It's when God released it in my life, whenever I was able to tell Alan, because I had never told another person in my whole life all the things that had gone on. Whenever I had that truth vomit and I shared that with Alan in our bathroom that night,

That's when the darkness left. That's when the shame was gone and the guilt was gone because that's what Christ does. He takes that away. And I then had hope. Now, I didn't know what was going to happen, but I had hope. And anytime there's just a sliver of hope, Christ takes it and runs with it. And then Lisa tells it when she went out behind her house and her temple moment was just laying out on the grass behind her house.

It wasn't a church building. It wasn't a temple. It was just her and the Almighty, and something changed that night. That's right. And so for 25 years, this woman has been going to Samaritan villages all around America to

sharing what God has done. And then when I watched the results of that, we just watched a young couple get up at our marriage refresh a month ago, and I mentioned him because the blind had had such an impact on his life. And so they were telling what God had done, and he got to this point in their story, and they're telling it, and you could see him, couldn't you, baby? He just physically just...

because it was his last bit of shame he'd been holding on to. He just hadn't released it, and then he told it, and it was a porn. He pulled his hat down. He pulled his hat down low. So nobody could see his eyes. And he was like looking down, and we were physically watching this man with that last bit of shame, and then he talked about how that porn had gripped him and then how it had damaged him and his mindset and his wife and his marriage. So he tells about it. He's crying, and the wife is crying, and she looks at him. Here's what she said. I found this fascinating. She said...

He's never said that in public before. And then she looked at him and she said, I'm so proud of you. Now, I mean, we're all in tears because I'm watching this on phone. I thought, you know, that was the last grip the evil one has had on this man to keep him from being all he needed to be.

And then we literally got to watch it like, you know, pour out. And we've seen that many times in the past, people just burying their soul. And a lot of times it's just individuals. It's like a, it's like a dam, you know, with all this water of pain and shame behind it. That if you just, you said a sliver of hope, the way I see it, Lisa is it's,

It's a prick in the dam as a sliver of hope. And once you prick that, then it's like the tidal wave can come. Because you think about in John 3, verse 36, which is the last verse in John 3, right before we move into this story, he says, whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.

He doesn't say we'll have eternal life. He says it has eternal life, like it's something that we possess actively now. Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. And I think that term wrath is more of a passive wrath of God, kind of like that Romans passage where it says that God gave them over life.

to themselves to do what ought not to be done. So that his wrath is just like, like leaving you to do your own vices, to do what you want to do. And, and then the opposite of that is to be in obedience to him. So I think this moment going into the woman at the well is so pivotal in

Because if you think about your story, Lisa, of hiding, even when I was asking you about your experience, I was kind of like, well, but this is all of our experience. So your story may have gone a little deeper in some areas, but.

I didn't have a lot of things happen to me that happened to you, but my story is very similar in that I have hid and I don't want to be exposed. I don't want someone to read my mail like Jesus read this woman's mail. I mean, he read her mail. He literally got in her mailbox, pulled it out and said, actually, you've been married five times and the guy you live with now is not your husband. And she's like, whoa. Okay.

Okay, you must be a prophet. And he ends up telling her, I'm a whole lot more than a prophet. Well, he brought her some truth. And I think that's the thing. He told some truth. It's truth in spirit. And so when he says that, like, she's trying to contain worship into a place on a mountain, which he, I mean, the Jews didn't even realize that as a legitimate place anyways. But even in Jesus's statement,

You guys worship what you don't know. We worship what we do know for salvation is from the Jews. And then there's a three-letter word that comes right after that. But both of those contexts, he said, but now something new is happening. God's bringing intimacy to earth, to people. Now he's really going to show us what worship truly looks like and what true worship is.

It's born out of a repentant heart. It's God coming back in. It's connection. It's being known and knowing. And that's the thing I think that that's our trajectory as Christians now is it's a journey of becoming known and understanding that. And you guys have coined this phrase. I think you coined it. You've said it a thousand times to me.

We're going to detonate our own time bomb. Yeah. You know what I mean? And when you think about it, how many people have you talked to that tried to do just what this woman did? They're confronted with who they are to Jesus, and they say, you know, I got to get back in church. Or whatever. I got to start reading my Bible. Well, but people believe the lie that if they know what I did, nobody would talk to me. Right. Well, here's the creator of the world.

who obviously knows everything she's done and is having a conversation with her, which I think echoes what we read in John 3 when he said...

God didn't send his son into the world to condemn the world. I mean, if he was ever going to condemn somebody, she's got quite a few strikes here. But he sent his son to save the world, and whoever believes in him is not condemned. So of all the people you could have a conversation with and know everything that you've ever done and is still willing to have a conversation with,

You talking to the creator of the world, because we all tend to be earthly in that God's a million miles away. He doesn't know what I'm doing because I don't believe he's there. And I think that's why it is about a person. And he has the conversation. Let me say this one thing, because it is a lie. It's a lie. And even when Lisa, when you were telling your story, I thought that's a lie. Think about the absurdity of the lie that you believe that you are afraid that

that if you were to let yourself be known by Phil, that you would be cold. Well, I'm like, I could have just let you watch the blind and he would have seen this guy with the choir boy. I mean, like he, of all people, like, like, I mean, like, but the, you, you, in that setting, you thought I can't be known here. But if you look at the setting of who you were afraid to be known by, he was probably worse than you were. Yeah. And it,

I think that's the interesting thing about how the devil, that's what he says. I want you to hide. I don't want you to be known. Keep that a secret. Don't tell anybody. If they knew you, if they really knew you, weirdo, you pervert, you whatever the accusation is. Yeah. You know, I think that the Lord's just like, let me just take that away. Just open it up. Be known. I'm going to be present even in your depravity. I'm present by your enemies. I died for you.

Which is the ultimate. All right, we're almost out of time. We need to bring it on. Yeah, so I think compassion, the best thing for us to do in our daily life whenever we are helping other people is to show Christ compassion. He did not say to this woman, you know, he didn't condemn her. He didn't say, you know, you prostitute, you know, but he didn't call her that.

He told her what she did, and then he told her, I can give you living water. I can be the person. I can be the thing that you're looking for. So I think the most important thing for us to do every day is to show that same compassion to other people, especially in their darkness. Yeah, that's a good point. I want to read this. This is Galatians 4.

Verse 8, and Paul says, Formerly when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not God's, little g. But now that you know God, and then I love this little dash, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? It's an ongoing thing. God knows us.

Deal with it in a positive. He knows our name. Well, we only scratched the surface. Our brother-in-law, Tony Thomas, has painted a picture of Jesus and the woman at the well. So check his, I think it's Tony Thomas' website.

TonyThomasArt.com. So check that out. But anyway, Lisa, thanks for coming on. Sure. I wish we'd had more time, but we scratched the surface of this great story. We'll pick it up next time. We're in a shame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.