Ep 1065 | Should Christians Watch 'The Chosen' & Are You Looking for a Sign from God?
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My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

I am unashamed. What about you?

Welcome back to Unashamed. This is, for me, this is kids' spring break week, which, I don't know, that may not matter to you two. It should maybe to you, Zach, but Jace's kids are away from here, so you don't really have them. See, you assume. You assume that. Yeah. But you would be wrong in this case because we have the little man here.

I guess now that makes sense. I didn't know why we had him, but I guess the spring break. So this has gone on for days. And we're going to be talking about signs today. Don't get hung up on the signs. You want to be looking at what it is pointing to. Who's saying the sign when there's signs? Signs, signs, everywhere signs. Who did that?

I don't know. I want to say it was. Look it up. Look it up, Zell. Al, there's a thing called the internet. It was just a random thought that crossed my mind. Maddie's on it. So, but yeah, if you don't realize what it's pointing to, which, you know, think about our childhood, Al. Every sign that you pass going to where we were raised has multiple bullet holes in it. Yeah.

That just shows you there is. I get it. You want to find what the signs are leading to. Well, let me ask you, Jay, because this has been many years. I'm sure the...

Statute of limitations has run out. Did you ever shoot a sign down there back in the day? I have shot. I have too. So I just, I was just wondering if I was the only one. We've never admitted it to each other, but there's a difference in shooting. I did sight in a rifle. But there is a difference in shooting a sign out of anger or mischief. I was sighting in a rifle. Me too. Yeah. I was like, it's perfect. It was there. Yeah.

So vandalism is okay as long as it's for. Well, we're not saying that. We don't encourage the shoot. I was sighting in my rifle. I had to hit right there. I'm saying we were way out in the country. We didn't know. They were there. We weren't exactly sure of the law. But how many signs out in the country? Think about it.

I've never driven by some. Well, they're all shut up. It's just like... Well, what's funny is, what about when you're driving along here, like on Interstate, and you see the signs? I'm like, when are they doing that? Because, you know, it's a busy highway. It's an Interstate travel highway. And yet, when you get up in this part of the country, even the Interstate signs are shut. You know what's weird, though? You're making me think about something. I'd never seen this before.

until I was out, there's a certain part of Louisiana that's kind of no man's land. It's around like Alexandria, Jonesboro, Jonesville, all that area. We call it the Badlands. It's kind of the mid-section of us. Gina. Yeah. I mean, it's no man's land. But I remember when I would drive out there back in my earlier career,

And you drive by a sign, and I don't know what this was, but they always had... Tell me if you've ever seen this. It would be a string of massive flathead catfish. It'd be like seven of them hanging on a sign, but they'd be all over the place. I'd see them all the time. I never knew. I'd never seen it. Y'all seen that? It was actual fish or just carcasses? It was just the head...

And the carcass? And the carcass, but they'd be strung up. So it'd be like they'd be on top of one another and they'd be hanging from like a sign, like a stop sign. I don't know that I've ever seen that. Oh, yeah. I've seen it because I hate to tell you what that is. It's you take one thing, you conquered it. Yeah. So you ate fish. Yeah. Well, then you use that fish for bait.

They hang them on a sign and then come back at night. Oh, yeah. And then you got coyotes, foxes.

Everything going for it. So those were baits. Those were baited traps. Which is why you have so many holes and signs. Oh. Because then they... Look at Jason. This is red. Is that true? Did you make that up or is that actually true? I cannot... Why? Look. Why would he make it up? There's a... Zach, I want to... Are you familiar with that we're part of a world within a world? Yeah.

We're members of the kingdom of God in this world. I am familiar. Well, there's another world within the world within the world, and it's called the redneck world. Oh, yeah. That's what rednecks do. So it's like you see this, and you're saying in one moment, these are my trophies. I'm a good fisherman. That's the redneck logic. So then you use your trophies as bait for,

to get another trophy. That's why you have... It's a world within a world within... Well, I'll go one deeper. I did not know that. I'm a redneck, but I didn't know. I didn't know. There's another world, Jace. There's another world inside the world, the redneck world, that I got to taste a little bit of last time I was there. And it's actually right across the hall from where you're sitting right now called the Duck Car Room. I was a guest on the Duck Car Room. Oh, boy. Yeah. Now, that's a world. Yeah.

That's just on the other side of our wall here, that world within our world. Yeah, there's a thin line between a podcast that has meaningful material and

and just a pool of ignorant babble. So you're saying they're going back to... We've been talking about going past the Tower of Babel. They're going back to the Tower of Babel. I actually said that the last time I walked in. I said, now over here, right next door, we have...

Multiple men speaking one language, that is Jesus. I said, in this room, we have a table of babble. Babble.

Two tables. It was fun. I'll tell you that. Zach was all, he was all excited. I mean, the Tower of Babel had a purpose. Oh, yeah. There's an energy there for sure. To lead you to men speaking one language that was fulfilled in Jesus. But Matty, our crack staff, buried the lead here.

And she sent me signs, you know, signs, signs everywhere. Listen to the first verse of this. First of all, it's a Canadian rock band, Maddie says, called the Five Man Electrical Band. Well, is this the song by Les Emerson? Same song? Yeah, same song. Let me read you. I know, I was looking at it. Look.

And the sign said, long-haired freaky people need not apply. That's you. Look, so I tuck my hair up under my hat. How many times have you done that? I do it often. My lovely wife cannot stand when I do that. So watch. And I went in to ask him why. And he said,

You look like a fine, upstanding young man. I think you'll do. So I took off my hat and said, imagine that. Huh. Me working for you. Wow. The ultimate. This is Jace's anthem, and we never knew it. We've totally blundered it. And look, I left off the last word, Zach. What's the last one? Whoa. Whoa.

Which is Sadie's podcast. Which is my dad has said many a times. He'll look at something and go, whoa. That's right. The times have changed. I was thinking of the David Allen Coe song where he said, my long hair just can't cover up my redneck. And I've won every fight I've ever fought. So listen to the second stanza. Sign, sign, everywhere sign. There's a chorus. Blocking out the scenery. Breaking my mind. Do this. Don't do that.

Can't you read the sign? Jase, we found your theme song. That's like, this is your song. This is back. Thank you. Thank you, Unashamed Nation. I wonder why. That crossed my mind. So this morning, to get back to the little toddler,

So I've been taking the morning shift, which is kind of strange because I go to bed about three hours after my wife, because I was studying last night. And, oh, I got a couple of doozies. Well, boy, he's been studying, Zach. Talking about signs. Look, I had to confess to my wife this morning after I told her what had happened, which I'm fixed to tell you. I was like, I did not know these two stories were in the Bible. I guess I forgot them. I mean, the older you get, you forget. So, yeah.

Listen to that. That could be another song. The older you get, the more you forget. It's a good line for a song. We need a song about that, Zach. Go to work. Zach, type that up. So look. Send that to your kids. So I think I've told you this before, that little man, you know, he had a problem going to bed and getting up. He'd get out of the bed. He's got a big boy bed now, and he's real proud of it, but he just wouldn't stay in it. And so my wife found somewhere, I guess on Amazon or whatever, this little clock that

Did I share this? You set the alarm, and so it lights up red. And when it's time for him to get up, it turns green. And so it was 6.30, not 7. So that boy was sitting in that bed with anticipation. Waiting for the green light. Waiting for the green light. It's brilliant. And look, so he comes down, and he's like, it's green. He calls me J-Rock.

Jay Rock, come look. Come look. I go up there every morning, same thing. I was like, yep, it's great. He is jumping up and down over that thing. Well, I stayed up late last night. Usually I'm already up, you know, fixing some bacon, and we've got to go through the process. Well, this morning I was tired, and I had my alarm set for like 6.30 because he was going to get up at 7. So I have everything. I take the mornings, yeah. Yeah.

Well, I don't even remember my alarm going off. It did. And I turned it off without knowing it. You never came out of your sleep. You just did it in your sleep. I never came out of my sleep because I went to bed at 1.30 or 2. So look, I'm laying there full asleep. I'm in coma. And I jumped straight. I was laying on my side. I literally left the bed.

Because this little boy had come into our room without anybody knowing it and said, Jay Rock, it's green. I jumped like I was on a ride in an amusement park.

When I was in college, probably one of the most transformative books that I read was a book from Voice of the Martyrs that talked about the persecution that had gone on throughout the church's history. Unfortunately, this is just something from the past. It's something that still happens today. And

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That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. I got up. I mean, in my underwear, like a zombie following him because he took off running to show me the green. So I trip. I fall on the way. But we go up the stairs. I fall.

Open the door and then stub my toe as bad as I, you know, nothing hurts. Like when you just full on. Full wedge. And I'm like, what could that be? I thought it was a toy or whatever. I found out later.

He wants his door cracked because of monsters or whatever. Yeah. So it has to be slightly cracked. So Missy, my wife, puts an iron. I mean, full iron weighs two pounds, kind of doorstop behind the door. And my big toe, which I broke my toenail on, I hit that stumble and fall. Jase, that's going to leave a mark. So now I'm laying like I was in bed, and he said, it's great.

And I'm like, it's great. It's great. It's great. So that's how my morning started. And I thought, it's the sign. For him, that's the sign to get up. But he's hung up on the sign. You know why? Because he's three. It doesn't. He forgot that he doesn't like to get up. He doesn't want to go to bed.

He wants to get up. He forgot all of that because he was just obsessed with the sun. But if it works, who cares? Well, and that's kind of like us, Jase. So we're in town this week. And so the grandkids, you know, we've been taking it. We're calling it the spring break staycation. And so every day we've been going to somewhere around here and doing stuff you don't normally do in your hometown. We went to Surge. We go to the ice cream. But every day we got a little adventure planned.

And it's really interesting because you talk about that spring break. What they're most excited about is they get to spend time with us because we're gone so much. So it's like it's the sign, it's the thing that points you, or it's the real deal. Like for my grandkids, it's the real deal. They come over, they spend the night at the house, they're up every morning, they're raring to go. It's so funny because when it's time for school, you're dragging everybody out of the bed. You can't hardly get them going in the morning.

But when it's staycation, everybody's up saying, when are we leaving? When's the next thing? It's really funny to watch the psychology of it. So I'm doing the same thing. So I've had a few days of we've gone fishing, multiple playgrounds in the neighborhood. Y'all were up at our house one day. Oh, we were there yesterday. Every little thing. Which I'm glad because we got all that play equipment.

When mine were little, they'd spent that time on them. Now they've gotten older, so they got used to it. But now we're introducing a whole new generation. We've been wearing it now. A whole new generation is coming out. All my rods and reels, because he really loves fishing. Look, he caught his first bass by himself. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. How old is he? He's three. And so I was over at Willie's Pond, which is...

Now, I mean, Willie's like, what are you doing over here? I was like, I'm taking a kid fishing. He said, oh, okay. Chase finally found the ultimate excuse to poach parenting. But we were on this bridge, and, I mean, we're trying to catch crappie, you know, and I got him a little court. But it's kind of complicated. Yeah, getting them up on the – Well, right. So all of a sudden, a bass hits the little jig.

And I mean bowed up. But he knows how to reel, which is, I mean, he's actually a better fisherman than someone like Zach. Yeah. Which is crazy. Which is not our. Better than me? Well, Zach, you told the story of y'all going out into the wilderness. They didn't take food because they were going to catch their food. Yeah, you caught your two brim and you had five pieces of bread and you.

You basically summoned a miracle to happen, but it just didn't happen. You didn't have it. I did tell that story. You are correct. But I've been on other trips so it didn't happen. He gets the bass, and he got it about halfway up that bridge. That rod was bent over. The line was singing.

And I was like, you want me to help? And he's like, no, no. Do you want to help? No. So he wanted to do it. He wanted to do it, but he finally just got where his arm would not work. And he's like, help, please. That's not great.

He sounds like me going on those deep sea trips. After a while, I'm so exhausted. I'm just like, okay, these deckhands, I'm going to take over because Al's done. I've caught two. I'm done. That was the good. The ugly was five minutes later, I looked up and he's tangled up everywhere in line. We left there with no baits, no courts, line all over the bridge as eye candy.

But we had a big bath. So that was fun. It's been good. Y'all want to get into this text? Yep. All right. So we finished up Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman, which is quite the story. Well, you didn't really. I mean, I don't think you were ever finished with that story. Well, you don't because it's such a good one. Because you know what's something that hit me just before we moved to the next one? It's like.

We had done this on a different podcast, but there's three L's that are highlighted as far as, because Jesus is the image of God. The word became flesh, which is a key phrase to keep in mind before we read this next story, because that really, I think, is a picture of what happened. The word became flesh. What Jesus says represents God and the power of God and the character of God.

But those three L's...

Where God's DNA is revealed, I came up with that because I don't know a better way to say it. Yeah, that's a good way. But we've talked about light. You know, Jesus, he's the light of the world. We talk about, what was the other else? Love. Life. Yeah, love is the one I was going to get to. Yeah. Life, because, I mean, how many times has he mentioned you'll have life, eternal life, life, life, life, as opposed to death?

which is the problem on our earth. It is decaying. Everything dies at some point. And he got into this woman's life to therefore talk about new life. Well, exactly. And then you have love, and you say, well, now John 3, 16, for God so loved the world, which is the first time it's mentioned. But you also see love in action here. I mean, just think about...

Who he chose, where she was from, what this looked like. We went through all that. But really, it is love in action. I mean, while she's just down, you can't go any lower with her shame and what she's done. And here's Jesus offering love. So we didn't talk about that, but...

When you're talking about a love story, real love. Because our definition of love is so limited. And I mean, the Greeks, they had four different ways of defining love. Yeah. Because it's complicated. Well, it's funny you mentioned that. I was thinking at the last event we were at, I went over and I was standing at our book table and people were coming over because they were about to leave. These people are kind of in line. Once a line forms, people get a little impatient. They're trying not to because especially in the setting we were in.

So I'm kind of waiting on Lisa because I don't know how to operate the card reader on the thing and trying to get these books. And I look over to tell her, you know, can you come do these books? And there's a woman just crying to her. And Lisa has her hands on her and she's praying for her.

in this moment. And so I look back at this line of people and say, can y'all just hang on? Cause they're having a love moment over there. And everybody looks over and sees her and everybody just goes to talking to one another. It's like, no, all of a sudden all impatience was gone. Yeah. Because it was a one moment in time. So I think about that in this context, that's exactly what this was. I mean, this was just one woman at a well, but it really speaks to something way bigger, which is kind of what you're just. And I think it sets a precedent that Jesus is after everybody. Yeah.

I mean, he starts off with a woman from Samaria, but you're going to see, you know, through their story, I mean, Gentiles will be shared with. This next story, you have this official, royal official, you know, it's like you go from

a Samaritan woman, a religious leader to a Samaritan woman to some royal official. You're like, what? I mean, we're... And I don't think he's doing that accidentally, that he keeps bouncing back and forth. And I did want to say one other point that when he started off the conversation, he said, you know, if you drink of the water I give you, you will never thirst, which is...

you know he's satisfying in that and then he winds up comes full circle when his disciples came and seem and they're like hey you want something to eat which we talked about it they're still looking at the earthly the physical because you know water and food is essential to stay alive yeah and he's like turning that on its head saying oh i've got food and drink that are way

more satisfying. So he said that with the water you'll never thirst, but then he says about the food when he said in verse 36, even now the reaper draws the wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life. So it's like he's the most satisfying in life and he can take you away from death itself.

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When he gets to John 6, he says, I am the bread that came down from heaven for the life of the world. I give my flesh for the life of the world. I think that John 6 is going to be amazing when we get there. I don't want to get too far ahead of it. We were tracking. I was going to mention this. No, and that's exactly. But by the way, John, I know he was being cared by the Holy Spirit, but John is a brilliant writer.

Because he's so good at introducing themes that he later goes and fleshes out. That's what a good writer does. You read it, and you're like, you see some things that spark your interest, and then you get four chapters over, and you're like, oh, that's where he was going with this. That's why I was promoting The Chosen, that season two, episode one, because that is the hub. It's like, how did he come up with this? They did a whole episode about it, which, by the way, The Chosen, it's out in theaters now, season five. Right.

So go watch that movie and support them. It's funny you mentioned The Chosen because when I look at this chapter four up to where we are today, I see this story told in three acts. So you just kind of view it from an idea if you were going to produce something and how powerful a story, a movie or whatever it would be. And you've got this woman engaged, as Jace was describing. Then you've got the people, his own disciples, that missed the whole point.

which how many times do the people of God miss a moment that God is doing because they're so locked into their little ritual? That's what happened here. And then the third act is the most powerful part of the story because the one single woman who seemed to be –

isolated, had nothing to offer, goes back to the town, and then shows them the way out of everything. I mean, it's like, it's the ultimate story. Well, and we didn't say, but she had had a relationship problem her whole life, it seems. And we didn't make a point of it. But Jesus, I think, what is the word?

prophetically was saying, how about you marry me? That's right. And I'm not talking about anything physical. That's his whole point there. Well, you know who the most disappointed guy in the Samaritan village was? The old boy that she was living with. Oh, yeah. I can almost guarantee you that relationship was over after this. Well, that's interesting because in that season two, they actually addressed that, but they assumed he had...

She had converted him right out the gate. Oh, so maybe that wound up being. Oh, yeah. He's a character. That's what I remember now. He's a funny character. That's right. That's right. I forgot about that. And they just assumed they made things right. And maybe they did. That's a different way of looking at it. Look, they're giving you a picture.

which a lot of people, the religious police who don't like the chosen, they don't like that if something's not in the Bible, you portray it. That you imagine. But they put a disclaimer. It's just like when we study the Bible and you imagine something

the scenarios or what happened it's basically what you're seeing on on film they get the big stuff right yeah and then you think oh we can connect the dot that that's what we are the first time i met him he's on the podcast because he was talking about this this was way back in the beginning so he was talking about the criticism i said well dallas you just need to tell him you got a verse for everything you're doing he looked at it funny he said what is it i said if he's in 320

It's more than you can ask or imagine. I say, you're imagining a lot of stuff, but look, that's what makes it interesting. I mean, like, we've been living for 2,000 years since all this happened. I don't think he's claiming that, hey, this is the scripture. Of course he's not. They put it on the...

They put a disclaimer on there. Yeah, I have thought about that, that the logic of the argument against the chosen, if you took that logic and philosophy, it's called argumentum absurdum, you push it out to the – it's in conclusion. Then what would happen is you could – there's a cricket. You could never –

on anything about the Bible because you just have to read it straightforwardly. You just got to read the scripture. So we're all kind of indulging in trying to make sense of the text. And on the Not Yet Now podcast, we had a guy on the episode we posted last week or a few days ago

Brian Rice, Dr. Brian Rice. And one of the things he said I thought was good, he said when he went to seminary, he had a class and they said, you need to master the text. And he said, what a horrible idea. He said, no, the text needs to master me. The text needs to exegete my life. The text needs to look into me. And I think that's the problem. That's what we're trying to do.

We got cheers there. Yeah, you redeemed your crickets with some cheers. That was a great line. Yeah, it's not that we're— The text masters me. We need the text to master us. Well, it's why when you read verses like, the Word of God is living and active, why is that true?

Yeah. Why is that true? Because it's a person. Which I'll tell you a funny story. A shameless plug again. I was on Chad Wright's podcast, and I talked about this on his podcast. And one of my friends who I really been praying for that would come to know Jesus listened to that podcast. And I'd said something on there that he said, I want to study the Bible with Zach because I'd never heard a Christian say this. But what I said was on the podcast, I said, you can make an idol out of the Bible.

And as shocking as that is, it's true. Jesus testified to it. He said it. You study the scriptures diligently and by them you think you're saved, yet you miss me. And so I think that's the thing that we have to remember in reading the Holy Scriptures is that they point

to a person, you can't worship the sign. The sign is pointing us to a destination, and that destination is the person of Jesus Christ. Yeah. Now, Wade and Jason and I knew some guys one time that basically had the Scripture as the Trinitarian. It was the Yahweh, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and the Scripture. And the Holy Spirit was only active...

if you were engaged in the third part of the Trinity to these people, which was... Did they say it that bluntly? Yes, they did. And they said it so bluntly that they went through their scripture, and every time they marked out where spirit was and wrote in words. Well, there was a guy who memorized the Bible backwards, and everybody was just wowed. They said, whoa, this guy's a genius. And I thought, what an idiot. That was the biggest waste of time in the history of...

You're talking about missing the whole point. If you went back to front, that'd be a bad way to go about it. Yes, it would. You'd be confused. Guy's an idiot. I think Thomas Jefferson did something similar. He cut out a lot of the Bible that had the supernatural Holy Spirit and tried to create a Bible that told the version. Jefferson was great, but he needed Ophiel to sit down with him. I think he was an Epicurean. Yeah, he missed him. Which meant that God...

and was no longer concerned about the matters. All right, Jase, you want to read this? Sure. Yeah, read this next text where we go from here. So where are we at? Start in verse 43. John 4. I'm going to read it off the internet. Okay. All right, so after the two days, so he spent two days there. I mean, it was quite the buzz, and that was coming off this, we know,

This man really is the savior of the world, which is John's whole case, how you view Jesus.

So then verse 44, now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country. So he's heading back to home, by the way, so that's why John says this. And so we're going back to Galilee where now we're going back to where he did the changing the water to the wine. He called Philip and Nathaniel. But most of John is about what happened in Jerusalem, which is unlike the other three gospels. Right.

So then in 45, when he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him, which seems like, let me just stop here, because it seems like, well, I thought... Contradictory. It seems contradictory. And I think that is the point of this story. Yeah. It's because they were welcoming him back for the things that he could do. Exactly. The signs. Right. Rather than...

Like the Samaritan said, this guy's the savior of the world. Because you know, how much had the word gone around about what he did at the wedding? Exactly. I mean, it was like, this guy, you know. Well, and the deal with Nathaniel. He read my mind. He knew what I was thinking. And, you know, all these things. He claims to be Jacob's ladder. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem and the Passover festival, but they also had been there.

Once more, he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. Which is like 18 miles away. I looked it up. Yeah. And I looked up the scholars to see if this was a Jew or a Gentile. And half of them said one thing, half of them said something. I thought the same thing. He was a royal official for sure. But they're not sure if that was in Herod's camp or if he was something else.

So, verse 47, when this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son who was close to death. Verse 48, unless you people see signs and wonders, Jesus told him, you will never believe, which goes in verse

with this idea that they were just looking for the things he could do. So he kind of gave a general thought there. However, watch what happens. The royal official said, sir, come down before my child dies. I mean, there's a child dying here.

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There's your phrase. That's the bumper sticker. Mm-hmm.

Yesterday at one in the afternoon, the fever left him. Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, your son will live. So he and his whole household believed. This was the second sign Jesus performed after coming from Judea to Galilee. Let me just right off the bat say something that I had never realized until this particular study of the text.

This guy, when it says that he took Jesus' word and departed, he really meant it because he waited around for at least a day and a half, if not two days, before he left to go back. Now, you think about this. If you had asked this and you believed that he did it,

The first thing probably one of us is going to do is hightail it back. It was 18 miles away, which they've estimated that as about a six-hour walk. Yeah, there was no buses. There was no... Yeah, two-hour chariot ride. Chariot ride was like Cadillac-ing back in the day. And he probably came in a chariot because this guy was a royal official. But you'd have thought he'd have hightailed it back to check and see, but he didn't. Mm-hmm.

He apparently stayed there. He was there for business probably. He did his business. And then he talks to the guys, and they tell him, but we know a whole day has passed because they said yesterday at 1 o'clock. So to me, it just really struck me as like, no, this guy believed it so strongly. He went about his business and just assumed the kid was good. That's what I was going to say. This is one of the rare times you see that Jesus doesn't say anything about his faith or he didn't say you need to believe in me. You didn't.

You literally saw faith in action. Yeah, that's it. And which is really what our faith should be. Yeah. Move. He said it, and that's it. And I'm taking off, which I think took a tremendous amount of faith. Because imagine what he's actually doing. Some guy is saying that he'll be healed, and you're just going to take him at his word? Right.

And take off 18 miles? Because you remember his first ask was, come to him.

and heal him. So his first assumption was Jesus had to be in the room with him to heal him, lay hands on him, whatever, based on what he had already seen. So he assumed that right off the bat. Jesus was like, all right, your son is healed. I think it's like, I mean, James makes the point very clearly that faith without effort, works, movement is actually not faith. It's dead. But for whatever reason, I think in our

And I think I understand it, but we look back and we want to overreact to maybe a workspace gospel. So we want to remove any type of effort, movement, work, pursuit out of it. But I mean, you just can't separate the two. You really can't. Good point. I think what we're seeing here is that it's always going to... True faith is always going to result in movement. Well, just think, go back to the garden. If Eve would have...

would have trusted what God said. Because you remember the evil one? What the first question was? Did God really say? Did God really say? He said, don't eat of that tree of the knowledge of God. And how many times has temptation been started with that question? I mean, just think about it through the years. Which is our point about the Bible when you read this.

especially the red letters. I mean, I've already compiled. We haven't made this point yet, but we're in chapter four. And just think of the four questions. I think there's four at this point that Jesus has said, if you just took them in each of the contexts, he started off the first red letters in John. What do you seek? If you ask yourself that question as a human,

In light of Jesus. What do you seek? And you remember in John 2, when... Why do you bother me? Why do you involve me? Well, I think involve... Just think, if you were asking me, why do you involve me? It's a very good question. And then, in John 4, to the woman at the well, he said, Will you give me a drink? I mean, this is...

When you start analyzing this, it starts becoming scary for me because I'm like, what do I seek? Why do I involve Jesus? What are my motives? Would I give Jesus a drink? Certainly. I mean, if he came up. And then what was the fourth one? What was the one we just read? Was there a question here? No. No. So that's three. We're at three so far. I have another one that's coming up somewhere.

Oh, I know the one. Yeah, it's in the next. We'll get to that next. When he asked the guy who'd been laying at the pool for 38 years, here's the question. I'll go ahead and give it to you. It's chapter five and verse six. Do you want to get well? Yeah, that's good. Al, we're getting a pretty good sermon here. I'm writing it down. Four questions.

I mean, is this... That would be a great four points over. Do you think John is doing this on purpose? Yes. I mean, if you got up every morning and asked yourself these four questions in the context of reading these stories, and then you apply it to your life, I'm telling you, it'd be life-changing. It would be. So we got the point of it was trusting what he says. So then you get in this idea of...

Are you following Jesus for the signs or are you trusting what he says? Yeah. I think that's the point here. Right. And this is the second sign, and this is a disclaimer. From here on out, John assumes you're going to keep up. Yeah, that you're going to. He doesn't say this is the third time. We'll read the next one.

which I think is interesting. It's kind of from a literary viewpoint. He's like, okay, you got that. Just follow along and you'll see another sign. Well, what are these signs pointing to? Which I'll give you a hint. It just said that the Samaritans were so filled with joy because they had checked Jesus out for themselves and they had concluded that he was the savior of the world. Yeah.

He's the Savior of the world, which the reason I did those questions is you're going to conclude that God wants you to live eternally with him. He wants to dwell with you forever. This is the point. So don't get hung up on all the signs along the way, especially when they're just earthly signs. So I did something interesting. You're going to like this. This has precedent in the Old Testament about signs.

And I found two of the most fascinating signs that are imaginable, and I did not realize they were in the Bible. I would like to read these. And it kind of went in with this idea of...

When Jesus said, I am, when he first introduced that thought here to the woman at the well, when he said, I am. Because she said, oh, when the Messiah comes, he'll explain that. Because she still hadn't got it. Which is why he asked her the question, would you give me a drink? Which, by the way, that's Jesus' ultimate mic drop.

Yeah. I am. We see that throughout the book. So the first precedent I want to go over is in 2 Kings 20. I know I'm springing this on y'all, but Al, you're pretty good at the Old Testament. You'll probably remember this story. So this is Hezekiah. Yep. All right. Remember him well. What was the reference? 2 Kings 20. All right. And we're talking about signs. So watch. In those days, Hezekiah became ill.

And was at the point of death. And look, he was a pretty good king. Yeah, there were only like six. He was one of the good guys. So the prophet Isaiah went to him and said, this is what the Lord says. Put your house in order because you're going to die. You will not recover. That's what it said. It's like, oh, no.

Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord. Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully. He starts giving his pitch with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes. And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the Lord came to him. That's why this is, you see how I got here.

God gave him a word.

Go back and tell Hezekiah, the ruler of my people, this is what the Lord, the God of your father David says. I have heard your prayer and seen your tears. I will heal you. On the third day, ooh, on the third day. So you were supposed to be dead, but on the third day, watch what I'll do, which I just don't believe this is an accident. From now on,

On the third day from now, you will go up to the temple of the Lord. Ooh, another interesting tidbit. I will add 15 years to your life, and I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. So not only will he give him 15 years, he's going to deliver his enemies. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David. Then Isaiah said...

prepare a poultice of figs. They did so and applied it to the bowl. So now you realize why he's going to die. He had a bowl. Had a bowl. And he recovered. So three days later, he goes to the temple, which the temple would be Jesus one day. And three days, remember what he said about the temple? I think that's interesting. They rebuilt it. Yep. Hezekiah had asked Isaiah, now look, here's where we get into the same thing.

What will be the sign that the Lord will heal me and that I will go up to the temple of the Lord on the third day from now? He wanted a sign. Which, look, I'm going to stop here because I don't have time to go through his whole story. But actually, when you go, he gets healed and he gets 15 years. Right. But he didn't do well. You read in 2 Chronicles 32.

He got puffed up with pride. He did something terrible with the Babylonians, you know. And now look, he eventually repented and humbled himself. But he set the stage for them being taken into captivity. Yeah.

You know, later. Exactly. And look, three years after into the 15 years, this is going to get technical, but this is really cool. Because a lot of people, because I started reading a lot of things about this story. I went way down deep in it. And I got on one of these chat boards somewhere where they were discussing this. And they're like, actually, you know, God shouldn't have given him 15 more years. Somebody made this argument. Because three years into the 15, he had a son named Manasseh. Mm-hmm.

who turned out to be terrible. He's one of the worst kings. Evil, one of the worst kings. And so they were making a big deal about, because this was obviously not a believer. Yeah. And then somebody who's been reading his Bible said, well, yeah, but Manasseh is in the genealogy of which would come Joseph.

which became the father figure with Mary. The royal line. Yeah, the royal line. And that worked out pretty good because Jesus came. And it was like, get the cricket button. Yeah, it turns out the plan actually worked. The plan actually worked. But I want to read the sign. So he wants to sign it. And I'm just saying, I do think that that was part of Hezekiah's problem and why he wandered away. Because you think...

God gave you a replacement. Think how many people that if you're dying, you're literally fixed to die and God saved them. And I wanted to tie this into a lot of people when I say, what's your story when I'm studying with them? And they tell sometime that they thought they were going to die and God saved them.

Because they're like, I was healed. And I'm like, well, that's not what changes your life. God's story in Jesus, him dying, being buried, and being raised. So I've had that happen hundreds of times. People's salvation story was that God saved them.

Kind of like Hezekiah. Well, that didn't even work real well for his heart. You would think he would have never walked away, but he did. Read 2 Chronicles 32. What I did find interesting was the actual sign. And God gave him a sign. And here's what it is, verse 9. I did not know this was in the Bible. Isaiah answered, verse 9, This is the Lord's sign to you that the Lord will do what he has promised.

Shall the shadow go forward 10 steps or shall it go back 10 steps? And I'm like, what are we talking about? First, I thought Peter Pan, you know, when his shadow would follow him and then it was like its own entity. I came to find out that they didn't have clocks back then. And they used this shadow of the sun at various places in their house or temple to tell what time it was. So in this case,

Verse 11 explains that. Then the prophet Isaiah called on the Lord, and the Lord made the shadow go back the 10 steps it had gone down on the stairway of Ahaz. Now, that's the end of the story. So look, when you think about the time and all these scholars, I read what they think, and they're like, somehow God made the sun go backwards. It went back in time.

He literally, now he might have done it in the region, or he might have just done it in his house. But that was the sign that he was going to do it. He made time go backwards. Yeah. Which he had done before, way back in Joshua as well. Well, that's the other one I was going to go to. Good, Al. I didn't know that was in the Bible. In Joshua 20 is a similar thing. And boy, you're talking about a story. Yeah.

But there was a battle, and he caused the sun not to go down for 24 hours. And look, one angel killed 185,000 of the enemies of Joshua. Right. It was quite the story. I'm just saying, there are signs, and then there's these signs. Because when you talk about I Am, if you have the power –

to stop time itself or the earth from rotating, or you can make the earth rotate backwards in a limited fashion, or I don't know if the whole thing was spinning backwards. But in the story of Joshua 20, it actually says there'll never be another day like this. Yeah. Yeah. So, which makes sense. And I do think it's interesting, and man, it's probably a lot bigger topic that we can deal with at the end of this podcast. But when you talk about God being...

than time and space, you start to understand and realize how powerful that really is. That he operates with the plan that he had before creation. We read about Ephesians 1, and yet we're all involved in the play as it plays itself out. Because we don't know. What bothers people is, well, why does it matter? If all this stuff, if God knows everything, then why does it matter? But look, Hezekiah, all he knew was the boy was about to kill him. Yeah. And he wanted more time. And

And God said, okay, you're going to get more time. And then he knew how that was going to play out. It's not like he was surprised by Manasseh. Well, exactly. But what I'm saying is my whole point is everybody wants a sign, and they were following him for the signs, which is going to be a common theme that you're going to see the rest of the way. And even people on earth today say, you know, if God just whispered in my ear or if he saved me from this mess, then I would follow him.

But how can you get any more incredible than this? And the humans who saw the sign still struggled. That's why Jesus came to earth. You want to change your life? God in Jesus, the Word becoming flesh and what he did and what he does and what he's doing actively and what he will do.

That's the game changer for your life. It's his story and not you searching for something. Because if I started seeing the sun go backwards or the clock go backwards, literally, you would think in your mind, oh, oh, he's real. He's real. I'm going to follow him.

It doesn't work that way. Which is why Paul gives the way Paul positions against signs. Not that signs are bad, because they're good, because God obviously used it throughout the entire Bible. But Paul in 1 Corinthians, he pits something against the signs. People who, the Jews, he says, demand signs. He says, but you know what we preached?

The crucified Christ. Yeah. And I mean, he didn't just say Christ. He said the crucified Christ. I think what people want out of the signs is that what they're really saying is I want, I want the benefit of God. I want the kingdom without the king, but you can't get the kingdom without the king. And to get the kingdom with the king means you got to live a life that's willing to sacrifice. That's what Christ did. I love it. So we'll, we'll end it here. And my last line will be the light screen.

It's green. It's green. Jayrock is green. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.