Ep 1073 | Phil Reunites with Miss Kay & the Robertsons Cause a Ruckus for the Other Patients
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I am unashamed. What about you? Yeah, we'll break the fourth wall here. And this is so that the key is if you're in the Robertson family,

Which we all are, even though I'm a Dasher. Same thing with Dashers, too, though. We've got the same problem. I am not in the Robertson family. Well, you're married to me, so you are by marriage. One plus one. This is the same point of reference. But the way... The two will become one. See, right now, there was an opening. This will be great. There was an opening right there that if I had taken it, all the negative energy could have shifted to Jill.

She would have been the scapegoat. So there's a, it's called the scapegoat mechanism. Like what we, you do. The key is you just, you cannot allow yourself to be the focal point of the energy of the group.

Because then once it happened, like the last podcast, I became the focal point and then all the negative energy. Because I willed it to happen. It wasn't accidental. You never end up there. Became the focal point when you weeded your wife out. That's right. Amen. Of a major. An ardent Alabama fan. So what I'm doing now is I'm sacrificing myself because I had an opportunity when you said that to Jill, I could have turned on Jill. I don't know if you ought to turn on her or not, but.

You want to try? You want to test it out? I don't. I want to move back into John's church, man. He was following the Holy Spirit. That's what happened. Come on. You said back up. See, y'all do share one thing in your relationship that Missy and I share. And I love it.

I said this one time, and Trent Langhofer, you remember him? Oh, yeah. He's a professional. We'll call him Dr. Langhofer. Or his dad called him Cliffhanger. Yeah, Cliffhanger. Oh, Cliffhanger. Langhofer, Cliffhanger. Funny, actually. But I said, you know, the difference in our relationship and other marriage relationships is because we fight. It's like...

Other married people do. We just have our fights in public. Yeah. Which is, I was serious. That's why Missy and Jill are two of my favorite guests on the Unshamed podcast because I love to nurture that spark. You're very good at it. You bring the best out. Yeah, exactly. Dr. Langhofer brought that out one night because Missy and I were disagreeing about something. But it was a room full of people. And he said, Jace,

Now that is a sign of a very functional great marriage. And I was like, the fact that you're not trying to be something that you're not, you just have your disagreement.

You were comfortable to do it in front of people. I wasn't thinking, oh, people are going to walk away and thought they fight like cats and dogs. I mean, I didn't. We had a disagreement. Now, when I'm saying disagreement, there's no profanity. We just have a difference of opinion.

Yeah. And so we will take a time out. Well, I would say that I'm actually not comfortable with it, but I think Jill's comfortable with it. I've kind of felt uncomfortable. But she'll go there in public if she don't care. Yeah.

When we lived here, I had a house church with Paula and John Godwin, by the way. Two of my favorite people. My favorite, yes. And one of our favorite house churches we've ever done, too. And we got in a big fight Sunday after church about something. I don't remember. Well, she leaves right before house church. And we were newly married. She bolts out. I don't even know where she went. She storms out of the house. And then everyone shows up for house church.

And they show up to what? Probably not a clean house. Not a clean house. I'll tell you what we got in a fight over. I probably asked you to help me.

And you probably were just went to go do some random thing in the yard that didn't need to. He was probably doing some eschatology studies. So I decided, okay, I'll let him run this ship. So I'm in there doing like the whole, I'm doing the lesson and everything. And everyone's like, how so messy? And I was like, I don't know. It's just good. You know, things happen. See, y'all just left it messy. Oh, I just left. Yeah, I left. Well, then Jill walks in.

like during house church, like 25 people. And she's out on hills and it's like clicking through the house. Look, he still remembers. He still remembers the clickety clack of those hills. I was back when I used to wear heels all the time. I mean, I was owning every step. You're representing the rider of the white horse. You know how the horse hooves...

Now you would just slip in nice and quiet. But back in those days, it was clippity-clop. I don't make it known. She made it known. He's been teaching, and then he just stopped. I'm teaching the Word of God, and then my wife comes in there, and I'm like... You should have just repented right there. I was just like... I just stopped. I said, we're in a big fight. But that was like a catalyst for our community because it was like, okay,

Well, married people fight. Yeah. That's just the end. True story. And it's... I will say that's the beauty of a small group setting as opposed to you could walk into an assembly somewhere at a big building and nobody would ever know you're hiding in there. But you can't hide when it's clippity-clop in the kitchen. You can't hide. Oh, we had a big one the other night. And, of course, look, I mean, we have done more hard stuff, which my wife...

moved me one night. Two tears and I usually don't get teared up. I'm not a teary guy. But unless it's about my daughter, I guess. But she's had so many problems and all because I was real tough, you know, until my daughter was born with, you know, cranial facial issues and then I became a basket case.

But usually she had made a statement a couple weeks before, because we have a little toddler. There's a reason people our age don't have little toddlers, because it's difficult. I mean, we're old. He's not. And we need sleep. Yeah. You think you're done with something, and the next thing you know, God says, hang on just a little bit, which is biblical. I mean, there were older people.

couples in the Bible who've had kids. I can think of John the Baptist's parents. Abraham. Yeah. And that's why I was really, I've been real concerned about this venture because if one day I just can't speak, because you remember what happened to, what was John the Baptist's dad? Zachariah. Yeah, Zachariah. Remember, he had a little questioning of God, so then he couldn't speak until he got his heart right.

So, but anyway, so we've been doing a lot of things like that. And then with my parents, I mean, because my wife has been a warrior during this whole process. Yeah, she's been great. Somehow or another, my dad, she's become my dad's favorite because she can cook more recipes that Kay does than I guess everyone else. And so she keeps bringing them up. Well, he's like, no, this is what I'm talking about. He's like, okay.

There's other stuff. It'll kill you. This? Good. Still matters, y'all. No matter where your mind is, food matters. When he sees Missy, no matter what his condition is, he immediately gets up and starts looking for a fork. I kid you not. It's like, forget we bypassed the pleasantries. So we've had all this going on, and what moved me, though, is –

We had had a tough time because we now have Phil and Kay back together. I don't know if we've announced that on the podcast. I don't think so. Yeah, because that's just happened this last week. Oh, what was this, day four? It has been fantastic. Yeah, it was a game changer.

Mom moved in with Dad. Yeah, they went soft, though, Kay. Oh, I know. Well, I was going to bring this up. It's been fantastic, but it has also brought up a new set of challenges. We're too loud. That we'll have to discuss later. We're becoming a problem to the rest of the residents, apparently. And the bottom line is it's a very difficult thing to explain, but my dad's not doing great overall, right?

But, and my mom is not doing great physically. And she has to have pretty much 24-7 healthcare professional. Yeah. But...

So my dad, it's like, but you're helping her morale and she's helping his morale. Right. Because he's been so much calmer since she came back in. And so during this process, we're now able to have visitors, you know. And so we have friend groups. They call them the kingdom, Kay's kingdom, you know, because she had friends visiting her. And then Phil had friends.

His kingdom group, you know, guys coming up there, fixing him fish. But they're in a facility where there are other people. But they have their own little private room. You know, it's great. And so they're helping each other. And so that's been positive. But the challenge has been...

We have so many people coming up there, we're being disruptive. So we'll have to address that later. I've got to tell y'all a little story. So Melissa and I, Zach's sister, went up to visit them yesterday, and they were so cute. It was such a great visit, but...

So Kay, you know, Kay's always had real dark hair, right? She always has her hair done, no matter what. She has her hair done. Well, in all this process, it's been several weeks since she could get her hair done. And so they've been apart. Now they're back together again.

Well, she's had kind of a Cruella de Vil. It's like white. And then it's like, and so there's, we're sitting there talking, talking and every probably 15, 20 minutes, Phil looks up and he'll say,

what's what's k got going on that half devil hair that half devil hair and he i mean in his state he he still notices something's off about it of course k is like well i'm sorry phil i haven't got my hair down yeah you know but cricket they are fighting in public right how often do you do an ad where you're giving something away

Not very often. We're normally asking you to buy something, but in this case, we're saying receive this book right here, When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians, from our friend Todd Dettleton at Voice of the Martyrs. Al, you've got a copy of this book as well.

I do. And what I love about what Todd did was, you know, over 20 years of traveling to these restricted nations is what they're called because, you know, Christians are under duress in all these different places. He tells stories in this devotional about his interactions with these people. And I find them to be super inspiring because I've

I think we think sometimes in terms of persecution is all, well, yeah, that happened way back in the Bible. Yeah. But it happens every single day around the world. And the stories of what people do to defend their faith are powerful. And that's what this book is about. And it's free. As Zach said, it's remarkable stories that help you reflect on your own life. We're very blessed today.

to live in the time and the place that we do, but we got to remember our brothers and sisters around the world. So Voice of the Martyrs, a wonderful organization that's been a blessing to us for many years, is offering this, and you can request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059.

That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed for your free copy of Todd's book. Now, I was there last night for a couple hours with another couple, and we got chastised for being too loud. But Phil said about the same thing to me. He's like, your mama there.

I don't know what's going on with this hair. And I said, well, Phil, I said, that hair was designed by an insect. And he went, what?

I said, yeah, the name of our hairdresser is Cricket. He said, it all makes sense now. I mean, it was hilarious. Which confirms our theory that Jace has dementia as well. He's just gotten used to his. Yeah, you speak dementia. The other funny story, you will appreciate this, talking about food.

It was getting close to lunchtime, and they're thinking about food. And Melissa looked at him and said, are you hungry? And he said, yeah, I think I am. And she said, do you want a steak? And he goes, he whips his head. He said, how did you know? That's his number one request. He loves steak, yeah. And it was so cute. It filled us up.

Yeah. But anyway, I was saying, we're doing all these good things. Everything's going great. Well, you know, there was a big storm this past week. Oh, I know. Y'all wasn't in town. Yeah, but try to fly in that. Yeah, I'm fully aware of the big storm. Tornadoes, right? Oh, terrible. I was driving in it. I wasn't. Oh, yeah. Sorry, Jill. Some people have to drive while the rest of us are driving. Let the man tell his story. There were also flash floods, which is the problem, you know,

My brother goaded me into buying the house where we're at because he's like, hey, I got this dream. You know, we're all be on the neighborhood, you know. And at that time, you know, nobody had any money but him. So he was like, well, buy the house. And if you can't pay for it, you know, come to me, which I would never go to him. But I did think. He never offered me that deal. He offered me that. Well, he knew I wouldn't come ask you. And so I did. Well, I wouldn't either. Yeah.

But it was actually a lot cheaper than I thought, which then I looked at the terrain and I thought, now I realize why this place is so cheap because I'm at the bottom of the hill. Exactly. When the big rain hits, everything goes down to old Jace's place. Down at the bottom. I've had a drainage problem ever since I was there. And so it just started raining, torrentially. And I was like, I'm worried about...

you know, maybe my place flooding. Cause I have a series of drains with little holes and, but you got all this pollen everywhere and the little pollen, the little pine pollen needles that they're everywhere. You're just going to clog it up. So, yeah. So I, and it's only happened once where it was like, it scared me. Did it get in the house? You know, it got right up to the door frames of the outside. Cause my garage is a little bit down.

And so Missy closes the garage door when it's going to rain because she knows that that one time it almost flooded. But I thought, it doesn't matter. It's not like that's 100% seal proof. Because I thought in her mind, she thinks that's the answer. But in my mind, I thought, well, that's not going to work. If those drains get plugged, it's coming under that garage door. It is not 100% seal. But I've never told her that.

I just thought she needs that for her mental well-being so she can sleep. Now, this has come from the guy who fixed the dishwasher by putting it on the center block. Done. And guess what? I don't know why you're laughing. Our bed is on center blocks. Our bed. Yeah, Mr. Motel 6. Al brings up a painful story. But look, you know what the problem with that fix was? Is that you could see the center block. It wasn't.

You know, she didn't thank me for doing it because she didn't like the fact that people would walk in and see a cinder block. It's hard to decorate around that, right? I can't imagine. Why? Well, that was what the argument was over because she wanted to cover it up. And I thought, that's my trophy. Yes. The fact that I made that work with a cinder block.

You did it. You did that. My life is making more sense right now. So guess what? We compromised. She covered it up. But I tell people, I was like, see that dishwasher? There's a cinder block under there that I put. And that's the reason it's functional. It was a balance issue. I'll tell the story of time. Something. So anyway, so we have the little man there. Well, it's Thundern, and he's...

You know, he's waking up. He's scared. You know, so there's drama here. It's not like we're just sitting there watching TV hoping we don't flood. I already have that issue. And I said, I better go check. So I go outside. So out in front of my garage, I have this unique drain system. I'll show you one day. You'll see. There's a lot of holes that could be covered up. And I look, and I mean, I can tell it's plugged.

The pollen, whatever. It's just water is all in my driveway, so it's backing up. So I quickly ran back inside and looked where her car is parked. Well, I just... I mean, I looked for two seconds, and I see water coming in pretty rapidly. And so about that time, she come out. I'm like, we're flooding. And she's like, oh, you mean? I was like... And I said, it's six, eight inches deep. Of course...

I wasn't saying what part was 680. I just threw that number. I think she asked. Because this is what you do. You just throw numbers out. I threw a number out. I get it. Yeah, which you think, why is this a big part of the story? This became the crux of the argument. So I go out there with a broom, a pole. I'm trying with a plunger. I'm outside trying to break this, whatever is backing up the water. It's pouring rain. I'm soaking wet.

And so I finally, the plunger actually worked outside. And the water started falling. I started sweeping the water out. You plunged your drains. I plunged. Why could that have been caught on video? Yeah. Because it was lightning and thundering. It was rainy. But about that time, she comes out to where her car's parked. Because she had some stuff in the carport on the other side where the water had not

come it had just come on one side which made me realize i was like our driveway's not level because the water was filling up over here and she said i thought you said it was six or eight inches deep because i looked down and it's like two two inches on that side i was like does that really matter at this point i mean i but she didn't see all the stuff that happened outside you know

And she's like, well, I mean, you just seem like to me you were exaggerating the problem. Because she's only looking at the carport. This is what Chase does. So that argument lasted a couple of days, you know? Yeah, it was just like, you shouldn't embellish, you know? I was like, I shouldn't have used a number. But I'm thinking you missed the big picture.

Which, look, I've been studying John 6 for a week. I was saying, you missed the big picture. You're looking for a sign. I gave you a sign that it was a... The sign was wrong, and now you've thrown the whole big picture out. You were saying it's time to panic. We got water coming in. It was time to panic. Water's coming in. I have to fix something. It was in a different part of...

of the yard however this was fixing it was fixing to be six or eight inches deep yeah but i shouldn't have said the number she'd never get past it so then i because i didn't tell you what made her so mad i was like well i shouldn't have used a number to someone who's being legalistic that was the wrong statement so now you called her a legalist

Well, because, yeah. Those are fine words. So the problem, this whole thing, is it's all in what your name is.

Silas Merritt is our uncle. Jason Silas is this man. Reed Silas is his son. All prone to massive exaggeration. I will admit that. It's something about the name. By the way, y'all don't do the social media, but I do. And I think that the boys over there may have been offended by that.

conversation we had about the duck call room. Really? Yeah, they put out a little reel on Instagram of Jace basically saying it was a... I forgot how you said it. Something like it was a fine line between a pod... What was it? Oh, I... Yeah, I thought that was funny. It was a funny line. I said it was a fine line between bringing everyone together

you know, under one and then the Tower of Babel. Which may or may not have been called some version of a fun sucker by them. Well, I know who said that. Well, it was... Because Si says that every time I disagree with him. So Si came out swinging, but Martin was like, well, I mean, he's kind of got a point. Yeah.

Thank you, Martin, for being truthful. But I want to go on the record and say I love those guys over at the duck curry. It was fun. I did say, because I was telling you. Nobody asked me if I loved them. I love them. But I'm saying it's 49 minutes of nonsense and one minute of

Yeah, yeah. I would concur. If there's anything, if the Tower of Babel on Earth, it's in that room 20 feet over. I actually like being on it because I was reading through some of the comments on YouTube and one guy said... Yeah, because they think you're smart. Well, no, they were about... They said... The guy said... Zach actually has a fun personality. I just thought he was a punk.

or something like that. I watch them on Unashamed. But they were like, so my personality was like highlighted over there with those guys. Babe, we love you. I love you. I love you too. You've got a good personality. Love is in the air.

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It took two podcasts, but now y'all are back together. We are back together. Thank you for the counseling, Al. You are the most destructive counselors I've ever seen. No, but look, to get to something good, as a counselor told me years ago, to get to a good place, you have to go through conflict to get there. Well, that was my point. Look, we've been rambling a little bit, but my whole point was most marriages that dissolve

They become their own identity. They drift away. They don't have these conversations. They don't have these conflicts. They're not doing it together. They're not doing life together. Well, and that is true. When we are apart, that's when we...

That's when we fight. That's true. That's true. Well, yeah. Like when he leaves you. Yeah, he'll take me. Ow. I mean, ow is like... I feel like this is one of them things that's like, it's kind of like we're joking, but then I feel like we're going to get out of here and this is going to come back to haunt me. And so I'm going to hold you accountable. I'm always in your phone. Just call me when you need me. My point was the marriage is over when one party...

doesn't care. That's it. They don't care to have the value. That's called withdrawal, Jay. If you get over withdrawal, if you had one of those Venn diagrams and you put those circles, withdrawal is the place you get to that you don't want to be. Conflict is a place you're still passionate and working together. Intimacy and conflict together is usually the best. Yeah, it is good to deal with it. Yeah, I mean, and look, and then, I mean, a couple days later, it's like,

well, I got to kiss you goodnight. Let's make, I love you. You know, I mean, you, okay, we, we weathered the storm. Literally. Pun intended. Well,

Well, that's what happens when emotions get up. But was it two inches? Was she right on the depth of the... It was two inches in the carport. But I had just, from everything else I'd seen, that she never saw. I mean, that's what you're going to go back to. We're going to bring the number. I'm just curious. She was right on the driveway. But I wasn't thinking, I mean, on the carport. But I wasn't thinking in those terms because I was like... Yeah.

I need a plunger. You know, it's six, eight inches deep because I was thinking it's just coming up. We're plugged. She was probably thinking you were going to put her car on cinder blocks. Yeah, she never got past the carport. She never went out. That conversation never happened. When we have Missy the next time on Unashamed Podcast, trust me, Unashamed Nation, we will get her side of this story. Do you feel like maybe there could be some truth about her story?

Think about you maybe embellishing. I mean, do you think you might struggle with that? Yeah, I think where it escalated is when I didn't just apologize. I just said I shouldn't have used a numerical description. You legalist. Yeah. And threw in the word legalist somewhere. Because in that moment, my adrenaline was pumping. That's never worked out. At this point now, I'm well. That's like the equivalent to when Zach,

Actually, I probably should not say this on podcast. Go ahead. We can edit it out. It's when Zach does the thing of, what day of the month is it? Oh. He goes there. I may or may not have said that.

I did that same thing early on, but you know what? I said, I've never done that. Yeah, that's not something good to bring up. Zach's been wearing an orange hat ever since. So that's what happens when you go there. Hey, I don't want to get shot, boys. I'm telling you. All right, so we're getting back to John. Yeah, I mean, I just started this conversation. That was a long story.

Well, I'm welcome to unashamed. Yeah, this is what we do. We listen to Jesus rambling. It's like Seinfeld meets a Bible study. A show about nothing meets the word of God. Well, in my simple mind, you know, we have the intelligent mind because that's why Zach really loves the dark call room. He wants to be the most intelligent. Oh, that's exactly why he's showing, showing out. And so I give him that here, but I'm like, I kind of use that as,

a potential fault because if nobody knows what the heck you're saying, why are you talking? Well, people do know what I'm saying, Jace, and they'll tell you that in the comments. Now, Jace is smarter than he tries to play the. Oh, he's like an old Airedale dog. Oh, yeah. Now, I actually had a word I was going to try to use today to impress Zach.

Because this, when you think about all this, what we've been talking about today, which is arguing, which Zach and I are. Masters. Masters. We have a PhD. I love Zach. That's his number one quality I love because I have very few people that I can argue with because people get their feelings hurt or they think I'm mad or they're not looking at the big picture. But Zach, oh, he's...

I know he's never going to disfellowship me from the family because we disagree. So I need those arguments every once in a while. But this basically in John 6 is an argument. Which is one of the reasons why it's a difficult text because he's breaking down every argument through the process. Because trust me, these people were legalists. So the word that, because I heard in all my study, I heard this word used and I had to look it up.

Because they said Jesus was basically given an ontological argument. And I thought, ooh, that sounds great. Now let me go look up ontological. So do you know what that means? I bet Zach knows. Oh, he knows. He loves that one. I didn't know I'd heard it before.

When Zach was describing the Olivet Discourse, he went into the ontological. There is an ontological argument inside of apologetics that's very hard to understand. It's one of the few that I was like, ooh, that hurts my brain to think about it. But it's helpful if you only use one big word per sentence. Yeah.

So for you out there like me, I looked it up, and it was like the relational aspect of who Jesus is. He was representing himself because he's like, well, me and the Father, I'm doing this on the Father's behalf. Well, the Father, that means you're the Son. You're the Son of God. And that was the problem that they weren't comfortable with that because they're like,

Well, you're a human. We know where you're from, which they bring that argument up. Which is why I think he winds up, just a little fast forward to the end, when he says, eat my flesh, drink my blood. And it sounded so crazy, but from his perspective, he was telling them, it's about me.

Oh, he's onto it. It's going back to John 1, 14. Yes. The word became flesh. The same word that was in the beginning was with God and was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him, all things were made. I mean, that's why I'm walking on the water. That's why I'm bringing bread from heaven. I'm creator in a body. Mm-hmm.

I mean, he stood there with loaves and he's breaking them apart and he's giving it to the 12 and they're going to deliver it. And just imagine, it's just piling up underneath. I mean, he's got five finite loaves that he just infinitely fed 10,000 people with and they picked up 12 basketfuls at his feet. I mean, that's the kind of power we're talking about in the moment. Yes. I mean, it's hard to grasp what Jesus is claiming here. But when you think about the word ontology, right?

The other word that you can use is, it's different, but economy. And so when you think about who is God and who is Jesus in God, ontologically, like his nature, his very being, his nature, he is the sovereign God. Yeah. But now inside of that Godhead, he has a, and this is,

This does get controversial in certain circles, but... Don't get controversial. Just deal in the facts. Well, there's just different roles, right? And so, at the very least, we can say that Christ in his incarnated state

in a body, or the Son in the body. Was serving the Father. That's not controversial. That's not controversial. He says it a hundred times. But what gets controversial is, was the Son always in this position eternally? And I think that, well, I won't say what I think here because I don't want to get off track, but I think that what's interesting when you think about what Jesus is establishing himself as here is

He's saying, I'm God, I'm God, that's who I am. And by being God means that he is going to be the provider of all things and all things will originate with him.

All things, every blessing, every revelation, everything originates with God. And the problem that these guys were having is that they just could not quite give him their trust. And they always, give me more signs, give me more signs. Because he was a human. Because he was a human. And I don't think we can blame them necessarily. I mean, look, I said they asked a bunch of dumb questions, but they came from their heritage where there's only one God and we're serving him.

and now there's a human claiming to be God. Well, that goes against... And it shows you their misunderstanding of the Messiah, the whole thing they misunderstood. There was a... There's this interesting thing I've been studying recently about... They were called the Targums, and they basically would take the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture, and they would rewrite it in Aramaic, so that the...

people could understand it and then they would like teach it from the different places in town and different synagogues. And if you go back and read some of those, it's very, very interesting that they said they would read the Old Testament and they said, man, it seems like there's like two Yahwehs

Well, right. And so they're looking at this. Because the Lord said to my Lord. Yeah. Where's that in Psalms? So it's all throughout the scriptures. There's a bunch of scriptures in the Old Testament where you're reading it and Yahweh speaks about himself in the first and third person. So you're like, is there two Yahwehs? It's kind of confusing. So the way that they solved this dilemma, not even knowing about Jesus, is they translated one of those to be the word of Yahweh. And the word of Yahweh translated is...

the logos of Yahweh. Yeah. Find out on my credit card, someone's purchased an Apple computer and it wasn't me. Has that ever happened to y'all? But I really needed it, Zach. I tried to track this down. Okay, good. Somebody stole my identity a few years back and I'm telling you, it threw me into a tailspin. So I took matters into my own hands and I protect my identity now with Identity Guard. Identity Guard

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are the scriptures that testify about me. Where does it say where Moses wrote about me? That's one I was looking for. Skip down to 44. Yeah, 45. But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses on whom your hopes are set. If you believe Moses, you would believe me for he wrote about me. Well, now you're kind of seeing that phrase, I think John did it on purpose, because now they're bringing up Moses

In John 6, and we read this last time, that's where we left off. When they said in verse 30 and 31, so they asked him, what miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? Which he'd already given them the feeding of the 5,000. But think about really what they're saying. This is the equivalent of you going and getting a sign and put it in your vehicle. It's like, I got the sign. And then you're going on your way.

What is the sign pointing to? Yeah. It's what Jesus is trying. The sign is only going to point to me, and I'm saying I am where you need to put your faith and trust in. Yeah, but we want the sign. Yeah, we want the sign, but we also a lot of times want a person because I love what he says. He says Moses, see, that is verse 32. Yeah, he says, Moses.

Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you true bread from heaven. A lot of times we want a person. We want somebody. We want a king. We want a king. Give us a king. But we don't necessarily want the king of kings. We just want someone to admire. But that's another version of a sign, though. The prophets were signs. Well, it is. It's like when he said he had to leave because they were going to make him king by force.

Yeah. Where was that verse at? That was at the very end. But I also think he was saying that too because they were so bound by the law. Moses, they were still bound by the law. That's why they missed Jesus over and over is because they were so...

tuned into the old law, the rituals, that this is the way it's got to be. This is what, you know, that they missed the one coming to fulfill the law. Yeah, I think it's, they say, I've heard it said this way, you want the kingdom without the king, and that's what they wanted. But when you read that verse about demanding a sign,

And the problem is when you follow the signpost instead of the sign giver, then what happens is you will forget. You just will. So there's interesting text in Mark chapter 8. Because think about it. Jesus fed 5,000 people with, what was it, five loaves of bread and two fish. Then in Mark 8, it's recorded that he feeds 4,000 people

And he had, I think, seven loaves of bread that he fed him with. And you go back to the whole thing that happened in Exodus when he had manna dropping out of the sky. I mean, so there's this pattern in Scripture of Jesus always shows up with the bread, right? Always. He always shows up. That's why I asked him the question, where are we going to go buy bread? But you remember, look, in John 4, we haven't brought this up yet. At the end, when it just seems like a throw-in to the Samaritan woman,

When the disciples came from Samaria, they said, Rabbi, eat something. And he said to them, I have food to eat that you know nothing about. You don't know about this food. He was just dropping a little hint on what was about to happen. That's right. Then his disciples said to each other, could someone have brought him some food? I do that like in The Chosen Voice, you know, Big John. Could someone have brought him some food? Yeah.

My food is to do the will of him who sent me and finish his work. Mm.

So that's why, look, he's already dropped you a couple of hints here about his role, as you said. And then even the spirit we didn't talk about is going to have a role of then pointing people to Jesus. And he gets into that, John 14, 15, and 16. I think there's another question that Jesus asked in Mark 8 that ties into this. Because right after the times when he fed them the 5,000, then he fed the 4,000,

Like right after that, in John, when the Pharisees demand a sign, which is the same place we're at here. In John 8, 14, it says they had forgotten to bring bread. They'd only had one loaf with them in the boat. And he cautioned them, saying, watch out, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, of the leaven of Herod. And they began discussing with one another the fact that they had no bread.

Now think about this. It just came out of the scene where Jesus shows up with five loaves of bread. He feeds 5,000 people with seven loaves of bread. With abundant leftover. Then they get on a boat and they're like, whoa, we only got one loaf of bread. We're not going to be able to feed ourselves. And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, why are you discussing the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand bread?

Are your hearts hardened? Having eyes to see and having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember when I broke the five loaves for 5,000? How many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up? They said 12. And

And seven for the 4,000, how many baskets were broken and were taken up? And they said to him, seven. And he said to them, do you not understand? They still didn't get it. And there is something in this too, that those 12 baskets, 12 tribes of Israel. And 12 disciples. The seven baskets. Seven nations. The seven nations of the Gentile territory. Right, right. There's a picture here coming together of,

And there's like so many layers of what's happening here that they don't have a clue. But Jesus is revealing it in himself. And now, because we have the Holy Spirit, Paul says in Ephesians 3, that all of this, this whole crazy thing of Gentile and Jew coming together in one kingdom under the King of Kings, he says that through the church,

manifold wisdom of God would now be made known to the powers and the rulers in these heavenly realms. I want to back up to right before that verse, and I know you said it, verse 11 in Mark 8, where it says the Pharisees came and began to argue with him, seeking for him a sign from heaven to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and

And said, why does this generation seek a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation. And he left them and he got into the boat. That picture of him just sighing deeply, I think of as a parent, just when you're just like, come on, like, why don't they see it? Why don't they? But I don't want to miss that. Why does this generation seek a sign?

I don't want to find myself in that boat. And I think sometimes in 2025, that's where we're at. Where's our sign? What's next? Give us a sign. Give us a sign. What team should I be on? And it's like Jesus is like,

I'm the sign, just who I am, the spirit in you. But signs always point to a person. Have you ever pulled up behind somebody and they've got 17 bumper stickers on the back of their car? It's big in Asheville. And so typically if you're leaning one way or the other on a political bent, this is the board. So you only needed one for me to figure out who the person was driving the car. But with 17, you're...

I got it. I got you. I got what you're trying to say, but the signs are only pointing to the person and what their belief system is. That's exactly what he's trying to tell them here. You keep wanting another bumper sticker. We got it if you figure out who the person is. Or signs point, like road signs point to a location, which is also why we brought up this idea of him repeating himself over and over and over and over. I came from heaven. This came from heaven. The bread came from heaven. This came from heaven. Yeah.

Give, give, give. But we're like, well, when can I go there? And he's like, well, let's just start with receiving what's coming from there. Right, right. Just receive it. Sometimes I think we become so obsessed with the signal and the sign, even that it paralyzes us. Paralyzes. We're waiting for God to tell us what we need to do and what our purpose is. And I think that paralyzes us a lot of times. It's like the people who open the Bible, they're like, okay, I need a sign.

And then they open the Bible and they look down. Where...

There's a dead carcass. There the vultures will gather. Oh, what does this mean? But I've heard this a hundred times. Usually when I say, what's your story? And somebody will say, well, one time I just opened the Bible and I read it. Like, well, the Bible is pointing you to a person. I mean, always start there because people tend to think, oh, let me figure out all the rules. Well, it's the same questions they're asking. What is required?

Yeah. Why is someone asking that? What's the minimum? I'm going to give you the truth about humanity, and that is I'm going to do as least as possible to accomplish the task. For really months, Zach thought he was dropping calls, and he later found out because I told him that I was just hanging up on him.

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P.S. Eliot said that we try to come up with systems so that we don't have to be good. And I think that that's what they're doing here when they say, when he's talking about, he said, for the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. They said to him, sir, give us this bread always. They knew that whatever that, but they didn't know what he was talking about. But the money quote is the next one. Jesus said to them,

I am the bread of life. It's in. Whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never...

I mean, that's the money quote, that he is the bread of life. He's the man of the kingdom. It's like we talked about in the last podcast. Once you understand that, then you're ready for any season. We've been talking about end-of-life stuff because, you know, we're dealing a lot of stuff with mom and dad. But I used to remember all the time when I was with families and we were in end-of-life settings, I always had to tell them, look, this isn't about right and wrong on decisions. This is about living life.

and making decisions. And there's a trust factor. So that's why Paul said, we don't grieve like the rest of men who have no hope. When we understand that heaven has come to earth and the spirit of God lives in us, we're ready for any season. And that means end of life. That means crossing over. That means all of it. We have the same confidence and hope going into every situation. One of the most difficult conversations I have to have with my dad is because in his mind, you know, he's perfectly fine, you know, which, yeah,

Call it a delusion, call it Alzheimer's, whatever. And some days he's better than that. Like yesterday, he was more in tune than I've seen him in a month. And he's like, now, Jase, when are you getting me out of here? So he asked me that. So there's me and Missy and another couple. So everybody kind of like, oh, no, what are you going to say? I said, well, Phil, remember the goal of the last three months was to get you and mom together.

Back together. You're now, and that's why you've been so happy the last three days. And he went, hey, hey, hey. So I was like, now she has to have 24-hour supervision. I was like, and Phil, you need a little help too. And he went, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. But it's like, I just was perfectly honest. I was like, now look, God may just...

Touch mom and touch you and we'll get back going. But for right now, you're doing better together. You're doing better right now than you've done in months. And your body's falling apart, you know? And he's like, yep, you're right. I mean, and I thought in this moment of clarity, he was like,

Because the question was, when am I getting out of here? I was like, let's just focus on, I was like, this is, we're living here. This is fun. Was that not a good meal? He's like, yeah, good time, good time. So, and I think to your point, that's what it was. And then I said, I said, and remember you famously said, hey, I'm eating right and I'm working out. To people who didn't want to think about post-death,

Phil would always ask that question. I've used it a thousand times because it's good because people, they think in their mind, well, I'm eating right and I'm working out. And my dad would say, you'll die healthy. Yeah. Because we think in our minds, you know, oh, somehow I'm not going to have to deal with my impending death. Yeah. And it, you know, I'm not saying you shouldn't eat right and work out, but I am saying don't use that to have a delusion about

That death is not coming. Oh, it's coming. That's why you want to raise your family, your children, your progeny to have this bigger mindset of heaven and earth because they're going to be in that position one day. And the last thing you want to have them doing is questioning every decision they make.

about their parents, about their grandparents. Once you see that bigger picture of who God is, you realize that we go through any season. We do that together by God's Spirit, by the power of God. I want to read this because we're almost out of time and we can talk about it next time. But that's immediately where he goes to when he gets to verse 20 about not only am I

He came to give you life, but life that's eternal. So in verse 20, it says, For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. So now he's making his ontological argument. Yes, to your amazement, he will show him even greater things than these. I mean, he's obviously looking into the future of what spirit-filled people are going to get to experience on earth.

And remember, he also has evidence to this heaven and earth thing. Remember when he prayed in Matthew 16, when he taught him how to pray? Remember when he prayed? He said, I pray that your kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. And he's really explaining that here. In verse 21, it says, For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Moreover, the father judges no one but has entrusted all judgment. Where are you at? Where are you at? I think we're at 521. Yeah. Well, then I'm going to get to 20. Even as the son gives life, whom he is pleased to give it. Yeah, I'm sorry. So then in John 6, look, he does the same basic thing. Yeah. He gets to verse 34 of John 6 and says, Sir, from now on, give us this bread.

And this is the big statement here. And I wanted to show you in John 5, he said the same thing. He's just now doing it in a form of an answer to give us a sign. I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry.

And he who believes in me will never be thirsty, which goes back to John 4. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me. And whoever comes to me, I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven. There it is again. I've come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me.

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. He's going to mention that four times. He goes to the same argument. This is not a new argument, is my point. For my Father's will, and here's just a very profound verse, is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him,

Shall have eternal life, and I'll raise him up at the last day. Sounds a lot like John 3, 16. At this, the Jews began to grumble. You're like, what? I mean, what? This is familiar. What? How could you be grumbling about that? And by the way, one of the other parallel passages to Jesus walking on the water says that the...

The disciples' hearts had been hardened because they didn't understand the sign of the feeding the 5,000, of the bread. So they were having difficulty too, and you're going to see that. Well, yeah, because he's essentially saying you asked for a sign. I gave you the sign, but you saw the sign and still didn't believe. The sign's not going to help you believe. You missed it. The sign was pointing. The sign is pointing to me. I am the fulfillment of this. I'm where the signs are pointing toward.

So he says they're grumbling because he said, I am the bread that came down from heaven. That's what calls the grumbling. And when you look back at what happened with the manna and Moses, guess what?

They grumbled after the manna came from heaven. But now that he was saying, remember when he made the statement, Moses was talking about me? He's wanting them to connect the dots. That bread that came down from heaven, yeah, when we were wandering in the wilderness? That was me. That was me. I'm the ultimate bread that came down from heaven. Remember the water that came out of the rock? That was me. So what they should have said is, God became a man.

Which I've told you, I'm always fascinated. You say that to people in Bible studies, and I've had about two out of the last four Bible studies, they said that. They're like, God became a man?

And I was like, I thought you had studied the Bible. They're like, I have. I was like, you missed that? It's like, came to this planet? Yeah, God came to the planet. And I think that when you read that text, because it can be confusing, I think you have to, again, read it in the flow of redemptive history and the return to Eden and that understanding that nations were created

I mean, they were created by God in Genesis 11. But that's all coming to a close, and he's bringing all the nations back together. Again, referring back to that verse, and Paul talks about this in Ephesians 3. He says the mystery hidden in ages is a mystery. Basically, the Gentiles are being included into salvation now. So when he talks about in John 6, I think this is one of the main—

once he's making that whoever the father gives me, like I'm going to, I'm going to keep them. And, and, and who's he going to give? He's going to give the children of faith to him. It's the show. It's the Romans nine argument. Well, that's what we're going to get into next time. Cause he's going to make the argument. No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I'll raise him up at the last day. So we'll get into how that works.

which some people, I do disagree with what their take on that is, but we'll get into that. Speaking of controversy. Well, we got next. Jill, thank you. It's always a pleasure to have you on Unashamed. Love to be here. Thank you. We'll keep working on your marriage. Thank you.

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