Ep 1076 | Jase Puts a Dog to Sleep Mid-Show & Why Being Offended by Jesus Is Your Problem
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I am unashamed. What about you?

Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm happy to announce today that after some intense counseling last night, Zach and Jill pulled through. They're good. They're back on the podcast. So, you know, after yesterday, Jace, sometimes you have to rip some Band-Aids off to get into where people are. So what was your take on our intense counseling? I was kind of happy because I thought,

I got home yesterday and I told Missy, I was like, oh, we had some fireworks on the podcast. And it turned into a marital counseling thing. And I was like, the biggest takeaway I had is, babe, there's...

There's a way it could be worse for us. See, you're encouraging people. So I thought, and now that we're in detente and Zach and Jill are doing so much better after this morning's coffee at my house, that I would give you a chance to be supportive, Jill. And I'm going out on a limb here because I don't know. But we've had an ongoing...

debate with Zach. And so it's Jason and I against Zach about Zach's smash burgers. About the cheese choice. Yeah. So I want to know, because you're there, you're present, you're a part of this thing. Are you all in on the processed cheese on the smash burgers? Well, I will tell you this. I was anti the processed cheese. No way.

Didn't believe it. Which is where we are. She was an unbeliever. It sounds ridiculous. It really does. But it is amazing. I mean, it tastes amazing. So he won you over with the flavor. But I will say, I have said, I can't fully buy in until you make them both ways.

See, I haven't compared it to... We've got an insider now. One of our listeners is from the Sargento family that makes the cheese. So she heard us having this debate and sent us some cheese that's made like that. You're leaving out the real cheese.

word. She sent us some real cheese. Real cheese. I'd like to call this from a business perspective. Can we just call it the other cheese until they pay? They got to pay. You can't get us free advertisement. I mean, you can't. She went out there and sent us stuff, so she gets a measure. That's right. It basically comes down to this argument. Is the difference in knowing about Jesus or

You can know about cheese, and there are products out there that it looks like cheese. But when you come to know cheese, real cheese, and cheese.

You see where I'm headed with this. Y'all are working for cheese that spoils. No, that's the biblical type. My cheese never, it doesn't go bad. That's already segwayed. It's the same difference in knowing about Jesus and knowing Jesus. I'm not saying that the cheese I use is eternal, but I will tell you, I've never seen. I mean, he loves cheese so much, he wears that orange hat every day. He does.

Yellow, orange. I think it's time to move on. I'll tell you another thing. I was reminded of a verse. I was trying to be supportive. There's a verse in the Bible, you warn a divisive cousin once, then you warn him twice. I think y'all might struggle with

the main device. I'm just saying. I told you, I was trying to bring you closer. I'm assuming. No, you were, no, what you were doing was, I had flashbacks of you being the puppet master when we were all kids orchestrating chaos, uh,

For your own sadistic pleasure, Al. You're right. I do have, there is something there that even in my older years, I still enjoy watching. I mean, the conversation even like last night just kept, like we kept going, like, Al, be out of it. And then Al would drop a nugget. When he would get bored, he would drop a nugget. And Jill would just bite every time. Yeah, Zach told me, he did tell me this morning, I need to settle down a little bit.

Well, we enjoy having you on, Jim. And for this discussion especially, Zach sort of went into the segue. Well, John Six, that's never been very divisive, so this is a great easy passage. John Six has been quite the study. I actually didn't study last night because my brain was hurting from doing the podcast with you yesterday. Yeah.

And we had a lot of people in our studio yesterday, too. So it was like we were performing in front of a live audience. We didn't talk about that, but we had seven people and a dog. Yeah. And look, I just want to say this. About halfway through the last podcast we did, I heard this sound, and I thought, wow.

There's one of these guys who are snoring during our podcast. I was wondering if it showed up. Could people hear it? No, the audience couldn't hear it. I could hear it through my house. I could hear it. And so I didn't want to look because I thought, are we that boring? I just didn't want to look, but it kept getting louder and louder. And finally I said, I've got to find who's snoring. What?

So when I look, then I realize it's the dog. We literally put the dog to sleep, which made me realize this dog doesn't have a demon or anything. It's just perfectly comfortable. It's being a dog. So yeah, there was a couple from Arizona that I met at church, and they were here passing through him.

Their dog, they named after Sadie, our Sadie, because the dog's name is Sadie. I think it's like one of these. It's a service dog. Service dog, yeah. So you can't critique it at all. No. If you're a service dog, that's like you can't say, I mean, that is like. That's right.

status there. They were the sweetest couple, though. They were fantastic. I got to talk with them before they left. You prayed with them, too. I did. I got to pray with them. They were precious. But they listened from the very beginning. They're OG. They're OG. They are original, unashamed listeners and just precious people. He told me when he met you, Jace, at church, he said, I met Jace, but I was so starstruck I couldn't speak. Oh.

I remember the encounter. I walked up. I mean, they were just standing there. We kind of had a nod, a nod, and it started getting awkward. He couldn't speak. I said, I'm Jace, and they nodded. And I thought, okay. Okay.

Welcome to Louisiana. And then I said, I need to ask them something to get them to speak. And so I said, where are you from? And one of them said, Arizona. That's why I said when I saw him, which was surprising to me because I'd slept since then. You remember. I walked in, I said, Arizona. Because that's the only word they said. So it was an awkward encounter, but I didn't. Well, they're listening, so we're glad you guys are here. It actually helps to have a...

little studio audience. I feel like you kind of figured it out. It could have gotten much worse had we not had the studio audience. Oh, that's right, because y'all knew you were in front of it. That's right. I had to behave. Hold it back a little bit. And then we had California. So we had California and Arizona. We're trying to bring the nations together. That'll preach there. That'll preach.

I'm considering California its own nation. I'm actually doing an event there. I'll give you details later. I get a laugh every time, wherever I'm at, when I always say, you know, we parachute in behind enemy lines to blue states, and everybody laughs. Even if I'm in a blue state, I say that, and they laugh because it's funny. You know, I'm just making a joke. Yeah. Well, Al, you brought to my attention that we had left a cliffhanger. Yeah. The still tottering cliffhanger.

on the cliff, many podcasts. Zach said, I take copious notes. So I left a note for last two podcasts, but we just, Jill and Zach's marital problems. We got into all that. And so it totally threw me off and I missed it because you, you took us to podcast three podcasts ago. Yeah.

to Matthew 6, which was the prayer when Jesus was teaching the disciples. And then we ran out of time. Yeah, and you just introduced the thought, give us this day our daily bread. Because we're talking about bread in John 6. We're talking about bread in John 6. Well, what fascinated me... And I know some of our listeners are like, Jase, you never tied that point on. The cliffhanger was...

And he makes a statement. Because look, Al, I told you when you brought this up before we started that I forgot the cliffhanger moment.

Which is bad when he leads us to a cliffhanger and then you forget what you were going to tell us. This is like watching one of those old soap operas that my grandma used to watch. You know what she would call them? She said, I'm going to watch my stories. Yeah. Then you forget what the payoff was. It was more a kind of Bible nerd discovery.

And what I mean by that is when you start studying this intensely and looking at the original language, sometimes you stumble upon something that you're kind of like, hmm. So when he prayed, so this is Matthew 6, he said, this then is how you should pray. Our Father in heaven.

Hallowed be your name. And this prayer kind of has a little heaven-earth thread line, which I brought that up the last podcast. Yeah, we talked about that. John 3, you can only receive what is from heaven. Ten times in John 6, he's like, you need to receive the gift that's come from heaven. And they're like, well, what is the gift?

was himself. I'm here on behalf of my father. It's literally the gift that keeps on giving to your point about the verb. Maybe it's just ahead of every decade, you kind of begin to look at your life and realize there's more behind you than in front of you. And what I realized is at 60, I need to do something about my weight, but I need some help because what I was doing on my own was not working.

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That's 864-644-1900. Tell them that Al said you. And so when you read back to the prayer of Matthew 6, when he says, Your kingdom come, your will be done. Well, here's this phrase again. On earth as it is in heaven. And there's a lot of religious people that are viewing this as a future occurrence. Yeah, waiting. Still waiting. And so...

But you start thinking, well, Jesus came to earth. Well, where did he come from? He's making the point, I came from heaven. Remember when he was before Pilate? He was like, my kingdom is not from here. And so you start reading this and you start thinking, I think Jesus came for this earth, from heaven. And so he says that, but then he says this phrase, give us today our daily bread.

Bread, which doesn't look like a strange statement, but that word daily is the only time it's used in the New Testament. Whatever that word is, I'm terrible at pronouncing Greek word, but you can look it up. And to do that, I've told you many times. Yeah, just put in Matthew 6, 11. Maybe I should do that.

While we're doing it, which is a good Bible study tool. It's a great tool. And anybody can do it. And it just puts the Greek. And by the way, the words are all, it doesn't read like English, so it's kind of weird when you're reading. So I'm going to put Matthew 6, 11, Greek lexicon. The number one thing that comes up, the top search, is the Bible hub that you said. Right.

So it says, give us this day our daily bread. So if it breaks down the word in the Greek words, to give today for the coming day or for substance, which is that our daily, it's basically existing. So I'm going to click on that. It's number 1967, our daily. And

It's mentioned one time, but it's also mentioned in Luke's telling of the same prayer. So Luke 11, 3 and Matthew 6, 11.

That's it. So I started, I'm like, what does this word mean? Anytime you see, that is right, anytime you find that a word appears only once in one context, it's always intriguing because it's hard to compare it because usually you go to your other places and you can kind of figure out what exactly the writer was meant. But when it's only one, you're like, okay, this means something unique to this situation. So the word definitions, though, are fascinating. It's like, what is happening here?

but also what is coming. And so, you know, what... That sounds a lot like the two stages of the kingdom, right? So the cliffhanger was it makes sense when you hear Jesus say, I am the bread of life.

which is a present, past, and future phrase. So that was the cliffhanger I wanted to... It's a lot deeper prayer because you're praying to the I am, who is the sustainer. It's not just, I hope I get a meal today. So Ty in verse is like, it immediately makes you think Revelation 1. He's like, I was, I am, and I am to come. Yeah.

You know, those kind of phrases Jesus makes, I'm the Alpha, the Omega. What he sees I am is he is inside of time and outside of time. Outside of time, that's right. And it's just like... But I think that's the trick. That's why it helped me understand John 6.

Because I thought, well, he gave a preview in that prayer of what, because their hearts were hard. I think that's in the Matthew version of the feeding of the 5,000. It throws that phrase in. It's like they couldn't get it.

And I was uncomfortable when I first read this as a new Christian because I'm like, what's he talking about? We got to eat his flesh and drink his blood? I was reading the verse like literally. And I thought, why would he be making a statement like that? Then I realized that I'm taking the side

of the people he's arguing with. You were seeing it the way they were seeing it. Which is why I came up with that question being so profound. I'm like, if I'm being offended by something that I'm reading that Jesus is saying, the problem is probably me. So maybe I need to dig a little deeper. So I thought that was helpful.

And that's just a—I'm scratching the hem of that cliffhanger. But it was a profound thing. If you want something to really sustain you or you want to truly survive, one of my dad's friends used to say that every time we'd say, how you doing? And he had kind of gone the celebrate recovery route. So his radical life outside of Jesus was pretty much with the same—

Velocity, I guess, is coming to Christ. But every time I'd ask him how he was doing, he'd say, I'm just trying to survive. Which we always laughed. But really, when you start reading this, I mean, Jesus is survival. You're not at threat to lose anything inside of Jesus. Now I look back on the statement thinking...

That's a little low. Well, you go from surviving to thriving. In Christ, it's, I mean, the...

the promise is you will have life and have it abundantly. So it's not that we're just trying to survive. Although it feels like that at times, because you read Hebrews 11, and you got the heroes of the faith, and it's kind of all these stories of how they suffered intense persecution. Some were sawed in two. They were sewn up in the sheep's gamut. They were fiercely persecuted.

And the Hebrew writer says that they didn't receive the promise. They will receive it with us together. So there is this idea. There are times in life where it may not feel like you're thriving. But I think that what is actually happening, though, is as Jill, I think you said this in the last podcast, that even in those times,

God is still present. And so we hang on to the, to the, he is transforming us into some new creation, which I think is the, the whole main point of John six is that he's ushering in the new creation. So he's like, as you mentioned, 10 times, heaven is coming to earth, which mirrors the prayer. When Jesus says, when he prays, what does he say that your will be done? Where?

On earth. Like what? Just like it is in heaven. So what does that mean? Heaven and earth coming together. And so where this all kind of fits into what we've talked about a lot is the place where that happens in the Old Testament, where heaven and earth come together, where is it?

It's the temple. So the whole thing that's still like this new, this temple language, even in John 6, you're seeing this temple language. And I think there's kind of controversy around John 6 sometimes because there's some phrases in here that Jesus says that I think are, I don't think they're very difficult to understand, but they get into big theological debates about it, and I don't think it's necessary.

But he was, you think about it, Zach, God was already showing the early forefathers of Judaism before there was a nation and before there was a temple by establishing a tabernacle that wherever you go, I'm there.

Which was the whole point of the manna and all the other stuff was like, you're looking at what you're picking up and putting in the basket, but you're not looking at the one who's raining it from heaven. It's easy to miss that, which is right in front of you, which is why I'm glad Jason went back to this text because I've missed it before. I've looked at that as always like, well, yeah,

you know, God's concerned about our daily sustenance. And again, doing just what they were doing, putting it only in the context of what I'm physically eating. If you think about it, that doesn't even work in the context. You know Jesus meant more because you don't have to eat every day. Mm-hmm.

We know we can go days without eating. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. We're not thinking big enough. That was my cliffhanging moment that Jesus would later kind of throw bread under the bus. Which is interesting when he goes out and doesn't eat for 40 days.

And then Satan shows up, and the first thing he says is, oh, you look like you're hungry. Why don't you turn these stones into bread? And he says, hey, the bread of life, you know, the words of God is all I need. That's where he went. What does he say? Man doesn't live on bread alone. Which is interesting, that phrase, that Old Testament scripture that he quotes, because he doesn't say that man doesn't live on bread.

He said he doesn't live on bread alone, so he doesn't diminish the physical world. That's the point that I think is so interesting about John 6. He's not diminishing

Right. He's not saying that the bread doesn't matter, physical bread doesn't matter. He created it. Well, he's to your point about the temple. He's literally bringing heaven to earth. You talked about the temple, but think about that. When they had the temples and the tent of meeting with Moses, only the high priest could go in there. It was only the holy of holies, right? Right, yeah. That was...

And he had to have a rope tied on him. That's right. But what he was initiating here, and it's basically this idea of I'm coming and anyone can now come to me. That whole protective mode where just the high priest or just the... Well, that's the debate, right? I mean, the debate is Jesus saying, because he says in here that all who the Father gives him will come.

And he won't lose any of them. And he also says that they can only come if the Father draws them to come. And so there's a big debate around that, but I don't think it's complicated, really. I think the key to John 6 is kind of the key to the whole Bible, is that all things originate with God. ♪

I got some good news and bad news, guys. The good news is we're past April 15th, which is the tax deadline. The bad news is you may have forgotten to file your taxes. Are you guys good to go? Oh, I'm good to go. But I saw an interesting video that went viral, Zach. It was a family playing Monopoly. And a little kid, I guess, had to pay taxes in the Monopoly game. And he started crying. Yeah.

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That's 1-800-958-1000. Or visit TNUSA.com slash unashamed. That's TNUSA.com slash unashamed. I mean, Jesus is right. I'm not going to come to him. And later on in the gospel, John, he says about the coming of the Holy Spirit that he convicts the world of their sin. And he also convicts us about righteousness and judgment.

And what I think he means by that is I'm not going to, I'm not walking around in the forest as an explorer and I'm going to somehow discover God. That's not how this works. So God breaks into reality and he reveals himself to us. So we would all agree with that, right? I mean, like that's not a, that's not a debatable thing. And God is not, if I, if I come to him in faith, right?

and I'm under covenant with him, he's not going to forget, oh, where does that go? I lost him. I mean, he's going to keep us, right? Now, that doesn't mean that I can't say I'm done with you. Right. Yeah. I mean, that— I think that's where you'll get the disagreement, because some people, they don't think people do that. They don't say, I'm done. Yeah.

So, which they get in, I think they use some of the verses in John 6 to get there, which, I mean, we're eventually going to have to just read it. Well, here's what I love about the question. You mentioned this started with a question. When Jesus asked Philip, where are we going to find...

enough bread to feed these people. Remember it said he was testing because he knew what he had in mind. And it wasn't just that he was about to do this miracle and feed them to what you were saying, but he knew he was going to explain to them beyond a meal what

what he was about. And that's what Jesus always does. In the moment of what we learn when God breaks through, as you described it, there's always something for us to learn about him. And so that's, let's face it, that's the life-changing moments for all of us. And I hear it all the time about the podcast. I told you guys, I heard it this last weekend. I heard three people come and say, when God used you guys to break through into my heart, mind, and spirit...

I saw something different. And it wasn't because of us. It was because we introduced him to what Jesus was like. And the counter. Oh, go ahead. And the Holy Spirit is the one, the agent of the Trinity who's doing that work. Exactly. Like, it works to people, but I mean, he has to illuminate my heart for me to see anything. Well, I was going to say, the counter is also, like, Jesus is always showing us more. It starts with this little story, this little idea, but it's always so much bigger. Yeah.

And Satan operates in the mode of get them to focus on the little detail that makes them feel upset or that makes them feel shame or makes them feel like maybe their authority is going to be questioned. That's how he works. Get us to focus on the thing that is not even the thing, which is what they were doing, asking the questions. But we do that, right? Oh, exactly. When the Holy Spirit reveals something to us that we're like, I don't know if I want to see that about myself.

I don't know if I want to see that maybe I'm struggling with jealousy because Zach's at the final four game. Now we're getting somewhere. Now the Holy Spirit just broke through. I don't want to see that. I can use that because I have struggled with jealousy before in my life. But no woman wants to see that in herself. That's the ick. We'll say things like, well, I mean, I struggle with things that are still good. Nobody wants to see the yuck. And so if Satan can...

keep us from seeing the big picture that God's trying to reveal to us through the Spirit and focus on some minute, oh, well, you must not love me because you didn't invite me, whatever the thing is, then he's won because we're missing it. We're missing it. Oh, I agree. And somebody that I've been reading, it may have been Swindoll, in this study said something really interesting. They said, what is the difference? Because at the end of this text in chapter 6,

A bunch of people are going to part ways over all this, by the way. A bunch of them that have been following him around are going to leave. Too much. They're done. That was too far, Jesus. Exactly. So he made the point, he said, what's the difference between them and the 12? Because the 12 was having a hard time grasping this too, right? Because he kind of got in their kitchen too. He said the difference is they still believed in him. Yeah. Yeah.

But the other ones ultimately didn't. And that's the difference. So if you put that on us, you say, what's the difference in us and someone that says, you know what, that's just too far. That's a bridge too far for me. I still believe in him. Even if I'm struggling with something and trying to figure it out, the difference is I still believe in him whether I'm getting it worked out or not. That's what discipleship is all about. I think it comes down to just us having a hard time realizing that God is using us

people, despite their flaws, to show that he does reveal himself on the earth. I mean, last night I saw there was, you know, TV. Let's face it. Most of it is junk. And all of a sudden, old Tebow was doing a commercial. So I stopped what I was doing. I actually didn't even have the volume on. The TV was just background. I turned it up.

And I only saw it once, but it was basically he was showing like people in pain and kids that had some form of, you know, suffering that was obvious. And he was like, the creator of the universe, you know, he uses people. And if you realize that you've been sent people

from God with a purpose, you'll run these people in need. It was just like, join us. You're like, let's go. Let's go. Yeah. Because I thought that, because people's big question is, well, how come there's so much suffering in the world if there's a God? And, and,

There's no God. Look at what's happening. And well, here was a guy who used to play football for Florida using this platform saying, yeah, that's why we're here. God is intervening. Not only did he send Jesus, he's not oblivious of suffering. He entered it.

As a man and participated in it. And conquered it. He entered it and he wants us to know that. That's where I was going. And passed the test. Well, when you kind of look at the Old Testament history, what he's trying to get them to bridge the gap is, look, you see, there was a bunch of shadows that was predicting me coming here. And you start thinking about Moses and Noah and Abraham and even Job and

You have this one person that God has chosen to reveal a way to survive and have hope and promise. And even though all of them eventually didn't pass the test, they either did something really stupid that you're like, boy, they did something great, and then they did something stupid, or they died. Like Job, I mean, eventually he got...

all his blessings back, but at the end of the day, he died. And that was it. And it moved on. And he still lost all his kids. But you see now Jesus, and it makes me think of that verse in 2 Corinthians 5 when it says, for when he died, Jesus all died. He basically made God through the one, chosen one, his own son, allowed everybody to die to their old self and

By him dying for forgiveness. Because he passed the test, which we just mentioned, the temptation by the evil one. Well, he passed that test. Every other person that was a human failed that test at some point. Yeah.

And so you're thinking, okay, well, let's give him an award, a ceremony. And no, he winds up dying. So the rest of us could die to our old selves and live. I mean, that's what 2 Corinthians basically 5 says. And then he now uses us as ambassadors for him, which is why we're running to the pains and the problems and the suffering and suffering.

So, and you know, you say, well, you're not doing the miracles that he was doing because that was a sign to show who he is. The crazy thing about the signs though, is Jesus says this when they, cause they, they, they, they had mentioned a sign. We mentioned that last podcast that we had manna dropping out of the sky. And Jesus is like, yeah, but that didn't come from Moses. I mean, I mean, and it goes back. And if you go back to John five, he says, for, if you believe Moses, you,

You would have believed me for he wrote about me. And so the point is he's making John five, which he's coming to kind of this, to this climax in John six is, is you never really believed.

any of the signs. You never believed them, really. He said, because they were all pointing to me. So if you think about, there's a term, if you're Catholic or Lutheran, you've heard this term, the Eucharist, right? And for something to be, mainly the Eucharist means

We call it the Lord's Supper in the church that we grew up in. Some churches call it the communion, the Lord's Supper, the Eucharist, but it's the bread and the wine that we do. We do it every Sunday. Or the juice and crackers. Or the juice and crackers, depending on who you are, right? But what is that? Because that's what's happening here in John 6. He's really laying out the case for the Eucharist. But what he's actually saying is that...

that man is, all men are Eucharistic. And what that means is, is to be a, to be a Eucharistic is we, we take the elements and,

and we ingest the elements, and then those elements are then transformed back into something. So think about when you eat. When you eat food, it goes into your body, and what does it become? Your body. I mean, you're on the... Or less of it. I was thinking of what comes out. Yeah, me too. It also produces some waste. It does produce some waste, but you transform what you ingest, and it becomes you in the end.

So we're celebrating what we call the Holy Season, which is a time we really reflect on Jesus.

why he came to earth, his resurrection. And it's also a time to reflect on the greatest creation of all, and that's us. I mean, God made us. In Psalms, it tells us that he knit us together in our mother's womb. He saw our unformed body. So, Jason, you think about it. I mean, we are one of the greatest gifts that God's ever brought into creation. Yeah, we're...

The image of God. We're supposed to be reflecting God's presence. You know, when we talk about ministries that matter, obviously ministries that matter for life are one of the most important. And our good friends at Preborn Ministries want to remind us that we're made in the image of God. And that's what they're there to do. Protect life.

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If you go back to Genesis 1, 2, and 3, the original Genesis, and then what I think he's doing here is a new Genesis. The original Genesis is that man was Eucharistic first and foremost, that he was created, and God said, hey, you can have any tree,

In this garden, you could eat of it. And when you eat of it, you're going to eat it. You're dining with me because I'm giving you this as a gift. So the original creation, the goal of humanity when God created it is I've created this world for...

for you to dine with me. And so when man would eat, he would be eating in communion with God and then obviously with... And one of the trees that he was eating from provided something that he ingested that then allowed him to live forever. Yeah, you know exactly. No, that's right. You know the song we used to sing, every blessing you pour out

I turn back to praise. Every blessing you pour out, I turn back to praise. We done broke out to worship. But that's the song that they were singing in the garden. They were ingesting every blessing, and then that would come back out into praise and thankfulness to God. But there was this one tree that he said, don't eat that tree. And I think it's wrong for us to understand that as God putting an arbitrary tree

to say, oh, we got to have a test for the humans. So this is the test tree over here because we got to have the option. I don't think that's what it was. I think that tree represents to dine alone, to eat the tree for the fruit, for the sake of the fruit. John Piper, he says a desire becomes idolatrous

when it turns in on itself, when it terminates on itself. That's what that tree was. It's like, I'm going to eat this just for the sake of the fruit. It was good and pleasing to the eye. That's why they hate it. But it was to dine without God. I think it's a good point. But I do think that there's nothing wrong with the point of, are you going to trust what God said?

or you want to go out on your own. I mean, I agree, but they were also, it came down to that. Belief. Do you believe? But believe what? Can I read from John 6? Yeah, please. It's this verse. I think, you know, you're talking about, well,

Well, who's in, who's out, how are they getting there, all the things. And sometimes to me, verse 40 is the verse that we should probably focus more on because it says, for this is the will of my father that everyone who looks on the son and believes in him should have eternal life. And I will raise him up on the last day.

That's the verse right after the one that talks about, I won't lose any. And let me, let me add to that because when he, when he says that everyone who looks on the sun and believes in him should have eternal life, then you have to go to John 17, three.

Because he defines eternal life as communion with him. So now we're back in the garden from the tree of life. I mean, that's the point. So it's like all these rivers and these veins, the way I would imagine. There's all these veins, but they're all going to the same center heart, which is the heart of God. It's communion with God. So the point that he's making in John 6 is he's saying that, no, I'm reestablishing the Eucharist.

But this time, you got to understand, we're ingesting Christ. We're actually eating the flesh of Christ and drinking his blood. That sounds like cannibalism. No, you're missing the point. What he's saying is to commune with, to ingest Christ is to ultimately become, or to be conformed into the image of Christ. And that's the- Which is Romans 8. Romans 8. Yeah. Which is how you-

I'm glad you brought this up because I think when you brought up Hebrews 11 earlier, that really explains it to me the best. Somebody asked me one time in a Q&A after I had spoken, did Jesus time travel? And I was like, can you be more specific? But it was basically in this previous story that we read when they were in the boat. And it says,

Immediately it reached its destination after he walked on the water. Have you ever thought about that? Nobody ever talks about it because it seems weird. It's kind of like when Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, he shared about Jesus from Isaiah. He was reading it, and he taught him about Jesus. Then he's like, stop the chariot. They found some water out in the middle of nowhere, baptized him.

baptized him, and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing. And then it says Philip was basically teletransported to somewhere else. It's like, whoa, what was that? Was that time travel? So that was the basic part of the question. I'm just giving you the context because I think it's an interesting thought. Where I went to answer the question was Hebrews 11. So I'll go through all of the Moses, Abraham, kind of what Jesus is doing here,

Remember, Moses wrote about me, but you're not believing that. And then he gets to the last verse, and I'm going to tie this in with what Jill just said. And then it says in verse, what is it, 39? Yeah, the last verse. These were all commended for their faith, which what is faith?

Trust and believing and being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This trusting. They were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that they only together with us would be made perfect. And I was like, the time travel thing was Jesus is God's grace through Jesus. Right.

Went backwards and forwards, which I was trying to be kind of coy, I guess. Just saying, look, what Jesus did on the cross and the resurrection, that saved people before, presently, and after. It was like a time travel moment, which is maybe why we count time.

Right, right.

He's referring to present form as in, oh, they're not dead. I mean, even though they're dead, the past. Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily untangles, which you mentioned about the evil one using that against us. And let us run with perseverance, the race marked out for us. And let us fix our eyes on Jesus. Mm-hmm.

which is what this is really being made in the image of him, looking at him saying, oh, this is the gift from heaven for everyone before, during, and after that we'll be. I mean, I think that's kind of the main point, which is why you're going back to the garden, and I agree. I really think Jesus on the cross, which was made from a tree,

was actually the new creation symbolic of the choice of, look at this tree of life. I mean, the tree of Jesus's death actually became the tree of life once again, that would be eternal. Well, and we mentioned earlier that Jesus, you know, you think about the garden and the kind of sort of idyllic setup there. And then you see Jesus come along. And before he ever started his ministry,

He goes out after that moment he has where, you know, he's baptized and, you know, you see the spirit, you see all this stuff happens. He didn't go to a garden. He goes to the wilderness. Right, right. And for 40 days, he denies himself that which we use for sustenance. And guess what happens? He gets hit with the same spill that Eve and Adam did way back in the garden. Here's the evil one making the same pitch. Mm-hmm.

in three different ways, but instead of it being a tree and a fruit, it's just direct. And what is his answer every time? No, God. Well, that's why I'm making that illustration about the cross. That is the fruit that God is offering on a tree, which is his son. And you eat of that. It's like a return to the tree of life that was keeping them alive.

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And the way that that plays out is that as we ingest Christ, as we eat and consume Christ, then that blessing is transformed. Mm-hmm.

back into thankfulness and praise and adoration for him. And I think that that's the part that we experience. That's the now, and it's the not yet. I actually have my Bible, Jace. It's so funny you read that Hebrews 1139. And when you were reading it, I was thinking that. I actually had this note written in my Bible, and this is my note around Hebrews 1139, which it reads, and all these things...

I'm sorry, and all these though commended through their faith, all the heroes of the faith, did not receive what was promised since God has provided something better for us that apart from us, they should not be made perfect. So we'll do this together. And the note I have in my Bible is, I call it the surpassing of the threshold of God's kingdom glory. This is the already not yet, more specifically the not yet that will be realized in the kingdom to come.

So we're hanging on to that. And so when you move on to that very next verse, it gives us the motivation. It actually gives us the motivation for hanging on when it gives us Christ as the identity. He says,

And sin, which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith. And here's the part that I want to finish with. Who for the joy...

For what? For the joy. Who for the joy. What was the motivation? For the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. So Jesus suffered on the cross. He said, what was his motivation? There was a joy that was set before Christ that was his motivation for the endurance of suffering on the cross. He said, so what should our motivation be for suffering?

for the joy that's set before us. Well, what is that joy? And that joy is that we are going to be, like, we are going to be one with God. We are one with God because of what's called the finished work of Christ and what he did on the cross.

Christ had that in mind for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. That's the joy. He had something in mind. What did he have in mind? Union with his creation. That's Genesis. Dwelling with his people. Dwelling with his people. It's, it's Edenic language. It is the garden of Eden all over. He said, I'm going back. I'm going to accomplish what they could not accomplish in the garden, what they ruined in the garden.

I'm going to accomplish it on the cross. And to try to live life outside of the presence of God.

That is hell. I think that is what to, to, to try to, to orchestrate your life without the bread of life, without his presence. That is hell. Yeah. That's what I think. And I was thinking of Moses. I think Moses got that. It's interesting how many times in the new Testament refers to Moses. One of my favorite encounters with Moses and the Lord is in Exodus 33, um,

This is right after, you know, the Israelites messed it up and he came down with the Ten Commandments. They had screwed it up. He breaks them. And so now the Lord's telling him to leave Mount Sinai. We're going to do something different. I'm going to initiate something new. And so Moses is worried about leaving. And he says, um,

Now, therefore, if I, this is Exodus 33 verse 13. Now, therefore, if I found favor in your sight, please show me now your ways that I may know you in order to find favor in your sight. Consider too that this nation is your people. And he said, my presence will go with you and I will give you rest. And he said to him, if your presence will not go with me, do not bring us up from here. For how shall it be known that I found favor in your sight?

I and your people. Is it not in your going with us so that we are distinct?

I and your people from every other people on the face of the earth. And I love this scripture so much because what Moses was saying is, I don't want to go without you. Do not send me anywhere that your presence isn't going with me. And this is Moses. He could have, I mean, he was the guy, you know, but he did not consider the things he had accomplished to be worth anything outside of the presence of God. Right.

Yeah, that's the part about this John 6. You get into it, and I mean, I think it's fine to try to pull out little nuggets about soteriology or whatever, but at the end of the day, I mean, this is about... What is soteriology, Ramon? Where's the cricket button? Yeah, it's like the doctrines of salvation. Like, think bigger. You got to think bigger. We're talking about coming to know in the most intimate... Not just know, becoming one with...

with the creator of the cosmos. Like we're being, I mean, like union with Christ. I'm like, with Christ, union with Christ, that's a big deal. It's like, man, we gotta, you gotta think bigger. Yeah, I mean, God, you have to think bigger. That's the picture that's being painted here by Jesus. And I think that they kept going back to the cisterns.

well, we got to hold it in our doctrines. We got to hold it in our thing. We got to pour it in here. And Jesus is like, I'm trying to tell y'all, this is what the boys, y'all need some new wineskins. This will burst. You need a different kind of bread, which is why I went to that Matthew 6 because it was like,

This is about your existence. Yeah. You're an eternal. That's why he's using eternal life here. But in prayer, it was the same concept. Well, I love you read that in Exodus. And it made me think about Deuteronomy 7. Again, Moses writing. He said, the Lord did not set his affection on you, speaking of the Israelites, because they're about now, they're looking into going to the promised land, and choose you because you are more numerous than other people's.

I love the idea that the only thing special about any of us...

is if we recognize the love of God. Absolutely. I mean, that's the only thing that makes us special is to realize that so many times we think there's something unique about us and that was where Moses was in that moment. He said, the only thing great about you is if you recognize God loves you. That's exactly right. And when you do that, then all of a sudden that changes everything. It changes perspective. And you were using the word ingest. I was saying the word indwell. Indwell.

which is the exact same thing when the Holy Spirit comes in. That becomes that same process you're talking about. And that only happens when you believe who Jesus is and that he is who he says he was. And therefore he says your spirit indwells you, ingest the more of you. The only way you can see more of Jesus is to have the Holy Spirit living in you to expose you to more Jesus. And that's the prevention, by the way, of not...

becoming stale in your faith? Because I thought about this a lot. I saw someone put on Instagram the other day about David and

And they were talking about how he written like so much of the Psalms. And I forgot which one they pulled out, but it was like, man, whoever wrote that line was, was that dude was connected with God. He's a, it's same guy that wrote this also later on cheated on his wife, murdered a guy. And he's like, man, you can't live on yesterday's spiritual wins. And I thought, man, I want to finish strong. I don't want to live on, on the encounter I had with Jesus 20 years ago, man, I want more of him today. And it's,

Because the Holy Spirit's going to live in bodies now, that God's going to take up residence in our human bodies, that we actually, as time progresses, we can actually grow closer and experience His presence even more. And my hope is that when I'm on my deathbed, when I'm at the end of my journey, when I'm in that state like where my mom was when she, I mean, at the end of her life, there's just a frail body left. And I remember going in there the night before she died,

And I just sang, I put on some Shane and Shane and some Alan Jackson. She loved the Alan Jackson gospel. And she couldn't communicate anymore. And half the time I'm like, I don't even know if she's aware of what's going on. But when I played them songs, you know what she did? Just tears. Tears. I could look in her eyes and I was like,

She's ready to go. Yeah. She's ready to go. Because you were in touch with the Spirit that's connected to the Holy Spirit. But that's a life well lived. That's exactly right. And so that's the picture. I think the practical question is, what is a day in your life without Jesus? Yeah. That's a good question. Yeah, that's good. What is it? Nothing good. It's a waste. It's a waste. It's a waste. And you're wasting time.

you know, the food that he's giving you. Well, and we're out of time. I know I actually wanted to read the text, but maybe we've talked about it so much that the next time we can read it. Jill's got a clause. I do have a scripture. This was in my Bible. You get the last word, Jill. It is fitting. From Psalm 8110, I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt. Open your mouth wide and I will fill it.

There you go. That'll eat. That'll preach. Thank you, Jill. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.