Ep 1084 | Jase Channels Phil for a Coffee Culture Rant & Later Gets Humbled by a Soul-Baring Moment
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We are actively looking in Jace's giant dictionary. Do you remember the giant dictionaries, Zach, that Jace broke out a few podcasts ago? I remember it well, and I remember that it's from 1952, correct? 52? Am I right? Is that right, Jace? Is it 52? Uh...

Well, let me not. It's taking me five minutes to look up this word. Here's the problem with the dictionary that's the size of eight books. It takes a minute to look it up. You should have seen him. He had to do his stretches before he could even pick it up off the floor. 1952. Oh, good. Tell me I don't have a good memory. Well, this is when it was published, but oh, Webster. It has a picture of him here. Yeah. Can you see this? Yeah, I can see it. Oh, this is a...

He's 1758 to 1843. Oh, yeah. He's old school. He's kind of got that swept back hair. Best line he ever had is education is useless without the Bible. I mean, this is where we get our dictionary. So we were commenting about my continuing weight loss, and Zach was noticing in our shot.

that I had continued to lose weight. And so we were talking about that. Zach said he didn't realize that he saw a picture of a year ago that you had gained a few pounds you had to get rid of. You said you were obese. I said, well, they said I was morbidly obese. I said, no, what I said, I said I had visceral fat. And so I looked at a picture of my belly. I was like, good night. I've lost some weight. But

But you said, well, you weren't morbidly obese. That's right. Well, I thought that was an interesting word. Because you really don't like it associated with anything because it just makes you feel. That's interesting how he defined it. All right, let's hear it. Okay. Well, if you look up morbidly in a morbid or diseased manner.

Ooh. So we just put diseased in there. I'm not sure I agree with that. You might should have picked a different word. That's the word they told me, Jase. So morbid is disease sickly, not sound and healthful. I think that's what it was. Oh, here's you. Due to a characteristic of disease or a morbid anatomy. Hmm.

Here's you. Oh, I found you, Al. A morbid anatomy. We do get paid from PHD weight loss. Look away. They are a sponsor, but this is not a sponsored segment. That's what we're talking about. That's a commercial. I just think that's how when people say, how are you doing? You say, well, I have a morbid anatomy, as you can tell. Yeah.

You know, I feel pretty good for having a morbid anatomy. Well, here's what started this. So I asked Jace, because you remember last year I got on this kick, I was going to lose 60 by 60. So that was just a cute little phrase back, you know, like late last summer. And I tried and I did lose a little, but I obviously fell way short of my goal and

And so Jace bet on me with some people that were betting against me, and they won because I didn't do it. I didn't pull it off by my 60th birthday. But then I amended and said, but, you know, technically I'm 60 for a whole year. So I said, Jace, if they'll take it, double down because I'm going to lose this weight. And I'm getting close, but I said, I'm going to lose this weight before I turn 61. But you didn't double down, Jace? Well, they wouldn't bet with it. They wouldn't double down. They took my $20, and they said –

You lost. And I was like, I tried to double down. No double down. They were smart. Because I think they thought, well, this guy is probably going to lose the weight eventually or he's just going to die. So they just –

What's wrong with our family? With his morbid anatomy, he's going to the ground. Everybody's happy today. I wonder if how many families... It's funny now that I've lost the weight. It's funny. Yeah, it's all fun and games until somebody... After you lose the weight, it's funny. You make fun of it. Yeah, I guess so. But I won't make fun of others. So those of you out there that are trying, I am not a guy who loses weight that makes fun of you. So I'm making fun of myself. Well, that was hard. You're only 50 pounds. That's...

That's like a chunky middle schooler. You know what I mean? You look at it, you pick up or you try to grab up a middle schooler and you say, son, you've gained some weight. That was what I lost, a sack of corn. We said this before. Yeah, a bag of corn is really the bag of corn. You put a bag of corn on. That's a lot to carry around. I mean, you just take a 45, like the plate weights that you put on and you just almost carry this around. Plate weights, what is that?

Is that an extra helping of food on your plate? What is that, Zach? I'm not familiar with the term plate. I think the plates that go on a set of plates. Oh, working out stuff. Okay. Yeah, like a plate weight. I wasn't aware of that. That's how you have a morbid anatomy. You don't know what that is. I was just thinking every time I pull one off to put on the rack, I'm like, man, that's heavy. You just carry that around with you all the time.

So, yeah. Moving on. Moving on. Yeah. I was trying to find a segue in there. I guess Al was your marketing as we're kind of in that John 7. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The 60 and 60 is what. Yeah, that was a marketing thing I was trying to convince myself. Right. Through crafty marketing. It was. But at the end of the day. You got to do more than market. Don't.

The horse was not ready to run the race. The horse was still eating at the stall. Which I thought that about a month into it, I thought.

I don't like where this is headed. Because I was just visually looking. Where was it going? It wasn't going. It wasn't going. So I thought maybe because you've done it many times in your past. I have. But this time I'm doing it for a lot. Right. Because now I realize I'm 60 years old. I don't know how many of these I got left in me. So I better just keep it off. Well, you know, what's really convicted me about it lately is –

Dr. Amen, who we had on the podcast, and he's not the only one that's saying this. A lot of health care providers now are calling dementia and Alzheimer's and kind of associated related diseases of the mind type three diabetes.

So I think they're finding connection now to end stage like stuff. So what you eat, how you take care of your body, that stuff matters. It impacts your long-term brain health. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Well, you're right, Zach, and we certainly have enough of that in our family history to not add more markers for that. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Which is something we want to work on.

So I had an interesting week because after I left the Southern Lair, heading back this way, we stopped in Flora, Mississippi. It was funny because we were doing a marriage event there, Flora, Mississippi. And I said, when I met these folks there in Flora, at the First Baptist Church in Flora, I said, you know, you pass by a sign, like, so I drive back and forth a lot to go

Gulf Shores to West Monroe. And so I have to go through Jackson, Mississippi and down through Hattiesburg. So I said, I pass by a sign all the time, Flora, with a sign pointing your way and a lot of other little towns. And when I, you know, I'm by myself a lot and I wonder what the people are like in Flora, Mississippi or whatever, then at Yazoo City or these signs I see along the way because you never go there.

But you see the signs over and over and over again. And I was talking to these folks, and I said, I'm finally looking at the people in Florida, Mississippi. Because it's like a little one caution light town.

But they were fantastic folks. Lisa and I did our marriage thing that we do. And one of them told me a story that I mentioned yesterday in my sermon because I was preaching this weekend here as well. Which, by the way, when you're working on a – I was working on Ephesians 6, but then I had like three presentations. But it's hard for those two not to spill over into one another. So they got some pretty good Ephesians stuff too. But this young man and his wife came up to us afterwards, and they were pretty young.

And he said, I wanted to tell you this, Zach, just to let you know you did a good thing. That he said, because in our telling of the story of Jesus, we included some of the things Lisa and I have been through.

And he came, he and his wife came up and he said, he said, we had gone to see the blind. And he said, whenever we were on our way home, he just said, I felt so convicted because he had been involved in an affair, but he had not told his wife. And, uh, and so she's just talking about the movie and the impact and loved it and all this. And he was just super quiet and she was driving, they said. And so finally he just, he wouldn't say anything. And she was like, well, I don't know.

did he not think, you know, cause she kept talking, but he wouldn't say a word. He's just silent. And finally he looked at her and he said, pull over, pull the car over. And she looked at him. She says, some, you know, she pulls over and he's just got this look in his eyes. And he said, I just told her everything.

about what was going on in my life, what had been happening. And I was like, well, how did that go? And she said, well, it was terrible at first. She said, but, you know, they worked through it. This had been obviously two years ago. But it was just seeing the story of Jesus played out, in this case, through mom and dad, that just convicted him. And he was like, I just couldn't keep riding in that car without telling the truth after what I'd just seen.

That's powerful. And I thought, man. You know those moments. I mean, they're like, I don't know if everyone's experienced them, but there's those moments. And I know what it feels like where the Holy Spirit is like, you got to confess this. And so then I confess it to God. And he's like, no, no, no, not to me. And he's like, oh.

That's right. And that's a big one because that's a huge risk that you're taking. Exactly. I mean, that could have been the end of their marriage. Oh, well, you know, he was just in that car. I mean, I don't know the gentleman, but I bet he's just sweating bullets. Oh, he said, he said, I was so scared. And, you know, but again, it shows you, I mean, that's what the Bible says to do. That's what you do. Man, that's good. Yeah. And what does James say? Confess your sins. Yeah.

So that you may be healed. So that you may be healed. And I think that's such a, man, that's powerful. My family keeps expanding. I know yours does too. Y'all are in the grandchild stage right now. So what's that like? It's not boring. It's always interesting. You know, Zach, Lisa and I could be in the great grandchildren mode here before. I have a grandchild that's married for a year. Wow.

Yeah.

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It just shows you our culture now. Dude's vacuuming. This vacuum was like three foot high, and he's vacuuming a coffee maker. That sounded so much like something Dad would say. I mean, it's our culture. They're vacuuming the coffee machine. Al, this vacuum was this high. It looked like you were doing some kind of...

You know, removing a body out of something. What is wrong with America? It was like a CSI site. How is this indicative of our culture again? It's what's wrong with America. I mean, how much coffee do you need? She called it a coffee maker. I thought it was a grill. I thought, boy, that's a pretty good-sized grill there. What?

You can put a whole ribeye on that coffee maker. Oh, is that the name? That's what's wrong with America.

George Washington. Coffee. Vacuum cleaners. Vacuum cleaners. It's what's taking us down. I think we should just make this a part of the episode. We had to take a time out because we're at Duck Commander because I thought it felt like a bomb was fixed to go off or something going at so high rate of speed that it was fixed to crash. When we stop, we start going room to room at Duck Commander and there's

Pretty big fella with, like, contraption on his ears. There's this huge... I thought it was a grill, like the world's largest grill. An indoor grill. It was a coffee maker, and he had a vacuum cleaner the size of, I would say...

How big was that, Matty? The small car? The biggest, yeah, small car. I think that's a bit much. It could be a smart car. Yeah, I mean for like a, you know. Matty, that's what's wrong with America. Yeah, and he's vacuuming a coffee maker. I was thinking.

What coffee do you need? So Jay sits down and has the best dad line I've heard in a while since dad was on the podcast. He said, that's what's wrong with our culture. They're vacuuming in our coffee grinders. And it was just such a dad line to say, Jay. Yeah, but it was just the sound that was coming. You're like, I just couldn't believe it. So.

Jason, the guy felt bad, so I joked. I said, yeah, no problem. Pick up your check. You're fired. I don't know how, Matty. I mean, there's two ways to do this episode. You can just let it run completely through. Just do it, Matty. This is what happened. We even have guests, and this is embarrassing that we're doing this in front of them. It is. We're off the tracks. But look, I've been doing embarrassing things all weekend. Oh, my gosh. With a hint of kingdom stuff. My lovely wife.

She's been doing this, I don't know, a couple times a year. She invites this group of women just from America, right?

It's like on her little social media post. And it's like a- Oh, you heard a little mentoring thing? Yeah, it's like a mentoring thing. Yeah, I like the sound of what she's doing. I don't know, it was 13, 14, 15, 16 women show up. Of course, it's like a lottery, you know. It's boom. Because they're there. Yeah. They stay out at our old place, the Logtown State. And they just have a weekend. She gives lessons. And so then she cooked for them.

at our house. What was that? Saturday night, I guess. Yeah. And you know what she did? Crawfish and crawfish pie. Yeah. So it's like a taste of Louisiana. Yeah. So I got in on the crawfish. But you know, I was watching the LSU baseball game, and then she come in there, and she's like, we need you. And I was like,

Babe, look, you're all women. There's nothing that you're going to say. And you preface this by saying you were watching the LSU game. Not saying that's more important, but I'm saying it was a big series. You got to remember, I had just consumed a 10-pound bag of crawfish because she ordered too many crawfish. These girls, you know. They get tired of it. Well, they had never eaten crawfish either, and it's like they eat seven.

Yeah. She's like, we have a lot of crawfish left over. I was like, grab me a 10-pound bass. It's been a while since I've eaten 10 pounds of crawfish. By the way, just so the audience won't think, Jason will be morbidly obese. That's 10 pounds before you peel them down. Oh, yeah, by the time you peel them. But you may get a pound of meat out of that. You might. I bet you'd get a pound of meat out of 10 pounds. Look that up. How many in the rough? Look that up, Matty.

I'm thinking it would produce from half a pound to a pound of meat, depending on the size of the crawfish. Were they pretty good size? You're saying what? Let's all guess. I say 10 pounds. The listeners know this, the people. I should know that. At one time, I knew that. We were in the crawfish business. But I can't remember. I would say for 10 pounds, that's going to be, I'm going to go five to one. I think that's.

Two pounds of meat? Yeah, it's not that much. You don't think it is? No, it's one. It's a pound. Yeah, I'm going to put you at about half a pound for 10 pounds. And I think you may be closer. I'm making an adjustment. Because Phil's like, a human can eat a pound of catfish. Right. He had that down. He's like, if you eat a pound, if you start getting over a pound...

And most of the time, the people, the professionals would tell you back when we did pre-fried fish that it was half a pound per person is what you planned on. Yeah, you plan on half a pound. Because you would have some people that wouldn't eat as much. But, you know, you got some bubba's in there. We're trying to help you prepare a meal here. What is it? I got the answer. What is it, Maddie? Okay, 10 pounds of whole crawfish will typically yield around a pound and a half of 10 pounds.

I would have said a pound. I've consumed, I had just consumed a pound and a half. Which is very impressive.

Because think about that in terms of like hamburgers. If you had a half pound patty. I've never got full off a crawfish. If I leave out- If you had a pat on a half, you would get full. I feel like I've eaten 10 pounds of crawfish in my life. I mean, you order them in 10 pound buckets. That's like- Of course you did. You already said that.

Two years ago, you couldn't even get to fit yourself in the camera frame. When you're having to go wide angle to take a selfie, there might be a problem. So maybe that was the problem. I had been back to Louisiana since I lost my five pounds. What was the word you used for your fat? It was visceral fat. Visceral. He had visceral fat. It was angry.

but uh so anyway so here i am i was like well what do you need and she said uh wait there's three girls that want to be baptized and i was like you serious and i was like in the pool in the pond are we going up through a church building she's like let's go with the pool so here i am just oblivious of what i did walk by because i was taking all the crawfish remains yeah and uh

They, it was such a cool setting. They were all sitting with their feet in the water, like around the pool. Cause it's, our pool is kind of my circular pool. And Missy was just sitting there. They were all like, you know, native American style. Yeah. And I thought, what a cool. Yeah. Kind of like they did at camp when they baptized out there. Yeah. Well, that was where they kind of did their, that devotional. Okay. And, uh,

So anyway, I'm like oblivious to this. I'm like, well, let's go down. Water was quite cool actually because it had rained. I was doing the little woof. And so, uh, I've been, I told you, I said this before on the podcast. I did. I gave maybe a three minute speech, mainly about, it doesn't matter who baptized you this point, you and God. Cause I didn't, I didn't want them to be distracted, you know? And, uh,

So I asked them, you know, what their confession is. And I was just like, however you want to say, based on what you've heard the last two days and through the little speech here about Jesus, God, you know, sending Jesus and your response to him on who you think Jesus is. So the first one said, you know, Jesus is king. And, you know, something to that effect, you know, I want him king of my life.

So baptized her. And the second one came down and she basically said the same thing, but a little different, you know, geez, I want Jesus as my Lord, you know? Well, the third one, it was, uh, just so raw and real. I forget. It was like two sentences, two or three sentences, but she started off with just saying, she said, I'm done. And she said it passionately.

you know, and, uh, there was a Jesus taking the wheel on my life in there. And it was just a short, fearful, and I'm going to tell you, it just, it just got all over me. I became emotional in the month. I could not speak. Yeah. And I didn't even know where I just met her, but, uh, I don't know, maybe it was the three and the look of the pool. And I thought, man, it was a very powerful moment. I've never had that happen before. I've met a lot of people. Yeah.

because I just said, this ain't about me. Then I'm like now become a distraction because I literally could not speak. It was like very few times in your life do you just see somebody's soul. Just what is way down deep. I can't even remember exactly what she said, but just almost it was like –

you know, through her face and her body language. I mean, it was just an unleashing. But what it was was just surrender. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah.

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I mentioned this yesterday in my sermon, Jase, because we started out about the armor of God, and you think about that being warfare and wearing these weapons of war. We're going at it, but it all starts with put on the Lord's armor. And I was like, the only way you can put on his armor is to completely surrender to him. It's not your armor. It's his armor. Well, I think that's what they had talked about. Yeah. And boy, I'm telling you, it got all.

But I thought, well, this is because we're in this section of John where he's going to give some more clues about what's fixing to be revealed via the Holy Spirit. And it's like, you know, there's some mystery about the Holy Spirit. It's hard to talk about the Holy Spirit because like the first time we got into it, you remember when Nicodemus, which and here comes Nicodemus again resurfacing after this conversation.

And he's talking about this, it's like the wind, you know, you hear it sound. And so he's already introduced that. But I literally, you know, believe I saw this wind and fire of the Holy Spirit

in just a just a little young woman who might have been 25 years old you know it just seems so authentic and they all did but i don't know that moment was just was like there's a reason i guess she decided to go last it was one of the more powerful it's a good thing she didn't go first yeah of uh yeah yeah exactly but i just thought man what a

What an opportunity and privilege to be a part of the kingdom. Well, Jay, so I used an illustration yesterday. I'll bounce it off you and see what you think. Because you never know. Illustrations are like, you know, you never know if they're going to work. And I didn't, you know, know from the audience. But I was talking about this very point about surrender.

And I said, you know, it sounds, and you've said this before, Jace, it sounds almost counterintelligent to say you have to surrender to fight. I mean, it seems like it's the opposite. But I made the point that there were two times in our American history in the last hundred years. One was after December 7th, 1941, after Pearl Harbor. And the other one more recent in all of our memories was after 9-11. I said, what happened when people recognized that?

that as a people, as a country, as a culture, you are literally under attack because people are literally dropping bombs on you. Across America, hundreds of thousands, the day after these things happened, hundreds of thousands of American, mostly young men, especially in the 41 case, were flocking to recruiting stations and raising their right hand

and surrendering to the good of the United States of America and say, I'm willing to serve to try to deal with what we're up against. And I made the point, that's what we're doing here. It's finally reaching us at a heart level that the battle is so big, I can't not be in it.

And so I had to submit myself. So I'm surrendering. Because, you know, when you go in the military, you're saying not my will, but whoever's going to be telling you what to do for the next two to four years. So I compared it to that and what we do, that finally we get to this place where we're saying, all right, it's big enough. I'm all in. So I kind of thought about that when you were describing this one. I think that's why it's so clever and so powerful.

is because if you're in a war, which there's so much in the Bible about spiritual warfare, and you were right there in the middle of it, Ephesians 6, because it's not only our sin, but it's these dark powers who are against us. They're always lurking. Always. And it kind of goes into this idea of,

What came first, the idolatry or the sin? Because they work hand in hand. Exactly. And the gods, little g's of sin.

of our earth. And I think human beings were made to worship. Yeah. We're all worshiping. Right. Something. And sometimes even ourselves. Yeah, exactly. We're the prime candidate for that. But, and the Bible is filled with that. Do you think, oh, I'm in a war? Well, the last thing you think if you were in a fight, is that actually the way to victory is,

is to surrender and die. But that's literally what Jesus did to defeat the powers. I think that Colossians 2, by his death, he disarmed the powers and the rulers and the dark forces of evil. And so I think we get to do the same thing. And when you see it happen, like just from such an authentic person,

in the moment, boy, it is powerful. And you never go weary of seeing it either. You got the John 7 passage, and John 6 for that matter, there's so much of the book of Exodus in these two chapters, this new Exodus language. But if you think about...

And I'm preaching on this Sunday. If you go back to the beginning of Genesis, and you can see a thread that starts in Genesis 128 when God gives this cultural mandate to be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth and have dominion over it.

That phrase, there's a thread that goes all the way to the end of the Bible, Revelation 21, of the idea that we are to be fruitful, we are to multiply, and we are to have authority and dominion over the planet and over the creation. And what happens with sin, and I think this is why this pattern matters and what we're talking about with surrender and what Jesus accomplished, is that what happens with our sin is

is that we take our authority and dominion that God delegated to us, and we turn that over. And instead, we give that over to the idols of creation. And it's the Romans 1 passage. We worship the creature instead of worshiping the creator. So we give the idols...

The power, the dominion, and the authority, and they exercise it over us instead of the other way around. So when Jesus walks the road to the cross and he takes on the suffering of the world and he takes on the sins of the world, what he's ultimately doing is he's crushing sin.

the idols that hold us in bondage and slavery, and he's giving us true freedom. I think that's the thing. It's a realignment. It's restoring us back to our position that we had in Eden. And I think that's why you see in the text here, you see all of this language about Exodus, because Exodus is a story. I know it's about Pharaoh,

And I know it's about Egypt and I know it's about Israel getting out of the bondage of Pharaoh in Egypt, but it's really our story. I mean, it's really the Exodus motif is just a, it's a picture of what like our whole, like our journey as people of trying to get out under the bondage and the slavery of these idols that we've given power to. And N.T. Wright says it so well. He says that the reason why

The idols have, which are created things, the things in the created world. The reason why they have the power they have very simply is that humans have abdicated our own dominion and given it over to them. We're not fulfilling what God originally told us to do in Genesis chapter one, verse 28. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, Missy was involved in a few years ago, a project called Crimson Gospel.

which was a musical that kind of spanned across the Old Testament into Jesus and the cross. And it was a really great concept. And obviously, it was a lot of songs in there. But the storyline went through this idea of what you're describing, Zach. And we went back, because I helped her and collaborated a little bit with her about that, seeing that, I call it the red ribbon moment.

You think about the Passover, you think about Rahab and the scarlet cord hanging out of the window, and you just look back over the Old Testament, you see those little moments along where they were like these little symbols that you see that were pointing towards something. And this went across generations of people, but the idea has always been there. It's always been there that it's coming, it's

It's going to be here, this idea that God's there. And I love that concept that the gospel spans across all of human history, which is very, very powerful in our future. So we ready to get to John 9? Yeah, I think that was pretty good. That's pretty good. That was the cold open, folks. That was it, just as it happens. But we're in John 7. Here in this text, we left off with Jesus. Remember, we had just gone through all these things.

you know, illustrations about the bread and the body and the blood and him talking about my flesh. And he had this really hard teaching. And at the time, like he had had this huge following in Galilee that had, and these were his people, you know, these were the ones that were there, you know, in his neighborhood, so to speak. And then they left him. I mean, they all, it was just too much for them. So he's kind of back down to the original plus their little support group and

And so he's at home in Galilee, and his brothers decide that he needs to go to the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, or booths it's called sometimes, to be able to make a name for himself. They had a little marketing strategy for him, and they said, look, if you're going to be a big deal, you got to get out there and press the flesh. I'm paraphrasing, of course. And so that's where we left off. Which these feasts keep coming up. You had made the point that...

We've already addressed the Passover feast within one of the other stories, which will come up again when Jesus dies. Pentecost. Pentecost, which is, that's the one where they're celebrating, I think it's like 50 days after the law was given, like the Ten Commandments were given. Which I think the reason we're bringing this up, and this one was like, yeah,

This was in the fall time. So it was like harvest. I mean, the idea was you're in the wilderness. You had the tabernacles. God was there making his presence known. And so we're honoring that. But the idea is that he provides. Jason, we were very young. We went to...

seminary together to study the Bible, and you were the first person that I ever heard use the word martyrs. And I was like, what is a martyr? And you explained it to me, and it was inspiring when you explained it to me. Well, it was kind of shocking when you read the Bible. You realize how real this was to them, knowing that they had seen the power of the resurrection of Jesus, and that

They weren't going to let threats stop them. Then I found the Voice of the Martyrs later, which is an organization that's been really highlighting around the world people that are still being martyred for their faith. Not everyone, of course, loses their life, but of course they're persecuted in many different ways. And there's a book that's out by a man named Todd Nettleton. He's the Voice of the Martyrs radio host.

And he's been traveling for 20 years, and across these 20 years of restricted nations, he's found amazing stories of people who still are persecuted because of their faith. The book is called When Faith is Forbidden. Here's a copy of it here with us today. 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. So it's a journal...

It's also a devotional to read these stories and also then not only by highlighting what they're going through, but help us to be able to reflect and see what God wants from our lives as well. It's a great challenge. Helps you reflect on your walk with Christ. We highly recommend it. Here's the best news.

It's free. They're giving you the book just to see what's happening out around the world. So you can request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-463-4059. That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That's vom.org slash unashamed. You're thinking about, I think the reason I'm saying, you know,

making a big deal of this is because you got to look at that was kind of the context by which Jesus is speaking. Right. And they're putting their faith in all these events that happened. I'm not sure how long before. How long before did all that happen that they're still doing the feast over than now? But I think that's why when you get to the verse that said, I mean, we can figure it out how long ago it was.

I don't know when it was, but when you said that, I was thinking of fast forward to post-resurrection of Jesus and post-calling of the apostle Paul. Paul says this in Colossians 2 about these festivals and all this. He says this. The way he says it, I think...

If we can read the text in knowing this now, it'll help us see what the point of all this. He says in verse 16 of chapter 2 of Colossians, he says, Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in question of food or drink or with regard to a festival, which we're about to read about, or a new moon or a Sabbath.

And here's why. This is the point. These are a shadow of the things to come. So he's saying, don't focus on the shadow. You want to look at the substance that's producing the shadow. And he tells us what that is. He said, but the substance...

belongs to Christ. And I think this is the, like, Paul obviously had a further revelation, but in this moment, that hasn't quite been revealed yet, but that's essentially what Jesus is doing. He's establishing himself as the substance, and he's basically saying these things are shadows.

And you're focused on the shadow. Well, and he was actually given a little bit of nod to where he was going because you're right, a Jewish male, according to Old Testament tradition and law, was supposed to go to these three festivals. And yet here he is looking like he's not going to go. I mean, that's what the brothers... Well, my point is, but the point I was trying to make was...

at the heart of these festivals were that God was going to send, yes, he liberated them from Egypt. He was with them in the wilderness. The Passover lamb saved them from death. Saved them from death, the Passover lamb. So all these things in their history, they're celebrating that God was faithful, which he was. Yeah.

But underlying was that he was going to send a Messiah. Right. Yeah. That's the whole point. Yes, exactly. And now. And he's there. And they're like, yeah, he's like, I'm here, boys. You need to market yourself. Well, and the reason I'm bringing this up is God also chastised them and judged them because they weren't faithful. Correct. They're really not having a festival for that. Right.

You know, it's like, who's going to have a party saying how bad we are? However, that's what happened. They should have had a festival of repentance. That should have been the festival. Well, and the reason I think this is important, because if you're not looking at what he's saying through that focus, we tend to just jump off the rails and start making arbitrary doctrines about some of the statements he's making. Right.

And I think it misses the overall point, which that's why we did that. You don't want to miss them again is the point. Well, right. The Messiah that is the bedrock of all these festivals. They miss that. I'm here. It's the same thing he says about the scriptures, right? But maybe a better way of saying it, because the way that Paul says it is it's a shadow thing.

Of the things to come, which is kind of interesting because the shadow typically is behind, right? So the shadows behind, they get the light, the figure, and then the shadow. But what this is, is kind of reversal. The shadow, it's maybe a foreshadowing. It's the shadow actually happens first. Yeah. And then it foreshadows what is to come. So these things all foreshadow. They come before the actual substance comes.

pointing to the substance. And so I think that's a good way of looking at it.

is these all point to the one who is named Jesus. Well, exactly. That's what I was trying to get to my practical point of all that was that I had the same problem today trying to get people to unite in Jesus because I'm like, we don't want to miss the point here. Yeah. Because we have our little groups like they had their little groups. And then here is the Messiah for their nation. Yeah.

All the festivals were leading you to this conversation with the Messiah. And they're like, no, you're not. And just to hammer your point on, Jays, in verse 6 of 7, which is where we left off, even his own brothers did not believe in him. So they had lived with him for 30 years.

They had seen him as a child. They'd seen the whole thing and they didn't believe he was the Messiah. And so they missed him and he literally lived in the house with him. But you got to think if you live with your brother and you never see him sin, you never see the guy sin, you never see him make a mistake, you might think there's something different about

this guy. I've never seen him make a mistake. But I told you last time I said inside of families, if we see something like that or even something similar, even in our today, we would say, oh, they're just weird. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? There's something wrong with him. That's what we'd say. And that's what they said about him. So they were going to help him along because what he says, which we didn't get to yet, was he gives them a pretty little stern little rebuke. Yeah, he does. And what I'm trying to say is, all right, so think about big picture, though, back then. Why did God choose Israel in the first place? You know, we read that in Deuteronomy 7. Yep.

And it's like the elect language that's all filled in the Bible. Well, it says he elected Israel. And you're like, well, what happened? Well, they didn't realize what the purpose was, which he chose Israel to show the other nations about this awesome God that they have.

Have a marriage to. Right. That's it. Hey, let me stop you there because that is a huge point. That's what I was trying to say earlier. And it kind of when I said it, I felt like, man, this is kind of coming out of left field. But it wasn't. Well, that's where I was headed all along. But I'm going to mark my place and then you tell me your view. I think we're going in the same direction. We are. So think about this, what you just said, that the point of Israel, where did he call Israel?

Genesis 12, right after the Tower of Babel, when nations were created, he pulls a portion of those nations out for himself. He pulls the one called Israel for the purpose of

Of bringing all the nations back in. That's the picture you see in Revelation 21. Out of the lineage and loins of Abraham in Genesis 12, correct. But where was that original mandate given? It was given in Genesis 1, 28. Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. When do you see it again?

Genesis 9, after the flood, he says to Noah and the eight, he blesses them. And you know what he tells them? Be fruitful and multiply and fill the land. So then you have the calling of the nations. I want my people to take over Israel.

the planet. Like, I want you to fill the earth. So then when you get to the story of Exodus, Exodus 1, verse 6, it seems like that's going to happen because it says that Israel, after Joseph died and all the 12 sons of Jacob died, which Jacob, by the way, was the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham, who the promise was given. And then it says in Exodus 1, 6, that the people of Israel were fruitful and multiplied and filled the land.

And so you see it, and it just keeps going. That thread goes throughout all Scripture. So God has an intention for Israel. The intention for Israel is like, this is going to happen. Genesis 128, God's like, that is going to happen.

Despite your failure, I will see to it that that happens. And did he not tell Abraham, your seed will be as many as the sand on the seashore and stars in the sky? To your point, he's a different phrase, but he's saying the exact same thing. This is what truly Israel will look like. And the vision keeps expanding. It's like every time you think, oh, we figured this out,

and this is what it meant. Oh, it meant physical Israel. Well, then Exodus happens, right? And then you're like, well, then Paul comes back in, which to your point, Jason, about election. You get to Romans 9, and everyone makes this about like,

about election of these individual souls. And I'm reading Romans 9 thinking, no, this is about the big eschatological command and vision that we're going to see fully consummated. Well, let me jump in there because I was going to read Romans 10 because right after that, he says, after Romans 9, where all these arguments are formed, he just says in verse 1, brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God is

for the Israelites is that they may be saved. Well, you just have to stop right there and think, well, weren't they chosen from the beginning? They're talking about being saved. People of God. And I think that's why they're doing the festivals that, yeah, we were chosen by God, but they are not recognizing that

Who's doing the saving? You know, through whom this is going to happen, which is Jesus. Because then he goes on to say, for I can testify about them that they are zealous for God.

But their zeal is not based on knowledge. Well, they know the scriptures like the back of their hand. They know the festivals. They know the festivals. They're doing all this. And so then he explains it. It's like, since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, well, who is the righteousness that comes from God? Jesus. Well, he's going to answer that dilemma. ♪

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And then it says, verse 4, Christ, this 10-4, is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. So look, now I fast-forwarded. Jesus has died, has been buried, has been raised, goes to the right hand of God. This spirit that's going to flow out from you, it's going to be in you but flow out from you that we're fixed to read in John 7, says,

This is way after that, and they're still struggling to get it after all this. And then the rest of that chapter starts talking about how good are the feet that bring good news, and faith comes to hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. What is that, Romans 10, 17? Yeah.

And so you're like, we're back to letting the nations know and go back and think when Jesus said, all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me, therefore go make disciples, what? Of all nations. Well, now this is post-death bound resurrection. Well, that was the Israelites' job. They didn't do it. Wasn't God's fault. It was their fault. They weren't upholding their purpose that God had for them. So then God, through Jesus, said,

Pulls it off, and now we all have the same mission. And I think unless you look at it through that vein, there's another example of that, Romans 10. I wanted to read it too because when you read it, it doesn't make sense if you're not looking at it from Israel being God's chosen nation with a purpose in them.

And I'm going to read this other part. I came across this last night and I was like, well, that doesn't make sense. And then I realized I was doing the same thing that I'm telling you today not to do. Because when we hear that word election, we tend to think, well, you know, who's saved and who's not? Well, we tend to want to limit.

Which anytime, by the way, as you're looking that up, that you want to limit the vision of God's kingdom, anytime you want to limit that, here's my phrase for you. Think bigger. Just think bigger. Yeah, that's a good, Al, that's good advice. Well, I want to read to you what he first says to Timothy in 2 Timothy 1. And it says, verse 8, Don't be ashamed to testify about our Lord.

or ashamed of me as his prisoner. Why are we testifying about the Lord? Because I'm going back to that Romans 10. Faith comes through hearing the message. The message is heard through the word of Christ. God has a job and a purpose for human beings. It is to reflect.

that we are made in the image of God and then remade as new creations, and then we have the Holy Spirit, which is going to enable us to do this. So watch what he says, though, how he packs this up. But join with me in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life, not because of anything we have done, same as Romans 10, but

but because of his own purpose, his purpose. That's why I keep going back to that. And his grace. So there's two things functioning. Yes, this grace was given to us before the beginning of the world to be in Christ, cleaned up, made ready for the presence of God. But he also had a purpose, and it was to reach the nations. So watch this. Then it says, this grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

So it's like this phrase in Christ Jesus, this was the plan all along. But it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, that

who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light in the gospel. And my whole point for reading all this is they're standing there looking at him, and they're not acknowledging the vehicle by which this, by God's plan, grace, and purpose, is happening. And you're like, well, why? Because they had one, an agenda that they thought, this is it.

And that's why he's going to make that phrase. He's like, Jesus said, my time hadn't come yet. Because in the moment, he hadn't died. But he makes this little phrase. He said, but for you, any time will work.

Because this is never going to change. You're celebrating something that happened hundreds of years ago, and you haven't figured out there was a greater purpose. Exactly. And I'm the purpose. Exactly. So any time will work for you because you're just passing this down from generation to generation, and you're missing it. And to prove my point, I want to read this verse. So when he gets to 2 Timothy 2, look at this odd verse. You're talking about an odd verse.

2 Corinthians 2, verse 10, listen to what it says. Therefore, I endure everything, Paul's saying, for the sake of the elect. You're like, what? That they may obtain salvation that is in Christ Jesus. And my point of reading that is, every time you see elect, you think, oh, they were elected to be saved from the beginning. But here you have a verse based on the context. He's saying,

I'm enduring everything for the sake of the elect so that they may be saved. He's like, I'm trying to save these people in Jesus. But they think, oh, we were elected God's holy nation and we didn't fulfill our purpose, so we had to have another plan.

And they're still missing it, is the point. I don't know how you could interpret that any other way. You have to think bigger. I came to the same conclusion yesterday in Ephesians 6. I said, as a young man, I looked at this passage only in that I needed armor to fight for myself.

And now I realize when I look at it in the context of the whole book of Ephesians that started out Ephesians 1 with the idea that everything is in Christ, the Holy Spirit now indwells us. I'm fighting for something way bigger than that, which is why Paul closes that. What does he say when he says, pray for me at the end of Ephesians 6, that I may declare...

boldly the word of God, that I may make it clear to everyone. So the only reason you need armor is because you're engaged in a battle for other people to understand what this is all about. Which gets into the purpose for why are we sharing Jesus with people? Why would you do it? Why would you need it? Because God, from all along, this is the...

fulfillment of the purpose for a human to reflect their creator. And now you have the greatest vehicle in the world, which is Jesus. And then he gives you the Holy Spirit, which gives you the power to do it. I mean, it's... Well, it's ultimately God has an agenda and God has a plan and God has a will. And human failure, human incompetency,

And human corruption will not thwart the will of God. He will accomplish what he set out to do, which is Romans 9. I mean, those who are not my people, guess what he says he's going to do? I'm going to call them my people.

And her who is not beloved, I will call beloved. In the very place where it was said to them, you're not my people, they will be called the sons of the living God. God will call the nations. God will pull the nations in. Despite Israel's failure, despite our failure, that Revelation 21 picture, it will be fully realized one day. And there's a lot of beauty in that. But meanwhile, I think as you read through John 7, we're just seeing God

One, we're seeing Israel's failure, but we're also kind of seeing our own failure because even now, I think we have our versions of our festivals and feasts that we latch on to that are actually shadow things. We latch on to good things. We latch on to church. We latch on to the Bible. We latch on to these other things that God made to point us to Him, and then we make them ultimate. And so I think that the message here in John 7, it's not just for

for Israel in its time. It's not just for these teachers of the law. It's for us. We all struggle with making the things of God. Yeah. Well, we'll get, we're going to get to that as this goes along, but, but you're seeing all these groups of people and I don't know if you want to read it or. Well, we're, we're about out of time. I'll say two things to wrap this up and then we'll get back into John seven on the next podcast. But I,

I love that the two pictures we talked about. One is, Jace, you mentioned Romans 10, how beautiful the feet. And it made me think about, again, about my sermon yesterday. The feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. He says the exact same thing there. But I was saying about it, you don't want to have Jesus live in your house for 30 years and miss him.

and somehow think he's not big enough. So that was kind of the theme of this entire thought. That's where it is in John 7. We'll pick it up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.