Ep 1085 | Jase Roasts ASMR-Style Videos & Godwin Gets Re-Baptized by Accident
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Welcome back to Unashamed. I just baptized John Godwin. Well, you did. He did baptize. He got re-baptized. He's here on the podcast. Let me show you what happened. I said I wish that this had happened on camera. So I picked up my water bottle like this by the top, but the top wasn't secure. So as I went to set it down...

It exploded this way, and I literally sprinkled you, John. You did. Do you feel more... No, it was more of a splash. I feel so clean now.

You look like a new man. Godwin's back. So Godwin is here with us today, and John, we expected you on the first podcast. Yeah. What happened, man? Nobody said anything, but I thought John was supposed to be here. I was thinking, I thought, well, I guess he's retired. John, you're retired now. I retired December 31st. So how does that feel as a retired man? Well, I've been fishing every day. Oh, really? Have you been catching any?

That's a silly question. You don't go to not catch fish. I started doing it. I'm crappie guiding now. Oh, so you're not really retired. No, I just started a third career. 62 years old, I'm on my third career. Oh, really? How long were you at the paper mill? 21 years. 21 years. How long were you at Duckamatic? 25 years. And now you're going to be crappie fishing the rest of the way. I've been crappie fishing guide for three months. Oh.

Oh, really? So are you using the crappie magnet? Do you use the crappie magnet? You better believe it. I am the crappie magnet. Oh, there we go. That's a biblical. That's bold. So, John, tell us why you're joining us on the second podcast instead of the first podcast. Well, studios change along with life.

But, Gowan, you've been on our podcast before. But not here. It was down at the lair. I got a technical question. Did we use subtitles for Gowan in previous episodes? We used to on the show. No. No? No.

Godwin, how did you feel when they put subtitles up on the show? And you were supposedly speaking the English language. I don't know why people don't understand Godwin. Yeah, I don't either. I've told people how to do it. You got to get like a lawnmower in your mind, a chainsaw. Well, but it's like...

And I used to pull cranky. It's like Godwin getting up in the morning because we sat side by side for years. Yeah, he is. And it's like, and they're like, I tell you what, boy, the fish are biting. So once you kind of get that in your mind, it becomes easier. Oh, yeah.

So you went out to the Southern Lair, which is about a 25-minute drive from here. Yeah, I just went on a ride about. How was it? It looked good. The studio was still there? Well, I didn't go inside. I pulled up, and there wasn't the usual collage of trucks. And I said, hmm, they changed the time, or it ain't here. Yeah. So I called Beth, and she said, what?

It's up here, which makes logical sense. It would have saved you a lot of time. Yes, but I wouldn't have got to go and see the outdoors and the trees. They've growed a little bit. Oh, yeah. Everything grows. Do you guys like filming a duck commander, or was that a good move for you? I mean, because that saves you a lot of time. Oh, yeah. Do we like filming here? Yeah.

Yeah. Somebody built this nice studio. Well, it makes sense. I never figured out the fireplace, and then we have a fire behind me, but it produces zero heat. It's called ambiance. Yeah. Or ambiance, if you like. Would you define that for me?

Chase, do you have a dictionary that you can look it up? Will you see what Noah Webster says about it? Check this out, guys. Watch this. If he can lift it. We don't need Google. Good, Gary. That's every word in the English language. From 100 years ago. 1952. That is awesome. Where did you find that? Unashamed listener.

Because we look up a lot of words on the Google search. You know what? I actually think Missy bought this for me. Well, Chase, your story's... I don't know what's true anymore, Zach. He tells more stories. Well, no, this story, I was misremembering, if that's a word. Stories change. Sounds like somebody from the Clinton administration. Missy...

But Missy came in with this book, but she was like with both hands like, oh, and just wham, set it down. And I just assumed that someone had sent it because she checks the mail. I don't.

But she found that. She said, I found some treasure for you. Because I turned her into a treasure hunter with the treasure hunting show. Yeah. But the difference is her treasure costs money. That's right. You find money. She always goes to these, what do you call them, like estate sales and flea markets. And she said, I actually got this to help you and Zach's relationship.

Which is a good thing. Yeah, because I'm constantly, because every time she says, why are you on your phone when you're doing your podcast? Which she said she doesn't listen, but how would she know that? Yeah, I think she talks to people. So I said, well, I'm looking up words. Are you looking in the A's or the O's? I'm trying to figure out how to spell ambience. A-M-B-I. Okay. A-M-B-I.

A-N-C-E. Ambient. So ambient was actually a drug or is a drug for sleep. Well, ambient is that which encompasses on all sides. Yeah, that's ambient light. Look at ambiance. I'm not sure that was a word back in 1950. Oh, is that a new word? Did we just have a new word since 1950? Well, that's pretty cool.

Talk amongst yourselves. So do you remember, John, whenever we were living, we were next to our neighbors for 16 years. Yeah. And I had a big dictionary, not quite that big.

And Lisa got a ganglion cyst on her hand. Yeah. A little cyst. And you remember, I had read somewhere where you could take a big book and just like pop it. Yeah. And so I did it without her permission. She was a little apprehensive. And then Zach tells me that he's since looked that up and they said, don't do that. Don't do it. Don't do it. It's not helpful. So the word ambiance or ambience, you could spell it.

According to Google, you can spell it with an A-N-C-E or E-N-C-E. Okay. Both would be the same. I thought A-N-C-E. Ambience. The character is the character and atmosphere of a place. So spell the whole word for me. A-M-B-I-E-N-C-E. Ambience. Or ambience. Here it is. He found it. Huh. That can't be right.

What does it say? It says, applied to fluids or diffusible substances, as in the ambient air. Yeah, they're going back to that. That makes sense. Encompasses on all sides. Yeah, so I guess we've invented a word. Well, I mean, it's a derivative, right? So think about what's around you. It's the space around you.

Covering all sides. That's what it is. It's what fills the room. It sounds like the man who created our atmosphere here. I feel like it was a poorly used word. That's not what I'm seeing right there on the other side. Well, my point, the point I wanted to get to was are you enjoying the space? Because no one's ever told me if you are. I'm just curious if y'all are enjoying the new space.

Well, it's making me think of the spirit being poured out. You know, it went from over there to in here. Then the room as in the body. I mean, it became personal.

Zach, I'll tell you, like Jesus told the woman at the well, the worship won't be on that podcast studio or this podcast studio. It'll be anywhere the Holy Spirit of God is. That's where we'll be doing God's work. That's where we're at. So this might change too. It could. But the Holy Spirit will still be there. Now look, John, so recently on a podcast, very recently, in the last week or two, I told a story because on Easter Sunday,

For the first time in 20-plus years, I was not preaching on Easter Sunday. Usually Mike and I go together the years he's been here. But it's been many, many years since I wasn't preaching on Easter Sunday. So it felt very weird to me to be tuning in and watching our live stream. But they didn't show it at the end of the live stream. They just said we got a baptism. They didn't say anything about it. So then I find out the next day through Kellett,

that the baptism that day, or one of the baptisms, was your son-in-law. And as soon as I saw it in the text, instantly I had my eyes welled up with tears because I had been a part of Celia and Johanna's life since they found each other.

And did their wedding and just, you know, obviously we're best friends. So it's been a long, long time. But it just touched me so deeply. And I told the story on the podcast because when I first met Celio, to be perfectly honest, I just thought this isn't going to work out. I mean, just being a protector of Dojada, I'm like her uncle, like an honorary uncle. And I just didn't think he had it in him to be the man he is. And it just shows you do not –

Do not say things aren't possible with God. And I told you, I sent you a text and I said, your grace and your patience have shown through here.

So Al, you are kind of taking your health serious now. Are you going to the doctor on a regular basis? Yeah, I get my wellness check every year to just kind of see how I'm going, looking at numbers, you know, finding out if everything's healthy. Well, that's a big deal. I'm not that age now where I'm starting to go. I'm doing my yearly check-ins and our friends at Field of Green help with this. Jill's on this product as well. There's one simple lifestyle upgrade that we can all make.

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numbers are normal. And this mom said, "After Field of Greens, my hair, nails, energy, and blood work all are better." Jill can testify that as well, at least for the hair part. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected to support vital organs like heart, liver, kidney, metabolism, immune system, and healthy blood cells. Jill and I drink this every morning

And I'm telling you, you will see the difference. Let's get you started with 20% off and free shipping. Visit fieldofgreens.com. Use code unashamed. That's fieldofgreens.com. Use code unashamed. So it meant a lot to me just reading about it. So I don't know, or hearing about it, but what was it like for you? Cause it was pretty awesome. You got to baptize it. Yeah, it was, uh, when he called me,

Of course, he's heard the gospel a couple of times. Oh, yeah. But it never... I knew it would be... It was kind of like Johanna. Somebody else had to really sink it in to her. But he called the men's retreat. He went on the men's retreat. For him, it was like... And I thought this kind of wild or strange that it was one guy's testimony that...

Taught him that sin don't have weight. We put the weight on it. And I thought that was weird that that's what convinced him that I need to do something here. Wow. You know. That's interesting. We put weight on it. Because he's a very smart young man, by the way. He checks everything. He's like a genius level person. But, yeah, almost like the rich dude. Yeah, rich and realer, yeah. Yeah, but, man. Yeah.

He called me and he told me, I said, you finally believe he is who he said he is. Yeah, that's a good line. Because he said there was a guy up there praying at the stage, and he went up there and just put my hand on it because he was by himself. Yeah. And he said, he just got up and hugged me. I didn't even know him. And I don't really know why I went down there. I just felt like I needed to because he was by himself.

Which was another change because he's very, you know, closed off. But anyway, he said, I want some more of that. And then he said, well, you know, I'm 30. And Jesus was 30 when he was baptized.

And John baptized me. And you're John. I said, well, I'm glad to be in that company. Did you tell him what happened three years later? He got to be careful, brother. Well, but then three days after that. Okay, there you go. There you go. Come on, somebody. Then three, and then three days. So three is. Yeah, so I was very honored. I mean, he finally got it.

But you just got to, that just goes to show you can't just hammer stuff into people. You just got to live it what you preach. Well, they're seeing the Holy Spirit. That's, you know, and that's growing them. I told him, he and Johanna have been to a couple of marriage refreshes. So I spent a weekend with them on marriage stuff. And this is all before all this just happened.

But I was noticing the changes in him. He would come up to me and thank me. And I told him I finally forgave him for doing their wedding on the LSU-Alabama game of the national championship year. And he laughed about that. It was funny because I was like, you know, I've been holding this against you. But I was kidding. But just watching over time, and sometimes the gospel –

We talk about the message. Sometimes this hits you square and you see it and you know it. And sometimes it takes watching people live it for a while.

Before you get there, before you're ready. And you never know what it'll be. And that's why the importance of the words you say, the life you live, the person you are, being consistent, makes a difference. Because, I mean, you and Paula lived it out in front of them. And the first time I knew that this young man was potentially what he now is becoming was when Johanna got sick and they still weren't married. They were dating.

And she got sick and that he never left the hospital for several days. And we were there. And of course we were worried about her. And I thought, you know what? I've misjudged this young man because he loves Joanna, you know, and I knew it in that moment. I was, cause at this point I didn't know. And my whole view of him changed from that point forward. I said, there's something here, there's some depth here. And now we're getting to experience it. And I, and I told him,

Since this has happened, I said, brother, I don't know where God's going to use you, but there are a lot of people that probably had the same issue you did in crossing over to Christ, and you're going to be one that helps them get there. So I said, don't ever shrink back now. Don't be stingy. What's interesting as you're talking about that, John, I was thinking about, because I'll drift into the more intellectual side of things, as Jace points out every time he uses a big word.

And I studied for years all the apologetics, all the arguments, and very helpful for me, by the way. I'm not diminishing that at all. But you know how many people that I brought to Christ through some kind of tightened up argument? The answer would be zero. I've led zero people to Christ. And I do think it's important, but what's interesting is I've seen people come to Christ and

out of a place of a broken spirit and a contrite heart, which the psalmist says the Lord will not despise. And I do think that that power of your life and your testimony that you and Paula have lived is, I mean, y'all have impacted me and Jill a lot. And the verse that popped up in my mind was Revelation 12, 11, that the way they overcame him was by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony.

And I think, man, it is that it is a drip. And I think those retreats, which I went on one, are so impactful because there's confession, there's repentance, there's testimony, and there's just like a surrendering spirit to the Holy Spirit. And man, it's that's pretty cool to hear your story about your son, son-in-law. I know that's got to be.

Such a relief for you. Well, and the beauty of it is, Zach, it's Jesus' story that makes the difference. It's when we finally intersect with our lives. It's the intersection of that's what makes the difference. It's not really anything we did or didn't do. It's us finally surrendering to that place.

And I love the way you put it. What did you say? You finally believe in who he is? Yeah. Believed he is who he says he is. Yeah, that's so good because that's the point. What did Paula say? Was she in tears? Yeah. Yeah. What about Joey? Was she crying? Oh, they was all crying. Oh, yeah. I cried. I cried when I just heard about it. So I had to text you. It was really powerful. I brought him out, kissed him on the forehead, and gave him a big hug. That's awesome. Really? Well, he's taking care of my daughter. Yeah.

John went back old school to greet one another with a holy kiss. I tell you what. It's biblical. It's biblical. I like it. So we're in John 7, John, John Goblin, which is we're in the story where Jesus' brothers, they're like, it's time to go up to the feast. And they said, if you want to make a name for yourself, you need to get up there and press the flesh and show people who you are.

Go public. Go public, you know? And what they didn't realize is he had already gone public. That's why he came here was to go public. Yeah. But it was just that interesting thing about talking about how people miss it sometimes for a long time. They were missing it and they had lived with him for 30 years. It's pretty incredible. And so that's where we left off in our story.

And I was, Jase, I was mentioning this. Was there anything from the last podcast you didn't get said, you wanted to get said? Well, I think we at some point just need to read it and then whatever we left out. We kind of gave an outline to understanding this. So, Godwin, you may have to listen to that podcast. I'm going to. Before you kind of get, I mean, this is kind of a part two episode.

But you just have all these groups that are not recognizing who Jesus is, which is, that's why when you made that statement, you didn't know what we were going to talk about today. But that really, that's what it all comes down to. That is the statement, yes. You have these Jewish leaders who are kind of putting all their eggs in the festivals that they're having about what God did in the past for the nation of Israel.

But the whole point of that was he was going to bring a Messiah. And now he has, and he's right in their face. And they're like, nope. Right. And now his own brothers, you would think. Now, they did figure it out because Acts 1, post-resurrection, they're in the group of people that are gathering up. It says, among the believers praying together.

with the disciples. So, along with the women. That's in Acts 1. We read that. And part of this scenario that's happened in the text is

Jesus knows the big picture of what he's doing. They obviously don't because they don't even believe he's the Messiah. But he knows now because for the first time in the last chapter in 6, we're seeing that people not only disagree with him, but they're starting to think we need to kill him. And he came to die, but it's not time yet. So part of his reason is, as George W. Bush would say, is some strategery.

to be able to wait. And so I think that, because he had planned on going to the feast anyway, but he just wouldn't want to go right up there at the beginning of it and get started. He's just, and I don't, to be honest with you, I don't think he liked them telling him what to do when they didn't know what they were talking about. That's the way I'd be. If Willie and James called me and started telling me what to do, I'd go, Roberts and Co., wait a minute. What do you mean? You're trying to tell me what to do? You always got to be careful when you're giving God advice.

Yeah. Just think about that. Or I'm always, you know, because I listen to a lot of speakers, you know, I'm not interested in denomination, but if somebody's going public in a sermon, I'll listen to it. If the title, I'm like, well, let me see what they got to say about this. But if it's filled with, you know, statements about what God can do and can't, or, you know, God has to do this, and then you're trying to prove the point. I'm always like,

I don't think I would be as a human start to dictate policies. I think they have a phrase for that of putting God in a box. And I've done that before where it's like, well, this says this, so it can't be that, you know, God can't do this. Or, I mean, the only things that stand out that God can't do is lie or die. Yeah.

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Those are good things. That's exactly what Hebrews 6 says. It's the two things that's impossible for him to do. So let's, you know, let's maybe dig deeper and see, you know, because the Bible is hard to wrap your head around because you're going back hundreds of years into, you know, a nation out in the middle of a desert where he chose them and then brought out of that nation himself in a human form that actually came from a virgin. And you're like, wait, what?

So sometimes I think we do kind of miss the big picture of that and try to apply everything to modern day without seeing it through that vein and a lot of arguments come out. I had a lot of blanket statements that are proven to be false about God.

So Jays do this. So read John 7, start in verse 6, and at least read down through verse 24. Because what's going to happen is he's going to have a little statement here for the brothers, and then he's eventually going to go and kind of observe for a few days and then wind up teaching. But at least read that much in those systems. So he says in 6, he's like, Jesus told him, the right time for me has not yet come.

For you, any time is right. And I addressed that on the last podcast because they're strictly looking at past accomplishments that even before they were born happened hundreds of years ago. Yeah.

Saying, oh, you know, God is on our side. Look, we're going to the festivals. And I like the way you pointed that out, because when I read this, sometimes I tend to read it totally just from them and his brothers and him almost being like, for you, any time of work. But he's not. He's saying this as a bigger Jewish picture. No doubt. And look, even fast forward, he's...

A lot of people just focus on what Jesus did on the cross, which is wondrous. He paid for our sins. He disarmed the powers. He did that. But you also got to look forward to what that was going to accomplish, which through the resurrection and him pouring out the Spirit, it created a way for people to image God on the earth. So I say that all the time, and I'll reiterate it.

In our churches, there's very little focus on what Jesus is doing. We say, what would Jesus do? Because we're looking back at the past and saying, well, what would he do if he were here? Like he's not here. Yeah. I got news for you. He's the Lord of heaven and earth. He's running this show. Which is why on this podcast, our little symbols we use, that arrow going back up was a big, big deal. Yeah.

I mean, him ascending and sending the Spirit back was huge. I mean, that brings heaven into our lives, into our very bodies. It's a good question if you ever want to just see somebody zombie out, is you're like, what is Jesus doing in your life now via the Holy Spirit? Instead of saying, did you catch any fish? It's like, what's Jesus doing in your life now via the Holy Spirit?

It's liable to be crickets, which is a bad thing. So, verse 7, the world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

Yeah.

So you would think that's a good thing, but they're looking for him for the wrong reason. Exactly, which we've already established already in John. Among the crowds, there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, he's a good man. Others replied, no, he deceives the people, which is another thing. If you're whispering about Jesus, not biblical. If you're going to go all in, get it out there.

But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the Jews. Always go to like, you know, the golf course or my, you know, when people, the commentators are whispering. They're in a booth. Nobody can hear them. Oh, he's set up for the seventh. Look at this shot. Yeah, because they're trying to create ambience.

Like Zach does in our studio. That's why one of my biggest pet peeves is people who, when they make these deer hunting videos, but so they'll show me this footage from time to time. They're like, what do you think about this? And I'm like, I got a question. Why are you whispering? Doing a voiceover. After you shot the deer, why are you still whispering? I get it. You don't want them to hear you at first. Then you shoot the deer and they say, oh, I think that's a good one. Yeah.

Oh, it's just so annoying. He could be talking out loud. It's okay. The deer's down. You just fired a weapon that people heard for nine miles, and now you're whispering. Well, you don't want nobody to hear you. You're creating drama. And I'm saying that's what they were doing. They were creating drama, and they're whispering about Jesus. So there's a clue right there that they hadn't figured out who he is.

So then in verse 14, not until halfway through the feast did Jesus go up to the temple courts. Common theme. He keeps showing up at the temple because, you know, we know why.

He had the altercation at the temple. And you're like, what caused the altercation? Basically, when he said, I am the temple. Destroy this temple and I'll bring it back in three days. And I wonder how, Jay, and this is just me wondering, and it doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. When it says he went in secret...

Did he like, was he wearing like a robe and like a Jedi? Did he put the robe over this? I don't think it's possible. I mean, because he definitely didn't want to be noticed for a few days. I mean, so he did something. Now, he has the ability to like disappear. Is it the same thing like when he descended? He come and they was talking about him coming back after he died?

They didn't recognize who he was? Well, I don't know. Because, you know, a couple of times they went to him and up and it said all of a sudden he just was gone. But you got to think about it. Even when you think you do sins, when you're talking about the weight of your sin, when you do things that you think are secret, they're never going to be in secret. They're all coming to light. John 3 at the end says that. Everything's coming out. Yeah. And...

it's you know through guilt and shame even it affects you publicly well the same thing happens you know with jesus if you live for god in your closet in your bedroom in in the secret places of your mind yeah oh it's coming out in a public way and that's going to be a positive thing it just can't right there's there's no way to hide it so that's why he said you know you don't

You don't find a light and then put a bowl over it. So now whatever he was doing in secret, he's now teaching publicly, to your point. The Jews, verse 15, were amazed and asked, how did this man get such learning without having studied? Which is a question that I've been asked, and I took it as a compliment. I mean, to me, they'll say, well, you're smarter than you look. But I'm like, well, I have the Holy Spirit. I'm in Jesus.

So the answer here would be basically, I wrote it. I don't have to study it when I wrote it. You don't have to study the book that I wrote. Jesus Tommy taught that. But he answered saying, my teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.

which doesn't sound controversial, but for that audience, it really is. Yeah, big time. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. What a statement. Well, it really is. That's actually really interesting because if you think about, it almost seems contradictory to what I just said, but it's not because Jesus is both God and man.

And so in his humanity, he's answering, but he also claims to be God. And so this is a very interesting thing, this incarnated God in the one we know as Jesus. He says later on in John 17 that I am the Father that were one. And so if he receives this word,

from his father, the one who sent him, and then later claims to be one with the father, then we could also say that this word came from him. In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word was God. Well, right. But he also, and none of y'all mentioned this, he also answers the argument that

that we talked about a few podcasts ago, is this all for us as humans? Now, granted, he's talking to a Jewish audience here, but he makes that statement, the argument, is it God's will who does everything, or do we have a choice in the matter? That's right. And so he answers that with this sentence. He does. I've been waiting for months to get here. Yeah.

If anyone chooses to do God's will, you're like, well, is it God's will or their choice?

Are our choices involved? So the answer, you just got it. Yes. Exactly. Yes. The answer is yes. I think exactly is the best. Because you're like, well, wait a minute. Which is it? Exactly. That's what he said. Anyone chooses to do God's will. Yeah. Oh, man. That's good. That's good. There you are. That's a priest. It's red letters, so we're going to give him the credit. Yeah. And then he's like, because he expounds on that. He will find out whether my teaching is

comes from God or whether I speak on my own. So Jace, as I've gotten older, I've learned that you can learn things from a lot of different people. And I've actually learned something from you. You talk to us about Team Jace, you know, your team of people that get you where you're supposed to go. It takes a team to be able to accomplish what you're doing. Is that not right? I think it's better. Trying to do it by myself and having a team.

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And I'm really wanting to go back, I mean, before I read the rest of this, because he's going to get to this famous verse in verse 37 and 38 where he says, if anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. And then it says, whoever believes in me, as the scriptures have said, streams of living water will flow from within him. Because you've got to remember, this is all right after this.

This altercation with the woman at the well where he said, I'll give you living water. Then the John 6, after he feeds the 5,000 with the bread, and he's like, I'll give you living bread. I'll give you eternal bread. So he's given this. And what your sin is by saying this, if anyone chooses to do God's will...

And he'll find out. It's like he's setting this in your mind where you come to him and

But you leave with water just flowing out like a flood, a river. And I love those illustrations that he's using there. It's quenched plus. It's more than just quenched. Oh, it's overflowing. It's overflowing. I mean, it's like we're experiencing a flood down there. Did you see how high the water is down there? We moved two duck blinds, by the way. I hadn't told you about this. No. Oh, yeah.

You want to be in where we move the blinds to, right?

you want to be in on the first time we get in those blinds because we found the two Xs and we had to wait five years for a flood to get up to move the blind in the X. What a shame, Nation. We are now witnessing a private conversation between God and the church. Well, but the application, though, is the flowing water. Look, because what is a river at that stage? What is it doing? Why is he depicting that as the Holy Spirit coming down

Because one thing it does, it moves anything and reshapes anything in its path. Well, when you think about that being inside of you...

I mean, a flood happening in your body and going into places that need to be made more godlike, oh, it's a powerful thing. But it's also something that's coming out that can be used for moving blinds or watering the plants. Or providing water to others. Go ahead. I got to roll. I'm kind of early, but I want to make this point. I'm going to drop the mic here. I'm going to say the point, drop the mic, and leave because I have to drop the Nashville line.

Here's where this gets interesting because he's engaging in temple activity here. And you brought up the temple earlier. If you read Ezekiel 47, you'll get a vision that Ezekiel had. And the vision that Ezekiel has of the temple, guess what's flowing out of the temple? Living water, a flood. A river. A river that flows out of the temple that brings life to everything that it touches. Yes.

And then the prophet Isaiah in chapter 12 says, with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. So imagine the connection here. This is the connection here that I think was happening. Out of the temple flows water that gives life to creation. Now listen to this. In Genesis chapter 2, verse 10.

Ever looked this verse a lot, but it's so key because the original temple was the garden. That was the original temple. And listen to the verse 10. A river flowed out of Eden to water the garden. And there basically it divided and became four rivers. But we read that and we don't realize that why this matters is because we

Wherever the center of the temple is at, where God's presence is at, that's where the river of life, the stream, it'll be the spring of the river. And I know this because I know how this works because I grew up in North Florida. We have all these natural springs and they all have like what's called a boil where the water comes out of the ground where the river begins. It's the source of the river and then the river flows from that spring. So then you have that in the garden. You have that in...

Ezekiel's vision of the temple. And then later what happens is we become the temple where the Holy Spirit indwells now the believer. And what was the Jesus's instruction to the woman at the well, that if you drink the water that I had to give you, that will become a spring in you welling up to eternal life. So now I'm a temple of the Holy Spirit and

And that, but why? Because the water of life is in me. There's a spring inside the human body now that produces life and waters the garden. I think that's pretty powerful. Oh, it's real powerful. And I caused that because I skipped ahead because I couldn't wait. I got to go though. I love you guys. I'm cleaning this up. We'll clean it up. He's saying that because it was, it's a temple setting and,

And these people are not recognizing Jesus as the Christ. And he's eventually going to get to this famous statement because of verse 39, by this he meant the Spirit.

whom those who believed in him were later to receive up to that time the Spirit had not yet been given since Jesus had not yet been glorified. That's why he said his time hasn't come because true, he was talking about his death, but then that led to the resurrection, that led to him pouring out his Spirit, and that led to people surrendering to him because he's now been declared king of kings,

And you get that spirit, and he's using that analogy as this bubbling inside that just is unleashed. And I was going to read Ezekiel 47 since he brought it up. He says in Ezekiel 47, the man brought me back to the entrance of the temple, and I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple. The water was coming down from under the south side of the temple,

He then brought me through the north gate and led me around the outside, and the water was flowing. As the man, I'm just going to skip along here. As the man went eastward with a measuring line in his hand, he measured off 1,000 cubits. What is that? About 1,500 feet. And then he led me through water, and it was ankle deep. He measured off another 1,000.

And it was knee deep. He measured off another and it was waist deep because all this for us being wilderness people, it's things we've gone through because all of a sudden you start getting a little like, yeah, oh man, this is,

This is getting dangerous here, you know. Getting close to your house. Yeah. And then it says he measured off another, but now it was a river that I could not cross because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in, a river that no one could cross. And he asked me, son of man, do you see this? And then he led me back to the bank of the river. And when I arrived, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river.

And he said to me, and he starts talking about, you know, the water flows toward the eastern region. But watch this verse. This is Ezekiel 47 in verse 8, because you're like, well, how do you know this is applying to that? I mean, you've got the water, the living water, the temple, and there's no doubt John is referring to this.

Because then it says, when it empties into the Dead Sea, the water becomes fresh. Well, when you go to that region, I've been to the Dead Sea.

Nothing much fresh about it, is it? Oh, man. And you know the reason it's dead is because nothing flows out of it. It only goes in and it doesn't flow out. So here's Ezekiel hundreds of years ago using this illustration that Jesus would say, this is what it's like for the people to be indwelled by the Spirit of God. And he gives a picture of the Dead Sea.

coming to life and creatures living and trees growing. Because I'm telling you, I went to the Dead Sea and it just literally, everything around there, it's not just the sea itself. The whole place is just dead. It's in a desert. And I think that's why these people...

what Jesus was trying to do is give them a greater picture. Because here we are, we're in the wettest part of America, literally. Look at the stats. And we take it for granted how powerful the water is and what it does. Even when it doesn't rain here, if it rains up north here, this water just becomes this dangerous, uncontrollable, powerful thing that you just basically have to get out of the way of.

And then when you think that's how we are as spirit-indwelled people, I mean, what a picture of what God wants to do through you to this world, you know, and let himself be known. So it is very powerful. So Jace, what is it about persecuted Christians that inspires you, both from ancient as well as today? Well, you realize that we're called to...

be something in the name of the Lord. And so by being that, there will be resistance. And somewhere in there, we know that God is real and that we're totally dependent on him. And it's just very inspiring. It's not something we want in our lives or desire, but we know when we face it, it's something that makes us stronger and better. Our good friend Todd Nettleton, who's the voice of the Martyrs Radio host, has written a book called

called When Faith is Forbidden, 40 Days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. And it's really just a journal of 20 years of him traveling in restricted nations and running up on these people, these Christians, these brothers and sisters who have been persecuted because of their faith.

And it's very inspirational for us to hear their stories, to see how unwavering they are in their faith. Each stop along the journey gives us an ability to reflect our own life and also challenge us. So we don't want you to miss out on the opportunity to be inspired by the stories. And they're offering the book for free. You can request your free copy of When Faith is Forbidden by calling 844-825-8255.

That's 844-463-4059. Or you can visit vom.org slash unashamed. That stands for Voice of the Martyrs, a great organization. vom.org slash unashamed.

So then in Revelation 22, and look, this is, we did a guy on a podcast a couple weeks ago about all these jewels that are described as the bride of Christ.

I love that. Look, I've actually had one person say, oh, you were wrong about that. I was in a grocery store. They're like, no, that's a picture of heaven. I'm like, nope, read it again. I just gave no grace or mercy in that moment. You didn't go, I could be wrong. You just said, no. I just said, nope, go back and read it again. You missed it. It is a depiction of the bride of Christ, human beings, of which we are. And then

To give some validation here in chapter 22, look what he brings up. This is right after in 21, 22, it says, I did not see a temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. You know what? There's no sun or there's no light. You know why? Because the Lamb of God is the light. Right?

And so then 22, you say, what about this river? This is the last chapter in the Bible. Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life. This is just what we've been talking about all in John. I mean, John 4, now in John 7, and it says, as clear as crystal. You know why? Because the Lamb purified this river.

You can drink it. That's why he told the woman at the well, you drink of this water, you'll never be thirsty again. Which is so awesome because you come to him thirsty again.

And you leave out in this world overflow. It's a flood. There's a flood. I mean, just people appreciate that if they've seen floods and we see them all the time. Which in the illustration of the woman who was hiding out at the well, who then goes back and brings the whole town out to see him, is that's not a flood. I don't know what was. That's why I said this can't be, that happened in the secret place, which is inside you.

And that's why this verse is so frequently missed because he's like, well, up until that time, the Spirit hadn't been given. You know, in John 7, people are like, what are they talking about? The Holy Spirit. It starts on Genesis 1. It says the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters and the Holy Spirit came upon him. But it was always over there or on them. But now he's like, now it'll be...

In you, in human beings. Yeah. And it's described as a flood that flows out. Well, where's it flowing to? The Dead Sea. Well, look out in our world. That's a good description. Yeah. That is the analogy. And I'll finish reading this.

It says, flowing from the throne of God. Well, now you're getting into this temple language again. Heaven and earth is now connected through what Jesus accomplished and is doing now through Spirit-filled people.

Down the middle of the great street of the city on each side of the river stood the tree of life and bearing what? Crops of fruit. So think of all the analogies Jesus made in the gospels about a tree has good fruit, a bad tree doesn't have fruit. It's all tied into the Holy Spirit flowing out of people. Curse the tree that won't bear fruit. And then you have this tree of life language, which you're going back to the garden. Remember the tree of life? That was kind of a temporary thing.

that was keeping them eternal. Right. I mean, why was it there? Yeah. Even though they hadn't sinned, they were still eating of that tree of life. That was keeping them alive. And by the way, whatever was in it,

was pretty powerful because even after they quit eating it, they lived to be like 900 years. Yeah. And what's crazy is by Jesus' death on a tree, it becomes the tree of life because he forgave us of our sins. It's now dealt with, which then removed the power of all these idols because you're...

That's causing sinful behavior because you're bowing down to a God that's not God. That's right. And so by death, he conquered that, and it became a tree of life for us that produced a flood of sin.

image-bearing people, which is crazy. So that's kind of the overall narrative of why he said that. It's not a complex thing. It's a thrilling thing that he's introducing here. And he not only used water, he used in his illustration in John 6 of the feeding the same concept about food.

And he says the same thing. And remember, it was an overflow there because he fed 10,000 people. And then they look around, they said, oh, wait, there's more? Yeah, 12 basketfuls more. It just keeps coming. God was trying to reach the nations, and he's going to do it through Jesus Christ and what he accomplished. And then you receiving as humans, right?

The spirit of him that did what he's doing. Because you've got to remember, Jesus is full of the Holy Spirit here. And what's the first thing that happened? Mary's baptized. The spirit descends on him. Then he's tempted like we all are. And he defeated the evil one in the little temptation narrative.

And then he goes out and begins his ministry. Right. And I didn't say this at the time, Jason. We were studying it back in John 6. But N.T. Wright thinks that's why John put that story in there about Jesus walking across that stormy night, walking on the water. It's in between him explaining the feeding of the fat when he actually fed him when he was doing it. He said it was just like the crossing of the Red Sea.

Which I never had put that together, but I thought, man, what a great... For the disciples to understand what it's about. I agree. So to get back to where we're reading, and I'll just read it, and we'll get into the details, because we went to the end, and now we're going back. Verse 18 of John 7, He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth. There's nothing false about him, which he's talking about himself. Correct.

He's here on God's behalf. He's God's son.

Has not Moses, verse 19, he goes back to illustration about Moses. Would you say 19 times he brings up Moses? I think 13. Has not Moses given you the law, yet not one of you keeps the law? Why are you trying to kill me? Which seems to come out of nowhere, that question. But it really doesn't because it goes in with the fact that they're going to all these festivals. Exactly. They're disciples of Moses because he's going to say this. And look at their response.

You're demon-possessed, the crowd answered. Who's trying to kill you? And Jesus said to them, which is very clever, I did one miracle and you are all astonished. Which if you just think about the power of that statement, which I always do this for fun when people say, do you believe in miracles? They're meaning modern-day miracles. And I always say the same thing. And I get it from this verse. I say, well, I believe in at least one.

And they never know what I'm talking about. I'm specifically talking about the resurrection. But I'm saying...

I'm with the one who can do all the miracles. I mean, if he could do one. I really don't have to believe one. That's enough for me. Because any other situation where I'm in need of a miracle, he has the ability to pull that off. Do you really need any more than that one? It's actually more powerful a statement than you realize. Because if you're just looking for a miracle, it's kind of like what they were doing. They were following him because they were looking for a meal.

I mean, they're like, oh, yeah, that was a great miracle. Now you got, can you do it again? Where's some more of that? I want to eat some of that fish. I mean, they're missing the whole point. But aren't you saying to them, Jase, exactly what Jesus told Thomas when he was reaching at the scars and he was feeling them? He said, blessed are you who will not see and believe. That's what you're talking about. Exactly. So I'm going to just read the end of this. Yeah, because Moses gave you circumcision, though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs, you circumcise a child on the Sabbath.

Now, if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses

may not be broken. Why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? And he's going back to what happened in John 5. Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment. Now, we'll get into the details about why he used that analogy, but read it, think about it, and when we come together, the conclusion you should have is Jesus is the Son of God. Right.

Exactly. John, it's always a pleasure having you on Unashamed.

I love it. Did you feel like you're just grabbing the tail of the tiger and just hanging on? I got to go back and listen now. Well, but you made the statement that without knowing. You started it. That's right. When you said, who do you think Jesus is? That's right. Which is the same argument he's making 2,000 years ago to these groups of people involved. You finally believe that Jesus is who he said he is.

Yeah. What a line. I love it. All right, Johnny G, we'll see you next time. See you guys next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.