Ep 1094 | Miss Kay Makes a New Friend, Phil Shines with the Holy Spirit & Jase Sees God’s Glory in It
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Jace has a pillow behind his chair. You've been having some back issues yet? He was literally laid out, Zach, in the floor when I walked in a minute ago in between our recordings today. And things were popping. I thought finally that the fire that's behind Jace was popping and crackling like a fire does, you know, with real wood. Yeah.

And then I realized it was Jace's back that was doing all the popping and cracking. I was oblivious that y'all were watching me in my vulnerable state. I was on this carpet trying to get my back to stop hurting. But there was a song in my head, which is why that I was oblivious to y'all's presence. And do you want to know what song it was? Of course. I can't drive 55.

So that's my age if you don't get the connection because my back is hurting. So I got a wobbly wheel. And I would say, oh, there's some story behind it. Nope. Sitting on a couch or a swing preparing for a lesson. Well, we did. One thing you may have done, Chase, because I thought I might have done it yesterday too, and in the last podcast we talked about Chase preaching on Mother's Day, but we also went to visit mom, of course, on Mother's Day because she and dad are living together and

And so you kind of got to help mom and dad around. That's true. So you probably did, because I, so we kind of did the shift work yesterday. Yeah. Because Jace and Missy, Missy went early. Jace came after his sermon. I think Jeff and Jess popped in there at some point. They were there when I got there. I think Missy was there. Missy. Everybody showed up. Well, then we came late. We did the late shift, which is always a little. Y'all brought the hamburgers? We brought hamburgers for dinner and Missy had cooked for lunch. So they ate well yesterday.

They ate well. And I will say that there's a gentleman. You know, in this facility, the boundaries of personal space aren't always...

People don't always recognize those. And so, and including mom and dad, because one time a few weeks ago, dad rolled mom into someone else's room and then got in their bed and went to sleep. They weren't in the room. And so you had these issues happen in this unit. And so this gentleman who we've met several times, and he's a nice enough guy, but he likes to just every once in a while wander through and see what's happening because he hears us talking. And so he comes in and

Mom looks at me and kind of rolls her eyes. And I said, hey there, buddy. He said, what are y'all doing? And mom said, we're having a party. It's Mother's Day. And he said, well, that's not fair. And she said, life's not fair, sir. Laughter

And then he just meandered his way on through, you know, and I just thought, well, I guess mom just tells him like it is. Yeah, that's true. But a lot of you sent notes about mom and which I appreciate. And she was doing great yesterday. Dad was kind of in and out, but mom was doing great. Well, she's doing better. And I actually had a story that I did not share in the sermon yesterday.

about my mom. I did share a couple funny stories, which we talked about on the last podcast and we won't get into it again. But I had one at the end because it was a touching story that happened while they're here. And it's a great facility. It's like little...

little cabins and homes, you know. Yeah, they're like little apartments. It's like a little, it feels like a little apartment complex. It's just all in one big area. Yeah. And so, and they've kind of realized now at this point they need it. And so, but my dad's not been doing well at all and just physically and mentally. But even yesterday, you know, because you're having, he's not real mobile physically.

And so I was moving him around at his request, you know. And even though he doesn't weigh, you know, what he once did, I mean, it's pretty hard to. Because he can't really help you. Yeah, he can't help you. And it's sad. And we get it, us telling y'all. We're so close to it that it's just kind of the new normal.

And we realize this is the only information you guys get about him. And I know you pray for him and pray for us. And I just want to say thank you again because I know how much mom and dad mean to you guys. So thank you. Yeah. And he's mostly out of it. But, you know, there was a five-minute period I was telling you about that it was really, it felt supernatural. Yeah.

because he's been struggling so much. But he just kind of perked up there, and we had a little five-minute conversation that ended in him sneezing, which for some reason he thought was hilarious, and it became contagious because it was the first time in quite a while that I've seen him smile and laugh. So it was really nice, and you appreciate that. And we're not—

you know denying god's providence i mean i i preached about abraham and sarah having a kid when they were 190 so anything god wants to do we're ready but you know you you actually just live in a world where you're seeing what's happening and uh it's just he's just not doing real well i i just i just think he's you know getting ready for the journey

to the other side. But we're convinced that we're all going to be, I mean, God's promise is forever. And so... And this thing about us talking about a lot when heaven comes to earth, and once you now are in that lifestyle of living Christ on earth with the Holy Spirit living inside of you, is eternity has already begun for us. I mean, that's our mindset. So this transition over to wait for the resurrection is just part of that process. So...

It doesn't mean you don't grieve. I mean, Zach, your dad came down last week with his wife, Ann, and visited. And just that first time you see him, it's emotional. But at the same time, we all have the same mindset. We understand about eternity. And that begins now, the idea. So we're just transitioning. So that's all part of it. So Jace didn't mention it because he talked about it on the podcast, but I will mention it briefly that he told the story of –

Me getting a Wonder Woman poster because I was a huge Wonder Woman fan. That was my humor part of the sermon. It was really good. And when I was in middle school, and so Jace was pretty young. And Mom, you know, we've said this before, she went in and painted some pants on her because those bloomers, those blue bloomers with the white stars were a little much for Mom. But Al, she blacked out the cleavage. And the cleavage, yeah. And I was a young man, but I thought...

Well, man, you took out the best part. And I didn't even know why at that age, but I thought... I mean, you were only seven or eight. I was like about 12. So I understood fully why that was the best part. And so Jay's told that to set up, and he's told this before too on the podcast, that he bought a bumper sticker with his own money, like I did my poster.

that said, I'm surrounded by idiots. And he put it on his wall. A mom just ripped it off and threw it away. And it got angry. It was one of the more angrier moments of our childhood, which, and my point was, I had justified that by thinking that

Well, you didn't rip down Al's Wonder Woman poster because the bumper sticker. She would have just marked out idiots and put in something. And this happened years later. But I went back to that thinking, well, you set the precedent. I mean, is he your favorite? And he's like, of course. Of course.

because she was so angry about that, which now I understand it. And I made the point in the sermon, which is, you know, we're a family, and I'm trying to teach you how to be respectful. But it so encapsulates Jace and Mom's relationship really the whole time because just a few years ago,

jay said something mom said something about them not getting along when jace was young and jay said well carrie you just didn't get any of my jokes that's why we didn't get along you weren't getting my humor and it was so funny it was like but that's i i totally get that bumper sticker from jace's perspective he was surrounded by idiots but for mom that was like no sir no how we're not doing that we

We can fix Wonder Woman, but we can't fix that. To finish my thought earlier, so I was going to tell a story at the end, Al. You're a sermon prep guy. Yep. Oh, and it was very, it kind of tickled the emotional. Because it's Mother's Day, I did this whole sermon about family, so I had this as the closing story. Really? You bumped it? I bumped it because when I saw it,

I got a little, you know how you feel like. Oh, you get the little lump in there. I said, nope, I don't have time for this. You know, I just couldn't do it because I thought I've gone 32 minutes and not that this was, it's only a minute story, but I thought based on everything I just said, because you know how it is. This is crazy.

I mean, I'm up there for the Lord God above. That's who I'm representing. And I have to tell myself that because at heart, somebody sent me an interesting message on my phone because they know my background, that I was shy. And this is not, it was actually Robert Ables. And this is all of the spirit of the Lord. So I have to tell myself constantly, but I say it.

in my own personal space to God. In fact, when I walked out from the sermon, I actually said, I probably shouldn't have said this. Well, I realize how this looks. I'm talking to myself walking across the parking lot, but I was talking to the Lord God Almighty. I was like, I shouldn't have said that, Lord. I'm sorry. Because one time I said something and I said, that might be controversial.

And I got to thinking about that when I walked out. I thought, well, why would I say that? Sometimes something, because it was biblical what I said. Right.

And when you draw attention to it. Sometimes you can make it controversial. Yeah, by saying that. And I thought, you know, I shouldn't have said that. Lord, it's your truth. And I was speaking to the Lord. What's funny is there was a guy looking at me because I had just spoken. Yeah. And I know he was thinking, this guy will come out talking to himself after that. He probably said he's just like his Uncle Sal. That's what he said. I was talking to the Lord, sir.

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Holy Spirit running through me and energy and talking about family. And I told the bad, you know, like every family has the good, bad, and the ugly. But about a week ago, you know, I walked into where my parents are. And there's a little common area, and then they have their own little living area. And then they have their rooms, which they turn one of their rooms into a living room. I mean, look, they're doing pretty good. Kay says that. She's like, it's so awesome that they built this place for us.

Well, she told me yesterday, she said, you know, Al, what I really like about our setup is we're just, we can like sit in here and visit in our office. She said her office. And then we can sleep next door. And I said, mom, that's amazing. That's really good. So anyway, I walked in and she said, hurry, come with me. I got to show you something. And I was, now look, when my parents' mental condition and how old they are,

When they say, come here, I want to show you something, that can be dangerous. And so I was nervous. Of course, she couldn't move. I was like, well, let me get you a wheelchair. And so I wheeled her down, and we go into their little personal living quarter. And I was nervous about it because I thought, what is she fixing to show me? And so she said, stop right here. And so she was looking out the window, and I thought, oh, she's going to show me something outside.

I'm looking. She said, now you see that little rose? These little rose bushes? She called them rose bushes. It just looked like a bowl. Of flowers, yeah. That one of her...

We have a group called the Kingdom Moms, and they visit them every night. I think there's 14 women. And cook a meal. And we do a lot of our visiting with those people. And there are 14 women that my mom had tremendous influence on. Yeah, these are all ones that she mentored, and now they get a chance to serve her, which is awesome. Yeah, and they're fantastic. Yeah.

One of them had made this little flower arrangement that's right outside the window. Well, when she said- My mom told me yesterday she bought it at Walmart a week ago. So she said, just wait for it. I'm not kidding. When she said, wait for it, this bird with a spider in its beak descended on the little bowl of flowers. It was like-

It got the memo that she was fixed to show me, and it was like, cue the bird. Bird comes. She said, she's feeding her babies. And so the bird went down, and we couldn't see the babies under all the brush, but it disappeared. Well, then it popped back out and then took off again. And she's like, she'll be right back.

Well, the bird flew 100 yards and lit on the fence that divides the property. And I was thinking to myself, that bird ain't coming back anytime soon. It wasn't. It kind of disappeared on the other side, like fluttered down. It wasn't 10 seconds. She's like, there he is. Or she said, there he is. But I said, there she is. She's like, well, you know what I meant.

And it had a cricket in its mouth. I thought, what a hunter this thing is. I mean, it's just like, you want food? Out of my way. And she said, so that ought to bring back some memories. Yeah.

But it kind of touched me in the moment because I thought... She was that mama bird that fed you. Yeah, she had this... Don't forget where your food came from, son. Yeah, she had this illustration in her mind. She had obviously been thinking about it because as soon as I walked in, she was like, come here, I need to show you something. And then it just queued up on cue in time and...

I thought, I actually think that that was a very God-led encounter that I just watched. That's so funny because I had a similar experience yesterday being there because we were looking out the window and the mama bird was doing the same thing. And she would bring in something. And also Papa Bird came by for a visit too. And he got down in there with the chicks. But it was really interesting because...

I just learned this by watching some video someone sent me that when these little birds, they poop, they poop in a little bitty, it's almost like a little sack so that the mom can take it away. And I'd never seen that in the wild until yesterday.

She brought in food. She went in. She fed them. And then she took off with a little white sack, which was the refuse from the little baby birds. So once again, mom, not only do they help feed you, but they help make sure you're clean as well. They change you as well. They change you. Speaking of taking care of moms here, we're going to break the fourth wall here. I'm probably going to have to leave in about 10 minutes because my wife –

who's the mother of my children, may have appendicitis. So I got to take her to get a CAT scan. Now you have it. Yeah, they do. Actually, she sent me a text while we were recording and said, what was your appendix pain like? Because my appendix blew up a few years ago. And I told her what it was like. And she said, I may have to go in. They do a CAT scan. If you leave, we'll carry on. I'm going to leave in 10 minutes whenever she gets dropped off up here. And then.

That's fine. Well, you want to make sure you get that taken care of because what you don't want it to happen is rupture because then you got all kinds of long-term issues, which is what I have. So I told that story because I wrote down, and maybe it was the Holy Spirit. So I was going to say, you know, then I was going to address because I knew my mom was watching because Missy was with her and was streaming it. And I was going to say thank you, you know,

To my mom, I was going to be personal, but that's why I got a little choked up because I knew I had to get to that. And I was going to say, thank you for being God's glue and propulsion to help us fly. Yeah. And so that was...

And then I was going to make a comment about that. You know, she, she did that based on the spirit of God and her following Jesus. She was trying to get that into us at an early age. So that was, that was kind of the idea about it, but I wanted to share it. And since I, I was going to save it for the sermon, but, uh,

I just thought, I'm going to be a basket case if I do that. It was too raw in the moment. You know, it's funny, Jay, because Lisa and I were speaking somewhere recently, and sometimes, depending on how much time we have with an audience, and we were doing a full marriage event, so we had a lot of time, like three different segments of time. And so sometimes we'll tell Phyllis' story and how she came into our lives and the bonding that happens and everything that goes with that.

And I was telling the story about the first time that Phyllis and Tony got to speak with Lisa and I at an event last year in Indiana. And she was sharing, like, I mean, she and I have talked a lot, but she was sharing some stuff I had never heard. Because, you know, we still were learning 44 years of history from this woman who's our sister.

And she was in this moment of us doing at this marriage event she was speaking at. She talked about some things that had happened in her young life that I did not know about. And they really hit me strong. And so I just didn't think about it. I just kind of went into it, you know, in front of this audience talking about it. And I mean, it hit me hard.

And I just couldn't hardly like get myself back. So I totally get what you're saying. And sometimes you just know, like as soon as you get into your, uh, Oh yeah. I'm like, no, not going to happen today. I've stepped into it. It's here where, you know, what am I going to do? Well, cause I really just thought if I start this, I don't, I don't think I can get through it. And I didn't want it to be that awkward, but I wanted to share that because my whole point is, I love it. Uh,

You know, it does make you thankful of what the Lord did in destroying this enemy. You know, he views death as an enemy. Yeah. He says that in 1 Corinthians 15. He says the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Yeah. Where's that in 1 Corinthians 15? When he hands over the kingdom to the Father. Let's get the exact verse on that because it's...

I think we tend to always think, well, the enemy, we have an enemy. Is that the death has been swallowed up? Is it 54? 1526. Okay. Because it says it again at the end, too. Yeah, it says, you know, in verse 22, it says, for as in Adam all die. Ever since Adam and Eve...

And you remember the conversation, the evil one who is also an enemy. But what is he known for being the ruler of the realm of the dead? Because that was his whole plan. Once he fell from his role and didn't image God, well, what is he going to do? He's going to destroy God's plan. And I believe, you know, you can make a case from scripture is that's why God

the evil one and all his entourage are doing this. They're trying to delay the plan of God because the longer they delay,

the more they can exist because they're ultimately going to be destroyed. And I think it's interesting that that is one enemy, but the other, we don't look at death as an enemy because it says in 23 of 15, but each in his own turn, Christ, the first fruits. Then when he comes, those who belong to him, well, there we are. Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God, the father.

After he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. There's that reference to the evil one and his entourage. But then watch where he goes. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies. Well, I thought that was all of his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. Death itself is then destroyed. Right. Which is kind of obvious, but we don't think about it because we're going to live forever. Right.

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Some people say, well, what's going to happen then? What's to cause this from all happening again? Because he will destroy death itself. Which is kind of the picture he paints. Is it in Romans 5 where he gives you the two pictures of the two men, Adam and Christ? Yeah. Same exact line of thinking. I mean, you've got death that comes through one because of sin, and those are combined together. But then you have life.

It comes through the other that then defeats death, which is the old custom. Well, and the only difference is some is, you know, when Adam, they're all going to die. Right. But in Christ, you know, it says he died for everyone. 2 Corinthians 5, which is a very interesting verse, says when he died, therefore all died. Yeah. It was then made available to all. I don't know how. I know there are some religious groups that have trouble with that. Right. But...

That's what it says. Right. But it doesn't mean that you're going to surrender to the Lord. Right. Which just seems like a no-brainer. Right. I mean, there's a way not to die. Are you in? It's through Jesus. And people say, nope, I'm going to take my chances. That's not it. That's not a good way of thinking. That's not a good strategy. Yeah. I agree. So...

To segue into John, I guess we can just go on without that. I think he is officially taking his lovely wife. He's officially taking his wife, which let's say a quick prayer for that while we're here. Father, just want to stop. And as we always do, we want to keep the communication lines open with you.

I'm praying for Jill today. I know she's having some pain. If it is some sort of appendix issue, Father, just pray they'll identify it and can deal with that quickly. If it's something else, Father, just bring her relief. Be with Zach. When Mama Bear is having trouble, the whole family is having trouble. So let's bless them in a special way. We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. And I know we're going to move to John, and we're done with my sermon. But one point I did not make since you said that prayer, I feel led to do this.

One of the things that God gives his family from, and I made this point ad nauseum, but use it, the Father is for us. Romans 8, if God is for us, who can be against us? And in love, he started this whole thing.

And, you know, based on what we read in Ephesians 3, you know, when Paul said, for this reason, I kneel before the Father from whom the whole family in heaven and on earth derives this name. And there's a lot about prayer in Ephesians. But it's either Paul praying or, you know, when he gets to chapter 6, I mean, we have this armor of God and he keeps bringing up prayer. He's like, verse 18, pray in the spirit on all occasions.

with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying. Verse 19, pray also for me. And I had two verses that I didn't read, but it was based on the point that in Christ is where God and humans meet, heaven and earth coming together, being connected. Jesus in heaven representing us. We're representing him because he's given us his spirit.

But there's also a perspective of that about the Father, because in Ephesians 2, 18, and I want to read this, because what you just did in prayer is based on that fact, what I just read. It says, for through him, we both, talking about Jews and Gentiles coming together as a new people, we both have access to

To the Father. Yeah. By one spirit. Yeah. Then he says in 312, right before he literally prays that I'm going to read that. But in 312, he says, I ask you. Now, this is the next mystery. Talking about the church is going to make known to the heavenly realms what God has done and his wisdom.

which he accomplished in Christ Jesus. That's verse 11. So then verse 12, it says in Christ, in him and through faith in him,

we may approach God with freedom and confidence. I mean, it's something I didn't notice when we studied Ephesians. We talk about in Christ, we talk about he's given his spirit, but he's also addressing God being for you. And now you have access through Jesus humbling himself and through the spirit humbling himself.

himself as a spirit pointing and teaching about Jesus, you know, while he's in your literal body. So I did in Romans five echoes that. I was saying, I turned it over to Romans five because it says at the beginning, because I mentioned later about Adam and Christ, but in the first part of Romans five, we have been justified through faith. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we have gained access to

by faith into this grace in which we now stand and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. And he talks about all the things you build into. And then it made me think, Jason, later, and I mention this a lot when it comes to prayer because I agree with you 100%.

Because you think about it, we talk about, you talked about sin in relationship to death. But, you know, when Smith taught us about this condition we have, he added a third one in there, which is still very relevant until the final resurrection, and that's weakness.

Because we're not, you know, we still have moments, right? Well, that's, you know, Paul deals with that in Romans 8, 26, when he says, which is a great, Romans 8 is a great conqueror text. But he says, in the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes with groans and words that cannot be expressed. And he searches our hearts constantly.

because he knows the mind of the Spirit, because he intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. And so I like that idea that even in weakness, when we're unsure about things, we still have confidence because of that access that comes about by the results of the Holy Spirit. So it's not only sin and death, but also in weakness, all those, the deity itself, himself, is helping us through that process. Yeah, and you declaring that...

through prayer. That's why he didn't just say pray, which he did many times when he was talking about the armor of God. He went through each aspect of the armor. But when he got to praying, he said it multiple times. And he had showed you examples of

When he said early on in chapter 1 where he prayed that you would know him better, which is how God revealed himself in Jesus. So that's part of it. But then when he prayed in that, I mean, that's one of the greatest prayers in the Bible. In verse 16, he says, I pray of chapter 3, I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his spirit in your inner being.

So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you being rooted and established in love. Well, there's going back to the father. It goes back to Ephesians 1, 4. In love, he predestined us. And there's a lot of people, they argue about, you know, what predestination means. And I'm like, okay,

And that's fine, which I believe it's God's plan in Christ, which I clearly preached on. But I'm like, wherever you start, the root of it is love. It's the Father's love. And so then it says that they may have power together with all the saints to grasp how wide and long

and high and deep is the love of Christ. And to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. He wouldn't write that if God wasn't for you. That's right. So that's why I think it's awesome that your immediate response was,

Well, let's pray about this. Exactly. Because you're unsure and you don't know. And that's when you need to understand God. It's interesting. There was a lady yesterday when we met together that came and told me that she had been to visit dad since the last time I had seen her. Because she didn't live here anymore, but she was in town. And she said, you know, I prayed over your dad and mom. But she said, when I did...

He grabbed my hand, and he said something about, gosh, you couldn't exactly understand. And I thought, well, you know, that's weird because from time to time, I will pray over dad as well. And he'll usually pat me on the hand and say, you did good. You did good. And it's interesting. Even when your mind is broken, our physical bodies, which includes our mind,

this Holy Spirit of God is still living in you. And so it is interesting, even in Dad's case with dealing with what he deals with, that somehow through the Holy Spirit, those moments of prayer, he has an understanding of a spiritual connection, even though his mind is broken. It doesn't work the way it used to work. And I always think, what a beautiful thing to think that the Holy Spirit can carry us, not just through cancer, through heart failure or whatever, but even through the losing of our mind.

The Holy Spirit's still there. He's still protecting you. He's still guiding you. He's still counseling you. And even though you're in a weakened state because of whatever reason, the Holy Spirit is still there communicating with the Almighty. I mean, it's a really comforting picture when you think about it and how it works. No, I agree. That made me think, because we were talking about the resurrection earlier and ending death itself. You know, Romans 8 is, I mean, it's got to be top five chapters that we're going with if you can only have five.

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And I mean, he starts talking about we're children, you know, and it says in verse 17 of 8, it says, if we're children, then we're heirs, heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Because, you know, life is filled with suffering. Even Paul writing his letter, you know, where he said all this about praying and praying and praying and then, you know, pray for me. He was...

chained in prison yeah and you know people read that was like well sounds like god's not listening how come he's he's chained up and i think these kind of verses make more sense in that moment that when you take home the powers that are against god there will be resistance yeah i mean there's different forms of suffering you know god uses discipline you know to hebrews uh

12 talks about that, you know. But there's also the evil one trying to make you stop talking, which is why he would just kill people. He was a murderer from the beginning. That's why most of the guys in the New Testament were martyred, I think, all but one. And so, I mean, life is going to be filled with suffering. But then he goes on to talk about our future glory, and he gets into this, even talking about the creation itself, which...

Now through the years, I've kind of changed my opinion on this because I'm kind of a new heaven and new earth guy. I realize that phrase is used just as a new world. I mean, even talking about when the temple would be destroyed, he was like, there'll be a new heaven and new earth. Immediately everybody thinks, oh, this is at the end. But it was a new world for Israel. But I do think Revelation 21 and Romans 8 here, I mean, God is pretty good.

at creating things. And he's really good at newly creating things, which is what he does. Recreating, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Ephesians 4 talks about that. He's talking about put on the new self. So I'm at the point now where, and throw in the fact that Jesus post-resurrection was eating fish with his disciples.

I'm like, I'm more of a new heaven and new earth. Whatever it's going to be, the place, I just think it's a, whether you want to call it a new earth or a renovated old one, I mean, it's not like that's a problem for him. I mean, he can create man from dirt and all the stars and all just at the snap of his fingers. But anyway, it talks about all that to get to my point. And it says in verse 23, verse,

Romans 8, not only so, but we ourselves who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons. And then it's a curious phrase because it says the redemption of our bodies. And it's like even though we're sons now because we have the Spirit, we've surrendered to Jesus, we're

It's like that's the now not yet kind of picture of what these acts of the whole Bible narrative shows, that at some point we're officially adopted because we now have a body that can't die. But what I find interesting is then he segues and uses the same terminology that

So he says, verse 24, for in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is no hope at all because we don't have our new bodies yet. So then it says, in the same way, he makes a transition here, which I think is very important. The Spirit helps us in our weakness. Now that goes to what you said about the Father. Yeah. Back to Romans 5, and watch what he starts talking about. We do not know what we ought to pray for. Right.

Who hadn't struggled there? All right. I'm not even sure which question to ask. Exactly. But then it says, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us. And this is the phrase I wanted to get when you brought up dad. With groans that words cannot express, we tend to think, well, evidently the Spirit is doing that. But even in our frailties and sufferings, and my dad sometimes groaning, and you have no idea what he's talking about. Right.

you know that the Spirit is working in those moments. Exactly. And so what I really find fascinating is it goes on to 27 and says, And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. And all of this that I'm reading makes so much sense when you look at the Lord's Prayer when Jesus said, Our Father...

And he prayed that the kingdom of heaven would come on earth as it is in heaven. Well, what's he talking about? He hadn't even died, been buried and raised, but he was looking forward to this connection that human beings would have as being members of the kingdom, which I find fascinating. It's like the kingdom is all over the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And, you know, Jesus himself in March, like the kingdom is at hand. John the Baptist, the kingdom is at hand. And it goes through all these things about the kingdom won't come visibly. You won't look at a place and say, here it is or there it is because the kingdom is within you. And that Mark 9 1 says, some of you will not taste death before you see the kingdom coming.

So it's all this language, but nobody ever says what it is. Right. Have you noticed that? He didn't say, oh, wait a minute, time out. And nobody asked him. It was like, what do you mean by that? Yeah. And so I think the reason is, is this aspect of it is, yeah, I would define the kingdom as where the king is reigning. Well, he does it now because he gives you his spirit.

He's reigning at the right hand of God on our behalf. And you see this connection on the planet because human beings now are representing him. But it's also going to happen later, which is what I just read above. I mean, he's the one that made this segue. It's like we have we grown emberly waiting to get our bodies. But we also when is that? That's not yet.

but we've grown now, but you still are under that authority of God. And so I think it's a beautiful picture. And from there, he launches into what Ephesians does, which I think this is an unusual take, but when you stop and think about it, you realize that God, what's he doing now? Well, one thing we know he's doing, I just read it, but then he says, and we know that

which this is a much debated verse because the Greek is kind of tricky here, but it says, you know, the NIV, if I just read it, it says, and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. Well, what do people do? They immediately say, they read this verse when something goes bad. Yeah. This is like the go-to verse. But after what I just read about spirit-filled people,

having trouble with you know what to pray for and they're groaning and he started this whole section off that i read about a suffering and so what i think when you look at what the actual greek is and i got this from uh nt right who got it from somebody else these scholars got together he said there's a the the greek seems to say well let me read it like mine says and then

how they translate it. We know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. And the NT Wright, he prefaced his thoughts on it by saying, but he just got through saying about him working in us through his Holy Spirit. And they broke down the Greek. You can go look this up on your own and see.

But he had the Greek reading, and we know that in all things God works with, for the good, with those who love him. It's some version of that. It's like he's working with you. And people, I think the reason they don't like that translation is because, well, who are you? You're a sinful, you know, good-for-nothing person.

But it's in the context that he's giving you his spirit, and it's interceding for you with groan that there's this, we're still human beings with our old self wanting to rear its ugly head. And that made a light bulb come on for me, kind of like what Paul was praying. Here he was saying, pray for me that I'll share the gospel fearlessly. Right.

As an ambassador, you know. Well, you say, well, was he struggling with that? He's chained to a wall. That's right. You know what I mean? That's right. But look, was God working with him? Yes, God has a job for us today.

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Think about all the passages where, like Ephesians 2, it talks about salvation by God's grace, and he's given us the gift of Jesus. And then the next thing it says is, for God's got work for you to do. Created before the creation of the world for you to be his workmanship. And so I think that's what this is talking about, because then it says, for those God foreknew, he also predestined for wine.

to be conformed to the likeness of his son. Be Jesus on the earth. You have the spirit. Sure, you're going to suffer. It's like God's plan was for him to make a bunch of mini-Jesuses. And so then it makes sense of Ephesians 4.10 and all the times in John, John 14 through 16, where Jesus said, I got to leave. I got to go to the Father. I got to go. You don't understand. I have to leave. I have to leave. And then he's like, but I'm going to give you my spirit.

Well, then when you read Ephesians 4.10, it makes sense because it's like he ascended so that he might fill the universe. Because if he stayed here, he's just one guy.

What's he going to do? Doorknock every society? But if he goes to the right hand of God and gives us this access to God, he then can pour out his spirit, which can go into multiple human beings and then reach the whole world. Now we're getting back to Matthew 28, where he's like going to the world and make disciples of all nations. So then it says...

For those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his son, that he might be the firstborn among the brothers. And those he predestined, he also called. Well, how did he call you?

Through the gospel of Jesus. Exactly. Which is the people who I think are confused about this, they don't understand Romans 10. They spend a lot of time in Romans 9. Romans 10 says, how can someone hear... Unless they've been called. Unless somebody calls them. Faith comes through hearing the message, Romans 10, 17. So it started making sense that Jesus is the call. He called you through Jesus. So then...

Those he called, he justified, just as you had never sinned. Because when you hear the story of Jesus, you're like, oh, he paid for my sins on a cross. He came back from the dead. That's the first access point. That's it. But then there's more. Then he justified. And those he justified, he also glorified, which I think causes confusion because everybody's like, well, we're not going to be glorified until we get our new body.

But he just said, I'm going to give you the new body, but you have the spirit now. Exactly. So now you have to argue, if you don't even entertain what I'm saying, is that some glorification didn't happen to you when God entered your body via the Holy Spirit. I would call that glory. Yeah, exactly. They're like, why are you so excited? Why are you singing praises? Because I have the spirit. Right. I've been glorified. Right.

And the thing about it, Jay, is that it even goes back in the Old Testament. Remember when Moses would have the presence of God would be near him and it says the glory of God would come upon him and he would be glowing? Well, he was a long ways away from realizing the Holy Spirit and Jesus, but it was all there. 100%. It was all there.

And I wasn't prepared to go through my new take on Romans 8, but since Zach left, I thought, well, wait on John. And I've been itching to do this, and I'm doing it off the top of my head. And look, go study it for yourself. But where this goes from here, it makes more sense. Because then he says in 31, look, we're back to God the Father's role. It says, what then shall we say in response to this? I'm just going to stop because he's like –

How do you respond to the, of all the things that he could say? And there's so many arguments about what this means, you know, watch what he says. You know, how do you respond? If God is for us, who can be against us? Yep. Which is my whole point of saying this all started with God, God's love. Right. Saying, I want a family. Yeah. And here's how it's going to start. And so he, you know, sent Jesus, uh,

to rescue their family. Sins is spirit to ensure that you can live forever and have this help along the way. And if you think about using those terms you just used, you think justified being related to sin and its nature, sanctified being related to weakness and indwelling, and glorified being related to living forever,

in resurrection, both before it actually happens and after. I mean, that takes care of all of our problems. Well, then he says that because, look, then in verse 32 it says, he who did not spare his own son. I mean, it's not he who didn't spare his son. He gave his son up, which is something I could not do. We're going to find another way. I'm not doing that.

Either one of my sons. I'm like, that's not for sale. But God who didn't spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. How will he not also along with him graciously give us all things? Why does he keep saying give? Because that's where the love. Giving is an act of love. And he gave us a son.

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? And you're like, well, where's he chosen us? In the giving of his son. Yes. It is God who justifies. Who is it that condemns? Christ Jesus who died. More than that, who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

So who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? Well, I got a question. When is all that happening? That's happening now while we have the Spirit. But God is working with us for the good.

As it is written, for your sake we face death all day long. We are considered to be sheep to be slaughtered. And then I love this verse. Knowing all things, we are more than conquerors, more than conquerors through him who loved us.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Well, we started this by talking about prayer, of course, for Jill and Zach. And you went to Matthew 6, 9, the Lord's Prayer, and you asked a question way back then. You said, how could they have missed it? But

The question is answered by if you have the wrong narrative because you think that the kingdom was something different that we get to rule and be in charge of. And to your point, Romans 8 is easy to miss if you're only looking for heaven as being the place that we hope we get to as opposed to the place we get to experience.

So, I mean, looking at it through a different prism and perspective. It is. And look, and take slow, you know, take this slow. Go study it on and on. But I will guarantee you this. Once you see it, it's hard to unsee it.

And look, it'll make you get up out of your chair or off your couch and run through a wall for the Almighty. You see, you do what Paul says. You're like, I need to do some ambassador work. If you don't believe it won't make you do that, take a look at our old friend Chad Wright, who was recently on a podcast to see what happens. All right. So keep, keep zagging your prayers. We'll have an update on that next time we get together. And eventually we will get back to John 8 on another show.

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