Ep 1103 | Jase Sees Phil’s Legacy Spark a Gospel Fire in His Own Son
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What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Jill, welcome to Unashamed. We always love having you on the podcast. Thank you. She's been a breath of fresh air. She doesn't realize what goes on here every day. And she just, she bumbles and fumbles her way into asking questions that I've been asking for years. And then all of a sudden it gets quiet because they think in that moment,

Jace was right. I can't tell you what it was about, but Jace and I have had a... I would say... Ongoing argument. Ongoing argument. I had no idea, by the way. And so Jill asked a question, and it has to do with the way we... some of the production stuff on the podcast. And Jill said...

Why don't y'all do it this way? It seemed to line up with what I've been saying for four years. But Jace is over there on his phone, completely obtuse. He's not engaged. He's whatever. He's doing whatever he's doing. I was looking up a Bible verse. He's looking up a Bible verse. Me and Jill are having a conversation.

in our own side conversation. And I kid you not, when he heard her say that, it was like the whole posture. He postures up, head comes up like a... I mean, the best way to describe it is if I was swimming in the ocean and I barely pricked my finger...

I mean, just a microscopic piece of blood started to come out of my hand, and the shark, the senses of the shark pick it up. And it's like, he was ready. I mean, you came to life. Yeah, it's the predator. It's the jealousy. I will break this tension with saying I have a deeper understanding. Every once in a while, you have to get an understanding of where we came from. Mm-hmm.

And so I had an embarrassing moment during the funeral because I was a bit in a fog, and we've talked about that. But your dad came up, and I hadn't been around your dad in a while. And so I guess I was vulnerable. And so I said, hey, how's it been going, you know? And he made some joke. Then I realized, okay, I forget that 90% of what he says is,

is a joke. Was it like a middle school joke? Yeah, it was junior high level. I don't even remember what it was. Yeah. And then I was like, how you been doing? And then the embarrassing moment, I said, did you ever marry that old gal that you were dating? Well, then in that moment, he looks to his left and then I realize that

This is his new wife. Oh, my word. And she kind of turned a little red. And I'm sure I turned a little red because I thought, gulp, that was a stupid thing. She was standing right next to me, and I didn't recognize her. All right.

What is that? Well, he then went into typical Gordon mode because he, like you said, I had a little blood of embarrassment coming out. So then he struck. So then I said, oh, so you said yes. I wonder why. And she...

was fixing to answer, but Gordon interrupted and said, well, she married me for my sexual prowess. Oh, wow. Wow. Which I looked back at her. Yeah, didn't need that visual. I looked up at her and she said, exactly. Oh, wow. Yeah. She says it. Oh, yeah. And she said, you know, he almost died on her honeymoon. That is true. That is true.

He had to get a pacemaker put in. Oh, yeah. I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he said, she's grown to love this pacemaker. Yeah. And I was like, okay, Gordon, that's enough. I can't. So then, but then deep down when I sat and reflected, I felt a lot more sympathy towards you. Yeah. So I thought, maybe I am too hard on her. It's hard. It was hard. Yeah, it was hard. Oh, this is a moment. I think that was just a moment. We, uh...

We had interesting fathers, both of us. Obviously, my dad's still with us, but I think about their relationship, too, was very interesting. Watching those two interact was quite the...

quite the pair as well. Well, I mean, it was a journey of like when you put a yuppie on a far extreme side, when you put a wilderness man on the far extreme of the other side and then Christ in the middle. Yeah. And it probably took 20 years for that to become one new humanity. Yeah. But it really, it really did. I,

They became, you know, sitting on the porch type of friends. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite exchanges, every time Gordon would come in, Dad would say, Dasher, you got to look about you.

You've got to look about it. And he says that in a way that's not really a compliment. No, it's not endearing. It's like, you're strange looking. And then Gordon would always say, you're telling me about the way someone looks? Like, you're making a comment about looks? Have you seen yourself? But it was just that. And then later. He'd say, we're in the airport. And me and you are walking to the airport. People look up and they say that. And they point to me and say, that guy's got to look about him. Right.

I remember Gordon came in one time and he said, huh. And Gordon was like, huh. Because Gordon didn't know why he was going, huh. But I mean, that's not usually how you greet someone you haven't seen in a while. And he said, what's, what's, huh?

And Phil said, I'm trying to figure out why a man would wear that shirt in the woods. It was a pink collared shirt. And he said, so you woke up this morning and thought, okay, I'm going down to see old Rob in the woods. I think I'm going to put this shirt on. He said, so that's why I went, huh. Yeah.

You can't make this up. That's hilarious. I just want to apologize for the interaction you had. That was, that was. Yeah, it was awkward. I was kind of embarrassed. Well, I wish I hadn't heard about it, to be honest with you. Well, and you know, look, you never know. Like, you know, Jan was so beloved to

to us. And so when I first heard that Gordon was dating somebody serious, you know, he called me. I mean, we were pretty tight, too. And just, you know, we had a serious conversation, which are rare with Gordo. But, you know, about it. And I said, well, Gordo, you know, I don't know. You know, I mean, my first thought is, I mean, if you need to get married, get married. But at the same time, you know, you're bringing another family into your life. I mean, there's a lot of

I was just very honest about it. Just like I would do with anybody that's like thinking about a second marriage late in life. And, um,

And then I met her and I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, she's got the perfect personality to work for Gordo, you know, because and not sure. And so I love her in a whole new way. So different from Janet. What I love about her the most is we can talk about Jan, which we do often, especially her influence on dad and, you know, and everything like that. And she she asked questions like she never seems like it makes her feel weird. No.

No, she's great. She's so good. Yeah, I love her. Well, Gordon's best quality is he's unoffendable. You can't offend him. And I feel like that's a safe place to be. I mean, even as embarrassing as what I did, he never missed a beat. And he dishes it out, but he can take it. Oh, yeah, he can take it. So that's a good quality. I mean, yeah, Reed came over, I guess the night before we got here,

They were already here, and apparently there was a gathering, a family gathering, I think at your house, Al. Well, the gathering is still going on. Well, I mean, there was one gathering. Well, since I've been gone, I've received so many texts of people that are at my house. It's such a bizarre thing. We're staying at Al's house right now, and it has been a revolving door of...

Well, our house is a revolving door. We come to Louisiana and the place we stay at in Louisiana is a revolving door. Yeah, we came to get away, but then it's like, but it's kind of fun because like Reed shows up this morning. I'm cooking breakfast and he walks in with the three kids. Well, see, last night I had a film moment because I thought, well,

Bill's not here anymore, and I guess I'm going to have to be the guy that just says things that needs to be said. Yeah. And I had one last night. What'd you say? Well, they were, you know, I was going to study for the podcast, and I thought, you

You can't study in this place. I mean, there's kids everywhere, right? And it's all hours of the night, and the compound is just a revolving door. And I just finally got quiet for one second during the LSU game, and I just said, look, don't take this the wrong way, but I got a question. So everybody turned around, including the kids. I said, when are y'all going to leave? Laughter

I mean, this is the most loving way possible. When are y'all leaving? Chase, you should have asked Shane and Shane if they know that country song, How Can I Miss You If You Never Leave? Shane East stayed with us last night, and it was just funny thinking about how many people. I'm like, he's getting to witness it. But then Gus, Jep's kid, comes over yesterday with –

With a couple of your grandkids out, y'all got a, y'all, you eat healthy, but your pantry is like. We call it the diabetes pantry. Oh, it's like the diabetes corner. It's like the Toys R Us for kids snack edition. And I mean, when I tell you, Jace.

Every kid in the neighborhood, it is a compound. Like, I mean, that part would bother me, probably having that many. I mean, you got to spend a fortune. I mean, they were coming there and they're just wiping out like the locusts. Yeah. I mean, about every 15, 20 minutes, a new kid's coming in. And some of them are so small. Some of these kids are so small that they literally have to climb up.

cabinet and they're just like it's like a free-for-all that's what this week has been it's been filled with I sent Cole he's like oh man you know he's engaged yeah I was like we're out of garbage bags because what happens is you got so many people the amount the volume of food being just gone it's crazy

So I know a lot of you guys out there may have thought, well, it wasn't supposed to get this bad. You were on top of your bills, and then all of a sudden inflation hits, grocery, gases, everything shot up. I was just here in Western Rail with you guys, and Al, I went to the...

The restaurant, I won't say the name of the restaurant, but the price of the dinner that I always got went from $10.99 when I was here to now $18.99. It's all high, Zach. It's all high. It's all high. Prices are up 26% from just a year ago. That's 26%. That's not your fault. But if you've fallen into debt, I have some good news for you. We've got a smarter, faster, easier way to get out of debt.

It's called Done With Debt. Yeah, I can totally relate to this because Lisa and I, you know, we're a period of our lives. We really struggle with debt, credit card debt through the roof. And so I wish I had known about these guys. They're not like a lot of other debt relief companies. They don't push loans or bankruptcy on you.

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You don't think about little things like going through, you know, a 30 bag. Yeah. Garbage. 30 gallon bag. Yeah. We're just going through them.

Run out of places to put the garbage. That's another thing. I'm hauling garbage around the back of my truck. Truck loads. Yeah. Truck loads. So I send Cole, I figured, you know, he's a grown man. I was like, go buy some garbage bags. He comes back, you know, because he's making it on his own, you know. He buys the cheapest box.

You're like, nah. I didn't realize that. He puts it in the garbage. Well, then they fill the garbage. By the time I get up in the morning, it's ready to take out again. I recently grabbed that thing, and it was a disposable garbage bag. It didn't even make it out of the box. When I pulled it up, it just went everywhere, just garbage in every direction. And so I said, nope.

I looked around. I looked at them little bags he bought. I could just rip them by hand. And I took off to the store. I went and bought some quality garbage bags. Missy's like, where you been? I was like, I sent our grown man to go. He hadn't figured it out yet. There are certain things you can't cheat on. I'm pretty cheap. Garbage bags is one of them. There's some things you can't do generic on.

Yeah. Jill, I will tell you this. Well, it's funny you say that because our first fight, although we're not going to talk about our fight. Don't bring it up in this one. But I do remember. Tell us, Jill. Tell us about your first fight. Our first marital fight. I was 20 years old when we got married. He was 23, was in the grocery store. And you've got to keep in mind, I had dreamed about this moment. I wanted to be a wife my whole life. I feel like I was just ready. I couldn't wait.

And so going grocery shopping. This is foundational. It's foundational. And I never lived by myself until we got married. So I didn't, you know. Which means she never had a budget. I had a dorm room. No budgets. We're not there yet.

And so I was so excited. We're married. We've got our grocery cart. We're just going down the aisle. Ooh, Doritos. I got a bag of Doritos. Put it in there. He took the bag of Doritos, put it back on the shelf, and he got the fake Doritos. Oh, man. All their fake Doritos? Fake Doritos? Sam's Choice. Sam's Choice. Like the off-brand. Oh.

I overlooked that. You then realized that this marriage is going to be difficult. Well, not yet. Not yet. I'm still trying to be sweet. I would have taken it right there. Still trying to be sweet, Jill. You know, I have a, you know.

And I'm like, okay, I'm just dismissive wife. We'll get the fake Doritos. So I get a couple more items. Daisy sour cream. Sour cream's important. Get the Daisy sour cream, put it in the grocery. He takes the Daisy sour cream out, puts it back on the shelf and gets the Sam's choice or Daisy sour cream. And

And that was it. The daisy sour cream was with them. She's like, we're not like it was the daisy sour. I learned what her idol was. Can I speed up this story? Yeah. She was right. I left. I left the cart. I just said, okay. And I just hightailed it.

In my high heels, out of that grocery store. Because I was also chastising her. I was like, let me tell you how this works in the real world. But at the time, I didn't have any diplomacy. You learn diplomacy later in marriage. So I'm like, I'm going to get my way by, I'm going to just marginalize her. And so I just like, let me tell you something. You went the I'm the boss. It's more like, let me tell you something, how this works. Your daddy's not running the show anymore.

You don't have daddy's credit card. Yeah, this is my phone. I mean, like, I'm working hard. You know what's fascinating about this story is that was also one of our first fights. But I was in your row. I was, and she was

She was good. But she ran the money, though, didn't she? Well, she was like, we can't. We don't have any money. Yeah. And I was like. You're buying name brand product. Yeah. So my approach was a little different. I was just like, let me tell you how this is going to work. Because then I went the Zach role. Let me tell you how this is going to work. We will save money on all items of life except one, food. Yeah.

Because I said where I come from, we live to eat. Yeah. So we're not skimping. I mean, this is the last wall of defense for our integrity as human beings. Well, I mean, I will say, Jill, one, because we are a daisy. We only do daisy sour cream now.

It's all the one we do. Well, from a marriage perspective, the reason both of you as couples and families have managed and done well is because one of you kind of had those tendencies. I was thinking about when y'all were describing that Lisa and I, neither one had those tendencies. So we just built a mountain of debt and ate whatever we wanted to. You need somebody like saying, you know, maybe we need to like watch out for our P's and Q's and our pennies.

So in a marriage perspective, it's good to have that balance. But yeah, you grow through. It's always been fun at your house though, Al. That's true. I know it. Our house is fun. There's no doubt about that. Which I don't know if... So I wanted to talk about the show too because... So they ran old episodes all day. Yeah.

And it looked like to me just from watching it, they kind of centered on the kids because it's kind of a next generation show. And so I have to admit, I mean, we have friends over and I had said to record, I was just going to watch it later. But all our friends are like, are we watching the show? And I was like, yeah, of course. But so I turn it on and we watched about three old episodes. And there was one on there, Jace, that Reed was in with long hair. And I didn't even remember that.

That episode, like you're teaching him how to, I don't know, like do his music and stuff. But I just found myself like lost in the whole thing. And of course, you know, dad's so central and everything. And so I was kind of just fighting emotions. And then the new show came out that was really good.

Loved it. Loved the kickoff, which is kind of, it's just a great transition to me having the opening scene with Jace and Jep and Cy and Willie. I just, I loved it. I thought it was, as a fan, you know, because it's kind of as a fan watching it. But what was y'all's take? I didn't see it, but I sent my representatives, Reed and Brighton, they went to the premiere party. But that was their take. They said they did a tribute to,

with phil at the end so i thought did you see that part al yes i yeah i had a house full of people so i was trying to not lose it i give you the backstory on that i don't know if they revealed it but uh you know phil was in decline then and but but willie was kind of seeing the uh

you know, the tea leaves here that Phil was just really struggling. And, uh, but he's like, I want to, I want to give, cause he came to me and asked, he said, I want to give, I want to give Phil a speech about the future of duck commander. Do you think he'll like be with me? Cause I spent more time in the past few days. And I said, no, he's, he's not, you know, he just wasn't doing real good. And I said, but, uh,

I think Phil is understanding more than people think. I said, so if you give the speech, I think he will give you a response one way or another. And so basically he did. And just the cameras came in behind Willie, and I think he was oblivious to all that. So Willie gave the speech, and then Phil's response, that's the one little scene they showed. And that's all they filmed. He gave a response.

And I don't know if I want to say it, but I guess since it premiered, you know, it's out there. I didn't want to ruin the thing. Yeah, no, it was thumbs up. He gave him a thumbs up, which is, yeah, Phil would, which we grew to love those thumbs up during this process because as much as you didn't think he was with you, he would give you a thumbs up. Yeah.

Yeah, I had seen the original cut, but that wasn't in there. The one I saw, that wasn't in there. And so I had not seen that footage. And so we're sitting there watching it. Because it's Doug Dynasty. It's funny.

has that vibe to it. But man, when I saw that, our whole table was just like, whoa. Yeah, Reid said everybody kind of choked up. They even included a scene before that where, you know, Corey did an interview bite about, you

you know, how it affected Willie and, you know, just, it was, it was a serious moment, which the show is mostly lighthearted like it was, but, you know, so I, I immediately was touched when they did that. And then I,

I kind of forgotten because I was hoping they would do something, maybe have some kind of something with dad. And then when they did, I had forgotten. And then it caught me off guard. It was like, oh, wow, that was really special to me. It started for me just a little bit before that, because Sadie ends the show with a prayer. And, you know, Phil always ended the show with a prayer of that dynasty. And so there was like this moment of, yeah,

Well, one, realizing, okay, he's physically not here anymore. Yeah. And so the tears started to come, but then the realization of the generations that he is passing down on to, and the tears started to come. And then they showed that scene, and I almost ugly cried. I mean, I literally, they threw some tissues across the table. I just, it just was, it was very, it was beautiful tears,

And it was honoring. And it was, I don't know, I thought they did a great job. Well, the grandkids, I mean, I look at you and I'm like, we got to spend a lot of time with Reed and Brighton this week. And I'm like, I told him, I said, if you had asked me which of all the grandkids has the least chance of turning out to be an incredible man, I mean, I was skeptical on Reed. I was like, I don't know how this is going to turn out. Jill is on the set today, and she has...

I'm giving my sister a budget to what, Jill? Help our backyard. Needs help. Landscape the backyard. Landscape it. Yes. It's that time of year, Al. How's your landscaping at your new house looking? Well, it's going really well. And, of course, our good friends at Fast Growing Trees are making it all possible. The women have to be happy, happy, happy. That's right. Well, Fast Growing Trees is what they are. They're the largest online nursery in the U.S. with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers.

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I look at this man, I'm like, this guy, I mean, I'm so, I got to tell you, Jace, and we've spent some time with Reed and Brighton over the last few years, and I'm telling you, man, that guy, he's a good man. And Brighton is an amazing young lady. I just think of the, that's why if you listen and you're like, man, my kids are whatever. I mean, I would just say, you know, that faithful witness, you tend to have to, well, you'll back up one day and you'll be like, okay,

All that time was worth it. I mean, because he just turned out to be a fine man. Very proud of him. And they are so on fire for the Lord. Yeah. This was a really good catalyst. I mean, they were already on fire for the Lord, but it's just like...

It's really on fire now. Yeah. Well, and it's a leadership thing, too. You know, Reed is the oldest grandson with mom and dad. And Phyllis' son is a couple of months older. So he's sort of like me in our role that I was in our family.

And but, you know, it takes a while before you really step into that role as a leader. And you just you don't know when it happens, but it just does. And so that's happened in the last few years with Reed.

And it just came to life during these last couple of weeks and the trying stuff. And it's just amazing because they were down here and we just had some really rich conversations. And then he immediately came down there to be with and got in the bed with mom. And we talked about this when he was on the thing. It's just such a touching thing. And one of the things about the show I was going to mention too, I don't know if you guys picked up on this, but earlier in the show, they had mom pray. Mm-hmm.

which I thought was really neat because as far as I know, she never prayed on the original show, but I felt like, and then when that Sadie prayer at the end, I felt like that was another one of those things. And I felt that way about dad, but I also felt that way about mom and dad. I thought, you know, look at, look at their, their patronage and their legacy and,

There was an episode that aired a couple before the actual show. And Jason, if you remember this one, it was it was Cy and dad babysitting the girls. It was Jep's girls and Mia was in there and Bella. And, you know, they just they were little bitty, you know, girls. I know they probably weren't like in their teens.

elementary for seven, five years old. And just watching the NRA, I laughed out loud and dad sprays them with a water hose and they're squealing. And I just, you know, then not only watching the show, but just watching everybody these last few weeks, uh,

In the process of their love and down on their knees next to dad holding his hand or next to mom now, you know, providing comfort. And it's just I don't know, it's just a beautiful, special thing to watch and to see your kids thrive and, you know, basically take stock in their own life. It's incredible. And then, you know, as I mentioned before, the worship, your kids, Zach and Jill, they're

you know, just the talent they have and the, they're willing to, to use it, uh, for God. It's just a very encouraging thing. Yeah. What's funny is our week, you know, I was kind of saying when y'all leave, but the number one thing we've done this week is study the Bible. They've asked me more questions. I believe we've had just hours and hours, uh, of Bible study just on an excitement level, just,

And a lot of singing and cause you know, when Reed's there and Mia's there and Missy's there, they, they're just continually, they, they just break out in the song over something. The pianist play the next thing, you know, it's just this beautiful harmony, you know, and everybody else is just sitting there like, okay, let's go. I'm not sure where we're going, but let's go. It's just very, uh, uh, encouraging. So, but you, Al, you said that story about the kids also, um,

It brought back a lot of memories, that one scene. That's one of my favorite scenes in Duck Dynasty is when Phil built the playhouse for him or whatever. But he grabs that chainsaw because when I'm on the window, but as a child, that's the way he used to do. Maybe he would go cut down the tree, you know, but a couple times it was like too big. And next thing you know, the chainsaw is coming in the house. And Kay's like, oh, don't saw down my.

You know, whatever. And I mean, it just was so scary because you're like, man has a chainsaw in the house right now. Well, our dad was good at a lot of things, but he was not a builder or anything mechanical. He could do none of that well. And so it was usually when he came home, he went, we went all the way to new Orleans and picked up all the equipment for duck commander and

off a boat, off a ship. And it was just this big trailer load. This stuff weighed thousands and thousands of pounds. We get back to the place we were going to put it as a, huh? And like for the first time it hit him, none of that's going through the door. Yeah. And he had not even thought that through. And so he, guess what he did? He takes a chainsaw and he cuts out the side of the building. Well, after he had it went,

the side of the building winched to his little Jeep. And he's sawing with someone winching simultaneously. I mean, it was a Duck Dynasty episode 30 years before Duck Dynasty. It was. He just cuts a hole in the house.

Oh, yes. He cut the whole house. The house to the shop. The house. But it's a house. I mean, yes. It was a house that he turned into a shop and he just ripped the whole side of it off. And like when it all just crashed into nothing, you would think, well, that didn't work because he destroyed it. And he's like, nah.

We can get it in there. I was excited. So he had to come along in the winch, and he put all the equipment in there. And look, he nails all those boards back up. But then there's a gap the length of the chainsaw all the way around that stayed there for the entire time that we had the shop. Man.

So stuff's coming in and bugs and snakes and everything else. You know what's the most funny part of that whole story is then one of the piece of boards that used to be the inside of the wall. Yeah. He got it and it wasn't even a square. It was just a piece of scrap. Now there's trash.

And he painted on it. He wouldn't let anybody see, and he painted something. And then he took a hammer and he tacked it up. And it wasn't even straight. It was crooked. You remember that? Sideways. Yeah, sideways. And it said, Duck Commander Worldwide. It did. Right above the door. That was out above the door. That's how it started. And he had like 14 customers and was way in debt. Way in debt. And had just destroyed the building that...

That was used to house it all. That's how it started. Well, and you know, we've, we tell the story about Gordon, you know, be happy with his middle school humor, but in some ways, dad always had like this, I guess you'd call it this need for approval for what he was doing. And so that's why he did that. And then he told the story. I think it's in one of the books of when he came in and told granny and Paul that

Me and Jace were playing dominoes with Granny Paul, and he came in and said, I'm fixing this duck call business is going to take off, and I'm going to make a million dollars. Or make a million duck calls. I can't remember exactly what he said. No, he said, I'm going to make a million dollars. A million dollars. And everybody looked at him, and nobody said a word, and Paul just played and said, 10.

like on the board and dad just walks away you know just with his shoulders no affirmation whatsoever it was like we acknowledged the statement and then it was like my grandpa was like let's get back to the game well give me 10 while he's gonna make a million dollars which it was not even 10 dollars it was just

Ten points. Ten. Yeah, ten on the board. But it just, you know, he knew he had a vision for what was going to happen. That's why we included so much of that in the funeral.

And our what our comments, as well as the stuff we show, was because it meant so much to him that what happened with an idea. And he just it mattered, you know. And so he always he's always just someone say to you is I had a Ph.D. in marketing, which, of course, is funny that that they say that. But he did have a way.

just whether it was to turn a phrase or tell something, and just he drew people in. And so I think that was a big – obviously, Kingdom wound up being great, but even just from a business perspective, he just had a way to do that. Well, that's why it was funny when I got back home from the funeral. Missy's like, I had never heard that story about the first sermon he had preached. I mean, I've been married to this woman for 35 years, and I was like –

Chase, I don't think I'd ever heard that story. I said, I don't think I've ever shared that. And I said, but the only reason I remember it is because a week later I came to the Lord. Yeah. Because I was nervous for him because he was studying. I could tell he was nervous. It's really the first time I've ever seen him nervous. And so if you haven't, if this is the first time you're listening, basically I was so shocked because when he got up, I'd seen him study all week.

And he just said, I got some bad news and I got some good news. That was his first line. But that was the same thing he said to every person that he ever studied with. They'd walk in or they would just bumble off the street or he'd see them fishing or their motors broke down and he'd bring them in and, you know, all from a meal. And he would be like, what's your story?

And so he would, he had a way of getting deep down into the souls of people, sharing their innermost secrets, usually from the sinful persuasion. You know, this really is an interesting time for business.

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know what's stuck and what's costing you and how to pivot fast. It's one system, full control, tame the chaos with NetSuite. We spent a lot of time lately talking about the early days of Doug Commander and NetSuite would have been a godsend for our business, no doubt about it. Yeah, and as a business owner, I'm here to tell you when you have real-time data, it is...

a lot easier to make important decisions and the business just runs a lot more smooth and NetSuite allows for that. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, Three Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com slash phil. That's netsuite.com slash phil. And then he would say, well, I got some bad news and I got some good news. So when he started that sermon, I thought,

Well, what was he preparing for? Because the whole sermon was the gospel presentation that he had given hundreds of times to people on the couch and over the mail. Yeah, I heard it. So it wasn't the actual, because you'd heard the word. It was the testimony of the consistency. You're like, wait a second. That's what made me think for the first time, because you know what it did? I didn't say this in my speech or the first time on the podcast when we shared about it. What he did for me was,

was he connected what was going on at a church building to actual life? Because I didn't like church. You know, he had started going to church. I wasn't listening. They had some old preacher, you know, that had the...

What do you call it? The preacher tone? Yeah. It's like when he started talking, I thought, it's impossible. He wouldn't say, he would say baptized. Well, it just, there was the lingo, you know, it was kind of an old kind of crusty church and people around there. And my dad didn't seem, you know, I mean, we sang, I'm sure the singing, I mean, it was 30, 40 people out there in the middle of nowhere.

But my dad was living for the Lord outside the church building. And I just always thought, what are we doing here? Because it just wasn't that exciting.

I mean, they didn't have a kid's class. You're just kind of in there. And I was bewildered by it. It didn't seem real or authentic in any way. But what I was seeing, that did seem authentic. I thought, these people are crying on the couch. He keeps baptizing people in the river. And it was just hard for me, as a 14-year-old, to make that connection. So that's when I thought for the first time,

I need to study my Bible, you know, because he's talking the same story. I was like, I just want to read this for myself. But it was after that sermon that I thought, oh, there's a connection. That's the same God, but it didn't because it seemed so. That's quite the realization, though. You came out of it just for context. I mean, and one of the reasons why I know this context so well is because

I did all the interviews for the movie, The Blind. And so I got to sit with, were they all y'all? Yeah. And it was kind of like a therapeutic in a way. It was painful. I think you mentioned this at some point, Reese, I heard you say. Everything starts to blend together. I don't know if we said it on the podcast or private conversation or at the funeral, but I know you said something about how difficult that was to tell that story. And even like the, just to go back in that, but like when I sat down with you particularly, um,

I was like, I left your house, and I thought, whew, I didn't realize what you had personally been through. Yeah, and I think, you know, Al and I have documented this many times. You know, you respond differently. He was older. You know, I hid myself in self-righteousness. That was really my coping, which I know a lot of people don't struggle with that at an early age, but that was...

I mean, I'm sure it came from the evil one, but that was just, I just thought I'm going to be better than you. I'm bad. You know, I don't like these people. But at first it was skepticism. You were like, well, skepticism. What I learned is you can, I don't even think that was a premeditated. It just goes with being self-righteous. You just tend to be a skeptic.

And so I was skeptical of the Bible because I thought deep down this man can never change. He was too bad, even though, because it was bumpy, you know, it just wasn't an immediate. I mean, he still had moments where he, I thought, well, back to living like the devil. He'd get mad and frustrated on the river, you know, eat the wooden fish, you know, just mad. And I thought, well, what happened to all this Jesus stuff? You know, it just, you tend to look at life through those eyes when you're into that. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I didn't want to revisit that. But because a lot of trauma moments, you know, as a kid, I mean, I didn't go to a counselor or anything, but I have the Holy Spirit. And it's just I didn't want I wasn't ready to relive those things. So I told you that story about when I visited him.

Of course, they had it in the movie like it was, I think, me and Al. Well, we changed it a little bit. Yeah, it was just me. Yeah, and it was Tommy. And it was Tommy. But man, I thought I wanted to see him. And when I saw him, I thought, no, this guy has completely lost his mind. You described that scene. That's why I knew we had to get it in there because I was like, that was...

Well, it's hard to, you know, it wasn't like you were not telling the truth. It's just, it was based on a true story. It's hard to capture what I saw. Yeah. Yeah. Man was barefoot, had a pile of dead carcasses there living without electricity, just drinking whiskey, you know, and it was just a big pile of whiskey bottles and a bunch of dead carcasses. And he was just a wild, crazy eyed man.

human that had been away from society for months. And boy, I thought, I don't want anything to do with this guy for the rest of my life. Well, you make that decision. That's a powerful decision. How old were you when that happened? You were seven or eight, I guess. It was in 75, so you were six, actually. Yeah, six years old. Wow, that's pretty impressionable. You'll never forget it, though, because it's just like he came out and I thought...

It just looked like he had some kind of demon. Well, he did. How old were you when you came to Christ? I was 14. That's what I'm saying. He came to Christ, so seven years after... I mean, I'm six or seven, whatever the... I'm not sure what the exact years are, but about that long was his first sermon. Yeah, that's about right. I just think it took him about that long to give his first... I love that, though, because so many times we think...

Someone comes to the Lord and they're going to have everything figured out. They should know all the rules. It wasn't like that. And it's like, no, like grace. Like, man, I...

Well, it's a growth. These verses that never made sense to me early in my Christian life now do. Like that one in Galatians 4 where it says, until Christ is formed in you. Like, well, there's a process here. Or that wouldn't be in there. Or like Ephesians 4 when it says the church, till we all grow up in Christ. There's a process that we're all in. That's why I finally realized I'm not going to put my faith in religious groups of people.

Because they're all in that process. So you're going to see. That's why I was like, some of these people, they missed it, even though we're in a building. It was funny, Jace. It's always about perspective. So when you came to Christ is when I turned away from Christ, when I was 14 years old and began just this dark wandering. And it would be 18 years old when I would come back.

come back home and literally come back to Christ. And what was interesting is Lisa and I got married not too long after that. And so you guys were already at this little church. Now I'm brand new Christian and had been in the world and had been living like dad had lived and worse to me, from my perspective.

And so when I came into this group of people, the crusty people you're talking about, it was, even though it was like, I mean, all the years I would serve, I would never do things the way that we're done, but I loved it. I loved the people because for the first time it was like I had, I was free. And so, which shows you about the power of the gospel because dad, I mean, I knew the gospel. I knew it backwards and forwards, but my heart wasn't ready to cross over and embrace. Hmm.

what the gospel meant until finally I was broken to a place where then I was ready. And so I was leading singing out this little place. And of course it was funny because you don't really lead singing on a situation like that. It was two sisters that would take over and you just hope that the right one got it. Because if the one that couldn't sing took it, we were going right off the cliff. But it was my experience. It was really hard. We all went back to Whitesbury Road.

It was just the best thing we ever did. But it was hard for Lisa and I because we had found community in that little place. And even though it wasn't very dynamic, it was just all about being in a place where finally we had newness. And so you and I both talked about that in the last podcast. We talked about that. But our perspectives on how we came to Christ are so different. And yet it was still wrapped up in the same man with the same message.

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Well, it's funny because when they decided to leave, I was like, what took you so long? Let's go somewhere with some fire. And then really it was a catalyst to me growing because when they moved to WFR and all of a sudden here's other teenagers who are on fire for the Lord. And I'm like, now that's when I felt like, okay. Because to me, I just was struggling with that. I thought, y'all are not living well.

In attitude, the thrilling nature of Jesus. I was thrilled by it, and so was Phil. And Phil was trying to get them fired up, but I was like, oh, these people are too far gone. Because you're immature, and you're wanting everybody to be thrilled by it. But that's why I'm thankful that I got to see God in not a church-building setting. I mean, Phil's story happened in the world.

And through him trying to be a better dad to me, you know, he's taking me hunting. And now I'm kind of tying the creation together.

with, you know, what the Bible's saying also. And I'm like, this is the God that we're following. Oh, he sent Jesus. But I was having these create, my moments really were in creation where I was thinking about God, which led me to studying the Bible. I love that. I think it's encouraging too, if you're listening and you're like, man, I don't know the Bible enough. How do I share my faith? Because we get that question a lot. How do we, man, I want to share my faith like you guys, but like, if you hear like your testimony,

It wasn't even what Phil had said. You had heard the gospel, the simple gospel. Oh, yeah. It was when it was connected. It didn't connect to me with a church building. Yeah. Which is funny that it was in the church building there that you heard...

Exactly. Oh, he's saying everything in here that he's saying out there. And it was like Phil, for you, was erasing what's called the secular-sacred divide. And Phil was like, no, it's all sacred. It's all his. This is my father's world. You know what it helped me really understand fundamentally that I think a lot of religious people can't get? What's that? Is that God uses people.

And he lives in people through his Holy Spirit, despite their baggage and struggles of keeping the old man away. It really helped me understand that. And I think it's the same problem with Jesus. I know we were supposed to be in John 8 today, but this has been a good preview of it, is that they were struggling that God could be a human. And I think we still see the same struggle today because we're like, oh, we're so bad. You know, God could never use us.

But, oh, he does. He makes us into new creations. We have the Holy Spirit and he uses us. But you have to realize that there's a messiness there.

That comes along with it because we are people and we are humans and we get it wrong, you know, as far as like from a theological standpoint. Yeah. I mean, why do you have to talk in a holy tone to tell me how good Jesus is? It just seems so embarrassing to me. I can't listen to anything God says. It's not authentic is what I thought.

because he'll walk out of the building and then he would talk right. Yeah, you're like, what's real? Which I think is like the passage that popped up in my mind was Revelation 12. It says, and they conquered him. That's how they conquered him. By the blood of the Lamb.

and by the word of their testimony. And I thought, man, what is the testimony? And the testimony is that, yeah, I'm not equipped. Yeah, I'm still... Well, right. It's like Acts 1 says the same thing. And I think I mentioned this before, because I heard a sermon by your buddy Tyson on this. And he did something really funny. Because, you know, here's Jesus. He's fixing to leave.

He provided all the proof, gave many convincing priests that he was alive. But then he's like, but what did he say? He said, I don't want you to leave because I have this, the spirit I'm going to pour out. I'm going to die.

give you power to do this. And then it says the same thing, and you will be my witnesses. It goes with that. Testimony, yeah. But he did something funny in it because he said, I think we read this like with a British accent.

It's like, you know, don't leave. You know, it's not time yet. And he's like, no, he was saying, I'm going to give you power to testify, you know, about me. Of course, he did the imitation, you know, better than I could. And you don't have to have all the right words because my spirit is going to dwell in you. Exactly. It's his power, not our power. You're fixing to take over the world. You're going to be menacing.

me in the world and there's going to be a bunch of you and it's going to be contagious. And so it, it, it's more of a movement type thing than we're in, you know, here we are setting up these little buildings and you're like, this is not, I think what, what he had in mind. No, the kingdom is in our midst. It's where you can see it and feel it when you're a monk, when you're among the kingdom, you know, you're among the kingdom because you can feel the spirit.

So that's why I always, when people have bad religious experiences, I'm just, because they happen because it's filled with messy, sinful people. And it's like who are maybe immature or have a detached view of God working in people. It's like they're not seeing their lives. And I'm like, you got to be patient here. This is the way he chose to do this. You're never going to find some perfect, you know.

group that you go in and say, oh, you know, they all have this baggage. But you walk in, you kind of know when you're in certain settings and you just feel an authentic move of the Spirit. You just feel the Holy Spirit is in the room. He's present. He's active in the ministry with you. There is a power that comes from that type of authenticity and sincerity. And I think the reason why it's authentic and sincere, which is our testimony, is

is not that we manufacture it, which was Paul's point. I didn't come to you with wise and persuasive words. Exactly. It's a demonstration of what? The Spirit's power. Exactly. That's the thing. Because I kept going back to Phil's lifetime. I was like, something happened.

You know, as bumpy as it was, it was like, it was a drastic, this, this is so drastic. It has to be super. I was looking for a text you sent me. I can't find out where it's at, but it was something I sent. And I forgot how you said it. I sent you a text when Phil passed and you had responded to something like,

I don't know. This is me paraphrasing. Oh, it's on. It was something like, like this has been a wake up call. This is, this is written. No, I said, I think I was struggling because what I didn't like, I mean, look, if you said this to me, don't get offended. But people came up and they were like, we're so sorry for your loss, you know, and, and,

I get it. They're trying to encourage me. But I thought, there's nothing lost here. Zero. Yeah. You know, I just. I want to read you this. You just said this perfect. Because I've gotten hundreds of texts and emails and stuff posted that's really been great for me. But this one described exactly how I was feeling. And you just said it. It's from one of our favorite people, Jay, being you both, Anna Tomlinson.

Just an amazing woman. But she always has a way. And she said, I'm praying for you and your family. We love you tremendously. Can't only imagine the whirlwind of emotions you felt over the last months, the past week. So grateful.

for the obedience of Jan and Bill and then Phil's, which changed the trajectory of your family, which then influenced the changed trajectory of y'all's marriage, which then changed the trajectory of ours. And that's a long story. Wow. I've thought about the different emotions of

felt after a loved one passes. But for Phil, the only emotion I keep thinking of is the emotion you would feel after watching someone you love cross the finish line of a marathon race. Such pride and excitement and celebration and well done. You know it wasn't always great. You know he got tired, but he never wavered. His eyes always on the finish line. And then she put in all caps and he has crossed it.

And, you know, I just captured the emotions I've been feeling because I just haven't been sad. I felt like the race was run so well, you know, and I'm excited about it. I remember the quote I told you because I said what it has been is a celebration of Phil's life and how God used him and a call to action. That's right, a call to action. Yeah, and I think that's what it is. And look, you brought up Reed, and I'll circle back to put a button on that.

That's what he's mostly said. He said, boy, people in Nashville have no idea when I head back. His response to when are y'all going to leave, which everybody thought, Jace, how could you say that? His response was, he said, the people have no idea what's in store for them when me and Brighton go back to Nashville. God.

And he said, through the gospel of Jesus. I mean, he just ignited the same fire that's been there. But he thought, okay, man down.

And people in the family need to stand up and carry the torch. It's been a next generation thing. When he said that, I said, when Reed said that, I said, now we're talking. Now we're talking. And that call extends to the Unashamed Nation. Absolutely. It's a call to action for the Unashamed Nation. You guys have been with us from the beginning. So we're ready to roll. Boots on the ground. It's taken us a while to get back into the groove.

understandably, I think. Yeah. But John 8 is a humdinger. And thank you, Unashamed Nation, for your patience and letting us have these conversations with you because it's good for us too. So we love you guys and we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast.

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