Ep 1106 | Phil & Jase Refused to Sing — Then One Conversation Changed Everything
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I am unashamed. What about you? I keep trying to tell him it's not where you are, where you're at, it's who you're with. But he can't get that in his head. He has a hard time with concepts. I've, uh...

I paved the way for him to see it that way, and then he comes back to me with what I've been telling him. Oh, you planted the seed of the idea? I planted the seed, and he tells me, hey, look what I figured out. Phil did that. I actually learned that from my wife, because I can say, hey, you want to take a trip? And she'll say, yeah, let's go. She doesn't care where we're going. I mean, I've proven that many times. That's who you're with. Yeah, she's like, if you want to go, I'm in, so...

I do that when I'm kind of, you know, need a little boost. Yeah. So if you're just tuning in, I think we're rolling right now. Are we rolling already? I see a thumbs up. We're rolling. We're rolling. So who we're with today is some great friends, old friends. Yeah, old friends. Shane and Shane. Come on. That's it. Let me help you. You have Shane E. Yeah. Shane E. Shane. That's the way I do it. Shane E. Shane. No, I have Shane E. And then you get to be Shane. Yeah.

There we go. So when I put our friendship to the test, so I'll start this with an embarrassing story. So Shane E. walked in. I looked right through him, literally right through him. And he came over here and started to introduce himself because he realized I did not recognize you. You didn't. But I didn't realize that you had lost a sack of corn and change. You

You have. You look good. Hey, you know what? For y'all that don't deer hunt, a bag of corn weighs 50 pounds. It does, unless you're shopping at Academy and it's 40 pounds. Is it? Yeah. Be careful, because you think, oh, $10 for a bag of corn. You think it's 50, but it's not. That's 40. That's tricky, dude.

They're tricky over there. Hey, Bass Pro Shop, bag of corn's 80 pounds. No, it's not. That's the kind of corn we're talking about today. That's the bag of corn we're talking about. He's never bought a bag of corn. No, I'm just talking about the kind of bag we're talking about. Oh, yeah. It's about an 80-pounder. About an 80-pounder. Is it 80-pounders? No, I lost about 60 pounds. Okay, well, that's about 80. It's...

But you look good. I hate I didn't recognize you because that was a little awkward. It was. I wish Al was here. Because I've heard Al has done the work. Al's a former version of himself. So I guess that's trending for y'all boys. Has he said he feels better? Oh, gosh, yeah. He looks better for sure. He does? Yeah. Yeah.

So is he eating sugar or what's he doing? Nope, he's doing a PhD weight loss. It's a whole plan. It's a whole thing. They give you the food. Yeah, it's no trickery. No trickery? No Ozempic? None of that. None of that. Just straight up. None of that. Straight up. Old-fashioned way. I mean, my dad used to say, which now, you know, you think about, I think, you know, when someone dies, it's like you think about them incredibly more than you had, even though.

People say, you're a lot like your dad, you know. But he used to just make everything simple. And I almost told this story in the funeral because everybody was telling funny stories with my brothers. But we didn't know what each other was going to say. Yeah, yeah. And so then I looked down. I had like four notes. And I was like, I don't have a funny story. And they're all telling funny stories. But I didn't tell it. But this is a funny story.

Well, my point is about weight loss. My dad was real blunt about it. And that's why he would nickname people based on their physical features. Which is dangerous. It was dangerous for everybody else. My dad doesn't care. He's like, I'm giving you the truth in love. And I know it was offensive to people because you're not used to hearing that kind of truth.

But, you know, you shouldn't call a woman, you know, thick legs. Yeah. But he did. And you're like, did she have thick legs? Yep. You know. Now, he shouldn't have done that. I'm not saying he should have done that. But anyway, the story I was going to tell is when, you know, we had an ice situation in duck season, and we don't get those very often.

And so I was out before daylight. You got to remember that's the key thing here, before daylight. And me and Jay made an ice hole because we were kind of in charge of where we're going to hunt. So my dad comes and he's got like six guys in his boat. And by ice hole, he means a hole that doesn't have ice in it. Yeah. A hole in the ice. Yeah, busted the ice with a motor and we went round and round and made an ice hole. So it's water.

And ice is, which they're a great situation because if ducks want to land. Yeah, the ducks have, they got to have a place to land. Yeah. Now they could light on the ice technically, but you just, they see other decoys. And so anyway, my dad comes there and we've told this story probably, you know, 500 episodes ago. But my dad, when he looked before daylight with a flashlight, he didn't like my ice hole.

because he started doing it. And I thought, what's he doing? He's like, what's he doing? I was like, he don't like it. He's either making it bigger or... So you got to remember, he had a bigger boat and a lot of men, and he was cutting tight circles because we're making a little bitty iso. What he didn't realize is that every time he turned the motor, water was leaking into the boat because he had so much weight and making tight circles. Well, then all of a sudden,

Even though it's dark, you see the outline of them. You just see the boat start going under the water. And it just started all this hollering. And Lyle, one of the cameramen, was just at the top of his lungs. No! Oh, Godwin was in there. I think Martin. That's dangerous. Well, I started saying, stand up, stand up. Over your waders, I'd say neck high.

So you're getting wet, the boat's going down. But what I found fascinating was in that moment of terror and people are just, and I was like, stand up. What I found fascinating was my dad said, too many honey buns,

Too many honey buns. Too many honey buns. Jason, what's he talking about? I said, he's talking about these boys are too fat. That's why he's singing. Too many honey buns. That's amazing. Did the whole thing sink? Everything sunk. And look, Phil and Si didn't move. Everybody else was scrambling. They just literally went down and then popped up.

So funny. And then Phil turned around and said, get out and help us. He told that to us. And Jay jumped in.

And Jay said, you coming? I said, nope. He said, somebody's got to live, boys, and tell the story. I ain't jumping in ice water when you can stand up. Yeah. It all worked out in the end there. It all worked out. Hey, speaking of honey buns, I was out in the woods a few weeks ago when I heard the story, and I was walking in this little shop,

And I saw something and I thought about you because the first time we were here, you said there was a treasure there.

that Phil would make, and it was like you guarded it, and you didn't know when you were going to get it. Really? Now I'm intrigued. Do you remember what you were talking about? I don't know what this riddle is. We had it. We had it. That weekend. A treasure? We had it. Hold on, that's a treasure? You were like, it's a treasure, and it gets distributed by Phil, and it's very special, and you let us in on a little family tradition. I think I know what it is. What is it? Mayhall Jelly? Mayhall Jelly. Yeah.

Okay, look at this. I brought some of these for you boys. Look at this. In a little remembrance of our first hangout. Did you make this yourself? No, I got it at this little shop that's right by our ranch. Well, see, that's a dangerous move. Because what if this is not like the treasure? What if it's not? But it could be. Yeah, get into it. Well, I'm just going to look. My dad, what he would do in this moment.

is you got to see if it passes the smell test. Okay. Let me see it. I'm going to give that 50-50. You're going to give it 50-50? 50-50. It has a chance.

It doesn't, to me, it doesn't have quite the tartness from the smell. It doesn't have the tartness because it's got to be tart. That's a light. Well, it depends on where they got their Mayhalls. And my dad, you know, so I'm saying the bar is pretty high. It's high. I agree. But receive the gift, though. We can receive the gift. You can receive the gift. Although I didn't get one. Oh, no, I got you one, baby. I got all you boys one. We'll try it. And if it doesn't meet Phil's standards, then we'll re-gift.

You can re-gift it. That's what you can do. That's what you can do. But I thought about it because I'd never heard of it. Yeah. Well, you know, it's a strange berry that grows. The trees grow in the bottom land of any kind of terrain. And they're just a wild tree and a wild berry, and they're like little tart apples. We've talked about them many times. But my dad, oh, yeah.

You know, it was a thing with them. So every year, I mean, my childhood memories, we'd all go get the berries. We'd all make the jam all day. And it was almost like excitement because you knew at the end of the day we would have homemade biscuits in that jail. Did the same thing every year. You want to get childhood?

Put that into your legacy with your kids. But you can't eat this without getting the 80-pound bag of corn as part of the deal. Yeah, that's the thing. That's why I was like, I don't know if I can give it to Al. Al won't eat it. Yeah, Al won't eat it right now. He put that down. Once you get in pretty decent shape, you know, and you realize I need to be, that's what I was really going to say. My dad used to say, eat less and do more.

He's like, people are paying thousands of dollars for diet plans. He's like, eat less and do more. That'll cover it. That'll cover it. You know, it's actually pretty profound, but that usually works. So if you're active, he's like, you always have room for treats then. So there you go. He was big into working out.

When people say I work out, they'd say, well, we work out. Side. Side. Side. Run chainsaws, run rip hair. Well, Shane got up this morning. He did his workout this morning. I did do a little workout this morning. You did. You did good. I made him breakfast. You weren't here. You just pulled in. Shane E was here. Shane was not here yet. You drove in from Dallas. Yeah. I figured it was some kind of divine intervention because, uh,

Yeah, we've had a, this week has been, how would you describe it? Intense. Whirlwind, intense, you know. And all our family, and mine, they're still here. Yeah. So there's no prep, there's no quiet time. I mean, my oldest son's got three kids, three, two, and one. Oh, dear.

So now every day I wake up and go find these kids' mom, and I just say, thank you, and can I pray for you today? Because I realize that, boy, this is the hardest job on the planet. But what I was going to say is it was kind of a fog in the funeral, but after I spoke, I was kind of nervous about it just because I was just the weight of everything. ♪

I switched to Pure Talk, guys, because I kept dropping my calls. Jace, you were hanging up on me. That's true. I was. You were. But you weren't the only one that I was dropping calls with, so I had to go back and do the research and ask all my friends, are y'all hanging up on me like my cousin, Jace? And they said, no, you're just dropping calls. They didn't realize you were unoffendable.

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This worship from our four, I'm calling them kids, but what is the age? It's 20 to 25? They're all over 20. Can we call them kids? I mean, I guess compared to us. Yeah, they're still children. But they sang, and you know, I just want to say in that moment, it was just so soothing to the soul. It was. For my soul. It was just like, yeah.

This is, you know, worship is just more powerful, I think, than we realize. Unfortunately, we have to have something really crazy happen and gut-wrenching and just, you know, emotional and reflective. And then all of a sudden, you're singing with these other people.

And I mean, something spiritual is happening. It's just seething. So that's why I wasn't shocked that y'all showed up. I was like, yeah. The timing of it was kind of perfect. The worshipers show up. Or as my dad would say, Jubal's descendants.

There's an obscure verse in Genesis 4 or 5 there where it's like people who played the harp and kind of sounds like gypsies. They went around in tents and it's like they were from the line of Jubal. So every time somebody who can sing or play an instrument shows up, my dad would say...

Jubal's descendants. That's what you guys. I've never heard that before. I know, but that's our new band name. I'll look it up. Jubal's descendants. You find Jubal's descendants so much better than Shane and Shane. Yeah, it is. But I did love it. Cause it was in that moment at Phil's funeral. I felt it too. It's like, there's a moment where, you know, we're, we're having our, we're, we're laughing, we're crying, we're celebration. We, you know, we're tearful. Um,

And then there was that cry. Like, there was a longing. I felt it. Like, man, I just want to, like, I want to sing. You know what I mean? I want to sing to our God and with each other. And you guys are doing that. So I'd love for our audience, everybody knows kind of who you guys are from your career as musicians, but

you guys are kind of moving into some different areas with the worship initiative. And I do want to talk, you guys give us a little overview of that, why you're doing what you're doing. Sure. As it relates to what Jace just said. And also maybe we'll talk about the Devo in a second, but what do you think that is? Why do we long for that? I mean, I think scripture, you know, it's kind of, you know, as musicians or people who sing, you know, vocationally,

There's not a lot in there where it's just like, but there are some very poignant things in Scripture that are very clarifying. And, you know, people might say, you know, I was singing and like the atmosphere in the room changed. You hear like words like that, which I don't, that's confusing to me, but like...

But like Colossians 3.16 says something amazing, and it's kind of a verse that we really cling to every day, actually. It says, And that line in the middle there, that if there is a way...

If there was a formula or a prescription to say, how could we as a human have the word of Christ dwell richly in me? What would I do?

what would I do? It would say that we would teach in it and admonish one another in all wisdom through singing. Yeah. I mean, there's something to it. And I mean, you see it all through scripture and especially like in the Old Testament with David and Saul and whatever. It's just like there was something about singing that the Lord has really set up and you can hop in there. Yeah. I mean, to your point, it's like there's something designed in us. Like you were saying, like I couldn't help

I just had, I mean, God's people sing. I actually sang my way into faith. That's how I came to know the Lord is, ♪ You came from heaven to earth to show the way ♪ ♪ From the earth to the, what, what, my debt, what ♪

That's how I heard, and that's not only heard, but my soul experienced what you're talking about. And so singing is, like Shane said, it's a grace. Our buddy John Piper says singing's not just a response to grace, it's actually a means of grace.

It's a biblical means of grace. There's a pathway there in Colossians 3.16 and Ephesians 5 that Shane says about, hey, if you want this to happen, just sing. Yeah. And it does hide the word in your heart. It's so funny as it relates to kind of the last couple weeks of our life. Yeah.

Because you guys, a lot of what y'all do is you sing the word. You do the songs. It's called plagiarism. It's called plagiarism, which is a brilliant move. Yeah, but it's the greatest book ever. It's a good book. And it's a big book. It's a big book. We got a lot of material here. And obviously, I love what you guys are doing.

For one reason, my kids were a part of the, you guys do the worship initiative. Like fellowship. A fellowship that Max and Layla got to be a part of. And that was such a rich experience for them. And really just the intentionality of sitting in the Word. Max was like, first couple weeks, he's like, well, what have y'all done? We've just been in the Word. Like, we hadn't written a song yet. But it was like shocking for him to like, no, we're going to sit in the Word. Yeah.

And then we're going to write. And what's interesting is kind of the way we all met. We met at an event several years ago. I didn't even know who you were. We were just talking. You were about to go. You guys were about to go on stage and perform. But we were like standing out there just talking about duck hunting or something. Yeah.

And we just kind of hit it off. And then you get up on stage. Oh, I didn't realize that this was the... Yeah. You thought I just worked there. Oh, yeah. I didn't know what you were doing. Yeah, I get that a lot. Which is great, you know, because I wasn't impressed. And so I think it was like just a good moment for us. And then we connected, became friends. But at that event, I don't know if it was that same one, but at that event, I don't know if you guys remember this, but you were singing Psalm 90. Oh, yeah. We remember. Yeah.

Teach us, Lord, the number of days. And while you guys were singing, um, and, uh, and a pretty intimate audience, I would say a hundred to 150 people, somebody dropped dead on the spot in the middle of singing a song. We were singing, teach us, Lord, the number of our days. And then, and then this guy passes away at the event. And, um, it just, I mean,

Obviously, that sat in me for a lot of different reasons, but that psalm came up a lot in your song. What exactly does that mean, teach us to number our names? So Psalm 90, Moses wrote Psalm 90, which is the oldest psalm.

Yeah. Al brought that up, or somebody did recently. Al brought it up. When? He brought it up on the podcast, and I didn't make the connection, but I had been sitting in that because it's like this sobering, like, teach me, Lord. Like, I'm a temporal being outside of eternity with you. It's like...

And so we're singing that. So I contemplate my mortality so that I may gain wisdom. Yeah, well, I mean, he says, what, you have 70 years, 80 years, but if you could read it, you might have. It makes a lot more sense after you read this. The context. The context. Well, right. Now I remember that's when he said that. He actually did that in the funeral.

Psalm 9. Yeah, that's where he said it. It was in the fear. Yeah. And yeah, so that makes more sense. But that psalm has sat with me with a lot of others too. As the deer panted for the water, so my soul longed for that. These are Psalm 51, creating me a clean heart, oh God. Because I sang these songs and these... And it just...

And just this repetition of singing the word, it just hid that word in my heart. And so then in a time of kind of grief and mourning,

I latched on to that Psalm 90 as a message of hope. And because that had set my heart. Now, granted, we had a pretty incredible experience that you're singing the song about mortality. And then a gentleman passed away. And by the way, I found out later from his daughter that that gentleman had always told his family, when I die, I want to die singing the word of God. I want to die praising the Lord. That was his prayer.

That was that man's prayer. I mean, it was wild. He went out singing Psalm 90, and he's probably got something to say about it, because what do you got to say? Well, you know, the lyric, funny enough, the lyric we sang as the moment happened was, soon our lives turn back to dust. And so it was a living parable of, hey, this is real for all of us. We don't know if we have tomorrow, but...

we have today. Lord, would you satisfy us with your love today? And it was powerful. I mean, you don't want that. Nobody wants that. But the Lord wanted to just show us in a real time the blessing it is to be able to call upon his name today. Yeah, if you get a chance, I mean, like we talk about Psalm 90 a lot, but it's just like,

the depravity and the brevity of life, you know? And what's crazy about Psalm 90 is Moses ends it with two prayers, you know, because he talks about the wrath of God and that we need to be shielded from the wrath of God. And he ends the Psalm with what?

Well, he says two things. Like Shane said, if you get a chance to read through Psalm 90, it's the most epic. It is epic. Like, you know, the oldest, maybe the oldest, at least one of the oldest songs that we know as humans. Because Moses wrote this thing. It's the only one that Moses wrote, only Psalm that Moses wrote. Kind of crazy. And he ends it with, "'How long, O Lord, until you come and have pity on us?'

Al, do you know what I learned from staying at your house for five days while you were gone? What's that? How wonderful a place I have? It was nice, but you have a drawer full of nothing but broken meat thermometers. I mean, it's like wires everywhere. What is the deal? It's a dedicated drawer to meat thermometers that don't work. And the problem is I would have thrown them all away, but I don't know which ones work and which ones don't.

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Do you know that God came and had pity on us? Yes, he did. And isn't that just like, this whole deal, I mean, for whatever, 16, 17, 18 verses of like, life is short and we are sinners and we deserve the wrath of God. How long, oh Lord, till you come and have pity on us? And he did.

He had pity on his children through his son, Jesus Christ. And he answered that prayer. And he saved us. Like all who call upon the name of Jesus are saved from their sin. And then he prays, would you satisfy us in the morning with your steadfast love? Yeah. And that's the course of the song that we sing. And so would you save us forever? And would you save us today in the morning?

and help us not forget that your love is what satisfies us. Which is, that's been kind of the mantra of our podcast. So Jason and I have been talking about this a lot, like that the gospel is more expansive than just Christ saved me from my sin. He also saved me to him, which is the satisfaction that we're talking about, that we're satisfied in him and our desires are changed and we begin to want him. And then he satisfies that. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. Mm.

The problem is I don't hunger and thirst for righteousness in my sinful flesh. But as the Holy Spirit conforms me into the image of the Son, then I do begin to thirst for the things of Him, which I can actually be satisfied in, which is beautiful. But yeah, probably one of my favorite moments at the funeral was that last song. I think it was the last song we sang, Because He Lives. Oh, yeah. Well, Phil loved that song. And to give you the backstory about Phil...

I remember him when he came to Christ. Of course, you know, as a kid. But, you know, something he would say later. He came to Christ and, you know, they sing a song.

And, of course, he starts meeting with the brothers, as he calls it. He would never say go to church because Phil, for some odd reason, figured that out quicker than most people, is that you are the church. You're the representative of Christ, which I think is why he lived just as much for the Lord outside the building. He's like, well, I go to the building. I'm resting. But what he said was when they first sang as a congregation,

He said, I opened my mouth, and the words literally would not come out of my mouth. And he said it was embarrassing to me because his perspective, he just lived like the devil out in the world. And he was thrilled about Christ, but he was like, this is a very vulnerable thing. The singing part. Yeah. He's like, I don't know how to sing.

When he thought singing, he thought jive. Queen. Singing along. Creed is Clearwater Revival. Whatever. He liked to dance. And so he just said it was a slow transformational process for him. He said, I would open my mouth, nothing would come out. He said, no, I would get teared up just listening. It's like the most beautiful thing. But it was a very...

It was a very difficult thing. I just always found that fascinating. He was like, you know, and so, you know, when I came to Christ later, I kind of shared that story in the funeral because I heard my dad's first sermon at a church building, which he wasn't like they paid him. They just asked him, hey, you want to preach? And so this was seven years after he came to the Lord's little country church.

And what I shared in the funeral is what moved me so much is I thought he was like, what's he going to come up with? And he just shared the same thing he shared with people when they came into the living room, you know, at the house. Because he was doing that constantly. Everybody that showed up, he figured if they showed up, they must be lost.

Because he lives out in the middle of nowhere. Y'all been there. Yeah. And so he would share Jesus. I mean, y'all are like, what y'all think? I don't know. We're getting out of here alive. From the FedEx driver to the EPS. If you showed up, he said, you know, what do you think about Jesus? Or what's your story? That's usually how he started. They're like, well, I'm dropping off a packet. Well, I know this, but, you know, what I'm in on is Jesus.

It's good stuff. You know, what are you in on? That's just how it happened. He did it every day. But he did the same speech, you know, through the story of Jesus, kind of after, you know, the bad news and the good news, whatever you name it. But I just thought when I heard that, it moved me because I was like,

This is a movement. It's a declaration of Jesus. So when I come around, I had the same problem. I was like, well, I'm in now. But you didn't want to sing. Well, the words wouldn't come out. So the story I'm telling you about Phil saying that is I went to Phil and I was like, you know, I opened my mouth and I couldn't sing. He said, I did the same thing.

So I was telling you this story, how I came to understand. He's like, I just couldn't. I was like, yeah, I don't know what it is. I think there's something, I'm using the word vulnerable now. We weren't saying that word. It was something kind of embarrassing to us to like try to sing. Yeah, it is very intimate. Yeah, I think it's a worldly view of it. And so I never really pursued it because I thought, well, I can't sing. But then when I met my wife, she,

you know, just as a potential, I see this woman and somebody said, you know, I think she kind of likes you or whatever. And, you know, so I started checking her out, which was a lie. They, she didn't say that, but she, she was trying to match make it. So we both were under the idea that we both liked each other from the same person. They, they literally, they literally put us together. And, uh, so like on our second date, uh,

uh she was singing she's like come hear me sing oh okay so i showed up and everybody else is wearing like suits and ties and i i didn't have a suit and tie it's like the furthest from that camphor i think i had a ball you know i've been playing ball and i was like what in the world and she was singing in a different language you know it was like one of these choir everybody yeah i was like what in the world

But she sang a little part, and I didn't know what she said. But I was like, I need to have a front row seat. I just remember thinking, this woman can sing. And, of course, then the more I got around her at church, I was like, yeah. It was like a big draw to me. And so now I've seen God use worship so much.

through her even even with my parents you know my dad in the moments of uh before he died you know her and me and my daughter they just turned into acapella tandem concerts for my dad and uh yeah you would think he was oblivious he'd go a couple days without any kind of communication and one night

Mia just went in there. She is crying. She's like, I just feel like I need to sing. God, you know, I just feel God wants me to sing. I said, go sing. And she walked in there and she started singing, you know, and Phil, he reached that hand out of the bed, you know. He's looking at his hand. She grabbed his hand. He's like squeezing. I thought, well, he's back, you know. Three songs. Very powerful. They hang on to the songs. My mom was that way. She hung on to the songs up to the end.

The songs we sing, which I love. So I think a lot of people are like, maybe like Jace. And it is an intimate thing, which is why I love what you guys are doing with this Diva thing you just launched. Yeah. Because you can kind of get into a rhythm of this. I've thought what you are. I want you guys to talk about it a little bit, but I think it's brilliant.

And very much needed in the church right now because we're in a daily rhythm of reading the Word. I mean, we do that. Jason and I, we read the Word every day. I mean, even if we didn't want to, we'd have to for this podcast. But we do that as a rhythm of life.

But you guys have started something new now that's a rhythm really of why we sing. So what is, it's called the Devo, right? Because I want our audience to shake it up. Because Jace is actually going to be, Jill and I are going to be on one. Yeah, you're going to be on it. You're going to sing on the Devo. Jace is going to make an appearance. Are you going to sing? I'm actually going to sing one song. We just talked about it before we started this. So there is one song that I can sing.

And we're going to... So if you want to hear Jay sing, you're going to have to sign up. And you can unsign up the next day, but it's probably worth it because you might not hear it again. Tell us what you did. Hey, the Devo's free. It's free. It's absolutely free. And I've been on this for a couple months. Yeah, a long time. Yeah.

So it's great. I listen to it. Not every morning because sometimes I'm in a place where I can't, but I catch up. But it's about, what, 10 to 15 minutes in the morning. You sign up. You get the text. You get a text every morning around 7, 15. You hit the link, and then it brings you into the Devo. Yeah, but it just appears on your phone. I get it like at about 7 o'clock in the morning. It just shows up. Yeah.

You can click on it. Yeah, it's good. So, yeah, we do that. And it's just like the daily rhythms of, we feel like there's just something, there's something to, like Shane said earlier, it's just like, it's a means of grace for us. I mean, it's a gift to sing. And we tell this story, and we'll talk a little bit more. I'll just tell you, just to kind of, I want to camp out on what you were saying, like singing's not for me. Yeah. And we've been doing this for a few months, and

we've got a little community of guys that I know that are like parents of other students that my kids go to school with. My daughter had a program and we're at this, we're at this, our little ghetto school program. And I walk in and this guy pulls me aside and he's like, hey, can I talk to you for a second? And I said, sure. Yeah, what's up, man? And he pulls me to the side and he's like, man, I've been

I've been doing that daily Devo, you know, and I've been going to the church with this guy for a really long time. And he's been going to the same church for almost 20 years. He said, man, I've been doing it. And man, I have a horrible voice. I'm embarrassed by my voice, but I've been getting by myself and just doing this Devo. And man, he starts to get teared up. And he's just like, I just didn't think singing was for me.

You know, he's like, I go to church and I see people closing their eyes or really into it. And I just sit there and listen. And I like the words, but like, I just didn't think it was something that the Lord had for me. And he said, but I've been getting by myself and it's changing my life. Oh, that's good. You know, it's changing his life. Because singing is for everybody. It's for everybody. Jace, you got to experience some of my children, he said, with Missy this week. Yeah. I want to apologize for the...

No need for apology. You're reminding me of my childhood. Yeah, the locusts, they showed up like locusts in the Senate on Jace's pool and house. But I do care about my kids, and I want to provide the best for them. We all do. We're raising them up, hopefully, to love the Lord and to be productive citizens. It's important that you protect your family's future. And one of the ways that I do that is with life insurance. Fabric by Gerber Life is a term life insurance program.

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M-E-E-T fabric.com slash unashamed. Policies issued by Western Southern Life Insurance Company. Not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. Everybody has a voice. I was headed toward that transformation because now Flight Missy's like, can you hold it down just a little bit?

In the house. And, yeah, I think once you, and even, you know, at the funeral, I mean, I was singing loud. Oh, it was loud in there. Notes were optional. Yeah, that's right. It didn't matter. I didn't care in the moment. It was just so, it was so deafening. Yeah. Just everyone, you know, I don't know if it was 300 or 400 people in that room, but it was, it

It was so loud. It was deafening. It was, yeah, it was powerful. But I think that's the thing that way we miss out on that. And I did, I mean, your journey is similar to mine. I mean, it's kind of interesting because I'll sing, we'll go as far as you want to go with it now in my emotional expression of singing to the Lord. But

But yeah, I was embarrassed, I think, to even visually get excited and have this manifestation of song in my early walk with Christ. Look, I want to interrupt you just to say...

I realized at some point that I think I was more embarrassed for the way I viewed God up until I surrendered to him. Yeah. Therefore, I was having trouble singing this in an intimate way, you know. And I think that's part of it. It's like my dad kind of said the same thing. Like we were acting like we didn't want to sing. But the bottom line is there was no excuse for the way we were operating. No, you got to do it. You know, and I was like –

And so now we're to think we're cool and I'm not going to be vulnerable and seeing, you know, but what I think wins, what, what gives you the victory in that is really realizing what God has done for you. I,

I love that. And it's like, you don't care? You'll shout it out from the mountain top. Which is powerful to think about because our whole kind of aura around this family and a lot of people listen to this podcast are, I mean, there's a lot of men's men, man's men. Yeah. Like very masculine country boys. Yeah. But there's nothing more powerful than to see

Someone like a Phil Robertson just lost in worship or even a congenital. That is a powerful thing to see that kind of submission. And I think it is our view of God. When we start to see the sovereignty and the bigness and just how big this God is and that we all come before this God.

holy being and we get to praise him, which is the, because I talked about hiding the word in my heart, which is one aspect of song and why we sing. But the main reason why we sing is because the heart longs to worship him. And this is a language that God has given us. It's, it's, you go to the end of the book.

And we see where it all ends up. Yeah. And so it's kind of the point. Oh, I agree. You know what I mean? Well, I think you're going to worship something in life, and there's a song about that. But I really think that's true. You are in the way you operate. And singing, I think, is a special gift. It's one of the few things where, and this is another thing I got from my dad, it's one of the few things that when you're singing from the heart, you're never sinning.

Because you're distracted in a good way. You know what I mean? Yeah. When you're singing, you're not thinking about whatever. I mean, you're actively singing. And Phil said that. He said, it's become a safe place for me. So we helped each other out, get over the embarrassment of that, and realize it was kind of a reflection of our own embarrassment. But I thought, that's a good thing. He's like, it's impossible. When you're singing...

From the heart and thinking about the words, you're never sinning. You're never, your mind is not on something that it shouldn't be. So you guys have done this. I mean, I think this is like a, I would really encourage our audience, by the way, to go sign up for this because I think if you, like you guys are, this is a way you can learn

to sing in the work. But you guys sing a lot of different songs. But you said it was free, didn't you? It's free. So what is like... Zach, you don't have to talk to somebody into this. Here's what I found fascinating about it. Y'all do this every day, but y'all can sing so well that it's just... It's like me. If somebody's like, oh, so you like to sing now. Well, yeah, but if I want to inspire you, I'm going to send my son. Yeah. No, I'm serious. He's part of the network here. Because when he starts singing...

It just does something to you. There's people from the tribe of Jubal, which was Genesis 4.21. Did you find it? 4.21, those who are skilled with the pipe and the stringed instruments.

So Bill was right. It's where we get the word jubilee, jubile. They come from jubilee. Oh, wow. We're learning some Bible here today. We're getting it. So, yeah, I wanted to say that because it's just, I think it's cool that y'all are doing this every day, which I realize when you start doing something every day, it becomes a bit of a grind.

Like this podcast or whatever it is. But I think y'all just have a really good sound together no matter what you do. Because there's other, y'all bring lives. Yeah, we got it. Yeah, y'all start singing. It's fascinating. Our kids are starting to jump in. Because I know you don't have a whole lot of time to like make the, you're just bam. It's raw. I mean, we sit around a table and we sing. Well, there's been a couple times you're like, oh, we missed a note or something. And I was like, huh.

But I love that The fact that I didn't Well I didn't notice Yeah but I mean It's like This isn't like A highly produced This is not very intimate It's just like Because I've sat on a few of these Oh you sing from the heart It's awesome Like Shane told me The other day He's like Did you listen to yourself yesterday And I said Yeah I listened to it He's like That was pretty rough

That dude's made for high harmony, not low harmony. He's like, dude, you missed it. But there's just something powerful about you singing good days and bad days that brings us together. You know, it's different than just having your Apple iTunes or Spotify on in the background. It's different. Yeah. We're doing something different.

We're like, we're coming and setting aside a time to... It's like a Devo. Yeah. That's what I would call it. To like get after the Lord. And we open the scriptures and we remember things and we experience things because of the gift of God's word and singing. Yeah. And it's special. It's special. I agree. And it helps, I think, in the day because it's just like, you know, we...

In our little school, they say this all the time, but I think it's very profound. It's just like we wake up in the morning and we read the word and we hide it in our heart, like you're saying, and it really does furnish the mind.

It really like puts things in, in the mind that are, that are on the forefront. And if you've kind of got that reputation, you know, you say, Oh, you get that song that's stuck in your head. And it's like, if you want to get something stuck in your head and you want to like put a piece of furniture, it's going to be sitting in there and you're remembering all, all day. It's just like, Jesus loves me. Jesus is real.

Like, I mean, things like Psalm 90, like, teach us, O Lord, a number of our days that we may to get a heart of wisdom. And it's just like, you've got that in your mind. And it's just like, you're doing that and that you get that daily rhythm of that. And it just helps you bring to mind the things that he said, the things that he says you are. And it's very helpful. It's been helpful for me because we do it. I mean, I do it every day. And it's life-changing. And so it's just like, whatever it is that you're

that you're whatever, let's say, let's say trouble could be on the way. Um, and you have an enemy that's like assaulting you every day and you're going to have opportunities to, to walk in the ways of righteousness. And like, if you're furnishing your mind with the truth of God, it's, it's, it is how we arm ourself. Yeah. And so it's just like, I just say, arm yourself.

with the gifts and the tools that the Lord has given you to fight the good fight. You know? It's like when you wake up, you want to remember stuff because we're so forgetful. It's like I almost at one point wanted to call this remember because it's like the gift of singing. It's like we would...

Jesus the Nazarene. I stand amazed in the presence of Jesus. What else are you going to say in the morning when you wake up? Yeah. And man, it really does like completely change a day when you can remember why it is you're here and who it is you're after. It changes everything. And whose you are. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the diversity of it all, Miss and I did a

class one time it's like a seven week class who's the guy who's the most famous contemporary christian singer always forget his name chris tomlin chris tomlin thank you and i've met him several times and we're friends but in the moment he wrote a book he's my favorite guy he wrote a book with somebody called the holy roar and so we taught a class on that on that book

And it was kind of just given the church where we were at was a little bit conservative, and I'm kind of saying that funny. Not theologically, because he means like conservative and traditional. Pretty much in every way you could ever think of being conservative. Because I'm conservative. It's like, well, here's a better illustration. When I walked in for the first time, I wanted to say,

No, he came back from the dead. Really? He's alive. Yeah. Because you just looked around and thought, no, he actually, he rose. This is real. Yeah. So they just didn't look too happy. So we taught a class to try to give, and we used that book as like permission to get excited about

about Jesus in different ways. And so, because my wife and son, you know, my family's musical that I'm married into. And so, but I just think when you think of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, isn't that interesting how there's, that means different things. Yeah. Yeah.

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And some of the most powerful moments of my life as a teenager was out at camp singing, hearing other young people sing, because there's no place to hide when you're singing a cappella. No. And, you know, you're out there one night and somebody's just shared what they've been into or whatever, and you're gathered around a campfire and, you know, some people just start singing. And, I mean, it just gets...

And I've had just similar experiences with, you know, thousands of people and music and, you know, but it's, I just think I find it so fascinating. So it makes you realize it's more of the, who we're singing about and the implications, but there's different ways. I think that you see that in moments and it's just that, that's what seems so powerful to me about this.

You know, I met Shane for the first time. He was singing in another language. I was. Really? I was. What was singing? Sia hamba kukiniene krenkos. I still remember that because I sang it. He was singing in this... In Swahili. We are marching in the light of God. He was singing in this choir. I was. And he didn't... The choir was singing the words...

And well, he was moving his mouth, but he was moving it different ways than the choir. And we all walked up to him after like, you need a friend, man. Dude, you need some friends. And that was our first time. He just stood out like a black sheep. Dude, I had gotten saved on a Saturday night in a bar.

The next morning, I went to a church that was right by my apartment. Yeah. I walk up front because I grew up in the Baptist faith, so I figured you got to go down and sign a card to get saved. Yeah. You know, you got to sign on the dotted line. You got to sign that contract, man. You got to sign that contract. So I was waiting. I didn't even know what he talked about. I just knew it was my time to go sign the card. So I walk down front, and I do my thing, and the pastor was like, we got a college group across the way.

walk over there and go meet this guy. This is A&M? This is A&M, yeah, it's Texas A&M. So I walk across the street. It's like a parking lot. So I walk over there and I walk in and I was like, I know all these jokers in here. They all were at the same party as I was at. So I walked back. I walked back over and the pastor, they hadn't started the second service yet. And I said, hey man, like if that's what this is, I'm out. Like I know all those people in there. And he's like, well, what do you do?

You know, this is all real quick. And I said, well, I've been singing in this band. He's like, Monty. And Monty's the choir director. He's like, Monty, you put this boy in your choir? And Monty's like, yeah, can you be here at five o'clock? And I said, okay, I'll be here at five. So that was one Sunday. The next Sunday, I had gone to rehearsal on Sunday night. And then I went to a thing on Wednesday night.

And then Sunday, I'm singing at church, like, in a robe. Oh, you jumped right in. I was in, dude. You literally just went from the... But you didn't know the words of the song. I went from the bar to singing a song in Swahili. Yeah, they put you in the show choir, though. They put me in the show choir. You were in, like, the 10-people choir. Like, there's the massive choir, but then there's the 10-people choir.

And so he's so exposed down there just smiling and not having any idea. I mean, dude, I was so green. I mean, it was a good thing he was in Squahili because you were singing Greek. I was so green. They put me in this choir. Speaking in tongues down there. You needed a Devo. I needed a Devo to learn it. Him and his group of buddies came down like afterward. They felt sorry for me. They was like, man, you need some friends. So you really saw him and you felt compassion. You had compassion on him. Well, I had already met him because, funny enough,

Right before that moment where he got saved in that bar, I borrowed his guitar to play my first ever thing. In front of people. In front of people because my guitar didn't plug in and I had no business singing, but my roommates talked me into it. So I borrowed this guy named Shane's guitar.

and played this concert. And a month later, I dropped out of school, and that's what I did. How many years ago was this? 28. Yeah, 97. Yeah, that was...

before the whole kind of CCM and all that. That wasn't really a thing back then. Not really. Back in the old days. CCM was a thing. It was a thing, but it wasn't really worship. The worship part wasn't. It was like Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith were kind of happening. DC Talk. It was like, I mean, there wasn't really options like there are now. I mean, I was in college when all that happened.

No, the guys that were doing worship was this kind of like choir and then keyboard guys. Well, look, here's the deal. If you guys want, we really want to encourage you all to check this out. We're going to put the way to access the Devo in our show notes. Okay, that's great. You want to tell everybody real quick, what's the quickest way for someone to download this? Yeah, you can text. Should I just say the number? Yeah, what's your phone number? Yeah. You going to text Shane? No.

Is this the equivalent of Phil giving his address on national television? This might be. So, I mean, if you want to get this thing, all you do is pretty simple. You ready for this? I'm ready. You text the word Devo, D-E-V-O. So just get on your thing like you're texting your friend to the number 682-

318-3835. So just up there in the top box, 682-318-3835. Just text the word DEVO, D-E-V-O. It's like two steps and you're in. You're in. And then you'll get a text in the morning. How much does it cost? It costs nada. Zero. It's free. It's free money. It costs zero. I mean...

Yeah, for free. For free. And if you hate it, just text stop. But do it for a while. Give yourself a week. Sometimes you got to warm yourself up. That's right.

Yeah, but hopefully you can do it. So maybe should we go out singing? Do we have time to go out singing? Oh, yeah, I think we need to do something. So we've been in what they call the orthodoxy. Yes. Let's get into the orthopraxy. You see what I'm saying? I know you guys are theologians in here. Get that cricket button out. You know what I'm saying? We're going to sing. What are you going to sing? So y'all sang this at the funeral, and you were telling me that Max sang it. Oh, Because He Lives. Because He Lives. One of my dad's favorite songs. One of your dad's favorite songs.

And so if you're at home and you're listening to this or in your car or whatever, just sing with us. The key is singing. So we'll give it a shot. I want y'all to jump in. You need it. And you know you can bring that third part. God sent his son. They called him Jesus. He came to love, heal and forgive.

He bled and died to buy my pardon. An empty grave is there to prove my Savior lived. Because He lives, I can face tomorrow. Because He lives, all fear is gone.

Because I know He holds the future And life is worth the living Just because He lives Then one day I'll cross the river I'll fight life's fire

No war with pain. And then as death gives way to victory, I'll see the lights of glory and I'll know he lived. Because he lived. Because he lived.

I can face tomorrow because He lives. All fear is gone.

Because I know He holds the future And life is worth the living just because He lives And life is worth the living just because He lives

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